I know it's not PC to say it, but Death Metal has been a feeder culture for Radical Islam for many, many years. I know the metalhead special interest groups won't let politicians get away with saying it, but it's a fact.
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
Gadahn was born Adam Yahiye Gadahn in 1978, in Oregon, United States.[7] Gadahn's Jewish paternal grandfather, Carl Pearlman, was a prominent urologist; and on the Board of Directors of the Anti-Defamation League. According to Gadahn, his grandfather was a "zealous supporter" of Israel.[8][9] Gadahn's paternal grandmother, Agnes Branch, a Christian, was an editor for The Christian Family Chronicles (a genealogical publication for people with the surname "Christian").[10] Gadahn's father is Philip Pearlman, a musician who grew up in Orange County, California. Philip Pearlman and his wife Jennifer legally changed their last name from Pearlman to Gadahn in the mid-1970s, after the Biblical warrior Gideon.[3] Philip Gadahn was involved in the counterculture movement at the University of California at Irvine, and before Adam's birth became a Christian. Gadahn described his father as having been "raised agnostic or atheist, but he became a believer in One God when he picked up a Bible left on the beach."[3] His father's religious perspective was flexible and based upon his own spiritual needs and as a new convert to Islam, Gadahn portrayed his father in a manner sympathetic to his religion of conversion.[3]
While living with his grandparents in West Floral Park, Santa Ana, Gadahn described himself as having a "yawning emptiness", and he sought ways "to fill that void". He explored Christianity on the Internet, radio, and locally, but later said that he found evangelical Christianity's "apocalyptic ramblings" to be "paranoid" and hollow.[11] In 1995, at age 17, Gadahn began studying Islam at the Islamic Society of Orange County. Members of Gadahn's study group were young fundamentalists who "targeted the mosque's chairman,Haitham Bundakji", whom they referred to as Danny the Jew for his practice of "wearing Western clothes and being overly friendly with Jews"
I know it's not PC to say it, but Death Metal has been a feeder culture for Radical Islam for many, many years. I know the metalhead special interest groups won't let politicians get away with saying it, but it's a fact.
Yeah, when you play it backwards it actually says mullah-allah-allah-mullah
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
You seem unable to distinguish fact from truism.
You seem to refuse to acknowledge the US role in the Middle East. I respect seriously that you were a soldier and thank you for it. I am also glad you are here to debate me. I also know you are smart which makes it sadder. The causes of terrorism are no mystery at all.
According to the pentagon terrorism is caused by our support “of the corrupt monarchies of the region.” People in the region see as the “longstanding ally and prop and supporter of corrupt regimes” such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan Kuwait, Egypt, Bahrain, etc. Contrary to the popular opinion the pentagon dismisses so-called hatred of our freedom theory and instead states that Muslims “do not Americans but hate our government polices.”(Defense Science Task Force, 2003).
Jason Burke, one of the most respected terrorist analysts in the world warned the US against invading Iraq stating “every use of force is a victory for Bin Laden.” Prophetic words considering in 2001 the main terrorists were a a small group of dirt bags living in a cave and now it has spread the region wide.
Why does the US support such regimes? Well according to Eisenhower, “There is a perception in the region that the US supports harsh and brutal governments that block democracy and development because of our interest in near east oil. Furthermore, its difficult to counter that perception because its correct.” As a result there is “a campaign of hatred against the US in the middle east, not by governments but by the people.”
In recent years these strains have been exacerbated by the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, and drone strikes. In fact the CIA largely dismisses US support of Israel as a serious factor in causing Islamic terrorism against the United States. They too emphasize the support of horridly monstrous regimes as a radicalizing agent.
Note, this is mostly referring to what they call the “reservoir of support” for terrorists. Namely, young and angry men deprived of freedom. This does not refer to Osama bin laden or the like as freedom fighters. But, rather talented propagandists who use real world suffering of the region, imposed by the United States, to garner support for their cause.
Former CIA contracted analyst Graham Fuller discussed this at length recently in an article for foreign policy. There, he discussed how ISIS was a direct result of the invasion of Iraq/combined with financing by Saudi clerics who spread Salafist ideology. Thus, Saudi Law and ISIS law are virtually the same. Check it and see.
