but the QB's going off the board 1 and 2 probably made that more difficult to do with many teams.
I don't know a lot about college football so I can't comment on Flowers. But I know I did want to go OL, I just wished we could've moved down a few spots and picked up a 2nd rounder in the process.
What's this guy's deal?
I like the pick, Peat vs. Flowers will be interesting
Nastiest lineman in the draft. His footwork needs work but he didn't allow a sack all season because of his immense strength. Very coachable and will get better. Only 20 years old and the arrow is pointing up. He could be the best tackle in this draft in a few years but in the meantime, put him at left guard and watch him destroy lineman. Very happy with this pick and glad Scherff was already off the board.
not sexy and you have to wonder why we refuse to trade down.
Maybe other years there is a refusal, but no one is trading up/down this year to any significant degree. The talent/value isn't there (even with a guy like Williams, who people think fell, but, in reality, already has had labrum tears on both shoulders) to merit it.
not sexy and you have to wonder why we refuse to trade down.
There was a reasonable offer?
well i'm sure we'll never find out. My point is unless they feel Flowers is the BPA they have to cultivate options to trade down. That they had their pick in right away might inform us regarding how they feel about him.
draft. If he can't play LT at some point it will be a bad pick. Watched a lot of UM here in FL and he was never a huge standout player and played on mediocre teams. 9th pick should not be a project.
Would you be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this draft to move up a few spots with the guys that are left on the board? I wouldn't want the Giants to do it, maybe there just weren't any takers given the sparsity of blue chip prospects in this one.
Would you be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this draft to move up a few spots with the guys that are left on the board? I wouldn't want the Giants to do it, maybe there just weren't any takers given the sparsity of blue chip prospects in this one.
The only possible trade I could see was with the Saints but only if Beasley was on the board. He wasn't.
"Ughh could have picked up a 3rd and still gotten him at 14...". People suck.
Why does that statement mean people suck? He seems like an over draft and a lot of analysts are calling him that.
Because the trade down comments are nauseating. It's so tiresome to read on every thread. Is as if the Giants had 7 different offers and chose not to just to make fans upset. ID love to trade down, pick up and extra pick, and still get my guy, but it's not madden.
to the Rams at #10. The damn Giants couldn't get an Offensive lineman in round 2. I would not be surprised if Gurley is a great runner in this league. damn!
RE: All the 'trade down' people ask yourselves this
Would you be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this draft to move up a few spots with the guys that are left on the board? I wouldn't want the Giants to do it, maybe there just weren't any takers given the sparsity of blue chip prospects in this one.
he doesn't look very quick or nimble playing off the moves of the DE/DT. Obviously, he's a big man, and looks better suited to the running game than PP. Have you seen a lot of film on him
Day 1 starter at RT... kid is a beast and helps fix one of our biggest needs. Hopefully the same people that arent happy with this pick werent happy with OBJ
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
wanted Gurley but maybe I won't have to hear how Eli can not throw from his back. Coughlin calls him an aircraft carrier , strongest guy in the draft, tough guy, quiet guy. You don't draft a guy at 9 not to be a factor
Very good pick. We needed an offensive lineman. it was ALWAYS going to be either Scherff,Peat or Flowers. Scherff was gone and the Giants went with THEIR next rated o-lineman. Flowers is very young,huge,strong,and plays nasty. He kept Seatrel Henderson,who started as a rookie for the Bills this past season,on the right side because he couldn't beat out Flowers on the left.Beasley and Shelton were bad fits.
Last year, you had posters who thought that you could get another
the Giants pretty much telegraphed that they were going to go OL this year. If Flowers is green, but talented, remember that the Giants have a history of taking guys high, who aren't quite ready to settle in their main position, and slot them in at guard and let them learn on the field until they can shift over. They did it with Westburg last year, Brian Williams years ago, and Jumbo Elliott and Eric Moore both played at guard before they shifted out.
Flowers can get playing time at guard in the place for where they had John Jerry and you upgrade the talent immediately. And let's face it, I'm not sure the Giants are completely sold on Beatty, who has regressed since he got his extension. Flowers could figure at left tackle in Beatty's place within a year.
they needed to get some help badly on the OL. Gurley might have been a sexier pick.. and I wouldnt have been mad at it.. but they needed to fix the OL more than anything..
BBI cant keep talking about how bad the running game is and keeping Eli upright and protected.. and then cry when they actually take an OL..
Flowers can run block.. bottom line.. They need to solidify the line.. period..
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I didn't get a chance to look at the boards of NFL gms, sorry.
You trust the mocks over our FO? Good for you.
I'll go with the guys that actually won some hardware.
