Opening round kicks off today @ 12:30 EST with Wiz vs. Raptors & the whole 'We The North'. Then it's Warriors vs. The Brow/Pelicans. Bulls-Bucks at 7:00, followed by the Texas showdown between Houston & Dallas.
I love the NBA playoffs. Two months of terrific basketball.
Anthony Davis is the best big on the floor by a huge margin. When you have the hands down best big in a playoff series, your team will always have a chance. I think the Pelicans have the potential to steal a game or two.
Wizards vs. Raptors are so evenly matched. Two mid-level teams led by stud PGs. Both of those PGs have played poorly in this game so far. Old man Paul Pierce is why the Wiz have a lead now.
You got me.Pierce has been great all day. Give him the rock.
Randy Wittman isn't a good coach.
I'll disagree with Osi and say I think I rather see Westbrook shoot it 50 times a game to kep up with GS.
And the Bulls will get him in the prime of his career!
Bucks-Bulls next.
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I'm envious of those in NOLA who see him on a daily basis. They're watching an all time great at the beginning of his career.
And the Bulls will get him in the prime of his career!
Besides being from Chicago, why would Davis consider Chicago? What are the rumors?
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In comment 12239175 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
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I'm envious of those in NOLA who see him on a daily basis. They're watching an all time great at the beginning of his career.
And the Bulls will get him in the prime of his career!
Besides being from Chicago, why would Davis consider Chicago? What are the rumors?
Hometown, bigger market. Thats a good enough start.
But the Warriors are just too damn good, especially Curry. Such a deep and talented team. I think the Pelicans can steal a game or two in this series, but I'd be shocked if they even got to a Game 7.
Can't wait for Rockets-Mavs tonight. I fucking hate the Mavs and I've waited 10 years for a playoff series rematch. I feel pretty confident, I think the Rockets are the more talented team and deserve to be the favorites. But I'm nervous about two things. #1, Carlisle is the 2nd best coach in basketball to Pop while McHale is fairly average. #2, the 15% chance of "Playoff Rondo" making a return scares me. Playoff Rondo is a mofo to deal with, I really hope that guy doesn't exist anymore. Harden needs a signature series as "the guy", I hope he brings it.
Thats poor officiating. Call the foul when he got mugged , and no elbows are thrown.
I think this could be the playoffs that cause the NBA to finally find a solution to the Hack-a-Shaq.
I think this could be the playoffs that cause the NBA to finally find a solution to the Hack-a-Shaq.
Your 3 centers might have the lowest free throw shooting percentage in the history of basketball. Did your 3rd string center make a FT yet?
His name is Clint Capela btw, and he's a legitimately impressive young Center. I hope he gets minutes in this series.
Orlando
If they could somehow get Towns...
Payton
Oladipo
Harris
Towns
Vucevic
Top 4 seed in the east within a year or 2.
but instead we get iso jack and other dog sh%t.
SanFran, healthy Rose is absolutely a game-changer. Remains to be seen if he can be that guy every night.
This is just an appetizer for the main course though. Spurs vs. Clippers. Best series of the first round. Arguably 2 of the top 3 teams in the league right now.
Can't wait for this one. Gotta go with the Spurs due to their bench, but the Clippers are no joke and have the better top-end talent in this series. Watching Leonard guard CP3 is going to be so much fun.
I hope Harden was watching and saw two of the other top young SGs in the league tear it up. He had a good overall game 1 with 24 pts and 11 assists, but he only shot 4-11 from the field. His playoff FG% is a bit of a question mark and he needs to answer it with a strong shooting performance from the field. 10+ FGM, 50+ FG%, 30+ Pts. I really want to see a vintage Harden performance tonight to get them out to a 2-0 lead. Hopefully the refs allow Dwight to play in this one, he was dominant in his 17 mins of action in game 1.
Raptors/Wizards and Cavs/Celts also on the sked for tonight. I think Toronto wins at home to tie up the series, and I think the Cavs take care of business against Boston.
Dep tonight and tomorrow i believe is 7 and 930 on tnt
Rondo would actually probably be a good fill in for the 76ers.
It's like we're in the playoffs! :D
It's like we're in the playoffs! :D
I cannot get over how many fucking former Knicks are in the postseason right now.
However, I can get a chuckle over watching them make the same mistakes they made in NY... for example, Felton misses a wide-open lay-up and JR Smith fouls a guy taking a 3 point shot.
Dwight looks 100% too. It's amazing to watch him play when he's healthy, because he unleashes his strength. Tyson Chandler has no chance against Dwight's strength.
If Dwight is truly healthy and can play like this for the rest of the playoffs, the Rockets have a chance against anyone. Hopefully Harden finds his shot in Dallas and Houston can bring the brooms out. I know that this series is far from over, but the Rockets just look better and I want to sweep that douchebag Cuban badly.
The Rondo experiment is officially a giant failure. The Mavs had the #1 offense in the league at the time of the trade. Going after Rondo was a bold move that backfired.
He's not worth anywhere near the Max.
Mavs are falling apart. And with Dirk past his prime in a loaded division, the Mavs look like they're at a crossroads.
Houston better win this series, and they better win it with ease.
They are old, slow, and not very good. They should win in 4, 5 max. And get some rest as the other two teams slug on each other.
But it was a wide open jumped that had to go in.
Watching Conley play the Blazers unfortunately does remind me of Oden. The Oden/Aldridge frontcourt would've done special things. It sucks for Portland that it never happened, and it sucks for Portland that Aldridge looks 50/50 to leave. Portland isn't just down 0-2, they're on the brink of irrelevance if this is indeed it for Aldridge as a Blazer.
Spurs vs. Clips right now, best series of the 1st round. This isn't a "must" win for the Spurs, but it's pretty damn close after the game one ass-whooping. Huge game.
Every series thus far has been boring except for Spurs/Clips and GSW/Pel.
They got fckd and it wasn't some obvious bad decision-
Total bummer they should have won today
Event arch nemesis jack played relatively well
One of the best ever.
This series needs to go 7.
Hopefully, this Spurs-Clips matchup can gain some heat with a Spurs win. They might be the 2nd and 3rd best teams in basketball, it's extremely rare to see two teams of this talent level play in a 1st round series.
Game is tied right now, should be a hell of a 4th quarter.
Blake had a 29pt triple double, great game overall by him, but those two turnovers he had in the 4th and OT were absolute killers.
The Clippers starting 5 is a tremendous unit, but their lack of bench is going to kill them at some point in the playoffs. Win or Lose this series, I can't see a team with a bench that weak winning a title.
Hack a DeAndre worked because he only made 35%, but the Spurs almost screwed up because they stopped making baskets while they were doing it.
I didn't realize until I watched the postgame how little minutes the Clippers' bench played.
With the game being played on Friday, the Spurs should be the fresher squad.
But Timmy did play 44 mins, I wouldn't expect a repeat performance in Game 3.
Green actually had more 1st place votes than Kawhi (45 to 37), but Kawhi won the overall vote (333 to 317). DeAndre Jordan was a close 3rd with 32 1st place votes and 261 overall vote points.
All due respect to Draymond Green. His ability to switch onto anyone is one of the main reasons why the Dubs are so damn good. Very good defender. And he played more games than Kawhi which matters.
But Kawhi at his best, is hands down the best wing defender in the league. He can just dictate an entire game with his D in a way Draymond just can't imo.
A fucking joke that Kawhi has more DPOYs than Duncan. Duncan deserved 2-5 DPOYs over the past 15 years.
I wish the Knicks had him as a coach. Instead we have a vastly overpaid coach who looks completely lost.
They may blow this game but its actually not the end of the world.
Another game to get Mirotic back and for this team which has hardly played together to gel before facing the Cavs.
It was clearly a foul though.
There is also, of course, the possibility that Jackson is being more Zen than Berman gives him credit for, and just not showing his hand.
We'll see.
Link - ( New Window )
And then they give each team 3 timeouts for overtime, which I'll never in my life understand. Give them 1 each and move on, would make for a lot better overtimes.
- Davis missed a free throw to put them up 4 late.
- They didn't foul up 3 late.
Curry just whipped fuckin' ass late. Bogut's defense was really good in the 4th and Draymond murdered the offensive glass.
Knicks.
Yeah, because the best way to describe the guy who just finished second in DPOY voting (with the most 1st place votes) and is 11th in the entire league in adjusted plus-minus is "a 12 and 8 player". Because that's an accurate reflection of his value. Okay.
Awesome defensive player though. Not someone you build a team around.
Awesome defensive player though. Not someone you build a team around.
Keep in mind that the cap is projected to have huge jumps in two consecutive offseasons after this one. A max this offseason will be 25% of the cap this year, but it will only be about 20% of the cap next year and 15% of the cap the following year. Green doesn't have to be an alpha dog on a team at that price.
And it's important to consider who is offering the max deal. Golden State can and will match any offer Green gets. I can agree with someone saying that a team like, say, Charlotte might not want to offer Green the max because their offense is completely broken and he can't do much to fix it. But he's an incredible fit for GSW.
Salary cap projection for 2016 and 2017. - ( New Window )
He's a better fit for a team that needs one or two more parts to complete the puzzle, than a team that is going to lean on his ability to take them somewhere.
Awesome defensive player though. Not someone you build a team around.
greg Monroe a much better max candidate...
Plus, if you're going to spend money, spend money on size, not wings.
As great as Steph Curry's shot was (and three point shooting to close out the game), it was really Barnes/Draymond and the role players who did work attacking the offensive glass that won the game for the Warriors last night.
The GM (name escapes me) and Kerr have done a fantastic job building and utilizing an incredibly well-rounded and deep bench this season.
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the max is going to regret it.
Yeah, because the best way to describe the guy who just finished second in DPOY voting (with the most 1st place votes) and is 11th in the entire league in adjusted plus-minus is "a 12 and 8 player". Because that's an accurate reflection of his value. Okay.
It's not accurate, but it sure is chrisesque!
He's a better fit for a team that needs one or two more parts to complete the puzzle, than a team that is going to lean on his ability to take them somewhere.
I don't think anyone is signing him to be the alpha dog on offense. But the Knicks wouldn't need him to be. They wouldn't even need to sign him to be the #2 option on offense. The whole reason Melo is on the team is to be the primary scoring option - if he's not in that role he's not maximizing his value. If I'm going to pick a guy to pair with him, I want to pick a guy who complements his skills as the 3/4 as well as possible, and to me that means I want a defensive superstar. If I could choose literally anyone whose contract is up I'd probably choose Kawhi, but really I'm looking for someone who can change the game without needing the ball in his hands and who complements Melo's weaknesses.
It's a moot point anyway because the only way I see Green leaving Golden State is if he gets charged with a felony or something. There's no way they break this team up.
As great as Steph Curry's shot was (and three point shooting to close out the game), it was really Barnes/Draymond and the role players who did work attacking the offensive glass that won the game for the Warriors last night.
The GM (name escapes me) and Kerr have done a fantastic job building and utilizing an incredibly well-rounded and deep bench this season.
This may be an unfair nitpick and it certainly isn't a lone reason, but I think the Pelicans win if not for one dumb, incredibly tone deaf play by Evans.
With Anderson in the middle of a hot streak and up by about fifteen with six minutes left, Evans goes coast to coast, drives to the basket against 3 Warriors (with a fourth rotating to help), and gets blocked. The Warriors score on free throws on the other end.
If Thompson, Curry, or even Speights were shooting as Anderson had been, the rest of the team would have force fed the ball to him almost to a fault.
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these late Western Conference games have been the highlight of the NBA this year.
As great as Steph Curry's shot was (and three point shooting to close out the game), it was really Barnes/Draymond and the role players who did work attacking the offensive glass that won the game for the Warriors last night.
The GM (name escapes me) and Kerr have done a fantastic job building and utilizing an incredibly well-rounded and deep bench this season.
This may be an unfair nitpick and it certainly isn't a lone reason, but I think the Pelicans win if not for one dumb, incredibly tone deaf play by Evans.
With Anderson in the middle of a hot streak and up by about fifteen with six minutes left, Evans goes coast to coast, drives to the basket against 3 Warriors (with a fourth rotating to help), and gets blocked. The Warriors score on free throws on the other end.
If Thompson, Curry, or even Speights were shooting as Anderson had been, the rest of the team would have force fed the ball to him almost to a fault.
Agreed, Evans is good at driving to the basket, but has low BBIQ. He should have been feeding Anderson and Davis all through the fourth quarter. And Monty Williams should have made him do so, or subbed in someone who would.
Also, the Pels gave up way too many offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter. The Warriors were still missing shots, but they were cleaning up on the boards. And that was with a small line-up.
Draymond not only had two huge put-backs in the final quarter, but he also made a great steal of a pass to Davis that started a fastbreak and resulted in two free throw attempts, which he made.
LeBron with another 30/10 playoff game, ho-hum. But Kevin Love hit 6 big threes and finished with 23. For all the blame Love gets, the Cavs are a dominant team when Love is on the court. The Celtics arne't much of a challenge but it's still nice to see Love play well in the playoffs.
Rockets vs. Mavs
Raptors vs. Wizards
Clippers vs. Spurs
I really hope the Rockets win tonight and go ahead 3-0, I want this series to be over asap. Raptors on the ropes in Washington, but I think they have a chance to come back if thieir All-Star backcourt plays like it. Spurs vs. Clippers should be great.
Toronto-Washington in a tight one early in the 4th. Spurs jumped out to an early lead on the Clips.
Spurs up 8 on the Clips at the half. Huge 2nd half coming up.
The Clips are in deep shit. They need to cut that lead in half by the end of the quarter.
Who you got as your top 5? Gets harder as years go on... I dont know if I have Duncan top. maybe 7-8.
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Arguably the best player since MJ, arguably a Top 5 player of all-time, hands down one of the best teammates ever.
Who you got as your top 5? Gets harder as years go on... I dont know if I have Duncan top. maybe 7-8.
All-Time is Jordan + the 3 GOAT Centers (Russ/Wilt/Kareem). 5th place is so tough to pick because of all the guys in contention, including Duncan.
Post-80 (aka post-Magic/Bird), I'd rank them in tiers like this...
Jordan
Duncan/Magic/Shaq/Bird/LeBron
Hakeem/Kobe
Garnett/Dirk/Malone/Barkley/Robinson
Duncan might be the 2nd best player of the Modern Era (post-80/3pt line).
Hope you and your girl had a good time. Nice win, showed atleast a little toughness.
If I could be the GM on any team in the NBA, I think I might go to the Bucks. They're just a few years and a few tweaks away from being formidable.
Rose looks good. Bulls need to re-sign Butler and go all-in on the Rose/Butler backcourt. That could potentially rival Golden State as the best backcourt in the league if Rose really is back.
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to the nets game today... 2 rows back. hoping we last through at least half the game!
Hope you and your girl had a good time. Nice win, showed atleast a little toughness.
thanks dude. Was a very fun day- she held up well - the series has been pretty even though out. Bogdonovic was tough today- and Lopez/johnson created matchup issues. Horford looks like a shell of himself. Lopez has owned him. I see little reason why they cant tie it up Monday if they bring the effort.
Once Davis steps his mental game up on D, he will finally become a legit DPOY candidate. And that, along with more offensive growth as a ball-handler/creator, will make him unstoppable.
Great season for the 22 year old Anthony Davis. But 27 year old Steph Curry was slightly better this year, and had a far better supporting cast. Surprised that the Pelicans couldn't even steal 1 game, but they had their chance in Game 3 and let it slip away.
Memphis is just punching Portland in the face over and over again, and there's nothing the Blazers can do about it. Memphis vs. Warriors will be an interesting playoff battle.
When he gets the ball at the free throw line both Diaw and Splitter are letting him shoot. STOP settling for that jumper and take 1-2 dribble and rise above these guys for a better shot.
Too often he gets this ball at this spot and doesn't even look to drive. He kicks it out too much. Or he settles for a jumper. That's what they want you to do. Every time you do that its a win for the Spurs.
Catch that pass, instantly drive and beat the hell out of those 2. I'm a Clippers fan. He needs to score 40+ today and play more aggressive on getting closer to the basket.
Tim Duncan has been amazing especially when you consider he was doing it against Jordan. It was a low post clinic in that last one.
Must win for Clippers.
CP3, despite playing well in the playoffs, has never advanced to even a CF. That's a hole in his resume that is keeping his legacy from becoming something greater. He's one of the greatest PGs ever, period. But he needs to prove it on the big stage. And he needs to deliver a monster performance today.
I'm rooting for the Clips hard. I want this series to go 6/7.
Love out for the game. Any long term injury will hurt them against Chicago.
Disgraceful.
Impressed at the way they bounced back from the game 3 beatdown.
Hopefully the Rockets take care of business tonight so I can just sit back, relax, and watch the Spurs/Clips series.
Shaq is fucking insufferable. He takes everything personal and gets over the top emotional and gives corny come backs.
Not to mention that he's actually so bad as an analyst that he's fucking amazing for the show. Everyone in the room knows he's a fucking clown piece. I always find myself laughing at him rather than with him.
Lopez and Johnson are going to have to carry the nets.
LETS
GOOOOOOOO
you go OT or game over!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
come on baby. dont give up easy buckets make them work!
BOOM
packed house, arena rocking... really could care less about how much anyone cares... i care about playing meaningful games each season... and for this team that is occurring.
Dwill back
Lopez big again
Johnson big when it mattered
Bogs proving to be dynamic offensively.
Love it- get one in ATL lets go.
They have not hit that many big shots all year. Is there anyone who DIDN'T hit a big shot?
Looking forward to going to Game 6... maybe they'll have a shot to win their way into Round 2??
Most overrated coach in the NBA.
Really disappointed with rose and thibs. Kidd is running circles around him.
Really, really weird, but weird in a good way. I hope we enjoy a Giants season this weird.
Knick fan butt hurt?
I checked StubHub for Knicks tickets...oh, never mind.
I was pleased to hear some hawks players note the atmosphere was tough to play in down the stretch (I believe Teague commented) --- and the players are embracing the crowd--- the nets are really lacking front court depth- at times I think lopez is going to keel over playing 40 minutes
Bogs has been fantastic the last 2 games. Outplaying Korver is a massive plus for the team.
Its early but I want them to face the Wiz badly to see some Pierce bad blood emerge
its very stupid to boo him non stop as if its some villain coming back
For the past few years the Hawks played in the playoffs they always seem to lose on the road and win their home games, see if that holds true....
Bulls played last night like the series was already over, hard to put away a young team that his hungry...Bulls still win the series butthe Bucks are not going to make it easy...
Portland came out and did what they had to, force a game 5, but i dont think they win in Memphis, Conley or no Conley
I'm hoping they do... that's more rest for the Warriors!
Hey guys, did you know that the Warriors -- the Warriors! -- are the #1 seed, the championship favorite, and almost had 70 wins in a season?
I know, right?
I respect the hell out of Dirk, he's an all-time legend and someone who I can't help but like as a person. It would be easy for me to hate Dirk as a Rockets fan, the way I hate McNabb as a Giants fan. But whereas McNabb was a fake piece of shit, Dirk is genuine and clutch. I don't know if this is his last season but it feels good to kick his ass in the playoffs for once.
Harden needed to step up in the playoffs. He answered a lot of critics in this calendar year. He was the clear team leader and captain of the USA Gold team, and then he followed that up with an MVP-caliber season. But the playoffs are where stars cement themselves as legends. And Harden needed to prove that he could play his style in the playoffs. He dropped 28/8 tonight and made huge plays down the stretch in a closeout game. He averaged 28/8 on 47% shooting (~65% TS) this series. Great series from him and I hope he keeps it up vs. the Spurs/Clips, Harden vs. Kawhi would be something.
Say what you want about Dwight Howard. I know what a two-faced clown he is. But the guy is at the stage of his career where he can see the window for him as a star closing, and all he cares about is winning. He knows it's Harden's team and he just wants to do his role as a monster rebounder/defender who's capable of scoring. And make no mistake, a healthy Dwight like the one we've seen in these playoffs is a beast of a player. I'd love to see Dwight and DeAndre go head-to-head, it'd be an amazing rebounding battle.
Great win. Good job by McHale too. He's not the best Xs and Os guy in the league, but he's such a good team leader. Everyone respects and loves him as a coach, and that's all you can ask for. The way he embraced Josh Smith is a big reason the Rockets are going to advance. I hope he's ready for Pop if that's who the Rockets face.
Amazing that they haven't fixed this yet, it's such an easy fix and they still can't figure it out.
Any intentional foul is 2 shots and the ball. Or any intentional foul and the team that was fouled can pick whoever they want to shoot the free throws.
They have to put an end to it, because it destroys these games. One of the few tight games in these playoffs is just as awful to watch as the blowouts as a result.
Kawhi is having a horrendous game.
He's one of the biggest floppers/whiners in the NBA, and in a situation like that it matters.
And Doc Rivers crying about the officials. Make free throws and get a rebound at the end of the game. Very unlikable team.
The other team calls it a win when HOU drops the ball into Howard on the post so he can take 2 awkward steps and throw up an off balance left handed brick.
He's absurdly overrated.
I also would like to see LA vs HOU so Jordan can expose is limited game to a wider audience.
A close 2nd was the clear mistake on the Barnes put back.
Or the two 3 second calls on the Clippers (BOTH were under 3 seconds and outrageous calls).
Or how about the foul call on Paul when Leonard was on the ground with the ball. You NEVER See that called.
But dep has a point, Paul is a chump for flopping on a court with guys like Parker and Ginobili on the other side.
I am not a bash the ref guy but there were some outrageous calls starting with that travel on Griffin. It wans't a travel but a foul on 2 SA players.
Dal missed about 60 shots today. He was a really beast grabbing all of those misses.
Was dirk a beast today too? He had 20+ and 14 reb.
Howard is no beast. He can't carry a team even as a #3.
Easily one of the most overrated players of the past 20 years. And that is clear because we still have people calling him a beast.
Unmmmm carrying the magic to the finals? Beating lebron along the way? Yeah he was so overrated pre injury
And yes beast only has to do with points- ??? The rebounds, creating of rebounding opportunities for others, defensive presence- yeah as a # 3 he is terrible...... What game are you watching? This sounds like a bitter rant from 3 years ago when he was whining like a bitch to be traded from Orlando
And he's awesome on the boards and on D. Watching Dwight play defense and then watching DeAndre Jordan playing defense right after, you can really see how much better Dwight is at positioning himself on D. DeAndre was 3rd in the DPOY ballot and a healthy Dwight is a clearly better defensive player than DeAndre imo.
17 PPG -- .580 FG% -- 13 RPG -- DPOY-caliber impact
That's a beast.
Nets need to keep moving the ball and keep switching screens on defense. all of the pressure is now on the hawks.
and I will be there Friday night in Brooklyn, so lets hope its for the knock out!
joe johnson with just 4 shots--- a lot of forces, little ball movement, and giving up easy buckets.
Pretty weak but still down just 11
lets gooooooo
huge swing.
would have never thought teague makes that chuck 3 there given they have litle 4th quarter offense outside of the 3
Really stupid.
As good as jack was scoring, he gave up every basket in the 4th, either because he cant guard a pick n roll or cant guard man to man.
2 of 3 road games winnable --- not good.
Lopez looked tired tonight the lack of front court depth hurt them.
Need to get one Friday night.
huge swing.
would have never thought teague makes that chuck 3 there given they have litle 4th quarter offense outside of the 3
I didn't see this game, but that exact thing happened in the Warriors comeback game against the Pelicans. NO was up by 15 or so with 6 minutes left and Ryan Anderson on fire, and Tyreke just up and decides to take it to the rack surrounded by four Warriors. I simply couldn't believe it.
Dunleavy gave him a little cheap shot on offense. missed shot, dunleavy runs the floor, gets open for a 3, shoots it, and the freak basically just speared him into the front row.
I hope pop blasts these officials like rivers did. Clippers have gotten every call tonight.
Being that you're a clippers fan, I would think you look at calls on a doc rivers level, which means you want every single call. From my angle when diaw touched it, it wasn't in the cylinder.
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Are you fucking blind?
Being that you're a clippers fan, I would think you look at calls on a doc rivers level, which means you want every single call. From my angle when diaw touched it, it wasn't in the cylinder.
On the overhead angle it was clear that Diaw touched it on the cylinder, not sure if you saw that angle
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In comment 12261228 KWALL2 said:
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Are you fucking blind?
Being that you're a clippers fan, I would think you look at calls on a doc rivers level, which means you want every single call. From my angle when diaw touched it, it wasn't in the cylinder.
On the overhead angle it was clear that Diaw touched it on the cylinder, not sure if you saw that angle
I saw it about an hour ago. Which thrn was the right call. But it looked clean from the side angle.
As a fan of neither team, hoping for the Spurs. The Dwight-Jordan hackfest would be unbearable!
One of them being eliminated this early is crazy.
This is a Legacy game for a lot of people. Chris Paul needs this more than anybody. Blake and DeAndre need this. The Spurs desperately want to advance past the 1st round in their attempt at a repeat. A Spurs loss could possible be the end of the Duncan era.
A lot on the line in this one, with the winner facing the Rockets in the next round. Such a monster playoff matchup, can't wait.
Speaking of Diaw, if he took care of his body better he would be an excellent starting player right now.
It was great seeing the hack a jordan backfire in that last game. I hate that shit but I would do it if too if I had a guy shooting 37%.
One of them being eliminated this early is crazy.
This is a Legacy game for a lot of people. Chris Paul needs this more than anybody. Blake and DeAndre need this. The Spurs desperately want to advance past the 1st round in their attempt at a repeat. A Spurs loss could possible be the end of the Duncan era.
A lot on the line in this one, with the winner facing the Rockets in the next round. Such a monster playoff matchup, can't wait.
Osi, yup. I ditto all you said. This could be a history changing moment for both franchises. I'm pumped. Cracking open first brew now.
Paul and rivers are by far and away the two biggest crybaby es in the nba.
Calling a fgoul there is a fuckign disgrace. Wonder if Doc was ok with that call too?
No pushoff on that basket by Paul? Of course not.
As much as I despise Paul's antics, he needs this playoff win for his legacy. He is an all-time great point guard, but just hasn't gotten over the hump in the playoffs.
Spurs got fucking hosed this series.
As much as I despise Paul's antics, he needs this playoff win for his legacy. He is an all-time great point guard, but just hasn't gotten over the hump in the playoffs.
It wasnt his skill to get him a series win, it was his tears. And it was a fucking joke.
Doc Rivers is a fucking clown.
He's very tough to root for since he bitches and cries at everything.
Dep. Just stop watching. There is no helping you.
Dep. Just stop watching. There is no helping you.
Yes. He clearly did. Every annoucner and broadcaster said it. You cannot put your arm into his wait and extend. Holy shit, I am going to ask if you are fucking blind. The TNT crew was literally laughing at how oopen he got.
Go fuck off or fuck yourself. You know fuckign dick about basketball. Nice to see you jump on the Clippers bandwagon after years of choking.
Keep exposing yourself as a fool.
Keep exposing yourself as a fool.
If I continue to expose the patheticness of Doc and Paul - will you cry and bitch like them?
Doc didnt mention that in any interview, but he sure did cry about an obvious call in the 3rd.
Hopefully the rockets take care of the LACrybabies. So we dont have to hear Kwall say how overrated Howard is or how great his "Clippers" are for another 20 years.
Dep. Just stop watching. There is no helping you.
Go to the 1:38 mark. Clear as day. Pause. Put it in slow mo. That is 10x the foul than the one they called on Duncan. You can not put your arm into the defenders away and extend. That is called a pushoff.
Now go to bed.
Paul pushes off - ( New Window )
When a guy drives to the basket, there is always contact. bitching about it when it doesn't go your way exposes you as a basketball bozo.
End of story.
Dep
Hilarious.
When a guy drives to the basket, there is always contact. bitching about it when it doesn't go your way exposes you as a basketball bozo.
End of story.
Dep
So are you calling Doc Rivers a bozo since he does it publicly after games and during in-game interviews.
The Duncan fould was pure BS, and if you believe that is a 50-50 call, then it porves you are not a fan of the game for 20 years. I never ONCE saw that called at the end of the game.
But at least you admit that Rivers is a bozo.
Hilarious.
I didnt think you were smart enough to see it real time. I was trying to help your rose colored eyes.
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"Put it in slow mo"
Hilarious.
I didnt think you were smart enough to see it real time. I was trying to help your rose colored eyes.
I think what he is getting at is that refs don't have Slow Mo Vision. It makes it less of a disgrace and more of an understandable mistake.
Personally, I don't sympathize with the Spurs. I've seen those guys on the favored end of officiating way too many times.
Really happy to see how Wall has grown into a franchise player. He's a true PG and floor general. If he can thoroughly outplay Teague in this series, the Wizards have a great chance to advance.
The Grizzlies just have no chance against the Warriors without Conley. And even with Conley, the Warriors are just a matchup nightmare for Memphis. I'm hoping Memphis grinds their way into this series somehow, but I'm expecting GS in 5.
absolutely ridiculous.
Wall is a stud and the parts of his game he worked on are impressive now as well.
Mirotic had a fantastic year and he wont get any burn because of Thibs stubornness.
Neither should Noah and Gasol but that ship has sailed.
CP3 is a game-time decision but I think he's prob good to go. Hopefully Harden outplays CP3 this series, the play of those 2 will have a huge impact on the outcome of this series obviously.
And I hope Blake doesn't go nuts and the Rockets bench is enough to overcome the Clippers' superior starting 5.
Fuck the NBA. Seriously.
You cant call anything against the Lebron Cavaliers. Fuck that shit.
Lol at your logic.
Paul would have given LA a huge advantage at this position but now who knows what he has left.
Of course, I'll take the Clippers in 6. ;)
But Kenny the cheat Mauer, comes in and knows the play cant be reviewed, so he makes up a rule to take the basket away. Its pure BS and nothing is ever done about it.
Oh great fucknut is here. Dust off your clippers t-shirt. 20 years is a long time. Hope it still fits.
And I'll make sure I'll do my best CP3, Doc Rivers, and Kwall2 when the Bulls "supposedly" get fucked out of a call. But unlike you, Ill at least get the play and situation right.
Face it...everybody in the NBA is against your team.
If Delladova and Shumpert bang threes, its going to be hard press for the Bulls to win.
Brooks could be a key guy here. Delladova cant guard him. If he can hit a couple shots this quarter, it would be huge.
Bulls cant get any stops with this lineup. And cant score. A thibs special.
Thibs has to find a way to defend this James/Irving pick and roll.
Normally I would agree. But thats what Thibs always does at the end of a game. He did it with Nate, Augustin, and just did it with Butler.
They needed this game because Cleveland will figure some things out. Hopefully Rose is fine.
Then dont read them. Its that easy. People bitch in every game thread, especially in the playoffs. So if you dont want to see it, then its a simple solution.
One of these years the Knicks may somehow squeak into the postseason, and you can bet your ass that we'll be just as bad. Hell, we've been just as bad when their playing the Sixers in December.
Gasol to Bulls
Pierce to Wiz
But dont underestimate Ariza going to Houston. They didnt have that wing defender for years and now it makes such a huge difference. Parsons was a nice scorer, but Ariza brings a little more.
Blake was unbelievable. He's such a complete player now compared to a few years back. Another triple double. He carried that team tonight and was easily the best player on the floor. I need more from Harden. He's very smart about picking his spots but he needs to be more aggressive in the playoffs.
This one is a kick in the nuts. So pissed.
We beat an old ass Mavs team, great. But we can't even take out a Clips team without Paul?
McHale better tear these guys a new asshole. There's no way Paul is playing in Game 2 now. The Rockets absolutely need to win game 2. Must win. I would be so disappointed if they came out flat and played no D yet again.
Santa, you're a great poster and you know I've been high on the Warriors for years now. But I'm in ANYONE BUT THE WARRIORS mode right now. They've just made it look way too easy this year. They're just so damn good. I'm jealous. Hopefully the Rockets find their balls sometime in the next 2 weeks and can give you guys a challenge in the WCF (Grizz are helpless).
This really sucks. The Rockets were the lesser of the two evils for me. Don't want the Clippers to succeed at anything. Have to respect Blake Griffin though. Hell of a fucking player.
Santa, you're a great poster and you know I've been high on the Warriors for years now. But I'm in ANYONE BUT THE WARRIORS mode right now. They've just made it look way too easy this year. They're just so damn good. I'm jealous. .
Honestly, I get that. I mean, even I somewhat miss the scrappiness that comes with being a challenged underdog all the time. As a Bay Area kid in my early to late teens during the 80's, I was annoyed by how routinely awesome the 9'ers were and chose to go with my dad's team (the Giants) instead of rooting for the home team. It feels weird having a team I like becoming awesomely dominant, though it's a weird feeling I'd like the Giants to inflict on me some day again all season long.
I will say this though: listen to some Soundcloud interviews and radio show appearances of anyone on the Warriors and you may change your mind.
Especially Kerr, who seems to have no ego. Unlike his predecessor he prioritized assembling a highly-skilled staff and then actually deferred to and empowered them. But he's got a little sarcastic edge to him that is sometimes even a little Popovichian. He's not gratuitous about it, but he'll unleash it when appropriate. For example, when they lost two meaningless games in a row during the final month (having already locked up best record in the West if not the league by then) and some reporter asked him some stupid apocalyptically-themed question, Kerr was like, "Do you think we should start calling new plays and experimenting with new rotations because we've lost two in a row?"
There's no scenario I can see the Warriors losing the title this year outside of Bogut getting hurt or LeBron having the best series of his legendary career. And even if LeBron goes 40/10/10 over 7 games, the Warriors still might win that series because of their depth. It's unfair how good you are. The '15 Warriors are the best sports team I've seen since the '07 Pats. And that '07 Pats team was FAAAR better in the 1st half of that season than the 2nd half. This Warriors team has remained at a consistently dominant level. This is a legendary team and season if you can complete it.
Yes, I'm trying to jinx you guys.
But c'mon, they're not just really good, they're also really likeable! And part of why they are so good is because they have crazy, ridiculous chemistry. To a man, they all talk about how they enjoy spending time with each other, which translates itself on the court as unselfish play. The new coaches all say they've never seen anything like it in other teams. Sometimes it might actually hurt them, such as when Klay or Steph get hot and the other guys pass up good shots to force feed them the ball.
But c'mon, they're not just really good, they're also really likeable! And part of why they are so good is because they have crazy, ridiculous chemistry. To a man, they all talk about how they enjoy spending time with each other, which translates itself on the court as unselfish play. The new coaches all say they've never seen anything like it in other teams. Sometimes it might actually hurt them, such as when Klay or Steph get hot and the other guys pass up good shots to force feed them the ball.
Teams are disliked the more they win. So if they win it this year, you will be surprised to see how many people root against them next year. Goes with the territory.
today, Colin on the Herd still dismissing Griffins talent. For years he called him strictly a volleyball player (nonsense) and now says he wants his top player have the ability to make it easier for others to score. Id say that's one of the true strengths of his game. Anybody who doesn't see it simply isn't watching.
It didn't just happen in this series. He has always been a strong passer who gets others easy shots. When Paul went down last year he showed it big time without a PG.
Barkley comments were off to when he lumped Griffin in the group of Clippers that can't get their own shot. tusts not accurate at all. He can get to his spot on just about anybody and he's a one man fast break.
Link - ( New Window )
The point is, Webber claims to know LeBron's intent. If he were to be impartial, which he is supposed to be as a national announcer, he should not make those claims or at least evaluate the evidence at face. Especially since the movement of LeBron's leg does not like like someone just jumping vertically to contest a shot.
BTW, do you have some more Warrior interviews to glowingly recap for us? Steve Kerr for president!
The point is, Webber claims to know LeBron's intent. If he were to be impartial, which he is supposed to be as a national announcer, he should not make those claims or at least evaluate the evidence at face. Especially since the movement of LeBron's leg does not like like someone just jumping vertically to contest a shot.
rofl
Yeah, Webber's clearly the biased party here...
I don't think so. GS wasn't going to cruise through the playoffs without a loss... Hell, they might lose four or five games. But probably not four in this series.
My biggest gripe is that Game 3 isn't until Saturday night. Sunday, Tuesday, Saturday. So dumb.
Another triple double on tap tonight.
What a entitled bitch LeBron is.
Yeah, well, that's the kind of thing that makes the Knicks the Knicks.
The Bulls can lose by 50, and Butler will play 40 plus minutes, Gasol 38 minutes.
They did what they had to do already. They won game 1. You had to figure Lebron would come out and dominate. Butler is struggling, Gasol looks tired, Noah looks stoned, and Rose cant hit a shot. Its a perfect storm. Clevleand isnt this good and Chicago isnt this bad.
I mean Shumpert is a 3 point ace. Delladova is making double clutch shots. This wont happen all series.
Embarrassing is the only word to use if the Rockets lose this one tonight.
