So I've been part of BBI for years now (old handle was nyjuggeranut before the BBI hacking incident). I normally don't start too many threads, moreso just chime in here and there but enjoy everything about the site and wanted to share some info.
Shortly after the 2009 draft Jerry Reese visited the church I attend. I started a post on his visit where he made several comments, one of which had to do with the Giants being extremely high on Darius Heyward-Bey. Well, I got talking to the person at my church yesterday who has connections with the Giants and set-up not only Jerry Reese's meeting, but Coach Spags visit as well a year prior to that. He told me how certain people within the organization are "ga-ga" (his words) over Todd Gurley. I asked him if Jerry Reese is one of them, and he said he wasn't sure where Reese stands but the people he knows are high on Gurley and have some influence on the draft selection. I then asked if Gurley is there at #9 and Schreff is too would the pick be Gurley? He responded by saying that if these guys had the final say then it would be Gurley hands down.
He then went on to talk about the philosophy of the organization when drafting in the 1st round and how they look for the best player, even if at times it goes against more crucial need (like OL is this year), and how he wouldn't be shocked if we heard Gurley's name being called when the Giants pick tonight.
Anyway, just wanted to pass along this little bit of info as I know Gurley's name was mentioned on here recently.
Here's hoping whomever we draft has a lengthy, impactful career with Big Blue!
We take OT Peat at #14, DE Preston at #40 and 3 players in round 3 to bring in youth to fix this mess on the lines and defense.
Just hope we get lucky today. I know the trades won't happen - but maybe at least Cleveland will get edgy and offer #12, 3rd round and maybe a safety we can start for our #9! Gotta dream!!!
Actually, you better be reading his medical records.
If John Mara keeps the system the same way that is father did, then Reese is the final say. He might go to Mara for input, and Mara might give it, but ultimately since George Young led the restructuring of the organization, it's the GM's job to make that final call. There have been several instances over the years with both Young and Accorsi that they gave their input to Wellington, and he didn't agree but he also got out of the way and let them do their job.
I would be really disappointed if we took Gurley. He's a great player, but it's too much of a risk to take a player who tore his ACL less than a year ago at #9. Mara has also said we have to win now. Taking Gurley is inconsistent with that statement.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants pick him. RB has been undervalued a bit lately, IMO, and the Giants don't shun 1st round talents (see: Wilson, David).
Everything still tells me OL is the pick. Scherff, Flowers or Peat in that order, but if we see a "surprise" tonight I'd be thrilled with Gurley.
It will be a wasted pick IMO if they select Gurley. However, if Gurley is almost as good as Peterson, it will be avery good pick indeed. Eli + Beckham + Gurley = lots of fun!
"I have him listed as a top 3 overall talent in this draft class if his knee checks out. Rare blend of strength and explosivness. Great size and power but can break the long run. He's the best RB I've seen come out of college since Adrian Peterson. Great receiver out of the backfield, a true workhorse, 3-down back. In 2014, 61.9% of his yardage was after contact, rarely fumbles."
We take OT Peat at #14, DE Preston at #40 and 3 players in round 3 to bring in youth to fix this mess on the lines and defense.
Just hope we get lucky today. I know the trades won't happen - but maybe at least Cleveland will get edgy and offer #12, 3rd round and maybe a safety we can start for our #9! Gotta dream!!!
I like it
very interesting, Gurley came off very intelligent and a student of the game..
Gurley also said that the goal is to be ready for preseason, there is no talk of taking the year off, he siad he plans to be ready to go for training camp..
Probably not because those Cowboy teams had outstanding OL's and we don't.
Do the Giants have the best OL of the decade like that Dallas team did? I don't see NFL Films making a feature show about this OL anytime soon.
Probably not because those Cowboy teams had outstanding OL's and we don't.
One can always pretend.
I'm #TeamScherff and pretty much always have been but I'm also for swinging for the fences if you think it's the right move.
Sack Eli
He is the Odell Beckham of this draft IMO. A guy that has a legit shot to be the best player at his position in the entire NFL. You can't say that about any other player in this draft.
I think sometimes people forget it is a 7 round draft...