The Saudi government finally put a stop to it after ISIS got dangerous and the US pressured them to do so. But make no mistake about it. The Saudis view themselves as a missionary state and spread the most extreme form of Islam in the world around the region. Yes, our allies. Luckily, overwhelmingly, the people of the region despise ISIS and the ideology behind them.
But we can push more to their ranks by indiscrimately bombing people we suspect of crimes and brushing aside the innocent people who are killed in the process.
Some other things of note:
The CIA put the Bath Party in power.
The CIA supported Sadaam as he gassed Kurds and used chemical weapons against Iran. The helicopters he gassed the Kurds with were US made and the chemical compounds from dow chemical.
The US allowed Sadaam to tour US nuclear facilities. They gave him a vile of the bubonic plague. Literally. When the US accidentally shot down an Iranian civilian airliner it was stationed near Iran to aid Sadaam in his attack against Iran.
How did Iran react? Well, they acted like a civilized state and went to the UN. They did not set off bombs in Washington. Each and every resolution was vetoed and blocked by the UN. Hussein would give the US officials press releases on how he wanted them to read out the veto to the press. They would do so word for word. As many as half a million Iranians died in the US supported war.
However, the US supported Hussein up to the day he invaded Kuwait. Bob dole was there on senate delegations in 1990 opening up farm deals and forgiving Iraqi debts. Weapons continued. The US government and press referred to Hussein as “A moderate” who was ”improving.” The US secretary of state at the time informed Hussein to not worry about allegations he committed human rights abuses against the kurds, “Those are just cry babies in spoiled brat American press,” he said.
Ironically the Kurds are now fighting against ISIS.
Back to Iran, in 1953 they did have a democracy. Its Prime Minister Mossadeg signed legislation voted by their parliament to nationalize Iranian oil. Iran had this crazy notion that they should profit off their oil. Well, the US-Britain organized a coup that threw out the prime minister and replaced him with the Shah. Some estimates say that the Shah killed 100,000 citizens in political torture and stole billions.
So
1953-US overthrows democracy in Iran
1953-1979- funnels billions in military weapons to show who murders his own population.
1980-1988 US supports Hussein while he gasses Iranians and kills half a million people.
• Also includes Kurdish massacre by Hussein with American weapons.
1991-2002- Sanctions against Iraq kill half a million Iraqi children. 4 UN inspectors of the program resign in protest against the west’s actions.
2003- US invades of false charges. Kills perhaps a million Iraqis.
I could go on and on. But yeah, those uncivilized bastards. Drone them. Nuke them. Kill them.
Cause none of the above could possibly cause any of them to hate us?
Dunedin you claimed a week ago we support brutal dictatorships cause of the price of oil. As if somehow the price of oil is more important then humans. Meanwhile the polcies I have outlined go back 7 decades well before the Middle East had such power. Huge reports this week in the NYT and WSJ both pointed out what I did. The US oil production is so large now that we actually control the market and opec is on the verge of worthless. According to government officials its been like that for almost a decade.
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
so you're clearly cutting and pasting your bullshit. Isn't there an undergrad sociology department you can haunt? That's about the quality of your contributions.
You can say I plagiarized it all you want. But I added the Dunedin in part at the top and end because right before I posted I saw your comment.
You accusing this of not being mine is a major victory in my eyes. Cause I know it is.
There is nothing undergraduate about what I wrote.
I cited the CIA, Pentagon, major analysts, the national security archive, Eisenhower, the NSA, etc.
If you are calling me undergraduate then you are calling them undergraduate.
I have typed about these topics ad-nauseam on here and I have yet to receive anything other then:
“troll” “poor spelling” “undergraduate” “dupe”
It maddens me that an intelligent person like you or even headhunter, kicker,etc, refuse to acknowledge what we have done there.
Until any of you can discuss what I wrote seriously its just pointless.
America's shortcomings is your refusal to actually listen to other posters perspectives, your persistence is misconstruing their viewpoints, and yea, I'll keep saying it until you write coherently, your grammar is maddening.
Btw, the notion that posters here don't acknowledge the bad things America has or is doing, is fantasy.
Before your time here, myself, duned, kicker, bill, and many others have all discussed America's shortcomings with no shying away from the truth. But you wouldn't know that because you rarely read what anyone writes anyway.
I've tried not to engage in intellectual discussion with you because your act is so transparent and it's a waste of time.