James fucking Harden, all eyes on you tonight bud. We'll see what you're made of. 1pt or 20pts, I don't care... just win.
I want Harden to drop a 40burger tonight. Now is the time.
That all depends upon the fashion in which they lose, if they lose. What if Griffin keeps Griffining and pulls off something like a 32-16-12 game with 3 blocks?
Stat of the series. Free throw attempts:
Kyrie - 17
Rose - 0
Joke.
How about Joakim Noah who cant guard anyone or score? Cleveland is playing 1 big.
And Gasol has been fucking garbage this game.
And James Jones now has hit 4 3s now. All of them on noah. Which is why you want a steretch 4 in the game.
If you arent watching the game, dont make pointless posts.
He is having a Boozer like game.
But he is Pau "fucking" Gasol.
Noah has been absolute fuycking garbage (and as I write this he misses another uncontested lay up). Mirotic was fucking awesome this year. Was a double-double machine when he got 30 plus minutes.
ANd he cant see a game when a team is playing 4 shooters. Mirotic isnt some scrub. This is a fucking joke he hasnt played.
This makes absolutely no sense. I have seen him play all year. I know what he can do. And its not like he has never played in big times game. His EuroLeague team was in the championship 3 years in a row and he was POY twice.
Clevelands shooters were the key. Hopefully they miss next game.
I'm actually stunned at how he wasn't hurt at all. He's a large human being who fell with a lot of power.
This is supposed to be fun to watch?
The Clips look like the better team and I expect them to win this series in 6. But I'm so happy this Rockets team showed some balls and won a must-win game at home. Not the best James Harden game, but he came alive when the team needed him the most with 16 of his 32 in the 4th quarter. Harden has been clutch as hell in the regular season this year and he showed up again in the 4th with the season on the line. Happy that he got it done when his team needed him.
1-1 into LA, we'll see what happens to CP3. Best of 5 series now, just have to steal one over there and regain homecourt.
Every series is 1-1 now, so it's getting interesting.
I'm feeling a bit more confident now. Harden better make that bitch Barnes pay.
Just disgusting behavior from Barnes if true.
Griffin should have been more aggressive in the 2nd half. If he was, LA wins.
Get Paul back in game 3 and this series is over in 5 or 6.
I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm just rooting for a good series. But it was damn frustrating to watch once Harden came back in the game in the third.
In typical fashion, Harden got to the line anytime he drew any amount of contact. Harden has developed this skill to a masterful level. And if the refs are going to call it as such, then fine. It's annoying to watch a FT fest, but if the refs are going to call it tight, then defenses have to adjust.
However, in the middle of Harden's immediate return, Turkoglu pokes the ball away and Harden's first reaction is to grab and yank Turkoglu's arm to delay him from getting to the ball.
If anyone should be called for that type of foul, it's Harden.
I am glad I went to bed last night at half. The amount of free throws shot is just flat out ridiculous.
16 pt 4th quarter including a couple of huge 3s and a clutch drive late in the game. Bigtime game from Harden in a bigtime moment.
And yes, styles make matchups and the Rockets vs. Clippers is not a good matchup if you want to see beautiful basketball. But f that, I'm still enjoying the hell out of it even though the Hack-A-Whoever is terrible.
I'm praying Memphis found something in Game 2 with the return of Conley. I'm still expecting a Golden State beatdown in Game 3, but maybe just maybe the Grizz have found a way to assert their physical toughness over the Warriors.
And a baby too boot. The only that pisses me off about Harden now is after he feeds himself after he hits a 3 (come on, you have to admit, he looks like a jackass). But CP3's game right now is downright pathetic to watch because of his antics. He has a lot of nerve to question any call that goes agaisnt him.
Plus, the guy has the best stepback Jumper in the league now. That's made 2015 James Harden infinitely more watchable than 2013-14 Harden. When people say "Harden isn't fun to watch", I shake my head these days. Sure those 4 borderline FTAs a game he gets might annoy some, but he's such a brilliant offensive player to watch go to work. And again, that stepback is one of the sweetest shots in basketball now. Such a perfect counter move for him because the threat of the drive is always in the defenders head.
I'm praying Memphis found something in Game 2 with the return of Conley. I'm still expecting a Golden State beatdown in Game 3, but maybe just maybe the Grizz have found a way to assert their physical toughness over the Warriors.
I'm not going to say that such a thing is impossible. However...
...the Warriors had more turnovers than assists in game 2! I bet that happened no more than once or twice this season, I bet they lost all games in which that happened, and I bet that won't happen again.
Conley/Allen is probably the best defensive backcourt in basketball and probably the backcourt duo with the best chance at slowing down Curry/Klay. Plus they have a stud interior defender in Marc Gasol.
I think Curry will find a way to get his no matter what. So Klay Thompson really needs to be the guy to step up. Tony Allen is as good as it gets but Klay's going to get good looks and he'll need to nail them.
Yeah, it's antithetical to their reputation. But I think they need a more consistent third scoring threat for those games in which Curry and/or Thompson are either minimized by the other team, or simply having an off night. When you wade through the playoffs you'll likely face a team that's adept at removing the first (and then, maybe to a lesser degree, the second) thing you like to do.
The Warriors get a lot of their offense from their defense making stops or forcing turnovers -- when they're in transition, the unbelievable switching they do on D actually results in chaos when the other team's defenders try to find and cover their matchup. But I don't know if that's going to be enough throughout the whole duration of the playoffs.
I'm not doctor, but: "Wizards guard John Wall underwent multiple examinations yesterday that revealed five non-displaced fractures in his left wrist and hand.
Wall and the team are currently in consultation with multiple physicians and specialists to determine the best course of action and his playing status has yet to be determined. Further updates will be provided as information becomes available."
I agree. I meant that the series was hard to watch for a variety of factors, and the lack of Chris Paul was one of them-- but that the silver lining of no Chris Paul is that there are no Chris Paul antics. I think it was lost in the way I phrased it.
Really sucks because that Wiz-Hawks series should be a cakewalk for Atlanta now.
Its becoming a joke.
If they are going to call the game like this, Chicago has no chance. They are attacking every possession and cant get 1 call.
OK. So then all the times he's he didn't come to dominate? Sounds like he should maybe try to dominate more?
This is an abomination of three referees.
Bulls fans benefitted from a star getting every call for 15 years on their way to 6 titles. Boo fucking hoo.
Bulls fans benefitted from a star getting every call for 15 years on their way to 6 titles. Boo fucking hoo.
Wow. That's some preschool logic right there. Two wrongs make a right!
Anyways, Mirotic plays, the Bulls do well. Its not a secret.
Bulls fans benefitted from a star getting every call for 15 years on their way to 6 titles. Boo fucking hoo.
But maybe you forgot hue Hollins and Hebert Davis? That basically gifted your team a finals appearance.
Anyways, Mirotic plays, the Bulls do well. Its not a secret.
Ewing cross paint fade away involved three steps every single time. Without officiating the knicks wouldn't have been able to finish second to the Bulls.
The point is stars get calls. That's how the NBA has always been and how it always will be. You guys act like LeBron is the only one to get them, when Jordan got them for 15 years!
Just put the fuckign Cavs in the finals. Just total fucking bullshit.
Is that how that works?
The point is stars get calls. That's how the NBA has always been and how it always will be. You guys act like LeBron is the only one to get them, when Jordan got them for 15 years!
Derrick Rose does not get calls.
Not one free throw in 3 games and counting. He doesnt get calls. He leads the series in most drives to the basket. Not one free throw.
And yes he is still a star.
Is that how that works?
OK so assuming your unsubstantiated assertion is true, maybe they only win 4 or 5? That still gives them four our five more than you guys. And without officiating you don't get spanked by the rockets either, so that's something to be thankful for.
Jordan's final shot as a Bull was a blatant pushoff not called to win the nba finals. But yeah, he didn't get calls.
the lebron/rose block should have been a no call.
and the knicks fan base consistently sounds like the jets.
the lebron/rose block should have been a no call.
and the knicks fan base consistently sounds like the jets.
Since we're just making up shit like the Knicks would have never finished 2nd to the Bulls without officiating I figured I'd throw some wacky shit out there that no one can disprove or prove
We will point it out when its so egregious than it affects the game. The charge would have been his 3rd in the half, instead it gave them a two point lead.
If rose got 1/5th the calls the cavs (and that includes Irving) have gotten this series, the bulls would be leading 2-1 after this game.
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want to keep repeating how LeBron gets every call every game they will be reminded of Jordan getting every call every game.
We will point it out when its so egregious than it affects the game. The charge would have been his 3rd in the half, instead it gave them a two point lead.
If rose got 1/5th the calls the cavs (and that includes Irving) have gotten this series, the bulls would be leading 2-1 after this game.
You guys have been bitching about LeBron getting a call every 5 minutes for the first 3 games.
I'm sure you guys felt that Jordan getting every call the entire decade in the 90's was cool though.
Stars get calls. Deal with it.
the bulls should win this game regardless
4/25 from rose, butler, noah combined and down 2.... not a bad result
Quote:
In comment 12278511 MookGiants said:
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want to keep repeating how LeBron gets every call every game they will be reminded of Jordan getting every call every game.
We will point it out when its so egregious than it affects the game. The charge would have been his 3rd in the half, instead it gave them a two point lead.
If rose got 1/5th the calls the cavs (and that includes Irving) have gotten this series, the bulls would be leading 2-1 after this game.
You guys have been bitching about LeBron getting a call every 5 minutes for the first 3 games.
I'm sure you guys felt that Jordan getting every call the entire decade in the 90's was cool though.
Stars get calls. Deal with it.
Mook, I doubt you watched much of this series with the Rangers playing at the same time. But its just more than Lebron. Mozgov, Irving, Thompson are all getting calls.
Isn't that true of half the games you watch though?
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is by far the worst officiated game I have ever seen.
Isn't that true of half the games you watch though?
Niko Mirotic says hello.
So the refs will decide a foul on Butler. And maybe 2 techs on the bulls?
Ok, only 1 tech. Good job refs. Fuck up the initial call, and help the Cavs more.
No foul though, right? 3 guys slapping at him all magically got air/ball.
And yes it was goaltend.
Butler is a star.
It's been crooked as fuck. And it's been just fine for decades despite that.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!
I wish the Bulls would be wiped off the map.
I wish the Bulls would be wiped off the map.
Boo hoo
Again, if you went back 20 years and there was BBI, you would have everyone saying how the games are crooked as fuck in favor of the Bulls. If you didn't have a problem with it then, then shut the fuck up about it now. This isn't some new LeBron thing, it's always been that way
If you foul and you miss one free throw, you bring losing very much into play.
You've been watching the NBA long enough to know they constantly blow easy calls. There's no excuse for missing Jimmy Butler blatantly walk on his layup, either. But they miss them, and for as long as the NBA has been around they've missed them. But now people bitch more because of the technology and instant replay
Chicago winning this game was the best thing for this series. Now we get to see a great game 4.
Let's go HTown. Big game 3.
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for missing goaltending calls though. Those are easy and obvious. Its been more than once this series too.
You've been watching the NBA long enough to know they constantly blow easy calls. There's no excuse for missing Jimmy Butler blatantly walk on his layup, either. But they miss them, and for as long as the NBA has been around they've missed them. But now people bitch more because of the technology and instant replay
Everyone walks. You saw it. James and Butler exchanged walks at the end of the game, so no advantage.
In game 1, the refs literally made up a rule in the middle of the game when they flat out missed the call. You cant defend that.
Niko Mirotic says hello.
Yeah I saw that guy, but all I caught was the 2nd half and saw him watch lobs to Thompson go over his head for alley oops or give up three-pointers to James Jones. Not unforgiveable shit by any means, but certainly something that you'd chew him out for if he were Gasol.
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Niko Mirotic says hello.
Yeah I saw that guy, but all I caught was the 2nd half and saw him watch lobs to Thompson go over his head for alley oops or give up three-pointers to James Jones. Not unforgiveable shit by any means, but certainly something that you'd chew him out for if he were Gasol.
So you missed the 13 points, 8 boards, and 2 steals in 21:00 and a +19 while he was in the game? You missed more than just a little bit.
Knicks not so much.
Knicks not so much.
Mozgov too! Ariza isnt bad as well.
Afraid the Cavs are toast.
Simply a matter of the Bulls having more good players, which offset LeBron's greatness.
Unfortunately, bc 6 is enough titles for one town. Since 1989, the Bulls have been to the Cavs what they were to the Knicks. I seriously hope no Knicks fans are rooting for the Bulls in this series.
The game is rigged for Lebron yet they let the Bulls player walk right under the basket for the go ahead pts with 30 seconds left. Really?
The refs are seeing it in real time without the benefit of 12 camera angles, slomo, and replays. But you expect them to see everything you do on your TV screen. It's ridiculous.
Stop the whining, bitching and looking like a fool. It's not fixed against your team.
The game is rigged for Lebron yet they let the Bulls player walk right under the basket for the go ahead pts with 30 seconds left. Really?
The refs are seeing it in real time without the benefit of 12 camera angles, slomo, and replays. But you expect them to see everything you do on your TV screen. It's ridiculous.
Stop the whining, bitching and looking like a fool. It's not fixed against your team.
Hysterical coming from a clippers fan who cried and bitch over game 5 against the spurs and comin from rivers and Paul who publicly cry when they lose a game.
But live it up. Clippers rarely do anything well. So you can act like a dick as much as you want. You will be non existent soon enough.
You're pathetic. Just the worst type of BB fan. Clueless and loud is no way to go through life. Clean up your act.
You're pathetic. Just the worst type of BB fan. Clueless and loud is no way to go through life. Clean up your act.
Yes plenty of times. I actually watch more basketball in a week than you do in a year.
I am the worst type of BB fan? LOL, you come out of the wood work for the first time in 20 years cause your team is good. You are the fucking scum of basketball fans.
Here's an idea. Watch for a few years. Get to understand the rules. Find a real team. I know you have been a "die hard" for 20 years, just find it funny you have become so vocal all of a sudden.
My pinkie knows more basketball than you will ever know. Heres an update, the Clippers play tomorrow in case you didnt know.
Get a clue. You dont know a fucking thing about this game.
Lebron fouling Butler in the head shooting the 3.
Lebron walking before getting fouled by Butler down 1.
Butler walking before the go ahead lay up.
Lebron fouling with Rose with 3 seconds left.
Give credit to Mook for calling out both walks. But missing 4 calls at the end of the game is either really bad officiating or.....
Whatever the case may be, its inexcusable for refs to miss that many calls at the end of the game, despite some posters telling us how tough their job is.
Sure you were. When was that? 20 years ago. Just a coincident you are more prominent that the Clippers just happened to be good this year, and you post more.... right?
And I post regularly in game threads there, but rarely ever complain about officials.
So you can do us all a favor and not post here anymore. It would be much appreciated.
I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see Memphis win this in 6. I'm not sure GS is going to be able to get a game in Memphis. Although I dont think Memphis would win in 7 so they'd have to win it in 6
Clippers winning the championship would be a natural disaster.
I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see Memphis win this in 6. I'm not sure GS is going to be able to get a game in Memphis. Although I dont think Memphis would win in 7 so they'd have to win it in 6
Memphis is one of the few teams who has two guys who can guard both Curry/Thompson. Allen/Conley are all-NBA defenders.
They are exposing Green in the post. Whoever he is guarding is having a field day in the post. Gasol just looks like a beast right now.
So before you didnt know if I was. Now you know that I was. You're a fucking idiot. Do you make shit up as you go, or are you just stupid?
If I drive you away from threads, then Eric should pay me a stipend.
They made it interesting. Not over yet.
Expecting another huge game from Lebron.
Memphis is really beating them up. Mike Conley has been one of the most underrated players in the league for a while now, good to see him prove his worth in these playoffs.
I'm really happy that Golden State has their back against the wall now. They've been rolling all year and aren't used to getting punched in the face. Steve Kerr's inexperience might be showing right here, Game 4 is going to be a huge moment in Kerr's young coaching career. I'm really interested in seeing what Golden State is made out of.
Cavs are getting close to the dangerzone. LeBron needs to go beastmode and carry them to the W here.
Both teams look tired. Guys are missing wide open shots that they are accustomed to making. Ill never understand why the Bulls are play every other day, yet the Memphis-GS and Was/Atl series just had 3 days off.
And Shumpert pushed him in the hip as he was driving. A foul is a foul.
And if you dont think they are going to call that. Ask Tim Duncan if they call it in a game 7 of a tie gmae with less than 30 seconds to go.
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hit him after he got the ball, they're not going to call that
And Shumpert pushed him in the hip as he was driving. A foul is a foul.
And if you dont think they are going to call that. Ask Tim Duncan if they call it in a game 7 of a tie gmae with less than 30 seconds to go.
If they call that Shumpert foul all game then we're going to be here all day watching a free throw contest. I'd prefer they let those go, just like they did on the play LeBron committed the charge where Butler slapped his wrist before the charge occurred. If they called it by letter of law it's a foul on Butler and a bailout for LeBron, i'm glad they didn't call it on Butler
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In comment 12279998 MookGiants said:
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hit him after he got the ball, they're not going to call that
And Shumpert pushed him in the hip as he was driving. A foul is a foul.
And if you dont think they are going to call that. Ask Tim Duncan if they call it in a game 7 of a tie gmae with less than 30 seconds to go.
If they call that Shumpert foul all game then we're going to be here all day watching a free throw contest. I'd prefer they let those go, just like they did on the play LeBron committed the charge where Butler slapped his wrist before the charge occurred. If they called it by letter of law it's a foul on Butler and a bailout for LeBron, i'm glad they didn't call it on Butler
Mook, you have already admitted your openly rooting for the Bulls to lose. If three people hit a guy on the drive, you have to call a foul. The free throw are 24-9 this game and the Bulls are consistently driving to the basket.
They missed the call. Simple. It wont affect the outcome of the game, but you cant call chippy ones on the Bulls and let that one go.
Worry about your own team. We complained about ONE call.
Fouls are not why the Bulls are losing this game. They can't throw it in the ocean in this quarter.
Fouls are not why the Bulls are losing this game. They can't throw it in the ocean in this quarter.
I didnt say they were. But thats a call I thought they had to make.
Rose ties it....leveon cries about the no call down the other end
I probably would have called it.
Dont be an ass Mook.
They have to look at it, mostly because you have to get the clock and possession right. .7 seconds is a big deal.
What they need to do is not allow the players near the benches or the coach on the court in that situation. Easy fix
They didnt deserve to win with anemic shooitng in the 2nd and 4th periods. But with How Cleveland played, that was a game they could have stole.
Memphis is really beating them up. Mike Conley has been one of the most underrated players in the league for a while now, good to see him prove his worth in these playoffs.
I get some consolation remembering that OKC was down 2-1 to Memphis (and then down 3-2) last year. Memphis is a tough team, no doubt, but GS has reasons to believe they can still get this.
They forced Memphis into taking some really tough shots that amazingly went in at perfect times.. Randolph's shot clock beating turnaround, Gasol's near three, Lee's back breaker 3, etc. Klay and Steph both left points point behind at the FT line, which hopefully won't happen often but has actually been a GS issue for some time, one I'm sure Kerr will want to address next training camp.
Kerr has been calm and has talked about this being part of the process of learning to be a championship team... I hope he is already the coach that can lead them through this, but I'd he isn't, he's getting close to being that guy.
But uglying it up is the best chance the Rockets have in this series. Just gotta win this game and get the job done.
He's lucky Noah has a degenerative knee condition, Pau is hurt and Taj is playing like garbage otherwise his latest hijinks would be blowing up in his face again like Miami year 1 after the promises of 6 or 7 rings.
He's lucky Noah has a degenerative knee condition, Pau is hurt and Taj is playing like garbage otherwise his latest hijinks would be blowing up in his face again like Miami year 1 after the promises of 6 or 7 rings.
He outcoaches Thibs in just about every game.
If the Bulls cant beat Lebron playing one of his worst playoff series, a banged up Irving, and no Kevin Love - maybe the Bulls just arent that good.
LeBron has definitely had a bad series from a shooting perspective. As historically great as he is, his J is still really inconsistent.
But uglying it up is the best chance the Rockets have in this series. Just gotta win this game and get the job done.
Its just so incredibly frustrating to watch.
Houston is just outclassed. Wonder if McHale will be back.
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terribly inefficient shooting, turning the ball over all over the place.
He's lucky Noah has a degenerative knee condition, Pau is hurt and Taj is playing like garbage otherwise his latest hijinks would be blowing up in his face again like Miami year 1 after the promises of 6 or 7 rings.
He outcoaches Thibs in just about every game.
If the Bulls cant beat Lebron playing one of his worst playoff series, a banged up Irving, and no Kevin Love - maybe the Bulls just arent that good.
So he's lucky Pau is hurt, but the Bulls aren't lucky Love is hurt and Smith was suspended for the first 2 games?
I don't think they're missing them on purpose, and I have to believe they work their ass off shooting them.
They have to change it though. No one on the planet enjoys watching it, and ultimately that's what matters most. If the fans aren't watching because of it, you have to change it
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In comment 12280496 chris r said:
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terribly inefficient shooting, turning the ball over all over the place.
He's lucky Noah has a degenerative knee condition, Pau is hurt and Taj is playing like garbage otherwise his latest hijinks would be blowing up in his face again like Miami year 1 after the promises of 6 or 7 rings.
He outcoaches Thibs in just about every game.
If the Bulls cant beat Lebron playing one of his worst playoff series, a banged up Irving, and no Kevin Love - maybe the Bulls just arent that good.
So he's lucky Pau is hurt, but the Bulls aren't lucky Love is hurt and Smith was suspended for the first 2 games?
if you're talking about all the things LeBron is lucky about, you have to include the fact that he's lucky he was born to be a better basketball player than everyone he is playing against
Embarrassing Defense by the Rockets. Just pathetic. Hopefully they can take Game 5 at Home and make things interesting.
With the Clips up 3-1 and the Warriors down 1-2, I think the Clips have jumped up to #1 in the Power Rankings and are now the title favorite based on the odds.
They shouldn't.
A 10 year-old girl should be able to make the same percentage of free throws DeAndre Jordan makes. I agree with Pop... if you want to stop it, make your fucking free throws. Making them at only 60% would stop the hacking.
Now this has nothing to do with the outcome, because even though it happened to the Bulls - a part of me actually believes the ref did the right thing here. But if he saw the timeout signal, does he have the responsibility to call it - even knowing they had no timeouts left?
A fan wants me to call it, but the coach in me says he did the right thing. Very interesting to me.
Either way, I think Cleveland wins the series, but there has been some truly questionable things going on.
The Cavs should have lost last night and selective AKA bad officiating is the only reason they didn't.
If the ref called it, I wouldn't complained.
The ref didn't call it, I'm not complaining.
I am in the crowd of a no call there.
The Cavs should have lost last night and selective AKA bad officiating is the only reason they didn't.
Where is the gif of Dunleavy throwing his head back like he got shot, despite not getting hit in the head?
Memphis still has a chance because of how tough they are on the interior and on D, but this was their best chance and it looks like they blew it.
Wonder how the Grizzlies will adjust in the next game. Maybe play Carter more instead of Tony Allen?
Anyway, three great series tied at 2-2. Only Houston looks dead in the water.
We've got 3 great series going on right now. I'm really looking forward to Bulls-Cavs tonight at 7.
1. The only call they got incorrect, supposedly, was the Noah foul on James at the end of the game, which even I admit I probably would have called.
2. The offensive foul on James on Dunleavy was the correct call, and now there is video evidence that James elbowed Dunleavy (sorry Mook)
3. And of course the most controversial one.... they did not comment on the the timeout call because supposedly none of the officials saw it. Well this is where I got to call BS. The video is linked below. Scott Foster is the referee underneath and it looks as thogh he is shaking his head when Blatt comes out on the floor. Also, the referee at half court is clearly walking towards Blatt and looking at him as he is calling for the timeout.
Just some food for thought before what is suppose to be a wild game 5.
Blatt timeout - ( New Window )
The Gasol problem is two-fold.
1. We are worse offensively without him. A noah-Gasol frontline does not work against Cleveland, as they normally go to a stretch 4. But with Mirotic-Dunleavy at the stretch 4 and Gasol at the 5, the pick-n-roll offense becomes deadly.
2. The Bulls are so much better defensively without Gasol. Noah plays his better position. Gibson is a superior defender.
Its unlikely he will play tonight, so I can see Chicago struggle mightily offensively again. The Bulls really need Brooks, Mirotic, or even Snell to make some outside shots. Mirotic struggled mightily on some open looks last game.
Joey Crawford has the game tonight. In playoff games in which he has officiated, Lebron James is 25-3. Games that he hasnt. 40-51.
NBA is rigged!!! (just starting the flame for tonight...haha)
Joey Crawford has the game tonight. In playoff games in which he has officiated, Lebron James is 25-3. Games that he hasnt. 40-51.
Damn, LeBron has played in 119 playoff games already?
Where has the time gone?
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for tonight's game.
Joey Crawford has the game tonight. In playoff games in which he has officiated, Lebron James is 25-3. Games that he hasnt. 40-51.
Damn, LeBron has played in 119 playoff games already?
Where has the time gone?
I wish their was an edit to my post, because the numbers dont add up. He has played in 166 games!
"Clear" is not a word I'd use to describe anything about that video other than the font above it. Especially in full screen mode, where it looks like an Atari game.
But they should still be able to win this one at Home and make things interesting. Harden needs to gun for 50 and the fucking defense needs to show up for once.
I feel so ashamed :(
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Also, the referee at half court is clearly walking towards Blatt and looking at him as he is calling for the timeout.
"Clear" is not a word I'd use to describe anything about that video other than the font above it. Especially in full screen mode, where it looks like an Atari game.
To me it looked like he was walking towards the bench, but I think its clear he is looking at him though. I am pretty confident he saw him calling the TO. Like I said, even as a Bulls fan - it didnt bother me that they didnt acknowledge it.
LeBron gets the credit he deserves for being an all-time great, but he really doesn't get enough credit for being one of the clutchest players in league history.
There's a narrative that LeBron's a "Choker" because of his no-show in the '11 Finals (pathetic performance from him), but over the course of his entire career he has been extremely clutch.
Post-MJ, LeBron might just be the clutchest player the league has seen. The general public would probably say Kobe but LeBron has been FAR better in both big games and late/close situations than Kobe.
Rockets have been exposed especially their top players.
We'll see another easy victory again for LA.
It's a home game, only reason I say "should". Clips are clearly better and more battle-tested.
Howard's been worse.
He's been ok. Not great, but ok. Especially considering he carried the Rockets to the win in Game 2 with a monster 4th quarter.
The real thing that's been exposed when it comes to Harden is the fact that he has to play PG and SG on the Rockets which is too much to ask of him against elite playoff competition.
He's been bad by his standards in this series and is still having a pretty good series. That isn't getting exposed.
My beef with Harden is that the PG/SG dual responsibilities have made him way too cautious with his shot. He isn't even averaging 15 FGA in this series. He needs to be way more aggressive with his shot.
If Harden takes less than 20 FGA in this game, I would be furious. And by 20, I really mean 25. The dude needs to let it fly and the Rockets need to die by their sword instead of going out like scared bitches.
Not what you expect from your top player. This is a league where the top players are supposed to carry the team in playoffs. He has failed miserably for most of he series.
His level of play is well below what he was doing in the regular season. They have no chance without Harden playing an elite game.
I agree about Dwight post-ups, that's not the answer.
Nope. This is very reminiscent of 2011. Rose playing well. Outside Gibson, their role players cant do anything.
[quote] Right now. [/quote
Cant guard him with 2 fouls. Hes backing off everything as he is being posted. Thats why those 2 fouls in the first were big (and both were legitimate). Its forces him not to be physical cause a 3rd puts him to the bench.
Need Rose to play 43 minutes tonight. Get him back out there, because there is no offense. We are posting mirotic (who isnt a post player), Brooks is out of control. Noah isnt a threat.
If James dominates like this, they are just too good.
They were never beating them. We post Noah every possesion. Every fucking possession he gets the ball i nthe post and does nothing.
I cant wait for Thibs to be fired.
This is rinse and repeat since 2011. Orlando should look elsewhere for a coach.
Rose needs to step up. He has done shit since the first quarter.
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They were never beating them. We post Noah every possesion. Every fucking possession he gets the ball i nthe post and does nothing.
I cant wait for Thibs to be fired.
It would've been 3-1, of course they were beating them.
And now it's a 4 point game.
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In comment 12283853 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
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They were never beating them. We post Noah every possesion. Every fucking possession he gets the ball i nthe post and does nothing.
I cant wait for Thibs to be fired.
It would've been 3-1, of course they were beating them.
And now it's a 4 point game.
No they werent. Thibs is a fucking clueless coach. For a defensive guru, he cant stop a 4 guard offense. Never has, nor will he ever.
This is embarrassing. They have 4 guards out there. YOU NEED TO PLAY 4 GUARDS AS WELL!
Gibson should get a flagrant foul and that's it. Yes it was a leg lock but you can't kick the guy
Bulls werent winning this game or series. But that just showed how bad NBA officiating is.
Bulls will shoot it better and get the calls
You have to trade Noah and Gasol and get draft picks for them. And they shouldnt honestly think about trading Butler too. His value will never be higher. If the Lakers want him, ask for their number 1 this year. Keep Rose. Keep Gibson. Keep Mirotic. Keep Snell/McDermott. Get rid of useless Hinrich.
I guess Hoiberg will be their next coach, not sure how thrilled I am with that. And in the next 2-3 years, you jsut rebuild.
dep to Rose. Step the fuck up.
24 secondf violation out of a timeout. Classic Thibs.
Stop with the Rose is injured. He is always injured.
Getting down by a bigger score isnt a plus. And after I wrote that Rose came back in at 11:23 after they gave up a and-1 and turned it over. So he didnt rest long.
But Rose has to be a decoy now. Id go with Butler and Dunleavy.
He's 3 for his last 18. He has been great all series and Ive said so. Tonight he hasnt been. Still time though.
I call it a typical Thibs out of boudns play. Theres another one.
We throw the ball to Joakim fucking Noah. The last 3 out of bounds plays they ran resulted in a 24 second violation, an off balance three, and a turnover.
Thats why Thibs can be shown the door.
On the bright side, while Rose faded after the first quarter, it looks like at least 90% of his athleticism is still there. He's still incredibly fast and has a great burst on the first step. His touch at the rim and 3pt shot will improve with another offseason. Rose (as well as Mirotic) should improve next year, but I'm not sure it'll be enough to get past Lebron.
They just cant beat Lebron in these types of games. They got lucky in game 3, but Lebron just beats them every time in these type of games.
Fixed it for you.
But, Howard playing like this would be scary.
If the games within often don't, how does the series wind up as expected?
The question is, does predictability a good or bad thing? Shouldnt the best teams be the ones in at the end?
Hockey is just crazy with unpredictability, so you will get some higher seeds. Baseball only has 4 teams so its not like its some out of nowhere team that makes it. Football seems to be chalk to me a lot of time with the occasional Giants/Steelers that come out of nowhere to win it.
But if we put our homerism and hatred for teams aside - isnt the point to get the two best teams playing for the title?
In the other 3 major sports, you know if you get into the playoffs you at least have a punchers chance to win it all.
NBA is 4th for me and probably always will be. I enjoy the finals and sometimes the conference finals, but the first 2 rounds for the most part are a snooze fest for me in the NBA
So glad the Rockets showed some pride and didn't lay down. After those two games in LA, I wouldn't have been surprised if the Clippers won by 20 again. For the Rockets to win by 20 in that situation showed me something. A great performance from Harden to lead the way, 26/11/10 for his first career triple double in the playoffs. I fully expect the Clippers to win Game 6, but I'm glad the Rockets are giving themselves a chance.
35+ pt games in playoff career (post-1970)
Jordan -------- 75
Kobe --------- 39
Shaq ---------- 32
LeBron ------- 30
Kareem ------- 26
Hakeem ------- 23
Iverson -------- 21
Some great names on that list. First thing that stands out is Jordan's dominance as a scorer. Kobe is the only guy with even half as many 35+ scoring outbursts. LeBron might even end up with more monster playoff scoring outbursts than Kobe though, which would be amazing since LeBron gets underrated as a pure scorer sometimes. LeBron really is one of the great scorers in league history who just so happens to be able to do a hell of a lot more than score.
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But the games within often don't
If the games within often don't, how does the series wind up as expected?
Well, there are straight roads that wind up to their destination, ridiculously curvy ones, and roads in between. If the Warriors do wind up winning against Memphis you can say that the team expected to win did win, but the games themselves were a bit unexpected -- most people who saw The Warriors toy with Memphis twice in the regular season wouldn't have expected them to lose game two at home.
- Jordan played 179 playoff games, attempting 30+ shots 39 times.
- Kobe has played 220 payoff games, attempting 30+ 17 times.
- LeBron, in now 167 playoff games, attempting 30+ 5 times.
http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/35sebi/the_effect_kevin_loves_absence_is_having_on/ - ( New Window )
@ESPNStatsInfo
Most Games-- Outright Team Leader in Pts, Reb, Ast
NBA Playoff History (via ELIAS)
LeBron James 33
Larry Bird 13
Tim Duncan 11
The caveat is that sometimes a stat like this reflects more than it reflects ability. Michael Jordan just wasn't asked to rebound in the same way that Lebron is.
Also, being the leader in all three categories, like a triple double, or a Triple Crown even, isn't necessarily more dominant than excelling more in one category and falling short in another.
However, I think it's worth posting to show Lebron's ability to be a complete, well-rounded player night in and night out in the playoffs and that there is often a misconception about his career performance in the playoffs.
https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/598313276351578112 - ( New Window )
That reddit post makes a good point, without Love on the floor LeBron is going to be forced into scoring more. I believe LeBron's Usage Rate without Love on the floor is a Westbrookian 40% type of number. LeBron's going to need to average 25 FGA a game or something in that range, which means we could see a few more 35+ point outbursts these playoffs.
You're right that the stat doesn't mean everything because different guys are asked to do different things.
But the simple fact is that LeBron has consistently been asked to do more than any player in NBA history. And he just keeps on getting it done.
We have less than 1000 days of "GOAT candidate LeBron" left, maybe less than 800. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of watching the tail-end of his historic peak.
It'll be interesting to see if over the next several years he dedicates himself to refining his jump shot and his post-up game for when his age starts to get up there.
But his post-game is going to be dominant whenever he feels like relying on that more as he ages.
Watching LeBron age is going to be fascinating. Jordan didn't let us see him turn mortal, which is one of the main reasons his legacy is so perfect. But there's something impressive about a guy like Tim Duncan aging gracefully and making a monster impact past his prime. I hope LeBron follows in Duncan's path.
Now the crime is what is the punishment for the officials who clearly got it wrong? Are they suspended? Fined? They had a chance to review the play, and the three of them ALL got it wrong even with a slow motion replay. Just pathetic.
Oh and there is a report that the hack-a-Shaq is staying. Just foolish.
Gasol vows to play tonight. Imagining it will be only 20-25 minutes, but they need some inside scoring. Hoping it just goes to game 7.
that would be great. You're guaranteed that at least one long suffering fanbase is going to win it all.
He was fouled though.
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has a couple gifs now to provide us of Dunleavy flopping like a fish to the floor.
He was fouled though.
Yes, he was. But he was only bumped and he went down like a freight train hit him full speed. And chris r loves to post gifs all the time of LeBron exaggerating a foul, so he should do the same when Dunleavy does it.
Bulls cant stop them defensively.
If Delladova's was nothing, then so is that.
Any team that would pick Thibs up as a head coach is absolutely asinine.
Get fucked.
Kirk Hinrich provides nothing but plays the whole quarter. Great coaching. Outstanding.
0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and cant defend.,
Tony Snell, the Bulls 2nd best 3 point shooter, cant get on the court. Just mind blowing stupid.
He had virtually no trade value around the league. They weren't exactly shy about trying to trade him. And he fucking sucked for the Knicks. They weren't bringing him back next year regardless
Poorly coached. Not one adjustment made all series.
Not sad for Bulls fans.
Bulls need to get their defensive swagger on right now. This is it for Thibs, it would be a shame if his tenure in Chicago ended with an embarrassing defensive performance.
Noah is a shell of himself dinged up
Pau is hurt
Rose won't be himself consistently til next year
Butler is the only thing they can count on
It's not like they are working with these offensive juggernaut of pieces
I agree thibs makes no adjustments and his subbing patterns have been poor- but the team doesn't have a no brainier solution given the dinged up nature of their size
Bulls need to get their defensive swagger on right now. This is it for Thibs, it would be a shame if his tenure in Chicago ended with an embarrassing defensive performance.
