of the current roster. DE is a significant need often overlooked, and they're one injury away from problems at WR and CB, not to mention the deficit at S.
I wouldn't categorize Wynn as a run-stuffer only based on his first year. He switched form DE-DT in college, so I think that hampered his development. He showed he could run a little bit and his second year should give us a better sense of how much pass rush he can provide. Having said that, I would not disagree with the need to pick up another DE or two.
re: the LBs, even if Beason doesn't have a catastrophic injury - he may still get those dings that hamper his performance. I hope I'm wrong, but we may have already gotten the last good production out of him. McClain gives you everything you want but his lack of athleticism is an issue.
You just have to wonder - how can a team with such a rich tradition of outstanding LB play consistently fail to replenish the pool with talent from the college ranks. Our best LBs - Beason, Mitchell, Pierce all come from other teams drafts. And, if it wasn't for Gettlemen - we might not have even gotten Beason. Do they need new LB scouts?
I agree on the DL, been screaming for JPP to be the LDE for 3 years. It suits his game more. I still don't see Moore becoming a great player.
OL has to be addressed. I think we know what Beatty is, an avg LT. As long as he doesn't regress to below avg they can live with it. Schwartz has to play RG, not LG. I think Pugh will be ok at either RT or LG, but if Jerry is a starter again they are in trouble. They need a large dose of NASTY on both lines. Richburg can't be worse than Walton, can he? Please say no!!!
You're right to be skeptical about Cruz. I would be surprised if he comes back as the same guy opening day.
Counting on Beason in any way other than that he will be on the IR at some point is pure folly.
I remember in "Finding Giants", they referenced Kerry Wynn Â
Agree with pretty much everything. I think we are fine at DT for 2015 - could definitely see us drafting one on Day 3, but we have far bigger needs in days 1 and 2.
DE is interesting - on paper I actually think we are OK for 2015, but could definitely use another strong 2 way DE opposite JPP. The other thing you have to consider is JPP, Ayers, and Selvie are all set (at this point anyway) to become FA's at the end of the season.
If there is one thing we NEED to make sure we come away with in this draft, it's a day one starting quality OL. We can't come into the season with John Jerry as a starting guard. Whether we grab one in round 1 or in round 2 (my preferred scenario), we need to grab one.
The wild card in all this is safety. I'm still baffled how we didn't address this at all in the offseason - at least thus far. We still may bring Stevie Brown back, but even if we do, we still look extremely weak/thin at safety. We also would be foolish to rely on Jackson, C. Brown, or Gordy to be contributors at safety this year. There are a few guys we could get in the 4th or 5th round that could be good fits (Adrian Amos, Chris Hackett, Jordan Richards, etc.)...just wish we weren't in a position where we HAD to get a safety or 2 that can play year one.
the S position feels like the TE position did this time last year.
It shows you how far they felt Antrel really declined that they didn't even attempt to bring him back with no other options in FA that they seemed high on after McCourty signed.
the S position feels like the TE position did this time last year.
It shows you how far they felt Antrel really declined that they didn't even attempt to bring him back with no other options in FA that they seemed high on after McCourty signed.
Right - seems very similar to TE last year but we even felt that way about TE AFTER the draft, since we didn't draft one. The thing about TE though is it's almost sort of a luxury position (in my opinion)...you can control where/how you use your TE's. That's not really the case for Safety - in today's NFL I feel like you need solid cover safeties in your defensive backfield.
I was on board with them not resigning Antrell - thought he would be asking for more money than he was worth and more money than we were willing to spend. Just sort of baffled how we didn't make a run at any of the other options after McCourty (Rahim Moore, Kendrick Lewis, a couple others). Jeromy Miles and Dawan Landry are still out there (as is Stevie Brown obviously)...really hoping we make a move for one of those guys along with drafting at least one.
unless strange things happen in the top ten and a player falls to us we didn't expect. In that case, say if it's Cooper or White, then you take the BPA. Question is, since the Giants trust their board only, who do they take? Scherff, Flowers, Collins...will be interesting to see who it is although I think it will be Collins so they can move Pugh inside.