Gurley may end up being the best player in this draft, if Giants feel his knee checks out then it is hard to argue..
Question then becomes do they get rid of Jennings?
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Gurley, Vareen & Beckham onfield?
Sack Eli
Overblown.
Take Gurley and then take Tomlinson (a pretty close second t0 Scherff IMO at OG) at 40.
You are in for a treat!! The guy is the real deal. He is a complete fucking stud that can do everything.
People are ok with a WR at 9, but not a RB? Makes no sense to me as we are in a way better situation at WR then RB. We don't have a RB on our roster who has ever had more then 800 rushing yards, 500 receiving yards or 7 total TDs in a season.
Gurley is a guy who can run for 1300 yards, have 400 receiving yards & 15 TDs.
There ARE more than just one pick in the draft. And by all accounts, very good OL will be available in the 2nd.
This has been explained a million times. Why do people keep acting as if this roster is final after the 1st round?
Although, I would be excited with that pick.
2. The reason why the Giants haven't been able to run for the last how many years is because our oline has stunk. You need to repair that before you draft a running back. We do not have a right tackle for this season!!!
Gurley would be the dumbest pick we could make.
2. Laken Tomlinson/Sambrailo
3. Jaquiski Tartt/Adrian Amos
4. Trey Flowers/Anthony Chickillo
2. The reason why the Giants haven't been able to run for the last how many years is because our oline has stunk. You need to repair that before you draft a running back. We do not have a right tackle for this season!!!
Gurley would be the dumbest pick we could make.
Gurley with one of the plug and play OL @ 40 would work quite fine actually.
You are getting arguably the top playmaker in the draft (according to some) at 9.
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Gurley, Vareen & Beckham onfield?
Sack Eli
+1
IF the Giants still want a RB, Duke Johnson will be available later on. But the same could be said for solid OGs and WRs.
But, in pro football, a tailback tends to have a very short career, even shorter as a high-level performer. Perhaps no other position on the field absorbs the cumulative contact of a tailback. I'd be very torn to pick Gurley.
Pugh is healthy again. Then we have Richburg is back at his natural position & Schwartz to RG. That is 2 upgrades without signing or drafting a single player.
Go out & get a Safety & Guard in Rounds 2 & 3. Either Jaquiski Tartt, Randall, Amos, Tomlinson, Cann, Marpet, Sambrailo, Tre Jackson.
2. Laken Tomlinson/Sambrailo
3. Jaquiski Tartt/Adrian Amos
4. Trey Flowers/Anthony Chickillo
Slight twist:
1. Todd Gurley
2. Laken Tomlinson or if one of the plug/play first round OL fall
3. Henry Anderson/Chris Conley
4. Adrian Amos
5. Durrell Eskridge/Drummond
If he didn't have the ACL he wouldn't be available at 9 anyway.
But, in pro football, a tailback tends to have a very short career, even shorter as a high-level performer. Perhaps no other position on the field absorbs the cumulative contact of a tailback. I'd be very torn to pick Gurley.
Fairly light load in College for a feature back. Not a major injury history prior to ACL. Agreed on shelf life but if they think this is the second coming of AP you pull the trigger regardless.
JPP was pretty risky
We can embed youtube now?
Huge upgrade over, well, just about anyone.
He's a lot of the things that Andre Williams is not. At least not yet. Such as seeing that a little seam is, in fact, a hole; and the ability to cut back and accelerate through that seam into the second level.
I'm all in.
Nobody is counting Jones. He was injured in a car accident after the draft.
Sintim, Beckum, Barden, and the entire '09 draft except for Nicks and Beatty, the entire 2010 draft after JPP and Joseph, the entire 2011 draft except for Prince, and possibly the entire 2012 draft except for Randle.
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Coughlin doesn't make the picks.
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Football is won on the lines, all that talent is meaningless if our qb can't get enough time to pass and the stud rb doesn't get the holes to run through.
Sack Eli
Same old tired bullshit. The pass protection wasn't the problem last year, it was the run blocking. If you want to cite that as a reason to not draft Gurley then fine, it is a legitimate argument, but please stop spouting the same nonsense.