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
Anyone who's really been paying attention to the giants over the years and listened to Reese, you know that for them to make this pick at #9, they had to feel he was that elusive "blue goose" level prospect.
originally thought #9 was a little high for Flowers, but it's fine to pick him now. Fantastic size and length. 37 reps. Nearly 35" arms. Mean, nasty, mauling drive blocker who opened up a lot of holes for Duke Johnson. Gets to the second level very well. Has some problems sometimes setting the edge in pass protection, but also did well in that regard in many games. Also has some technique issues, but that can be corrected. Only 21. Versatile. Could easily become an excellent LT. Well done Jerry.
remains the best evidence Thing about Pugh moving inside. If you don't think he can run block at tackle, why can he at guard? I think Flowers will play ROT for the Giants. Pugh will go to LG, Left Hemisphere deal, for a year, then he replaces Beatty at LOT, which is his position. Schwartz is a Right Hemisphere guy. He goes to RG.
or could have had offers but the giants didn't even wait for the phone to ring once they were on the clock- they ran that pick up as soon as they were on the clock. That is wrong imho
1. Looks bad on film. Terrible technique and I don't see him dominating anyone. Peat looked great on all film. Not one bad piece of film. I defy anyone to find any bad film on Peat.
2. Injury history. Already torn meniscus. We all know how this team is with even healthy players to start. They turn unhealthy fast. Good to start behind the eight ball.
3. An absolute moron. A complete mental defective. Listen to the radio interview on youtube. So stupid it will be years if ever before he learns how to play. Peat was a brilliant kid, prototype player and person. We have botched this royally.
RE: The main dissappointment is knowing you settled
that's what our beat writers/insiders have been saying for weeks now.
Looks like they nailed it. Does not make me confident as a Giants fan that they allowed this leak to spread so much. They tried to put out the RB stuff last sec to throw everyone off the trail but they were going Scherff or Flowers.
...I really wonder what you have been watching the past two years.
Our pass pro has been decent. Eli had a good year throwing the ball. The run game isn't all OL. The center sucked, but our talent at RB is marginal. Gurley would have helped that more than Flowers IMO.
On offense when they lost Seubert, KMac, and Jacobs. Even Bradshaw played a very physical game for such a small guy.
Sometimes you need a mean guy on the team who inspires the rest of the unit together nasty.
Hoping Flowers is that guy. Certainly the scouting reports all suggest he could be.
I remember watching him go up against Donald a few times a couple years ago and held his own pretty we'll. someone was dogging him as a guy who wasn't a very good player, but I liked what I saw then. Glad to see him on our OL. I bet this wasn't a pure need pick but a BPA situation, since it isi harder to argue that OL was more of a need than safety.
He has even higher upside than Peat but his feet make me a little nervous. Peat IMO was the higher floor but just slightly lower ceiling pick.
Don't know if I would have went Flowers over Peat BUT
If he cleans up his footwork this is a guy that could be the 'BLUE GOOSE' LT we have been talking about pretty much since Jumbo Elliot.
He is a Gigantic man, long arms , (better body than Peat) and still developing. Also a pretty clean injury history (shouldn't be discounted). Also one of best 10yd splits of all OL at 329 lbs.
He has even higher upside than Peat but his feet make me a little nervous. Peat IMO was the higher floor but just slightly lower ceiling pick.
Don't know if I would have went Flowers over Peat BUT
If he cleans up his footwork this is a guy that could be the 'BLUE GOOSE' LT we have been talking about pretty much since Jumbo Elliot.
He is a Gigantic man, long arms , (better body than Peat) and still developing. Also a pretty clean injury history (shouldn't be discounted). Also one of best 10yd splits of all OL at 329 lbs.
(Who is projected to move to guard); why can't Flowers conceivably do the same ?
If he does go to RT, and become the next McKinzie, that WOULD be awesome. As far as picking him to eventually become the Beatty replacement; right now that's not worth talking about.
Again, with Scherff gone, I thought they'd take best Need/BPA DT Danny Shelton.
Scherff was going to play guard. They never saw him as a tackle. And to be honest after I saw the interview with his mom on the carpet. It didn't sound like they really cared about going to a big city. Those are things that you don't pick up watching tapes but comes from sitting down interviewing them. Washington is a sort of wilderness but I don't think it will be the one he is used to.
RE: The main dissappointment is knowing you settled
Nastiest lineman in the draft. His footwork needs work but he didn't allow a sack all season because of his immense strength. Very coachable and will get better. Only 20 years old and the arrow is pointing up. He could be the best tackle in this draft in a few years but in the meantime, put him at left guard and watch him destroy lineman. Very happy with this pick and glad Scherff was already off the board.
