But Shit will get very interesting if they draft an OT in two weeks. It would figure to set up a big camp battle at RT.
And if they don't? You seem to have hitched your wagon to them drafting an OT. Will you eat crow if they don't? Especially if Peat is there for the taking and the pass?
That competition at any position should be welcomed by us. If Pugh loses out to a guy not on the roster for the RT spot at this point I'll eat my hat. I've been wrong before.
(that said, in all honesty, I knew about the Pugh pick and gave it to you guys an hour before the draft so I'm a bit biased. And he's a Cuse guy. So...)
It's a confluence of factors: Beatty has been inconsistent, he'll be 32 when his contract is up, and the #9 pick might be the opportunity to draft his successor.
Perhaps Pugh is his successor and they'll draft a RT. We shall see.
It's a confluence of factors: Beatty has been inconsistent, he'll be 32 when his contract is up, and the #9 pick might be the opportunity to draft his successor.
Perhaps Pugh is his successor and they'll draft a RT. We shall see.
You see, this I can agree with. It's the moving him in to guard thing that I don't get. They would be better off taking a guard than drafting Pughs replacement and moving him to guard. He is not a guard in any way.
You are inferring a lot of intent on my part, inaccurately.
I've laid out some opinions, draft and personnel scenarios, and said repeatedly let the chips fall where they may. I've hitched my wagon to nothing, the Peat nugget was something heard in the background, I shared it here and endorsed the.possibility. I also stated I'd prefer a DE, all things being equal.
Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight.
Shock is absolutely right in that the reverence to JonC is disproportionate to how "correct" he is in football analysis. That being said it's a dumb point. The draft and player analysis is a crap shoot even for the best front offices, you don't earn respect and reverence by being right about players all the time.
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
You are inferring a lot of intent on my part, inaccurately.
I've laid out some opinions, draft and personnel scenarios, and said repeatedly let the chips fall where they may. I've hitched my wagon to nothing, the Peat nugget was something heard in the background, I shared it here and endorsed the.possibility. I also stated I'd prefer a DE, all things being equal.
Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight.
Get my facts straight? That's twice that you've come across as the exact opposite of what your backers are saying about you here.
You have been on record this entire offseason as having Peat as your number 1 pick. Nothing "background" about it. You've been saying all along that you want them to draft Peat and move Pugh inside. Sure, lately, since Peat has seemingly fallen a bit, you've started to sway to the DE. But then you say in this very thread that it will be very telling if they draft a OT. Well, yeah! Of course! And you will certainly take the credit for "calling it" if they do. So it's only right if you eat crow if they don't, right? Or is this a fail proof thing that you have going here? If they take a tackle, you're a genius. If they don't, well, you wanted a DE anyways!
You see, we can both be smart asses here. It's just that you have the reputable being so different...
Shock is absolutely right in that the reverence to JonC is disproportionate to how "correct" he is in football analysis. That being said it's a dumb point. The draft and player analysis is a crap shoot even for the best front offices, you don't earn respect and reverence by being right about players all the time.
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
You clearly don't know me. I have no interest in "gaining respect". I am a straight shooter. I call it as I see it. That upsets some folks. I'm fine with that. I've probably been here as long as you and am well aware of how this site works. Thanks for the advise though. I'll keep it in mind the next time I dare question a long time poster.
I've said Williams, Cooper etc were higher values imv, but in repeated mocks my belief was OT could be the most likely pick. Given my liking of Peat and hearing the Giants think very highly of him, it strengthened my stance he could be the pick. I also said Scherff and Flowers would be in the mix. Your recollections are incomplete.
piece of advice. Ignore the masses. This is still a boys club here.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
Shock is absolutely right in that the reverence to JonC is disproportionate to how "correct" he is in football analysis. That being said it's a dumb point. The draft and player analysis is a crap shoot even for the best front offices, you don't earn respect and reverence by being right about players all the time.
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
You clearly don't know me. I have no interest in "gaining respect". I am a straight shooter. I call it as I see it. That upsets some folks. I'm fine with that. I've probably been here as long as you and am well aware of how this site works. Thanks for the advise though. I'll keep it in mind the next time I dare question a long time poster.
Anyone that says that don't want respect is a liar. In fact i'd venture to say you are lashing out because you feel disrespected right now hence the need to point out to me that you have been here just as long as I have. And the phrase "you clearly don't know me" reads like that of a petulant child whose parents are telling them something they don't want to hear.