Use our early picks on beefy guys, and for insurance against Cruz's knee and Randle's departure, take a smart, athletic WR who's: 1) good at catching fades, 2) a deep threat, and most important, 3) won't mind being in OBJ's shadow because he has interests beyond football.
Your most used word is "if", and deservedly so. This roster is full of them. That's what happens when you have successive poor drafts like 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.
To me Beason is as big of an "if" as Cruz. With that being said, would love to see the Miami or Clemson MLB selected in Round 2. We need that sideline to sideline presence that Beason gave us for a few games in 2013. Unfortunately he's a china doll.
My take is a little different than yours. Mainly due to players currently on the roster. As I said, I can't argue with your observations yet, I have a more positive view. Jay Bromley was expected to be a bit player last year and should be expected to become a starter this year after being in an NFL strength and conditioning program. Ellis should contribute much more than Patterson did last year. I can't argue if Shelton is our pick, he would be an impact player in year 1.
JPP is a stout run-defender but hasn't come close to his early pass-rushing prowess, this is a pressing need based on your own analysis of the roster. A move to select a top DE who could be there when we pick #9 might be the best option, I would be thrilled if Dupree was there and ours at #9.
I see solid depth at OG with Mosely and Herman on the roster, the latter was expected to be in the mix last year prior to his suspension being announced and imposed, I am also hoping Moseley is healthy.
Your concern with the OT situation is warranted, I have Peat as the best OT prospect out there but don't feel he is worthy of a #9 pick. As ROT, Pugh's stats were skewed to the minus side by that 1 terrible game he had when hampered by the apparent injury. We also picked up that beheamoth, Bamiro this offseason, he has me excited, I can only hope it is warranted.
I agree we need to acquire solid CB depth as Amukamara has trouble staying on the field and DRC played injured last year.
The same applies to S, can Taylor stay on the field and is Berhe the answer at the other S position.
WR is a position of roster depth, albeit somewhat unproven.
LB is an area of need, Beason's injury history and it being the final year of his contract would indicate a replacement be acquired in this years draft.
I think it's when I get to your Summary section that it all sinks in about this team.
You list several things which -- if they break the right way -- this team should be OK.
And that's just the problem. The law of averages is all about some things breaking one way... other things the other way. All of the "ifs" just ain't gonna break all in our favor!
The Giants desperately need a very strong 2015 Draft. And not just for the coming season. The Giants are a bad football team, and they need a few seasons to make things right. A strong draft this week will push the boat in the right direction.
is 34 years old and, in 11 starts last year, had 1 sack, tied for the fewest in his career. I don't think he's got much after this season. And its doubtful that they see Ellis as a long-term solution.
The Giants drafted Bromley to eventually replace Jenkins. Â
I had the impression the Canadian football league was a step above college....is that not the case? I would consider Brett Jones at least as an option....no? Professional player voted best player in league.
I also like Ayers.....the new FAs......plus the biggest addition Spags.
Considering.......a third of roster turns over every year. We are not that different that anyone else.
Getting 4/5 starters from last years draft......is a very rare draft. OL and safety starters would be great....anything else is gravy
when has Herman ever been in the mix? I've seen nothing from this guy.
Through all of camp and preseason last year. He was even working as B/U Center. Being on suspension at the start of his 2nd year having spent his 1st year in the strength and conditioning program, there would have been no reason to release and resign him later last season if he hadn't shown anything. Obviously, I could be wrong and he doesn't make the 1sr rd of cuts this year.
QB - QUESTION: do they believe Eli has 4+ years (high level) left? Do they believe Nassib is a viable backup? ANSWER: I think its safe to say YES is the clear answer here. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: NONE.
