At #9, overall.
Keep Eli standing up and revitalize the running game, or ....
Keep offenses (running game) from gouging us.
At that pick, there's only two players worthy at guard - tackle conversions Scherff and Lael Collins
At DT - Shelton (Williams will be gone); Shelton and maybe Brown
Or DE because of the surrounding questions about the guys after JPP. I can see both arguments for the DT-DE positions. Aside from Hankins, there is really no one there long term you are for sure deadset on. Moore needs to step up, JPP needs re-signed, Bromley needs to show himself, etc.
Also cannot forget the possibility of WR or even CB.
Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).
Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.
Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?
If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....
In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.
2. the game is won at the line, and a monster gaurd/tackle who can flat out open holes is what we need.
we cant over think this draft. just grab the man we need and lets roll
But in 2011 with Nicks, Cruz, and Mario it was ENOUGH!
So there's that...
I wouldn't take an OL @9 unless they had the OL in the same cluster as the other players. @ 9 as well I think the NYG have to be thinking tackle. It has to be a player who can play tackle at some point. The strong indication is they are looking at Lael Collins, Andrus Peat and Erik Flowers.
The other thing is the Giants have a lot of holes. If they can trade down and get 1 more early pick should their be a clear enticing player and the extra pick is around the top 100, have to consider it.
Didn't the Portland Trailblazers passed on Michael Jordan because they had Clyde "The Glide" Drexler and they didn't need another at that position? They also passed on players like Charles Barkley, Alvin Robertson and Kevin Willis to take Sam Bowie. Wow, that was a mistake if there ever was one.
It's going to be a WR or DL..
As it stands right now, we are right where we were last season....scrambling to put an OL in front of him....3, possibly 4(if Pugh moves to guard) spots, will have different players in those positions....and where is the depth? The OL is still a house of cards, where one goes down and the rest of the line is affected....
It's imperative that we address the problem with the draft, and also possible cap casualties of other teams...
Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).
Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.
Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?
If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....
In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.
Doesn't last year contradict what you said? WR wasn't their greatest need and there were OL (Martin) still on the board.
The pick from available players at that slot needs to consider some balance of items including (but clearly not limited to):
- his long term prospects to be a successful NFL player
- his ability to impact this team in the short term
- depth of players available at his projected position
If, after taking into account all of the above, the guy to take is still a Guard then you go to the podium and don't look back...
Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).
Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.
Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?
If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....
In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.
Here is the problem with Best Player Available. Its based on the GIANTS draft board.. which is not a LIST from 1-100 which is how fans think. Players are assigned grades.. basically what Sy'56 does when he grades a player.You could have SEVERAL players bunched together with the same grade..
In that case if the players have the same grade then need could tip the scale in that direction..
The Giants are going by their board.. not Mel Kipers.. Mike Mayock or anyone elses...
Case and point.. everyone had the Giants taking Zack Martin. The Giants had OBJ graded higher,, meaning he was on a higher tier than Martin...
If it happens again this year and there is a WR who is on a different tier than OL.. the Giants will take a WR again..
I see that being only Cooper and White..
If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.
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(Especially the specter of Dez & OBJ together), but in the long-run it's about the philosophy that guides you.
Which reminds me of Ernie Accorsi. I remember him relating the story of his not taking BPA Walter Payton in the draft for the Colts because they already had Lydell Mitchell (something that haunted Ernie).
Then in '98, for the Giants, he picked the pure BPA (in his mind), Shaun Williams from UCLA over the Need-BPA player available - future multi-year ALL PRO Alan Faneca.
Basically, what I'm saying - You identify your greatest needs, then you ask yourself; Is there a player available at that position, worthy of that pick ?
If the answer is yes, you do it. If not, you focus on you next greatest need and ask yourself the same question again. and so on ....
In summary, I don't think Need and BPA are mutually exclusive.
Here is the problem with Best Player Available. Its based on the GIANTS draft board.. which is not a LIST from 1-100 which is how fans think. Players are assigned grades.. basically what Sy'56 does when he grades a player.You could have SEVERAL players bunched together with the same grade..
In that case if the players have the same grade then need could tip the scale in that direction..
The Giants are going by their board.. not Mel Kipers.. Mike Mayock or anyone elses...
Case and point.. everyone had the Giants taking Zack Martin. The Giants had OBJ graded higher,, meaning he was on a higher tier than Martin...
If it happens again this year and there is a WR who is on a different tier than OL.. the Giants will take a WR again..