You've done a lot of work on this draft. Hope you prove prescient. Agree re. the footwork, seems heavy footed in the minimal footage shown. Interested to hear your analysis why he's a better pick than Scherff--upside?
Finally drafting some linemen in the early rounds. GY planet theory lives.
Uh we have Pugh who's a first round pick, Richburg who is a high 2nd round pick and Beatty who was a 2nd round pick. We've been drafting players in the early rounds
Man child nasty huge just turned 21 last week. Maybe RT this year maybe LT after that smart nastiness again he tries to hurt people wants to be the toughest guy on the field
1. Looks bad on film. Terrible technique and I don't see him dominating anyone. Peat looked great on all film. Not one bad piece of film. I defy anyone to find any bad film on Peat.
2. Injury history. Already torn meniscus. We all know how this team is with even healthy players to start. They turn unhealthy fast. Good to start behind the eight ball.
3. An absolute moron. A complete mental defective. Listen to the radio interview on youtube. So stupid it will be years if ever before he learns how to play. Peat was a brilliant kid, prototype player and person. We have botched this royally.
Wow. That's quite the indictment.
So you're watching film? What about Flowers technique concerns you? Please be very specific. Because I would really like to know.
When i hear "massive, mauler, mean streak, dumb" I can't help but think of that other Eric with a K who was our nemesis for so many years. Erik Williams. If we have that kind of a player, then I am very happy with this pick.
Yeah Duane Brown stinks, so does D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Seantrel Henderson, Orlando Franklin, Branden Albert, Eugene Monroe, Rodney Hudson, Bryan Stork...anyone else I need to name or can you just admit you're a fuckwit know nothing now?
shown good traits with his foot work and competitive nature. He is going into a good situation with our incumbents who are all hard workers and football smart. He could develop quickly and good in this environment. We need him playing this season and that will probably be at guard.
I imagine that MiamiHurricanesFan poster is masterbating right now?
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
IN the long run this is probably the best choice. All of a sudden I see an offensive line that's big and nasty. the center back to his normal position is Suey like mean. This kid is huge and mean, Schwartz mean.... Pugh and Beatty slick and compentent. And very young , they might have years together.
Yeah Duane Brown stinks, so does D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Seantrel Henderson, Orlando Franklin, Branden Albert, Eugene Monroe, Rodney Hudson, Bryan Stork...anyone else I need to name or can you just admit you're a fuckwit know nothing now?
Keep naming them. No need to use offensive references to anybody here. He's a Giant I love him now, but I'm not going to buy the hype the Giants front office is selling. No need for the insults.
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
remains the best evidence Thing about Pugh moving inside. If you don't think he can run block at tackle, why can he at guard? I think Flowers will play ROT for the Giants. Pugh will go to LG, Left Hemisphere deal, for a year, then he replaces Beatty at LOT, which is his position. Schwartz is a Right Hemisphere guy. He goes to RG.
My only question about Peat was attitude. And frankly I want attitude even more than technical ability, just difficult to see that as clearly as technique on tape.
IMO, the Giants picked badass attitude over technique tonight, and who knows if that's right or wrong.
an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
Watching film this guy can move for a guy. reminds me of Young's
You're kidding, right? 1) Drafting RBs in the 1st round is much too risky (see David Wilson), 2) SirYesSir is right: they last on avg. only 3-5 yrs. and 3) there was no need; we already have a nice stable of backs with Williams, Jennings and Vereen. Once we signed Vereen, that took care of any remote possibility of drafting an RB in the 1st round. Plus the need for an OL was just too great. I'm very happy with this pick.
an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
With the benefit of hindsight and knowing the end of the story, would you draft Dave Diehl, a 5th round pick, with the #9 pick overall? I would.
an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
Yeah, there's some projecting involved in the pick. If a guy has Left Tackle potential to your scouts, how do you say no?
Tyron Smith was also a very young unfinished high-potential player who started paying dividends after a couple of years.
due to his age and potential, we won't know how well or poorly the Giants did until 2 or 3 years from now. But if we can play and contribute from day 1, things will be looking pretty good in my opinion. He'll only get better with time and experience in the NFL.
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
remains the best evidence Thing about Pugh moving inside. If you don't think he can run block at tackle, why can he at guard? I think Flowers will play ROT for the Giants. Pugh will go to LG, Left Hemisphere deal, for a year, then he replaces Beatty at LOT, which is his position. Schwartz is a Right Hemisphere guy. He goes to RG.
due to his age and potential, we won't know how well or poorly the Giants did until 2 or 3 years from now. But if we can play and contribute from day 1, things will be looking pretty good in my opinion. He'll only get better with time and experience in the NFL.
