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To me it's all about OG or DT ....

Manny in CA : 4/18/2015 11:20 pm
At #9, overall.

Keep Eli standing up and revitalize the running game, or ....

Keep offenses (running game) from gouging us.

At that pick, there's only two players worthy at guard - tackle conversions Scherff and Lael Collins

At DT - Shelton (Williams will be gone); Shelton and maybe Brown
Or you can take the best player available...  
Anakim : 4/18/2015 11:31 pm : link
Regardless of position
We've gotta improve the OL and run defense,  
yatqb : 4/18/2015 11:46 pm : link
but you can't disregard talent for position. Imagine OBJ and Dez Bryant on Dallas, with perhaps a lesser OG instead of Martin picked later in the draft. Not a pretty picture, imo.
...  
Toth029 : 4/19/2015 12:02 am : link
Or Offensive Tackle while moving Pugh inside.

Or DE because of the surrounding questions about the guys after JPP. I can see both arguments for the DT-DE positions. Aside from Hankins, there is really no one there long term you are for sure deadset on. Moore needs to step up, JPP needs re-signed, Bromley needs to show himself, etc.

Also cannot forget the possibility of WR or even CB.
I have to agree with you..  
prdave73 : 4/19/2015 12:57 am : link
The Giants either go with a guard or a tackle in the 1st rd. Either Scherff, Collins, or Flowers. If not go with Sheldon if available. I guess it depends how it all pans out, but yea that should be the game plan going into the draft. The draft is deep in the WR position, you can get a good WR in the 2nd rd. Nelson Agholor or Dorial Green-Beckham.
I hear you, guys, but ....  
Manny in CA : 4/19/2015 1:21 am : link
(Especially the specter of Dez & OBJ together), but in the long-run it's about the philosophy that guides you.

Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).

Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.

Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?

If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....

In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.
protect eli  
hutch33 : 4/19/2015 1:41 am : link
thats the #1 goal, he getting older and we have to protect our mvp. giving him time to make plays. giving him a long career.

2. the game is won at the line, and a monster gaurd/tackle who can flat out open holes is what we need.

we cant over think this draft. just grab the man we need and lets roll
I don't like the philosophy of loading Eli's cupboard  
BlueLou : 4/19/2015 5:13 am : link
with sleek shiny toys...

But in 2011 with Nicks, Cruz, and Mario it was ENOUGH!

So there's that...
Manny - I think there is will be starting caliber OL  
DavidinBMNY : 4/19/2015 6:23 am : link
In RD 2 and RD 3 - where the giants pick early.

I wouldn't take an OL @9 unless they had the OL in the same cluster as the other players. @ 9 as well I think the NYG have to be thinking tackle. It has to be a player who can play tackle at some point. The strong indication is they are looking at Lael Collins, Andrus Peat and Erik Flowers.

The other thing is the Giants have a lot of holes. If they can trade down and get 1 more early pick should their be a clear enticing player and the extra pick is around the top 100, have to consider it.
with #9, go OLine if Cooper doesn't fall.  
JohnB : 4/19/2015 7:10 am : link
If he falls, take him!

Didn't the Portland Trailblazers passed on Michael Jordan because they had Clyde "The Glide" Drexler and they didn't need another at that position? They also passed on players like Charles Barkley, Alvin Robertson and Kevin Willis to take Sam Bowie. Wow, that was a mistake if there ever was one.
Taking  
SoZKillA : 4/19/2015 7:39 am : link
A G or DT at 9 makes no sense when you can get the same kind of players in rounds 2-3
Reese is not taking a guard at 9  
Stupendamatic : 4/19/2015 7:41 am : link
Especially when there will be starting caliber guards sitting there at 40.

It's going to be a WR or DL..

You can give Eli toys.....  
Doomster : 4/19/2015 7:53 am : link
But watch most of his interceptions last season....they were results of pressure.....and Eli is not the spring chicken he once was.....there are only so many hits left in that body...

As it stands right now, we are right where we were last season....scrambling to put an OL in front of him....3, possibly 4(if Pugh moves to guard) spots, will have different players in those positions....and where is the depth? The OL is still a house of cards, where one goes down and the rest of the line is affected....

It's imperative that we address the problem with the draft, and also possible cap casualties of other teams...
I have to believe that the Giants will go OL early and often  
JohnB : 4/19/2015 8:02 am : link
since they really didn't do much to shore up the problem in FA. So I have to believe #9 will be OL and maybe #40 too.
My opinion is that we pick up an OL at 40  
Big Blue '56 : 4/19/2015 8:17 am : link
and go D at 9 if a red chip is there..My understanding is that at 8 in Rd 2, the OL that should be available will improve our OL moving forward
RE: I hear you, guys, but ....  
Gmen1982 : 4/19/2015 8:19 am : link
In comment 12239606 Manny in CA said:
Quote:
(Especially the specter of Dez & OBJ together), but in the long-run it's about the philosophy that guides you.

Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).

Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.

Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?

If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....

In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.



Doesn't last year contradict what you said? WR wasn't their greatest need and there were OL (Martin) still on the board.
This recurring theme from various BBI posters  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2015 8:40 am : link
that Giants high draft position is too early too waste on the Guard position is short-sighted.

The pick from available players at that slot needs to consider some balance of items including (but clearly not limited to):
- his long term prospects to be a successful NFL player
- his ability to impact this team in the short term
- depth of players available at his projected position

If, after taking into account all of the above, the guy to take is still a Guard then you go to the podium and don't look back...
.....  
Micko : 4/19/2015 8:51 am : link
I go back and forth on this one. My gut says go OL and DT for 3 days straight and fix these major issues now. However, we all know that BPA is the way to go. No matter how it shakes out though we HAVE to find a starting guard in the draft.
RE: I hear you, guys, but ....  
blueblood : 4/19/2015 8:54 am : link
In comment 12239606 Manny in CA said:
Quote:
(Especially the specter of Dez & OBJ together), but in the long-run it's about the philosophy that guides you.

Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).

Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.

Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?

If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....

In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.


Here is the problem with Best Player Available. Its based on the GIANTS draft board.. which is not a LIST from 1-100 which is how fans think. Players are assigned grades.. basically what Sy'56 does when he grades a player.You could have SEVERAL players bunched together with the same grade..

In that case if the players have the same grade then need could tip the scale in that direction..

The Giants are going by their board.. not Mel Kipers.. Mike Mayock or anyone elses...

Case and point.. everyone had the Giants taking Zack Martin. The Giants had OBJ graded higher,, meaning he was on a higher tier than Martin...

If it happens again this year and there is a WR who is on a different tier than OL.. the Giants will take a WR again..

I see that being only Cooper and White..

Thinking it's OG or DT  
JonC : 4/19/2015 9:08 am : link
tells me you're looking to plug in positions, not to get the best players ...
Those are two positions  
JonC : 4/19/2015 9:12 am : link
that while they are needs, so are OT and DE, which are premium positions, while OG and are not. In a nutshell.
If the Giants grade Shelton and feel he is as good as Hankins  
Andy in Halifax : 4/19/2015 9:12 am : link
I would be cool with him at 9. But that's the value we'd need from a DT imo. Very good against the run AND offers some pass rush (or at the very least, pocket disruption).

If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.
RE: RE: I hear you, guys, but ....  
BMac : 4/19/2015 9:14 am : link
In comment 12239664 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 12239606 Manny in CA said:


Quote:


(Especially the specter of Dez & OBJ together), but in the long-run it's about the philosophy that guides you.

Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).

Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.

Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?

If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....

In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.



Here is the problem with Best Player Available. Its based on the GIANTS draft board.. which is not a LIST from 1-100 which is how fans think. Players are assigned grades.. basically what Sy'56 does when he grades a player.You could have SEVERAL players bunched together with the same grade..

In that case if the players have the same grade then need could tip the scale in that direction..

The Giants are going by their board.. not Mel Kipers.. Mike Mayock or anyone elses...

Case and point.. everyone had the Giants taking Zack Martin. The Giants had OBJ graded higher,, meaning he was on a higher tier than Martin...

If it happens again this year and there is a WR who is on a different tier than OL.. the Giants will take a WR again..

I see that being only Cooper and White..


On the money.
Polian and Mark Levy:  
Big Blue '56 : 4/19/2015 9:22 am : link
If you have a strong conviction on a player you take him no matter where he's "ranked."
RE: If the Giants grade Shelton and feel he is as good as Hankins  
geelabee : 4/19/2015 9:53 am : link
In comment 12239681 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
I would be cool with him at 9. But that's the value we'd need from a DT imo. Very good against the run AND offers some pass rush (or at the very least, pocket disruption).

If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.


people on this board are underestimating Shelton...I strongly believe that the Giants have Shelton high on their list...Tom Coughlin & Co attended the Senior Bowl and had a chance to see for themselves first hand...based on the reports Shelton was basically unblockable giving almost all OL a tremendous amount of difficulty...Clearly Shelton was one of the most impressive players to attend...and a player most experts were linking to the Giants immediately following the SR Bowl...nothing has changed...the Giants are high on Shelton and are likely to take him assuming one of the top 2 WR doesn't fall..
RE: If the Giants grade Shelton and feel he is as good as Hankins  
Stupendamatic : 4/19/2015 9:55 am : link
In comment 12239681 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
I would be cool with him at 9. But that's the value we'd need from a DT imo. Very good against the run AND offers some pass rush (or at the very least, pocket disruption).