And I've thus tried to completely ignore you but your insistence to appear on any of these threads and derail discussions thanks to your agenda, makes me appear to point out how shitty of a troll you are.
Well, at least you're not a 9/11 truther I guess. You're not, right?
maybe, just maybe... if people keep calling you a duck on a regular basis, you might wanna look in the mirror and see if you have a beak and webbed feet growing.
didn't really have me believing they were leaders.
perhaps a strike and a publicity to warn American youth that while it sounds romantic to travel the world taking up the cause, you can also end up dead.
This on the heels of the very public outing of the soldier who deserted his post to join the terrorists and ended up a prisoner of them for several years.
Not shortcomings, crimes. That’s a key difference.
Supporting Sadaam while he gassed kurds and Iranians and preventing the UN from acting is not a shortcoming. It’s a crime. There is a huge difference. SO are many of the others listed. Like overthrowing a sovereign government cause they nationalize their oil and putting in a dicator who kills ten thousand people.
That’s like saying Hitler shouldn’t have invaded Russia because it was an error. No it was also a crime.
As for listening, well I obviously read every post as to that’s what I am replying too. The numerous and varied sources I cited off the top of my head, including the US GOVERNMENT, clearly indicates I listen to plenty of sources.
The grammar is annoying but I work and rush to type these in. But hey if that’s the worse you guys can say Im going home pretty happy with what I wrote, albeit sad in its accuracy.
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
Something tells me we are going to be reading about you in one of these drone strikes some day. That will be the best Sunday reading of my life.
America has committed many, many crimes in the name of spreading democracy when in fact the reason for the crimes is to ensure stability in a region where the non-interrupted flow of oil is vital to keeping average joes all over the world fed, warm, clothed, etc... and getting any other essentials to average joe.
We get our hands dirty and bloody, no doubt. I have no problem admitting it.
You seem to attribute our bloodied hands to intentional malice.
I attribute them to making the tough decisions that no one else wants to make.
Now go ahead and misconstrue what I wrote...
OK, what fucking moron left the gate open at Paulie-World? Â
is killing that maniacal, bloodthirsty, hateful, old bastard Ayatollah Khomeini - the devil incarnate. He should have been terminated in France and never been allowed to get anywhere near Iran. That piece of excrement has been the cause of more deaths than the Shah ever did.
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
Something tells me we are going to be reading about you in one of these drone strikes some day. That will be the best Sunday reading of my life.
You just wished death upon me because I have a viewpoint that involves stopping certain behavior to lessen the likelihood of terrorism occurring. A viewpoint that has plenty of support among intelligence agencies, scholars, etc.
For this you want me to die?
Anyobdy who reads these words on this thread should immediately acknowledge that your comment is both anti-American and horrid.
America has committed many, many crimes in the name of spreading democracy when in fact the reason for the crimes is to ensure stability in a region where the non-interrupted flow of oil is vital to keeping average joes all over the world fed, warm, clothed, etc... and getting any other essentials to average joe.
We get our hands dirty and bloody, no doubt. I have no problem admitting it.
You seem to attribute our bloodied hands to intentional malice.
I attribute them to making the tough decisions that no one else wants to make.
Now go ahead and misconstrue what I wrote...
No, I respect you for discussing this with me.
I find your the view expressed here reasonable.
I do disagree with it. I dont see how supporting Hussein as a way of spreading democracy. Nor do I see how supporting dozens and dozens of dictators around the planet as doing so.
Certainly, overthrowing Iranian democracy in 1953 was not supporting democracy.
Keep this in mind....all powers always justify their behavior in the name of a greater good. Hitler did it. Stalin did it. The English did it when they were imperializing the world. Scumbag terrorists do it when they fly into building and kill innocent people.
I think in the cases I cited the US was acting in its perceived economic self-interest and our leaders felt that trumped the lives of innocent people.
I think your argument works in situations like Dresden, Hiroshima.
But there is no justification in blocking the UN from intervening in the US of chemical weapons by Sadamm, for example, against Kurds.
I've tried not to engage in intellectual discussion with you because your act is so transparent and it's a waste of time.
And I've thus tried to completely ignore you but your insistence to appear on any of these threads and derail discussions thanks to your agenda, makes me appear to point out how shitty of a troll you are.