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
Nasty man who can maul but needs work in pass protection. I just think he ends up "learning" his rookie year. I don't think he starts at RT at least. Maybe OG if he works hard.
the trickle down effect could be huge. Shifting Pugh to LG and the return of Schwartz. Weston in his 2nd year. They could really have a power run game reminiscent of 2008.
due to his age and potential, we won't know how well or poorly the Giants did until 2 or 3 years from now. But if we can play and contribute from day 1, things will be looking pretty good in my opinion. He'll only get better with time and experience in the NFL.
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
Agreed 100%. We haven't had any nastiness since Snee. I'm looking forward to seeing this kid blow up the guy in front of him every Sunday.
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
for one year. Then he will replace Beatty at LT when his contract expires. We will be drafting another RT in a year or 2. Flowers is young, huge, and nasty. What the hell is not to like ?
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flothe-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
. Yes, he made a lot of sense for the Giants. it was not a well kept secret they liked him. But was a need based pick, imo. The selections ahead of us did not help.
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
WalterFootball had Flowers to Giants two months ago. I don't get the shock or awe.
The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
WalterFootball had Flowers to Giants two months ago. I don't get the shock or awe.
No shock at all. Who said there was shock??? I have been saying Flowers was my prediction, as has many others. That doesn't make him a top 10 overall talent.
RE: Reese said he was the highest rated player on their board
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
Yes because you know Reese and their staff of scouts job is to appease the fan base about the draft...
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
IMO we typically go for a combo of BPA and need, I think it was slim pickings this year. The way the top 8 went down, it was as horrible as possibly imagined. I think St Louis would have pounced on Flowers if we passed on him.
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
That Chris Mara has to do some Derby handicapping!
To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
Yeah, i thought he was the best center too but not that high in round 2.
That simple. Looks like he could be a stud at guard pretty quick and maybe a stud at tackle. Scherf was similar. OL have a decent bust rate so you fill a need and maybe hit a HR. Probably a decent chance at a home run.
I wanted Parker but the pick makes tons of sense.
Really solid pick - very similar to Fluker/T. Smith/A. Davis
who all got drafted in the same ballpark. Those guys have had different career trajectories but all 3 have started ever since they entered the NFL. As a UM fan who watched all of this 30 starts I can say he was never a liability and has been the best player on the OL since the day he stepped on campus. And that was with a roster that had guys like Brandon Linder and Seantrel Henderson on it, who both started every game last year as rookies. Out of the 3 comps I think he's probably most like Smith stylistically, but regardless of how he evolves he will right away bring toughness, power, athleticism and nastiness to a line that could use all 4.
if the impact is that we have a cohesive effective offensive line, then yes.
Some people i disagree with their view of the draft. the object is to put together the best TEAM. if the player makes the TEAM significantly better by:
A)Giving the QB more time to throw thus increasing his productivity,
B)Opening running lanes for the RBs and then we have a running game as a threat,and
C) A and B lead to increased time of possession and increased fatigue on opposing defenses, and if that is the net effect, then I don't give a shit if some player at another position was a marginally better talent but didn't do as much to make the team better, especially if he was a couple of years older, while our run game stalls and our franchise QB picks himself up off the turf all day, while Beckham and Cruz wonder why no passes are coming their way.
The draft is about building a TEAM and getting the pieces you need for YOUR team to be successful, not chasing the best overall talent.
In an ideal situation that would be the case, but there is a bill to be paid for several poor drafts.
to explain how he came to the conclusion that Flowers was a moron. The kid seems a bit shy and does not use any more words than are necessary to answer questions.
On a different note, I watched his bench press 37 reps - very long arms and he wasn't bouncing those last reps. You have to be really strong to that, I don't give a shit if it is not directly applicable to the functional movements in football. He's a strong kid.
Watched his 40 - this guy can run. Basketball player - athleticism is not an issue.
RE: the technique issues - Still a kid, came to the game later in life, hard worker. At the worst, I see a kid who can be a very good guard in this league for a long time. But, he's a tackle until proven otherwise.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesnt get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
Watched Flowers from back at Norland and the kid was
Duke Johnson's body guard way back then. Have not seen many guys give Flowers much problems. Very happy that I will be able to continue watching him with the Giants. Miami have sent many a good player to the Giants. He should have been ALL ACC for the last 3 years but the teams record held a lot of the kids awards back. Coach just cannot blend the talent he has together.
Miami rotated offensive lineman at various times in his career because they had a ton of depth, but he never got worn out that I can recall. This past year he tore his MCL and was playing about 10 days later against FSU. Is his technique sloppy at times? Sure, I'm sure that's true of just about any 21 year old rookie entering the NFL. Also first time I've ever seen his work ethic questioned.