"Georgia's Todd Gurley No. 1 player on one team's board".
Nothing groundbreaking, but interesting nevertheless.
Link - ( New Window )
Out of our top 3 RBs on the roster none of them has ever had more then 780 yards rushing, 460 yards receiving or 7 total TDs in a season. Gurley has potential to gain somewhere between 1500-1800 yards & score 10+ TDs.
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All picks are risks. Was Chad Jones a risky pick?
Nobody is counting Jones. He was injured in a car accident after the draft.
Sintim, Beckum, Barden, and the entire '09 draft except for Nicks and Beatty, the entire 2010 draft after JPP and Joseph, the entire 2011 draft except for Prince, and possibly the entire 2012 draft except for Randle.
Shit happens. BBI doesn't seem to get that. No GM hits 100%.
I'm in the Flowers camp, but if Gurley is an AP type prospect, count me in.
But would you really be shocked if Reese took Gurley?
Also, you could make a strong argument that Gurley is a top 5 player in this draft.
But would you really be shocked if Reese took Gurley?
Also, you could make a strong argument that Gurley is a top 5 player in this draft.
Exactly. This could be the greatest test of whether Reese opts for BPA over need. I think a lot of teams might have a top 5 grade for that guy. It's not nuts to think the Giants might be one of them. And if a top 5 guy falls to 9 you might choose to address your OL needs in Round 2.
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are some signs here pointing to Gurley...
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Football is won on the lines, all that talent is meaningless if our qb can't get enough time to pass and the stud rb doesn't get the holes to run through.
Then how did Odell Beckham have a record setting rookie year?
Beer Man : 2:19 pm : link : reply
very high on Gurley, but it seems Jerry (and maybe TC) generally have looked to day-2 or 3 for RBs (exception being Wilson)
Then again, the Giants haven't been near a position to draft a RB of this level.
A number of months ago, I think during the football season last year, I saw a piece on Gurley on CBS Sunday Morning about Gurley being the only man on a Women's book club. He joined the club because he had committed himself to improve his reading skills. If I remember correctly, he was near illiterate when he got to college, and made the active decision to work on his reading and writing skills at the same time as his physical football skills. He's a good kid, who wants to grow his mind along with his body. I like that self-awareness that he has, which is a good sign of strong character and commitment.
Then how did Odell Beckham have a record setting rookie year?
Part skill, part Eli, and part because our pass blocking was a lot better than what some posters seem to remember.
we clearly have an okay oline...it def improved last season as eli was around 9th moist protected QB i think. and our offense didnt really sputter at all...running game struggled at times yes but lack of talent maybe? i wouldnt mind a skill position ie cooper or gurley or ANYWHERE on defense except CB...i want beasley he is my first choice but people act as if we have nobody on the oline...it isnt as grim as some people think
I'm not asking for 12 years from Gurley. I just want him to be healthy and play well for the remainder of Eli's prime. That would give this team a Franchise QB, Franchise WR, and Franchise RB. Draft OL in the 2nd and keep building that line up and you have a potentially scary offense.
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In comment 12258451 Eric from BBI said:
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are some signs here pointing to Gurley...
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Football is won on the lines, all that talent is meaningless if our qb can't get enough time to pass and the stud rb doesn't get the holes to run through.
Then how did Odell Beckham have a record setting rookie year?
What was our record the last two years? Better yet, what was our record against playoff teams the last two years??
But would you really be shocked if Reese took Gurley?
Also, you could make a strong argument that Gurley is a top 5 player in this draft.
No I wouldn't be surprised but I won't like it. The ACL scares me and I like A. Williams. And I would like to think that intelligent people learn from mistakes. Taking injured players with the 9th overall pick is fraught with danger, especially for a team that has led the league in nothing except for players on IR in recent years. Reese should know better.
we clearly have an okay oline...it def improved last season as eli was around 9th moist protected QB i think. and our offense didnt really sputter at all...running game struggled at times yes but lack of talent maybe? i wouldnt mind a skill position ie cooper or gurley or ANYWHERE on defense except CB...i want beasley he is my first choice but people act as if we have nobody on the oline...it isnt as grim as some people think
Was the Jacksonville game at the beginning of the year or at the end of the year?