RB: QUESTION: Do they believe in Andre Williams and Rashad Jennings as a 20-25 carry duo? And Vereen as a 70 catch RB? ANSWER: Again, I think this is a steady, reliable/smart, hard working...if unspectacular group. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: NONE in my opinion but I do like the notion of a 7th rounder like Akeem Hunt or Thomas Rawls. I don't believe or like the Gurley chatter at 9.
WR: QUESTION: Do they believe Cruz will revert back to form to an above average WR2 in 2015? Is Corey Washington in their plans? Do they think Marcus Harris is an NFL WR (he was talked about so highly last training camp)? Can they see Dwayne Harris being a more productive WR than he was in Dallas? ANSWER: I have no idea. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I really don't think Cooper will be there at 9 and also believe that would be a luxury pick. If he was, one would think that might be a trade down option with Cleveland for the 12th pick and a 3rd rounder or the 18th pick and a 2nd rounder. If they don't go high w a WR, I'd like Lippett in Rds 3/4, Ty Montgomery in Rd 4, or Hardy in Rd 5. Crowder also a nice option.
TE: 5th round would be a nice spot for O'Leary, Boyle or Heurmann. James maybe next tier.
OL: QUESTION: With Beatty approaching 30 and historically inconsistent especially vs power, do they feel compelled to draft his replacement now (i.e. Peat who would play a year at RT)? Do they see Jones a viable backup this year (or is this a red shirt type year)? Do they think Pugh is a better RT of LG? ANSWER: I think the Beatty question is a strong yes. I think Jones has promise but drafting a guy like Marpet may be the same upside and downside (is either ready in 2015? Unlikely). POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I think Peat makes too much sense for not only the reason that he's a LT that can play RT for a year but that he allow a Pugh move to G and possible fortifies two positions with one key position being upgraded (LT) in 2016.
DL: QUESTION: Do they think JPP is a long term guy or a very good player who may not have long term upside (relative to contract commitment)? Is Ayers likely to be ready for 2015? Do they feel as optimistic about Bromley as they did about Joseph/Hankins after their red shirt years? Do they trust Moore in terms of assignments or whatever has limited his playing time in his 1st couple of years? ANSWER: I really think they answer is NO to all of these questions. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I would like to draft Shelton because I think he is a game changing DT and not limited to being a NT. I don't think Reese will go this route. I think he'll go DL in Round 2/3. I can see Preston Smith, Marcus Hardison, Michael Bennett, Xavier Cooper, Carl Davis, Grady Jarrett being targets.
MLB: QUESTION: When Beason goes down with his next injury (no disrespect to him, but I don't believe its reasonable to expect anything else at this point), are they comfortable with the next man up be it McClean or the kid from Jaxsonville? ANSWER: This is a another reason why you fortify your DL i.e. w Shelton. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I think Ramik Wilson or Ben Heeney, two fast MLBs would be attractive in Rd 5.
OLB: Its not LT and Banks, that's for sure, but I don't see another drafted OLB this year.
CB: QUESTION: Do they want to draft Prince's 2016 right now and have the guy play a hybrid safety/3rd CB role for Spags? If so, Jalen Collins, PJ Williams or Alex Carter fit the bill because they are all good sized CBs with enough development to play this roll. Do they want to replace our nickel CB out of Va Tech? If the answer is "hell yes" then ball hawks Senquez Golson and Steven Nelson would be great graps.
It has become somewhat obvious to me over the past few days that if the Giants do not trade down in Rd. 1, there is an obvious choice. The pick at #9 (if available and according to most draftniks, he probably will be) is DT Danny Shelton.
He will assist Hankins defend the run and take some double-teaming off Big Hank.
Moreover, Shelton will require double-teaming in pass situations and will also take some double-teaming off JPP, helping to make the pass rush more effective.
Sorry to all those Jay Bromley fans. I'm rooting for him big time as he is from my crib (Jamaica, NY) but I don't see him being anything more than an rotational sub as he is weak vs. the run directly at him (let's see if he's built up his lower body and physical strength over the off-season).
