LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
a 340lb man if the 300lb man can knock the 340 lb guy in his ass? I've seen 190lb boxers knock the shit out of 230lb boxers. This thing about Pugh's size against "bigger men" makes me laugh. It's about strength and leverage not mass
In a huge way this year. That's one of the reasons I'm not worried about Oline in the 1st. I think we need a Guard. Can get one in the 2nd or 3rd between Marpet, Cann, Tomlinson, Kouandijo, Sambrailo, Tre Jackson.
Getting Schwartz back is a huge upgrade over Richburg playing a position he never played. Richburg moving back to the position we drafted him to play + getting rid of Walton. That's two upgrades on the Oline already. Add a healthy Pugh and we upgraded 3 positions. That will help Beatty even more. Not having to worry about an out of place rookie next to him. I think we have 4 very good pieces on the Oline. Add in a stud OG in the 2nd or 3rd & barring injury we have a solid Oline again. Even have a solid 6th lineman in John Jerry.
LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
at a charity event a few weeks ago. He was a super nice guy who spent a lot of time talking with my wife and me. I'm rooting for him twice as much now.
LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
Because he's smart about football as well as many other things. He gives spot on advice, has integrity and conducts himself as a gentleman.
size and strength matters. You used a boxing example, there are weight classes for a reason. Doesn't mean that size always wins.
Pugh was overpowered by a lot of DEs this past year, so I think it's fair to question moving him to a position where he'll face even larger and more powerful men.
I'm happy to hear that he's feeling healthy and has added more weight. I still have a good feeling about both Pugh and Richburg, although I'm a little more optimistic about Richburg.
You apparently have a relationship with him. I don't doubt any of what you said. I don't know him. But the respect he gets related to the info he gives is unbalanced, IMO. From what I've seen, he's no different than you or I. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his input, I just don't understand why posters seem to value his opinion more than others. Maybe there's a good reason, but yours, while valiant in defending an obvious acquaintance, did not explain to me what the reason is. I honestly don't know. Is he a scout? Former scout? I'm legitimately curious.
Shock, I've earned what is shown to me with sound, accurate football knowledge and an occasional scoop close to the team over many years here. My opinions are challenged and I respond as best I can.
Pugh can be a good RT, I just wouldn't make any decisions based on belief that he can't be upgraded. It's more about improving RT, and I think Pugh can upgrade LG.
You apparently have a relationship with him. I don't doubt any of what you said. I don't know him. But the respect he gets related to the info he gives is unbalanced, IMO. From what I've seen, he's no different than you or I. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his input, I just don't understand why posters seem to value his opinion more than others. Maybe there's a good reason, but yours, while valiant in defending an obvious acquaintance, did not explain to me what the reason is. I honestly don't know. Is he a scout? Former scout? I'm legitimately curious.
He can score hot Asian chicks, and he knows his scotch. He's like James Bond without the accent...or the license to kill...or the Aston Martin DB5...or the Walther PPK.
You sound a bit jealous, it's up to each individual to demonstrate their knowledge and earn respect. I played the game but I'm no expert or pro anything, I've simply demonstrated football knowledge.
You sound a bit jealous, it's up to each individual to demonstrate their knowledge and earn respect. I played the game but I'm no expert or pro anything, I've simply demonstrated football knowledge.
Nobody talks about Jones. I hear about what an inferior league that is, but if you dominated the iVY league as thoughly as he dominated Canadian football you'd be considered a prospect.
My optimism even extends to Jerry. I think he never had good coaching at Miami, I think he played next to Walton and a compromised Pugh. I actually expect this talented player to be better next year.
You sound a bit jealous, it's up to each individual to demonstrate their knowledge and earn respect. I played the game but I'm no expert or pro anything, I've simply demonstrated football knowledge.
Haha. Jealous? Wtf?
You just proved exactly what my suspicions were. You love the attention, and the fact that people on this site fawn over your opinions. you're no more qualified than anybody else, which is fine, but you try to act like you have some sort of credentials. And BBI eats it up. Bravo to you, I guess. But jealous? Quite the contrary my friend.
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JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
He's consistent in his outlook and statements, and he thinks the same way I do; therefore he's unimpeachable.
Reading the tea leaves, it seems clear the brass either is looking to upgrade RT or trying to motivate Pugh. B in ALB suspects it's the latter, I suspect they'd be happy to draft Peat or Flowers and kick Pugh inside.
When Beatty's time is up, Pugh might wind up back at RT unless they bankfill another prospect in the meantime.
it has more to do with personal relationships and hanging out at camp, rather than your football expertise, but hey, I'm sure I'll get lambasted for speaking up. It's all good though.