Well, at least you're not a 9/11 truther I guess. You're not, right?
My predilection to suck donkey dick is not on trial here and is irreleveant.
As for the 9/11 truthers, I think I made it clear that their are terrorists who attack the United States in my writings.
9/11 happened and was carried out by dickwag Islamists who killed innocent people miles from my home.
I write what I write because to the best of my knowledge the best way to prevent another 9/11 is in part stopping the actions that lead to it.
on a football site, and it seems to be your only contribution to said football site. That's bizarre and a little sad. If you were a regular poster for awhile and you "knew" these guys and you did this while contributing to sports-themed threads maybe, but this is pretty much all you do.
on a football site, and it seems to be your only contribution to said football site. That's bizarre and a little sad. If you were a regular poster for awhile and you "knew" these guys and you did this while contributing to sports-themed threads maybe, but this is pretty much all you do.
Bold faced lie. I have not copied one thing from anywhere other then sources I cited.
I cant both be horrible at grammar and spelling while simultaneously cutting and pasting.
The US gov, CIA, etc,NYT, WSJ are not indymedia.(Of which all were referenced)
I also commented on at least three football threads today as well as a thread where a soldier was spit on in which I referred to the spitter as a scumbag.
Even if your allegation were true, which it as just demonstrated was not, it still wouldn't detract from its accuracy.
That being said, I take your point that I am farely knew and come on opinionated. But its easy to be that way when all I get is dupe, etc.
Someone on this thread just wished that I would die in a drone strike.
I will make an effort to me more respectful in the future.
the issue is that you are obtuse and dogmatic, accepting no nuance, no range of reasonable opinions. It is either "your" (or that of whomever you're stealing material from) way or nothing. The fact that "your" way blames America first and foremost for everything makes you anathema to most of us, even those who ascribe a fair amount of wrongdoing to our past and present, because most of us actually like this country and don't consider running it down to be a life's work. There are dozens of very intelligent posters here who contribute from a wide range of perspectives, but you show no interest in learning from any of them, in exploring where your opinions or your understandings of history converge or diverse, it is simply "your" take on things and fuck everyone else.
the issue is that you are obtuse and dogmatic, accepting no nuance, no range of reasonable opinions. It is either "your" (or that of whomever you're stealing material from) way or nothing. The fact that "your" way blames America first and foremost for everything makes you anathema to most of us, even those who ascribe a fair amount of wrongdoing to our past and present, because most of us actually like this country and don't consider running it down to be a life's work. There are dozens of very intelligent posters here who contribute from a wide range of perspectives, but you show no interest in learning from any of them, in exploring where your opinions or your understandings of history converge or diverse, it is simply "your" take on things and fuck everyone else.
I respectfully disagree. Any comment I have made has been a substantive response. In contrast, nobody here has made a comment on me other then wishing me death, dupes, etc.
Now you are calling me a plagiarizer, again without substance.
A little above I named 4 people by name, including you, who I referred to as smart. Literally.
As for the America first thing. I am an American. I believe it is elementary morality to focus on my own countries crimes before pointing fingers at others.
We understand this perfectly well when we talk about enemy states. So for example, when the Ayatollah calls us devils we rightly laugh and mock him. It would be like the Soviets in the 1980s criticizing Vietnam. What would we say? We would rightly point out that they are invading Afghanistan.
It is a basic principle of morality that one should focus on his own crimes before pointing out the crimes of others. Children know this.
I am not making up studies that are citing our behavior as prime causes of terrorism. These things are happening and scholarship is virtually universal in outlining them.
Iranian dissidents should focus on criticizing Irans regime. We should focus on ours. Its healthy to take an adversarial role with ones government.
To be clear, I do not for a second think we are responsible for every ill in the world. But we are responsible for a lot of it. I would feel like a hypocrite to talk about China's human rights abuses. Which by the way, is exactly what China does towards us. They tell their population all the bad things we do. Their hypocrites.
But we are responsible for the actions I mentioned and when discussing terrorism they are relevant here.
By the way, the government is very different then we as Americans. Governments are power centers. Thats what they are. Ours is no different. Its not an indictment of Americans, its an indictment of governments. To me that is the premise this country was founded on. In my view there is no patriotism in supporting ones government at the expense of its citizens.