Gents. None of the OLmen are sure fire starters. Certainly none of the OTs are a given (even Peat is raw). Sherff, who is the consensus selection for the Giants at #9 can't pass block and will not be effective on the outside (i.e., at OT) as he will be like a toll booth when faced with attempting to pass block quick-footed pass rushers.
There is near equivalent talent amongst the OLmen through Rds. 2-3. That is the place where the Giants will get the most bang for their buck in their OL draft selection(s).
And, yes, we are desperate for a talented OLmen as well as a safety. It doesn't mean we can't address those needs on day 2.
to describe Kennard as the new Kiwanuka? Is he playing his old spot? Linebacker on early downs and rush the passer on passing downs? If Kennard can be Kiwanuka and Moore can replicate Osi and we have JPP we may not be in such bad shape. We have enough linebackers to allow Kennard to be flexible now too especially with Thomas and Casillas signed.
to describe Kennard as the new Kiwanuka? Is he playing his old spot? Linebacker on early downs and rush the passer on passing downs? If Kennard can be Kiwanuka and Moore can replicate Osi and we have JPP we may not be in such bad shape. We have enough linebackers to allow Kennard to be flexible now too especially with Thomas and Casillas signed.
No. Kennard is a LB who can rush the passer. Kiki was a DE playing out of position.
Trade back with Browns for a 2 or 3. Get Gurly, pick 2 OLs and a DL in rounds 2 and 3. Gurly, OBJ, Eli the tripletes. Pick the best 5 OL from Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg, Pugh and two rookies.
Ol fixed sort-of. Running game fixed.
Defense helped by improved TOP and mid-round infusion of depth.
But I was impressed with his run defense in the limited amount of time I saw him...and this was BEFORE a full year in an NFL weight program.
You just have to wonder - how can a team with such a rich tradition of outstanding LB play consistently fail to replenish the pool with talent from the college ranks. Our best LBs - Beason, Mitchell, Pierce all come from other teams drafts. And, if it wasn't for Gettlemen - we might not have even gotten Beason. Do they need new LB scouts?
OL has to be addressed. I think we know what Beatty is, an avg LT. As long as he doesn't regress to below avg they can live with it. Schwartz has to play RG, not LG. I think Pugh will be ok at either RT or LG, but if Jerry is a starter again they are in trouble. They need a large dose of NASTY on both lines. Richburg can't be worse than Walton, can he? Please say no!!!
You're right to be skeptical about Cruz. I would be surprised if he comes back as the same guy opening day.
Counting on Beason in any way other than that he will be on the IR at some point is pure folly.
DE is interesting - on paper I actually think we are OK for 2015, but could definitely use another strong 2 way DE opposite JPP. The other thing you have to consider is JPP, Ayers, and Selvie are all set (at this point anyway) to become FA's at the end of the season.
If there is one thing we NEED to make sure we come away with in this draft, it's a day one starting quality OL. We can't come into the season with John Jerry as a starting guard. Whether we grab one in round 1 or in round 2 (my preferred scenario), we need to grab one.
The wild card in all this is safety. I'm still baffled how we didn't address this at all in the offseason - at least thus far. We still may bring Stevie Brown back, but even if we do, we still look extremely weak/thin at safety. We also would be foolish to rely on Jackson, C. Brown, or Gordy to be contributors at safety this year. There are a few guys we could get in the 4th or 5th round that could be good fits (Adrian Amos, Chris Hackett, Jordan Richards, etc.)...just wish we weren't in a position where we HAD to get a safety or 2 that can play year one.
It shows you how far they felt Antrel really declined that they didn't even attempt to bring him back with no other options in FA that they seemed high on after McCourty signed.
It shows you how far they felt Antrel really declined that they didn't even attempt to bring him back with no other options in FA that they seemed high on after McCourty signed.