RE: I like Boylhart but that scouting report is awful
Miami rotated offensive lineman at various times in his career because they had a ton of depth, but he never got worn out that I can recall. This past year he tore his MCL and was playing about 10 days later against FSU. Is his technique sloppy at times? Sure, I'm sure that's true of just about any 21 year old rookie entering the NFL. Also first time I've ever seen his work ethic questioned.
Agree. Flowers is not a slacker at all. Kid doesn't talk much but all he does is beat up on who is against him. Old school Giant right there.
remains the best evidence Thing about Pugh moving inside. If you don't think he can run block at tackle, why can he at guard? I think Flowers will play ROT for the Giants. Pugh will go to LG, Left Hemisphere deal, for a year, then he replaces Beatty at LOT, which is his position. Schwartz is a Right Hemisphere guy. He goes to RG.
So let it be written
So let it be done.
I knew Boylhart was off the deep end when he declared
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesnt get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
"He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesnt get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman."
He did 37 reps at the combine. Every highlight I see of him is mauling his opponent off the line, and the Giants' management team seemed to indicate his strength was a big plus.
a youngster who is big, strong and nasty. I LIKE big, strong and nasty. I think he may have to be a guard in the NFL, but boy, oh boy, how I love seeing more big, strong and nasty on the Giants OL!
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Too many comments so not sure if someone made this point previously, but what this line has missed more than anything the last three years is Kareem McKenzie. We have been a disaster at RT. Maybe Pugh will be a good guard, but he looked terrible at RT. He just doesn't have the body to play RT at this level.
Flowers is the 6 foot 7 inch, 315 pounds, 37 reps on the bench press MAULER that we have not been able to replace since Kareem left. We just got a lot bigger on the OLINE and those types of bodies generally don't slide too far in drafts.
The other reason I am fine with this pick is because there was nobody else I loved that we passed on. I wanted a playmaker on defense (and still do), but who really stands out? Shane Ray I really liked but he screwed that up this week. I think the fact that Odi, Landon Collins, Preston Smith all went undrafted and guys like Tomlinson, Erving, Ogbuehi, Humphries all were snagged up shows we made the right decision.
for everyone but everything I just read about him and his work ethic is very encouraging.
There is more too it then this and I am a little concerned in the concerns for his ability to recognize stunts and pickup blitzes.
That all being said he has the two main components that it takes to succeed in the NFL, the physical makeup and the work ethic. It seems like being a great player is extremely important to him and he is laser focused on that.
Combine that with his superior strength and his ability to show that in games along with his surprising mobility and it's hard not to be excited.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
I like the pick. 9 in this draft was kind of tough. Probably not much in trade offers and middling talent. Seems like a nice mix of need and BPA.
I'll say this, I love that this kid has reputation for being nasty. We need nasty. Along with OBJ, the offense could really have some swagger which the defense could feed off of.
Giants offensive line is starting to look pretty good at this point. Need depth however.
Yep. That's the concerning part, because Reese has been absolutely awful at finding depth on the OL in later rounds. And his free agent signings for depth have been a train wreck.
Starting 5 doesn't look bad but still need to improve our depth for sure
A good tape for Flowers and Duke. And a horrible tape for Miami coaching staff. Just some horrible plays called for situation. Just ugh. Coley should be ashamed of this game tape.
Giants offensive line is starting to look pretty good at this point. Need depth however.
It is if Flowers isn't as raw as advertised and can play the RT position reasonably well his first year and Pugh transitions well to guard. Hopefully at least by the end of the year it will be as good as it looks on paper.
There's a lot invested in the line now at least with four top 2 round picks and a high priced FA.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
Makes sense to groom him a little and stop the pressure in the face of the QB. Either way the Oline needed an infusion of talent. And the Giants seem high on him.
I think he's much more athletic than Fluker, who lumbers.
because the negatives about him all seem to be stuff that can be taught. He's young and a Junior so that's expected. With another year he could have been a top 5 guy if not top 10. So I look at it the Giants got him a year early. But probably wouldn't have gotten him if he stayed in school another year.
The consensus positives are his strength, athletic ability, attitude, motor. I like that since the other starters on the line are considered more finesse guys.
And chances are slim that he isn't an improvement over other options to fill the hole in the line.
Trent Dilfer just gave him Flowers some love on sportscenter
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Has a lot to do with how you define "Best Player" in terms of the draft. I have no knowledge, and this comes up, EVERY YEAR, but how the build their boards we have no idea, or whether or not need is a factor in determining how those boards are made.