There seem to me plenty of people here who support US atrocities no matter how awful they are. What makes the actions good is that we did it. Stories about how if use violence it must be for the general good because we are America. Yeah, thats the job for propagandists for power and violence and its the task of populations to free themselves from those types of doctrinal controls and constraints.
I love my country. But love isn't being blind in my view. Its honestly assessing whats going on and finding ways to fix it.
several other posters here disagree with you, as evidenced by their desire to talk to him. IMO, they fully share the blame for destroying any rational thread.
One gentle helpful hint that may make you be and sound credible...I have seen you post several times about Mossedegh. You need to do a lot more digging to understand Iranian history and that period. Sorry. You weaken many points when you quote but do not know.
Sophomores do that when it is revealed that the sanitized history and civic perspective they first learned is not the whole and complete story.
That's true of the second and third and fourth generation and decade of perspective one gains. Enjoy the journey and stay open to peeling the onion.
I know it's not PC to say it, but Death Metal has been a feeder culture for Radical Islam for many, many years. I know the metalhead special interest groups won't let politicians get away with saying it, but it's a fact.
Little known fact - ISIS rides into battle blasting Reign In Blood. True story.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
While living with his grandparents in West Floral Park, Santa Ana, Gadahn described himself as having a "yawning emptiness", and he sought ways "to fill that void". He explored Christianity on the Internet, radio, and locally, but later said that he found evangelical Christianity's "apocalyptic ramblings" to be "paranoid" and hollow.[11] In 1995, at age 17, Gadahn began studying Islam at the Islamic Society of Orange County. Members of Gadahn's study group were young fundamentalists who "targeted the mosque's chairman,Haitham Bundakji", whom they referred to as Danny the Jew for his practice of "wearing Western clothes and being overly friendly with Jews"
Quote:
Why is that relevant to the story?
I know it's not PC to say it, but Death Metal has been a feeder culture for Radical Islam for many, many years. I know the metalhead special interest groups won't let politicians get away with saying it, but it's a fact.
Yeah, when you play it backwards it actually says mullah-allah-allah-mullah
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
You seem unable to distinguish fact from truism.
Quote:
Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
You seem unable to distinguish fact from truism.
You seem to refuse to acknowledge the US role in the Middle East. I respect seriously that you were a soldier and thank you for it. I am also glad you are here to debate me. I also know you are smart which makes it sadder. The causes of terrorism are no mystery at all.
According to the pentagon terrorism is caused by our support “of the corrupt monarchies of the region.” People in the region see as the “longstanding ally and prop and supporter of corrupt regimes” such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan Kuwait, Egypt, Bahrain, etc. Contrary to the popular opinion the pentagon dismisses so-called hatred of our freedom theory and instead states that Muslims “do not Americans but hate our government polices.”(Defense Science Task Force, 2003).
Jason Burke, one of the most respected terrorist analysts in the world warned the US against invading Iraq stating “every use of force is a victory for Bin Laden.” Prophetic words considering in 2001 the main terrorists were a a small group of dirt bags living in a cave and now it has spread the region wide.
Why does the US support such regimes? Well according to Eisenhower, “There is a perception in the region that the US supports harsh and brutal governments that block democracy and development because of our interest in near east oil. Furthermore, its difficult to counter that perception because its correct.” As a result there is “a campaign of hatred against the US in the middle east, not by governments but by the people.”
In recent years these strains have been exacerbated by the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, and drone strikes. In fact the CIA largely dismisses US support of Israel as a serious factor in causing Islamic terrorism against the United States. They too emphasize the support of horridly monstrous regimes as a radicalizing agent.
Note, this is mostly referring to what they call the “reservoir of support” for terrorists. Namely, young and angry men deprived of freedom. This does not refer to Osama bin laden or the like as freedom fighters. But, rather talented propagandists who use real world suffering of the region, imposed by the United States, to garner support for their cause.
Former CIA contracted analyst Graham Fuller discussed this at length recently in an article for foreign policy. There, he discussed how ISIS was a direct result of the invasion of Iraq/combined with financing by Saudi clerics who spread Salafist ideology. Thus, Saudi Law and ISIS law are virtually the same. Check it and see.