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arcarsenal : 2:20 pm : link : reply
Then how did Odell Beckham have a record setting rookie year?
Part skill, part Eli, and part because our pass blocking was a lot better than what some posters seem to remember.
Right, which is basically my point.. despite so many believing our line is just in pitiful shape, Beckham lit up the league last year anyway.
Special talents like these are going to make plays regardless. Like I said before, my only reservation about Todd Gurley is his knee. Outside of that, I would have zero issue taking him at 9.
Just last year people killed the OBJ pick because we passed on OL in the 1st round.. particularly Martin. Despite Martin turning out to be very good, would anyone do it differently if they had a do-over? Of course not. Every single person would still take Beckham.
we clearly have an okay oline...it def improved last season as eli was around 9th moist protected QB i think. and our offense didnt really sputter at all...running game struggled at times yes but lack of talent maybe? i wouldnt mind a skill position ie cooper or gurley or ANYWHERE on defense except CB...i want beasley he is my first choice but people act as if we have nobody on the oline...it isnt as grim as some people think
They either don't watch it, don't understand it, or have short memories. How else could a person watch last season and come away with the notion that the pass protection was bad? Thet get the idea in their heads and won't let it go.
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In comment 12258459 Essex said:
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In comment 12258451 Eric from BBI said:
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are some signs here pointing to Gurley...
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Football is won on the lines, all that talent is meaningless if our qb can't get enough time to pass and the stud rb doesn't get the holes to run through.
Then how did Odell Beckham have a record setting rookie year?
What was our record the last two years? Better yet, what was our record against playoff teams the last two years??
And this directly correlates to the OL why exactly? It doesn't.
Strictly an OG but perhaps the top OG in this draft. He was the only OG I beleive ranked top 10 in both run and pass block in PFF
Gurley @ 9 and then Tomlinson @40 would not be a bad start to the draft
i would be torn about this pick too,love the guts and the possible upside,and in response to some previous comments i absolutely believe a stud OL gets them extra wins as they could control the ball and hold a lead which they havent managed since spags last tenure with the team
i hope this is leverage for a trade back to gain an extra 2nd round pick to spend on either a Safety or DE plus swap firsts and still take the OL they need win-win
Link - ( New Window )
I'm not diminishing the importance of a strong OL but there's more than 1 round in the NFL draft. Picks have to be about maximizing value. The odds of getting a player as good as Gurley later in the draft are slim to none. There's a much better chance we can get a solid/good OL in the 2nd or 3rd round.
This is all likely moot because I don't see us taking Gurley but the guy is the real deal. I don't see how anyone could be angry at the selection after seeing what OBJ did for this offense last year all on his own.
Richburg at his natural position & Schwartz on the field is two upgrades already.
8-man box - throw to Beckham working 1on1.
2 safeties deep - hand to Gurley.
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A great RB can make a bad line look a lot better.
The value is too good to pass up IMO.
If Gurley was healthy, then I could live with it. Coming off an ACL, I can't see why they don't address either line first.
we clearly have an okay oline...it def improved last season as eli was around 9th moist protected QB i think. and our offense didnt really sputter at all...running game struggled at times yes but lack of talent maybe? i wouldnt mind a skill position ie cooper or gurley or ANYWHERE on defense except CB...i want beasley he is my first choice but people act as if we have nobody on the oline...it isnt as grim as some people think
GMEN, we all watch and many of us disagree with you. GMEN, we all watch and many of us disagree with you. Last year’s line play was a tale of two cities. On one hand, they did a very good job pass blocking. But on the other hand, their run blocking was horrendous. When it comes to run blocking John Jerry is about as milk toast as they come, he cannot be a starter this year. You want to extend Eli’s career, improve the run blocking so that other teams can’t load up the box to come after him. Gurley as good as he has been, is not going to improve the run blocking (and his knee is a big?)
8-man box - throw to Beckham working 1on1.
2 safeties deep - hand to Gurley.
