Was LT the best defensive player in NFL's 95-year history?

but IMHO it's LT....

For my money, he is absolutely the greatest defensive player of all time.

separate he and Reggie.

They're in a dead heat (in my mind) of all time.
I wouldn't debate anyone who put either of them at #1.

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Only other guy who is even in the conversation for me is Reggie White. Oh if only George Young had picked him instead of Gary Zimmerman. We could have seen the absolute best defenses in NFL history.

He would be dominant today. I honestly don't think you could say the same thing about Jim Brown, because Brown wouldn't enjoy the same size/strength advantage in today's game that he enjoyed 50 years ago.

Was the best D lineman probably ever. But LT was the best defensive player ever to put on cleats. Period.

Deacon Jones did for DE's in a 4-3.

He's before my time, but based on accomplishments he's got to be right there with Reggie and LT.

Offense and defense, but its nearly consensus opinion of NFL coaches past and present that he is the best ever to play defense.

In comment 12243771 dorgan said:

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separate he and Reggie. They're in a dead heat (in my mind) of all time. I wouldn't debate anyone who put either of them at #1.

Shaking my head as White should have been a Giants. Can you imagine Taylor and White? The Giants may have beaten that 85 Bears team.

the best Defensive players of all time, LT's name must be in the top 2 or 3 at the very least, if not THE best. I would also have to put Deacon Jones, Reggie White and Dick Butkus in the conversation.

In comment 12243762 I Love Clams Casino said:

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but IMHO it's LT....

They didn't play defense

When you watch highlights of his career he is so fast and strong, looks like he was shot out of a cannons Quick off the ball, throwing oline man, around like they were rag dolls. Other teams had to drastically change their game plans for him. Never had the game seen someone like him. Watching the giants back then was exciting because of him.

He turned into LT. What other player can you think of that was
Unblockable, Was never out of position, was just as fast as anyone on the other team, that never took a play off, that knew the defense
and what every players responsibilities was on every play, that had bad intentions when he hit you?

size, speed and power were/are unparalleled and add to that his will to destroy whatever was in front of him, well, he was the rarest of athletes to ever step foot on to a football field.

As tremendous an athlete as LT was, there have been other athletic freaks in the league that could match his speed and power. What they couldn't match was his nonstop motor, his relentless obsession with destroying everything in his path, or his utter and complete disregard for his own body and health.

the problem is, people don't talk that much about the NFL's Pre-Sabol, pre-TV years before football really became FOOTBALL because the visual evidence is spotty. And there's not many people left who could comment on that era. Wellington Mara was one of them. If he thought LT was the best, he'd seen a lot of players to compare him with.

That said, yeah, LT, Reggie White are the easy choices for the modern era, and I think I'd put LT just a touch ahead of Reggie, but I'm biased. Somehow I think Deacon Jones should be in the conversation. People who watched him said he was sort of "LT before LT." There was a time people thought Butkis was the best LB ever. Some Pittsburgh fans think Ham and Lambert were as good if not better than LT, but that's just hometown bias.

ever by the NFL placing third behind Jerry Rice(great player but an absolute joke at # 1) and Jimmy Brown..

In comment 12243789 giants#1 said:

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In comment 12243762 I Love Clams Casino said: Quote: but IMHO it's LT.... They didn't play defense

ooops!

I just noticed that and wondering why in the responses nobody had mentioned the players I did. It's absolutely LT then....10000%

and Reggie White 3rd, imo

could be described like that

If you listen to/read comments from players, coaches, fans, writers, announcers over a long time there are only 3 athletes who get the very top level of respect: Jim Brown, Jim Thorpe, LT.

he was....
LT Beast Mode. - ( New Window )

Hard to pick between them.

and Jim Brown on offense. They were both so dominant, the game had to be changed in order to deal with them. I can't think of any other players where, to that degree, that was the case.

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Best player, period. Crispino : 8:57 am : link : reply He would be dominant today.

He would probably be serving a suspension today.

In comment 12243860 LS said:

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he was.... LT Beast Mode. - ( New Window )

Oooops!
real link - ( New Window )

Each of the following - game changers in their own right, but none of them made offenses adjust the way LT did. Often, he was a man among boys - faster, stronger than anyone on the field.

Dick Butkus
Deacon Jones
Reggie White
Jack Lambert
Ray Lewis
Deion Sanders
Mean Joe Greene
Ronnie Lott
Ed Reed
Rod Woodson
Mike Singletary
Jack Ham
Ray Nitchke
Allan Page
Warren Sapp

He not only changed the way the OLB was played and viewed, he changed the way the OL was constructed. Gibbs created an offense and a position on offense just to stop LT. I can't think of any player that impacted the game in as many ways that LT did based purely on what he could do on the field.

Reggie White was a great player, but he did not impact the way the game is played the way LT did.

the greatest NFL player of all time, he obviously is the greatest NFL defensive player.