The Saudi government finally put a stop to it after ISIS got dangerous and the US pressured them to do so. But make no mistake about it. The Saudis view themselves as a missionary state and spread the most extreme form of Islam in the world around the region. Yes, our allies. Luckily, overwhelmingly, the people of the region despise ISIS and the ideology behind them.
But we can push more to their ranks by indiscrimately bombing people we suspect of crimes and brushing aside the innocent people who are killed in the process.
Some other things of note:
The CIA put the Bath Party in power.
The CIA supported Sadaam as he gassed Kurds and used chemical weapons against Iran. The helicopters he gassed the Kurds with were US made and the chemical compounds from dow chemical.
The US allowed Sadaam to tour US nuclear facilities. They gave him a vile of the bubonic plague. Literally. When the US accidentally shot down an Iranian civilian airliner it was stationed near Iran to aid Sadaam in his attack against Iran.
How did Iran react? Well, they acted like a civilized state and went to the UN. They did not set off bombs in Washington. Each and every resolution was vetoed and blocked by the UN. Hussein would give the US officials press releases on how he wanted them to read out the veto to the press. They would do so word for word. As many as half a million Iranians died in the US supported war.
However, the US supported Hussein up to the day he invaded Kuwait. Bob dole was there on senate delegations in 1990 opening up farm deals and forgiving Iraqi debts. Weapons continued. The US government and press referred to Hussein as “A moderate” who was ”improving.” The US secretary of state at the time informed Hussein to not worry about allegations he committed human rights abuses against the kurds, “Those are just cry babies in spoiled brat American press,” he said.
Ironically the Kurds are now fighting against ISIS.
Back to Iran, in 1953 they did have a democracy. Its Prime Minister Mossadeg signed legislation voted by their parliament to nationalize Iranian oil. Iran had this crazy notion that they should profit off their oil. Well, the US-Britain organized a coup that threw out the prime minister and replaced him with the Shah. Some estimates say that the Shah killed 100,000 citizens in political torture and stole billions.
So
1953-US overthrows democracy in Iran
1953-1979- funnels billions in military weapons to show who murders his own population.
1980-1988 US supports Hussein while he gasses Iranians and kills half a million people.
• Also includes Kurdish massacre by Hussein with American weapons.
1991-2002- Sanctions against Iraq kill half a million Iraqi children. 4 UN inspectors of the program resign in protest against the west’s actions.
2003- US invades of false charges. Kills perhaps a million Iraqis.
I could go on and on. But yeah, those uncivilized bastards. Drone them. Nuke them. Kill them.
Cause none of the above could possibly cause any of them to hate us?
Dunedin you claimed a week ago we support brutal dictatorships cause of the price of oil. As if somehow the price of oil is more important then humans. Meanwhile the polcies I have outlined go back 7 decades well before the Middle East had such power. Huge reports this week in the NYT and WSJ both pointed out what I did. The US oil production is so large now that we actually control the market and opec is on the verge of worthless. According to government officials its been like that for almost a decade.
With all due respect.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
Is that how you were radicalized?
You accusing this of not being mine is a major victory in my eyes. Cause I know it is.
There is nothing undergraduate about what I wrote.
I cited the CIA, Pentagon, major analysts, the national security archive, Eisenhower, the NSA, etc.
If you are calling me undergraduate then you are calling them undergraduate.
I have typed about these topics ad-nauseam on here and I have yet to receive anything other then:
“troll” “poor spelling” “undergraduate” “dupe”
It maddens me that an intelligent person like you or even headhunter, kicker,etc, refuse to acknowledge what we have done there.
Until any of you can discuss what I wrote seriously its just pointless.
“where did this clown come from?”
These aren’t exactly substantive rebuttals to what I wrote.
Please find where I respond to someone’s point by saying “you suck donkey dick?”
Btw, the notion that posters here don't acknowledge the bad things America has or is doing, is fantasy.
Before your time here, myself, duned, kicker, bill, and many others have all discussed America's shortcomings with no shying away from the truth. But you wouldn't know that because you rarely read what anyone writes anyway.
Go away.
And I've thus tried to completely ignore you but your insistence to appear on any of these threads and derail discussions thanks to your agenda, makes me appear to point out how shitty of a troll you are.
Well, at least you're not a 9/11 truther I guess. You're not, right?
perhaps a strike and a publicity to warn American youth that while it sounds romantic to travel the world taking up the cause, you can also end up dead.
