for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Cooper or White with Cruz, Beckham and Randle

smorgan741 : 4/25/2015 7:36 pm
First time poster, and since the beginning of this site an avid and loyal reader.Its fun to speculate, what's the thoughts on our receiving corps with the possible addition of Cooper or White if available? If already discussed too much, I apologize. Can we be the best and is it possible that in some way it could turn out to be a negative. One too many egos at the same position?
On paper yes  
est1986 : 4/25/2015 7:40 pm : link
But who knows how good they will be, we all know how good they can be, a lot of people are comparing Cooper to Fitzgerald, White to Julio, and Parker to AJ Green. So if they all pan out and if we land either three then yes we would be scary good at making plays in the passing game.
People want a better running game.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/25/2015 7:46 pm : link
They want the direct relationship of getting an OL. Yes, that can help but better than getting another OL in the first is MAKING the defense have to drop a guy back in coverage. This is simple math. One less guy in the box leads to better odds at running the ball. Now, add that in with a really good player in the second and you are now talking about one of the top offenses in the league if it all works out.
4/15  
Randy in CT : 4/25/2015 7:53 pm : link
Ah, wee lamb... Who were thou in a previous incarnation?
Reminds me of...  
smorgan741 : 4/25/2015 8:03 pm : link
How strong our linebacking core was when we added Carl Banks in'84. Easily the best in the league and the strength of the team. Could be again what separates us and propels us to division champs.
Cooper is the most NFL ready and my choice  
SGMen : 4/25/2015 9:22 pm : link
white is also a good choice
Has nothing to do w  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/26/2015 12:24 am : link
Ego. More to do with investing a large portion of your resources in one positon. Reese has spent more picks in Rds 1-3 than any other as the GM . He has Beckum and Randle left and half of BBI has Randle out the door after this year.

The OL is one of the worst in the league 3 years running. LB Same if not the worst. TE Thin. Saftey paper thin. His ROI blows. Actually he rarely seems to resign the guys he does hit on. And Eli Pronce and JPP 3 of the best players on the roster will all be FA next year.

Time to move on from thinking WRs are the only postion on the team.
Randleis a FA  
TommyWiseau : 4/26/2015 1:24 am : link
After the season, no guarantee he is back. Cruz has a knee, who knows if he will be healthy again. We are one injury away from having the shittiest WR corps in the NFL. If one of the top WRs are there and we have them graded higher then the Olineman, you take the WR
RE: Randleis a FA  
SGMen : 4/26/2015 2:29 am : link
In comment 12249612 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
After the season, no guarantee he is back. Cruz has a knee, who knows if he will be healthy again. We are one injury away from having the shittiest WR corps in the NFL. If one of the top WRs are there and we have them graded higher then the Olineman, you take the WR
Agreed, go boa always regardless of position.
OL  
Big Blue Fan 74 : 4/26/2015 7:35 am : link
It's not as simple as saying another 1st round WR will make the other team have 1 less player in the box. We have a poor offensive line. That means:

1). We all know Coughlin is going to run the ball whether the the running game is working or not. It might as well be effective. The Giants, dominate when we are running the ball well. Try to think of a game where we dominated our opponent even though the running game was awful.

2). On the other hand, our most painful Giants memories came from games where we couldn't run the ball. For example, we all remember giving up 28 points to the Eagles in the final 7 1/2 minutes back in December of 2010. I still think about the back to back 3-and-outs we had at the end. That loss cost us the playoffs that year and possibly another Super Bowl. The same thing happened when we had our "insurmountable" 38-14 lead against the 49ers in that awful 2002 playoff game. How many times do we have to learn this lesson before it finally sinks in. Nightmarish things happen to teams that can't run the ball when they have a lead in the 4th quarter.

3). When you have a poor OL on 3rd and short we are usually going to pass the ball. We are giving away too much to the defense by being 1 dimensional.

4). The situation gets magnified as we get closer to the other team's goal line. Having a poor OL means we are going to settle for more FGs instead of TDs than we should.

5). One of the most basic ideas in football is that we want to keep our offense of the field as much as possible. That means the other team's offense is on the bench and our defense is fresh. That also might let our star defensive players like JPP have a longer, healthier, more productive career.

6). How many times has Eli lead the league or been close to leading the league in interceptions? If you can't run the ball, and the other team's defense knows you can't run the ball, you are going to have a lot of interceptions. Period.

7). Imagine how amazing Eli and Beckham would be if we not only had a good running game but when we did throw the ball Eli had another second in the pocket without being touched? Imagine what Beckham could do if he had 1 additional second to get open.