If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.


Greg Cosell views Shelton as a Vince Wilfork/Dontari Poe type of player. He thins he can play 3-4 NT but ideally likes him in a 43 shading over the center and two-gapping. That's where he can really put his quickness as a big man on display. The question becomes, can Hankins play the 3-technique? I don't know enough to say with any certainty, but he has pass rush ability and quickness. I'm inclined to believe he can and if the coaches feel that way Shelton could be the pick.

IMO It's a safe assumption Winston, Mariota, Cooper, White, Fowler, Beasley, Williams, and Gregory, will not be an option for one reason or another. I don't believe any of the OL will be in consideration either. This leaves Ray, Shelton, Parker, and Waynes because you can never count out a CB.
I think the WR crop is deep and you can get a real good one in Rd 2  
PatersonPlank : 4/19/2015 9:58 am : link
or Rd 3. I don't buy into this "don't draft a G" theory. If a 10 yr starter type player is there, whether at G or T, you grab him.
RE: I think the WR crop is deep and you can get a real good one in Rd 2  
Giants2012 : 4/19/2015 10:05 am : link
In comment 12239727 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
or Rd 3. I don't buy into this "don't draft a G" theory. If a 10 yr starter type player is there, whether at G or T, you grab him.


+1

RE: RE: I think the WR crop is deep and you can get a real good one in Rd 2  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2015 10:42 am : link
In comment 12239734 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12239727 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


or Rd 3. I don't buy into this "don't draft a G" theory. If a 10 yr starter type player is there, whether at G or T, you grab him.



+1


+2
Have to disagree......  
Doomster : 4/19/2015 10:48 am : link
RE: I hear you, guys, but ....
Gmen1982 : 8:19 am : link : reply


Doesn't last year contradict what you said? WR wasn't their greatest need and there were OL (Martin) still on the board...


I thought WR was a huge need.....Cruz was coming off an injury.....we weren't going to resign Nicks.....Randle hadn't shown anything......we didn't resign the TE.....so who was Eli going to throw to? Jernigan?

Reese screwed the Pooch on the OL, yes.....but now this sinking ship was leaking fore, aft, port and starboard.....however, if he did take Martin and not OBj, we would be talking a possible top 5 pick this year.......

So here is the debate.....would you rather have OBj and the #9 pick, or Martin and a top 5 pick? Because you wouldn't have won as many games without OBj.....
RE: Have to disagree......  
Giants2012 : 4/19/2015 10:53 am : link
In comment 12239772 Doomster said:
Quote:
RE: I hear you, guys, but ....
Gmen1982 : 8:19 am : link : reply


So here is the debate.....would you rather have OBj and the #9 pick, or Martin and a top 5 pick? Because you wouldn't have won as many games without OBj.....


Well, let's be honest. The Giants only won 6 games with OBJ. Would they have won less with Martin? Maybe, maybe not.

I wouldn't second guess the OBJ pick b/c the kid is awesome but we could debate whether the team is as successful with Martin and a better running game.

Regardless, let's face it. With OBJ or Martin this roster is weak. Would this weak roster be better served with one position rather than another? We can debate a WR might be more talented yet would a solid OLman make more of an impact long term? Unless OBJ goes down the Giants cannot draft a #1 receiver b/c they already have one yet can draft a #1 Olinman.

It's a tough debate.
Debate not worth having actually because  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2015 11:24 am : link
Beckham is a super player and he is on our team.

Go find more super players....
BPA has produced....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 4/19/2015 11:53 am : link
....No Playoffs In 3 Years, And 5 Of The Last 6, plus 2 Straight Losing Seasons. Rebuild The O-Line, Please!
RE: BPA has produced....  
blueblood : 4/19/2015 12:15 pm : link
In comment 12239833 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....No Playoffs In 3 Years, And 5 Of The Last 6, plus 2 Straight Losing Seasons. Rebuild The O-Line, Please!


You mean like they did by drafting Pugh in the first round two years ago and drafting Richburg in the second round last year and signing Schwartz who was one of the top rated FA guards when he was signed?

The Giants definitely waited too long to start rebuilding the OL.. but they are doing it.. and it doesnt necessarily have to be done in round one..