I like to think of myself as a bit of a maverick in my own right, nothing wrong with that. But you clearly don't understand the dynamics of respect if you are questioning if someone deserves it.
Well, you just about covered every scenario imaginable in that last post. Good call. we might take WR, OT, OG or DE. Way to go out on a limb.
And you are backtracking, not me. You have spent a great deal of time promoting Peat. In half the draft threads, you would simply type "Peat". You were all over his jock, which is fine, but don't deny it now. ive heard you're an honest man with great integrity.
piece of advice. Ignore the masses. This is still a boys club here.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
Yeah I know dep. I know. It's just sometimes I have to get things off my chest. It makes me feel better!
piece of advice. Ignore the masses. This is still a boys club here.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
BBS does not know his shit. I vaguely remember having a debate with him over Suh. He tried citing stats (for a fucking defensive tackle) on how Suh is not as good as people think. It's clear as day he doesn't actually watch the game, but just nut hugs stats.
The only reason why I remember this conversation is because I couldn't believe someone would just blatantly ignore how impactful a player is but just go on debating it as if there were a debate to begin with.
piece of advice. Ignore the masses. This is still a boys club here.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
BBS does not know his shit. I vaguely remember having a debate with him over Suh. He tried citing stats (for a fucking defensive tackle) on how Suh is not as good as people think. It's clear as day he doesn't actually watch the game, but just nut hugs stats.
The only reason why I remember this conversation is because I couldn't believe someone would just blatantly ignore how impactful a player is but just go on debating it as if there were a debate to begin with.
so he cant be wrong on something? I have had been in many convos with him, and he could hang with the best with them here. Just because he may have gotten something wrong, doesnt mean he doesnt know his shit.
and get back on track with the thread. Some really good insight on Pugh, Peat and improving the oline.
I see Pugh as a better LT than RT he has such a smooth glide and footwork. Not sure how he'd do as a guard, but if they drafted a better RT and Pugh is a better guard than what ever else they have, then move him there. I just don't see Beatty being able to move from LT. % best guys need to be on the field. I think that is why they like the versatility.
I don't follow his posts enough to give a definitive answer Â
But I do know that someone who watched Suh play 5 consecutive snaps could have held a better argument than him. Why waste time arguing over a player you clearly never watched play by play?
I'm inclined to believe he pulls shit out of his ass and argues for the sake of arguing.
you could not be more wrong about me if you tried. But that's cool. You're playing the reverse psychology thing. I get it.
You clearly do not know what reverse psychology means if that's what you are saying. I am using some psychological and philosophical principles to poke holes in your logic and you evidently cannot return serve because your logic is not strong. Not responding to my salient points and trying to deflect and run away with some pride is about all you can do at this point so not surprised that is the strategy you are pursuing.
I don't recall any of your specific points but from your tone i'd believe you have some football knowledge but don't confuse that with knowledge of interpersonal relations or you might just get burned again.
JonC is an excellent contributor here - one of the best Â
Whether you agree with his position or not, JonC is always thoughtful and argues his position in good faith. That goes for more than just football.
Shock, I suggest you take a step back for a little bit. I don't think you're at your best right now.
I know it's been a shit offseason, and we are all bored as hell. But for the love of God, does this place have to erupt over every little thing that isn't worded exactly how someone would like ?
Everyone just needs to chill. Same side guys, we are all Giants fans.
RE: JonC is an excellent contributor here - one of the best Â
Then we will have two guys who could play RT and G. Let them go at it and see what is the best lineup. The more flexibility we have the better. we wouldn't have to guess. If Pugh is a better RT then Scherff becomes a future all-pro guard, or visa versa.
We also need to take injuries to the O-line into account Â
1) The Giants are extraordinarily closed mouthed.
2) they spend energy on BBI and elsewhere to track down who leaks within their circle ( remember Eddie Dodd? And one or two others?)
3) the Giants "draft Board" is very likely not finished. Will not be. So any comments about their targets is news to Jerry and the Giants.
4) several media sources who follow the Giants and may have had closer sources in the past and may have them now or may have never had much real insights....have said Peat is one of the considerations. Truth.
5) often, but not always, we hear from all kinds of sources right before the draft.
6) that may have some relevance in a blue chip draft....it won't in a wide open red chip draft like this one.