Thats the thing. He is so damn stubborn on his ways, he makes 0 adjustments. The Cavs make a huge run every 2nd quarter because the Cavs play 4 guards and he plays two of the following 4 (Niko, Noah, Gasol, Gibson). One of those 4 cannot guard a Shumpert. A Jones. So they get wide open looks.
When Cleveland goes 4 guards, the lineup should be Rose, Butler, Snell, and Dunleavy. With Brooks giving Rose a blow when he needs one. And then Hinrich could give Dunleavy a minute here and there.
But to play Hinrich for over 13 minutes is just absolutely pathetic coaching.
Look at it this way.
Rose is playing like an all-star. Maybe not a MVp, but an all star.
Butler has done a remarkable job on Lebron outside game 5.
Dunleavy is playing well.
He has 4 capable bigs
And he cant beat a Cleveland team minus Love and a hobbled Irving. Why in the world would Orlando want him? Thibs isnt losing to Cleveland because he lacks talent. He is losing because of poor game plans, poor substitution patterns, and a failure to adjust.
If I am Orlando or NOLA.... I am looking somewhere else.
BTW, Cal has the New Orleans job if he wants it. But I think Thibs is going to one of NOP/ORL.
BTW, Cal has the New Orleans job if he wants it. But I think Thibs is going to one of NOP/ORL.
What I dont understand is that Snell is a good defender. And he is a pretty good shooter too. But he trusts bad veterans like Hinrich more. So frustrating.
No points, no points, more no points. Keep him in though.
LeBron is still the best player on the planet, but they're not going to beat any of the WC teams if he plays like this.
LeBron is still the best player on the planet, but they're not going to beat any of the WC teams if he plays like this.
Outside game 5, he has shot like shit and turned it over like crazy. Granted he is still doing amazing things passing and rebounding and defending.... but this wasnt a dominant Lebron series, and they are still going to win in 6. Scary.
Just no words anymore.
Huge game in the careers of Harden and Howard, I'd say moreso Harden. He's been solid in this series but I'd love for him to drop a 40+ pt takeover game like he did in Dallas Game 3. The Rockets will need a big performance from the Beard and I hope he delivers. But it's on the whole damn team. Show some heart and win and force a game 7 at home that no one believed was possible.
Huge game in the careers of Harden and Howard, I'd say moreso Harden. He's been solid in this series but I'd love for him to drop a 40+ pt takeover game like he did in Dallas Game 3. The Rockets will need a big performance from the Beard and I hope he delivers. But it's on the whole damn team. Show some heart and win and force a game 7 at home that no one believed was possible.
Wish the game started earlier. I need to stay up and see good basketball.
Whatever Thibs does, do not put Rose back in the game. The only thing that can happen is he will get hurt.
Just awful and mainly due to the Hack-A stuff. But also because all the games outside of one has been a blowout.
Hopefully this one is a classic.
Lebron outcoached Thibs big time this series. He said, I am going to play like shit cause it doesnt matter against a Thibs-led team.
Hahahahaha it's like, it's been rejuvenated
I'm not staying up for the 2nd half of this game because I know what's going to happen. If I thought it would be entertaining without this nonsense, I'd stay up and watch the entire thing. Instead im not going to give it a chance, and I would bet i'm not in the minority on that either
64-62 Clips at the Half. Blake playing like the MVP. He's really been amazing.
Good effort by the Rockets but it's been the 2nd half against the Clips where they've been blown out. They have to keep playing their game and keep it close heading into the 4th.
Come on Harden.
Griffin is just stupid good.
Wow, I'm speechless. Down 19 on the road in an eliminaton game in a building where you've been blown out twice... and you outscore the Clippers by 30+ over the last 12-14 mins?
Holy shit that was awesome. That was a total team effort. Josh Smith was amazing, made so many big shots in that 4th quarter. Josh won that game for us, thank God he's a Rocket (never though I'd say that). Corey Brewer and Terry and Ariza all played well. Dwight was a MAN down low, totally overpowered DeAndre in this game. Did it all with Harden on the bench too (great call by McHale).
That was nuts. On to Game 7. The Clips are more than capable of winning this game, but the Rockets have all the momentum and the home crowd. They'll need a stronger performance from Harden but damn I'm feeling good right now.
Josh Smith!!!!!!!!!!
EPIC chokejob. One of the most pathetic displays I've ever seen from a team on the brink of a series win.
They thought the game was over once they went up almost 20. Because the last 2 times that happened, the Rockets players quit. But this time the team really fought hard to cut that lead from 19 to 12 by the end of the 3rd. And then that 4th quarter the Clippers played like a bunch of pussies when Josh Smith started rolling. They had no idea what hit them.
But the Clippers just took down the Champion Spurs after being down 3-2. They've also won a bunch of Game 7s over the years. They are very much capable of bouncing back and winning this game. But the Rockets should be the favorites and I think they'll get it done.
But it's on to Game 7. You have to take advantage of the momentum and home crowd. The Clips are a battle-tested bunch that's going to be ready.
matt deladova is not going to bury 3 pointers all playoffs- he will get eaten up by shroeder.
Can't remember the last time the Home Team was the underdog in Game 7. The Rockets have just been getting disrespected all year and I hope they finish the job on Sunday.
Rooting for Memphis at the Grindhouse tonight. I want a Game 7 in that series. Hopefully Tony Allen provides a positive spark.
Atlanta. Schoerder is better than anything the Wiz have off the bench. Carroll can guard Lebron better than anyone on the Wiz. Pierce is too old and slow. Porter is to weak.
That foul on Teague was fucking AWFUL. The ball landed in his hands. It looked like Scott Foster who called it, and he flat out sucks as an official.
JR smith will get lost guarding korver around screens.
Atlanta's biggest weakness is on the glass and Cleveland is not a big team.
This will be the series atlanta does miss sefalosha. as basemore doesnt have the experience to guard lebron off the bench to spell caroll.
pj carlesimo
JR smith will get lost guarding korver around screens.
Atlanta's biggest weakness is on the glass and Cleveland is not a big team.
This will be the series atlanta does miss sefalosha. as basemore doesnt have the experience to guard lebron off the bench to spell caroll.
Good point with Thabo.
Milsap will also give Thompson problems on offense. Lebron will probably have to guard Milsap alot which means more wear and tear on his body.
Did you know that he was actually from Scranton? If not hilarious
What the hell is wrong with Scranton? Us Northeast PA folks are good people. haha
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He sounds like a midnight AM sports radio host in Scranton or something.
Did you know that he was actually from Scranton? If not hilarious
No way... Seriously?
He sounds like he should be covering local semipro wrestling.
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He sounds like a midnight AM sports radio host in Scranton or something.
pj carlesimo
That's PJ? Wow!
Maybe Spree's choke damaged his vocal chords.
thats no go. But they will count it.
I think its still in his hand
They got lucky. When Wall was dribbling the ball around, I thought holy shit, this is ideal. But it worked out either way.
Someone should go up to him and say "series, series, series"
If they dont have a timeout, have to foul.
Curry is only four boards from a triple double.
I couldn't agree more, santacruzom, they're a really fun team to root for. Doesn't seem like they have a lot of huge egos, either, or at least they're not on display. A lot of it comes from Steph, who comes across as pretty humble, or at least laid back.
You're going to have to wait until tomorrow for game 7, Sean. 330 tomorrow
But hopefully the Rockets continue to defy expectations and take care of business at home. After that Game 6, I can't count out anything involving this team. Harden can't no-show in this game and Dwight needs to outclass DeAndre like he did in Game 6, but more importantly the role players need to carry over that Game 6 confidence and play big in front of the home crowd.
I'll be rooting for Houston.
Memphis or San Antonio were the worst matchups for GS. Memphis needed to win game 4 and GS answered the bell and kicked their teeth in.
Just do it.
Just do it.
I think either way they end up a footnote to a Warriors final appearance. Having said that, considering how many injuries they've had, I'd bet the Rockets have a good off season and are even better next season.
That's normally true, but if Houston advances I'll be worried about how confident and resilient they must be after such a reversal.
Congrats Osi, see you guys on Tuesday.
Indeed... The Rockets should be able to stretch the lead back to where it belongs.
Horrible, horrible series loss for Clippers. Type of loss that defines the franchise for awhile.
So many critics predicted that the Rockets would collapse this season after losing Lin, Parsons, and Asik. So many people claimed that Harden and Howard would be exposed as team leaders this year. So many people called them a "regular season team" when they were killing it in the regular season. All I gotta say to those people... how my ass taste?
3-1 comeback including a legendary Game 6 performance. That was so friggin' satisfying.
On to Golden State. I know they swept us 4-0 this year but the last time we played them was in January and the team was dealing with injury issues. They haven't seen THIS Rockets team. I'd still be shocked if the Rockets won that series but they definitely have a puncher's chance. You can never count out this Rockets team and it makes me so happy to write that.
CP3 is an amazing player and he'll get shit for not advancing past the 2nd round. It must kill him to watch Steph Curry win an MVP and get to the Conf. Finals when Paul's been going after those two accomplishments for a decade now. But this series collapse wasn't on Paul, it wasn't on Griffin. It was on the Clippers' pathetic bench and frankly it was on Doc Rivers. First coach to blow multiple 3-1 series leads. Last time you couldn't blame him too much because it was McGrady and a bunch of bums against a Chapionship caliber Pistons team, but this time there are no such excuses. Blowing this series should forever be a black mark on Doc's resume. I still consider him a great coach but this was a pathetic performance by that team and he should be getting the majority of the blame.
Thank you Rockets. Let's win a title.
Matt Barnes is trash and I'm so happy the Rockets made him eat shit in this series.
So damn satisfied right now.
I'd be stunned if they got more than a game in the next round
I know what the Rockets are up against. But the Rockets are no pushover. They won 56 games despite tons of injuries to important players. If this Rockets team had even decent luck regarding health, they would've won 60 games easily. You can't count out a team that good against anybody, even a team that actually won 67 games.
I don't expect to beat the Warriors. They're an all-time great team. But the Rockets aren't the team with the pressure heading into this series. That would be Golden State and maybe their lack of experience finally shows up with a Finals appearance on the line. One can only hope.
I wouldn't go that far. Blake averaged 27/12/5 on 55% shooting in the series. In game 7, JJ Reddick looked too frightened to shoot or even handle the ball.
Anyway, fuck the Clippers. Blake Griffin is pretty much the only guy I don't hate on that team.
Seeing them choke last night was just great. Hopefully we wont see those die hard clip fans for another 20 years.
Dwight going for close to 18/14 and 2 blocks per game while shooting nearly 60% from the floor in just 33 minutes of game time. Dominating.
Blake was probably the best player in this series. But you can definitely see the flaws in his game. He's still not a good defender and he just runs out of gas at the end of games too often. And Blake really struggled going up against Dwight, he seems to struggle against those stronger than him. Great player though, definitely in the Top 10 and maybe the Top 5.
Dep, I don't think KWALL is a band-wagoner. I remember him back in the day as Elton Brand's biggest fan. He made a post about how Brand was Duncan and KG's equal (I never forgot this because KWALL also said Palmer was equal or superior to Peyton/Brady, those two opinions were so similar). For those brief periods in time, he really wasn't THAT wrong. Although I'd say Palmer had a better argument than Brand imo.
The thing I don't like about him is watching him settle for outside shots when he has inferior athletes guarding him (Like Diaw). I get it when there is a guy like Howard giving him space for the shot but he should just kick the hell out of inferior players and he doesn't do it enough (especially late in games).
He has some issues with length when he gets near the basket. This is where the short arms become an issue. But his game has evolved tremendously. He's a tough matchup for any player in the league.
He's made a lot of progress over the years. One of the best in the league. I'd put him in the top 5 right now.
I go back to the Danny Manning days with the Clippers.
I hate Dwight Howard more than ever. Bastard!
And Carson Palmer was destined for greatness before that SOB on the Steelers took that cheap shot at his knees!
7.6 Boards in the Reg. Season vs. 12.7 in the Playoffs
Blake's declining rebound rate in the regular season is really the one thing that I hate. He should be loading up on 10+ board games even with DeAndre on his team. If he can return to that level next year, I think he could make a real run at the MVP. He used to be all power, but now he seems to be too much finesse. If he ever finds the right balance he could be unstoppable.
And yea, Palmer is definitely one of the big "what-ifs" from the last decade. Still having a respectable career.
Yeah, KWALL isn't a bandwagoner. I remember seeing him post on NBA threads quite often when MOM was still here, and I remember some debates back then between the two, particularly centered around Shawn Marion of all people.
You can't use the infrequency of his posts on freakin' BBI NBA complaintfests as some sort of barometer to gauge his loyalty to an NBA team.
I'm a little disappointed the Warriors aren't facing the Clips simply because they're the rival to be more passionate about after last years' playoffs and the general animosity between the two teams. After seeing two series of admirable sportsmanship, I kind of wanted a series with some genuine bad blood.
But I'm damn glad the Warriors don't have to face Blake Griffin.
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Dep, I don't think KWALL is a band-wagoner.
Yeah, KWALL isn't a bandwagoner. I remember seeing him post on NBA threads quite often when MOM was still here, and I remember some debates back then between the two, particularly centered around Shawn Marion of all people.
You can't use the infrequency of his posts on freakin' BBI NBA complaintfests as some sort of barometer to gauge his loyalty to an NBA team.
I have a lot of posts on these threads for years in regard to the NBA than I do about the Bulls. So if you think my only contribution to this thread is to complain about the Bulls, you are mistaken.
All I know is that he came to this thread talking shit on Dwight and complaining about calls that went agaisnt the Clippers in game 5. Then have the audacity to call out posters who said the Clippers got some gift calls in game 6/7 of the first round. Seems like he is the type of guy who can dish it out but cant take it.
Ugh. No he isnt.
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Dep, I don't think KWALL is a band-wagoner.
Yeah, KWALL isn't a bandwagoner. I remember seeing him post on NBA threads quite often when MOM was still here, and I remember some debates back then between the two, particularly centered around Shawn Marion of all people.
You can't use the infrequency of his posts on freakin' BBI NBA complaintfests as some sort of barometer to gauge his loyalty to an NBA team.
Exactly
I don't expect to beat the Warriors. They're an all-time great team. But the Rockets aren't the team with the pressure heading into this series. That would be Golden State and maybe their lack of experience finally shows up with a Finals appearance on the line. One can only hope.
aside from Dwight Howard, the thing that scares me the most in this series is the inevitable huge disparity in free throw attempts. the Warriors don't get to the free throw line very often, but their opponents sure as hell do. I'm fully expecting some games where the Rockets shoot 40 free throws and the Warriors shoot 15.
Oh the Rockets will be in the bonus. The Warriors' opponents are always in the bonus.
There's got to be some stat page that shows teams' free throw disparities. There's no way the Warriors weren't one of the worst teams in the league in that category.
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might be better off giving Dwight a few layups than fouling him. Because you dont want to be in the bonus and Harden drawing fouls away from the basket.
Oh the Rockets will be in the bonus. The Warriors' opponents are always in the bonus.
There's got to be some stat page that shows teams' free throw disparities. There's no way the Warriors weren't one of the worst teams in the league in that category.
28th in the league. Opponents shot 3.7 more free throws per game. Only the Knicks and Magic were worse.
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In comment 12291688 dep026 said:
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might be better off giving Dwight a few layups than fouling him. Because you dont want to be in the bonus and Harden drawing fouls away from the basket.
Oh the Rockets will be in the bonus. The Warriors' opponents are always in the bonus.
There's got to be some stat page that shows teams' free throw disparities. There's no way the Warriors weren't one of the worst teams in the league in that category.
28th in the league. Opponents shot 3.7 more free throws per game. Only the Knicks and Magic were worse.
Nice work. Did you find that on nba.com? I find that page to be the most confusing thing on the internet.
Free throw attempt differential - ( New Window )
They also shoot the three ball at a 6% higher clip than their opposition. Next highest...3.9
That's just one of those stats that sheds a light into just how good their defense really is. I'd say that 4 Warriors games out of 5, there will be a prolonged stretch where the other team might be lucky just to get a freaking shot off.
The Rockets also need to dominate the paint. It's the one area they have a clear advantage in this series. Dwight will need to be a man in the middle and thoroughly outplay Bogut. I want to see a lot of Smith/Harden-Howard PnRs in this series. And hopefully the bench guys come through. Harden needs to atleast match Curry in terms of impact, which will be hard to do because he's going up against much better individual defenders than Steph.
Can't wait for this one, the Rockets need to keep fighting and claw their way to atleast 1 win in these first 2 games.
I still think the Rockets most clear advantage will be at the line: they'll be there, and the Warriors won't. Even at home the Warriors tend not to get to the line as much as they send folks there. I smell foul trouble early and often, and it's a good thing they're deep.
I'm geniunely pissed at the way the Rockets are being treated by the media right now. That epic comeback against the Clippers is 100% because the Clippers choked, and had nothing to do with the superior mental toughness of the Rockets. They called Dwight and Harden dogs for their entire careers, yet they don't give them any credit for the 3-1 comeback and getting to the WCF?
I want this series so damn bad. Every single person is predicting GSW in 4 or 5. I hope the Rockets take that to heart and play angry and focused.
And I'm kind of fearing the adoration the Warriors are getting. It just doesn't seem right.
Conference Finals Previews - ( New Window )
What does he mean "might?" Bogut and/or Draymond will be in foul trouble! Not to keep beating this drum, but for supposedly elite team the Warriors are still not exactly one with an advantage when it comes to fouls often.
I think the Warriors are going to skullfuck the Rockets, personally.
I think the Warriors are going to skullfuck the Rockets, personally.
That's the word I used! And ultimately I still think it, but I'm just trying to go on record as someone who called it if the Warriors get totally out-freethrowed.
Need to win Game 2. Hopefully Dwight is healthy. If he is, I feel much better about the Rockets chances in this series than I did 24 hours ago. The Rockets have a clear advantage when it comes to interior athleticism and that's going to allow them to win the "In the Paint" battle.
The Warriors won by 4 despite Dwight being hurt, Livingston having his best game of the season, and a lot of calls going their way. Rockets have to be feeling good. A W is a W and an L is an L, but there is a difference between a valiant Loss and a pathetic one from a confidence standpoint.
People who say Harden is unwatchable, go watch that 2nd half. He relies on FTs and foul drawing a lot but the dude doesn't need to live at the line to dominate and he proved that last night. He's the best ISO scorer in the game right now and put on a show to keep the Rockets in it. Forget unwatchable, when he's rolling with his shot like that there are very few more entertaining players to watch in the league. 28/11/9 with 4 steals (and good D), a line that hasn't been matched in the playoffs since MJ did it in '89! And Steph Curry was sensational himself with 34 points and clutch baskets down the stretch. Great MVP duel in this one, Rockets will need Harden to keep that up and Howard to get healthy to win this series.
Meanwhile JFK Harden hasn't been fined for flopping since November 2013.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2015/05/20/curry-flop-fine.nba/ - ( New Window )
terrible fine - they need to take it back.
I can't hate on him at all though. Great player.
Draymond and Bogut on the other hand, dirty Mofos. Bogut could be called for a foul on every screen he sets and Draymond is an old school throwback style of dirty. He tried to punk Ariza last night but Ariza is nobody's bitch. I'm so happy this team has Ariza instead of Parsons. Morey da Gawd.
But hten again, they may not have been spoon fed Smith and Shumeprt for nothing.
Thats pretty pathetic.
And now they call a handcheck 50 feet away from the basket. This is pitiful.
They have played really well though.
Mozgov
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You'd think the Cavs' big three is comprised of Smith, Mozgov and Shumpert.
They have played really well though.
Right, but when people talk about how it's ludicrously fortunate that the Cavs wound up with them on their team, they make it sound as though all three were coveted, franchise-elevating NBA power players who were funneled toward the Cavs at the expense of all other 29 teams.
Maybe they all now have the benefit of playing with a guy who can help accentuate their strengths and diminish their weaknesses, and if it hadn't been them it could've been other players, and then some people would be saying, "Oh, how nice of the league to give ________ and ________ to the Cavs, amirite?!"
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In comment 12295880 santacruzom said:
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You'd think the Cavs' big three is comprised of Smith, Mozgov and Shumpert.
They have played really well though.
Right, but when people talk about how it's ludicrously fortunate that the Cavs wound up with them on their team, they make it sound as though all three were coveted, franchise-elevating NBA power players who were funneled toward the Cavs at the expense of all other 29 teams.
Maybe they all now have the benefit of playing with a guy who can help accentuate their strengths and diminish their weaknesses, and if it hadn't been them it could've been other players, and then some people would be saying, "Oh, how nice of the league to give ________ and ________ to the Cavs, amirite?!"
Normally I would agree with you 100%, but they actully have done it without Lebron in the lineup. There have been times now when Lebron goes to the bench, they extend the lead or maintain it. Its crazy.
My opinion is that Lebron makes them better, but they are playing a bit over their head. Whats happening is that they dont do it every game. But one game its Mozgov/Smith, then the next game is Delladova/Jones.
Lebron, Curry, Harden, Davis, M. Gasol
2nd team:
Westbrook, Paul, Aldridge, Gasol, Cousins
3rd team:
Irving, Thompson, Griffin, Duncan, Aldridge
Only qualms I have would be no John Wall or Jimmy Butler.
Hopefully he delivers a big game tonight because they'll need him with Dwight banged up.
But you better watch yourself, son.
He's a total bitch, but it's vital for DH is able to go and be effective.
Lebron, Curry, Harden, Davis, M. Gasol
2nd team:
Westbrook, Paul, Aldridge, Gasol, Cousins
3rd team:
Irving, Thompson, Griffin, Duncan, Aldridge
Only qualms I have would be no John Wall or Jimmy Butler.
And Griffin being third team is a little off in my opinion.
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1st team:
Lebron, Curry, Harden, Davis, M. Gasol
2nd team:
Westbrook, Paul, Aldridge, Gasol, Cousins
3rd team:
Irving, Thompson, Griffin, Duncan, Aldridge
Only qualms I have would be no John Wall or Jimmy Butler.
And Griffin being third team is a little off in my opinion.
I think his rebounding numbers killed him. 7.6 is way too low for him. And Aldridge made 2nd team. I listed him as 3rd team also but that was Deandre Jordan.
It was tough to put Griffin over Aldridge when Aldridge scored over 2 points and rebounds per game more than him.
James Harden is amazing. All the haters can eff off.
7 seconds left, the ball in your best player's hand in transition and you blame McHale for not calling a timeout? He'd be murdered if actually did call a timeout and they lost. You couldn't be more wrong. Harden gave up the ball instead of being aggressive and going to the basket. That's what cost them the game.
It might not even go down as the worst charge call in the history of the Warriors!
The way Harden was killing it in the halfcourt, I absolutely would've called TO and set up a play. I don't trust the refs to call the foul on a fastbreak Harden layup attempt, I'd rather he have the balls in his hands in the half-court in a more structured setting with the game on the line.
He definitely made a mistake by kicking it out to Howard, but I think he was expecting a 3pt shooter instead of Dwight at the 3pt line. Really sucks that it came at the end of an awesome performance. He just has to grow from this.
That was definitely a frightening performance by Harden there... I actually thought he'd pull it off after that Barnes miss.
Yeah, I'm mostly kidding. I actually think that the reason they don't get to the line nearly as much as their opponents is because a lot of their scoring simply comes from open shots or drives with no defender even in position to foul.
That "charge" did suck though.
He actually surprisingly slept well from what I can tell.
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You have to get a shot off though. Osi probably got a shitty night of sleep.
He actually surprisingly slept well from what I can tell.
creeper.....
But James Harden has played like Oscar Robertson and Klay Thompson has played like a JAG, and the Warriors are still up 2-0. I don't expect Harden to shoot like this all series, so the fact that the Rockets couldn't steal these games with him playing out of his mind really hurts. And I also get the feeling that Klay is due for a night where he drops 30 and splashes in 5+ threes. There's no way the Rockets can win with Klay being a better player than Harden, and Klay is good enough to have 1 or 2 games in this series where he can be that guy.
But James Harden has played like Oscar Robertson and Klay Thompson has played like a JAG, and the Warriors are still up 2-0. I don't expect Harden to shoot like this all series, so the fact that the Rockets couldn't steal these games with him playing out of his mind really hurts. And I also get the feeling that Klay is due for a night where he drops 30 and splashes in 5+ threes. There's no way the Rockets can win with Klay being a better player than Harden, and Klay is good enough to have 1 or 2 games in this series where he can be that guy.
I think the Rockets are better off starting Brewer over Terry. Brewer is the best person to guard Curry. Let Harden play the Lebron role of point-everything.
Yeah, I probably dismissed the Rockets too much. I mean, it's almost as if the top 2 teams in an extremely difficult conference are playing each other, and that's something I guess I kind of forgot about.
Aside from Curry, the Warriors have benefited from essentially unexpected contributors in both games. You're right about Klay... he'll probably have at least one game where he drops 30+. He's always been a fairly streaky guy that way.
So I'd keep the starting lineup but I do think Brewer should be in the Closing Lineup.
For getting the number 1 seed with that squad. He was totally deserving.
Maybe they can do a round robin between the last 3 teams.
IMO, it's looking like another LeBron Finals Loss on his resume and that's unfortunately going to be a part of his Legacy. Rooting for him to go HAM and win if they play GS.
I really hope the Rockets win tonight. I have a feeling they'll get a lot of 50/50 calls their way because the NBA desperately need HOU-GSW to be a 6/7 game series. But I'm worried that the Rockets are going to lose this one. James Harden can't possibly keep up his level of play from the first two games, and Klay is going to have an 18 pt half at some point in this series. This Rockets team has so much heart and fight but I have the feeling that their season ends tonight. Hopefully they prove me wrong.
IMO, it's looking like another LeBron Finals Loss on his resume and that's unfortunately going to be a part of his Legacy. Rooting for him to go HAM and win if they play GS.
I really hope the Rockets win tonight. I have a feeling they'll get a lot of 50/50 calls their way because the NBA desperately need HOU-GSW to be a 6/7 game series. But I'm worried that the Rockets are going to lose this one. James Harden can't possibly keep up his level of play from the first two games, and Klay is going to have an 18 pt half at some point in this series. This Rockets team has so much heart and fight but I have the feeling that their season ends tonight. Hopefully they prove me wrong.
You're underestimating the power of lebron. Golden state doesn't have anyone who can guard him (Barnes would start on him and I don't think green is quick enough). If these role players continue this torrid shooting, they can best anyone. And they have 2 excellent rim protectors now. With thompson, mozgov, shump, delly and lebron.... they have 5 guys who can defend.
I would never discount a team that has the best player in it.
I gotta believe Kyrie is playing in the finals. Like Mook said, keep him out until then. Cleveland should win the next two no problem.
And of course since I am picking the Cavs, guys like Shump, Delly, and Smith will stop making shots left and right and turn back to their normal selves.
But could you imagine if Cleeveland never traded Wiggins? My goodness.
And trust me I am not discounting GS. But man, the Cavs are making things look way too easy. I knew they were the best team in the east, but they have been scary good lately.
Rooting for your team tonight. Want to see a good series as I think we all know the East is all said and done.
I gotta believe Kyrie is playing in the finals. Like Mook said, keep him out until then. Cleveland should win the next two no problem.
And of course since I am picking the Cavs, guys like Shump, Delly, and Smith will stop making shots left and right and turn back to their normal selves.
But could you imagine if Cleeveland never traded Wiggins? My goodness. [/quote]
The real question is which GM is worse, LeBron or Doc Rivers?
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of the top 6 WC teams without Kyrie either. They need him healthy to even think about beating GS. And even with him, they'd still probably be the 7th best team in the West.
IMO, it's looking like another LeBron Finals Loss on his resume and that's unfortunately going to be a part of his Legacy. Rooting for him to go HAM and win if they play GS.
I really hope the Rockets win tonight. I have a feeling they'll get a lot of 50/50 calls their way because the NBA desperately need HOU-GSW to be a 6/7 game series. But I'm worried that the Rockets are going to lose this one. James Harden can't possibly keep up his level of play from the first two games, and Klay is going to have an 18 pt half at some point in this series. This Rockets team has so much heart and fight but I have the feeling that their season ends tonight. Hopefully they prove me wrong.
You're underestimating the power of lebron. Golden state doesn't have anyone who can guard him (Barnes would start on him and I don't think green is quick enough). If these role players continue this torrid shooting, they can best anyone. And they have 2 excellent rim protectors now. With thompson, mozgov, shump, delly and lebron.... they have 5 guys who can defend.
I would never discount a team that has the best player in it.
Green is first team defense. He guards LeBron and makes him work.
Plus Green cannot check Lebron from the 3 point line.
When he's playing against a 37 year old Jason Terry yes.
No. I think he's the most exciting player, but Lebron is still the best player and I still don't think it's close.
I think the Warriors are a great team that is extremely well-coached and well structured. The bench is deep with quality players, but they play so well together, even with Steph on the bench. A lot of credit to Kerr. He was smart to go to Golden State and eschew the opportunity with the Knicks.
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The best player in the league now?
When he's playing against a 37 year old Jason Terry yes.
But what about all the games (and minutes against the Rockets) when he isn't playing against Terry and yet he'said still at the top of PPG in the playoffs?
no.
Guys like Jordan, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron were all the best players in the game because they were just as good defensively as they were offensively. Curry has a way to go defensively. Offensively, he is as good as it gets.
Russell isn't quite the shooter yet, but he has that same pace and rhythm to his game, is probably already the better passer. I wouldn't be upset if Mudiay shoots up past Russell on draft boards.
Guys getting 7-8 assists a game because they dribble the ball the entire possession is not as impressive.
Curry being the best shooter then has ever stepped foot on the basketball court is also overlooked--- the fact a team has to stretch and guard him the minute he crosses half court makes the entire offense that more deadly.
He is improving defensively but given his size he is never going to have the impact that the other greats had on that end of the court- that is not his fault that is called genetics.
I wish we could watch the Cavs play a good basketball team so we can properly evaluate everything. We will get to see that in 10 days when the finals starts.
You want this shit to end, then do something about it.
I cant defend the NBA anymore. I really cant.
If I am a Hawk player, game 4, Lebron is the target.
ISO
ISO
ISO
ISO
0 points. Why teams go away from the offense in the last two minutes is just stupid.
They got bailed out by the referee swallowing his whistle when lebron clearly got tripped.
This is right after he shot two horrific threes earlier in the OT.
Smith, Shumpert, and Delly have 49 points and 11 threes. And they are a much much better defensive team without those 2 guys.
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might be without some tools, Cleveland is also without their 2nd and 3rd best players.
Smith, Shumpert, and Delly have 49 points and 11 threes. And they are a much much better defensive team without those 2 guys.
Are you really trying to act like it's not a big deal to be missing Kyrie and Love?
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In comment 12299643 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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might be without some tools, Cleveland is also without their 2nd and 3rd best players.
Smith, Shumpert, and Delly have 49 points and 11 threes. And they are a much much better defensive team without those 2 guys.
Are you really trying to act like it's not a big deal to be missing Kyrie and Love?
It hasn't been so far. Thompsons defense and rebounding is superior to loves. And they have gotten awesome shooting performances from guus like shump, smith, and jones.
They haven't needed irving but will need him for the finals, but Delladova is a much better defender than kyrie. Plus with these two out, you are seeing what lebron can do as the point forward. As long as jones, delladova, smith, and shump continue to shoot the way they are.....they will be fine. They are on the verge of winning 7 in a row in the eastern semis and finals without those 2 basically.
against a good team it will be a massive detriment as talent and teamwork have to be offset by talent on the other end.
but with Love and Kyrie i dont think this series is 3-0 to start.
[quote] but absolutely not with Kyrie. There is no argument to be made that they are better off without Kyrie. [/quote
I dont think we are saying they are better without them, jsut not that they arent missing him. Now when they play GS, yeah they will need him - but they are cruising right now. If Kyrie can play in the finals at 80-85% and Shumpert, Jones, Delladova, Smith shoot like Allen, Bird, Kerr, and Reggie Miller - Ill give them a helluva shot to beat GS.
They are a much better team when they have a healthy Kyrie, something they haven't had basically all playoffs.
I could see the argument for Love. Not for Kyrie
The Bulls wont fire him until all the openings have been filled (supposedly the Bulls have a deal in place with Hoiberg), unless Thibs agrees to waive whatever money is owed to him if fired.
Lets just leave it that Foreman and Thibs wont miss each other when this is all said and done.
The Bulls wont fire him until all the openings have been filled (supposedly the Bulls have a deal in place with Hoiberg), unless Thibs agrees to waive whatever money is owed to him if fired.
Lets just leave it that Foreman and Thibs wont miss each other when this is all said and done.
Skiles isn't a bad hire considering how young the Magic are and how much they need their young guys to develop. He's a good choice if the intent is to establish a hard-working culture and build defensive instincts, and then replace him in a couple years when he wears out his welcome.
Why the fuck is this guy allowed to officiate?
No T was served. I hate Joey Crawford though. Glad his old ass fell.
More like die with swag, am I right?
... dammit I really wish I could come up with a better 'Swag Champs on 3' joke.
I'd hate for this to be serious. Steph Curry is the truth. Hoping we see him back out there asap.
Less Josh Smith now.
He created all of the contact, Green goes straight up, Harden flops to the floor like he was shot and gets the foul called
Fuck James Harden. By far the least enjoyable "superstar" to watch in the league.
Completely agree with JVG's suggestion that flagrant foul reviews should be done remotely by an official at the league office.
Oh, there's no question it's a flagrant two per the rulebook - it's unnecessary and excessive, case closed. I just don't like the way the flagrant foul rules are worded, because most of the unnecessary contact that qualifies as a flagrant one can be construed as excessive to some degree.
These Steve Javie segments make Mike Pereira sound like an Emmy-award broadcaster by comparison.
Fuck James Harden. By far the least enjoyable "superstar" to watch in the league.
It's a nice way of calling him a flopping bitch.
Missing curry for a quarter and coming back from a big early deficit, things could have been worse tonight for them
Awesome game from him. He's left no doubt this season that he's one of the best players in the game. Too bad he fumbled away Game 2 otherwise this could've been a hell of a series. Glad they didn't get swept, just gotta keep fighting.
Dwight on the otherhand. He is such a fucking idiot. He should've been tossed in this game and that could've cost us the season. Dwight is 29 now with 12 years of experience yet the guy still plays stupid and emotional out there. He is still probably the best Center in the league when he's healthy. But he really is a dummy that's tough to defend as a fan from a mental standpoint.
Dirk? If you build a good defensive team around a proper offensive talent it doesn't matter how bad individually they are.
Heck curry is probably one of the worst individual guards that start in the NBA, although he does have nifty hands and can anticipate passes pretty well.
But I don't think of Harden as a "proper" offensive talent. Its been beaten to death but you aren't going to get those foul calls in the playoffs. For dominating the ball and passing well, he still is not a true point. He milks the clock to get his own possession and passes as a last resort.
Thats good when his shot is going in and he is drawing doubles. He knows where the open man will be. Its bad when his shot is not going in like the other night when he went 1 for 9. For as many 40 point games he has, there are a fair share of middling performances. I don't think he can be the best player on a championship caliber roster.
Heck curry is probably one of the worst individual guards that start in the NBA, although he does have nifty hands and can anticipate passes pretty well.
This is the same kind of lingering preconceived notion as, "The Warriors are bad on defense." Neither is true anymore.
NHL Playoffs >>> NBA playoffs
He'll need Irving healthy to win it, but what a player.
Meanwhile Chris R still thinks this Cavs team is stacked.
He'll need Irving healthy to win it, but what a player.
Meanwhile Chris R still thinks this Cavs team is stacked.
As awesome as Lebron is, how many times does he go to the Finals in the past 5 years if he played in the West? Two maybe? Not a knock on Lebron - its a knock on how putrid the East is.
He'll need Irving healthy to win it, but what a player.
Meanwhile Chris R still thinks this Cavs team is stacked.
Nice random scarecrow call out Mook. Glad to see I'm on your mind.
LeBron just lead his team through the weakest the weakest conference has been in years. Hurrah?
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Heck curry is probably one of the worst individual guards that start in the NBA, although he does have nifty hands and can anticipate passes pretty well.
This is the same kind of lingering preconceived notion as, "The Warriors are bad on defense." Neither is true anymore.
Not really. Just because Kerr implemented a good team defense does not make Curry a good individual defender. The Knicks had a top 10 D when Chandler was healthy a few years ago, that did not make Felton and Melo good defenders.
GS has 2 current all defensive team players (Green and Bogut), one former all defensive team player (Iggy), and multiple great individual defenders (Thompson, Barnes, Ezeli).
I know GS is far and away the best opponent that they will play, but Cleveland made what was suppose to be a better East look silly. They are playing the best basketball in the NBA right now.
