Reading recent posts from Jordan and what JonC is hearing on who the Giants are likely projected to take, I am very curious as to who the Giants would really want if Fowler, Beasley, Williams, Cooper and White are off the board and Flowers and Scherff are sitting there at #9. I am trying to make sense as to what would be more logical given this scenerio.
From all these different scouting reports that I read, I get the idea that Scherff is the more established and NFL ready player with great technique that is projected at guard by lots of scouts, but according to the Giants, he can play tackle. I also hear he is a potential Pro Bowl at guard. The uncertainty with him is how well of a tackle can he be if placed in that spot. Can he play high level at LT and RT?
With Flowers, I get the idea that this is an Olineman that has the tools that the Giants look for at the tackle position, but has sloppy technique and relies more on his physicial tools to get him by. Like Scherff, he can be placed at guard. I just don't hear anyone say he is a potential Pro Bowl guard. I do get the sense that he has a higher ceiling than Scheff maybe at the LT or RT position. Does Flowers have the potential to be a Pro Bowl LT or RT?
Both these player can improve the run game and possess the "nasty mentality" that the Giants have been missing on the offensive line for the past few years. My question is how do these two prospects workout in the passing game? Reading Sy's reports, Scherff has let his opponent get involved in the play more often than would be desires. Flowers only gets by right now with his physical tools, but is sloppy in pass protection.
We really won't know if this scenario will occur, if it happens. But, I am very curious as to who would actually be the selection. Who knows? Sy is very high on Collins and Peat. JonC is high on Peat. Maybe the Giants brass see the same thing and are keeping his more hushed.
Oh, by the way....Parker and Shelton are still on the board.
Tomorrow I will say Scherff..:)
In terms of Scherff vs. Flowers, I go back and forth because I do think they both bring a lot of similar attributes to the table. Flowers may have the higher potential because he has more prototypical size/strength for a tackle and he's more untapped (20 years old). They're both hard working, tough, nasty players who would likely start from day 1. Scherff is more polished and based on the testing he's also the better athlete so I suspect they'd rank him higher. When they chose Pugh, he lacked the prototypical size other guys had in favor of his polish/technique. Scouting reports seem to be more mixed on Peat's nastiness/toughness, so it's harder to predict where he would rank. Ability wise though I think they're all very similar and it's very likely 1 of them is a Giant at this time next week.
I follow UM pretty closely and everything I've ever seen has indicated the work ethic and intelligence are both there. His father is a lawyer and he's regarded as one of the hardest workers on the team. Came back from MCL surgery in like 8 days this past season. Miami's coaching the past 4-5 years has been notorious for under developing players. I mean, look how many top draft picks they had and they barely had a winning season.
Scherff is more polished and the equal to Flowers athletically so I'd take him.
The Gregory vs. Flowers tape is making me question Flowers. For a guy whose mammoth size/strength is supposed to be his biggest asset, how can you get thrown around like a ragdoll by a guy 100lbs lighter than you? I know Gregory is stronger than he looks, but that was still a very weak showing by Flowers.
Frankly, I'd prefer Peat over Scherff or Flowers. I think Peat's issues are more fixable.
I don't entirely disagree, but Fluker and Flowers both played in more pro-style systems. Robinson obviously set a ton of records at the combine, which the other 2 didn't do, but I remember there being a lot of comments that he was going to be a project in pass pro since he wasn't asked to do it much at Auburn (which turned out to be very accurate).
Scherff is more polished and the equal to Flowers athletically so I'd take him.
Why would the Giants takean OL at 9 who has "bad technique?" That's more about the lesser rounds
But there's no doubt that he's a project; but a project who I think has huge upside, as opposed to a guy like La'el Collins, who I think is what he is. Indeed, Scherff, as much as I like him and want him over Flowers, has imo less upside at OT than Flowers.
what Doc said. Why is everyone so desperate to spend the #9 pick on a guard? You want to re-create the Packer offense, you need the 4 great wideouts the Packers have historically used.
There'll be lots of good choices still available at #9, with trading down among them if they get a great offer. But if they took Scherff at #9, they'd would be adding an important piece, and instantly upgrading their entire offense.
OL, DT, WR and some DE, I'm on board. Light in the pants edge rushers, not so much.
Tomorrow I will say Scherff..:)
2nd round grade from gmen- ain't happening unless I'm round 2 for Parker with the Giants
Scherff has 4 years experience, plenty of awards which gives him plenty of supporters and a high floor. But he's pretty much at his ceiling. He is not an NFL tackle imo. He is athletic but I don't see the mean streak or nastiness as many have said. His game against MD was all I needed to see that he can't pass protect from the outside. I think he'll be a solid guard but you don't take just 'solid' guards with the 9th overall pick.
As for Flowers, he needs work, especially with his feet, but he's young and he's coachable. He's the same age as Tyron Smith, also the 9th pick back in 2011. Tyron Smith learned from the right side while being coached up before becoming a Pro Bowler and All Pro LT the past two seasons. Same age as Greg Robinson, last year's #2 pick who started at guard before being pushed to the outside because of injury. Jonathan Ogden started his rookie year at guard before becoming one of the most dominate offensive lineman of the past generation at LT.