Reese however did deviate from his usual bullshit and clearly stated need was both a consideration and a factor in the choice.
he will be a right tackle. Watched the drills at the combine and it looks like his feet aren't good enough to be a LT at the next level. However, not saying that can't be improved with coaching and work.
to explain how he came to the conclusion that Flowers was a moron. The kid seems a bit shy and does not use any more words than are necessary to answer questions.
There were shitloads of moronic BBIers who said the same about JPP & that he was a major waste of a pick. I don't recall Eli ever sounding much like a genius either.
must've been a debate. Peat has the powerful base and can anchor better but Flowers has the powerful arms and shoulders. This is a 20 year old who led all OLineman in the Bench Press with 37 despite having long 34.5" arms. I know the BP isn't the best indicator of strength but Flowers' gameplay reflects his combine results with his powerful punch. I was just reading UKGiantsfan's OT review and noticed a measurement I liked.
Peat: 80.25" wingspan
Flowers: 83.25" wingspan
So despite Peat's height advantage, Flowers has 3" of length on Peat or 1.5" an arm reach. That's a pretty clear advantage for Flowers. Flowers' combination of length + strength in the upper body makes him a potentially nasty run blocker. Gains control and erases you. I think the fact that he just turned 21 means he can become even bigger and stronger with NFL weight training.
The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique.
I'm happy we picked Flowers over Scherff. This isn't hindsight. I would've preferred Peat over Scherff as well. Scherff reminded a lot of these old/current Giants OLineman of the classic pulling/athletic Giants OL prototype. Pugh and Richburg are both those type of players. Flowers is the type of behemoth that the Giants haven't had on this line in a long time. I think his skillset was needed more than Scherff's on this Giants OL.
Said he could play LT as well as RT. he was rated number 21 in his top 100 player list. I really wanted Scherff but am happy with the Flowers pick. Major addition to the OL and really helps solidify the OL. Time to get back to a balanced offense and run the football.
"The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique."
You can see a tendency to lunge in the film. As to 0 sacks, part of that is that he is just so big that the average/above-average college RT/RDE couldn't get around him fast enough to record a sack. The relationship and response to Flaherty are going to be key. Send him to ballet class now so he becomes a bit lighter on his feet by camp!1 (: At least Reese didn't say he's got left tackle feet and put the Curse of Brewer on him.
As to depth, Eric makes the comment that stretch's list of depth: most are not NFL players, LOL. I would agree as to Reynolds, maybe Mosley (still have some hope, maybe even Newhouse. Jerry is depth.
And I have a hunch Brett Jones gives a run for the money to WR, maybe Pugh, that Jones is one tough SOB who is very motivated to adapt to NFL.
For me, tonight is when 2015 draft becomes intriguing.
of George Rogers over LT (Gurley in this instance). Reese has overall done pretty well in round 1 so there's hope but it's a huge disappointment to pass on the more or less consensus best player in the draft - and best prospect at his position in about 10 years - when he falls to you.
Love the pick, and if you noticed the Giants ran to the desk with
of George Rogers over LT (Gurley in this instance). Reese has overall done pretty well in round 1 so there's hope but it's a huge disappointment to pass on the more or less consensus best player in the draft - and best prospect at his position in about 10 years - when he falls to you.
But that "best prospect" was coming off a knee injury that some recover from and some never do. Not to mention he had been nicked up every year in college. If he will not be able to last 16 games plus postseason that is an issue. Not to mention what line will he run behind? Rather than Rogers/Taylor it would have been passing up Cordy Glenn for David Wilson if we went with Gurley
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I don't know if you read my post before the draft stating I think the Giants prefer Flowers over Scherff. Reese likes getting those very young players when he can and Flowers is a couple of years younger then Sccherff. Also, and this may or may not be true of Scherff,I have a concern for picking Iowa lineman. There ALWAYS seems to pick a top lineman coming out of Iowa. Most of them never panned out to be top lineman. Some good,but not for 1st rounders. Why is that? I believe that the Iowa lineman are getting great coaching from Ferentz,who was an offensive line coach in the NFL and his players come into the league maxed out potentially. There is not question here who has the higher upside
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
how anyone can be a) surprised or b) dissapointed with this pick. He has everything you look for in a Reese first round pick (Junior entry with extreme athleticism and major upside) and fills a massive need. He not only upgrades our right tackle position but guard as well as Pugh will likely kick inside to left guard.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
I didn't realize that Sy'56 has a 2nd round grade on Flowers
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
what I posted last night? What I stated is on point. Doesn't make it a bad pick. I think they look at bookending him in his first year depending on offseason and camp with the idea that ultimately he's a T. And possibly Beattys replacement.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I suspect that they actually want to move Pugh inside permanently to guard. So if that's the case I can't imagine they'd delay it a year and then flip Flowers and Pugh down the road.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
But I think he will take a while to develop. Supposedly very strong, good feet, aggressive. However they want him at one of the tackle positions and you need good hands and from the things I have read and heard from the "experts" has major technique issues. He got away in college with stuff due to size and strength that will cost him in NFL. Needs to be very strong with hands and have a good punch and he hasn't shown that. Giants OL coaching is solid so hopefully he comes around quickly but for a #9 pick I expect him to start. This front office won't have another draft if he fails.