This on the heels of the very public outing of the soldier who deserted his post to join the terrorists and ended up a prisoner of them for several years.
Supporting Sadaam while he gassed kurds and Iranians and preventing the UN from acting is not a shortcoming. It’s a crime. There is a huge difference. SO are many of the others listed. Like overthrowing a sovereign government cause they nationalize their oil and putting in a dicator who kills ten thousand people.
That’s like saying Hitler shouldn’t have invaded Russia because it was an error. No it was also a crime.
As for listening, well I obviously read every post as to that’s what I am replying too. The numerous and varied sources I cited off the top of my head, including the US GOVERNMENT, clearly indicates I listen to plenty of sources.
The grammar is annoying but I work and rush to type these in. But hey if that’s the worse you guys can say Im going home pretty happy with what I wrote, albeit sad in its accuracy.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
Something tells me we are going to be reading about you in one of these drone strikes some day. That will be the best Sunday reading of my life.
Is this truth enough for you?
America has committed many, many crimes in the name of spreading democracy when in fact the reason for the crimes is to ensure stability in a region where the non-interrupted flow of oil is vital to keeping average joes all over the world fed, warm, clothed, etc... and getting any other essentials to average joe.
We get our hands dirty and bloody, no doubt. I have no problem admitting it.
You seem to attribute our bloodied hands to intentional malice.
I attribute them to making the tough decisions that no one else wants to make.
Now go ahead and misconstrue what I wrote...
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Cause the government calls them al qaeda leaders you guys take it as the bible.
Proving fact: drone strikes cause 20 terrorists for every one killed. Cause when you kill a kid playing soccer by accident it causes anger. Thats not my view its the cia and goverments.
Lets apply the golden rule. If any country who s7spects someone might be guilty of a crime can indisriminately bomb yhem what jind of chaos woukd ensue.
Should england randomly have bombed boston to target ira funding and members where many where?
If your answer is no your against drone strikes.
Something tells me we are going to be reading about you in one of these drone strikes some day. That will be the best Sunday reading of my life.
You just wished death upon me because I have a viewpoint that involves stopping certain behavior to lessen the likelihood of terrorism occurring. A viewpoint that has plenty of support among intelligence agencies, scholars, etc.
For this you want me to die?
Anyobdy who reads these words on this thread should immediately acknowledge that your comment is both anti-American and horrid.
“where did this clown come from?”
These aren’t exactly substantive rebuttals to what I wrote.
Please find where I respond to someone’s point by saying “you suck donkey dick?”
I don't provide a substantive rebuttal because I don't care what you write. I don't understand why you are here. And you are an awful poster.
Is this truth enough for you?
America has committed many, many crimes in the name of spreading democracy when in fact the reason for the crimes is to ensure stability in a region where the non-interrupted flow of oil is vital to keeping average joes all over the world fed, warm, clothed, etc... and getting any other essentials to average joe.
We get our hands dirty and bloody, no doubt. I have no problem admitting it.
You seem to attribute our bloodied hands to intentional malice.
I attribute them to making the tough decisions that no one else wants to make.
Now go ahead and misconstrue what I wrote...
No, I respect you for discussing this with me.
I find your the view expressed here reasonable.
I do disagree with it. I dont see how supporting Hussein as a way of spreading democracy. Nor do I see how supporting dozens and dozens of dictators around the planet as doing so.
Certainly, overthrowing Iranian democracy in 1953 was not supporting democracy.
Keep this in mind....all powers always justify their behavior in the name of a greater good. Hitler did it. Stalin did it. The English did it when they were imperializing the world. Scumbag terrorists do it when they fly into building and kill innocent people.
I think in the cases I cited the US was acting in its perceived economic self-interest and our leaders felt that trumped the lives of innocent people.
I think your argument works in situations like Dresden, Hiroshima.
But there is no justification in blocking the UN from intervening in the US of chemical weapons by Sadamm, for example, against Kurds.
And I've thus tried to completely ignore you but your insistence to appear on any of these threads and derail discussions thanks to your agenda, makes me appear to point out how shitty of a troll you are.
Well, at least you're not a 9/11 truther I guess. You're not, right?
As for the 9/11 truthers, I think I made it clear that their are terrorists who attack the United States in my writings.