Right - seems very similar to TE last year but we even felt that way about TE AFTER the draft, since we didn't draft one. The thing about TE though is it's almost sort of a luxury position (in my opinion)...you can control where/how you use your TE's. That's not really the case for Safety - in today's NFL I feel like you need solid cover safeties in your defensive backfield.
I was on board with them not resigning Antrell - thought he would be asking for more money than he was worth and more money than we were willing to spend. Just sort of baffled how we didn't make a run at any of the other options after McCourty (Rahim Moore, Kendrick Lewis, a couple others). Jeromy Miles and Dawan Landry are still out there (as is Stevie Brown obviously)...really hoping we make a move for one of those guys along with drafting at least one.
JPP is a stout run-defender but hasn't come close to his early pass-rushing prowess, this is a pressing need based on your own analysis of the roster. A move to select a top DE who could be there when we pick #9 might be the best option, I would be thrilled if Dupree was there and ours at #9.
I see solid depth at OG with Mosely and Herman on the roster, the latter was expected to be in the mix last year prior to his suspension being announced and imposed, I am also hoping Moseley is healthy.
Your concern with the OT situation is warranted, I have Peat as the best OT prospect out there but don't feel he is worthy of a #9 pick. As ROT, Pugh's stats were skewed to the minus side by that 1 terrible game he had when hampered by the apparent injury. We also picked up that beheamoth, Bamiro this offseason, he has me excited, I can only hope it is warranted.
I agree we need to acquire solid CB depth as Amukamara has trouble staying on the field and DRC played injured last year.
The same applies to S, can Taylor stay on the field and is Berhe the answer at the other S position.
WR is a position of roster depth, albeit somewhat unproven.
LB is an area of need, Beason's injury history and it being the final year of his contract would indicate a replacement be acquired in this years draft.
I think it's when I get to your Summary section that it all sinks in about this team.
You list several things which -- if they break the right way -- this team should be OK.
And that's just the problem. The law of averages is all about some things breaking one way... other things the other way. All of the "ifs" just ain't gonna break all in our favor!
The Giants desperately need a very strong 2015 Draft. And not just for the coming season. The Giants are a bad football team, and they need a few seasons to make things right. A strong draft this week will push the boat in the right direction.
Thanks again.
I also like Ayers.....the new FAs......plus the biggest addition Spags.
Considering.......a third of roster turns over every year. We are not that different that anyone else.
Getting 4/5 starters from last years draft......is a very rare draft. OL and safety starters would be great....anything else is gravy
Through all of camp and preseason last year. He was even working as B/U Center. Being on suspension at the start of his 2nd year having spent his 1st year in the strength and conditioning program, there would have been no reason to release and resign him later last season if he hadn't shown anything. Obviously, I could be wrong and he doesn't make the 1sr rd of cuts this year.
RB: QUESTION: Do they believe in Andre Williams and Rashad Jennings as a 20-25 carry duo? And Vereen as a 70 catch RB? ANSWER: Again, I think this is a steady, reliable/smart, hard working...if unspectacular group. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: NONE in my opinion but I do like the notion of a 7th rounder like Akeem Hunt or Thomas Rawls. I don't believe or like the Gurley chatter at 9.
WR: QUESTION: Do they believe Cruz will revert back to form to an above average WR2 in 2015? Is Corey Washington in their plans? Do they think Marcus Harris is an NFL WR (he was talked about so highly last training camp)? Can they see Dwayne Harris being a more productive WR than he was in Dallas? ANSWER: I have no idea. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I really don't think Cooper will be there at 9 and also believe that would be a luxury pick. If he was, one would think that might be a trade down option with Cleveland for the 12th pick and a 3rd rounder or the 18th pick and a 2nd rounder. If they don't go high w a WR, I'd like Lippett in Rds 3/4, Ty Montgomery in Rd 4, or Hardy in Rd 5. Crowder also a nice option.
TE: 5th round would be a nice spot for O'Leary, Boyle or Heurmann. James maybe next tier.