I see that being only Cooper and White..
On the money.
If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.
people on this board are underestimating Shelton...I strongly believe that the Giants have Shelton high on their list...Tom Coughlin & Co attended the Senior Bowl and had a chance to see for themselves first hand...based on the reports Shelton was basically unblockable giving almost all OL a tremendous amount of difficulty...Clearly Shelton was one of the most impressive players to attend...and a player most experts were linking to the Giants immediately following the SR Bowl...nothing has changed...the Giants are high on Shelton and are likely to take him assuming one of the top 2 WR doesn't fall..
If we get a starting OG from the #9 spot, it better be a guy that can move to OT down the road.
Greg Cosell views Shelton as a Vince Wilfork/Dontari Poe type of player. He thins he can play 3-4 NT but ideally likes him in a 43 shading over the center and two-gapping. That's where he can really put his quickness as a big man on display. The question becomes, can Hankins play the 3-technique? I don't know enough to say with any certainty, but he has pass rush ability and quickness. I'm inclined to believe he can and if the coaches feel that way Shelton could be the pick.
IMO It's a safe assumption Winston, Mariota, Cooper, White, Fowler, Beasley, Williams, and Gregory, will not be an option for one reason or another. I don't believe any of the OL will be in consideration either. This leaves Ray, Shelton, Parker, and Waynes because you can never count out a CB.
+1
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or Rd 3. I don't buy into this "don't draft a G" theory. If a 10 yr starter type player is there, whether at G or T, you grab him.
+1
+2
Gmen1982 : 8:19 am : link : reply
Doesn't last year contradict what you said? WR wasn't their greatest need and there were OL (Martin) still on the board...
I thought WR was a huge need.....Cruz was coming off an injury.....we weren't going to resign Nicks.....Randle hadn't shown anything......we didn't resign the TE.....so who was Eli going to throw to? Jernigan?
Reese screwed the Pooch on the OL, yes.....but now this sinking ship was leaking fore, aft, port and starboard.....however, if he did take Martin and not OBj, we would be talking a possible top 5 pick this year.......
So here is the debate.....would you rather have OBj and the #9 pick, or Martin and a top 5 pick? Because you wouldn't have won as many games without OBj.....
Gmen1982 : 8:19 am : link : reply
So here is the debate.....would you rather have OBj and the #9 pick, or Martin and a top 5 pick? Because you wouldn't have won as many games without OBj.....
Well, let's be honest. The Giants only won 6 games with OBJ. Would they have won less with Martin? Maybe, maybe not.
I wouldn't second guess the OBJ pick b/c the kid is awesome but we could debate whether the team is as successful with Martin and a better running game.
Regardless, let's face it. With OBJ or Martin this roster is weak. Would this weak roster be better served with one position rather than another? We can debate a WR might be more talented yet would a solid OLman make more of an impact long term? Unless OBJ goes down the Giants cannot draft a #1 receiver b/c they already have one yet can draft a #1 Olinman.
It's a tough debate.
Go find more super players....
You mean like they did by drafting Pugh in the first round two years ago and drafting Richburg in the second round last year and signing Schwartz who was one of the top rated FA guards when he was signed?
The Giants definitely waited too long to start rebuilding the OL.. but they are doing it.. and it doesnt necessarily have to be done in round one..
But I believe that unless Cooper or White is there.. the Giants will go OL in round one.
DT could make more sense on the surface, but given their high historic bust rate and how this regime tends to go bargain hunting on them, a 3-4 NT doesn't add up either.
help Open up the Passing game as well .
Same for the Defense Adding a Top Level Run
stopper will Improve the Defense Immensely rather have
DT OT Or WR at #1 I would hate it if they went CB
Or Safety too early . Unless we got two #1's with
a Cleveland trade Down then I would heve to consider
Collins at Safety .
This regime is staring at a fairly large re-tooling process if they find themselves "outside looking in" again in 2015.
It's a kneejerk reaction to pick an OG there, unless that player is being projected to OT longterm.
I want our team to have an advantage in TOP. I want our defense to be fresh and I want their offense on the bench.
I also want us to have the option of running the ball on 3rd and 2. Far too many years the other team's defense was able to ignore the threat of us running on 3rd and 2 which really hurt us when trying to make first downs.
Finally we all know Coughlin is going to run the ball a lot whether our running game is effective or not, so let's make it effective.
I doubt they'll pick Shelton or any other DT at #9, it would go against their MO.