9/11 happened and was carried out by dickwag Islamists who killed innocent people miles from my home.
I write what I write because to the best of my knowledge the best way to prevent another 9/11 is in part stopping the actions that lead to it.
You can never justify and attack like 9/11. Ever.
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See two above comments….”I suck donkey dick”
“where did this clown come from?”
These aren’t exactly substantive rebuttals to what I wrote.
Please find where I respond to someone’s point by saying “you suck donkey dick?”
I don't provide a substantive rebuttal because I don't care what you write. I don't understand why you are here. And you are an awful poster.
That is your right.
But neverthless, it is factually not a rebuttal. Perhaps you can or perhaps you cant. Makes as little difference to me as it does to you.
Bold faced lie. I have not copied one thing from anywhere other then sources I cited.
I cant both be horrible at grammar and spelling while simultaneously cutting and pasting.
The US gov, CIA, etc,NYT, WSJ are not indymedia.(Of which all were referenced)
I also commented on at least three football threads today as well as a thread where a soldier was spit on in which I referred to the spitter as a scumbag.
Even if your allegation were true, which it as just demonstrated was not, it still wouldn't detract from its accuracy.
That being said, I take your point that I am farely knew and come on opinionated. But its easy to be that way when all I get is dupe, etc.
Someone on this thread just wished that I would die in a drone strike.
I will make an effort to me more respectful in the future.
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In comment 12247835 brownstone said:
Quote:
See two above comments….”I suck donkey dick”
“where did this clown come from?”
These aren’t exactly substantive rebuttals to what I wrote.
Please find where I respond to someone’s point by saying “you suck donkey dick?”
I don't provide a substantive rebuttal because I don't care what you write. I don't understand why you are here. And you are an awful poster.
That is your right.
But neverthless, it is factually not a rebuttal. Perhaps you can or perhaps you cant. Makes as little difference to me as it does to you.
It was never supposed to be a rebuttal, you fucking idiot.
I respectfully disagree. Any comment I have made has been a substantive response. In contrast, nobody here has made a comment on me other then wishing me death, dupes, etc.
Now you are calling me a plagiarizer, again without substance.
A little above I named 4 people by name, including you, who I referred to as smart. Literally.
As for the America first thing. I am an American. I believe it is elementary morality to focus on my own countries crimes before pointing fingers at others.
We understand this perfectly well when we talk about enemy states. So for example, when the Ayatollah calls us devils we rightly laugh and mock him. It would be like the Soviets in the 1980s criticizing Vietnam. What would we say? We would rightly point out that they are invading Afghanistan.
It is a basic principle of morality that one should focus on his own crimes before pointing out the crimes of others. Children know this.
I am not making up studies that are citing our behavior as prime causes of terrorism. These things are happening and scholarship is virtually universal in outlining them.
Iranian dissidents should focus on criticizing Irans regime. We should focus on ours. Its healthy to take an adversarial role with ones government.
To be clear, I do not for a second think we are responsible for every ill in the world. But we are responsible for a lot of it. I would feel like a hypocrite to talk about China's human rights abuses. Which by the way, is exactly what China does towards us. They tell their population all the bad things we do. Their hypocrites.
But we are responsible for the actions I mentioned and when discussing terrorism they are relevant here.
By the way, the government is very different then we as Americans. Governments are power centers. Thats what they are. Ours is no different. Its not an indictment of Americans, its an indictment of governments. To me that is the premise this country was founded on. In my view there is no patriotism in supporting ones government at the expense of its citizens.
There seem to me plenty of people here who support US atrocities no matter how awful they are. What makes the actions good is that we did it. Stories about how if use violence it must be for the general good because we are America. Yeah, thats the job for propagandists for power and violence and its the task of populations to free themselves from those types of doctrinal controls and constraints.
I love my country. But love isn't being blind in my view. Its honestly assessing whats going on and finding ways to fix it.
I'm so glad I stay away from these threads
several other posters here disagree with you, as evidenced by their desire to talk to him. IMO, they fully share the blame for destroying any rational thread.
Sophomores do that when it is revealed that the sanitized history and civic perspective they first learned is not the whole and complete story.
That's true of the second and third and fourth generation and decade of perspective one gains. Enjoy the journey and stay open to peeling the onion.