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A great RB can make a bad line look a lot better.
The line with some health , year 2 of McAdoo's system and a plug and play guy @40 will be very good.
If Gurley was healthy, then I could live with it. Coming off an ACL, I can't see why they don't address either line first.
He alluded to our struggles in each of the last 2 seasons being because of the OL. The RB situation was pitiful in 2013 and I'd argue that had just as much to do with the complete ineptness of the offense as anything else did.
The RB situation is a lot better now than it was 2 years ago but none of these 3 guys are as talented as Todd Gurley.
And if he's not healthy, they wouldn't consider him. I'm sure they'd do their diligence in that regard.
I think if they take an OL at #9, that pick has to be an OT and possible future LT. That player to me is Flowers.
If not, draft the G or someone like Donovan Smith at #40.
In the second round, they could pick a Tomlinson or one of the many other good guard prospects. They could even take a Cedric Ogbuehi and have Jerry hold the fort until he's better. A guy like Donovan Smith should be there (prob a reach at 40 though).
It's ridiculous to think they can't be better on the line unless they pick an OL in round 1.
And if you are hell bent for shoring up the trenches you ought to look at the horrible job the Giants did at stopping the run first.
2) Some of you are acting like you have access to Gurley's medical records. The guys that are actually connected to pro teams are all saying the knee looks fine and is ahead of schedule
3) The OL or bust crowd are the same morons killing the team for taking some WR last year over Martin.
So, if Gurley were 100% healthy, and the knee thing never happened, Gurley would be right there with Cooper/Williams/White. And, if the medical people are telling you that the knee is good, then you've got to put him in with Cooper/Williams/White.
And there's your playmaking 1st round draft pick - Todd Gurley. It is not at all far-fetched, it is very real.
Good OL will be available in Round 2.
Safety Round 3.
I would be fine with Gurley although I'm intrigued (maybe obsessed) with the possibility of trading up for Williams.
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2015 has already been improved with Williams having a full year under his belt, Vereen signing here and Jennings hopefully healthy and staying that way with a reduced workload. The biggest problem in the run game last year was that the middle of the OL sucked, especially Walton
If Gurley was healthy, then I could live with it. Coming off an ACL, I can't see why they don't address either line first.
He alluded to our struggles in each of the last 2 seasons being because of the OL. The RB situation was pitiful in 2013 and I'd argue that had just as much to do with the complete ineptness of the offense as anything else did.
The RB situation is a lot better now than it was 2 years ago but none of these 3 guys are as talented as Todd Gurley.
And if he's not healthy, they wouldn't consider him. I'm sure they'd do their diligence in that regard.
I am sure Gurley is healthy in terms of being ready for camp or he wouldn't be talked about at 9. However, look at the odds of a person tearing a second ACL after tearing the first compared to a guy who never tore one before. It is astronomically different.
when jennings was healthy he was one of the leading rushers in the NFL.
Our O-Line has already significantly improved with Schwartz in for Jerry + year 2 Richburg replacing Walton. we will add another piece in round 2 or 3, probably Marpet
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In comment 12258554 Victor in CT said:
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2015 has already been improved with Williams having a full year under his belt, Vereen signing here and Jennings hopefully healthy and staying that way with a reduced workload. The biggest problem in the run game last year was that the middle of the OL sucked, especially Walton
If Gurley was healthy, then I could live with it. Coming off an ACL, I can't see why they don't address either line first.
He alluded to our struggles in each of the last 2 seasons being because of the OL. The RB situation was pitiful in 2013 and I'd argue that had just as much to do with the complete ineptness of the offense as anything else did.
The RB situation is a lot better now than it was 2 years ago but none of these 3 guys are as talented as Todd Gurley.
And if he's not healthy, they wouldn't consider him. I'm sure they'd do their diligence in that regard.
I am sure Gurley is healthy in terms of being ready for camp or he wouldn't be talked about at 9. However, look at the odds of a person tearing a second ACL after tearing the first compared to a guy who never tore one before. It is astronomically different.