I also agree, Jerry Rice as overall number 1 is a joke.

LT vs Jim Brown is a great debate. Rice might not be top 10.

Drinking way too much big blue kool aide.

behind. After those 3, a drop to Butkus, and after Butkus, another gap to the rest of the field IMO.

Greg in LI put it very well, LT's relentlessness was unique. He also had a terrific sense of anticipation re how a play would develop, virtually a 6 th sense on the field. Never seen another guy with that, not as often as LT had it.

and made many tackles with a grip of jersey that no one else could make.

That was another truly freaky thing about him. He had strength like an animal, not a human...

fan to think anything but.

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dominated the weaker players but when he ran into the really fine tackles he was neutralized.
I remember the OT for the Cowboys comletely dominated him...and actually gave Reggie a beating. Somuchso that they put in a rule change about head slaps. That never happened to LT.

I would put Bob Lilly right there. I think Deon Saunders is much underrated and belongs. Deon didn't take your best receiver away and permit everyone else to be doubled, Deon ran back ints for touchdowns.
And I bet this meets with disagreements but Revis is changing and one of the best defensive players I ever saw.
And along with Lily, I thought Gino Marchetti could do everything and was much better than the one dimensional Deacon Jones.

So LT, Lilly, Deon and Revis would be my top four.

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I don't even think this opinion is tainted by Giants colored glasses. this is a guy who basically changed the way offenses were designed. He was a player who could completely dominate games by himself, which is rare, but rarer for defensive players. He literally won games by himself on defense. He also displayed the same level of dominance with injuries that would have kept other guys off the field.

Reggie White was great and is certainly in the conversation for #2 behind LT. But, in my opinion there is LT and then everyone else.

In comment 12243981 grizz299 said:

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dominated the weaker players but when he ran into the really fine tackles he was neutralized. I remember the OT for the Cowboys comletely dominated him...and actually gave Reggie a beating. Somuchso that they put in a rule change about head slaps.

Offensive linemen were never allowed to head slap.
The rule was changed so that guys like Deacon, Bubba Smith and Reggie would quit beating the shit out of the OL men.
Back then the OL could not use their hands at all.
The days of the chicken wing blocking.

As for JPP versus Peppers, c'mon man.

JPP version 2011 was perhaps comparable to Peppers at his best, but even then Peppers was great for multiple seasons.

Yeah, the JPP/Peppers comp is way off. It's really not even close when you look at full bodies of work.

yes best NFL player ever. Yes I am biased.

I am not sure. But in my lifetime he sure seemed like the best.

He was the first defensive player that I know where the entire offense playing against him always called out where he was and "attempted" to adjust accordingly.

As much as I adored LT, in today's NFL, would he still be the best ever? I am not sure. There are so many mobile QBs now than ever. Would have curtailed a lot of what he used to do against JAWS and Theisman, etc.

IIRC Theisman was pretty damn mobile for a time. Did duty as a R*****ns PR as a young NFL player.

Period.

Nobody else caused the disruption or made the offense pay attention to him as a singular entity on the defense that LT did.

x meadowlander has a nice list of other truly outstanding defenders too. I would add Emlin Tunnell (they didn't call him the offense on defense for nothing), Bob Lilly, and Ted (the mad stork) Hendricks as more truly outstanding defenders.

It's easy to forget just how hard he would hit guys. the acceleration he had when he was on fire was unreal. that video really brought back some memories.

the impact a player has on the game but does his performance change the game? For all his greatness, Wayne Gretzky did not change the game of hockey, for example. But Bobby Orr did and the game has not been the same since.

LT changed the way the game of offensive football was played. His impact was such that offensive football was never the same...as Parcells has said and Joe Gibbs, LT's ability forced teams to move from a halfback blocking a linebacker to something else. The one back offense was created because of LT. That, to me, is the measure of true greatness.

Even Reggie White, as great as he was, did not have that kind of impact on the game. In that sense, LT was revolutionary. He was also a fierce competitor, fast, stayed healthy and essentially turned around a franchise that had been in the abyss for 15 years. Plus, he won two championships and maybe should have won at least one more.

you need to define "best."

Bill James talks about peak value and career value for players. LT was the most dominant defender I've ever seen, probably the best ever. That's peak value.

But he didn't take care of himself and his career wasn't particularly long. Ray Lewis was an elite linebacker for much longer. There are other defensive players who played at an elite level for more seasons, including Ronnie Lott. So you could argue that someone else had greater career value.

I'd take LT over any of them, but there is another side to the argument.

I'd put him at #1 overall period too (arguable).

the head slap was taken away from the defense first, I think it was Allen in a game against Reggie that caused it to be taken away from the offense, many years later.

It's the kind of thing I might remember incorrectly, but I haven't been able to confirm or deny on the internet.