But I believe that unless Cooper or White is there.. the Giants will go OL in round one.
Agree with this:  
TMS : 4/19/2015 1:03 pm : link
Greg Cosell views Shelton as a Vince Wilfork/Dontari Poe type of player. He thins he can play 3-4 NT but ideally likes him in a 43 shading over the center and two-gapping. That's where he can really put his quickness as a big man on display. The question becomes, can Hankins play the 3-technique? I don't know enough to say with any certainty, but he has pass rush ability and quickness. I'm inclined to believe he can and if the coaches feel that way Shelton could be the pick.----------- Shelton will fix the defense which sucked last year since Joseph left. We cannot stop the run, it will be a long season again.
Shelton  
Marty866b : 4/19/2015 1:08 pm : link
Not convinced that Shelton isn't a pure nose guard.I'd pass.
Wrong  
PaulN : 4/19/2015 1:47 pm : link
The positions that are probably worthy of the 9th pick will most likely come down to WR or edge rusher. If one of the guys the Giants like are there, they will grab them. The offensive line can be addressed by trading down or just waiting until the 2nd round. None of the top linemen are worthy of the 9th pick. Shelton is a player that may be worthy of the 9th pick, but I am not so sure the Giants view him like that.
Forgot  
PaulN : 4/19/2015 1:50 pm : link
Waynes also at CB would be a possibility also.
Knowing how this regime builds a roster  
JonC : 4/19/2015 2:43 pm : link
I find it hard to believe so many feel that OG is a compelling selection at #9.

DT could make more sense on the surface, but given their high historic bust rate and how this regime tends to go bargain hunting on them, a 3-4 NT doesn't add up either.
JonC  
Marty866b : 4/19/2015 3:07 pm : link
Bingo. Jerry likes playmakers. I know this won't be popular here but if we did trade down(unlikely knowing Reese's history)I wonder if Gurley is in play. He might be the best player in this draft. Of course the doctors would have done their extensive homework on him. ACL injuries are not as devastating as they used to be.
I'd be shocked if they picked a RB that high, Marty  
JonC : 4/19/2015 3:11 pm : link
.
A Strong Run Game...  
Bluesbreaker : 4/19/2015 3:20 pm : link
Will make this offense Top Ten and it will also
help Open up the Passing game as well .
Same for the Defense Adding a Top Level Run
stopper will Improve the Defense Immensely rather have
DT OT Or WR at #1 I would hate it if they went CB
Or Safety too early . Unless we got two #1's with
a Cleveland trade Down then I would heve to consider
Collins at Safety .
JonC  
Marty866b : 4/19/2015 3:40 pm : link
So would I but IF we were a better team without so many needs I believe Gurley would be in play. It's not like we are loaded at the position. I'd say our backfield is mediocre,at best. That being said,there are many good runners in this draft. I threw Gurley's name in there because if you go by the "best player" available theory,Gurley(depends on injury)would most likely be the best at that point. I believe we go Peat if the Giants like him or Sherff if the team believes he would be a outstanding right tackle who could play the left side. I really hope some team is desperate for Parker and we could trade down and pick up another high pick.I don't know if there is anyone who is going to be there at #9 that the team can't select a bit later.
Marty  
JonC : 4/19/2015 4:34 pm : link
RB isn't quite as important as it once was in the NFL, you can win with a good RB rotation. We could definitely use an upgrade, but the #9 overall pick is probably better spent at WR, LT, DE, or CB. imo.
Knowing how this regime has allowed this roster  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2015 11:42 pm : link
to sink to the bottom third of the NFL, I find it hard to believe some feel that OG may not be the potential selection at #9.

This regime is staring at a fairly large re-tooling process if they find themselves "outside looking in" again in 2015.
I've posted many times  
JonC : 4/20/2015 8:41 am : link
why it's not the greatest use of the draft pick.

It's a kneejerk reaction to pick an OG there, unless that player is being projected to OT longterm.
OL vs DT  
Big Blue Fan 74 : 4/20/2015 8:44 am : link
I would love to see us draft an OL or DT in the 1st round. If both players had the same grade, I would rather the Giants draft OL.

I want our team to have an advantage in TOP. I want our defense to be fresh and I want their offense on the bench.

I also want us to have the option of running the ball on 3rd and 2. Far too many years the other team's defense was able to ignore the threat of us running on 3rd and 2 which really hurt us when trying to make first downs.

Finally we all know Coughlin is going to run the ball a lot whether our running game is effective or not, so let's make it effective.
value value value  
JonC : 4/20/2015 9:28 am : link
If the value is there for OG, pick him. But, I'd bet heavily against it.

I doubt they'll pick Shelton or any other DT at #9, it would go against their MO.
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