Yep
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In comment 12258554 Victor in CT said:
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2015 has already been improved with Williams having a full year under his belt, Vereen signing here and Jennings hopefully healthy and staying that way with a reduced workload. The biggest problem in the run game last year was that the middle of the OL sucked, especially Walton
If Gurley was healthy, then I could live with it. Coming off an ACL, I can't see why they don't address either line first.
He alluded to our struggles in each of the last 2 seasons being because of the OL. The RB situation was pitiful in 2013 and I'd argue that had just as much to do with the complete ineptness of the offense as anything else did.
The RB situation is a lot better now than it was 2 years ago but none of these 3 guys are as talented as Todd Gurley.
And if he's not healthy, they wouldn't consider him. I'm sure they'd do their diligence in that regard.
I am sure Gurley is healthy in terms of being ready for camp or he wouldn't be talked about at 9. However, look at the odds of a person tearing a second ACL after tearing the first compared to a guy who never tore one before. It is astronomically different.
I don't have concrete, medically accurate statistics on exactly what those odds are but I'd have to believe for Gurley to be a consideration, they aren't necessarily as "astronomical" as you might assume or think.
Also, each player is different. It's impossible to know exactly what a particular players chances are. And besides, it's football. Anyone can pop an ACL or get hurt on any given play.
- Adding a tremendous young RB talent won't help
Our OL stunk last year in the running game, but our RBs were awful at creating something out of nothing. Andre Williams is a Brandon Jacobs-type who is dependent on the OL to give him holes that he can power his way through. But he needs holes. Jennings is a little more shifty than Williams but he's kind of a JAG. Solid veteran but nothing special. Vereen brings something else to the table, but he's not a top runner.
Adding a RB who has power and vision and can create without having big holes would absolutely have a positive impact on this running game.
And we can still draft OL in the 2nd or 3rd. Scherff/Duke vs. Gurley/Tomlinson... that's a toss up depending on your feelings on those prospects. I'd personally be more excited with Gurley/Tomlinson.
when jennings was healthy he was one of the leading rushers in the NFL.
Our O-Line has already significantly improved with Schwartz in for Jerry + year 2 Richburg replacing Walton. we will add another piece in round 2 or 3, probably Marpet
RBs fully recover from ACLs now more than ever. He had pretty light wear in College too.
Chew on this for a moment:
1. Gurley (top offensive play-maker in draft)
2. Tomlinson or if one of Erving/Donovan Smith/Cedric Ogbeuhi/Fisher drop or are highly graded
3. Henry Anderson/Chris Conley(top CPM for WR in draft)/Justin Hardy
4. Adrian Amos
5. Eskridge/Drummond
That would make more sense to me. Teams think we want Scherff, Flowers, Peat as that is what people who are supposed to have inside info are saying. So they take the guy or other teams move in front of us to take them. Letting the player we want fall right into our laps.
Surgeon on ACL injuries - ( New Window )
Not when the comps are AP.
I didn't write that, Essex did.
No sweat Big Rick. All these replies get confusing after a while.
Yes, thank you x 10.
It will be a facepalm of epic proportions if we draft this guy. If there is one position where we are set, it is RB. No superstars there, but 3 very capable backs. I have to believe at #9, there will be a high quality player at an area of greater need.
If they feel Gurley is that caliber player, then how could you complain?
Study of reinjuring and ACL - ( New Window )
Really dude?
B) it has the word athlete
C) it has ACL
The Giants would be a great landing spot for him. He would hardly ever face 8 in the box, and he would be with a trio of RBs, which he would need at first, given his recovery from knee surgery. Have to keep the carries manageable.
I want the Giants to fix the OL too, but if Scherrf is gone at #9 and Gurley is there, you can't blame the Giants if the take a RB.
If anyone missed it, Bill Polian had an excellent interview with Gurley, The young man came away as very football savy and cleary spends time watching tape.
None of the RBs on our roster have ever had over 780 rushing yards, 460 receiving yards or 7 TDs in a season. That's a huge problem. If you can go out & get a guy that has potential to have 2,000 total yards & 10-15 TDs a year you take him.
