People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I don't know if you read my post before the draft stating I think the Giants prefer Flowers over Scherff. Reese likes getting those very young players when he can and Flowers is a couple of years younger then Sccherff. Also, and this may or may not be true of Scherff,I have a concern for picking Iowa lineman. There ALWAYS seems to pick a top lineman coming out of Iowa. Most of them never panned out to be top lineman. Some good,but not for 1st rounders. Why is that? I believe that the Iowa lineman are getting great coaching from Ferentz,who was an offensive line coach in the NFL and his players come into the league maxed out potentially. There is not question here who has the higher upside
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
how anyone can be a) surprised or b) dissapointed with this pick. He has everything you look for in a Reese first round pick (Junior entry with extreme athleticism and major upside) and fills a massive need. He not only upgrades our right tackle position but guard as well as Pugh will likely kick inside to left guard.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
I didn't realize that Sy'56 has a 2nd round grade on Flowers
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
what I posted last night? What I stated is on point. Doesn't make it a bad pick. I think they look at bookending him in his first year depending on offseason and camp with the idea that ultimately he's a T. And possibly Beattys replacement.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I suspect that they actually want to move Pugh inside permanently to guard. So if that's the case I can't imagine they'd delay it a year and then flip Flowers and Pugh down the road.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
But I think he will take a while to develop. Supposedly very strong, good feet, aggressive. However they want him at one of the tackle positions and you need good hands and from the things I have read and heard from the "experts" has major technique issues. He got away in college with stuff due to size and strength that will cost him in NFL. Needs to be very strong with hands and have a good punch and he hasn't shown that. Giants OL coaching is solid so hopefully he comes around quickly but for a #9 pick I expect him to start. This front office won't have another draft if he fails.
i don't doubt that ultimately Flowers is a T. However, we'd be remiss if we didn't recall how the Cowboys deployed Martin in his rookie year. And they weren't exactly loaded at either T spot. Give me that kind of performance from a rookie all day long.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I think most people thought Martin's best position was guard coming out of the draft even long term. Otherwise he goes in the top 5 if most thought he was a tackle.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
often - so this pick can't be evaluated like other first round picks ... it has to be evaluated with other times the Giants picked in the top ten ... and all I care about is that Flowers ends up having the impact upon games that Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks and Eli Manning have had.
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.
i don't doubt that ultimately Flowers is a T. However, we'd be remiss if we didn't recall how the Cowboys deployed Martin in his rookie year. And they weren't exactly loaded at either T spot. Give me that kind of performance from a rookie all day long.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
Coughlin called him a tackle and mentioned nothing about guard. How many good near six seven guards are there anyway? And he has a problem playing low too. I know Pugh is a Syracuse guy, but the writing is on the wall for him to move inside.
I am guilty of falling in love with "sexy" picks, and I LOVE Shelton. So when I heard Flowers called, I was a little bummed. But the more I read about him, the more excited I get. His potential seems as massive as his frame, he is young and based on reports seems very coach-able.
Most of the negative reviews of the pick also make me feel good about it, because they seem to be super nit picky or fixable. Can't wait to see what he can do!
I'm wondering how people even know what the pick is immediately after it has happened.
Frankly, anyone calling it a great pick or a shitty one is just like everyone else in making a knee-jerk reaction.
Radar, my "MO" is not to be angry, it is to shit on a few things:
1) Those who act as if they know more than people making informed decisions
2) Those who question the motivation or "toughness" of players
3) Those who jump to conclusions immediately (Anyone remember the shit Odell got in the early part of last year for being a "pussy")?
Since you fit all those categories as a smarmy contrarian, you seem to take a heap of shit. Look around, it isn't just me who realizes what an ignorant douche you are.
the fact that Coughlin calls him a tackle in the media means absolutely nothing. The most likely scenario is that he's lighting a fire under Pugh's ass that he's got competition and he'd better stay healthy and play like a stud. Flowers has a few holes that can't be denied. Give him a year to get into a professional S&C program, take care of his nutrition and realize he's got a lot of growth in front of him both on and off the field.
To pencil anyone in anywhere at this point is simply speculation. And in essence, wild speculation because we're just fans.
the video you posted - as an OL coach i will tell you that Flowers needs to get his feet under him at the second level. This is an issue for him. He doesn't break down at all and typically looks for the big block rather than the effective one. In this case he got the job done but technically-speaking it was not good.
is his age and maturity. Not much of a body of work in college...hopefully is he is not mismanaged from a development perspective like all of the other oline guys we have drafted recently.
As a true freshman at the University of Miami in 2012, Flowers played in all 12 games at right tackle, making four starts.[3][4] As a sophomore in 2013, he started all 12 games at left tackle.[5] He returned as the starting left tackle in 2014. Body of Work - ( New Window )
...when I read some of the things you put out there on BBI (which admittedly ain't very often), I am left wondering why you haven't been banned from this site years ago.
But here's a novel idea. Make your point and leave out all the scatological abusive language... all it does is obscure the points you're trying to make.
I'm no good at fishing stuff out of the archive. For example, how do you find Sy'56's OT 2015 NFL Draft review? I couldn't do it. Thanks.
I stumbled upon UKGiantsFan's Ereck Flowers review and figured I should re-post it here:
The big, dynamic RT prospects Ereck Flowers, Miami FL (66 1/4, 329lbs, 34 1/2 arms, 5.31 speed, 37 BP reps).
