Opening round kicks off today @ 12:30 EST with Wiz vs. Raptors & the whole 'We The North'. Then it's Warriors vs. The Brow/Pelicans. Bulls-Bucks at 7:00, followed by the Texas showdown between Houston & Dallas.
I love the NBA playoffs. Two months of terrific basketball.
Bogut actually seems cool like you said, but he's a big dirty mofo. Could literally be called for illegal screens every single time he does it, he gets away with it like KG used to get away with it.
He has actually all but admitted doing that in interviews with innuendo.
Sports sure turns people into judgemental and hateful people. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I've heard Draymond Green speak and have read more about him than anyone here, and to assume he's an assholes strikes me as having an axe to grind. In Mook's case I can only guess he went to a school Mook hates, but Osi? C'mom man!
I just don't like Draymond. He is annoying as hell.
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Baxter Holmes
@BaxterHolmes
LeBron says he's almost to the point where he'd rather not even make the playoffs than lose in the Finals, which he's done four times. 26m
He was not great in game 6- he was not good in game 4- and they lost 4 games and won 2.
He was not the m v p
LeBron James Leads Both Teams - NBA Finals
PPG 35.8
APG 8.8
RPG 13.3
>>1st to lead in all categories in Finals history
LeBron James in the 2015 Finals.
G1: 44 p 8 r 6 a
G2: 39 p 16 r 11 a
G3: 40 p 12 r 8 a
G4: 20 p 12 r 8 a
G5: 40 p 12 r 8 a
G6: 32 p 18 r 9 a
I feel like you're looking for something to nitpick when stressing shooting percentage when the context is playing a top defensive team with no competent team around you.
he was the only player on his team allowed to touch the ball-
nit picking would be shooting 43% or something. shooting sub 40% is Iverson level. it may have been what was needed but the number is the number... its a horrible percentage.
the warriors played the game in a way for him to take a lot of shots... likely make a lot... but miss a lot too. that is what happened. just like Curry didn't get as many stats because the cavs game plan was to double him every possession off the pnr.
saying a guy who lost a series 4-2 shouldn't have won the mvp is not nit picking.
And lets not make it seem like he was doubled every possession or he was constantly running through and around screen. He had the ball single covered for the majority of the series.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
Jordan's 93 finals were better.
Aside from wanting Lebron to shoot better, I'm not what else you could've asked of him though. He set his teammates up for constant open 3s, open lanes to the basket, etc. etc. His passing really is excellent.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
I have been making the Iverson comp all finals- comparing this team to the philly team... Iverson got 1 game off a 3 peat lakers squad that was MASSIVELY better then this warrior team ( I don't care about advanced stats I watched both series). does he get a lifetime achievement award?
Lebron has received enough well deserved praise for a heroic attempt at leading a band of bums to the finals- but that doesn't mean you get the MVP because the game was set up for you to get all the stats and you got them.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
Lebron has received enough well deserved praise for a heroic attempt at leading a band of bums to the finals- but that doesn't mean you get the MVP because the game was set up for you to get all the stats and you got them.
The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him. The closest he came to that is a past his prime and/or injured Wade and a shallow, hastily constructed Heat team that was never really well built for success.
The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him. The closest he came to that is a past his prime and/or injured Wade and a shallow, hastily constructed Heat team that was never really well built for success.
He has been getting slobbered over all series. And he has picked and choose the teams he wanted to play with for the last 5 years.
nobody is talking 2-4--- and if they are they are making excuses for it... they don't even mention the 6 appearances are the benefit of a garbage east...
A guy can play great and not win the MVP. A guy can play great and still have some poor parts to his stats. this is all allowed.
I just think the performance justified the consideration for it, and there's precedent for it.
Ultimately it's unimportant. It's a series MVP award. You could've given it to Curry and it would've been accepted as well. Iguodala winning it I understood too.
He did give them 7 years to do it. I think the best they did was Boobie Gibson and Jamario Moon.
Giving it to Iguodala is an absurd choice, meant to fit a false narrative and nice storyline.
I wish I could see the data as to when Iguodala actually guarded LeBron, because as my memory serves, in the first half of hte series, he was only really guarding him in the 4th quarter when LeBron was gassed but still forced to carry the loads.
Later in the series, he guarded him more frequently, but still not all game. So if Iguodala was so masterful in his defense on LeBron, then why didn't he guard him all game?