It is clear to me having a dominant offensive line is the most important thing we can do to improve our team.
I'd include Parker  
mrvax : 4/26/2015 8:15 am : link
in this conversation also. Then you look for a Oline in round 2 or 3 and give the rest of this draft to defense.
That will provide lots of great highlight film material  
Victor in CT : 4/26/2015 8:38 am : link
to watch as the announcer describes the Giants most recent loss. They need OL help. Get consistently excellent OL play, win games.
It makes a lot of sense  
Glover : 4/26/2015 8:49 am : link
Cruz's health uncertain, Randle would be gone at the end of the season, and the ceiling can be ridiculously high. Somewhat like the Greatest Show on Turf with Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Prohl. Jennings is no Marshall Faulk, but there would be no shortage of playmakers. I hope the Giants get White or Cooper and they can get a good O Lineman in the second. Playmakers are premium. There are good linemen to be had in the 2nd.
Cooper and White are going to be gone before 9  
DavidinBMNY : 4/26/2015 8:55 am : link
The 6 players seemingly in everyone's top of the draft are them, the 2 QBS, Fowler and Williams.

Those players should go top 6. The wild card is gurley. I can't see him getting past the Rams at 10 and he may go earlier.
Agree/disagree......  
Doomster : 4/26/2015 9:06 am : link
OL
Big Blue Fan 74 : 7:35 am : link : reply
It's not as simple as saying another 1st round WR will make the other team have 1 less player in the box. We have a poor offensive line. That means:

1). We all know Coughlin is going to run the ball whether the the running game is working or not.

Unfortunately, that is true.....how many times have we seen this with a TC team?



2). On the other hand, our most painful Giants memories came from games where we couldn't run the ball.

But now you are comparing different teams, coaches, etc. Of course you want an offense with this capability...



3). When you have a poor OL on 3rd and short we are usually going to pass the ball. We are giving away too much to the defense by being 1 dimensional.

That is absolutely true....you make Eli's life much easier, and he becomes more dangerous, if the defense has to respect the run.



4). The situation gets magnified as we get closer to the other team's goal line. Having a poor OL means we are going to settle for more FGs instead of TDs than we should.

There is no denying the OL was allowed to fall apart from it's peak in 2008....




5). One of the most basic ideas in football is that we want to keep our offense of the field as much as possible. That means the other team's offense is on the bench and our defense is fresh. That also might let our star defensive players like JPP have a longer, healthier, more productive career.

On the other hand, if you have a defense that can make the other team go three and out, it gives your offense more opportunities....




6). How many times has Eli lead the league or been close to leading the league in interceptions? If you can't run the ball, and the other team's defense knows you can't run the ball, you are going to have a lot of interceptions. Period.

I don't think you can base that as the main reason for Eli's int's....




7). Imagine how amazing Eli and Beckham would be if we not only had a good running game but when we did throw the ball Eli had another second in the pocket without being touched? Imagine what Beckham could do if he had 1 additional second to get open.

That just is not reality, that is fantasy football....




It is clear to me having a dominant offensive line is the most important thing we can do to improve our team.

At this moment in time? Yes....If Eli is still the qb of the future, it has to be.....we have seen since 2010, what the lack of an OL has done to this offense....it's not just a matter of scoring a lot of points over the course of the season, it's a matter of being able to score when you need to....

Eli is not the same QB he was in 2011....he is older....probably can't take the hits like he use to...may be a half step slower in the pocket evading the rush....he needs that extra time....but the fact is, until last year, this offense was in a rut.....for years it was running the same plays, and forcing players to fit a system, they were not capable of......we also have a head coach, that has relied too much on his defense to protect leads, instead of going for the jugular with his offense....

In a perfect world, you can play, plug&play, but then, so can the other teams.....this team just has too many holes at the moment.....JPP still hasn't signed his tag....this team has no depth.....the defense is going through a radical change......and once again, we will be counting on guys like Beason, Jennings, Prince, Cruz, Taylor, Schwartz, Jenkins, Ayers not to get hurt...

If the offense continues to improve on last year, and the defense progressively gets better during the season, who knows what might happen? But right now, it looks like another 8-8, +/-1, season, which seems to be the M.O. for this team....this team is in rebuild mode, and the offense has to carry this team this year.....having a strong OL in front of Eli will accomplish this....

We have to hit on those first two draft picks, and have to get contributions from the later rounds........the Front Office, is under a lot of pressure in this draft, to produce this year, and also to fill holes with potential cap castoffs, of other teams.....the JPP situation is becoming an albatross around their necks....
Getting a better OL forces the defensive to  
PatersonPlank : 4/26/2015 11:28 am : link
1) bring a defender up into the box because in theory our run game will be better
2) bring a defender (or two) more on a pass rush because the OL will be able to defend better

Right now the defense plays with the 4 DL, and they do fine stopping our running game and pressuring Eli. This means 7 players back in pass protection. Getting 5 or 6 up means many more open spots for short and long passes.

An OL pick, along with a healthy Schwartz and Richburg at Center, makes the whole offense better.
Back to the Corner