i don't doubt that ultimately Flowers is a T. However, we'd be remiss if we didn't recall how the Cowboys deployed Martin in his rookie year. And they weren't exactly loaded at either T spot. Give me that kind of performance from a rookie all day long.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I think most people thought Martin's best position was guard coming out of the draft even long term. Otherwise he goes in the top 5 if most thought he was a tackle.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
often - so this pick can't be evaluated like other first round picks ... it has to be evaluated with other times the Giants picked in the top ten ... and all I care about is that Flowers ends up having the impact upon games that Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks and Eli Manning have had.
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.
i don't doubt that ultimately Flowers is a T. However, we'd be remiss if we didn't recall how the Cowboys deployed Martin in his rookie year. And they weren't exactly loaded at either T spot. Give me that kind of performance from a rookie all day long.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
Coughlin called him a tackle and mentioned nothing about guard. How many good near six seven guards are there anyway? And he has a problem playing low too. I know Pugh is a Syracuse guy, but the writing is on the wall for him to move inside.
I am guilty of falling in love with "sexy" picks, and I LOVE Shelton. So when I heard Flowers called, I was a little bummed. But the more I read about him, the more excited I get. His potential seems as massive as his frame, he is young and based on reports seems very coach-able.
Most of the negative reviews of the pick also make me feel good about it, because they seem to be super nit picky or fixable. Can't wait to see what he can do!
I'm wondering how people even know what the pick is immediately after it has happened.
Frankly, anyone calling it a great pick or a shitty one is just like everyone else in making a knee-jerk reaction.
Radar, my "MO" is not to be angry, it is to shit on a few things:
1) Those who act as if they know more than people making informed decisions
2) Those who question the motivation or "toughness" of players
3) Those who jump to conclusions immediately (Anyone remember the shit Odell got in the early part of last year for being a "pussy")?
Since you fit all those categories as a smarmy contrarian, you seem to take a heap of shit. Look around, it isn't just me who realizes what an ignorant douche you are.
the fact that Coughlin calls him a tackle in the media means absolutely nothing. The most likely scenario is that he's lighting a fire under Pugh's ass that he's got competition and he'd better stay healthy and play like a stud. Flowers has a few holes that can't be denied. Give him a year to get into a professional S&C program, take care of his nutrition and realize he's got a lot of growth in front of him both on and off the field.
To pencil anyone in anywhere at this point is simply speculation. And in essence, wild speculation because we're just fans.
the video you posted - as an OL coach i will tell you that Flowers needs to get his feet under him at the second level. This is an issue for him. He doesn't break down at all and typically looks for the big block rather than the effective one. In this case he got the job done but technically-speaking it was not good.
is his age and maturity. Not much of a body of work in college...hopefully is he is not mismanaged from a development perspective like all of the other oline guys we have drafted recently.
As a true freshman at the University of Miami in 2012, Flowers played in all 12 games at right tackle, making four starts.[3][4] As a sophomore in 2013, he started all 12 games at left tackle.[5] He returned as the starting left tackle in 2014. Body of Work - ( New Window )
...when I read some of the things you put out there on BBI (which admittedly ain't very often), I am left wondering why you haven't been banned from this site years ago.
But here's a novel idea. Make your point and leave out all the scatological abusive language... all it does is obscure the points you're trying to make.
I'm no good at fishing stuff out of the archive. For example, how do you find Sy'56's OT 2015 NFL Draft review? I couldn't do it. Thanks.
I stumbled upon UKGiantsFan's Ereck Flowers review and figured I should re-post it here:
The big, dynamic RT prospects Ereck Flowers, Miami FL (66 1/4, 329lbs, 34 1/2 arms, 5.31 speed, 37 BP reps).