Three year starter (first year at RT, last two at LT). True junior entry and only 21 years old. Has prototypical height and length (83 1/4 wingspan). Powerful, punishing blocker who looks every bit a RT physically and is far faster than he looks (runs a 1.78 over first 10 yards which ranks in the top 5 amongst all OLs). Strong and mean - a real finisher who will pound on his opponent. Scheme diverse - can power a running game in line and also make blocks out wide in the open field. Relies on his power in pass protection but got abused by the quickness of Virginias Eli Harold and bull-rushed to the ground by Nebraskas 235lb Randy Gregory. His kick step is just plain ugly so when hes late off the ball hes toast on the edge (as was the case v Gregory who also beat him for a gimme sack) and he struggles to redirect to inside moves. Doesnt react quickly to stunts. Does some grabbing (6 holding penalties in two years). Had surgery during the 14 season on a torn meniscus and missed a game but returned to full health thereafter. Some suggestion that hed be a better Guard in a power blocking scheme but Im not of that opinion - I think hes an RT only. The Giants sent a large contingent to his Pro Day (Reese, Ross and Exec. Scout Joe Collins) so may well have an interest in him. Has a nice upside if his footwork and balance issues are deemed correctable. Will probably be over-drafted in the top 25 but he ranks as no more than a top 50 pick in my view.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
Quote:
In comment 12260045 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Pugh to guard.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
I guess Twitter does have its good points
Link - ( New Window )
We should be good to go now for a while. Young talented unit/core.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Ereck Flowers: 5.33 40 (5.29 best), 4.91 20, 34 reps of 225, 475 squat, 286 power clean, 440 bench press, 26.5 vertical
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
Denzel Perryman: 4.71 40 (4.65 best), 4.51 20, 33 reps of 225, 605 squat, 342 power clean, 435 bench press, 31 vertical
Clive Walford: 4.89 40 (4.83 best), 4.53 20, 22 reps of 225, 405 squat, 257 power clean, 350 bench press, 33 vertical
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
Quote:
Pugh to guard.
No, he would be replacing John Jerry.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
Exactly.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Here we go.
Because we could draft Jesus Christ and 80% of BBI would bitch about it.
That's his MO here.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
Coughlin called him a tackle and mentioned nothing about guard. How many good near six seven guards are there anyway? And he has a problem playing low too. I know Pugh is a Syracuse guy, but the writing is on the wall for him to move inside.
Most of the negative reviews of the pick also make me feel good about it, because they seem to be super nit picky or fixable. Can't wait to see what he can do!
Frankly, anyone calling it a great pick or a shitty one is just like everyone else in making a knee-jerk reaction.
Radar, my "MO" is not to be angry, it is to shit on a few things:
1) Those who act as if they know more than people making informed decisions
2) Those who question the motivation or "toughness" of players
3) Those who jump to conclusions immediately (Anyone remember the shit Odell got in the early part of last year for being a "pussy")?
Since you fit all those categories as a smarmy contrarian, you seem to take a heap of shit. Look around, it isn't just me who realizes what an ignorant douche you are.
To pencil anyone in anywhere at this point is simply speculation. And in essence, wild speculation because we're just fans.
Big, strong, and nasty.
Schwartz is 6-6 340
Flowers is 6-6 330
It will be time to make a yard when needed
I just enjoyed seeing him clobber someone.
Love it.
As a true freshman at the University of Miami in 2012, Flowers played in all 12 games at right tackle, making four starts.[3][4] As a sophomore in 2013, he started all 12 games at left tackle.[5] He returned as the starting left tackle in 2014.
Body of Work - ( New Window )
Also nice to have an OT who won't get overpowered.
...when I read some of the things you put out there on BBI (which admittedly ain't very often), I am left wondering why you haven't been banned from this site years ago.
But here's a novel idea. Make your point and leave out all the scatological abusive language... all it does is obscure the points you're trying to make.
I stumbled upon UKGiantsFan's Ereck Flowers review and figured I should re-post it here:
The big, dynamic RT prospects
Ereck Flowers, Miami FL (66 1/4, 329lbs, 34 1/2 arms, 5.31 speed, 37 BP reps).
Three year starter (first year at RT, last two at LT). True junior entry and only 21 years old. Has prototypical height and length (83 1/4 wingspan). Powerful, punishing blocker who looks every bit a RT physically and is far faster than he looks (runs a 1.78 over first 10 yards which ranks in the top 5 amongst all OLs). Strong and mean - a real finisher who will pound on his opponent. Scheme diverse - can power a running game in line and also make blocks out wide in the open field. Relies on his power in pass protection but got abused by the quickness of Virginias Eli Harold and bull-rushed to the ground by Nebraskas 235lb Randy Gregory. His kick step is just plain ugly so when hes late off the ball hes toast on the edge (as was the case v Gregory who also beat him for a gimme sack) and he struggles to redirect to inside moves. Doesnt react quickly to stunts. Does some grabbing (6 holding penalties in two years). Had surgery during the 14 season on a torn meniscus and missed a game but returned to full health thereafter. Some suggestion that hed be a better Guard in a power blocking scheme but Im not of that opinion - I think hes an RT only. The Giants sent a large contingent to his Pro Day (Reese, Ross and Exec. Scout Joe Collins) so may well have an interest in him. Has a nice upside if his footwork and balance issues are deemed correctable. Will probably be over-drafted in the top 25 but he ranks as no more than a top 50 pick in my view.
"Ereck Flowers' father, Everald, raises son on his own to become Giants' first-round draft pick
When his son was just 6 years old, Everald Flowers mission became clear under the saddest of circumstances.
He had a plan for his life back then, one that include marrying his love, Tanya Stokes, and raising their child together.
It wasnt to be.
Tanya was diagnosed with cancer and died a few months later."
Link - ( New Window )