But if you want to ignore evidence both anecdotal (Hixon, T2, Bradford, Casey Hampton, etc) and statistical, be my guest.
How has Derrick Rose been since he tore his ACL? But he is a basketball player.
I am glad you are not my doctor.
Really dude?
Female athletes tear their ACLs at a far greater frequency than male athletes. That's where I would start the study.
But if you want to ignore evidence both anecdotal (Hixon, T2, Bradford, Casey Hampton, etc) and statistical, be my guest.
How has Derrick Rose been since he tore his ACL? But he is a basketball player.
I am glad you are not my doctor.
How bout' the players who never re-torn their ACL? You listed 4 NFL players who have re-torn + and NBA player.
What do you expect us to do with that?
I wouldn't draft the ninth pick with him. And, if it was insignificant, how come he is not going third then?
I think this is what you are getting at from the article:
"And the odds of tearing a reconstructed ACL are just 2 percent, said orthopedic surgeon Harlan Selesnick, the Miami Heat’s team physician.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article19553817.html#storylink=cpy"
2% is far higher than the likelihood of initially tearing the ACL, so that's where the increased risk comes in. Still 2% is a pretty small risk. Advances in the angle of the graft, using autologous prp or stem cells as adjuvants also make the repair stronger. Of course the knee is never the same...
I went to UM, live/work about 20 mins. from campus which is right next to Salesnick's practice and have friends who are close to Salesnick. He is ridiculously highly respected down here and has the reputation as "the guy" to go to for knee surgeries down here. (Not that we don't have other capable orthos down here, that's just his reputation).
Where in Fla. are you, btw?
Hh,
- first, you're baiting, because you know there is no mathematical certainty to a question youo pose as if there were,
- second, at #9, it comes down to differences among Scherff (if he's there), Flowers, or Peat, three guys who were heavily scouted by us and for whom the scouts/FO have a strong feel and reasonable certainty that they can slide in and play, either G or RT, THIS YEAR
- third, at #40, yes, the draft is said to be deep at OL, ok; but we haven't done the same work on Erving (the guy I would want if we weren't going OL at 9), Tomlinson, Fisher, Marpet, etc. The term "plug in" has been thrown around a lot on these threads by certain posters who feel strongly that there is greater value at #9 at positions other than OL, but is it true? Are their experience and skill sets and talent really the functional equivalent of Scherff et. al, minus maybe a small dropoff? What's the level of conviction on this? Have we heard plug-and-play on these guys from the scouts? You mean like Sintim and Austin were on d (both second rounders, but lower)?
And we're talking 2015, this year: so, while your question is straightforward and simple, the answers are not. Maybe Gurley's talent and its gap between him and the alternatives is so great, in the minds of the scouts and GM, that you take the risk that the answer to your question at #40 is no. I certainly don't know the answer to that.
That actually depends. Sometimes they take a part of another tendon in your body, other times they use a ligament from a cadaver.
http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/apr12/cover1.asp
It's still not as stable. It's a solder, not a weld.
Plus the scar tissue issues that can come up that are a complication of any surgery, especially knee surgeries.
It's still a risk. And if you do an autograft, you have a secondary injury/surgical site.
[quote] But I thought if we were to discuss the topic we should use the only study that is out there for the long term. Female athletes apparently tear it more often, but it is still useful. Plus, we have seen anecdotally about athletes having tons of issues after ACLS with there knee and other parts of their leg.
/quote]
Hamstring tears are very common after acl repairs, especially when the autograft comes from the hamstring tendon.
This article touches on it:
http://www.regenexx.com/2014/03/hamstrings-acl-surgery-complications/
Lol, I'm being totally objective.
I'm only pointing out facts. Some of which weigh in favor of taking Gurley, despite the ACL repair. And some of which don't.
As a veteran of two ACL surgeries, I'm sure you understand the situation from a unique perspective.
Some guys bounce back from a repair and they are 99.9% of what they were. Other guys never even approach 50%.
Also remember at what stage he is in. It's not as if he had an acl repair, "fully" recovered and played another season. He's still recovering from the surgery. No one has any idea how he will recover or what he will be able to do.