I've demonstrated something over 20 years, and eating up attention has nothing to do with it. I don't know what else to tell you, chief. Perhaps you need to elevate your performance.
has been riding shotgun on the Peat bandwagon does mean something to me. That's something that I take note of even if I'm not the biggest Peat guy.
I don't know how much of an insider he is, but it's clear Jon does get some sort of extra special info when it comes to the Giants. I don't think it's fair to attack him when your real problem seems to be the way some other posters treat him.
I'm still a La'el Collins > Peat guy though.
If he increases his strength and keeps his mobility I think he'll do a
fine job. I think he'd be a better OG than RT, and a better LT than RT. It will be interesting to see what type of offensive lineman we'll add in the draft. I suspect we'll see a 325+ pound RT prospect.
we don't really know how good/bad Pugh really is.....
In his rookie year, he played well for a first year guy.....but how well? In comparison to the shit show that was going on to the left of him, he probably looked better than he actually was.....
Last year, he was injured.....but when was he injured? It had to be before the first preseason game, because he looked bad from the first preseason game on....was there a change in how he was handled? Did he get more help his rookie year? Did they make him stand on his own island the second year?
And lets face it, what he has had playing to the left of him for two seasons, was nothing to write home about.....
So if Schwartz is the RG, an upgrade of what's been there the last two seasons, and Pugh is healthy, we finally will get to see what we have for a RT this season.....
In a huge way this year. That's one of the reasons I'm not worried about Oline in the 1st. I think we need a Guard. Can get one in the 2nd or 3rd between Marpet, Cann, Tomlinson, Kouandijo, Sambrailo, Tre Jackson.
I agree. I knew Pugh was playing injured. No way he regresses at RT with a year experience under his belt. If he didn't improve much that would be something else. I cringe when posters say, "kick Pugh inside". (He's never played inside.) F-that! Kick Pugh to LOT where he belongs.
If we pick an Oline at #9, that's a clear need pick and I'll be pissed off. They've done that a few times in the past (Ross, Wilson, Nicks). At #9 you get the best impact player BPA you can get. Grab your Oline/pass rushers in round 2, 3.
BPA's JPP & Beckham are some of the best offensive/defensive players on the team.
it has more to do with personal relationships and hanging out at camp, rather than your football expertise, but hey, I'm sure I'll get lambasted for speaking up. It's all good though.
Shock, I don't have a pic of JonC but here's portrait of his dad:
and he was also pretty damn good as a rookie before he was playing injured. That's why Jons insistence that Pugh should be upgraded is so mind boggling. If he truly had inside sources, he'd know how injured Pugh was last year. He has never played guard. Ever. He was a fantastic tackle at Syracuse.
I'm not saying he can't play guard, or that he can't excel. But he has taken much more abuse than he should from Giants fans.
Not that he needs me to defend him, but he clearly is knowledgeable. Doesn't act like a dick because of what he knows and acknowledges what he doesn't know. Comes off as a stand-up guy. That's why I respect his opinion.
as the Giants LOT in '16. You guys who would argue, well, we'll have to just wait & see. I know Mara says otherwise, but he also said the Giants offensive coaches held Jernigan back.
I'm one who posted Pugh was playing injured here last Fall
pedigree and culture out of Syracuse (those m'fuckers work!). No surprise that he's working his ass off. He's not a Guard. I question those who automatically slot him for the G spot. Especially when there is no replacement at RT. Seems an odd stance to take settling on moving him with nothing in the wings.
pedigree and culture out of Syracuse (those m'fuckers work!). No surprise that he's working his ass off. He's not a Guard. I question those who automatically slot him for the G spot. Especially when there is no replacement at RT. Seems an odd stance to take settling on moving him with nothing in the wings.
If they really see Pugh as the future LT, or a tackle period, is a big looming question.
Jon, very true. But I'm still a bit puzzled by most people's assumption that Beatty will be cut in a year or so. The guy is a competent LT; we can always restructure his contract and bring down the $9M cost for next year. It makes no sense to me to just let a competent (albeit less than all pro) LT go, to be replaced by Peat or anyone else. I'd rather keep Beatty and get a top RT, with Pugh moving inside. Seems like a better use of resources to me.
LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
Getting Schwartz back is a huge upgrade over Richburg playing a position he never played. Richburg moving back to the position we drafted him to play + getting rid of Walton. That's two upgrades on the Oline already. Add a healthy Pugh and we upgraded 3 positions. That will help Beatty even more. Not having to worry about an out of place rookie next to him. I think we have 4 very good pieces on the Oline. Add in a stud OG in the 2nd or 3rd & barring injury we have a solid Oline again. Even have a solid 6th lineman in John Jerry.
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LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
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In comment 12236604 JonC said:
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LG because you think he has the skill-set to be a Pro Bowler there? Or LG because you don't have any faith in his ability to be a RT?
I thought Pugh showed enough promise his rookie year that I'm not ready to write him off after a down soph season next to an awful RG. I think he still has a chance at RT. But I also have no idea how he can play at LG. He doesn't have a ton of power and you figure he'll run into bigger/stronger defenders as a guard.
JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
Because he's smart about football as well as many other things. He gives spot on advice, has integrity and conducts himself as a gentleman.
Pugh was overpowered by a lot of DEs this past year, so I think it's fair to question moving him to a position where he'll face even larger and more powerful men.
I'm happy to hear that he's feeling healthy and has added more weight. I still have a good feeling about both Pugh and Richburg, although I'm a little more optimistic about Richburg.
Maybe comparisons to a HOFer aren't fair.
Pugh can be a good RT, I just wouldn't make any decisions based on belief that he can't be upgraded. It's more about improving RT, and I think Pugh can upgrade LG.
He can score hot Asian chicks, and he knows his scotch. He's like James Bond without the accent...or the license to kill...or the Aston Martin DB5...or the Walther PPK.
See? He's humble, too.
My optimism even extends to Jerry. I think he never had good coaching at Miami, I think he played next to Walton and a compromised Pugh. I actually expect this talented player to be better next year.
Haha. Jealous? Wtf?
You just proved exactly what my suspicions were. You love the attention, and the fact that people on this site fawn over your opinions. you're no more qualified than anybody else, which is fine, but you try to act like you have some sort of credentials. And BBI eats it up. Bravo to you, I guess. But jealous? Quite the contrary my friend.
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JonC is an enigma. BBI seems to have a strange respect for him, but I'm having troubles pinpointing why. I mean, he's looked at like a scout here, but if you follow his posts, he comes off to me as just some dude throwing darts. maybe I'm being harsh on him or maybe you're all giving him too much credit? I don't know
He's consistent in his outlook and statements, and he thinks the same way I do; therefore he's unimpeachable.
When Beatty's time is up, Pugh might wind up back at RT unless they bankfill another prospect in the meantime.
I am looking forward to seeing him "looking good" on the field this fall.
I don't know how much of an insider he is, but it's clear Jon does get some sort of extra special info when it comes to the Giants. I don't think it's fair to attack him when your real problem seems to be the way some other posters treat him.
I'm still a La'el Collins > Peat guy though.
In his rookie year, he played well for a first year guy.....but how well? In comparison to the shit show that was going on to the left of him, he probably looked better than he actually was.....
Last year, he was injured.....but when was he injured? It had to be before the first preseason game, because he looked bad from the first preseason game on....was there a change in how he was handled? Did he get more help his rookie year? Did they make him stand on his own island the second year?
And lets face it, what he has had playing to the left of him for two seasons, was nothing to write home about.....
So if Schwartz is the RG, an upgrade of what's been there the last two seasons, and Pugh is healthy, we finally will get to see what we have for a RT this season.....
I agree. I knew Pugh was playing injured. No way he regresses at RT with a year experience under his belt. If he didn't improve much that would be something else. I cringe when posters say, "kick Pugh inside". (He's never played inside.) F-that! Kick Pugh to LOT where he belongs.
If we pick an Oline at #9, that's a clear need pick and I'll be pissed off. They've done that a few times in the past (Ross, Wilson, Nicks). At #9 you get the best impact player BPA you can get. Grab your Oline/pass rushers in round 2, 3.
BPA's JPP & Beckham are some of the best offensive/defensive players on the team.
Shock, I don't have a pic of JonC but here's portrait of his dad:
I'm not saying he can't play guard, or that he can't excel. But he has taken much more abuse than he should from Giants fans.
It could happen but not now.
It could happen but not now.
Thanks B.
Now, here is a dude that knows his shit.
Jon, very true. But I'm still a bit puzzled by most people's assumption that Beatty will be cut in a year or so. The guy is a competent LT; we can always restructure his contract and bring down the $9M cost for next year. It makes no sense to me to just let a competent (albeit less than all pro) LT go, to be replaced by Peat or anyone else. I'd rather keep Beatty and get a top RT, with Pugh moving inside. Seems like a better use of resources to me.