Not really. Just because Kerr implemented a good team defense does not make Curry a good individual defender. [/quote]
Likewise, just because Curry is a skinny player who shoots threes doesn't make him a bad defender. He played against a lot of upper-tier point guards this year, which he now guards - they no longer assign that duty to Klay. Let's just say that Curry wasn't exploited by any of them as this glaring, among-worst-in-league defensive liability.
I know GS is far and away the best opponent that they will play, but Cleveland made what was suppose to be a better East look silly. They are playing the best basketball in the NBA right now.
I sure hope you are right. Its hard to see it, but then again, Lebron James. I'm afraid its going to be a 4 game blowout. Cleveland is just so thin I can just see them getting iced everytime Lebron and Kyrie sit.
LeBron demoralizes Draymond Green. Curry is the MVP but Green is the leader of that team. GS will put a lot of different wings on LeBron but Green is probably the best physical match. But Green can't guard LeBron.
And as good as Klay is. He's soft and he's a guy who I could see choking on the big stage.
Klay and Draymond are both youngsters who've never felt this kind of pressure before. If those two struggle, the Cavs are going to win. If those two play well like they usually do, they'll beat the Cavs with ease imo.
Just keep fighting Rockets. We need another masterpiece from Harden and this needs to be a game where Dwight really takes over.
And as good as Klay is. He's soft and he's a guy who I could see choking on the big stage.
I wouldn't say he's soft. I'd just say he's still streaky. This isn't new, and it doesn't appear to be exclusive to playoff or big games -- he'll just as easily hit a 3 game stretch in January where he's shooting below 40% as he will in the playoffs. But it's not like he visibly wilts. He goes down shooting, and he goes down defending.
But the most important player in the series, outsode curry but it's close, is bogut. He has to be a rim protector and not be in foul trouble all the time.
I just don't know about Klay. Maybe I went a little overboard calling him soft and a choker. But there's something about him that gives me doubt about his ability to respond on the big stage. We'll see.
Bogut/Speights/Lee/Ezeli vs Thomspon/Mozgov is another one. Speights is just resting for the finals now but he is going to make a return.
Right now, GS is going small because Houston relies on all of their bigs (howard, jones, smith, capela). GS can just as easily go big against Cleveland for the opposite reason.
Cleveland only has 1 true center-Mozgov. If GS wanted to, they could force Mozgov and Thomspon to play 35+ minutes every game and tire them out.
If Cleveland goes small, they would be playing to GS's strength. No team plays small ball as well as the Warriors do.
Bogut/Speights/Lee/Ezeli vs Thomspon/Mozgov is another one. Speights is just resting for the finals now but he is going to make a return.
Right now, GS is going small because Houston relies on all of their bigs (howard, jones, smith, capela). GS can just as easily go big against Cleveland for the opposite reason.
Cleveland only has 1 true center-Mozgov. If GS wanted to, they could force Mozgov and Thomspon to play 35+ minutes every game and tire them out.
If Cleveland goes small, they would be playing to GS's strength. No team plays small ball as well as the Warriors do.
If cleveland goes small, Cavs will have a height advantage and GS still has no one to guard Lebron.
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Livingston on Dellevadova? Last year, Livingston was the most efficient post player in the NBA. Livingston got like 20 points in the 1st game of the series and scores bunches in small minutes. He has an 8" advantage on Delly. I want to see how that one turns out.
Bogut/Speights/Lee/Ezeli vs Thomspon/Mozgov is another one. Speights is just resting for the finals now but he is going to make a return.
Right now, GS is going small because Houston relies on all of their bigs (howard, jones, smith, capela). GS can just as easily go big against Cleveland for the opposite reason.
Cleveland only has 1 true center-Mozgov. If GS wanted to, they could force Mozgov and Thomspon to play 35+ minutes every game and tire them out.
If Cleveland goes small, they would be playing to GS's strength. No team plays small ball as well as the Warriors do.
If cleveland goes small, Cavs will have a height advantage and GS still has no one to guard Lebron.
Iggy? Thompson? Even Barnes?
Theres only one small Cleveland lineup. GS can play small with about 8 different guys.
Golden State is dictating the matchups in that series. If Cleveland goes small, whats forcing GS to play small as well? They can play Bogut on Thompson. Thompson isn't going to drag Bogut out of the paint. Play Green/Iggy on lebron, Barnes on Shump and Klay/Iggy on JR
The Hawks defensive philosophy has given up a ton of 3pt attempts this year and that bit them in the ass in the first 3 games.
nobody can guard lebron but they have a few guys that they can play 1 on 1 without it being obvious for him to get in the post and will not chase him on the perimeter
The cavs look better then they are because they have played against dog shit- if they beat the Warriors it would erase any/all of the finals fails prior for lebron iny view- if they lose well they should lose
You can beat cleveland with lebron being dominant. You can't beat them with their role players getting open looks.
If I am GS. I'd put Klay on smith or Shumpert. Don't let them go off for 4-5 threes. But at the end of the game I'd put Klay on kyrie because of length.
Bogut is the key. He can alter shots when let lebron drives.
Jae Crowder also had "no prayer to guard Lebron either". lebron posted 27 PPG and 6.5 assists and 5 TOs a game. Lebron can average 35 and 10 a game and I still don't think it goes past 5 games. I don't think he could get those numbers on Klay even if Klay guarded him every minute of the game. And lets not forget that Green is going to get him the most...
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have absolutley no prayer to guard Lebron.
Jae Crowder also had "no prayer to guard Lebron either". lebron posted 27 PPG and 6.5 assists and 5 TOs a game. Lebron can average 35 and 10 a game and I still don't think it goes past 5 games. I don't think he could get those numbers on Klay even if Klay guarded him every minute of the game. And lets not forget that Green is going to get him the most...
We will see. I think there is onky 2 players in the NBA that can check him for long stretches. He beat one in the quarters and Kawahi is already out.
Barnes is a lot stronger than people think he is.
The thing about Klay is that he's primarily a shooter. He's now more able to score in other ways than he was in years past, but still, he's a shooter first and foremost, then capable defender, then everything else. If his outside shot isn't falling I feel like his whole game suffers.
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Who can somewhat contain lebron is Iggy. Barnes and Klay are too small, green is too slow.
Barnes is a lot stronger than people think he is.
He's solid no doubt. Just not as strong as lebron. Kawahi is probably the closest to him as far as strengrh.
Curry's right side is apparently bruised and he will be wearing a sleeve on his right arm I believe. The Rockets have to be physical with him. If I were a Warriors fan, I would be worried about Jason Terry trying some borderline dirty veteran BS on Curry.
I just don't know about Klay. Maybe I went a little overboard calling him soft and a choker. But there's something about him that gives me doubt about his ability to respond on the big stage. We'll see.
I love Klay's game for the opposite-- I think he shows up every game to contribute even when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of a great third-down, possession receiver. He is going to run crisp routes all day (crisp motion, coming around curls, etc). He's going to keep the ball moving and give effort on defense. Sure, great defense can take him out of the game, but it has to be earned by the defense and the defense has to think about him all game because he can make it happen at any point. He's not about taking over games with the one big play, but rather, he's a grinder. I do think the one reason that it seems that he can disappear in games is because he isn't one to force things and doesn't have to be a high-volume guy, so sometimes it takes a catalyst for him to be aggressive.
Haha I knew he'd get called out on that. Literally every great perimeter player in the sport does that. Westbrook and Durant do BS on the perimeter more often than Harden, must be something Brooks taught them.
And I agree, that shit is awful to watch. But he has the sweetest stepback in the league and is the best one on one player in the sport. That part of his game is awesome to watch.
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but I despise watchign Harden. He just literally grabbed Iggy's arm, flailed, and got 3 shots. Nauseating.
Haha I knew he'd get called out on that. Literally every great perimeter player in the sport does that. Westbrook and Durant do BS on the perimeter more often than Harden, must be something Brooks taught them.
And I agree, that shit is awful to watch. But he has the sweetest stepback in the league and is the best one on one player in the sport. That part of his game is awesome to watch.
I rather watch the step back, cross over or just stroking it from 3 than the flailing. A missed step back can still be really pretty to watch.
Though it should be noted that this series isn't over yet.
Though it should be noted that this series isn't over yet.
Hey! I already said that!
On a side note, Tiki Barber should use that Thuzio company to sponsor "playing beer pong with Steph Curry" because I have to imagine he would be absolutely incredible.
You can beat cleveland with lebron being dominant. You can't beat them with their role players getting open looks.
If I am GS. I'd put Klay on smith or Shumpert. Don't let them go off for 4-5 threes. But at the end of the game I'd put Klay on kyrie because of length.
Paul trying to steal my thunder!
On a side note, Tiki Barber should use that Thuzio company to sponsor "playing beer pong with Steph Curry" because I have to imagine he would be absolutely incredible.
I am jsut teasing you. I have been saying this for years about Lebron. His best attribute may be his passing than his scoring. His shooting hasnt been that good these playoffs, but his teammates are banging 3s left and right. I agree 100% with OUR testaments!
Never mind that Jones jumped on his back, he never even had his hands completely on the ball to force a jump ball
Ariza has some ups!
Amazing how he could throw up a legendary Game 4 and follow it up with this nonsense. Sigh. Rough end to a brilliant season from him.
For a game where the MVP and runner up had off-nights, this still ended up being some very exciting basketball.
And now he's acting like a complete scumbag because they're getting their ass kicked.
What a douche. This Rockets team is so unlikable.
By sometimes you mean all the time?
If they can't see a shove by Howard, then they are incompetent. It was right out in the open for everyone to see.
What exactly are these refs doing? He should be thrown out.
Also, regarding Howard's foul. That was a flagrant, but I wonder how hard it is for big men to keep contact to the body on smaller players.
It's amazing regarding Howard. His decisions about his autonomy happened in Orlando right after Lebron's regrettable handling of going to Miami. Howard was the next big ticket. All he had to do to stay likable was to not do what Lebron did. Instead, he was even worse and pissed off everyone. At that moment, I knew that there was something wrong with his maturity.
Still the best Center in the game but he is maddening to watch sometimes.
The Rockets won the toughest division in NBA history. They finished 2nd in a brutal conference during the regular season. And they got to the WC finals despite missing 2 of their starers during the playoffs. They proved that they are tough and won't back down from a fight.
But they were never going to win a Finals with Prigioni and Terry as their PGs. Morey NEEDS to find Harden a legitimate backcourt mate, because Harden has way too much responsibility on that end and needs to get easier shots which a stronger PG would allow.
Overall a very good season that makes me proud of the team even if they didn't win it all. They aren't that far from being a truly great team, if they have better health next year I think they'll be the Warriors' best competition for the #1 seed (assuming they find a better PG).
Congrats to santa and the Warriors fans. Your team is amazing. GS and CLE have both played at insane levels during this post-season and it should be a classic series.
What the fuck?
But they were never going to win a Finals with Prigioni and Terry as their PGs. Morey NEEDS to find Harden a legitimate backcourt mate, because Harden has way too much responsibility on that end and needs to get easier shots which a stronger PG would allow.
I thought that was why Morey decided to pay Jeremy Lin almost 15 million this season?
Morey has been a really good GM so far but his biggest mistake has been the fact that he let both Lowry and Dragic slip through his fingers. Awful job.
Rockets need a real PG next year. Bev is all hustle but he's not a true PG at all, he can't run an offense.
Brian Windhorst, whose comments started the fiasco, even commented that he was fine when it was a Game 7, etc. He was just bothered when it was after every game-- and when the losing team's players are bringing out their kids after a Game 1 of the first round of the playoffs.
What the fuck?
Ear injuries can really mess with your equilibrium.
I want this transformation from inept to elite to happen to the Giants so bad.
If you prorate the 66-game '12 season, the number jumps from 7 to 9.
But 24 vs. 9 when it comes to 50+ win teams that they've defeated is an incredible gap between Kobe and LeBron.
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But they were never going to win a Finals with Prigioni and Terry as their PGs. Morey NEEDS to find Harden a legitimate backcourt mate, because Harden has way too much responsibility on that end and needs to get easier shots which a stronger PG would allow.
I thought that was why Morey decided to pay Jeremy Lin almost 15 million this season?
I think the rockets are going to throw draft picks at DEN for Lawson. Beverly is a good defender but they need a true point to dominate the ball.
None, and Thompson would have been thrown out of the game for being in Delladova's way.
You seem to have this weird idea that Curry has a reputation for complaining. Where'd that come from?
if he tries to play up on him it will get embarrassing quickly.
him being able to guard jeff Teague who you can go under screens on... has nothing to do with steph curry.
it will be comical to watch- I hope he does an Iverson like step over of tyron lue back in the day
Yeah, there's another thread.
My dream scenario is the Magic drafting WCS and hiring Thibs. Within 3 years time that team would be a destructive force on D and take over the East from an older LeBron.
Oladipo is coming
My dream scenario is the Magic drafting WCS and hiring Thibs. Within 3 years time that team would be a destructive force on D and take over the East from an older LeBron.
Oladipo is coming
Might be hard for them to take over the East if most of their players have been run into the ground by playoff time.
But if they draft WCS, the Magic will have serious serious potential to be a dominant team in the future imo. And Thibs is the type of coach who can unlock their insane defensive potential.
But if they draft WCS, the Magic will have serious serious potential to be a dominant team in the future imo. And Thibs is the type of coach who can unlock their insane defensive potential.
I still think he'd be a good hire for the Magic. Get them from lottery to respectability and even to good. I see Thibs as a "rich man's Skiles" type of coach. Orlando has a surprisingly good fanbase and they've dealt with a lot of BS so I hope they become relevant again.
He should be thankful they fired him when they did. The bulls could have easily waited until other positions were filled before firing him. They know Hoiberg is already on board. They really could have screwed him.
And Thibs isnt exactly innocent, he refused to talk to management since January, and burned a lot of bridges with players/management.
The Bulls probably didn't think it was too classy when Thibs told all of his grievances to Jeff Van Gundy who killed the Bulls on national tv multiple times.
My dream scenario is the Magic drafting WCS and hiring Thibs. Within 3 years time that team would be a destructive force on D and take over the East from an older LeBron.
Oladipo is coming
That team desperately needs just any above average coach. I think they are more talented than the Bucks. Oladipo, Harris and Vucevic are all capable of becoming 20 PPG scorers. Payton can become a better shooting Rondo and Gordon is a lock down defender. WCS can do wonders there if Thibs was the coach. Winslow could be another solid pick for them.
The road just got easier for the cavs if he doesnt play game 1. Even when cleared, he may not be the same. I said cavs in 6 from the beginning... if they can snatched game 1, you may see a short series Ala thunder.
Meanwhie, the Cavaliers, after starting off 20-20 with a new head coach, a completely new squad, several injuries and moving parts (including missing Lebron for a few weeks), finished the season at a blistering 33-9 record.
Obviously, the Cavs are worse without Love and a hobbled Kyrie, but they were a far better team once they started clicking than I think most give them credit for.
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Yeah, obviously there were issues between Thibs & management. But you don't have to totally burn the dude on his way out.
The Bulls probably didn't think it was too classy when Thibs told all of his grievances to Jeff Van Gundy who killed the Bulls on national tv multiple times.
It's not like JVG's the only member of the media to question how the Bulls have treated coaches over the years. And clearly there's a big difference between confiding in a friend and putting out a press release.
If you prorate the 66-game '12 season, the number jumps from 7 to 9.
But 24 vs. 9 when it comes to 50+ win teams that they've defeated is an incredible gap between Kobe and LeBron.
Interesting is one way of putting it. Incredibly misleading is another. Where to begin.....
1. As you stated, pro rated the 12 Thunder and 12 Pacers were both 50+ win teams. To not include them on this list is incredibly misleading. So we are at 9 now
2. The list did not include the Hawks series just played, as the graphic was posted before game 4. So we are at 10 now.
3. There is the case of the 2013 Indiana Pacers who went 49-32, only played 81 games due to the Boston bombing canceling a game vs Boston. They'd have been incredibly likely to beat a tanking Boston team and have achieved 50 wins. They were the top defense in the NBA that year. So now we are basically at 11 now, and he is past Bird
4. Everyone on this list is pretty much done. Lebron is going to the playoffs several more times. How can you compare his number having just turned 30 to the entire career of others? Of course he has fewer wins vs 50 win teams, he's halfway through his career. He should be in the high teens before it's over
As for Kobe... Do you realize how laughably inflated that 24 total is? Not only is the bulk of it comprised of his time as Shaq's sidekick, but some of it is even pre 2000 when he was a bench player. His list includes a win over the 98 Sonics. He averaged 3.7 ppg in the series
You can't really use win totals to compare across eras. Many 50 win teams from Jordan's expansion crazy, pre global 90s would not be 50 win teams today
This postseason will mark the 5th consecutive time Lebron will play the number 1 defense in the playoffs. The 7th of the last 8 playoffs overall. Unprecedented. He has played 7 series against sub 100.5 defensive rating teams. Jordan played just 1. And he struggled mightily shooting in the series. (93 ECF). Of the top 100 defenses since 1986 (sorted by defensive rating), Lebron has played 12 teams on the list including GS. Jordan merely 3. The east is not the West, but from an individual statistical standpoint Leron has continually run into as tough a collection of defensive competition as anyone.
And, despite ranking very highly in points scored in the paint.
While his shooting efficiency is down, that's just part of the picture. What's more important than solely his shooting efficiency is his overall offensive impact. And despite some shooting woes, his impact on the offensive end has still been incredible. He has the highest usage rate in the postseason by a clear margin, and the Cavs have the highest offensive rating in the playoffs despite the issues with Love and Kyrie. It is impossible for those two things to occur in conjunction without him having a monster impact offensively. Before the Cavs this season, no team in the shot clock era had won a single playoff game with 2 of their top 3 scorers from the regular season out of the lineup. The Cavs have not only won multiple games in that scenario, they won multiple more where Kyrie may have technically played but was useless
With Kyrie limited or out and essentially reduced to a spot up catch and shoot guy who can't turn the corner on a pick and roll, Lebron has had to absorb literally all of the playmaking duties. This has severely cut into their ability to utilize Lebron's off-ball skillset and get him any easy offense at all. Just about all of his own offense is ISO. He's not getting catch and shoot jumper opportunities (statistically easier looks), he's getting exclusively off-the-dribble contested jumpers created by himself. He should still be hitting a higher percentage of those looks, but he's going through a slump with his shot. He's not making rim runs as an off ball cutter (where he thrived in Miami) or as the roll man in the pick and roll, because they need him on the ball as an initiator way too much, he is their only playmaker. If he's getting to the rim, it is off his own dribble or not at all. And dealing with 2 sprained ankles and knee/back issues have robbed him of half a step, making it tougher to get there than usual. But he is still scoring in volume and is the initiator of everything they do offensively.
The offense is Lebron and a bunch of catch and shoot guys just standing around Lebron waiting for looks off the way he forces the defense to shift. If they miss, hope Thompson or Mozgov can grab an offensive board. That is their offense in a nutshell. Elementary as can possibly be, caveman basketball. They barely run plays anymore because they've had to scrap much of the playbook with the injuries. Theyre totally reliant on one man for all shot creation, and they're still wildly productive. The shooters have stepped up at times and they're going to need that to continue, but they eat off the table Lebron sets.
Its a shame the Cavs are dealing with all these injuries because this would be a great series otherwise. Lebrons supporting cast injury luck in the playoffs is beyond awful. That's 4 playoffs in a row now impacted heavily by at least one key injury to a core teammate
Nice to see you back.
My lone counterpoint is I think defenses are doing a good job defending his scoring, however its leading guys like Shump, Smith, Jones wide open for 3s. If Lebron gets more 1-1s, and scores at a better shooting percentage it may be due to weak side defenders staying home on the shooters. So I think if one percentage goes up, the other goes down.
Looking forward to the series. Not going to spend a second fighting against the feeding frenzy when the inevitable occurs. Cavs have like a 20% chance to win this series.
Looking forward to the series. Not going to spend a second fighting against the feeding frenzy when the inevitable occurs. Cavs have like a 20% chance to win this series.
I give the Cavs more of a fighting chance than most. OKC was a hot name too when Durant was insane, Wesbtrook was blossoming, Ibaka was a formidable defender, and Harden off the bench.
GS is still green when it comes to the big stage. They may be favorite, but Lebron is still Lebron.
They're also going to need to get a little lucky. Both teams are big 3 point shooting teams, and the three point shot can have wide variance in short samples (such as a playoff series). Cavs need to shoot it better than the Warriors, which isn't out of the realm of possibility even though it would be an aberration.
Awesome player whose had an awesome career. I'm beyond the point of giving a shit about MJ vs. LeBron comparisons. I'd choose MJ because his jumper was eternally wet whereas LeBron's J runs hot/cold, but LeBron is probably better than MJ outside of that one big aspect of basketball.
I'd give the Cavs more than a 20% chance. I think LeBron demolishing Draymond/Barnes/Iggy is a good bet, Draymond is a great team defender but he's not a one man wrecking crew like Kawhi. And although Bogut is a very good defender, he can be beat over the top and LeBron is a guy that can do that in his sleep. I'm expecting a silly series from LeBron. But as you mentioned, Kyrie is the key to this series for the Cavs. If he proves to be healthy and atleast comes close to matching Steph's scoring output, the Cavs would be in decent shape. Klay's health and performance is the key for the Warriors. I'd go GSW in 7. I think it'll be a great series, both teams have been playing at an unusually high level for a while now.
To make the case for Jordan over Lebron you basically need to take a magnifying glass to their careers and talk about a series here or a game there. Hype up the 2011 finals and try and form a narrative around those 2 weeks. You need to get really micro, because there is nothing in the macro sense of their careers that suggests Jordan was clearly more impactful than Lebron. Season in season out, game in game out. Not by the eye test. Not by any metric worth it's salt either. I'd throw peak Shaq in there too. Those 3 guys at their peak are almost indistinguishable among modern greats, and all brought very unique skills to the table. Depending on the situation you could make a case for building around any of them. Jordan was a bit luckier than the other 2. Injuries were an issue with Shaq. Injuries are a constant issue with Lebrons supporting cast (I mean this is the 4th freaking year in a row we are wondering about the health of Lebrons sidekick entering the finals). Jordan was luckier on both fronts, both with himself and his teammates. He also saw his team win 55 games and contend while he was playing baseball, I can't think of a single prime Lebron or prime Shaq team who could have done that without them. Jordan also operated in the diluted expansion era (6 teams added in his prime), he also played almost entirely before the global boom. All these issues and the fact that basketball is a team game (which unbelievably still needs to be repeated so often) are why simple ring counting is beyond silly. And if you want to be consistent with it then you can't consider Jordan the GOAT either.
The whole God like narrative surrounding Jordan today is just too much. I think he was the GOAT, but he wasn't some clear tier above anyone in the discussion
I then ask them how many titles Bill Russell one and ask them why that same rule doesn't apply and they immediately begin to stutter.
LeBron is a fraud. He hasn't won a ring on a team that doesn't have two other hall of famers. Jordan won six rings with won other HOFer.
LeBron is a fraud. He hasn't won a ring on a team that doesn't have two other hall of famers. Jordan won six rings with won other HOFer.
Michael Jordan never won a title without Scottie Pippen. See how that works?
Oh, and Dennis Rodman is a hall of famer. So 3 of the 6 were won with only one other hall of famer.
And the Wade LeBron got to play with, outside of the first year, was not a hall of fame level player. Nor was Bosh.
Remind us again how this Cavs team is stacked.
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he's got no bias against Jordan does he?
LeBron is a fraud. He hasn't won a ring on a team that doesn't have two other hall of famers. Jordan won six rings with won other HOFer.
Michael Jordan never won a title without Scottie Pippen. See how that works?
Oh, and Dennis Rodman is a hall of famer. So 3 of the 6 were won with only one other hall of famer.
And the Wade LeBron got to play with, outside of the first year, was not a hall of fame level player. Nor was Bosh.
Remind us again how this Cavs team is stacked.
Remind me again how many rings LeBron has with Clevland? TIA. He had to leave to form a dream team to have a chance at a ring and only returned after Clevland lucked into consecutive number one picks.
My favorite is how you came on a Yankee thread the one day to comment that Yankee fans had some strange obsession with David Ortiz.
Your obsession with LeBron is beyond strange. You might want to seek help for it, because when discussing anything LeBron you just totally lose your mind and never make an ounce of sense.
Put prime Pippen with LeBron and see how they do.
As Bulls fans like to say about the Knicks making the finals in 1994, they only made it because of a bad call, right? So a Michael Jordan-less Bulls team was a bad call, according to you, away from playing for an NBA title.
How have the teams LeBron has left fared? Let's see.
Cleveland, win lottery
Miami, miss the playoffs in a pathetic east.
Michael Jordan- zero titles without Scottie Pippen. Easy to stay somewhere when the team you're drafted by puts a top 50 all time player with you
LeBron is a fraud. He hasn't won a ring on a team that doesn't have two other hall of famers. Jordan won six rings with won other HOFer.
Whether you're willfully dense or just really that stupid to make such a simplistic argument, it's worthless none the less. 2 can play the no context game. Michael Jordan is 1-9 in the playoffs without scottie Pippen with 3 first round ousters. See? Oh, and Dennis rodman is a hall of famer too.
Now how about we talk about Wade and Bosh injuries during title years rendering both shells of themselves at times (Wades 2013 run was one of the weakest ever for a 2nd option on a title team in the playoffs). Let's talk about the fact that Lebron led those teams in scoring, rebounding, assists and was their best defender at 4 positions. That's a level of responsibility never heaped upon Jordan, nor was he capable of accepting that responsibility. The complete finger print Lebron had on those teams runs are a big reason why his 12 and 13 playoffs amassed more win shares than any playoff run Jordan ever had.
Lebron never played on a team that could win 55 games without him. The 94 Bulls gave us a window both into the level of Chicagos supporting cast, and the weakness of the league they navigated in the decade of crazy expansion before the global boom to support it
Still waiting on that Dunleavy video from game 4, by the way. Figured you'd have posted it by now.
And I like Jordan. I just hate cunt bulls fans like you.
And I like LeBron, too.
If it's all about rings, why is Jordan better than Bill Russell?
For all the "jerry rigging" any notion that he had more help of less responsibility than MJ is wholly unsupportable. And As a standard internet troll I don't know that you're in a position to call anyone else unlikeable. The fact that you are doing so on behalf of a grade A douchebag like Jordan is rich.
That definitely seems like the case. But the thing is, even that is sufficiently scary to a Warriors fan.
The offensive rebound thing really looms large. I hope the Dubs can minimize them.
They miss Love a lot though. I don't care if they win a title without him. People railed on him for the inevitable statistical decline individually, but within the context of the team he was a very valuable piece and his spacing was very key offensively. Thompson on the bench also gave them great depth. The Cavs were 38-3 this season with the Kyrie/J.R./Lebron/Love/Mozgov starting 5. Incredible isn't a strong enough word for that level dominance, that's a 76 win pace.
The Love trade was still a fantastic move for Cleveland assuming he stays. It only burns them if he goes. The notion that they made some terrible move is so vastly overdone. Let's not get it twisted, just because Wiggins won rookie of the year doesn't even mean he's an average NBA player as of now, because he's not. This was just an incredibly weak rookie class who saw everyone get hurt, and players more advanced than Wiggins (like Mirotic) played in situations where contending teams weren't going to blindly play them big minutes and deal with the rawness. Andrew Wiggins will probably be an all star one day, but let's be clear.... Right now he is not any good. Not by any metric worth it's salt. Not by the eye test. Only if you watch highlights and get wowed by a fancy finish here and there. He has a PER of 13. Can't shoot, can't pass, he is one of the worst wing defenders in the entire league by defensive RPM. (He has a skillset to be a big time defender one day, but right now he is light years away. Physically weak, raw, and focus has been called into question by every coach he has ever had). He was given full freedom and scored in some volume, but did so inefficiently. And that freedom was part of the reason Minnesota had the worst record in the nba. I'm not talking about the future.... But as we sit here now, Iman Shumpert is even a more useful piece than Wiggins
1. I think the loss of Love isnt as much as you think because I view depth as overrated in the playoffs. Your main guys are going to play 37-40 minutes because every game is crucial. Like you stated, Thompson is a beast on the offensive boards and has been huge in that asset. Also, he is a much, much better defender than Love. Green would have a field day against Love this series, but I think Thompson will defend him better. Yes, they miss Love's shooting - but if these other role players keep shooting like they have, do they really miss him that much? Time will tell. Also, Lebron at the 4 position has proven unstoppable. It really makes the other team change their defensive philosophies to match up with him.
2. I am a huge Wiggins fan. You have posted numbers to say else but I think he is going to blossom into a megastar. Once Kevin Martin got hurt and missed a huge stretch of time, him and Rubio really seem to connect and Wiggins was scoring 20 regularly. He struggled to start the year, but really picked up the pace to finish the year off. His shooting needs to improve, but so did a lot of great players. He has the potential to be an excellent defender. I think the Twolves can be a pretty fun team to watch in the next few years. Rubio, Levine, Wiggins, Towns, and Pek could be a fun starting 5.
I just disagree on them not missing Love much. He was a very key piece this year and even if they won a title without him (which I doubt is going to happen), their ceiling is way higher with him. This team was unbeatable with him in the lineup in the 2nd half of the year
I just disagree on them not missing Love much. He was a very key piece this year and even if they won a title without him (which I doubt is going to happen), their ceiling is way higher with him. This team was unbeatable with him in the lineup in the 2nd half of the year
I think Wiggins struggled because the team was awful. But imagine if Lebron was his mentor. I think you would have seen a much more capable player, better defender. Lebron's knowledge would have made him a better player right from the get go. But a part of me is happy he is in Minensota. I think if Towns can turn into a legit all star and Levine/Wiggins grow - that team has some early 2000s suns in them.
As far as Love, we will see. I think if he was there, it would take the ball out of Lebron;s hands more. And at this time, the more Lebron has the ball, the better they are. I am still giving the Cavs a very good shot of beating the Warriors. I think the Cavs defense is very underrated. Shump, Lebron, Mozgov, and Thompson are all excellent defenders. Smith is average, Delladova is dirty as hell.
It should be an exciting series. GS really needs game 1 to set the tone.
Curious to see how the offense will now change.
Thats not to understate the impact Love had there. Clearly they fell off a cliff after the trade, but their long term potential is higher with guys like Wiggins, Lavine, Deng, Shabazz and now most likely Towns. The potential ceiling for the Twolves is higher with these players than it ever would have been with Kevin Love.
I think Kevin Love is an all-star level player, but I think its clear to see that he can't be the best player on a contending team. He hasn't even shown he can be the best player on an 8th seed (albeit in the west). But watching Anthony Davis accomplish that feat in 3 years I think it shows that Love is better off on a team like the Cavs than going to a team like Boston or Phoenix. Its an unfair comparison, but it wasn't too long ago that Love was being heralded as a top 5 player and the best PF.
That just isn't the case. He was a great player, not elite, putting up amazing numbers on a mediocre team. I thinK Kevin Martin is a great comparison for this situation. Kmart was dropping 25 PPG back in Sacramento and Houston but no one considered him to be elite because his teams didn't perform, particularly because he couldn't do crap on defense, much like Love.
What does throw me off, however, is how people are saying the Cavs are better off with Tristan Thompson rather than Love starting. Thompson is a big guy playing against undersized teams. The Cavs have been playing ISO ball against Eastern conference teams. If they play this way against GS, they are due for a rude awakening. Love is essential for this team to have any shot at contending and I think we all will see this in these next 2 weeks.
Thats not to understate the impact Love had there. Clearly they fell off a cliff after the trade, but their long term potential is higher with guys like Wiggins, Lavine, Deng, Shabazz and now most likely Towns. The potential ceiling for the Twolves is higher with these players than it ever would have been with Kevin Love.
I think Kevin Love is an all-star level player, but I think its clear to see that he can't be the best player on a contending team. He hasn't even shown he can be the best player on an 8th seed (albeit in the west). But watching Anthony Davis accomplish that feat in 3 years I think it shows that Love is better off on a team like the Cavs than going to a team like Boston or Phoenix. Its an unfair comparison, but it wasn't too long ago that Love was being heralded as a top 5 player and the best PF.
That just isn't the case. He was a great player, not elite, putting up amazing numbers on a mediocre team. I thinK Kevin Martin is a great comparison for this situation. Kmart was dropping 25 PPG back in Sacramento and Houston but no one considered him to be elite because his teams didn't perform, particularly because he couldn't do crap on defense, much like Love.
What does throw me off, however, is how people are saying the Cavs are better off with Tristan Thompson rather than Love starting. Thompson is a big guy playing against undersized teams. The Cavs have been playing ISO ball against Eastern conference teams. If they play this way against GS, they are due for a rude awakening. Love is essential for this team to have any shot at contending and I think we all will see this in these next 2 weeks.
Thompson dominated the Bulls and they are anything but undersized. Gasol and Noah are 7 footers. Mirotic is 6'10. Gibson is 6'9.
Wiggins was fairly awful this season divorced from grading him on a curve for his age. You may look and see 16.9 ppg and be impressed, but literally 200 guys in the NBA can score at that volume if......
A) they were top 5 in the nba in minutes played, as Wiggins was
And
B) they were given full freedom offensively and a green light to shoot because their team didn't care about short term wins, like the Wolves
His efficiency was well below league average (.517 true shooting percentage, league average mid 50s. He has non existent playmaking skills, no feel as a passer and doesn't see the floor. He's a non existent threat off the ball because he can't shoot and space, and on a better team (like the Cavs) that would be his primary role. His overall offensive impact is absolutely not a net positive. Not even close. And his defense is terrible even though he has the wingspan and lateral quickness to be better when he fills out
I think he can be an all star in the league one day, but he is not any good right now. It's hard to make a case that says he is, outside of his presence as a sportscenter hero. At this moment, he's not even Iman Shumpert.
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Mirotic to Wiggins is fair to Wiggins. Mirotic literally had no expectations and he is playing alongside some of the best veterans in the league. Wiggins emerged as the best player on a team with many veterans such as Kmart, Rbuio and Pek. Obviously when a team is rolling out 3-4 guys that are rookies or in their 2nd year, the team will not win games and thus the advanced stats will be terrible for all players involved.
Thats not to understate the impact Love had there. Clearly they fell off a cliff after the trade, but their long term potential is higher with guys like Wiggins, Lavine, Deng, Shabazz and now most likely Towns. The potential ceiling for the Twolves is higher with these players than it ever would have been with Kevin Love.
I think Kevin Love is an all-star level player, but I think its clear to see that he can't be the best player on a contending team. He hasn't even shown he can be the best player on an 8th seed (albeit in the west). But watching Anthony Davis accomplish that feat in 3 years I think it shows that Love is better off on a team like the Cavs than going to a team like Boston or Phoenix. Its an unfair comparison, but it wasn't too long ago that Love was being heralded as a top 5 player and the best PF.
That just isn't the case. He was a great player, not elite, putting up amazing numbers on a mediocre team. I thinK Kevin Martin is a great comparison for this situation. Kmart was dropping 25 PPG back in Sacramento and Houston but no one considered him to be elite because his teams didn't perform, particularly because he couldn't do crap on defense, much like Love.
What does throw me off, however, is how people are saying the Cavs are better off with Tristan Thompson rather than Love starting. Thompson is a big guy playing against undersized teams. The Cavs have been playing ISO ball against Eastern conference teams. If they play this way against GS, they are due for a rude awakening. Love is essential for this team to have any shot at contending and I think we all will see this in these next 2 weeks.
Thompson dominated the Bulls and they are anything but undersized. Gasol and Noah are 7 footers. Mirotic is 6'10. Gibson is 6'9.
Noah was hobbled and Gasol and Mirotic isn't the toughest big around. I'm saying they need another offensive threat to keep up pace with these western conference teams. Thompson isn't going to give you any spacing and its going to be tough getting buckets in the paint when Green and Bogut are clogging up the middle. Lebron and JR's stepback jumpshots aren't going to win a title against the Warriors.
I don't think it's fair to compare Love to Anthony Davis who may be the second best player in the game already.
Wiggins was fairly awful this season divorced from grading him on a curve for his age. You may look and see 16.9 ppg and be impressed, but literally 200 guys in the NBA can score at that volume if......
A) they were top 5 in the nba in minutes played, as Wiggins was
And
B) they were given full freedom offensively and a green light to shoot because their team didn't care about short term wins, like the Wolves
His efficiency was well below league average (.517 true shooting percentage, league average mid 50s. He has non existent playmaking skills, no feel as a passer and doesn't see the floor. He's a non existent threat off the ball because he can't shoot and space, and on a better team (like the Cavs) that would be his primary role. His overall offensive impact is absolutely not a net positive. Not even close. And his defense is terrible even though he has the wingspan and lateral quickness to be better when he fills out
I think he can be an all star in the league one day, but he is not any good right now. It's hard to make a case that says he is, outside of his presence as a sportscenter hero. At this moment, he's not even Iman Shumpert.