7) Afterwards, we will never know anything but that the Giants are extraordinarily happy they got the greatest luck and breaks and upside with every pick. Their job is to motivate the players to sign fast and easy and get into camp. And to set up competition at camp. Informing us is a necessity and smart PR on the part of the scouting machine.
8) JonC is a long proven terrific person in person...and a very good poster who is the same on site as off. He passes on what he hears. He does not have to. What anyone not in the FO hears at this time...is not likely very sound. As such, I'd rather hear, say thank you, speculate because it's fun, but stay sceptical
9) attacks on posters are about the attacker.
10) I am sure Shock is equally a man of integrity and substance. I don't know him, but I am sure that is true. dep supports him...so we do have that to go on. Regardless, imho he is right in this aspect of what he posted...we don't know.
Ever notice at work that people totally convinced someone or something is surely this way or that? And they are not close to reality?
Us humans need certainty and explanations so much we cling to shreds in the face of the unknown.
JonC; I suspect your passing on a very real piece of information from a source who said what shred he heard is not being distinguished by your separate....personal opinion that Peat would be a pick with good upside. An opinion shared by tons of "experts" and tape to support it.
Imho...those are two different things. What has been heard. And separately what you think.
Personally, the Giants have so many needs and the composition of the draft so unfortunately filled with flawed and tweeter and scheme specific and position shifting players that it is a crap shoot. And all the teams around us are unpredictable and have tons of needs.
To be honest the Giants talent base and this draft can leave one depressed. There is no solid ground from which to make round one decisions at slot 9. Trust the giants scouting process and watch the crap shoot of a draft as it unfolds.
soap opera drama here than on the Hallmark Channel.
As far as Pugh, what's not to like? Solid, young lineman who works hard at his craft. He wants to battle it out to keep his position rather than roll over like a 2 dollar whore (Randy). Good for him.
PS...
John C might suck a little but he's no Thomas.
Also what part of "played with one arm" virtually the entire year don't some of you get? Do you really want to stick with this down year stuff? If so, let's try, "mostly due to an injured wing, he had a down year." It's like Beatty's "down year" due in the main to injury in 2013 which led to many "he's garbage, he's done" comments which a healthy 2014 belied..
Also what part of "played with one arm" virtually the entire year don't some of you get? Do you really want to stick with this down year stuff? If so, let's try, "mostly due to an injured wing, he had a down year." It's like Beatty's "down year" due in the main to injury in 2013 which led to many "he's garbage, he's done" comments which a healthy 2014 belied..
or it could mean that he is working his ass off because he doesn’t want another very inconsistent season like 2014
I haven't given up on Pugh staying at right tackle or being the future left tackle. The good news is that he's working hard and that can only mean good things for the Giants next year.
of Pugh, with more bulk, could affect the thinking of the braintrust regarding this draft. Using a premium pick, like this one at #9, on anything but BPA would be missing an opportunity, if it is used for need. Ol fine, but passing on a WR, DT, CB or any other position is a bad move.
And if they don't? You seem to have hitched your wagon to them drafting an OT. Will you eat crow if they don't? Especially if Peat is there for the taking and the pass?
I have no idea what you're referring to
(that said, in all honesty, I knew about the Pugh pick and gave it to you guys an hour before the draft so I'm a bit biased. And he's a Cuse guy. So...)
Perhaps Pugh is his successor and they'll draft a RT. We shall see.
I really like Scherff. And I've been somewhat vocal about that. Id have no problem with that pick. None at all.
Peat and Flowers are two guys I don't want at 9.
Collins is 1a for me.
But I'm really a BPA guy at 9. Other than The kid who can't stop smoking grass.
Perhaps Pugh is his successor and they'll draft a RT. We shall see.
You see, this I can agree with. It's the moving him in to guard thing that I don't get. They would be better off taking a guard than drafting Pughs replacement and moving him to guard. He is not a guard in any way.
I've laid out some opinions, draft and personnel scenarios, and said repeatedly let the chips fall where they may. I've hitched my wagon to nothing, the Peat nugget was something heard in the background, I shared it here and endorsed the.possibility. I also stated I'd prefer a DE, all things being equal.
Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight.