I understand the concern. But if the Drs say he's ok..They I'm fine with picking him.
We finally draft within the top 10 and Gurley is getting very little respect from the so-called draftniks and draft experts re: Giants.
How foolish. Gurley is a once-in-every five or ten year talent.
To even question this pick if he is there at #9, is nonsense. He should be the pick at #9 without any hesitation (if JR and the Giants brass have any clue).
Draft Gurley and hit two consecutive HRs (Beckham in 2014; Gurley in 2015).
I agree totally with you. Plus, Gurley can not only help the offense, but he can help keep our lousy "D" off the field with time of possession.
Draft your OLman in Rds. 2 or 3; there will be several who are not too far down the list in talent from Sherff and Peat.
GURLEY IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which will mean an entire transition in the organization over the next two years!!!!!!!!!!!
(1) Junior entry - young.
(2) Highly-regarded play-maker.
Reese loves those kind of guys.
Also, if you team him with Beckham, Cruz, Donnell, Randle, that's pretty scary.
Also, I just found all the Scherff talk to be too blatant for an organization that is known for keeping things close to the vest. Now, I wouldn't be disappointed if Scherff ended up as the pick, but Gurley strikes me as a Reese-type move. He's talked about how much better the offense would've been had David Wilson stayed healthy, but if Gurley's medical checks out, you're getting a considerably better back than DW.
Quote:
Sounds like there are those in the ranks that are
Beer Man : 2:19 pm : link : reply
very high on Gurley, but it seems Jerry (and maybe TC) generally have looked to day-2 or 3 for RBs (exception being Wilson)
Then again, the Giants haven't been near a position to draft a RB of this level.
Filthy, before the injury I would have agreed with you. After the injury there is a lot of uncertainty. Jerry has to be concerned if he picks him and he is not the same player or never comes back, that his job will be in jeopardy (and I bet there will be more than a few on BBI calling for his head, some of them who have argued passionately for Gurley to be the pick)
.....those are from the previous, can't miss, sure hall-of-famer Trent Richardson. So seriously, all these "can't miss, no brainer" type posts have just got to stop. IMO no RB is worth a top 10 pick in today's NFL.
Quote:
...as compact and coiled an athlete as the position has seen since Adrian Peterson.
Quote:
...has a strong core that he uses to break arm tackles and get physical leverage under blitzers in pass protection. He is a true three-down back who can be effective on screens.
Quote:
...elite combination of strength and speed. He gets yards after contact from his strength, and is fast enough to break off long touchdowns on a carry or reception. He has the rare combination to ram through linebackers and run away from defensive backs.
.....those are from the previous, can't miss, sure hall-of-famer Trent Richardson. So seriously, all these "can't miss, no brainer" type posts have just got to stop. IMO no RB is worth a top 10 pick in today's NFL.
We can play that game with any position in the NFL. You using Richardson is as bad as those guys that claim Scherff won't be any good because of other Iowa OL in the past have sucked. It's just stupid. Different players.
I understand the concern. But if the Drs say he's ok..They I'm fine with picking him.
I agree it's definitely not what it used to be. After posting, I read a recent article where it says he's already doing change of direction at speed and resistance training at speed, and has no recurrent swelling. He's far past the worst, if that's the case. Plus he's still very young, so that helps him.
If that's the case, and there is a steep drop-off between Gurley and next BPA, I guess I'm ok with it, assuming they draft another o-lineman in round 2, or have some plan to get someone else so Jerry is not a penciled-in starter.
This is why I can't believe they didn't sign another at least middle-of-the-road lineman in FA, though. We need a RT or RG (depending on where they put Pugh) b/c Jerry isn't starting quality.
It would massively suck to draft this guy, and watch our backs tackled in the backfield for 2 yard losses repeatedly, again.
Ah, gotcha, ok. I thought you might have been in Miami b/c of the Dolphins article.
Giants 101 7m
RT @McShay13: Three teams I’m hearing in Top-10 considering RB Todd Gurley
We need another impact player on offense especially for the running game. I'd love to see a bad ass take no prisoner RB on this team again. It's been ages...
He's a workhorse.