Well all of that would be pretty important if the Wolves were trying to win a title right now. But they're not. They started 2 19 year olds. They are playing boys against the men of the league. I was impressed by Wiggins because I felt that he was too passive in college and he shown signs of asserting himself on offense.
Lavine fell really far in the draft because he had a suspect handle and was being questioned if he could create his own shot in the league. He showed that he is nearly unstoppable in transition and he had some games where he just went completely off and showing that one day he could be a dominant force in the NBA.
Shabazz was about to be labeled a bust but before he got hurt he was a very efficient post player and could provide scoring in bunches.
Right now its not about the advanced metrics. Thats not what Flip Saunders is getting graded on right now. All the young players on this team showed flashes that they are more than capable of hitting their respective ceilings that they had when they got drafted. You throw Towns into the mix and then give it 2-3 years.
How good were KD's, Westbrook's, and Harden's advanced stats in their first few years? Not great, especially if you go and look back at KD's. But I think Minny could be headed down a very similar path from what we have seen from some of these young guys,
I'm not making any declarations about Wiggins long term. But the gap between he and Love is vast at the moment. And Love figures to remain a better player for at least a couple years. Lebron prime seasons aren't infinite, so that's important
If we see more of that next year, I think you will have a perennial all-star.
I'm not making any declarations about Wiggins long term. But the gap between he and Love is vast at the moment. And Love figures to remain a better player for at least a couple years. Lebron prime seasons aren't infinite, so that's important
Oh gotcha I see what you are saying. For Minny I think it was a hands down win for them.
But for the Cavs, and the way they are playing now, I think it is hard to see Love being a better option than Wiggins the way they have been playing small. Of course that is easier to say now how Love isn't a perfect fit. I still think they will need him. You can't fault them for doing the trade because it looked like they needed another presence down low.
But if we knew what we knew now and could go back and decide again what to do, I think they would have been better off with Wiggins. If Wiggins played along side Lebron, he would have had a much more efficient rookie season. Maybe he averages 13 or 14 PPG instead of 17, but Wiggins is a great cutter off the ball and was not atrocious from 3 point land, especially towards the end of the season. Cleveland would have really excelled with Wiggins in small ball lineups and would be unstoppable in transition as well.
But people have fast tracked where exactly he is right now based on some context free boxscore stats and limited exposure, mainly viral vines or sportscenter highlights displaying his athletic brilliance (omg look at what he did to Gobert!). He would be the 4th best shooting guard on the Cavs right now though. I think Shump and JR both add more to a good team in 2015, and I'll throw in Kyrie because he's a glorified SG anyway.
But people have fast tracked where exactly he is right now based on some context free boxscore stats and limited exposure, mainly viral vines or sportscenter highlights displaying his athletic brilliance (omg look at what he did to Gobert!). He would be the 4th best shooting guard on the Cavs right now though. I think Shump and JR both add more to a good team in 2015, and I'll throw in Kyrie because he's a glorified SG anyway.
I wouldn't say he would play significantly more, but throwing in another hyper-athletic wing player is ideal for a small ball lineup. You take some minutes away from Delly and James Jones and give it to wiggins. The fact that Love sat out virtually every 4th quarter in favor of a small ball lineup shows what the Cavs think is ideal to winning games. They could have gotten another 4 to play some minutes instead of Love.
The PF position is the highest saturated position in the league in terms of talent. They still had Dion Waiters and they could've flipped him for a 4 that would play around 20-25 mpg. There is Brandon Bass who isn't as versatile as Love but is an efficient shooter and plays defense. Paul Milsap could have been tradeable at the time because the Hawks did not know how good of a season they were going to have and could have gotten some assets for his expiring contract. You could have gone around the league and found guys to play some minutes at the 4. Channing Frye, Ersan Ilyasova, Carl Landry.
2 things are clear... either the east is significantly worse then discussed or the cavs are significantly better then given credit for without Love/Kyrie.
Riley wants Wade to opt in so they can have flexibilty next year to try and go after Durant meanwhile they are going to max out Dragic...
Wade wants a 3 year contract and the Heat are not willing to do that...
Will be interesting if Wade really decides to leave South Beach...
I don't think that's any sort of significant series-changer. Green has had a few 20+ point outbursts this season where he's gotten hot, but he's never someone whose scoring the Warriors feature in a game. He also likes to pass more than he likes to score. There's really no "bad matchup for Green" that would lead to a huge offensive contribution from him throughout the series.
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which will add possessions to the Cavs and also he is a much better defensive player than Love so he can match up with Green, whereas I dont think Love could.
I don't think that's any sort of significant series-changer. Green has had a few 20+ point outbursts this season where he's gotten hot, but he's never someone whose scoring the Warriors feature in a game. He also likes to pass more than he likes to score. There's really no "bad matchup for Green" that would lead to a huge offensive contribution from him throughout the series.
I also don't see whats forcing GS to go small if the Cavs go small. Why not play Bogut on Thompson and Green on Lebron? If anything, that is a more ideal matchup for GS. I think GS has the ability to counter whatever lineup Cleveland throws on the floor. If Cleveland had love, however, there is more variability with the lineups Cleveland can use.
But right now, I don't see why GS couldn't dictate what lineups to use. I don't see how Cleveland can force GS's hand into playing any particular matchup.
That said, as a basketball fan, I'm disappointed that we may never truly know how great they actually are due to extenuating circumstances. If you are laying out their 4 biggest threats, in no particular order the 4 are clear. It's a healthy OKC, the Spurs, the Clippers (who ousted them last year, granted a year is an eternity) and the Cavs. They outright avoided the 3 teams in the West due to the fact that OKC stayed hurt, the Clips did the dirty work to San Antonio and then choked like dogs against the Rockets. And without Love, they aren't getting the Cleveland team who went 38-3 with their post trades starting lineup. They get a Memphis squad with Conley and Allen both missing time and Conley playing with a broken face when he did play. They get a Rocket team they match up incredibly well with, forced by injury to primarily guard the MVP with two guys who combine to be 75 years old (literally). And for the most part, minus the Speights issue, they'd had great health
This isn't to take anything away from them. But it's disappointing just as someone who was looking forward to some of these matchups. They were the best team in the league all year. I personally think the Cavs were a fraction better when healthy post trades, but that's just an opinion. Over an 82 game sample the dubs were amazing. But the red carpet has also kind of been rolled out for them in playoff time
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In comment 12309587 dep026 said:
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which will add possessions to the Cavs and also he is a much better defensive player than Love so he can match up with Green, whereas I dont think Love could.
I don't think that's any sort of significant series-changer. Green has had a few 20+ point outbursts this season where he's gotten hot, but he's never someone whose scoring the Warriors feature in a game. He also likes to pass more than he likes to score. There's really no "bad matchup for Green" that would lead to a huge offensive contribution from him throughout the series.
I also don't see whats forcing GS to go small if the Cavs go small. Why not play Bogut on Thompson and Green on Lebron? If anything, that is a more ideal matchup for GS. I think GS has the ability to counter whatever lineup Cleveland throws on the floor. If Cleveland had love, however, there is more variability with the lineups Cleveland can use.
But right now, I don't see why GS couldn't dictate what lineups to use. I don't see how Cleveland can force GS's hand into playing any particular matchup.
How would you defend their high pick and roll then. I mean you can go under and force jumpers, but if he is making them - you are at his mercy. Plus Bogut is always in foul trouble, ask santa. I think you are going to see Green guard Thompson and Iggy guard Lebron.
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In comment 12309736 santacruzom said:
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In comment 12309587 dep026 said:
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which will add possessions to the Cavs and also he is a much better defensive player than Love so he can match up with Green, whereas I dont think Love could.
I don't think that's any sort of significant series-changer. Green has had a few 20+ point outbursts this season where he's gotten hot, but he's never someone whose scoring the Warriors feature in a game. He also likes to pass more than he likes to score. There's really no "bad matchup for Green" that would lead to a huge offensive contribution from him throughout the series.
I also don't see whats forcing GS to go small if the Cavs go small. Why not play Bogut on Thompson and Green on Lebron? If anything, that is a more ideal matchup for GS. I think GS has the ability to counter whatever lineup Cleveland throws on the floor. If Cleveland had love, however, there is more variability with the lineups Cleveland can use.
But right now, I don't see why GS couldn't dictate what lineups to use. I don't see how Cleveland can force GS's hand into playing any particular matchup.
How would you defend their high pick and roll then. I mean you can go under and force jumpers, but if he is making them - you are at his mercy. Plus Bogut is always in foul trouble, ask santa. I think you are going to see Green guard Thompson and Iggy guard Lebron.
Sorry, a little confused, do you mean forcing Lebron to shoot jumpers? If you meant Lebron, well he is shooting 36% on mid-range jumpers and 18% on 3 point shots. So yes, as of now I think that's exactly what GS is going to try doing. Those inefficient nights might have worked against other inefficient teams like Boston and Chicago but throwing up long 2's on a consistent basis could make this a quick 4 or 5 game series for GS.
Festus Ezeli, believe it or not, has been coming up big for GS. While he is no Bogut he has been holding down the fort whenever Bogut sits and GS is not playing small.
I also think Kerr might try throwing Curry on Shumpert. Shumpert is not much of a threat to drive on anyone, especially a guy with active hands like Curry, and Shumpert tends to settle for low percentage, mid-range contested jump shots when he looks to score. This way they can even play Iggy on Kyrie and Klay on JR.
I also think we might see a bit more of David Lee. I think he's just the type of player Kerr would not play much in the earlier series just to let him off the hook and throw Cleveland off. We also are forgetting that Speights will be making a return sooner or later in the series, which is yet another problem Cleveland will have to deal with.
On switches I think Klay wouldn't be too shabby on Kyrie. However, I think Kerr doesn't want to wear out Klay on defense and guarding JR is far less tiring as he mostly just dances when trying to get his shot off. Iggy is also quicker laterally and Iggy isn't as relied upon offensively.
And on the flip side, this Warriors team is one of the best teams I have ever watched play, and I know all of the point differential metrics back that up. This combo just seems like a perfect storm for GS to just blowout Cleveland in several games.
Neither did Iggy or Klay Thompson coming into the league either. From how badly his handle was criticized in college, he has shown how good it can become if he keeps working on it. If he tops out as an Iggy-level player in production, the TWolves are still headed somewhere, and I think he is a much more dynamic scorer than Iggy ever was.
Wiggins was 6th in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts this year. No one can stop this guy from getting to the rim. And when he does get to the rim, he can make a poster out of literally everyone in the league as he proved in his epic back-and-forth with Gobert. His ability to get to the rim via his insane first step is undeniable.
And he's got the tools to have the best turnaround jumper this league has seen in a long long long time. It's literally going to be impossible to contest if you don't cheat on D. That will be his go-to move and win him countless playoff games.
.310 3P% -- .760 FT%
That's not good right now for a wing, but for a rookie that's not terrible. Is it really out of the question that he develops into a .360 3P%/.800 FT% shooter?
And although DRPM might not see Wiggins as a great defender, I don't buy that stat too much because Wiggins had the worst interior defense in the league BY FAR behind him. Pekovic and Dieng are garbage defenders. Kevin Martin is pathetic on D. Mo Willaims and Thad Young? Gross.
The Minny D was pathetic this year and it was because their roster sucks on D. Wiggins has all the tools to be a tremendous defender, his rookie year did nothing to stop me from believing that.
Nobody in the past 20 years.
Thats really drastic. He was put onto the worst team in the NBA. I understand how important advanced stats are nowadays but those numbers are useless without any context. If he was on a decent team, he would not be forced to create his own shots. Look how good he was when Rubio returned. Tony Allen could average mid-teens if he played 36 a game, I think thats way too harsh to say that he would be trash on a decent team. Its not like any scrub can average 17 a game even on a trash team in the NBA. Where was that player on the Knicks or on the Sixers?
Three of Minny's veteran starters were injured for a majority of the season. Kmart, Pek, and Rubio. When was the last time a #1 picked put up hyper-efficient numbers? Lebron? Thats not a healthy standard to judge a rookie performance by. Not even Anthony Davis or KD was able to achieve that. Its in these situations where the eye test can tell you more than whatever analytical tools can.
I saw maybe 15 wolves games this year. I would never go out of my way to watch them, it was always by happenstance when I was watching more for their opponent that nigh. He has all the tools to be a stopper defensively, but he's not close to there yet. His physical weakness is a real issue right now, and we are still talking about a guy who's kind of aloof. Flip Saunders had to dog him publicly for effort and focus, much like Bill Self last year. Upstairs this dude is way more Vince Carter than he is Kobe. He makes a ton of simple mental errors like losing sight of man and ball, jumping for pump fakes, and just general lack of effort at times
I think he will be very good. All my knocks are based on the present. I don't know that we are talking about a future MVP candidate though. But currently we are also talking about a guy who in 2015 shouldn't even be starting on a good team
When you hand the keys to someone that raw, you get exactly what they got. The worst team in the league.
I've been defending the Love move all year. I don't think it's nearly as bad a trade as people make it out to be. I think people gave Love way too much shit for his performance. His combination of 3pt shooting and rebounding is still completely unique and valuable in this league.
And yes, Wiggins is far from a finished product at this point. He wasn't a very good player this year. He's still just a boy and he definitely needs to get stronger. But I've also seen flashes of real strength from him, so I think with weight training he'll be plenty strong.
Love is a lot better than Wiggins right now, but it was still a bad trade imo. Wiggins is going to be an absolute monster, 27/8/3 + All-D type of MVP candidate. LeBron made a mistake with that trade imo. But if they win a ring this year, it won't matter that much.
I still think it was a silly forced deal to create something that wasn't needed... a big 3.
Also I cant contribute to any conversation when we are discussing Defensive Win shares and pace adjusted individual stats on guys---
I watched wiggins.. hes a good player who could become an excellent player.
Love for me is a good shooting big and gets compiler rebounds.
That trade is going to cost LeBron multiple rings. His window to win titles would have been extended by another 4-5 years with Wiggins
maybe nobody wanted it... but the cost and duration were not bad. and the larger point was the cavs got bailed out on the wing by the knicks... whether its a good deal for the knicks or not.
What a ridiculous statement. It would have significantly increased their chances of winning multiple titles, not just one. And I know they couldn't predict Love getting hurt, but he did not add a whole lot of value to that squad this year. I remember the game in San Antonio where they benched him in the 4th quarter and needed him to come in in overtime and he was down the runway and someone had to go get him.
His 4th quarter performances were abysmal.
That trade didn't make sense on any level, short term, long term, whatever.
Someone else easily could have stopped this if they took JR Smitth for free, Knicks couldnt give him away for free, they had to attach Shumpert
Blame the rest of the league, not the Knicks. It was a good trade for the Knicks considering the value Smtih had around the league
and for that gave up a prospect who can actually defend, something nobody on their team can do.
you can tell me the deal wasn't bad for the knicks but it certainly wasn't good.
love absolutely improves the Cavs chances multi fold in these 5 years, especially since he is way better than wiggins now and figures to be in the first few years. You can't predict he would get hurt by a suspension worthy loose ball foul
He was overrated before this year. He is criminally underrated right now. It's really a joke
love absolutely improves the Cavs chances multi fold in these 5 years, especially since he is way better than wiggins now and figures to be in the first few years. You can't predict he would get hurt by a suspension worthy loose ball foul
Lebron, unlike many other wing players, is capable of moving to the 4 in his later years. Kobe can't play a big spot and thus he is a big liability when he can't keep up with some of the younger guards. Lebron, however, can still potentially be a top 10 player just being a stretch 4, which can mask some of his defensive limitations once his athleticism seeps. Lebron at 38 may still be more athletic than your average PF in his 20s.
They dominated the playoffs without him so far. The thing is right now they are getting the shooting from all his fill-ins, which if they get against GS - they can give them a series.
I dont know the rebounding numbers with/without him but with Thompson and Lebron playing the 4, they seem to be rebounding better than ever.
"I couldn't give two shits if I'm cleveland what prime 25-30 year old Wiggins is doing in a half decade".
False. I think in 5 years from now, every Cavs fan, player, and management member will start to worry about whats next after Lebron. With Wiggins, that may not have been an issue because Kyrie and Tristan Thompson will still be in their prime years and that gives them about another 5 years of overlap after Lebron starts declining to still compete.
I think within 2 years, if Wiggins was not traded, he could've been at least a league average 3 point shooter, capable of playing SG and guarding opposing 2's, and averaging 15+ PPG. That would essentially be the production Love is providing. Playing Thompson at the 4 would replicate Love's rebounding production and give you much better defense. It would not be hard to sign or trade for a stretch 4 that could give you another 8-10 PPG off the bench.
Heck, Anthony Bennett might've been able to become a solid rotational player next to Lebron.
Lebron at 80% is still probably the best player in the league. Maybe Davis surpasses him but his teams aren't going to be performing at the level of these Cavs anytime soon.
Hasn't played on the post? Are you fucking kidding me? Have you not watched Lebron the past 3 years? Or even this year? The only shots that go in for him on a consistent basis are shots ARE his post takes. Miami won their 2 championships with Lebron at the 4 and Bosh at the 5.
No, I agreed with you, AT THE TIME, it was a no brainer trade to make.
But if we are playing God and can go back into time and redo it, Cleveland without question would do it. This team has operated much better defensively without Love and would have had more depth, more perimeter defense, AND more potential 5 years down the line if they did not go for Love.
And no, Lebron at 80% isn't the best player in the league. No one is. Hell Lebron at this moment in time has declined to a point where he is still the best player, but he's not on his own planet any more. Anyone who thinks he's as good as 09-14 isn't paying attention
And no, Lebron at 80% isn't the best player in the league. No one is. Hell Lebron at this moment in time has declined to a point where he is still the best player, but he's not on his own planet any more. Anyone who thinks he's as good as 09-14 isn't paying attention
I never said he is, but he still is the best player in the league. And yes, you are right, he can't play the 4 the whole entire season. But guess what, when the games matter he does. How many times did Love sit in favor of Lebron at the 4 when games got close? Almost every competitive night that happened.
So you're saying you'd trade one of the most intriguing 2 way prospects in the game for a 4 who is only a filler until the game gets close and its time for Lebron to operate from the 4 as well?
Not a chance. Get Channing Frye. Get Ilyasova. Any stretch 4 could fill in those minutes to give Lebron a break until the game gets close and Lebron needs to play the 4 for Cleveland to win.
Just like LeBron's J is streaky, it seems like his physical ability has become the same way over the past few years. During some months, he looks visibly tired and looks like his athleticism has really declined. But then other months the guy looks similar to what he's always looked like, making plays no on else on the planet can think of attempting.
LeBron worst season as a stay before this year was his 1st year with Miami. Once he got comfortable, he returned to a dominant level of play. I expect LeBron to be better next year than he was this year. I expect him to win the MVP again next year. So I'm not ready to count out Prime LeBron just yet, he still has 4 more years of this left imo.
But as a fan, I'm ready for it. The human body, pushed to the absolute limits of what is athletically possible, is not designed to withstand the rigors of an 82 game season plus the postseason. Maybe it was possible a generation ago when athletic training wasn't so hyper-focused, or when rule changes and analytics hadn't conspired (maybe not the right word - I don't think the evolution of the game is something that can be steered with 100% accuracy) to transform NBA basketball into this free-flowing athletic gauntlet, but we're here now and we see the results.
The teams that make it through the season healthy seem to fall into three camps. Either your team is bad enough that your players don't feel the need to go pedal-to-the-metal every game, or your team is a contender but your coach is willing to rest guys and sacrifice individual games in pursuit of the long-term goal (see: Popovich), or your team is the Warriors, who were so good that Kerr was regularly able to rest Curry and other starters for entire fourth quarters because Golden State was so far ahead. Almost everyone else either failed to make it through the season without a significant injury or promptly suffered one upon arriving in the playoffs. There's never going to be a season where every team gets through completely unscathed - injuries happen - but I think the pendulum has swung too far.
Set up a 66 game season. You play everyone in your division four times, you play everyone else twice. The actual length of the season can remain the same - maybe a week or two shorter - but there's no more back-to-backs. I'd also consider putting a season-long minutes cap on players, where no player can account for more than 3/4 of his team's minutes during the regular season, to help prevent teams from running stars into the ground, but that seems more interventionist (because it has a more tangible effect on a team's minutes distribution), so I would prefer to see the shorter season first.
I know not everyone is going to agree with this, and that's fine - I don't particularly expect a shorter season to happen anyway. But the 82-game grind makes it really hard to get excited about the playoffs in January or February when I have to wonder whether half of the stars are even going to be healthy enough to play at close to 100% come April and May. I think the league can do better.
You guys are under rating him so much it's absurd. All behind a talking point over 4th quarter playing time which is even greatly exaggerated to boot
But as a fan, I'm ready for it. The human body, pushed to the absolute limits of what is athletically possible, is not designed to withstand the rigors of an 82 game season plus the postseason. Maybe it was possible a generation ago when athletic training wasn't so hyper-focused, or when rule changes and analytics hadn't conspired (maybe not the right word - I don't think the evolution of the game is something that can be steered with 100% accuracy) to transform NBA basketball into this free-flowing athletic gauntlet, but we're here now and we see the results.
The teams that make it through the season healthy seem to fall into three camps. Either your team is bad enough that your players don't feel the need to go pedal-to-the-metal every game, or your team is a contender but your coach is willing to rest guys and sacrifice individual games in pursuit of the long-term goal (see: Popovich), or your team is the Warriors, who were so good that Kerr was regularly able to rest Curry and other starters for entire fourth quarters because Golden State was so far ahead. Almost everyone else either failed to make it through the season without a significant injury or promptly suffered one upon arriving in the playoffs. There's never going to be a season where every team gets through completely unscathed - injuries happen - but I think the pendulum has swung too far.
Set up a 66 game season. You play everyone in your division four times, you play everyone else twice. The actual length of the season can remain the same - maybe a week or two shorter - but there's no more back-to-backs. I'd also consider putting a season-long minutes cap on players, where no player can account for more than 3/4 of his team's minutes during the regular season, to help prevent teams from running stars into the ground, but that seems more interventionist (because it has a more tangible effect on a team's minutes distribution), so I would prefer to see the shorter season first.
I know not everyone is going to agree with this, and that's fine - I don't particularly expect a shorter season to happen anyway. But the 82-game grind makes it really hard to get excited about the playoffs in January or February when I have to wonder whether half of the stars are even going to be healthy enough to play at close to 100% come April and May. I think the league can do better.
I'm totally with this. The lockout season was honestly the best regular season I can remember. The end of the NBA season is just stupid, its hard to watch. Most of the top seeds are set, March Madness is on, and I could care less about regular season basketball. Give a week off during the Final Four and start the playoffs right after.
You guys are under rating him so much it's absurd. All behind a talking point over 4th quarter playing time which is even greatly exaggerated to boot
They are not. But for what Kevin Love is doing in Cleveland isn't good for him or for the Cavs based on how much they are paying him.
How is the 4th quarter playing time irrelevant? Its basically saying "oh we are paying you top 10 player money so we are going to give you a bunch of minutes in the first 3 quarters, but when the game gets close and we want to win, here is your spot on the bench".
Love would be ideal on a team that is good defensively but desperately, be that a team like Milwaukee, Washington, or Chicago. Cleveland isn't an ideal fit. Its a force fit. He still provides good numbers, but for the marginal benefit he gives over a mid-level stretch 4 in this system is not worth it at that money.
Problem is his jumper has always run hot and cold, and now he has to rely on it more than ever. He has absolutely lost a step quickness wise and some lift to boot. His dunk totals plummeted this season to career lows, and they were greatly inflated by early leak outs on defense (he basket hung a bunch at times this year) and outlet passes from Love. He probably didn't dunk 15 times in the half court all year. Shot attempts in general in the restricted area are down, and he's finishing at a far lower rate there than in recent years too. The days of him shooting mid 50s percentage wise are over
He's still the best player. But he's no longer totally without peer. This is post baseball retirement MJ phase
And we've probably already seen the last of peak LeBron. Athletically, he's still a force to be reckoned with, but he isn't the player who led the entire NBA in both volume and efficiency at the rim, and he will probably never be that player again. It doesn't mean he can't be in the MVP conversation for years to come, but if he is, that value will have to be increasingly a product of his skill and basketball IQ rather than being a sheer force of nature.
Kevin Love absolutely added value to Cleveland this year
And we've probably already seen the last of peak LeBron. Athletically, he's still a force to be reckoned with, but he isn't the player who led the entire NBA in both volume and efficiency at the rim, and he will probably never be that player again. It doesn't mean he can't be in the MVP conversation for years to come, but if he is, that value will have to be increasingly a product of his skill and basketball IQ rather than being a sheer force of nature.
Regardless of whether he is posting up or attacking off the dribble, Kevin Love is relegated to a stretch 4. When Mozgov or TT are on the court, that clogs up the lane and thus Love doesn't fit playing down low when Lebron is on the court. Love became a 26/12/5 guy operating primarily from the block, but Cleveland wants him to be a floor spacer. While he is still one of the best in the league in that, he is not worth $100M if that is what he is going to become in Cleveland.
Utah was sneaky good this year after ditching Kanter. I would not be at all surprised if they make the playoffs next year, especially depending on what happens in Portland and Dallas this offseason.
Utah was sneaky good this year after ditching Kanter. I would not be at all surprised if they make the playoffs next year, especially depending on what happens in Portland and Dallas this offseason.
Zach Lowe was proposing them to make moves for Lawson, which could be intriguing.
I want to see Love on a team like Washington. Washington has great defensive pieces around him, and him and Wall could become a great combo, and Beal as your third wheel. Porter is looking like a great glue guy in the Demarre Carrol mold.
Sorry, a little confused, do you mean forcing Lebron to shoot jumpers? If you meant Lebron, well he is shooting 36% on mid-range jumpers and 18% on 3 point shots. So yes, as of now I think that's exactly what GS is going to try doing.
There have been quite a few guys on local radio shows who've advocated that the Warriors just let LeBron average 40+ points per game all series if they have to and just don't double him often. They recognize that such a strategy is easier said than done -- most coaches or players don't stick with it once that player has scored 4-5 trips down. But the Warriors might just be nervy enough to try it.
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Sorry, a little confused, do you mean forcing Lebron to shoot jumpers? If you meant Lebron, well he is shooting 36% on mid-range jumpers and 18% on 3 point shots. So yes, as of now I think that's exactly what GS is going to try doing.
There have been quite a few guys on local radio shows who've advocated that the Warriors just let LeBron average 40+ points per game all series if they have to and just don't double him often. They recognize that such a strategy is easier said than done -- most coaches or players don't stick with it once that player has scored 4-5 trips down. But the Warriors might just be nervy enough to try it.
PaulBlakeTSU and I said the same thing. Let lebron get his, limit his teammates. I think it's widely known that lebron best skill is his passing. I think there is some merit to that thinking.
The results have been about as you expected. Lebron has gone off against Boston (when rivers was coach) from a pure scoring standpoint over the years. Some of his highest scoring playoff games against them too, dropped 45 twice at the Boston garden. Averaging over 30 per game against them in a couple series. He averaged 38 per game very efficiently in that epic 09 eastern final vs van gundys magic. But the result on his shooters have been as expected. They've generally not gotten off whatsoever in these handful of series I am discussing
They traded Wiggins for a loser stat padder. They did not get a grwat player by any stretch, and he relly was not that important of a player when he did play this year.
Keeping Woggins would have not only extended their window, byt may have opened it up in the present, too. Ill bet next year Wiggins would have been more valuable to Cavs than Love.
The trade made sero sense on any level. Kevin Love is a loser.
With Wiggins, they are still in the finals and would have Irving/Wiggins duo for the next 10 years. However, they felt like Lebron had 3-4 years left, and try to maximize it.
If they win 2 titles, it was worth it. If they dont and Lebron doesnt win 1 in Cleveland, then it was a bad trade.
LeBron will have zero shot to win titles at that age now. And that Love trade did not dramatically increase their chances this year.
And the whole fantasy with Lebron at age 36-37 leading title contending teams next to a Wiggins is just that. Basketball players are not NFL qbs, nor are they baseball players. Lebron is more likely than not to be a mess physical at that age. If he was still playing on a high level (and I mean legit high level, not Jordan wizard stat padding) he would be in unbelievably small company. And when you take mileage into account to date, the company is non existent. By the time Lebron is 34/35 he will be pretty much in uncharted territory career minutes wise, including plAyoffs
Their biggest loss this season was Kevin Love. Even with the injuries they probably win double digit more games without that trade, and that's being conservative. That's how much more value he adds to a team than Wiggins at this time. Last year Love dragged a team that was despicably bad with him off the court to a top 10 SRS. They were just unlucky to be in the West and lost a ton of close heartbreakers on top of it. There's no way in hell they go 16-66 with Love in 2015
Giannis (95 dunks in 81 games)
LeBron (88 dunks in 69 games)
Wiggins (79 dunks in 82 games)
Those were the Top 3 wing dunkers in the league this year. No one else had 70+ (Barnes and Iggy were 4th and 5th with 66 and 64 respectively, sneaky athletic role playing wings on that GSW team).
On a per game basis, he's still the most prolific dunking wing player in the sport. And iirc, his dunk totals were absurdly low before his "vacation". Ever since he came back from that vacay, I'm pretty sure he's been dunking at a 120+ per 80 pace which isn't far off from his usual number. He's still a freak of nature even if he's not an immortal anymore.
Audible mentioned that LeBron is no longer the leader in volume + efficiency at the rim and will never be that guy again...
LeBron's Rank in FGM + FG% Inside of 3ft since '09*:
09: 1st in FGM -- 3rd in FG%
10: 1st in FGM -- 2nd in FG%
11: 5th in FGM -- 12th in FG%
12: 2nd in FGM -- 4th in FG%
13: 1st in FGM -- 2nd in FG%
14: 1st in FGM -- 2nd in FG%
15: 6th in FGM -- 11th in FG%
*FG% only includes those in the Top 100 in terms of FGM
So yea, there does seem to be a slight dip in LeBron's ability to finish at the rim. But he was still absolutely near the top of the league at this area of the game still. And like I mentioned earlier, I don't think it would be out of the question for LeBron to have a better year next season due to the fact that he's still feeling his way on this new Cleveland team. It's not a coincidence that LeBron's worst season in terms of finishing at the rim (and in general) before this one was his 1st season in Miami.
LeBron can still finish with the best of them. He may have lost a half-step and he may not have energy reserves like he used to, but he's still the best athlete in the sport.
The real problem with LeBron is that after a decade of working on his shot, he's still a mediocre shooter. He was a 71% FT shooter this year! That's just pathetic for what it should be at this point in his career. He should be an 80-85% FT shooter and be automatic from the mid-range. But all those years of practice and the man has actually gotten worse with his shot at the line, and not really improved much with his mid-range and deep shooting.
LeBron's J has been just pathetic in this year's playoffs. Sure he's had a slight athletic decline this year, but he's still the most athletic player in the sport. The real story with him is his Jumper being a huge hole in his overall skills package (the GOAT skills package outside of the Jumper).
The Warriors are going to dare LeBron to shoot. And he's going to need to make them. He's already lost 2 Finals where his lack of confidence in and inability to make his Jumper ultimately killed his team. He cannot make it 3x with that same hole in his game costing him the ultimte prize.
The real story with LeBron is his Jumper. He needs to hit his fucking jumper in this series or else the Warriors will annihilate the Cavs.
I have watched and played a lot of basketball and not everything going on in the current nba is goat this and goat that.
There is barely one center in the nba that consistently block a shot but we hear about goat defense- half the guys can't even do a proper shell drill--- then golden state wins 67 games and they are a goat team- the playoffs have been barely watchable- I hate hockey but have enjoyed that more- goat this goat that- how bout just watch the game and judge based on what we are seeing not based on advanced stats every discussion.
At one point late this year he was leading the Cavs in first quarter scoring average. I'm not sure if he finished the year doing that, but as of post all star break he was. And that's not insignificant, as the first quarter just happens to be the most predictive quarter in an nba game. They would always look to get him off early in the game and get him looks to establish spacing that teams have to respect, giving Lebron and Kyrie the room to operate down the stretch. Not much different than how Bosh was used in Miami. In crunch time he didn't shoot it well this year, and he could go through stretches where he was phased out of the offense as Lebron and Kyrie take turns. But him merely being out there dragged defenders out of the paint for them
Love has gone from overrated to underrated with record speed. People spending all this time on what he's not, without seeing he's still currently such a more valuable piece than Wiggins it's disgusting. They aren't comparable in 2015
Does using all-time instead of GOAT really make things so much better? GOAT's more fun to use than all-time, especially when it makes sense.
LeBron is arguably the GOAT athlete to ever step foot on an NBA court
Curry/Thompson is the GOAT shooting backcourt in NBA history by a mile
GOAT
You understand my point though I think.
For instance your rockets. We hear about the great western conference as some goat conference but the playoffs sucked and these rockets made the conf finals and would get swept by the
If 90s rockets so fast it would be disgusting.
So are things right now really that great? Unclear. Statistics are better because the athlete is more trained- the basketball teams- a few are.
I base most of what I believe on my eyes too. I only use stats to back up positions my eyes hold rather than stating something without support.
Amazing skill to acquire
You understand my point though I think.
For instance your rockets. We hear about the great western conference as some goat conference but the playoffs sucked and these rockets made the conf finals and would get swept by the
If 90s rockets so fast it would be disgusting.
So are things right now really that great? Unclear. Statistics are better because the athlete is more trained- the basketball teams- a few are.
It's such a different game. The 3pt line has completely changed the way the game works.
The 3pt line was introduced in the NBA in 1980. Most playgrounds probably didn't have a 3pt line until years after that. So basically only players born after 1980 or so are used to playing on courts with 3pt lines as kids.
If you transported those old shcool teams in today's league and had them play the same style, they'd get destroyed by today's teams who know how to utlize the 3pt line and understand floor spacing at a far greater level.
Ironic that you used the '95 Rockets as an example though, as they are one of the teams that were way ahead of the time from a floor spacing aspect. They understood that the best way to give Hakeem space to operate was giving him shooters who'd kill opponents for double teams.
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I love your bball posting
You understand my point though I think.
For instance your rockets. We hear about the great western conference as some goat conference but the playoffs sucked and these rockets made the conf finals and would get swept by the
If 90s rockets so fast it would be disgusting.
So are things right now really that great? Unclear. Statistics are better because the athlete is more trained- the basketball teams- a few are.
It's such a different game. The 3pt line has completely changed the way the game works.
The 3pt line was introduced in the NBA in 1980. Most playgrounds probably didn't have a 3pt line until years after that. So basically only players born after 1980 or so are used to playing on courts with 3pt lines as kids.
If you transported those old shcool teams in today's league and had them play the same style, they'd get destroyed by today's teams who know how to utlize the 3pt line and understand floor spacing at a far greater level.
Ironic that you used the '95 Rockets as an example though, as they are one of the teams that were way ahead of the time from a floor spacing aspect. They understood that the best way to give Hakeem space to operate was giving him shooters who'd kill opponents for double teams.
But you would have to let them play their style of game as well. Lets face it, the game was much more physical in the 80s and 90s and you wouldnt be flopping around like the stars do today in order to get calls.
Now today's teams in a 70s pre-3pt line environment? Different story. The Warriors would be demolished by the Reed/Frazier Knicks in that setting.
It should be of surprise to no one that the 5 worst free throw shooting seasons since the merger, as well as 6 of the top 7 worst, all occurred during the 1990s. A time where the league clearly expanded well beyond the talent pool that they had to support it, and the average plAyer was probably worse than at any point in the last 35 years. They added 6 teams in the heart of Jordan's prime, at a time where the global talent base was bArely existent.
There was just something about those players. There intensity and desire to win exceeded their skill. And I am not trying to diminish todays players whatsoever. I just think if you interchanged the 80s with now, the game would be better to watch.
I checked out the rookies of the year in the 80s(and Bird in 79), these guys were legitimate all-star candidates and MVP type players right from the get go.
And while there are more foriegn born players in the NBA now, its still dominated by American born players. There were only 2 foreign born players on the All-NBA teams this year (gasol brothers), last year there were only 2 (not including Noah who grew up in USA). Its still an American game.
It's still an American game, but the foreign imprint is vast, and virtually every team has a key player(s) from beyond our borders. They are rapidly approaching being 1/3 of the NBA. That's significant. Within ten years they'll probably make up half the league. There's a whole big world out there and more kids than ever are playing. The reigning champs had like 10 foreign born players on their team last year. At times, they would play lineup combinations where not a single American player was even on the floor.
