I have a hard time picking a favorite between O'Neill, Bernie, and Mo. I think it falls in that order, but I loved them all above everyone else. Pettitte used to rank right there, as well, but his admitted use knocked him down in my eyes, especially because I don't buy that he was only taking to rehab.
As time went on, I admired Posada more and more. As a player he is one of the finest offensive players at the C position all time (top 10). But, as a person, enough can't be said.
A lot didn't come to light until late in his career or after his career, but he played many years under the stress of family concerns. His son has a condition that required multiple cranial surgeries, many of which were during the season. He still played just about every day and quietly performed. For years, only Jeter and Torre knew.
My son was misdiagnosed with the same condition at 2.5 years old. The stress and fear for the 2 weeks until our appointment with a pediatric neurosurgeon confirmed them misdiagnosis were indescribable. I can't even begin to imagine how that is magnified when, on top of that your son actually has the condition and on top of that you are asked to perform at a high level in front of thousands of people daily. He is incredible.
His peak was relatively short, though, and his decline was sudden and severe. Plus, he frequently missed 20 or 30 games a season with nagging injuries, which decreased his counting stats.
"Core Four" Bernie was established before any of them ever saw the Stadium full time. And if it wasn't for his surviving the early '90s assholes like Mel Hall being in the clubhouse and then flourishing fianlly under Buck Showalter, we may not have seen the rest of them come to fruition because King Brainless I may have forced traded them away. Bernie paved the way. And had he not missed significant time almost every year he may have been the best of them all. And he was MONEY in the clutch.
Was the actual heart and soul of those Yankee teams. He was by far our best player. In my view he is a hof and deserves the recognition. 4 or 5 strait gold gloves. Centerfield for the Yankees for 15 years. All those postseason records. Came close to winning MVP a few times. I believe he got robbed in one his campaigns. Steroid era as well
and his out of this world clutch hitting continued into this AB in the ALCS. He and Jeter just seemed to turn it up to another level in the playoffs. Great players during the year but legends of the post-season. Watch any big rally or pivotal defensive sequence during those dynasty years and you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful that doesn't include one of them. Link - ( New Window )
Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio, Cobb, Speaker, Griffey, Snider, Simmons, Edmonds, Jones. Robin Yount, even though he only played half of his career in center. I'd put Bernie in the next tier of guys like Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson, Beltran, Larry Doby, Reggie Smith.
his most similar comparison is probably David Ortiz. Guys whose regular season longevity fell short of HOF caliber, but who had HOF-caliber peaks and have sterling post-season resumes.
The annoying part of that comparison is the fact that Ortiz is going to get way more votes than Bernie, despite the PEDs issue.
Bernie, Jeter, and Posada were all pretty damn awful defensive players according to the the advanced metrics. CF-SS-C, that's supposed to be the backbone of your fielding. Instead, that group was the backbone of a dynasty.
from around 95-2003 bernie posted ops over 900 every year.
That's one hell of a run. Add in the postseason consistency...damn good career. You could count the postseason as one more good season in his career and obviously the clutch factor gets factored in. Bernie hit good pitching as well as anyone of his era. Add it all up and it's a great career. Bernie makes the Hall of very good...but some guys in Cooperstown aren't as good.
talking about Bernie's lack of power. Who the hell cares? The guy was a 100 rbi guy and his OBP was near 400. 300 hitter and held the fort in center. That's a great player.
Power is important but HR power is kind of overrated. Give me the guy that hits doubles and gets on base over the HR hitter that strikes out a ton and doesn't take pitches.
Bernie was the catalyst for the best team in baseball for close to a decade. That has to count for something.
Bernie was a 25-30 homer guy who hit a ton of doubles
favorite Yankee after Mattingly retired and remained so until he stopped playing. Only thing he didn't have was a great arm. Everything else he did was good to great.
was tracking toward the 10 CFs of all time. Great power and a fantastic glove, but his production post age 32 is pretty spotty, but for a couple of years in St. Louis.
I think Bernie's prime stacks up with a handful of HoF
center fielders... but I also think he needed an additional 3-to-4 years of that kind've production in order to receive serious consideration. He reached his potential a tad too late and tapered off a tad too soon to compile enough gaudy statistics to make it, IMO.
This when his contract finally runs out(or have I got the wrong guy?)
A lot didn't come to light until late in his career or after his career, but he played many years under the stress of family concerns. His son has a condition that required multiple cranial surgeries, many of which were during the season. He still played just about every day and quietly performed. For years, only Jeter and Torre knew.
My son was misdiagnosed with the same condition at 2.5 years old. The stress and fear for the 2 weeks until our appointment with a pediatric neurosurgeon confirmed them misdiagnosis were indescribable. I can't even begin to imagine how that is magnified when, on top of that your son actually has the condition and on top of that you are asked to perform at a high level in front of thousands of people daily. He is incredible.
Yep, I'd put him ahead of Puckett.
Definitely.
Bernie is probably one of the 15 best CFers of all time. Maybe even top ten. That's saying something.
love this - ( New Window )
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Quote:
in the HoF.
Definitely.
Bernie is probably one of the 15 best CFers of all time. Maybe even top ten. That's saying something.
In no world is Bernie Williams an all time top 10 CF.
The annoying part of that comparison is the fact that Ortiz is going to get way more votes than Bernie, despite the PEDs issue.
Bernie, Jeter, and Posada were all pretty damn awful defensive players according to the the advanced metrics. CF-SS-C, that's supposed to be the backbone of your fielding. Instead, that group was the backbone of a dynasty.
That's one hell of a run. Add in the postseason consistency...damn good career. You could count the postseason as one more good season in his career and obviously the clutch factor gets factored in. Bernie hit good pitching as well as anyone of his era. Add it all up and it's a great career. Bernie makes the Hall of very good...but some guys in Cooperstown aren't as good.
Power is important but HR power is kind of overrated. Give me the guy that hits doubles and gets on base over the HR hitter that strikes out a ton and doesn't take pitches.
Bernie was the catalyst for the best team in baseball for close to a decade. That has to count for something.
That's crazy, Bernie had great pop for a CFer.
The postseason numbers go a long way with me but it's still not enough. He needed another monster season or two...or three.
+1