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
I've laid out some opinions, draft and personnel scenarios, and said repeatedly let the chips fall where they may. I've hitched my wagon to nothing, the Peat nugget was something heard in the background, I shared it here and endorsed the.possibility. I also stated I'd prefer a DE, all things being equal.
Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight.
Get my facts straight? That's twice that you've come across as the exact opposite of what your backers are saying about you here.
You have been on record this entire offseason as having Peat as your number 1 pick. Nothing "background" about it. You've been saying all along that you want them to draft Peat and move Pugh inside. Sure, lately, since Peat has seemingly fallen a bit, you've started to sway to the DE. But then you say in this very thread that it will be very telling if they draft a OT. Well, yeah! Of course! And you will certainly take the credit for "calling it" if they do. So it's only right if you eat crow if they don't, right? Or is this a fail proof thing that you have going here? If they take a tackle, you're a genius. If they don't, well, you wanted a DE anyways!
You see, we can both be smart asses here. It's just that you have the reputable being so different...
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
You clearly don't know me. I have no interest in "gaining respect". I am a straight shooter. I call it as I see it. That upsets some folks. I'm fine with that. I've probably been here as long as you and am well aware of how this site works. Thanks for the advise though. I'll keep it in mind the next time I dare question a long time poster.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
Quote:
Shock is absolutely right in that the reverence to JonC is disproportionate to how "correct" he is in football analysis. That being said it's a dumb point. The draft and player analysis is a crap shoot even for the best front offices, you don't earn respect and reverence by being right about players all the time.
You earn it by being thoughtful, logical and levelheaded. Someone you always want to chime in on a thread, not because they are correct all the time but because their opinion consistently adds to the discussion. JonC embodies these qualities and has been doing it for as long as i've been posting here. (10+ years with ~6 more lurking)
And Shock, helpful tip here. If you'd like to gain respect yourself, trying to take down a clearly valued member of a community is not a good way to do so.
You clearly don't know me. I have no interest in "gaining respect". I am a straight shooter. I call it as I see it. That upsets some folks. I'm fine with that. I've probably been here as long as you and am well aware of how this site works. Thanks for the advise though. I'll keep it in mind the next time I dare question a long time poster.
Anyone that says that don't want respect is a liar. In fact i'd venture to say you are lashing out because you feel disrespected right now hence the need to point out to me that you have been here just as long as I have. And the phrase "you clearly don't know me" reads like that of a petulant child whose parents are telling them something they don't want to hear.
I like to think of myself as a bit of a maverick in my own right, nothing wrong with that. But you clearly don't understand the dynamics of respect if you are questioning if someone deserves it.
Power can be bestowed.
Money passed down.
Respect is earned.
And you are backtracking, not me. You have spent a great deal of time promoting Peat. In half the draft threads, you would simply type "Peat". You were all over his jock, which is fine, but don't deny it now. ive heard you're an honest man with great integrity.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
Yeah I know dep. I know. It's just sometimes I have to get things off my chest. It makes me feel better!
Regardless, I'm quite comfortable in my own skin and with how I'm viewed.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
BBS does not know his shit. I vaguely remember having a debate with him over Suh. He tried citing stats (for a fucking defensive tackle) on how Suh is not as good as people think. It's clear as day he doesn't actually watch the game, but just nut hugs stats.
The only reason why I remember this conversation is because I couldn't believe someone would just blatantly ignore how impactful a player is but just go on debating it as if there were a debate to begin with.
Quote:
piece of advice. Ignore the masses. This is still a boys club here.
I know you know your shit. So do you. Dont worry about who think they are experts or insiders. I dont think anyone really is here other than hearing snipets here and there.
BBS does not know his shit. I vaguely remember having a debate with him over Suh. He tried citing stats (for a fucking defensive tackle) on how Suh is not as good as people think. It's clear as day he doesn't actually watch the game, but just nut hugs stats.
The only reason why I remember this conversation is because I couldn't believe someone would just blatantly ignore how impactful a player is but just go on debating it as if there were a debate to begin with.
so he cant be wrong on something? I have had been in many convos with him, and he could hang with the best with them here. Just because he may have gotten something wrong, doesnt mean he doesnt know his shit.
I see Pugh as a better LT than RT he has such a smooth glide and footwork. Not sure how he'd do as a guard, but if they drafted a better RT and Pugh is a better guard than what ever else they have, then move him there. I just don't see Beatty being able to move from LT. % best guys need to be on the field. I think that is why they like the versatility.