It was a game changer. Guys like Jordan and Magic and Bird helped create this monster, and it was one of their greatest gifts to the league. But they didn't compete against it
kobe, allen, pierce, dirk, duncan, garnett, iverson, kidd, nash, shaq, carter, mcgrady. Thats a star studded group.
It should be of surprise to no one that the 5 worst free throw shooting seasons since the merger, as well as 6 of the top 7 worst, all occurred during the 1990s. A time where the league clearly expanded well beyond the talent pool that they had to support it, and the average plAyer was probably worse than at any point in the last 35 years. They added 6 teams in the heart of Jordan's prime, at a time where the global talent base was bArely existent.
I think this is a very interesting thing to consider. However, is it really an apples to apples comparison? I wouldn't know how to do the detailed research, but I think the style of play in the game has affected the distribution of who is taking the most free throws. If more guards/wings are taking free throws today rather than in the 1990s, then it stands to reason that the overall free throw percentage would be higher today since guards and wings tend to be better shooters than front-court players.
For example, here are the Top 10 in FT attempts this season
1. James Harden
2. Russell Westbrook
3. DeMarcus Cousins
4. LeBron James
5. DeAndre Jordan
6. Andrew Wiggins
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Gordon Harward
9. Anthony Davis
10. Eric Bledsoe
And here were the top 10 from 94-95
1. Shaq
2. David Robinson
3. Karl Malone
4. Alonzo Mourning
5. Jamal Mashburn
6. Shawn Kemp
7. Patrick Ewing
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Detlef Schrempf
10. Grant Hill
However, if you compared the Top 5 FT success rate from each era
2014-2015
1. Steph Curry, .914
2. Jodie Meeks, .906
3. JJ Redick, .901
4. Jamal Crawford, .901
5. Chris Paul, .900
...
20. Lou Williams, .861
1994-95
1. Spud Webb, .934
2. Mark Price, .914
3. Dana Barros, .899
4. Reggie Miller, .897
5. Muggsy Bogues, .889
...
20. Sam Cassell .843
So, at least according to these two seasons, today's players were overall slightly better free throw shooters, I'm not sure how significant of a difference it is. Quickly looking at last year's list, and 20th best was only .850. However, I think the league stats are largely skewed because of the distribution of worse shooters getting to the line more frequently.
But I encourage you to stick around and keep bringing up new things to look at.
I actually think ft shooting stats are skewed against today's league averages due to all the hack a Shaq stuff, which is happening way more than ever. It may not manifest itself in many top 10 finishes outside of Deandre Jordan, but it happens a ton. It didn't even happen much after the guy it was named after. When Shaq played, hack a Shaq largely meant foul him whenever he got deep post position to not give up a dunk. This business of fouling guys 80 feet away in the back court and sending someone to the line 8 times rarely ever happened to him or anyone else. There was no hack a chris Dudley. I remember Portland did it once to Shaq in the western finals in 2000. Don Nelson used to do it with the Mavs a couple times in the regular season. But it was extremely rare
1999- .728
1994- .734
1995- .737
1998- .737
1997- .738
The Average has been over 75% every year this decade, and was an all time best .771 in 2009.
Like I said though, free throw shooting is far from a perfect measure of the strength or skill level in a league at any given time. But let's just consider it a piece entered into evidence to support something pretty evident.... That wasn't the strongest time in league history
At one point late this year he was leading the Cavs in first quarter scoring average. I'm not sure if he finished the year doing that, but as of post all star break he was. And that's not insignificant, as the first quarter just happens to be the most predictive quarter in an nba game. They would always look to get him off early in the game and get him looks to establish spacing that teams have to respect, giving Lebron and Kyrie the room to operate down the stretch. Not much different than how Bosh was used in Miami. In crunch time he didn't shoot it well this year, and he could go through stretches where he was phased out of the offense as Lebron and Kyrie take turns. But him merely being out there dragged defenders out of the paint for them
Love has gone from overrated to underrated with record speed. People spending all this time on what he's not, without seeing he's still currently such a more valuable piece than Wiggins it's disgusting. They aren't comparable in 2015
So thats extremely short sighted thinking on the opposite extreme. Wiggins is going to get exponentially better every season because thats what rookies-especially #1 overall picks- do. Its a fact. Wiggins will be better next season and better the season after. Love, however, has not only hit his ceiling already, but with the emergence of Tristan Thompson, will likely see less minutes than he did this previous season.
How is the 4th quarter playing time an invalid stat by any means? You point to the fact those are all "nationally broadcasted" games. Why are they nationally broadcasted? Because they are playing the Spurs, the Bulls, and other elite teams of the NBA. So what if he is shooting well in the 4th quarter against the CELTICS? They clearly did not need him to win 2+ series to get to the Finals.
In these last two series, TT is averaging 11 points and 11 rebounds a game. Is it really worth paying another player max money to average 6 PPG more and play much shittier defense?
I was not comparing Frye to Love in a vacuum, but if you need someone to provide 8 ppg that stretches the floor, you could do it with a mid-level type player or even cheaper.
Having Wiggins, Bennett, and (insert whatever decent stretch 4 here) would have more than made up for what Love has provided to the Cavs. Not to mention Varejao will be back to play better defense and provide similar level of rebounding as Love.
I am going to say this again. I am not trashing Kevin Love, but there is no argument that says that Kevin Love is a perfect fit. Love is a guy who needs to dominate the ball to play at his best. Lebron is a guy who needs to dominate the ball to play at his best. Kyrie is a guy who needs to dominate the ball to play at his best.
At some point, the fact that you only have 1 basketball starts to affect the value of these players. Love is a spot up shooter with Lebron and Kyrie on the floor, and at all other times he essentially is the 6th man because they throw him on the court when Kyrie and Lebron sit to provide some offense in those very few minutes.
TT has come up big recently, but Kawhi was getting hyped into a top 5 pick coming close to the draft. Klay Thompson wasn't unrealistic either.
The next year they took Waiters (who didn't even start in college) over Lillard, Harrison Barnes, and Andre Drummond.
And also in 2013, not many people realize this but they had the 19th overall pick. They took Sergey Karasev over Gorgui Dieng, Mason Plumlee, THJR, and Rudy Gobert.
As good as a story it is for Lebron to return, its such a shame such a shitty management team got bailed out. Where would this team be without Lebron?
If they hit some of these picks they could've had a lineup of Kyrie, Oladipo, Kawhi, and Gobert. That team alone would have the makings of a contender.
Yeah but in the Cavs' defense, they had just drafted... Waiters!
!
I hate the long delay, generally, but I think it's good for this series because it gave both Klay and Kyrie a chance to clear or get closer to 100%.
Or even Len or Zeller. I might be biased as an IU fan, but I think its safe to say Cody looks like hes on track to be at least a solid rotational player in the NBA. Bennett's biggest intrigue was that he was a 4 that could sometimes hit a corner 3 in a mid-major conference. I never saw the huge hype with him to start with. I did not think he'd be this awful, but c'mon Cleveland, stop trying to be too cute with your picks.
And then you had two other bigs, Zeller, who dominated the big 10, and Len, who has all the makings to be a dominant defense force. Even if Cleveland absolutely did not wanna go guard and pick Dipo they'd still have 2 much better options.
3 things I dont want to hear about:
1. Steph Curry's daughter. Seriously, I could care less how cute she is.
2. Lebron vs. Jordan. Again, its a mythical debate. I dont care
3. If Curry is the greatest shooter ever. Again, no one cares.
Talk about matchups, talk about strategy, hell even talk about how great each team is.... but please leave the filler stuff for after the game.
But yeah, there's definitely a part of me that feels like this could be one of those stepping stone years -- that proverbial playoff loss a team's players have to suffer through to become better equipped to finally win a championship. I kind of expect to see a lot of nerves on display tonight, despite how loose the Warriors' players and staff are.
Really looking forward to the finals. I see Lebron going off and proving he is the clear cut top player. He's got something to prove especially with Curry on the other side. I like CLE to win it.
LeBron's Jumper is the key to this series.
But they had to do something that does not come easy to a front office: fire a young coach who led the team to improvement every year and replace him with an unknown. That new coach then had to make the difficult decision to bench two All-Star players on a team that nearly to a man strongly supported the coach he just replaced.
There were mines on that field and Kerr avoided them well, but it couldn't have been easy. The fact that the Warriors performed so amazingly on the actual court kind of obscures some of the obstacles they did have to navigate past.
If they don't- Cleveland will win.
Cleveland will have to go over ball screens now--- guarding GS--- that will open up great ball movement and a lot of open shots.
also hard to see Tristan Thompson owning the glass like he did.
GS in 6.
I hope that's the case, but I don't think it will be.
Can I have the most over used catchphrase by an announcer for 500 Alex?
Say what? Kerr don't panic that early.
That was the biggest win GS has had since they won it 40 years ago. A loss there would have been devastating. Congrats man.
Unfortunate that defense doesn't win championships
he just decided to settle for the first time literally all game... on that shot. he was aggressive each and every other possession.
Again, the problem with Cleveland is that outside of Kyrie, there is no one else who creates on that team. It's not easy to beat Iguodala off the dribble.
If LeBron attacks the rim there, after likely being gassed, he will run into a lot of traffic and there is no way that the refs are going to call a foul and let Lebron hit a foul shot to win the game.
The game came down to a simple factor. The Warriors had one of the best regular seasons of all time, are deep, versatile and completely healthy. They are playing a team with major injuries and a lack of viable depth and perhaps the most erratic third scoring option in the league.
Food prices at oracle arena last night
When JR hit those first three threes I was both pessimistic and optimistic. I thought two opposite thoughts simultaneously: "Oh no, JR Smith might have one of those nights," an, "Oh yes, JR Smith might think he's having one of those nights, but isn't."
the best player on the planet who is having a huge game settles for that.
if its a crap team with a mediocre star, you can hope to hold for the final shot.
you have LeBron james.... hes gone off for 40... hes gotten to the rim at will, and created well.... and he shoots a bad angle 20 footer fading away with a hand in his face... the defense dictated the shot... it was an awful shot...
and that possession was their chance to win the game.
Lebron played great--- given what the warriors dictated for the game. but the problem with the game was that he missed the last shot. that was there chance--- when you play a better team you don't get many.
but he has a shot to win game 1 on the road and took a 20 foot fade away with a hand in the face, when isolated 1 on 1. im sure he would tell you he would attack more if he could do it again.
but he has a shot to win game 1 on the road and took a 20 foot fade away with a hand in the face, when isolated 1 on 1. im sure he would tell you he would attack more if he could do it again.
I don't agree with it, but I think his plan was to take that step back jumper because he did not want to leave any time on the clock if he missed. Again i dont agree with it but that seemed to be the plan.
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LeBron couldn't have done more- he played a great game as a scorer--- took a lot of shots but didn't force them-- they were 1 on 1 shots he should take them all day.
but he has a shot to win game 1 on the road and took a 20 foot fade away with a hand in the face, when isolated 1 on 1. im sure he would tell you he would attack more if he could do it again.
I don't agree with it, but I think his plan was to take that step back jumper because he did not want to leave any time on the clock if he missed. Again i dont agree with it but that seemed to be the plan.
I saw LeBron beat the Warriors last year with a buzzer-beating, fairly well-contested fade away three-pointer from maybe 26 feet out, so while it may have been a bad shot by conventional standards, it's certainly something within his arsenal.
Curry was solid but not himself- Thompson was meh--- compiled some points. green mediocre. bogut terrible... barnes was solid... Mo buckets... that's the man.
It really is a shame that Love got hurt because it would have made for a much, much better series. While his individual talent isn't maximized with the way Cleveland plays, his effect on that team's ability to play against top teams is completely underrated.
He is a great passer, and can pass over smaller players. He is also a tall wing shooter so if Golden State stays at home and doesn't collapse on LeBron, it either keeps a big man away from the hoop, or Love is tall enough to shoot over the smaller defender.
It really is crazy how healthy they are. Imagine if the Giants finish the 2015 season with just one guy on IR. That's the level of craziness the Warriors' sudden good fortune with injuries is.
They have guys coming off the bench that should be starting on other teams.
As great as LeBron is, this might be the least-great version of him in the past 5 years or so.
Imagine the turn of events if Cleveland were completely healthy and Golden State had a hobbled Klay and didn't have Draymond at all-- except that still doesn't even measure up to the impact of Love/Irving.
But sports history is all about the teams that took advantages of their opportunities, and I ahve a feeling GS is going to take advantage of this opportunity and conclude one of the greatest regular seasons of all time with their first ring in 40 years.
Livingston , Barbosa, Iggy, Spieghts, Ezeli and David Lee. You've got two solid scorers, defenders and playmakers.
Yeah, and I'm not sure if this opinion is shared by many Warriors fans but I can't deny it may put something of an asterisk on the championship if they win it -- something that says, "The Warriors benefited from other teams' misfortune to win their first championship after decades of futility, and we'll never know if they'd have been able to accomplish that otherwise."
But as with other negatives that might crop up during this dream season, I can dismiss that by being about 90% confident that the Warriors will be a very good team for the next few years, and they'll have more chances to put forth a more convincing run.
Fuck.
That sucks.
It was all setting up for a nice series, too.
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been healthy, every team they played this year in the playoffs had an injured point guard.
Yeah, and I'm not sure if this opinion is shared by many Warriors fans but I can't deny it may put something of an asterisk on the championship if they win it -- something that says, "The Warriors benefited from other teams' misfortune to win their first championship after decades of futility, and we'll never know if they'd have been able to accomplish that otherwise."
But as with other negatives that might crop up during this dream season, I can dismiss that by being about 90% confident that the Warriors will be a very good team for the next few years, and they'll have more chances to put forth a more convincing run.
Golden State had one of the best regular seasons of all-time and they were playing fantastic basketball all season. I think a fully healthy Cleveland team would have made for a fantastic series because of how they were playing once fully adjusted.
But other than that, they were clearly the best team in the game.
No one gives David Robinson or Tim Duncan an asterisk for that first title going against a Knicks team without Patrick Ewing.
The only effect this should have in historical conversation is when people inevitably bash LeBron for likely being 2-4 in the Finals.
As good as Jrue Holiday is, he didn't change the outcome of the series. Conley played and he played well and couldn't come up with more than 2 games against the Warriors.
There's an injury you can point out every year that changes the outcome of the playoffs. Westbrook and Ibaka last year, Ibaka the year before and Paul George this year just off the top of my head.
The Paul George injury is understated imo. Indiana gave Miami a hell of a run in each of the last two years, and this Cleveland team is a shell of the last 4 Miami teams. If the PG injury didn't happen, he may have improved even more (like how almost every team USA participant does) and they added great depth and shooting with CJ Miles, Rodney Stuckey, and CJ Watson. Who knows how good Indiana would've been if PG didn't get hurt. Plus, Cleveland faced a hobbled Noah and Gasol in the chicago series and a hobbled Caroll, Milsap, and Horford and Korver and Sefalosha were both injured.
I wouldn't sweat the title cuz Pat Beverley didn't play.
& people who will get on LBJ afterwards with the whole 'He's 2-4 now in Finals' are idiots.
& people who will get on LBJ afterwards with the whole 'He's 2-4 now in Finals' are idiots.
So people should just dimiss it altogether. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't cleveland beat up on injured teams during this playoffs? Last time I checked neither Atlanta nor the bulls were healthy either...
There are never gonna be injury free postseasons. Without failure there are stars injured that could've certainly made a difference. Rudy Gay in Memphis, rose over the last few seasons, KD, etc.
Beating bad teams in the east without Kyrie and Love was all because of him--- and losing possibly in the finals has nothing to do with him.
In my job i always feel like i am short options... seems like he is long optionality on these threads.
There is still a series to be played... the cavs will trot out the same players that beat the crap out of Atlanta and Chicago for the most part... if they get the sh%t kicked out of them it will show just how bad the east is... and make these finals appearances look less impressive----- win a few games and make this a series --- enough with the woe is me bull crap. this IS the team that basically won the last 2 series.
Curry can deadlift 400 lbs? - ( New Window )
Now, if a depleted Golden State team (say, no Klay/Draymond or no Steph) were to beat up a healthy Cleveland team, then then would talk a lot more about Cleveland's series with Atlanta to make the Finals.
Thompson on the bench on a late and wrong call
30 FGA per game from LeBron is going to be crazy to watch. He might average 40 PPG in this series and they still lose in 5.
I would have thought they would have more poise.
Still think its really stupid to pick n roll curry all game... he doesnt need the screen it just crowds the play.
with delladova? i mean he doesnt belong on the court
hes horrific offensive player. and an effort defensive player but really not any good.
with delladova? i mean he doesnt belong on the court
hes horrific offensive player. and an effort defensive player but really not any good.
Bulls got rid of their problem. Teague was an all-star by team recognition.
And Shumpert was closer to hitting Klay's elbow there than the ball.
but overall its just really ugly
a "good bad" game.
close in score but horribly player except for the Moz
That is the power of Scott Foster. He is the most crooked official in the NBA and has been since the Donaghy fiasco. Where as other officials suck, I read a stat earlier in the playoffs that road teams are 11-2 in games he officiates.
no extra passes-- careless with ball--- poor movement-- no ability to get transition baskets
And cleveland is 3-0 with Foster officiating, and you guessed it - all on the road.
and a foul call.
and a 3.... nice swing there
maybe pass and move?
And Scott Foster with ANOTHER off the ball call against GS.
Agreed. The alpha dogs for GS minus Klay have been non existant.
The role players are carrying the Cavs this quarter. Delly, Smith, and Thompson.
lebron you cheap fk
Lebron James gets that call from every official in the NBA
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Lebron elbows Iggy. FOul on Iggy.
Lebron James gets that call from every official in the NBA
Read my stats from above. He is the most crooked official in all of sports. Road teams will be 11-1 now in the playoffs with him officiating. Cleveland will be 4-0 with him officiating while trailing in the series. And he has called the msot fouls in the playoffs.
If I knew he was officiating, I would have bet my house on the Cavs. He didnt give the Cavs this game. But he was going to make sure his whistle worked for them.
You really should seek help
How you do not get a good shot with under a minute left with all those timeouts is a sin.
Get your eyes checked
Kerr sitting on his hands.
Lebron time.
Why is Mosgov not in the game???
They call tocky tack shit like the JR Smith foul a mile away from basket they should call that too
They call tocky tack shit like the JR Smith foul a mile away from basket they should call that too
If they arent going to call his forearm extension all game to get separation, they arent calling that.
11-31. Not saying its right, but thats the microscope.
There is nothing more pathetic on this board than chris r when he talks about LeBron
That alone is a huge win for the Warriors.
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for this game is beyond me...what more do you want him to do?
11-31. Not saying its right, but thats the microscope.
He was shooting 50% with a triple double until they started just going 1 on 1...it looks like the Knicks offense with Melo
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In comment 12317695 nygiants16 said:
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for this game is beyond me...what more do you want him to do?
11-31. Not saying its right, but thats the microscope.
He was shooting 50% with a triple double until they started just going 1 on 1...it looks like the Knicks offense with Melo
He was 7-12 in the first half. But hasnt hit anything in the 2nd half.
GS shooting has been horrendous.
How many times did Jordan go to the line in the playoffs to win the game?
LOL no. That's not a foul and MJ played in an Era when they allowed much more contact.
No Jordan would hit the mid range shot in Iguodola's face
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gotten a foul call on that last drive in regulation by Lebron. 100% foul on GS if that was Michael Jordan, no doubt in my mind.
No Jordan would hit the mid range shot in Iguodola's face
After he pushed iggy to the ground
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In comment 12317709 NYMase said:
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gotten a foul call on that last drive in regulation by Lebron. 100% foul on GS if that was Michael Jordan, no doubt in my mind.
No Jordan would hit the mid range shot in Iguodola's face
After he pushed iggy to the ground
Of course
Is a comical bbi development
Is a comical bbi development
whose being a homer? just stating the obvious
WTF.
Held down on the jump ball too.
MJ would be screaming at officials nonstop.
He got outplayed by Delladova.
Bring your daughter to the presser now and tell her how you blew the game for your team.
They are by far the better defensive team, and are a much better defensive team without Kyrie. Again, Curry did not score against Delladova. None.
1-1, best of 5 series, going back to Cleveland. The outcome an unbiased fan should've been rooting for, this is a series now.
1-1, best of 5 series, going back to Cleveland. The outcome an unbiased fan should've been rooting for, this is a series now.
He's a POS and a dirty player. But he came through tonight.
They are by far the better defensive team, and are a much better defensive team without Kyrie. Again, Curry did not score against Delladova. None.
Really? The Warriors are going to lose 3 out of the next 4 games?
I doubt it. Even if they go down 1-2, like they did against Memphis, I'm pretty sure they have at least two more wins in them. Sure, they still don't get the benefit of the whistle in general, but they probably won't have a 25-40 FTA disadvantage in 3 of the next 4 games.
As much as I enjoy watching the rest of you guys learn what an annoying douchebag Draymond Green is, he's still an awesome help defender who almost won the Warriors the game with his D and hustle in OT. Then you have Iggy and Klay on the perimeter, and Barnes' strength makes him versatile on D too. And Bogut in the middle is a stud defender. They have serious defensive talent.
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could be up 2-0.
They are by far the better defensive team, and are a much better defensive team without Kyrie. Again, Curry did not score against Delladova. None.
Really? The Warriors are going to lose 3 out of the next 4 games?
I doubt it. Even if they go down 1-2, like they did against Memphis, I'm pretty sure they have at least two more wins in them. Sure, they still don't get the benefit of the whistle in general, but they probably won't have a 25-40 FTA disadvantage in 3 of the next 4 games.
Like I said before the series started.
1. You dont have anyone to slow down Lebron. He's shooting bad because he is exhausted. But he is getting to the line at will and putting up the other stats.
2. You cant stop cleveland on the boards, as the smallest guy on the floor got the most important rebound at the end of the game.
3. Cleveland is a better defensive team.
4. GS has shown their in experience.
Bogut and green have been absolute bums. Awful. And curry has been lockdowned by Shuump and Delly. So yes, I can see this pattern continuing. I know I have been tough on Curry's shooting, but Lebron aint making them either. And neither has his surrounding crew.
And for as dominant GS has been at home all year, they had two rough outings in a row at home. If teams are suppose to play better at home, how do you not like Cleveland taking the next two games?
As much as I enjoy watching the rest of you guys learn what an annoying douchebag Draymond Green is, he's still an awesome help defender who almost won the Warriors the game with his D and hustle in OT. Then you have Iggy and Klay on the perimeter, and Barnes' strength makes him versatile on D too. And Bogut in the middle is a stud defender. They have serious defensive talent.
You cant use full year stats on Clevelands defense.
1. Shump and Moz didnt get traded until mid-year.
2. Love is an awful defender, and now TT is providing much better defense.
3. Delly, while a dirtbag, is also a much better defender than Kyrie.
Clevelands offense will be awful to watch with no Love or Kyrie, but their defense is much, much better now. And I think they are much better than GS. One reason why? Curry has been exploited in this pick and roll. Couple of those threes ;ate were because he got caught in the screen and couldnt recover.
Sure their offense helped those stats out, since their D would be set more often. But this Warriors team is awesome on the defensive end.
The Cavs D is playing at a really high level but I don't think they're a better defensive team than the Warriors. But let's say the Cavs are better on D... there's no chance in hell they're "far" better on D than the Warriors who ranked #1 in DRtg this season. The Cavs are better on the boards and that's what they need to do to keep doing to win.
Sure their offense helped those stats out, since their D would be set more often. But this Warriors team is awesome on the defensive end.
The Cavs D is playing at a really high level but I don't think they're a better defensive team than the Warriors. But let's say the Cavs are better on D... there's no chance in hell they're "far" better on D than the Warriors who ranked #1 in DRtg this season. The Cavs are better on the boards and that's what they need to do to keep doing to win.
Remember one thing about regular season stats during the postseason.... you throw them right out the door.
Cleveland is playing with one offensive player. GS has weapons all around the court, and are whiskers from being down 0-2. Cleveland would not be in this position whatsoever if not for their defense.
And I am not judging their defense just off these first two games. I am judging it by their effort in 3 series now. They have raised it to a level that may be at a level no one reached in the NBA this year. They have won 8 of their last 9 games by defending. And much of it has come without Kyrie.
They are by far the better defensive team, and are a much better defensive team without Kyrie. Again, Curry did not score against Delladova. None.
GS could be up 2-0 as well. They played like shit tonight and still almost won.
We went from "Cavs have no chance, series is over, they might get swept" when Kyrie was ruled out... to "Cavs will win it in 6" after game 2. LOL. What the hell.
And what are people smoking thinking Dellavedova is going to shut down Curry for the rest of the series. Come on now. Curry had a bad game but so did half of his team. It happens. He'll bounce back. People need to stop being so reactionary from game to game.
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could be up 2-0.
They are by far the better defensive team, and are a much better defensive team without Kyrie. Again, Curry did not score against Delladova. None.
GS could be up 2-0 as well. They played like shit tonight and still almost won.
We went from "Cavs have no chance, series is over, they might get swept" when Kyrie was ruled out... to "Cavs will win it in 6" after game 2. LOL. What the hell.
And what are people smoking thinking Dellavedova is going to shut down Curry for the rest of the series. Come on now. Curry had a bad game but so did half of his team. It happens. He'll bounce back. People need to stop being so reactionary from game to game.
I predicted CAVS in 6 from the start.
Curry needs to bounce back big time tomorrow night.
And no, Curry will not play that bad again, but by the same measure, will Thompson explode that much again?
Game 1, the duo combined 15/34 for 47 points.
Game 2, the duo combined for 19/51 and 53 points.
Obviously game 1 was a more efficient night but its not like they pulled away from Cleveland in that one. Sustaining 25 ppg between the two will be a difficult task but it will be needed, especially as the series is going into Cleveland.
But I can do nothing but tip my hat to LeBron. That guy is willing his team. Hist numbers turned out inefficient, but the majority of the game, he was efficient. He was just gassed later on, and he attacked the rim a lot. While he didn't get some calls that should have been called (and not FGAs) it did free things up for offensive rebounds.
The one thing that doesn't mean much to me is his rebound total. The majority of those were defensive rebounds that were uncontested where all 9 other guys dropped back. But that often happened when guys like Magic and Kidd got their triple doubles, too.
But I can do nothing but tip my hat to LeBron. That guy is willing his team. Hist numbers turned out inefficient, but the majority of the game, he was efficient. He was just gassed later on, and he attacked the rim a lot. While he didn't get some calls that should have been called (and not FGAs) it did free things up for offensive rebounds.
The one thing that doesn't mean much to me is his rebound total. The majority of those were defensive rebounds that were uncontested where all 9 other guys dropped back. But that often happened when guys like Magic and Kidd got their triple doubles, too.
I think Lebron is so fatigued right now, his shooting is going to be the big question mark. I think he went 5-22 in the 2nd half and OT. He didnt have any lift on his shot to end regulation, and you never see him get blocked the way he did on the layup attempt where Green sent it flying.
I think his rebounding totals are going up is because he isnt guarding any of GS's main players. He is usually sticking on Barnes or Iggy. In his younger days, he would be chasing Curry or Thompson everywhere trying to shut them down. But with Shump and Delly playing defense, he can sit and be a weak side defender (an excellent one at that). SO he is more likely to get boards by just hanging around the rim.
Plus there will be a lot of rebound opportunities since GS get shots off quicker and have been bricklayers to begin these finals.
Game 2 Klay drops 20 in the first half and slows down and scores only 10 points in the 2nd half and OT.
The tri of Tristan, Shump, and JR combined for 7/29. So a 24% shooting night between those 3 are going to be the norm as well for the rest of the series?
Its not like they were taking bad shots. Lebron set Shump and JR up with some pretty nice looks and they just missed on open 3s. They will be more of a factor, especially as they go back to Cleveland.
Listen, Lebron is by far and away the best player in this series, and in the NBA. He will probably go down as one of the top 2-3 players ever. There is no dispute or denial in that in my book. But all I have watched and heard this morning was this the greatest game he ever played.
Seriously????
He played well last night, but I have seen 100 games where he played better. He shot 11-35. Thats not good. Now he rebounded well, dished it amazingly. But he didnt stand out in the 2nd half or in OT. He isnt guarding at the level that he once was. He had some bad turnovers again. Why cant the media just say he had another good game. These past few games would not be the ones I'd use to escalate Lebron's credentials.
As much as I am rooting for the warriors... I love the Cavs, and lebrons tone, post game... its going to be ugly because it needs to be ugly---
I think Blatt has flown so under the radar this year as well--- and in this playoff-- have you ever heard less about a coach who has been pulling the right strngs... and engineered a great defensive squad? the team is winning much because of LeBron.. but LeBron is not playing great defense... Cleveland is as a team... and that is on blatt.
Kerr has no answers yet and seems to be hoping for mean reversion.
Cleveland literally looks like a throwback sixers team with Iverson/larry brown- except you have LeBron and not AI... so a better version
I did think this was an interesting tweet from ESPN
Isn't he Australian?
Barnes was so bad on wide open corner 3s at times too- whole team ex. klay in shambles
Yes I get that, but you are comparing a small sample to a larger, proven sample. No doubt the playoffs is a different beast where you can throw a lot of regular season stats out of the window, but if Curry starts shooting well, its terrible news for Cleveland because Thompson would likely be open a lot more.
Curry playing this poorly is the only reason its not 2-0 on the way to a sweep. If he keeps throwing up duds, it won't matter what Thompson does (outside of insane 40+ point games which isn't likely). Defense still wins championships and LeBron is so good that a couple more bad nights for Curry is all it will take.
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but Thompsons best performance against Houston was a 9 for 21 performance despite Curry balling out almost every game. Trend didn't continue in game 1 either.
Yes I get that, but you are comparing a small sample to a larger, proven sample. No doubt the playoffs is a different beast where you can throw a lot of regular season stats out of the window, but if Curry starts shooting well, its terrible news for Cleveland because Thompson would likely be open a lot more.
Curry playing this poorly is the only reason its not 2-0 on the way to a sweep. If he keeps throwing up duds, it won't matter what Thompson does (outside of insane 40+ point games which isn't likely). Defense still wins championships and LeBron is so good that a couple more bad nights for Curry is all it will take.
Up until Curry hit a few shots in the 4th quarter, Cleveland was not doubling him. They would have the big man hedge out on him and have the guard switch back. When he looked like he was going to get back in rhythm, they started to double him and force the ball out of his hands.
But the point was that they were daring Curry and Thompson to beat them 1 on 1. Klay forces up some tough shots so they are relying on regression to the mean because they know he is going to hit a cold streak if he continues his poor shot selection. No other GS player seems to be getting involved consistently on offense so they are letting one of Curry or Klay beat them. Both will need to step up to put away the Cavs. I'm more concerned with Klay because he is known to be inconsistent, whereas this past game seems more like an anomaly than anything else.
Last night, he just couldn't buy a shot. It happens.
The pressure that Cleveland is required to play so far out against him has opened up the rest of the court so well, but Cleveland is doing a very, VERY good recovering. Credit to Blatt's coaching.
Yes you can. You can take any stat and make any argument you want. But what is most likely, Curry getting closer to being the best shooter in the league for the remainder of the series, or Shumpert and JR Smith playing better for the remainder of the series?
Its really not a debate, the league MVP is playing nowhere near his average level of play while Shumpert/Smith or doing what they've done their whole careers give or take however, that doesn't mean either is a given. That's why they play the games.
I picked GS to win in 5 with a few blowouts because I thought the argument that the whole "a team has never been here before" argument was utter BS but I can somehow understand it now. Everyone outside of Curry and Klay are consistently deferring. Cleveland is forcing those guys to step up. Iggy, Livingston, and Speights did so in game 1 but all 3 disappeared in game 2. No one wants to shoot the ball on that end but Lebron is attacking looking for fouls on every play.
I have no idea who is going to win but GS Finals experience, or lack thereof, is blatantly showing.
Kerr has no answers yet and seems to be hoping for mean reversion.
Kerr is a patient and calm but proactive dude. He's not going to visibly panic, but he's probably not just sitting there counting on things to adjust on their own accord.
But I get the strong feeling that LeBron's Magnum Opus is on the horizon. You can just sense it coming. There's a legendary 50/15/10 game in him that's just waiting to explode. I think either tonight or Game 4, we're going to see a LeBron game for the ages.
Rooting for the Cavs. The Warriors have the best crowd in basketball, the desperate Cleveland fanbase needs to match them in these Finals games.
#oldpeoplecomplaints
#oldpeoplecomplaints
$$$$$. West coast people would be hard pressed to watch a game if it started at 7 EST since they are still working.
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Why are the games at 9? NBA is stupid.
#oldpeoplecomplaints
$$$$$. West coast people would be hard pressed to watch a game if it started at 7 EST since they are still working.
The NHL has theirs at 8. That's seemed like a reasonable compromise IMV.
But I get the strong feeling that LeBron's Magnum Opus is on the horizon. You can just sense it coming. There's a legendary 50/15/10 game in him that's just waiting to explode. I think either tonight or Game 4, we're going to see a LeBron game for the ages.
Rooting for the Cavs. The Warriors have the best crowd in basketball, the desperate Cleveland fanbase needs to match them in these Finals games.
The one thing I worry about Lebron is he was physically spent and looked bad walking after the game. There is no doubt he is taxed. And like I said, he shot 5-22 in the 2nd half and OT, so its affecting his scoring, which they need him to do. With the flight back, and probably little practice in him, I can see him posting a legendary line and I could just as easily see him throw up a 8-31 game with 7 turnovers.
I would have LOVED to see Lebron in this situation about 4-5 years ago when he was prime Lebron. But he is older now. And father time beats everyone. Not saying he is going to suck, but the bounce back this game may not be there.
Never understood why some of those Ducks/hawks games started so early, especially when CHI fans are central time zone. My guess is Holland and the Red Wings had something to do with it.
dep's "father time" comment - feel like Joe is owed a royalty everytime someone says that. Man he loved that phrase.
Mozgov has owned Bogut this series. Bogut has been a lot worse than green.
Regarding LeBron's isolation game that many have criticized (in general), I wish the broadcast team would spend time explaining how that offensive strategy has actually helped out their defense.
By playing such a severe isolation game, it puts Cleveland in a much better position to get back and to get set on defense, which limits Golden State's transition and open-court game. There are fewer turnovers, fewer total possessions to keep the game closer.
Another thing specific to LeBron's iso, is that it keeps the rest of the guys (particularly Dellavedova and Shumpert) much fresher and conserves their energy to focus on defense.
It's like hitting on 16 in blackjack facing a picture card. You are desperate. You don't want to hit and you know that you will likely bust. But you still have to do it because it's still your best chance among your options.
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someone who can collapse the defense a little. GS' weakness is they don't have any great penetrators or post players, no one to collapse a defense and draw double or triple teams.
Mozgov has owned Bogut this series. Bogut has been a lot worse than green.
Bogut is the better player and needs to be given a chance to show it.
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In comment 12320520 chris r said:
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someone who can collapse the defense a little. GS' weakness is they don't have any great penetrators or post players, no one to collapse a defense and draw double or triple teams.
Mozgov has owned Bogut this series. Bogut has been a lot worse than green.
Bogut is the better player and needs to be given a chance to show it.
53 minutes and 2 FGs made. Thats pathetic.
The flopping is annoying, and I wish the NBA would do a better job regulating it out of the NBA. But the only superstar who doesn't flop or freak out about not getting calls is Carmelo, but he never gets credit for that. LeBron also takes more contact than probably anyone in the league, too.
As far as his "obvious steroid use," give me some proof, or some persuasive circumstantial evidence that corroborates use. Otherwise, it's nothing more than your typical contrarian, fly-in-the-ointment nonsense.
And if you like basketball, I don't know how you could hate LeBron. He's the least selfish scoring superstar perhaps the league has ever seen. He's an athletic marvel with a fantastic baskeball IQ who looks to get his teammates involved. If you can't appreciate that, then I don't know why you would continue to watch sports.
Because he can not move...
One of my least favorite players in the NBA. That is not a legal screen, Van Gundy, you jackass. He moved the entire time.
And I thought that was a moving screen, but it looked good after the replay.
One of my least favorite players in the NBA. That is not a legal screen, Van Gundy, you jackass. He moved the entire time.
I dont know. I thought it was at first by looking at the replay it wasnt as bad as I thought. I have seen players get away with a lot worse than that.
Because Deladova flopped, Curry didnt touch him
Santa, this is why your team trails in free throws every game. He commits that dumbest fouls because he is lazy. He's soft as shit.
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They have no inside game
They are soft as shit
Kerr has been suspect at best coaching wise this series
Due to the amount of fouls they committ, they are overrated defensively.
They are getting outplayed and have no answers. Cleveland is running three plays.
Wing screen and role
Double high screen
ISO
And they still cant stop it.
And Steph Curry? Better wake up and quick.
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Its about the 6th dirty play he has made during the playoffs - the NBA does nothing, so he continues to do it.