OL: QUESTION: With Beatty approaching 30 and historically inconsistent especially vs power, do they feel compelled to draft his replacement now (i.e. Peat who would play a year at RT)? Do they see Jones a viable backup this year (or is this a red shirt type year)? Do they think Pugh is a better RT of LG? ANSWER: I think the Beatty question is a strong yes. I think Jones has promise but drafting a guy like Marpet may be the same upside and downside (is either ready in 2015? Unlikely). POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I think Peat makes too much sense for not only the reason that he's a LT that can play RT for a year but that he allow a Pugh move to G and possible fortifies two positions with one key position being upgraded (LT) in 2016.
DL: QUESTION: Do they think JPP is a long term guy or a very good player who may not have long term upside (relative to contract commitment)? Is Ayers likely to be ready for 2015? Do they feel as optimistic about Bromley as they did about Joseph/Hankins after their red shirt years? Do they trust Moore in terms of assignments or whatever has limited his playing time in his 1st couple of years? ANSWER: I really think they answer is NO to all of these questions. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I would like to draft Shelton because I think he is a game changing DT and not limited to being a NT. I don't think Reese will go this route. I think he'll go DL in Round 2/3. I can see Preston Smith, Marcus Hardison, Michael Bennett, Xavier Cooper, Carl Davis, Grady Jarrett being targets.
MLB: QUESTION: When Beason goes down with his next injury (no disrespect to him, but I don't believe its reasonable to expect anything else at this point), are they comfortable with the next man up be it McClean or the kid from Jaxsonville? ANSWER: This is a another reason why you fortify your DL i.e. w Shelton. POSSIBLE DRAFT STRATEGY: I think Ramik Wilson or Ben Heeney, two fast MLBs would be attractive in Rd 5.
OLB: Its not LT and Banks, that's for sure, but I don't see another drafted OLB this year.
CB: QUESTION: Do they want to draft Prince's 2016 right now and have the guy play a hybrid safety/3rd CB role for Spags? If so, Jalen Collins, PJ Williams or Alex Carter fit the bill because they are all good sized CBs with enough development to play this roll. Do they want to replace our nickel CB out of Va Tech? If the answer is "hell yes" then ball hawks Senquez Golson and Steven Nelson would be great graps.
Safety: We know the questions.
My mock:
1. OT Andrus Peat, Stanford, 6'7" 325
2. DT Michael Bennett, Ohio State, 6'2 294
3. CB/S Alex Carter, Stanford, 6'0 200
4. S Adrian Amos, Penn State 6'0 215
5. LB Ramik Wilson, Georgia, 6'2 240
6. TE Nick O'Leary, FSU 6'3 245
7. OG Shaq Mason, Ga Tech, 6'1 295
7a. RB Akeem Hunt, Purdue, 5'8 185
He will assist Hankins defend the run and take some double-teaming off Big Hank.
Moreover, Shelton will require double-teaming in pass situations and will also take some double-teaming off JPP, helping to make the pass rush more effective.
Sorry to all those Jay Bromley fans. I'm rooting for him big time as he is from my crib (Jamaica, NY) but I don't see him being anything more than an rotational sub as he is weak vs. the run directly at him (let's see if he's built up his lower body and physical strength over the off-season).
There is near equivalent talent amongst the OLmen through Rds. 2-3. That is the place where the Giants will get the most bang for their buck in their OL draft selection(s).
And, yes, we are desperate for a talented OLmen as well as a safety. It doesn't mean we can't address those needs on day 2.
Under that premise, do you go w one of the top OGs in Rd 2 or hope Humperies is there or perhaps go Marpet in 2 or 3?
Point is can we fix this OL is Peat or Sherff or Flowers isn't the # 9 pick?
No. Kennard is a LB who can rush the passer. Kiki was a DE playing out of position.
Ol fixed sort-of. Running game fixed.
Defense helped by improved TOP and mid-round infusion of depth.