I'm inclined to believe he pulls shit out of his ass and argues for the sake of arguing.
You clearly do not know what reverse psychology means if that's what you are saying. I am using some psychological and philosophical principles to poke holes in your logic and you evidently cannot return serve because your logic is not strong. Not responding to my salient points and trying to deflect and run away with some pride is about all you can do at this point so not surprised that is the strategy you are pursuing.
I don't recall any of your specific points but from your tone i'd believe you have some football knowledge but don't confuse that with knowledge of interpersonal relations or you might just get burned again.
No need to pontificate about who's better. They're both important pieces to what makes BBI a shit load of fun.
That said. I love giraffes.
Lmao. I can't read so good.
Apologies.
Shock, I suggest you take a step back for a little bit. I don't think you're at your best right now.
Everyone just needs to chill. Same side guys, we are all Giants fans.
No need to pontificate about who's better. They're both important pieces to what makes BBI a shit load of fun.
That said. I love giraffes.
As much as anything else, JonC is a standup guy. Respectful of others and argues his opinions well without vitriol.
Having said that, he hella underestimated how good JJ Watt would have been for a 4-3....
And how about the cool portrait of your dad I found?
2) they spend energy on BBI and elsewhere to track down who leaks within their circle ( remember Eddie Dodd? And one or two others?)
3) the Giants "draft Board" is very likely not finished. Will not be. So any comments about their targets is news to Jerry and the Giants.
4) several media sources who follow the Giants and may have had closer sources in the past and may have them now or may have never had much real insights....have said Peat is one of the considerations. Truth.
5) often, but not always, we hear from all kinds of sources right before the draft.
6) that may have some relevance in a blue chip draft....it won't in a wide open red chip draft like this one.
7) Afterwards, we will never know anything but that the Giants are extraordinarily happy they got the greatest luck and breaks and upside with every pick. Their job is to motivate the players to sign fast and easy and get into camp. And to set up competition at camp. Informing us is a necessity and smart PR on the part of the scouting machine.
8) JonC is a long proven terrific person in person...and a very good poster who is the same on site as off. He passes on what he hears. He does not have to. What anyone not in the FO hears at this time...is not likely very sound. As such, I'd rather hear, say thank you, speculate because it's fun, but stay sceptical
9) attacks on posters are about the attacker.
10) I am sure Shock is equally a man of integrity and substance. I don't know him, but I am sure that is true. dep supports him...so we do have that to go on. Regardless, imho he is right in this aspect of what he posted...we don't know.
Ever notice at work that people totally convinced someone or something is surely this way or that? And they are not close to reality?
Us humans need certainty and explanations so much we cling to shreds in the face of the unknown.
Imho...those are two different things. What has been heard. And separately what you think.
Personally, the Giants have so many needs and the composition of the draft so unfortunately filled with flawed and tweeter and scheme specific and position shifting players that it is a crap shoot. And all the teams around us are unpredictable and have tons of needs.
To be honest the Giants talent base and this draft can leave one depressed. There is no solid ground from which to make round one decisions at slot 9. Trust the giants scouting process and watch the crap shoot of a draft as it unfolds.
As far as Pugh, what's not to like? Solid, young lineman who works hard at his craft. He wants to battle it out to keep his position rather than roll over like a 2 dollar whore (Randy). Good for him.
PS...
John C might suck a little but he's no Thomas.
My thought as well..
Also what part of "played with one arm" virtually the entire year don't some of you get? Do you really want to stick with this down year stuff? If so, let's try, "mostly due to an injured wing, he had a down year." It's like Beatty's "down year" due in the main to injury in 2013 which led to many "he's garbage, he's done" comments which a healthy 2014 belied..
Quote:
Could mean an intended move to the inside.
My thought as well..
Also what part of "played with one arm" virtually the entire year don't some of you get? Do you really want to stick with this down year stuff? If so, let's try, "mostly due to an injured wing, he had a down year." It's like Beatty's "down year" due in the main to injury in 2013 which led to many "he's garbage, he's done" comments which a healthy 2014 belied..
or it could mean that he is working his ass off because he doesn’t want another very inconsistent season like 2014
That was terrible..AND, she posed smiling
I haven't given up on Pugh staying at right tackle or being the future left tackle. The good news is that he's working hard and that can only mean good things for the Giants next year.