I agree with Hreens illegal screen, but you are joking you dont see him diving at Green's knees? My god, its right there.
He threw a shoulder into him, he didn't dive at anything. If he dove, wouldn't he have also wound up on the floor at the same time?
He was already "low" because of Greens illegal moving screen/forearm.
He took a shot at him, certainly, but he did not dive at his knees. That's absurd.
He threw a shoulder into him, he didn't dive at anything. If he dove, wouldn't he have also wound up on the floor at the same time?
Throwing a shoulder at a guys knees when not looking is one of the dirtiest plays in basketball. It god damn dangerous. No place for it in the game whatsoever.
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have an odd definition of "dive"
He threw a shoulder into him, he didn't dive at anything. If he dove, wouldn't he have also wound up on the floor at the same time?
Throwing a shoulder at a guys knees when not looking is one of the dirtiest plays in basketball. It god damn dangerous. No place for it in the game whatsoever.
On what planet is this "diving" at a guys knees?
He never dove at anything. He was knocked to the ground by Green's illegal screen and then took a shot at him. If he dove at Green's knee's Green would be on crutches right now.
He's a dirtbag. He has been doing shit like this all playoffs. This is not a coincidence.
Green brings a lot to the table as a two-way player (though his offense is more of a wide open option for 3), but his dirty plays and constant whining are such a turn off that i wouldn't want to root for him.
Bogut was a great rim protector all year, but for whatever reason, this style of clear out iso ball has really made him completely ineffective.
Also, when he grabbed Lebron's arm to prevent a rebound (something he does all game), I had flashbacks to the Olynik/Love play.
Curry hasn't been right since he hurt his shoulder. Maybe that's a factor-- maybe Cleveland's defense is giving him trouble, and maybe he just can't buy a bucket these last two games.
But Blatt deserves a lot of credit because he has done a phenomenal job preparing this team defensively for Golden State's offense.
GS though. Just awful.
And his real +/- with him on the court was outstanding in the postseason until his injury.
And his real +/- with him on the court was outstanding in the postseason until his injury.
They dont miss him one iota. They rebound just as well. And are much better defensively. This isnt even debatable.
This series is over.
Come on.
And I hate Love, but they are not better off without him.
I have said all playoffs that Cleveland had the best defense in the NBA without being it close.
My predictions are damn closer than what anyone else said. I believe the majority of people had GS in 5 at most 6.
Without Love they are 11-3 in the playoffs.
Without Irving they are 4-0.
But yet these guys are missed? Dont seem like it to me.
You're really overrating the Warriors. They arent as good as people think.
Cleveland was an excellent defensive team all year. This isn't a coincidence.
But at some point, Curry and Klay have to do their thing and take over. And when the shots aren't falling, there's only so much Kerr can do.
Plus, Bogut, who was a big part of their team this year, has been absolutely awful thus far.
Cleveland was an excellent defensive team all year. This isn't a coincidence.
I have been the only one this thread saying this. I have been saying it since the Bulls series.
Also, Cleveland's defense is very strong-- and the credit goes to Blatt. His calling card was defense and what he's created with Cleveland is fantastic, especially considering that the two players who led the Cavaliers in minutes this season are out with injury.
No lead is safe in the nba, never mind against this GS team
Also, Cleveland's defense is very strong-- and the credit goes to Blatt. His calling card was defense and what he's created with Cleveland is fantastic, especially considering that the two players who led the Cavaliers in minutes this season are out with injury.
People made this team look like this was one of the greatest teams ever. They arent.
Their huge advantage all year was that they had 9-10 guys who can play huge productive minutes where most teams dont. So over a course of an 82 game season, they will be better than most teams since teams wont play their superstars 39-42 minutes.
The playoffs are a different animal though. Opposing teams are going to play their best players major minutes, which neutralize their bench advantage.
OKC didnt make it bc of injuries
NO lost their PG
Houston lost their PG
Chris paul missed games
Portland played without Matthews.
The west was beaten down by injuries.
Makes one recall the stories told by Donaghy...as of the refs are doing what's necessary to make this a close game
I am glad they counted the goaltending, because it was the right call - but your right on the others.
Oh I agree. Didnt want to diminish his impact so far. Came across as I did.
His offense was going to come back to earth after the last two series, but defensively? He has been an absolute beast this series.
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Who knew?
His offense was going to come back to earth after the last two series, but defensively? He has been an absolute beast this series.
Wasn't he guarding Thompson pretty much all of game 2 where Thompson went off?
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In comment 12321158 Greg from LI said:
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Who knew?
His offense was going to come back to earth after the last two series, but defensively? He has been an absolute beast this series.
Wasn't he guarding Thompson pretty much all of game 2 where Thompson went off?
And has guarded him in game 1 and 3 where he shut him down. He also has 10 steals in 3 games. And shooting 50% from the floor and 33% from 3 is hardly going off.
You guessed it.... Curry.
He has been abused in pick and rolls for two games. And Delly has been pretty good offensively outside that one play.
And Curry with another turnover..... choke city.
It's been this way forever, and im sure it wasn't painful when Jordan was getting every call for over a decade. This is the NBA. The refs always have and always will suck
Curry lost the ball before he ever got fouled. They aren't going to bail him out after he already turned it over nor should they.
And another Curry turnover. Pathetic basketball from a MVP.
The MVP has sucked balls. Thats why they are losing.
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This league has no fucking credibility. It's wwf shit every fucking season and yet we dumb ass fans keep watching.
Curry lost the ball before he ever got fouled. They aren't going to bail him out after he already turned it over nor should they.
That literallly makes zero sense...so Lebron is allowed to slide tackle him? whether Curry lost the ball is irrelevant he still slide tackled him..
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In comment 12321185 chris r said:
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This league has no fucking credibility. It's wwf shit every fucking season and yet we dumb ass fans keep watching.
Curry lost the ball before he ever got fouled. They aren't going to bail him out after he already turned it over nor should they.
That literallly makes zero sense...so Lebron is allowed to slide tackle him? whether Curry lost the ball is irrelevant he still slide tackled him..
It's like a guy getting his shot blocked and then getting basically run over, they NEVER call a foul on the contact after a clean block.
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In comment 12321185 chris r said:
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This league has no fucking credibility. It's wwf shit every fucking season and yet we dumb ass fans keep watching.
Curry lost the ball before he ever got fouled. They aren't going to bail him out after he already turned it over nor should they.
That literallly makes zero sense...so Lebron is allowed to slide tackle him? whether Curry lost the ball is irrelevant he still slide tackled him..
It was definitely within the character of the game as a whole... the whole third quarter was full of non-calls on Cleveland countered by touch fouls on GS.
Just for the record, Radar and I are not associated in any way.
Seriously. Bulls fans bitching about star treatment. Holy shit.
And another Curry turnover. Pathetic basketball from a MVP.
This. What the hell were they whistling for?
This may end in GS.
Ill assume Curry aint bringing Riley to the press conference again?
This may end in GS.
Ill assume Curry aint bringing Riley to the press conference again?
If Curry's 4th quarter is a sign of things to come in this series GS will win this series.
lol. troll. must be.
You are so pathetic that it's actually funny.
Well, they never did show a replay of when they called the jump ball to see where his feet were, so you can't say that he was definitely out, because the picture they showed was well after the jump ball was called. He may have had his feet in the air, you don't know.
And anyways, it didn't hurt the Warriors at all considering that possession wound up in a Curry corner three
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you may not get your wish...
This may end in GS.
Ill assume Curry aint bringing Riley to the press conference again?
If Curry's 4th quarter is a sign of things to come in this series GS will win this series.
Where he turns it over 4 times and cant guard a soul? A few helter-skleter threes is an anomaly. He's been outplayed by a backup PG for 2 games straight. And the Warriors dont have a soul who can do a thing on the inside.
They cant score or get to the foul line. Two recipes for disaster against Cleveland.
Yup. Entertaining but ugly at the same time. Not that well played, but that's the way the Cavs have to play it if they want to win. And thye know it
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on that loose ball o nthe baseline.... Delly was clearly out of bounds. And it wasnt reviewed.
Well, they never did show a replay of when they called the jump ball to see where his feet were, so you can't say that he was definitely out, because the picture they showed was well after the jump ball was called. He may have had his feet in the air, you don't know.
And anyways, it didn't hurt the Warriors at all considering that possession wound up in a Curry corner three
They just showed a replay before they interviewed him,. He was out of bounds. It wasnt even close.
He lost the ball before he was fouled. They rarely call it in that situation.
Curry turned that ball over before LeBron made contact. The refs aren't going to bail Curry out with a foul after he already lost it, like they dont bail a guy out who gets his shot blocked clean and then gets clobbered afterwards.
The problem for Golden State is that they haven't had a game yet where both Klay and Steph are shooting well, and shooting well early.
Dellavedova didn't outplay Steph. He just completely outplayed expectations and came up with some hustle plays which is big considering his role on the team. He is in no way a focal point of that Cavs offense whereas Steph is.
This series is far from over. Fatigue will be a factor, and Steph reminded of what makes him so dangerous towards the end of the game. If he gets that going early in Game 4, it's going to open things up for everyone.
And Klay didn't look right at all. I know he was limping and iced up after Game 2, so hopefully it's nothing too serious.
Dellavedova didn't outplay Steph. He just completely outplayed expectations and came up with some hustle plays which is big considering his role on the team. He is in no way a focal point of that Cavs offense whereas Steph is.
I would disagree 1000x. Curry was the reason they got down 20 late in the third. Delly's defense on him until the game got helter skelter was lock down. Curry didnt even get to the free throw once. And Curry's defense is putrid to say the least. Yeah Curry made some 3 late, but he had some BRUTAL turnovers down the strethc and also was picked on defensively.
Dellevdova was the better player tonight.
1. They dont get to the line based on all their jump shooting.
2. They have no inside game whatsoever.
3. They are going against the best defensive team they have seen all year.
4. They are going against Lebron.
This is reminding me of the 04' finals other than the fact that Detroit didnt have a player of Lebron's caliber.
Steph was cold early and couldn't get it going, but he wasn't the only reason they were down 20. Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes were 2-for-18 shooting, and Klay was 6-for-16.
Steph was cold early and couldn't get it going, but he wasn't the only reason they were down 20. Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes were 2-for-18 shooting, and Klay was 6-for-16.
Curry has to be the best player on their team. Thats what separates guys like Lebron, Jordan, Duncan, etc of the world. They rely on their teammates all year, but when its time to become the man - they separate themselves. There were times in the game where Curry had Tristan Thompson on him, and he is looking to throw the ball into a guy named Festus Ezeli.
And also, Curry is a horrible defender. Due mostly to his size and stature. But they are most definitely picking on him.
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But when did it become legal for lebron to run into players from behind causing them to turnover? I'm not being sarcastic, how is that legal?
Curry turned that ball over before LeBron made contact. The refs aren't going to bail Curry out with a foul after he already lost it, like they dont bail a guy out who gets his shot blocked clean and then gets clobbered afterwards.
We were talking Steph vs. Dellavedova and then you were blaming Steph for being down 20, when his entire team played like shit. The difference is that he caught fire later on whereas the rest of his starting lineup remained bad-to-terrible all game.
Perhaps if his teammates gave him anything early on when he was struggling, then his superlative late-game shooting would have given them the lead and the win instead of keeping them just nipping at Cleveland's heels.
He's the MVP of the league. He has to play better. You cant be a non factor for 7 straight quarters of the NBA finals. And he was horrific in game 2, and shut down through 3 quarters. And even with his late barrage, his turnovers/defense were just as critical to the outcome.
Blaming the officials aint going to work against Cleveland. Mozgov and Thompson as a tandem defensively are the best they have seen this year, and that includes Memphis. Throw in Lebron guarding basically no one (and overlooked factor in this series) and him playing weakside has shut down the Warriors inside game.
If Lee plays major, major minutes..... It will be a layup drill for Cleveland. Give him credit for giving them something on offense, but he still stinks on defense.
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Dellavedova didn't outplay Steph. He just completely outplayed expectations and came up with some hustle plays which is big considering his role on the team. He is in no way a focal point of that Cavs offense whereas Steph is.
I would disagree 1000x. Curry was the reason they got down 20 late in the third. Delly's defense on him until the game got helter skelter was lock down. Curry didnt even get to the free throw once. And Curry's defense is putrid to say the least. Yeah Curry made some 3 late, but he had some BRUTAL turnovers down the strethc and also was picked on defensively.
Dellevdova was the better player tonight.
That's the problem with the NBA; you tune in to watch Curry and James play basketball and the guy who becomes news is the one playing Australian Rules football. Fugly.
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Steph found his confidence after 7 ugly quarters and Kerr found a guy who might matchup well with Thompson in Lee.
If Lee plays major, major minutes..... It will be a layup drill for Cleveland. Give him credit for giving them something on offense, but he still stinks on defense.
So do all the Warriors interior players outside Green. At least he can do work on the boards and get some easy points inside.
- missing fast break dunks
- throwing no look behind passes late in the 4th down in the game.
- coach not recognizing shooters at end of quarters.
- committing dumb and uncessary fouls...
they look like a team that is wide eyed. Green has acted like a fool. Bogut has been cheapshotting players all series. Believe it or not, the one player who has played well, IMO, has been Iggy.
-120
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from time to time -- after all, they ranked in the top-5 in points in the paint. But they might have an even tougher time adjusting to Cleveland's "foul the shit out of you with relative impunity" philosophy than they did against Memphis' style.
Blaming the officials aint going to work against Cleveland. Mozgov and Thompson as a tandem defensively are the best they have seen this year, and that includes Memphis.
It's not blaming the officials -- it's crediting Cleveland for exploiting them.
-120
Wasnt it -220 to start? I may rebet Cleveland again.
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still favored in Vegas to win this series.
-120
Wasnt it -220 to start? I may rebet Cleveland again.
Why would you do that?
It's like blaming LeBron for a lack of assists in game 1 when his teammates couldn't hit their great looks.
Green/Bogut/Barnes were the primary liabilities on the team. They brought nothing to the table on either end of the floor. And with Klay playing subpar, it's asking Steph to carry the Warriors the way LeBron is carrying the Cavaliers and that's just not going to happen. Steph is not, nor will he ever be on LeBron's level. And I say this as a huge Steph fan (favorite player in the league, favorite college player ever).
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In comment 12321257 MookGiants said:
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still favored in Vegas to win this series.
-120
Wasnt it -220 to start? I may rebet Cleveland again.
Why would you do that?
I would assume Cleveland is +110? I have always thought they would win the series. I'll take any ring + now especially up 2-1.
They are even money
And even I didn't give enough credit to Tristan Thompson, which is saying something -- I thought people underrated him all year. That fucking guy. How many fouls have the Warriors racked up just trying to keep him from rebounding the ball?
He has played really well. GS isnt getting anything easy outside a few putbacks.
If someone told me that Lebron would be 40% from the floor in this series, and be up 2-1 and within whiskers of being up 3-0, I would have called you crazy. I think people are starting to realize how good Cleveland's defense is and how its carrying them to a possible title.
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still favored in Vegas to win this series.
-120
Wasnt it -220 to start? I may rebet Cleveland again.
I think it was -160. I tried to put money on Golden State but there was a website issue. Then it gapped to -220 after Irving went down.
I still think GS wins this series. Clock will strike midnight on this PG at some point and the GS shooters will wake up. They only need to win 1 in Cleveland.
and I stick to my Iverson Philly comp for this cavs team... inefficient 40 point games but imposing his will on the game.
that is what disgusted me with LeBron vs. dallas... and in some of the Spurs series games.... impose your will... be "in efficient" for the stat junkies but successful on the eye test... which wins games.
this is Lebrons best finals because he is imposing his will on the game --- for better and for worse FG% wise... but for the better team wise.
I have been rough on Curry, but to his defense.... he has no one inside who can score on Moz or TT.
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I never considered Curry a true PG, despite the gaudy assist totals, much like Westbrook. He puts up assists but doesn't necessarily orchestrate an offense. Now he proved me wrong this year, but I'm getting the vibe that Steph Curry the "PG" hasn't showed up yet in the first 3 games.
I have been rough on Curry, but to his defense.... he has no one inside who can score on Moz or TT.
Was watching Zach Lowe talk after the game, and he made a great point on how when they sat Curry and put Lee in, not only was lee a good scoring presence around the rim, he was finding the right guys to kick it out to, which should've been Curry's job.
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In comment 12321423 giantsfan44ab said:
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I never considered Curry a true PG, despite the gaudy assist totals, much like Westbrook. He puts up assists but doesn't necessarily orchestrate an offense. Now he proved me wrong this year, but I'm getting the vibe that Steph Curry the "PG" hasn't showed up yet in the first 3 games.
I have been rough on Curry, but to his defense.... he has no one inside who can score on Moz or TT.
Was watching Zach Lowe talk after the game, and he made a great point on how when they sat Curry and put Lee in, not only was lee a good scoring presence around the rim, he was finding the right guys to kick it out to, which should've been Curry's job.
I believed you called the Lee factor before the series. HE definitely helped them last night.
I can see Lee being used more to try and generate some offense, but if Draymond/Barnes don't shoot 2-for-18, it's a non-issue.
I'd like to see Cleveland pull this off, but I'm still putting my money on Golden State.
Steph Curry was the MVP of the league and this is by far the biggest game of his career. He needs to ball out, because if he does then his team is just too strong for even an epic LeBron performance to overcome imo.
Delly has been the man, but I think JR is the Cav that really needs to step tonight. He needs to hit those wild JR shots and approach 20 pts as LeBron's secondary scorer tonight if they want to win imo.
Both teams' frontcourt rotations should be interesting to watch. The outcome tonight could come down to a chess match between Blatt and Kerr.
Blatt's done a good job but I don't really know how much of an impact he's making. He's playing LeBron 47 MPG and playing the only he can play due to the injuries killing his bench. The two most notable Blatt stories from this post-season have been him calling a TO that he didn't have (idiotic) and having his call of LeBron inbounding the ball at the end of the Bulls game be overturned by LeBron who went on the hit the buzzer-beater.
One man has never beaten a Lebron team. Thats why teams like SA always killed him because they kill you from everywhere. GS cannot score inside or get to the line. Relying on shooters against Cleveland is a recipe for a disaster?
Can Curry and Klay do it? Yeah, but if they do it for 43% of the series, they lose.
Draymond Green, as much as I enjoy seeing him struggle, really needs to man up and hit some big shots tonight.
Cleveland is saying they want everyone else to knock down 3s to beat them (except Klay)
they are leaving the roller wide open, and the corner 3 from iggy or barnes wide open... baiting them to shoot... and its working.
let Curry isolate 1 on 1 and you will see Deladova either foul out or get torched unless steph is flat out missing. Have him run off screens and catch with an iso.
they continue to NOT do that... and curry has suffered because of it.
If Moz did not turn he would not have been called for the foul.
nice of them
If they are actually getting called LESS than the Cavs, I'd bet heavily in their favor.
The nba is a crooked, second rate, garbage bag organization.
I doubt it... any team that wants him will know the Warriors will match a low offer. Their whole team is learning during the pkayoffs and finals. The Warriors won't hold a small sample size slump against him.
after game 1 you swore off the series-
It's the NBA playoffs... it will be.
Bingo.
He's grabbing and holding all series. It wouldnt shock me if he has a hidden injury. But he has had countless loose ball fouls on Moz and TT when they go for offensive rebounds.
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Just because Bogut picked up some dumb fouls within the past hour doesn't automatically mean he'd pick up dumb fouls in the future.
He's grabbing and holding all series. It wouldnt shock me if he has a hidden injury. But he has had countless loose ball fouls on Moz and TT when they go for offensive rebounds.
Because he is not this bad of a player.
Yes. It was such a generic, dumb speech. And the buffet table behind him made it even funnier.
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find coaches trying to motivate these players funny? They dont seem to try way too hard.
Yes. It was such a generic, dumb speech. And the buffet table behind him made it even funnier.
I thought it looked quite tasty.
And Barnes needs to sit.
Yeah it looks that way, rooting for Lebron is a lot of fun.
Bodes badly.
Have you seen how many open looks the Warriors are getting that just aren't going in as usual?
i dont care if they are open looks... they are what cleveland wants... that is not a good thing...
and the high screen and roll is what is starting it all... run something different for christs sake
That's the biggest factor in my opinion. THopson is just a beast... utterly relentless.
They have sucked tonight, minus Shumps defense..... but they have stepped up all playoffs for the Cavs. They are being defended like they should be. When given open looks, they have for the most part.... made them.
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I just wanna know if AGF still thinks Phil lost that trade...
They have sucked tonight, minus Shumps defense..... but they have stepped up all playoffs for the Cavs. They are being defended like they should be. When given open looks, they have for the most part.... made them.
They're two of the dumbest players on the court at all times.
So he makes 2 shots, and now he is havign a great game? He wasnt a factor in the first 3 quarters. I have no problem standing by that notion. He was 4-11 from the floor with 3-4 turnovers. Thats not good at all.
Now he is playing well. Doesnt change what he did the first 3 quarters.
Beat me to it!
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You really stick your foot in your mouth so much lol
So he makes 2 shots, and now he is havign a great game? He wasnt a factor in the first 3 quarters. I have no problem standing by that notion. He was 4-11 from the floor with 3-4 turnovers. Thats not good at all.
Now he is playing well. Doesnt change what he did the first 3 quarters.
But he's having an impact. You said he wasn't. I didn't say he was playing great. I said he's having an impact now lol
I'd wave the white flag soon if I'm cleveland and rest LeBron
I'd wave the white flag soon if I'm cleveland and rest LeBron
Maybe you're right. It just sucks.
I go to the supermarket a lot on Tuesdays. Less crowds.
Just got out of work so I didn't see the game, but there's still zero doubt that the Knicks lost that trade. Cleveland literally gave up nothing to get them. We lost in the sense that we gave up 2 assets for nothing. As far as tanking though, the move had to be done. I've maintained both those stances from the get go.
Cleveland got a guy that is averaging 12 ppg in the playoffs. I think they're perfectly fine with that and would do that trade again in a heartbeat.
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I just wanna know if AGF still thinks Phil lost that trade...
Just got out of work so I didn't see the game, but there's still zero doubt that the Knicks lost that trade. Cleveland literally gave up nothing to get them. We lost in the sense that we gave up 2 assets for nothing. As far as tanking though, the move had to be done. I've maintained both those stances from the get go.
Cleveland got a guy that is averaging 12 ppg in the playoffs. I think they're perfectly fine with that and would do that trade again in a heartbeat.
I disagree and always will. They weren't going to get anything for them. I am pretty sure they didn't just take the first deal that came to them.
But he is an excellent defender. And his ability to defend curry and klay has let Lebron save whatever energy he can on defense.
[quote]I disagree and always will. /quote]
That's what makes sports so entertaining. Sometimes theres no clear right or wrong. I can't ever foresee myself as that trade being a win for us. We got rid of 2 guys who have legitimate value for nothing in return. Easiest move to ever make. I could make that move. And I've forgotten to shave half my face before.
You keep talking about legitimate value, but literally not one team in the NBA was willing to give up anything of value to get both of them.
Rough game from LeBron. As historic as his overall floor game has been in this series, his shooting has just been dreadful not only in this game but the entire playoffs. You have to figure that one of these games LeBron is going to get hot and have a monster game. He's due a good shooting night.
JR has been trash, he needs to grow a pair of balls and show up.
You keep talking about legitimate value, but literally not one team in the NBA was willing to give up anything of value to get both of them.
This is my contention. On the surface you'd think they'd have value but clearly they didn't. I am sure the fact that everyone and their mother knew the Knicks were trying to move them made whatever value they had a moot point.
It was reported that LeBron didn't even care about getting Shumpert and saw the deal and was just excited to add JR Smith to the team.
I am also glad Jackson called on Lebron. I dont blame Lebron one iota for having a bad game, it happens. But he was bad tonight. And they go the game back to a 1 possession game and he couldnt bring them over the top.
He deserves the praise when they win, but he does deserve some heat for this game.
It was reported that LeBron didn't even care about getting Shumpert and saw the deal and was just excited to add JR Smith to the team.
So players on bad teams have no value? Yeah, no.
I'll take three more no shows like that gladly.
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While shopping him? For all we know we got a shit offer (that was better than nothing) and turned it down. The legitimate value is that he puts points on the board and is a solid defender. Yeah they received no offers by the time he got traded because it's hard to have any value when you're on a shit team. Especially with the type of player JR Smith is. His value is at his best when he has something to play for. He showcased that in his SMOY season.
It was reported that LeBron didn't even care about getting Shumpert and saw the deal and was just excited to add JR Smith to the team.
So players on bad teams have no value? Yeah, no.
Does JR Smith have more value now than he did on the Knicks? What about Shumpert? Would Draymond Green be getting a max deal if he was playing for the Timberwolves this year?
I am also glad Jackson called on Lebron. I dont blame Lebron one iota for having a bad game, it happens. But he was bad tonight. And they go the game back to a 1 possession game and he couldnt bring them over the top.
He deserves the praise when they win, but he does deserve some heat for this game.
Delly blows. Limited player. Whether the officials or the league told him to cut rugby moves, he was a non-factor.
When role players are forced to be lead guys on the court- they don't play well- shumpert is an excellent roll player- but on a team counting on him to score he looks poor
It's also pathetic to jump on these 2 players right now- where were you guys in the Bulls and Hawks series? When they were... You know contributing heavily to an nba finals run-----
This attempt to justify Phil moves is comical- when he makes a good one we can all celebrate him- so far he hasn't just call a spade a spade-----
Yay we got rid of 2 guys- 1 with a "bad contract all of 1y and 6m"--- these guys were so bad they helped the cavs have the best 2nd half record and make the finals----- oh and we got this great contract of Jose Calderon too---- yay---
Good lord
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is absolutely KILLING GS again. What a fucking no show again.
I'll take three more no shows like that gladly.
Again, he was a no show for 3 quartets. If he plays like he has in 4th the last two games... you're fine. But that's a dangerous gsme to play to wait until the last quarter.
he gets going this series when he has some space and can be creative.
When role players are forced to be lead guys on the court- they don't play well- shumpert is an excellent roll player- but on a team counting on him to score he looks poor
It's also pathetic to jump on these 2 players right now- where were you guys in the Bulls and Hawks series? When they were... You know contributing heavily to an nba finals run-----
This attempt to justify Phil moves is comical- when he makes a good one we can all celebrate him- so far he hasn't just call a spade a spade-----
Yay we got rid of 2 guys- 1 with a "bad contract all of 1y and 6m"--- these guys were so bad they helped the cavs have the best 2nd half record and make the finals----- oh and we got this great contract of Jose Calderon too---- yay---
Good lord
You have been on this crusade to kill the Knicks for this trade a lot lately. But I don't remember you waxing poetic about these guys while they were on the Knicks. I'm guessing we'd be hard pressed to find a single positive thing that you said about them. You also keep harping on Knicks fans for defending Phil, while you have an incredibly anti Knick sentiment, so it's hard to look at you as an unbiased source here.
I'd love to be able to look back at your comments about JR and Shump while the Knicks were shopping them. I have a feeling your reviews weren't quite as glowing as they are now.
my friend works for the Cavs GM--- I told him they were stealing shumpert at the time, and Smith is a wild card. Smith has been just that... a wild card---
there is no crusade... I just find it comical that 1) knicks fans are now all rooting for LeBron and 2) selectively observe the performance of the 2 players they gave away and comment only when it fits their bias.
I am in the NBA playoffs thread... which gets polluted by knicks fans hoping to justify a trade... so I will comment on said trade.
or a review of the end of game shove to Livingston--- which everyone ignored and could have easily injured livingston
And this doesn't conflict with the idea of a star carrying a lesser team. The better the star is or plays, the lesser the burden on the other 80%. A great star can score a lot, but also create the easiest possible opportunities for the lesser talented role players so that their more limited skills can be put to use.
But if those role players don't knock down their open looks, then it doesn't matter how well the star plays.
For example, just look at Games 3 and 4.
Game 3: Draymond/Green shot 2-for-18 and Klay 6-for-16. If the Warriors hit their open shots, and many of them were wide open, then it doesn't matter how dominant LeBron was.
Game 4: Delly/Shump/JR/Jones shot 7-for-38 from the floor, and 3-for-23 from 3. LeBron was fine, given that he was exhausted. He wasn't spectacular, but he wasn't bad either. He was still drawing double teams when he attacked the rim that allowed Thompson and Mozgov to shine on the offensive glass and he was still kicking it out to his wide open shooters, but they just laid eggs.
Again, he was a no show for 3 quartets. If he plays like he has in 4th the last two games... you're fine. But that's a dangerous gsme to play to wait until the last quarter.
Fortunately he's playing a game in which the amount of quarters is 4.
Plus, I mean... sure, he wasn't hitting *every* shot, but 4-11 isn't exactly some insurmountably bad performance. You're just 3 makes from .500 at that point. And he hit some threes at opportune times to help maintain the lead against the inevitable run that always tends to happen, on the road.
So, like, he's not a problem.
You are not kidding. It's really bad.
But since it was on Green, I am glad they called it.
Hey look! Delly arm locking another NBA player. Dirtiest mother fucking player in the NBA, and they dont do anything to him.
its just pathetic
They arent even trying to hide it now.
Well they just called it on Draymond on Lebrons drive. Lebron gets away with a forearm EVERY TIME he goes to the basket.
please come to the thread and complain on every lebron interior shot where there is a push off is well.
These refs have been fucking atrocious tonight.
its a total absolute joke...
just said the same thing--- entirely agree- its almost clear path
He's not dirty... He's "gritty"
he fouls and holds curry no less then 3 times every possession... when on the ball hes allowed to be pre hand check rule ron harper... off the ball hes allowed to just hold the entire time.
its amazing they let a scrub do that.
Iggy is the man.
These refs have been fucking atrocious tonight.
The Warriors are still new in the elite team territory. Next year they'll be getting those calls.
He's gonna need to keep it up if the Cavs have any chance tonight.
the series has been full of close games but not great play.
the first half was closer to strong play... which was nice.
Moz is going to have to play some roll in the 2nd half- they cant keep him on the bench all game.
lol, you are joking, right?
Steph
Your missing a good game
He has shot double digit free throws every game so far. And hes at 7 tonight. I'd say he has gotten a few calls.
Such a dumb basketball player
Just ridiculous...
Curry is the quickest step back shooter i've seen in a long long time.
JR went off early but hasn't done anything in the 2nd half. They need him to put 4 quarters together to even have a shot to win game 6.
Games 2-3 were fools gold. Curry wasn't going to continue shooting like that and Delavadova was going to come crashing back down to earth.
Cavs rebounding has been outstanding all series. And TT has been the Cavs 2nd best player. Plus Love sucks defensively.
If Cleveland has a healthy roster this series is ending tonight with the Cavs winning. Hope they all come back next year and win it, I know the Knicks have no shot so i want to see that city win a title
JR went off early but hasn't done anything in the 2nd half. They need him to put 4 quarters together to even have a shot to win game 6.
Games 2-3 were fools gold. Curry wasn't going to continue shooting like that and Delavadova was going to come crashing back down to earth.
So they definitely have no chance in a game 7 when they have the best player on the planet? And they already won a game there? They can't find fools gold one more time? This game isn't exactly a blowout either.
It's an entirely different series with those guys yes but it's not clear Cleveland would win... That's just lazy saying that
Curry isn't a pimple on LeBron's ass. If LeBron doesn't win MVP of this series they need to stop giving out the award.
It's an entirely different series with those guys yes but it's not clear Cleveland would win... That's just lazy saying that
Dellavadova's defense is not that great. Curry missed a ton of looks he hits in his sleep, he did it in game 1 before Irving got hurt.
The Cavs offense would be a million times better with Kyrie on the floor. And it would not be that much worse defensively, Dellavadova is not some great defender. He plays his ass off but Curry's issue was more curry than it was delly. He's now hitting the shots he missed in games 1-3
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I don't think you comprehend how much worse their defense would be and how many open looks the Warriors would have had
It's an entirely different series with those guys yes but it's not clear Cleveland would win... That's just lazy saying that
Dellavadova's defense is not that great. Curry missed a ton of looks he hits in his sleep, he did it in game 1 before Irving got hurt.
The Cavs offense would be a million times better with Kyrie on the floor. And it would not be that much worse defensively, Dellavadova is not some great defender. He plays his ass off but Curry's issue was more curry than it was delly. He's now hitting the shots he missed in games 1-3
Cavs best chance was to play physical defense and hope to keep the game close whether Irving was playing or not. Warriors have too many shooters.
Agreed- it's absurd to say if they losers 6 that a guy wins the m v p.
Lose 4 games.... Win 2.... Win m v p?
That would be odd
I guess if you are a newly converted cav fan and Lebron jersey owner then it makes sense
That means worse defense and less touches for Lebron.
Then rename the award the MVP of the winning team.
Otherwise, it's not debatable. LeBron is by far the most valuable player in this series
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in the NBA. That alone makes this a closer series. He would have opened up the offense.
That means worse defense and less touches for Lebron.
Less touches for LeBron would be a good thing, not a bad thing. He's shooting a ton more than he wants to, and isn't shooting a good percentage because they literally have no one else to worry about guarding. JR Smith for one half they were worried about having an open shot. LeBron can pass the ball to Thompson under the basket and he'll take his good old time getting the shot off. They literally have no one on the court at any point who can get their own shot.
They can't even take him off the court for more than a minute because their lineup is so bad when he's not out there.
Dellavadova is a scrub who hit a couple miracle shots and got credited for "Great" defense on Curry when the reality is Curry missed a ton of shots that he hits in his sleep. And he's now hitting them, and Delly is still on him.
Iggy was great tonight besides his embarrassing FT shooting.
The idea that they wouldn't be significantly better with Irving on the floor is so ridiculous that it's giving me a headache. Delly is a scrub!!!!!!
Kyrie blows defensively.
The idea that they wouldn't be significantly better with Irving on the floor is so ridiculous that it's giving me a headache. Delly is a scrub!!!!!!
Well can't you say the same about lebron being that he he hasn't guarded guarded soul all series. He basically plays thr middle of the lane and backs off iggy or barnes.
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that the losing team should not have the MVP winner.
Then rename the award the MVP of the winning team.
Otherwise, it's not debatable. LeBron is by far the most valuable player in this series
Then he should have won it last year, right?
Delavadova has none.
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In comment 12327592 dep026 said:
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that the losing team should not have the MVP winner.
Then rename the award the MVP of the winning team.
Otherwise, it's not debatable. LeBron is by far the most valuable player in this series
Then he should have won it last year, right?
In the series last year? He was definitely not the most valuable with how he played. They weren't even competitive in any of the 4 losses.
He has made every game in this series competitive, outside of game 4. And even then it was a 1 basket game in early 4th. This team if you took him off of it would be Knicks bad.
Comparing last year to this year is mind numbing. He wasn't the most valuable last year, he did not have a very good finals and they got taken to the woodshed. You're not giving the MVP of a series to a guy on a team that didn't even compete.
I think you can argue that the Warriors have the next 6 or 7, depending on how much you like JR.
I agree with Parcells-reporters are all Commies.. (:
I thought hey were in trouble at halftime when they got a great half from LeBron and Smith had great half and they were still trailing.
The Cavs have a couple of average 6-men as there 2nd and 3rd options in Dellavedova and Smith. That's awful, and downright unbelievable for a team that's actually won 2 games.
No one one the floor can create their own shots without James. No one is active around the basket. I can't remember seeing a team make fewer layups than this team.
This cast of characters is actually worse than the last Cleveland team he brought to the finals.
They have to bring him back. He's going to be way overpaid but they'll be over the cap anyways I think so they almost have no choice. They need both of them back.
With the way Mozgov owned Bogut, I feel like it's safe to say that a healthy Cavs team with Kyrie and Love would've probably won this series in no more than 6 games. But that's something we'll never know.
These games would have been close and down to the wire regardless of who's healthy and who's not. Its next man up and its the finals they were always going to be close.
Also, Lebron is also only able to score when he bumps and pushes off. How that is never called is insane to me.
Thompson is going to get a max offer from someone. Can the Cavs re-sign him and Love?
2) Steph Curry's finals has been underrated.... people don't like to talk about it... but he has been the most double teamed player of the finals. Every possession... bodied and doubled... rarely left alone to play... he gets the hockey assist on almost every basket because he feeds the high post which is left open. His 3pt barrage last night was the best you will ever see in the finals.
3) the absence of interior presence in the NBA finals is embarrassing- any wonder why LBJ is able to back down with total confidence? well its a 6'7 guy waiting for him. the lack of any presence that intimidates or blocks shots down low is 1 reason why I struggle to give as much credit to the current NBA as many stat people like--- its that bad.