Flowers is the prototype you want in regards to size and length but he has elite strength too. Keep in mind that despite the lacking technique and how it would lead to hurries and hits, most notably in the Nebraska game, Flowers didn't allow a sack all season. And that was with a true Freshman at QB. Watch the kind of running lanes he created for Duke Johnson. He did that with his immense strength at the age of 20. Just imagine what kind of player he'll be once he's in an NFL locker room and his footwork is corrected. Even if he has to stay inside I think he'd be a better guard than Scherff which is why I have him rated higher overall.
For basketball fans it reminds me of Emeka Okafor vs. Dwight Howard. One was a polished college player with plenty of accolades and the other was coming out of high school with all the tools. As far as who to pick, the Magic made the right choice. Okafor was a solid player for a long time but Dwight Howard will be a Hall of Famer. In most cases when picking this high, you want the surest thing right away. A player with Flowers's tools and potential is one of the few exceptions, especially in a relatively weak draft class.
I'd trade down.
Quote:
...than Erick Flowers.
The Gregory vs. Flowers tape is making me question Flowers. For a guy whose mammoth size/strength is supposed to be his biggest asset, how can you get thrown around like a ragdoll by a guy 100lbs lighter than you? I know Gregory is stronger than he looks, but that was still a very weak showing by Flowers.
Frankly, I'd prefer Peat over Scherff or Flowers. I think Peat's issues are more fixable.
That should also let you know how not human Gregory is. Gregory is a freak, who plays hard. I know the Giants won't pick him, but He reminds me so much of Jason Taylor (who also played in Gregory's weight range) and I just hope he gets drafted far away from the Giants.
JonC, thanks for the insight. I like that you back up your sourcing with analysis whenever possible. Makes it easier to rationalize.
It is hard for me to grade any one of Scherff, Flowers or Peat ahead of the other. To me, they all have different strengths and weaknesses.
Scherff - dominant and nasty run blocker, good pass blocker, but does he have the feet to play tackle in the NFL? Those who would know disagree.
Flowers - raw but physically impressive. Makes up for inconsistent technique with strength and mean streak. Can be a RT in the league, but needs more finesse to play LT.
Peat - Good feet, good technique, still needs to grow into his body and improve overall strength. A massive frame who has all the tools, but reportedly lacks a nasty streak. Accused of being soft at times. Great potential, but is this a case of a guy who has some maturing left to do (mentally and physically) or is this who he is?
So if it comes down to one of those three, it seems that the deciding factor is simply which strength the Giants prioritize most. Is it the ability to play LT in two years? If so, then you probably go with Peat. Or is it the ability to instantly improve the run game from a its lackluster 3.6 ypc in 2014. If so, then you can't go wrong with Scherff or Flowers, but I would prefer they trade down if its Flowers.
Or...take the top remaining WR or even Gurly at #9, and then trade your 2016 1st round pick and 4th rounder to jump back in between picks 15-20 and take Flowers. Hey, the Giants are playing the AFC east this year...and we all know what that means :) Let's hops so.
what Doc said. Why is everyone so desperate to spend the #9 pick on a guard? You want to re-create the Packer offense, you need the 4 great wideouts the Packers have historically used.
That sounds an awful lot like LSU Wide receivers. Dwayne Bowe, that guy who got drafted by the Chargers in the first round (Craig Davis or something), Michael Clayton, Deverey Henderson, Early Doucet, Rueben Randle.
Can't judge a school by the guys who failed before him.
Scherff's athletic numbers blow Riley Reiff and Bulaga's numbers out of the water. Scherff's 3 cone drill was .7 of a second faster than Bulaga's for example. His forty yard dash .2 seconds faster. He's a much better athlete than the other guys.
Doesn't mean he won't succeed, he just means it's not fair to compare.
the only one who was close to the same athleticism as Scherff was Gallery who was a bust as a LT, but he started a 103 games in his career and turned out to be a very nice guard.
Definitely capitalize on the deep WR crop at some point but it doesn't have to be 'early'. The contributing talent with upside is likely available to us through four rounds. Love the idea of Conley in Round 3.
Quote:
...than Erick Flowers.
The Gregory vs. Flowers tape is making me question Flowers. For a guy whose mammoth size/strength is supposed to be his biggest asset, how can you get thrown around like a ragdoll by a guy 100lbs lighter than you? I know Gregory is stronger than he looks, but that was still a very weak showing by Flowers.
Frankly, I'd prefer Peat over Scherff or Flowers. I think Peat's issues are more fixable.
You must have watched a different tape than I did.
Flowers did have a bad game against Eli Harold, but some say he was hurt that day.
Lol, I promise it won't
bunch of idiots on these boardS!
o yea, and FLowers beat out the starting RT as a true freshman.