And Iguodala's offense was predicated entirely on what Steph Curry did to give him the leasiest layups or wide open shots he could ever ask for.
I don't know how you can watch what LeBron did this series, and then say the most valuable player in the series was the guy defending him.
Lebron got less help in these finals than any other time in NBA history. His team was laughably bad. HE had a fucking D league team out there with him. Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor. Get that? Timofy fucking Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor.
No player is carrying that Cavs team to the finals let alone winning them against one of the better all time regular season teams to come along in quite some time.
Curry should have been the mvp though.
Hell, screw Pippen. LeBron's fortunes in the finals could be quite different if he merely had a Bill Cartwright or Horace Grant, or even just a Steve Kerr or Kukoc-type coming off the bench, let alone a Pippen or Rodman.
I assumed the Finals would more or less be a cakewalk for the Warriors, but I was sure wrong about the impact a top-3 player in history can have.
in 2010 he had the better team.
they won in 11 and 12.
in 2013 they got flat beat.
this year is the only one where we can discuss supporting cast--- where clearly the injuries left the cupboard bare.
Lebron got less help in these finals than any other time in NBA history. His team was laughably bad. HE had a fucking D league team out there with him. Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor. Get that? Timofy fucking Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor.
No player is carrying that Cavs team to the finals let alone winning them against one of the better all time regular season teams to come along in quite some time.
Curry should have been the mvp though.
First off, it would help if you noticed when I made the original statement early in the 3rd when BOTH bigs had double doubles just a few minutes into the 3rd quarter. How is that not helping the cause? If you were to tell me that Lebron got 32 points and 25 rebounds combined from those 2 - he wouldnt be ecstatic? Mozgov and Thompson were more than adequate in this series.
Thompson averaged 10 points and 12 boards for the series.
Mozgov averaged 17 points and 9 rebounds in the 5 games he actually played in.
In what world are those bad numbers? People are claiming that if Lebron had a horace grant.... are you fucking kidding me. The same Horace grant that averaged a whopping 11.4 PPG and 8.7 RPG in the 3 NBA finals he won?
If Lebron shot at any type of reasonable level, they win the series. The man shot under 40%. He was part of the reason why the offense was so bad. His inefficient shooting was one of the problems with the offense. Every one keeps saying he needed to shoot the ball.... well he did, and they lost because of it.
Yeah JR Smith sucked and Delly turned into the clown that he is, but lets not act like they didnt have a shot to win the series. They were right there in 3 of the 4 games.
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The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him.
Hell, screw Pippen. LeBron's fortunes in the finals could be quite different if he merely had a Bill Cartwright or Horace Grant, or even just a Steve Kerr or Kukoc-type coming off the bench, let alone a Pippen or Rodman.
I assumed the Finals would more or less be a cakewalk for the Warriors, but I was sure wrong about the impact a top-3 player in history can have.
Horace Grant: 11.4 and 8.7
Bill Cartwright: 6.3 and 4
Those were the Bulls starting bigs in the first 3 NBA finals.... I fail to see how if they played with Lebron, they would have beaten the Warriors. Cleveland's bigs were more than adequate. As a matter of fact, maybe they should have used Mozgov more since he could actually score.
Yep, that guy! The guy who generally outplayed Rodman and Laimbeer as the Bulls swept the Pistons and generally was the third or fourth leading scorer on the team, after the two guys who usually combined for more than half of their team's points.
I'm not saying that neither Thompson nor Mozgov could hold a candle to Grant, but people often act as though the only competent teammate Jordan benefitted from was Pippen. He had quite a few other key role players the likes of which LeBron would love to play with -- and the likes of which he *has* played with, when he won championships.
1st 3peat Grant was superior to 2nd 3peat Rodman. Grant is woefully underrated historically, if he was an attention whore like Rodman maybe he'd get more respect.
My point was in regards to people saying James had absolutely no help. He did. His bigs came through. They were a force on the boards all series. Mozgov defensive rating was the best of any big in the playoffs. Thompson did a wonderful job doublign Curry on any pick and roll. Those 2 guys were key components to this series. They were not the problems whatsoever. If I told you before the series that Moz and TT would average near 30 points and 21 rebounds a game with supplying good defense - you would have all called me crazy.
The problem was Lebron's inefficient shooting and the other guards were no shows offensively.