4) Blatt has 3 guys playing consistently well in the finals (Lebron at a MVP level, TT at a "grunt guy" level, and Moz)--- you cant play Moz 9 minutes. They are a defensive grind it out team without kyrie and Love... so embrace it--- its not like they are playing some stud over Moz... James Jones? I Mean come on.
5) I don't think the officiating has affected where we stand in the series... but I do think its been horrendous with more blatantly wrong calls then usual---
But if it does go to a Golden State player, then it should be Curry. I am a big fan of Iguodala, and he has played well this series. He has been the only player who has kept LeBron from driving at will, and he has made some key plays in the open court. He has also shot far more consistently than the other role players for either team. In my mind, he has been the second most valuable Warrior this series. But just because it's a great story that the former starter who took the bench role is now shining and exceeding expectations more in the finals than in the regular season, I don't think it necessarily means that he was more valuable than the top dog on the team.
Cleveland was always going to be limited offensively, and Golden State was always going to win this series by scoring on Cleveland's defense. And offensively, it has always been about Curry, even when it doesn't seem like it has been about Curry. He leads his team in points and assists. When he has the ball, take note of how far out Cleveland has to guard him. He draws out at least one Cav beyond the 3 point line, and because of his quickness and handles, he often draws out two Cavs.
Not only does this create all the space in the world, but his presence nearly guarantees a wide open player from 3 or slashing the lane on every single possession. Most of what Iggy/Barnes/Draymond have scored are the byproduct of the advantages created by Curry's handles and lethal shooting. Just think how often those guys are wide open in the corner just waiting for the second pass to them for the easiest 3 point look in the game.
Plus, his shooting/scoring have been better than what people are giving him credit for. Too much was placed on this narrative of Dellavedova shutting him down. In credit to Dellavedova, all of the clutching and gamesmanship he does is being allowed by the refs, and he does hustle and give max effort on every defensive possession. You need a guy like that. But he can't go a full game. And part of his defensive success was burning out by going too hard from the first whistle. But the game is four quarters long and if you're gassed 3 quarters through and can't make it till the end, then those points at the end still count against his defense. Plus, he lucked out by a miserable game 2 shooting from Curry.
And even with that miserable 2-for-15 shooting from 3, Curry is still sitting at 40.7% from 3 over the finals. Just let that sink in. That is incredible.
In other words, if you take out Curry's miserable Game 2, then over the other four games of the Finals, Curry is shooting 20-for-39 from 3 (51.2%).
And even more amazing, over the last 3 games (since the series was tied 1-1), Curry is shooting 18-for-33 (54.5%) from 3.
He leads
Otherwise I think it goes to Curry. It belonged to Iggy for GS until last night.
I mean, it's almost as if the Warriors are comprised of young players and inexperienced coaches figuring out how to become a Finals-caliber team and that a bumpy ride could have been expected. Who's their most playoff-experienced person? Leandro Barbosa. Oh and speaking of him, is Kerr now validated in giving him playing time after he put up 13 points in a vital stretch a vital game?
But I'm expecting a 10+ pt Warriors win with LeBron playing poorly by his standards due to the short rest. Really hope he pulls something epic out of his ass, they're just too shallow and limited to compete with a great Warriors team.
Biggest Sporting even in Cleveland in a long long time. I hope that crowd brings it. One thing to watch out for is the crowd reaction if the Cavs are down in the 4th quarter. Those fans cannot get scared and depressed and kill the energy in that arena, they have to keep it going for 48 mins to give the Cavs a real homecourt advantage because they need every little advantage they can get. The Warriors are great, but young and inexperienced when it comes to closing out Championships.
Hopefully the Cavs grind their way to a Game 7.
some crazy Lebron-related stats I've seen
Tom HaberstrohVerified account
@tomhaberstroh
In the Finals, LeBron James has 44 assists and 15 turnovers. All other Cavs have 37 assists and 42 turnovers.
Dan McCarney @danmccarneySAEN Jun 15
Per http://NBA.com , Cleveland's O in the 22 minutes LBJ hasn't played in Finals:
18.2 FG%, 00.0 3pt%, 54.6 pts/100 poss, -39.2 net.
(Cavs score 97.2 pts/100 poss wit LeBron on the court)
@ESPNStatsInfo
LeBron James: averaging 31.9 points in 14 career elimination games, highest in NBA history (min. 5 such games) (via @EliasSports)
I don't expect the Cavs to win tonight-- I expect a double-digit win for the Warriors. But I'm hoping to see what, if anything, LeBron has left in the tank.
I would also run some sets for other players on offense. Part of the reason these guys are shooting so poorly is because they stand around all shot clock and wait to maybe get a pass for a shot. Even when open its not easy if you dont pass/cut get in the flow.
I hope Steph has another good game, GS wins, and he walks away with the MVP as he shold. 25 5 and 5 and people act like GS doesnt have someone deserving of MVP. and an epic rebuttal to some sick lebron shots last game to take the series lead in the clutch.
I think what happened was everyone held on to their tickets for game 6, or priced them insanely on the open market and none of them sold. They were holding or pricing them like that incase they were up 3-2, which would have almost certainly meant a sellers market, maybe the craziest sellers market we've ever seen. When they lost the other night, tons of tickets probably went onto the secondary market to get whatever they can for a game that can't clinch.
36.6 Points
12.4 rebounds
8.8 assists
39.9 FG%
71% free throw percentage
45.6 minutes per game
Jordan 93 Finals:
41 PPG
8.5 rebounds
6.3 assists
56.4 FG%
70% from the line
45.6 minutes per game
Obviously two historic finals, but Jordan was much more efficient on the offensive end. And for all the bellyaching that Jordan got all the calls..... he went to the line 49 times in 6 games where Lebron has gone to the line 59 times in 5 games.
But on the other hand, if that Jordan played this year's Warriors, he'd have gone to the line 400 times by now.
I kid! Kind of.
But seriously about the fouls. One of the things the two Warriors losses in these finals have had in common that was not an issue in their three wins? An even bigger free throw disparity than the Warriors typically face, and that's saying something. I'm not feeling so great about the Warriors not repeating that in a game 6 on the road, particularly when it, shall we say, benefits the NBA if this series goes one more game.
Curry and Iguodala have both said publically that this will be the hardest game of their lives so far. They know what's at stake and they know what's ahead of them. Let's see what happens!
sub 40% shooting on a team that would win 2 games and lose 4 games.... deserves the MVP.... makes total sense--- 25 5 and 5 and came up biggest in the biggest spot. AND is the guy being doubled all series... not lebron .... steph.
Has Lebron had a great serires? hell yes... hes doing what he should have done in 2011. But is it so great and efficient that losing in 6 games warrants MVP with inefficient shooting and a guy putting up 25 5 and 5?--- a guy who the oppponent double teams at 30 feet out opening up the ENTIRE floor for his teammates?
i dont think so. you can make an argument for Lebron for MVP but your speak as if your comment is fact... and frankly its not
36.6 Points
12.4 rebounds
8.8 assists
39.9 FG%
71% free throw percentage
45.6 minutes per game
Jordan 93 Finals:
41 PPG
8.5 rebounds
6.3 assists
56.4 FG%
70% from the line
45.6 minutes per game
Obviously two historic finals, but Jordan was much more efficient on the offensive end. And for all the bellyaching that Jordan got all the calls..... he went to the line 49 times in 6 games where Lebron has gone to the line 59 times in 5 games.
Care to compare Pippen's stats with Delly's?
But all we hear is how Lebron is doing things we havent seen before, when in fact - Jordan's 93 finals were better. Sure Jordan had more help. But Lebron's shooting, lets face it, has been a huge problem. Jordan shot 17% better from the floor. If Jordan shot less than 40% like Lebron has, maybe Phoenix beats the Bulls? Remember the Bulls won all 4 games by single digits...
Lebron has missed a TON of shots this series that he should have made. For the first 3 games, they didnt double him, and he still shot poorly.
And for every call they missed on Lebron driving, they probably have missed 2x the amount he has gotten away with leading with his forearm drving to the basket, and clearing out with his shoulder in the post.
Yes, we are talking about Lebron's stats. Not Delly. Delly doesnt miss the shots that Lebron takes the last time I checked.
LeBron shooting has been a problem in this entire playoff run and ultimately his inconsistent shooting is the reason why he will never be known as the hands down GOAT like he could've been. But what makes him special is the all-around game. Not only is he the team's only offensive option, he's the best defender on the team and dominating the boards. There has never been a one-man wrecking crew like LeBron.
LeBron shooting has been a problem in this entire playoff run and ultimately his inconsistent shooting is the reason why he will never be known as the hands down GOAT like he could've been. But what makes him special is the all-around game. Not only is he the team's only offensive option, he's the best defender on the team and dominating the boards. There has never been a one-man wrecking crew like LeBron.
Couple things Ill disagree with:
1. He has gotten easy shots and a ton of shots around the basket that he has missed. Even mook commented on his left handed hook shot in the lane has been a problem. And lets not forget he wasnt doubled for the majority of this series either. And, I think Jordan had a lot of attention offensively. He was a pretty good player if I recall.
2. Lebrons defense this series hasnt been bad, but not of what we are accustomed too. Lets face it, if he had to defend like he has had to in years past, he would not be walking anymore. He is getting his break on defense to conserve whatever energy he can. How many times has he guarded Rose, durant, parker, etc in key games? He hasnt guarded Curry once. And I am not saying there isnt anything wrong with that. But he isnt playing all-world defense this series.
LeBron shooting has been a problem in this entire playoff run and ultimately his inconsistent shooting is the reason why he will never be known as the hands down GOAT like he could've been. But what makes him special is the all-around game. Not only is he the team's only offensive option, he's the best defender on the team and dominating the boards. There has never been a one-man wrecking crew like LeBron.
his individual defense has been invisible--- he guards the garbage guy and when they switch he has been a non factor.
his defensive rebounding has been awesome but lets not act like he has had any remote defensive impact. hes gotten caught lazy on no help as well. why? because he has to carry them entirely on offense.
The entire offense has to run through him every time down the court. He has to initiate each possession. Every rebound he doesn't get, he has to be the guy who gets the ball on the outlet. Every defensive possession, he's got to guard a lethal shooter.
Obviously when a guy is the best in the world, you expect him to shoulder a very heavy load.. but what he's got on his plate in this series is basically other worldly.
If you flipped Curry and LeBron, the Cavaliers don't see a 5th game in this series. Zero chance.
Forget Pippen. If LeBron had Horace Grant instead of Tristan Thompson, the Cavs probably win this series in 5 or 6. The supporting casts were night and day.
What Jordan did in '93 was insane. Maybe the best performance ever. But comparing their stats like it's some apples to apples comparison is just pointless. Jordan was asked to be the the "scorer/killer" and he did it at the highest level we've seen in the Finals that year. LeBron is asked to be the "everything".
Hopefully JR Smith shows up for all 48 tonight. He's the guy that really needs to step up and give LeBron help.
The entire offense has to run through him every time down the court. He has to initiate each possession. Every rebound he doesn't get, he has to be the guy who gets the ball on the outlet. Every defensive possession, he's got to guard a lethal shooter.
Obviously when a guy is the best in the world, you expect him to shoulder a very heavy load.. but what he's got on his plate in this series is basically other worldly.
If you flipped Curry and LeBron, the Cavaliers don't see a 5th game in this series. Zero chance.
Arc, you are off with his defensive presence. He has guarded Curry/Klay maybe 1% of the series. He has guarded Iggy and Barnes the whole series and jsut sat in the lane daring them to shoot.
Forget Pippen. If LeBron had Horace Grant instead of Tristan Thompson, the Cavs probably win this series in 5 or 6. The supporting casts were night and day.
What Jordan did in '93 was insane. Maybe the best performance ever. But comparing their stats like it's some apples to apples comparison is just pointless. Jordan was asked to be the the "scorer/killer" and he did it at the highest level we've seen in the Finals that year. LeBron is asked to be the "everything".
Hopefully JR Smith shows up for all 48 tonight. He's the guy that really needs to step up and give LeBron help.
I cant sit here and say what Jordan did defensively in the 93 finals, cause honestly I dont remember. But I think it would be hard pressed to say Lebron was a better defender because he hasnt defended. Jordan had the likes of Majerle and KJ in the backcourt. So if I were too assume, he had to chase Majerle around, which was no small feat.
I dont think anyone is disagreeing with it. But what I am sayying is that he hasnt had the defensive impact that he has had in years past because they need to save him for offense.
And let us all agree this national anthem singer totally kicked ass. Good for her.
I will always contend James' career would be on par with Jordan, Magic and Russel if he played under a great coach. Skill and talent he's on par, but he's never turned in a dynasty type run like those guys and I blame that on bad coaching. He's never played in a system that exploited guys on the roster top to bottom.
That's all they ever show of the coaches on TV. You don't honestly think he's not ever talking strategy, do you? The teams arent going to allow them to show that
21-4 free throw disparity? Scott Foster in the game? Seems about right.
He's just not been particularly present for much of the series.
So they should ignore the foul even though the ref was blowing his whistle at basically the same exact time as he grabs it?
A foul is a foul. You don't ignore it because it's going to be a guys 4th
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on a call that didnt need to be made. Thompson got that reboudn no problem.
So they should ignore the foul even though the ref was blowing his whistle at basically the same exact time as he grabs it?
A foul is a foul. You don't ignore it because it's going to be a guys 4th
See I disagree. TT had the rebound despite the jostling. No advantage gained. Now if TT didnt get the ball or fumbled it, then you call the foul....
Take the example of Mebrons last foul. If Fezeli dunks it, they dont call the foul. But since he missed it, you get the late whistle.
they create their own issues
Cleveland will be in the bonus soon as well.
Time to step up
You're kidding right...
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hasnt gotten help this game. Thompson and Mozgov have killed it.
You're kidding right...
28 points, 24 rebounds, 5 blocks....I'd say thats a really good night for their 2 bigs.
shump fouled the mvp 3 times on 1 play- ABC commentators continue their cavs bias and talk about back court when a ron harper hand check put him there.
lebron with another blatant shove off and no call. he doesnt even do it subtly...its actually comical--- he knows he owns the ref and can do whatever the fk he wants to get the ball and create space.
took over the 4th both scoring and passing.
its not even close- and that doesnt take anything away from lebron... he was dealt a sh% hand... but you cannot give him the mvp.
No need too. She should just pay Delonte's West to do it when they are finished.
No you dont. Live it up man, congrats.
oh shut up. You don't feel conflicted at all, and if you do kick yourself in the nuts.
You sound extremely salty.
You ok bud?
Quote:
went over and slugged Curry's mom right in the mouth
You sound extremely salty.
You ok bud?
She has annoyed me since she was cheering for Duke when Seth was there.
Fuck anyone who cheers for Duke.
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In comment 12331262 MookGiants said:
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went over and slugged Curry's mom right in the mouth
You sound extremely salty.
You ok bud?
She has annoyed me since she was cheering for Duke when Seth was there.
Fuck anyone who cheers for Duke.
God forbid the woman roots for her son
What a bitch
Curry's mom was apparently an awesome basketball and volleyball player in high school and college, and LeBron's mom probably... was not. My money's on Curry's mom.
Cleveland's luck will turn eventually as will the Knicks'.
Bulls' fans obsession with non-calls on LeBron is entertaining. Congratulations to the Warriors, they are a great team. I'm not sure they would have beaten the Spurs though.
I just wanted Cleveland to win a title. Their fans deserve it.
Cleveland's luck will turn eventually as will the Knicks'.
Bulls' fans obsession with non-calls on LeBron is entertaining. Congratulations to the Warriors, they are a great team. I'm not sure they would have beaten the Spurs though.
So you agree that they are non-calls that favor him in the NBA finals? Sorry bud, I have been here throughout the playoffs and Ive called out poor refs in every game.
I would love Barnes on Chicago. How about Barnes for Gibson?
God I hope to one day see the Knicks win one
I've gotten my titles from the Giants Yankees and duke I need a Knicks one
The Knicks have two.
What the fuck.
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Barnes is likely not someone they'll keep when his contract is up... especially if Klay Thompson's dad is right about how they'll pursue: Kevin Durant!!
but iggy shifted the mo of the series. good for him.
What LeBron did in this finals is completely, utterly historic.
I would sure fucking hope he could hit some of those shots.
The series turned when Steph Curry decided to show up. Not because of Andre Iguodala
East Bay basketball fans are seriously as legit as it gets in the NBA. I've been to Oracle countless time when the Warriors sucked and it was rocking and packed. The average fan is also a notch above knowledgeable. I miss watching basketball at George and Walt's. The fans in New York by and large don't know shit here about basketball when you're out.
The Warriors played a parameter focused game all year that I can't believe stayed effective and won a ring. They've been an insanely entertaining team and they have a core that honestly should improve.
Great, great win for the East Bay.
As much as I want to hate the Warriors, I find them to be a likeable bunch outside of Draymond and Bogut. But every team needs a couple of assholes. Curry and Kerr are pure class all the way, nothing but respect for the both of them. And the Bay Area has some of the best NBA fans in the world, those guys always bring it and I'm pretty happy those guys finally have a Championship of their own after decades of Lakers ownage in Cali.
Iggy is my favorite player on the Warriors. He's the guy I'm happiest to see win a ring. And he had a tremendous series. He more than made up for Klay Thompson's poor Finals showing.
But Steph Curry was the MVP. And if it wasn't Steph it was LeBron in a losing effort. Iggy was awesome but you don't give the MVP to a guy who was THOROUGHLY outplayed by the guy he was guarding. Still I'm happy for Iggy and his son's reaction is what it's all about.
Bill Russell might be the GOAT American athlete, sad to see him look so weak and old.
I said this before, Lebron is just snake bit in Cleveland. The cast of clowns he was on the court with this time was far worse than when he lost in Cleveland last time and orders of magnitude worse than any of the Heat teams. But to his legacy despite being the most talented NBA player probably ever he just keeps losing finals. Unfair to him, but just keeps happening.
LeBron has maybe 3 years left of MVP play left. Looking at the pathetic EC landscape, I would be shocked if anyone but the Cavs make the Finals next year. The Hawks will take a dip and it will be some other team's turn to challenge LeBron like the Pacers and Bulls before them. I'm guessing it will be Washington's turn.
Hopefully Durant is healthy out West. He makes the West so much more interesting. Kanter gives the Russ/KD/Ibaka trio a big man who can finally score in the post. I think they could've won the title this year had KD come back healthy.
I wonder how the Spurs play next year. They lost a bloodbath to the Clippers but I still think they were the team with the best chance of exposing the Warriors' weaknesses.
I love the Rockets and I'm proud of their comeback against the Clippers. But the 4 teams who could've dethroned the Warriors this year were #1 the Spurs, #2 a healthy Cavs squad, #3 a healthy Thunder squad, #4 the Clippers. 67 wins and the Championship, but I hesitate on calling Golden State one of the best NBA teams I've ever seen because they had a relatively easy road to the Finals. Doesn't take anything away from the accomplishment but just trying to put them in historical perspective.
Kyrie and Love playing changes everything. Especially Kyrie. The difference between him and Delly alters everything for Cleveland offensively.
They would have been a million times better offensively.
I dont think this series is all that close if they have Love and Irving. Their defense was aided in this series significantly by slowing the game down on offense because of the lack of firepower.
Put Love in for those minutes and they are that much better.
Their chances to actually win this series rested on the shoulders of JR Smith, in other words they had no chance.
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But Kyrie and Love playing big minutes, I don't think that changes anything. That makes them a worse defensive team and defense is how they had even the smallest punchers' chance.
Kyrie and Love playing changes everything. Especially Kyrie. The difference between him and Delly alters everything for Cleveland offensively.
they're not good defensive players thought.
Iguodala played strong defense on LeBron for the times that he guarded him, which wasn't even close to the entire series. But let's be real, here. The Warriors offense runs through Steph Curry. Were people not watching how he draws out the defender beyond the 3-point line-- and often gets double-teamed beyond the 3-point line because of his shooting ability, and then it's his quickness that allows him to pass out of it, and it causes a Warrior to be wide open attacking the hoop, or wide open for a wing 3, or wide open for a corner 3. Steph Curry makes it so that his teammates have the easiest shots in the game.
Saying Iguodala was the MVP over Steph is akin to saying that after seeing the Warriors play for the last 6 games against Cleveland, that if we went back to the first play of Game 1, and one of them would suffer a season-ending injury, that it would have been more detrimental for Iguodala to suffer the injury than Steph. That is absolutely absurd.
The entire dynamic of the series changes. It goes from ugly low-scoring series to a high-octane "my offense is better" series.
And that would've put tons more pressure on Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Iggy, and all of these GS offensive players to hit their shots. They would've needed a much better Klay Thompson performance if they wanted to beat a healthy Cavs team.
Dellavadova is no star, but I don't think Irving wins any kind of defensive matchup against curry the way GS schemes to get him open.
Dellavadova played as hard as you could ever ask a player to play, but the bottom line is that he's simply not very good. Terrible offensively and just OK defensively. Curry was missing shots, then he stopped missing them.
It was more Curry missing shots he hits with his eyes closed than it was anything the Cavs were doing. And the Cavs were griding those games to a halt.
And Golden State looked like Golden State starting in the 4th quarter of game 3 and never looked back after that
Come on.
And somehow having Love and Irving would not have mattered. In a series where the Cavs won two games, had another one go to overtime, and were down by 2 points in the 4th quarter of another.
Amazing.
@SportsCenter
LeBron James is 1st player in NBA Finals history to lead BOTH teams in points, assists & rebounds for entire series.
Missing Love and Kyrie were enormous losses. The Cavaliers didn't have a single other competent ball-handler besides LeBron. This idea that they were okay with Cinderellavedova is absurd. In the 5 games he played since Kyrie went down, he shot 15-for-53 (28%), had 45 points, 16 assists, and 15 turnovers.
And Love would have given the Cavaliers someone who could not only shoot very well and stretch the defense, but also a fantastic passer and rebounder we he stays down low. Even if Tristan gives the team more rim-protecting size, Love is more versatile and not only that, it allows the team to throw in different lineups and keep legs fresher.
Come on.
I think even if they had those guys at full strength Golden State is the better team. They didn't even make it thru the regular season without benching love for game-deciding minutes because of his defense. I feel like GS could have handled them. They're not just a showtime, 3-bombing team. They play hellacious defense,
The only way Cleveland was going to have a chance was to play the type of physical game I don't think Irving and love could play.
Bogut in particular is a super candid, thoughtful, respectful interview who often has a lot of good stuff to say about his opponent.
Draymond Green is most certainly an asshole.
Bogut actually seems cool like you said, but he's a big dirty mofo. Could literally be called for illegal screens every single time he does it, he gets away with it like KG used to get away with it.
Shumpert shot 11 percent inside five feet for the finals
12:32 AM - 17 Jun 2015
207 207 Retweets 192 192 favorites
You have to actually try to suck that bad from that close to put up those type of numbers. Impressive
JR and Shump are two guys whose lack of confidence was easy to see. As much as Delly sucked, atleast he battled out there and didn't back down. JR and Shump just looked like losers out there, aside from the occasional JR hot streak and Shumps' good hands on the defensive side.
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so you think losing an All-Star PG and an All-Star PF and replacing them in the rotation with a guys who belong in the NBDL (Delly and James Jones) actually gave the Cavs a better chance in this series?
Come on.
I think even if they had those guys at full strength Golden State is the better team. They didn't even make it thru the regular season without benching love for game-deciding minutes because of his defense. I feel like GS could have handled them. They're not just a showtime, 3-bombing team. They play hellacious defense,
The only way Cleveland was going to have a chance was to play the type of physical game I don't think Irving and love could play.
I have to disagree with you. Cleveland was the hottest team after the Mozgov trade, I think they'd have more than a puncher's chance. Kyrie and Love would not only allow Lebron to take longer breaks, but they would have kept guys like Delladedova (players who are playing longer minutes and much larger responsibilities than they've ever been asked of before) fresher.
..............James created....James didn't create
Points.........346.....................215
FG pct........43.2....................31.3
3-pt pct......37.3....................16.9
Bogut actually seems cool like you said, but he's a big dirty mofo. Could literally be called for illegal screens every single time he does it, he gets away with it like KG used to get away with it.
He has actually all but admitted doing that in interviews with innuendo.
Sports sure turns people into judgemental and hateful people. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I've heard Draymond Green speak and have read more about him than anyone here, and to assume he's an assholes strikes me as having an axe to grind. In Mook's case I can only guess he went to a school Mook hates, but Osi? C'mom man!
I just don't like Draymond. He is annoying as hell.
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Baxter Holmes
@BaxterHolmes
LeBron says he's almost to the point where he'd rather not even make the playoffs than lose in the Finals, which he's done four times. 26m
He was not great in game 6- he was not good in game 4- and they lost 4 games and won 2.
He was not the m v p
LeBron James Leads Both Teams - NBA Finals
PPG 35.8
APG 8.8
RPG 13.3
>>1st to lead in all categories in Finals history
LeBron James in the 2015 Finals.
G1: 44 p 8 r 6 a
G2: 39 p 16 r 11 a
G3: 40 p 12 r 8 a
G4: 20 p 12 r 8 a
G5: 40 p 12 r 8 a
G6: 32 p 18 r 9 a
I feel like you're looking for something to nitpick when stressing shooting percentage when the context is playing a top defensive team with no competent team around you.
he was the only player on his team allowed to touch the ball-
nit picking would be shooting 43% or something. shooting sub 40% is Iverson level. it may have been what was needed but the number is the number... its a horrible percentage.
the warriors played the game in a way for him to take a lot of shots... likely make a lot... but miss a lot too. that is what happened. just like Curry didn't get as many stats because the cavs game plan was to double him every possession off the pnr.
saying a guy who lost a series 4-2 shouldn't have won the mvp is not nit picking.
And lets not make it seem like he was doubled every possession or he was constantly running through and around screen. He had the ball single covered for the majority of the series.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
Jordan's 93 finals were better.
Aside from wanting Lebron to shoot better, I'm not what else you could've asked of him though. He set his teammates up for constant open 3s, open lanes to the basket, etc. etc. His passing really is excellent.
We can call out the shooting percentage, but his performance was still arguably the most dominating a performance as has ever been seen in the history of the NBA finals.
I have been making the Iverson comp all finals- comparing this team to the philly team... Iverson got 1 game off a 3 peat lakers squad that was MASSIVELY better then this warrior team ( I don't care about advanced stats I watched both series). does he get a lifetime achievement award?
Lebron has received enough well deserved praise for a heroic attempt at leading a band of bums to the finals- but that doesn't mean you get the MVP because the game was set up for you to get all the stats and you got them.
You mention Iverson, and it's funny. He's basically playing with the same team Iverson made the finals with when Aaron McKie was his co-star.
Lebron has received enough well deserved praise for a heroic attempt at leading a band of bums to the finals- but that doesn't mean you get the MVP because the game was set up for you to get all the stats and you got them.
The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him. The closest he came to that is a past his prime and/or injured Wade and a shallow, hastily constructed Heat team that was never really well built for success.
The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him. The closest he came to that is a past his prime and/or injured Wade and a shallow, hastily constructed Heat team that was never really well built for success.
He has been getting slobbered over all series. And he has picked and choose the teams he wanted to play with for the last 5 years.
nobody is talking 2-4--- and if they are they are making excuses for it... they don't even mention the 6 appearances are the benefit of a garbage east...
A guy can play great and not win the MVP. A guy can play great and still have some poor parts to his stats. this is all allowed.
I just think the performance justified the consideration for it, and there's precedent for it.
Ultimately it's unimportant. It's a series MVP award. You could've given it to Curry and it would've been accepted as well. Iguodala winning it I understood too.
He did give them 7 years to do it. I think the best they did was Boobie Gibson and Jamario Moon.
Giving it to Iguodala is an absurd choice, meant to fit a false narrative and nice storyline.
I wish I could see the data as to when Iguodala actually guarded LeBron, because as my memory serves, in the first half of hte series, he was only really guarding him in the 4th quarter when LeBron was gassed but still forced to carry the loads.
Later in the series, he guarded him more frequently, but still not all game. So if Iguodala was so masterful in his defense on LeBron, then why didn't he guard him all game?
And Iguodala's offense was predicated entirely on what Steph Curry did to give him the leasiest layups or wide open shots he could ever ask for.
I don't know how you can watch what LeBron did this series, and then say the most valuable player in the series was the guy defending him.
Lebron got less help in these finals than any other time in NBA history. His team was laughably bad. HE had a fucking D league team out there with him. Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor. Get that? Timofy fucking Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor.
No player is carrying that Cavs team to the finals let alone winning them against one of the better all time regular season teams to come along in quite some time.
Curry should have been the mvp though.
Hell, screw Pippen. LeBron's fortunes in the finals could be quite different if he merely had a Bill Cartwright or Horace Grant, or even just a Steve Kerr or Kukoc-type coming off the bench, let alone a Pippen or Rodman.
I assumed the Finals would more or less be a cakewalk for the Warriors, but I was sure wrong about the impact a top-3 player in history can have.
in 2010 he had the better team.
they won in 11 and 12.
in 2013 they got flat beat.
this year is the only one where we can discuss supporting cast--- where clearly the injuries left the cupboard bare.
Lebron got less help in these finals than any other time in NBA history. His team was laughably bad. HE had a fucking D league team out there with him. Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor. Get that? Timofy fucking Mozgov was the 2nd best player on the floor.
No player is carrying that Cavs team to the finals let alone winning them against one of the better all time regular season teams to come along in quite some time.
Curry should have been the mvp though.
First off, it would help if you noticed when I made the original statement early in the 3rd when BOTH bigs had double doubles just a few minutes into the 3rd quarter. How is that not helping the cause? If you were to tell me that Lebron got 32 points and 25 rebounds combined from those 2 - he wouldnt be ecstatic? Mozgov and Thompson were more than adequate in this series.
Thompson averaged 10 points and 12 boards for the series.
Mozgov averaged 17 points and 9 rebounds in the 5 games he actually played in.
In what world are those bad numbers? People are claiming that if Lebron had a horace grant.... are you fucking kidding me. The same Horace grant that averaged a whopping 11.4 PPG and 8.7 RPG in the 3 NBA finals he won?
If Lebron shot at any type of reasonable level, they win the series. The man shot under 40%. He was part of the reason why the offense was so bad. His inefficient shooting was one of the problems with the offense. Every one keeps saying he needed to shoot the ball.... well he did, and they lost because of it.
Yeah JR Smith sucked and Delly turned into the clown that he is, but lets not act like they didnt have a shot to win the series. They were right there in 3 of the 4 games.
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The fact that people keep wanting to criticize him for his W/L record in the finals compared to Jordan is evidence of that. There's no Pippen alongside him. No great team or coach behind him.
Hell, screw Pippen. LeBron's fortunes in the finals could be quite different if he merely had a Bill Cartwright or Horace Grant, or even just a Steve Kerr or Kukoc-type coming off the bench, let alone a Pippen or Rodman.
I assumed the Finals would more or less be a cakewalk for the Warriors, but I was sure wrong about the impact a top-3 player in history can have.
Horace Grant: 11.4 and 8.7
Bill Cartwright: 6.3 and 4
Those were the Bulls starting bigs in the first 3 NBA finals.... I fail to see how if they played with Lebron, they would have beaten the Warriors. Cleveland's bigs were more than adequate. As a matter of fact, maybe they should have used Mozgov more since he could actually score.
Yep, that guy! The guy who generally outplayed Rodman and Laimbeer as the Bulls swept the Pistons and generally was the third or fourth leading scorer on the team, after the two guys who usually combined for more than half of their team's points.
I'm not saying that neither Thompson nor Mozgov could hold a candle to Grant, but people often act as though the only competent teammate Jordan benefitted from was Pippen. He had quite a few other key role players the likes of which LeBron would love to play with -- and the likes of which he *has* played with, when he won championships.
1st 3peat Grant was superior to 2nd 3peat Rodman. Grant is woefully underrated historically, if he was an attention whore like Rodman maybe he'd get more respect.
My point was in regards to people saying James had absolutely no help. He did. His bigs came through. They were a force on the boards all series. Mozgov defensive rating was the best of any big in the playoffs. Thompson did a wonderful job doublign Curry on any pick and roll. Those 2 guys were key components to this series. They were not the problems whatsoever. If I told you before the series that Moz and TT would average near 30 points and 21 rebounds a game with supplying good defense - you would have all called me crazy.
The problem was Lebron's inefficient shooting and the other guards were no shows offensively.
'07 Finals he couldn't hit an outside shot
'11 Finals he played like a pussy and was scared to take an outside shot
'15 Finals he couldn't hit an outside shot
LeBron's jumper is the one hole in his overall game. It's been inconsistent over his career and in these playoffs his J was awful. I said before the series that I'd take MJ over LeBron because MJ's outside jumper was far more reliable despite LeBron being the superior player outside of the jumper. I still stand by that opinion.
Despite the monster talent difference between the Warriors and Cavs, the Cavs would've won this series if LeBron's jumper was at the level it used to be at just a couple of years ago.
But realize what this means. We're complaining that a guy who dropped 36/13/8 couldn't shoot well from the outside. If LeBron shot well from the outside while maintaining the rest of his play from these playoffs and Finals, he would have been playing at the highest level of anyone in NBA history by 10 miles. That's how good LeBron is, that we give him a little shit for not being absolutely perfect in all facets of the game.
I think the thing I took away from the Warriors the most is how they could adjust and how calm they were. I give Steve Kerr a lot of credit. I hated his idea to take Bogut out of the series, but it ended up being a great decision.
Shit, I guess I'm not as apathetic about this as I thought -- all these awesome storylines are now emerging.
David Lee too. I'm glad he had has moments in the finals, but I'd have liked him to be yet another story of it-was-all-worth-it redemption.
I wonder how many commercials the Steph Curry family is going to be in over the next couple of months. Riley and his mom could both get TV shows right now lol.
And what needs to be understood was that the Lebron that played in this series wasnt even one of the best Lebrons I ever saw play. I have seen him play at a much higher level in many series, including NBA finals. Some thing to note of this series.
- He shot horribly from the field, 3 point land, and FT line.
- He didnt play any individual defense whatsoever (as was the game plan and just by how much needed he was on offense)
- The Cavs were in every game they lost except for game 4.
When you talk about Lebron, you are speaking of one of the 3 greatest players ever. MJ, Lebron, Magic would be my top 3 because they always have the ball in their hands when its game time and played more of a role than anyone else for their teams. So when you are talking about one of the 3 greatest players ever, you expect him to rise to the occasion. Thats what GOAT players do, they play to the maximum level that carries their team.
Ive seen Lebron take out the others team best players offensively on more than one occassion.
Ive seen Lebron shoot anywhere between 55-60% from the floor for an entire series.
Ive seen Lebron score 25 consecutive points to carry his team to pivotal wins.
Was he asked to do more than any player in NBA history this series? Yeah, but only on the offensive end. People are complaining that Moz was his 2nd best player. Well like I said, he averaged 17 PPG on 55% from the floor..... tell me why they shouldnt have run more stuff for him with a 6'7 guy guarding him? If he is scoring, you feed him. Now is the ideal 2nd choice, absolutely not. But he was effective when given chances.
Lebron took 206 shots in 6 games. Thats just downright insane. He averaged 36 points on 32 shots. I am sorry, but thats not efficient enough. Osi you stated that his jumper has always been inconsistent, well he also became inconsistent around the rim as well. He missed a ton of shots he normally makes.
I am in no shape or form blaming Lebron for the loss. He was magnificent. But its also ok to acknowledge that despite the numbers, he could have done more for them to win.
Yeah, totally lame. And of course, while a game 6 clinching victory is a lot less nerve-racking than having to play a game 7, it would have been nice to win at home in front of Oracle. Holy shit, what a spectacle that would have been. The fireworks in my neighborhood were already going off until 1 am.
It's going to be an interesting next few years for the Warriors. As long as they continue their sudden trend of good health and smart FO moves, they're going to remain a team to be reckoned with. Suddenly they're going to be a coveted FA destination.
Good times! Like I've been saying since November, I want the Giants to achieve what the Warriors have.
Expecting a player with the kind of absurd workload that LeBron had to do everything well is just not realistic. The only way the Cavs win this series is if LeBron had played on a level higher than anyone else in NBA history had played. He came close but ultimately didn't reach that level.
Bogut, Iggy, and Livingston have another 2-3 really good years left in them too. Don't see why they wouldn't bring Barbosa back either. I know he has a lot of bad press on him after the missed dunk, but Speights is more than capable of replacing David Lee's minutes should they trade him. They have the luxury of getting a high risk/reward player in this draft as well.
Tom HaberstrohVerified account
@tomhaberstroh
Without LeBron James on the floor this series.
JR Smith 0/9 FG
Delly 0/7 FG
J. Jones 0/3 FG
Shumpert 0/2 FG
Total 0/21 FG