'07 Finals he couldn't hit an outside shot
'11 Finals he played like a pussy and was scared to take an outside shot
'15 Finals he couldn't hit an outside shot
LeBron's jumper is the one hole in his overall game. It's been inconsistent over his career and in these playoffs his J was awful. I said before the series that I'd take MJ over LeBron because MJ's outside jumper was far more reliable despite LeBron being the superior player outside of the jumper. I still stand by that opinion.
Despite the monster talent difference between the Warriors and Cavs, the Cavs would've won this series if LeBron's jumper was at the level it used to be at just a couple of years ago.
But realize what this means. We're complaining that a guy who dropped 36/13/8 couldn't shoot well from the outside. If LeBron shot well from the outside while maintaining the rest of his play from these playoffs and Finals, he would have been playing at the highest level of anyone in NBA history by 10 miles. That's how good LeBron is, that we give him a little shit for not being absolutely perfect in all facets of the game.
I think the thing I took away from the Warriors the most is how they could adjust and how calm they were. I give Steve Kerr a lot of credit. I hated his idea to take Bogut out of the series, but it ended up being a great decision.
Shit, I guess I'm not as apathetic about this as I thought -- all these awesome storylines are now emerging.
David Lee too. I'm glad he had has moments in the finals, but I'd have liked him to be yet another story of it-was-all-worth-it redemption.
I wonder how many commercials the Steph Curry family is going to be in over the next couple of months. Riley and his mom could both get TV shows right now lol.
And what needs to be understood was that the Lebron that played in this series wasnt even one of the best Lebrons I ever saw play. I have seen him play at a much higher level in many series, including NBA finals. Some thing to note of this series.
- He shot horribly from the field, 3 point land, and FT line.
- He didnt play any individual defense whatsoever (as was the game plan and just by how much needed he was on offense)
- The Cavs were in every game they lost except for game 4.
When you talk about Lebron, you are speaking of one of the 3 greatest players ever. MJ, Lebron, Magic would be my top 3 because they always have the ball in their hands when its game time and played more of a role than anyone else for their teams. So when you are talking about one of the 3 greatest players ever, you expect him to rise to the occasion. Thats what GOAT players do, they play to the maximum level that carries their team.
Ive seen Lebron take out the others team best players offensively on more than one occassion.
Ive seen Lebron shoot anywhere between 55-60% from the floor for an entire series.
Ive seen Lebron score 25 consecutive points to carry his team to pivotal wins.
Was he asked to do more than any player in NBA history this series? Yeah, but only on the offensive end. People are complaining that Moz was his 2nd best player. Well like I said, he averaged 17 PPG on 55% from the floor..... tell me why they shouldnt have run more stuff for him with a 6'7 guy guarding him? If he is scoring, you feed him. Now is the ideal 2nd choice, absolutely not. But he was effective when given chances.
Lebron took 206 shots in 6 games. Thats just downright insane. He averaged 36 points on 32 shots. I am sorry, but thats not efficient enough. Osi you stated that his jumper has always been inconsistent, well he also became inconsistent around the rim as well. He missed a ton of shots he normally makes.
I am in no shape or form blaming Lebron for the loss. He was magnificent. But its also ok to acknowledge that despite the numbers, he could have done more for them to win.
Yeah, totally lame. And of course, while a game 6 clinching victory is a lot less nerve-racking than having to play a game 7, it would have been nice to win at home in front of Oracle. Holy shit, what a spectacle that would have been. The fireworks in my neighborhood were already going off until 1 am.
It's going to be an interesting next few years for the Warriors. As long as they continue their sudden trend of good health and smart FO moves, they're going to remain a team to be reckoned with. Suddenly they're going to be a coveted FA destination.
Good times! Like I've been saying since November, I want the Giants to achieve what the Warriors have.
Expecting a player with the kind of absurd workload that LeBron had to do everything well is just not realistic. The only way the Cavs win this series is if LeBron had played on a level higher than anyone else in NBA history had played. He came close but ultimately didn't reach that level.
Bogut, Iggy, and Livingston have another 2-3 really good years left in them too. Don't see why they wouldn't bring Barbosa back either. I know he has a lot of bad press on him after the missed dunk, but Speights is more than capable of replacing David Lee's minutes should they trade him. They have the luxury of getting a high risk/reward player in this draft as well.
Tom HaberstrohVerified account
@tomhaberstroh
Without LeBron James on the floor this series.
JR Smith 0/9 FG
Delly 0/7 FG
J. Jones 0/3 FG
Shumpert 0/2 FG
Total 0/21 FG