Three year starter (first year at RT, last two at LT). True junior entry and only 21 years old. Has prototypical height and length (83 1/4 wingspan). Powerful, punishing blocker who looks every bit a RT physically and is far faster than he looks (runs a 1.78 over first 10 yards which ranks in the top 5 amongst all OLs). Strong and mean - a real finisher who will pound on his opponent. Scheme diverse - can power a running game in line and also make blocks out wide in the open field. Relies on his power in pass protection but got abused by the quickness of Virginias Eli Harold and bull-rushed to the ground by Nebraskas 235lb Randy Gregory. His kick step is just plain ugly so when hes late off the ball hes toast on the edge (as was the case v Gregory who also beat him for a gimme sack) and he struggles to redirect to inside moves. Doesnt react quickly to stunts. Does some grabbing (6 holding penalties in two years). Had surgery during the 14 season on a torn meniscus and missed a game but returned to full health thereafter. Some suggestion that hed be a better Guard in a power blocking scheme but Im not of that opinion - I think hes an RT only. The Giants sent a large contingent to his Pro Day (Reese, Ross and Exec. Scout Joe Collins) so may well have an interest in him. Has a nice upside if his footwork and balance issues are deemed correctable. Will probably be over-drafted in the top 25 but he ranks as no more than a top 50 pick in my view.
How long are his arms?
He's going to likely need time to develop.
The #Rams are on the clock, and the pick is worth watching. Meanwhile the Giants picked OT Ereck Flowers. A beast
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There was a reasonable offer?
anyway, yeah Flowers
Flowers is the kind of kid that's gonna play with a chip on his shoulder because he didn't go higher.
He's going to likely need time to develop.
Left Guard at the very least.
I don't know a lot about college football so I can't comment on Flowers. But I know I did want to go OL, I just wished we could've moved down a few spots and picked up a 2nd rounder in the process.
What's this guy's deal?
A good match of BPA and Need imo.
Looks like Pugh is going to LG.
Like literally last week.
He also didn't allow a sack all damn season and is a better run blocker...
Maybe other years there is a refusal, but no one is trading up/down this year to any significant degree. The talent/value isn't there (even with a guy like Williams, who people think fell, but, in reality, already has had labrum tears on both shoulders) to merit it.
Pugh
Richburg
Schwartz
Flowers
How long are his arms?
34 and 1/2
Will you also revisit it if in three years he's a middling guard?
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not sexy and you have to wonder why we refuse to trade down.
There was a reasonable offer?
well i'm sure we'll never find out. My point is unless they feel Flowers is the BPA they have to cultivate options to trade down. That they had their pick in right away might inform us regarding how they feel about him.
Pugh
Richburg
Schwartz
Flowers
Yes
He's gonna be a stud.
Why does that statement mean people suck? He seems like an over draft and a lot of analysts are calling him that.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
I love the pick
2. Did Mara leave for the Derby yet?
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Will you also revisit it if in three years he's a middling guard?
aren't you happy you get to move pugh inside to guard now?
He was calling Peat.
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He called it.
He was calling Peat.
He was until last week. Said it would be Flowers. JonC is consistent homerun hitter around here.
Nice post.
Jerry Reese on Ereck Flowers : "We think it's all upside with him. Young. Powerful. Tough. He's got a nasty streak."
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The only possible trade I could see was with the Saints but only if Beasley was on the board. He wasn't.
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"Ughh could have picked up a 3rd and still gotten him at 14...". People suck.
Why does that statement mean people suck? He seems like an over draft and a lot of analysts are calling him that.
Because the trade down comments are nauseating. It's so tiresome to read on every thread. Is as if the Giants had 7 different offers and chose not to just to make fans upset. ID love to trade down, pick up and extra pick, and still get my guy, but it's not madden.
Jerry Reese: "Highest guy on our board ... obviously he's a gigantic human being." #NYG
This fact eludes many a people. Every year.
Jerry Reese mentions Flowers long arms, combine bench press numbers, says he just turned 21, can play either tackle.
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At least we got one last year at 12.
And Flowers isn't a risk?
Jerry Reese says this was the scouting report from Miami coaches on Ereck Flowers: "This guy don't take any crap from anybody.
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Jerry Reese says this was the scouting report from Miami coaches on Ereck Flowers: "This guy don't take any crap from anybody.
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So what?
Many of the same posters claiming bad value with Flowers. They are silent on the subject now.
He's gonna be a stud.
LoL ^^^^ This!!!
My thoughts exactly
Flowers can get playing time at guard in the place for where they had John Jerry and you upgrade the talent immediately. And let's face it, I'm not sure the Giants are completely sold on Beatty, who has regressed since he got his extension. Flowers could figure at left tackle in Beatty's place within a year.
BBI cant keep talking about how bad the running game is and keeping Eli upright and protected.. and then cry when they actually take an OL..
Flowers can run block.. bottom line.. They need to solidify the line.. period..
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I didn't get a chance to look at the boards of NFL gms, sorry.
You trust the mocks over our FO? Good for you.
I'll go with the guys that actually won some hardware.
I love the pick
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us?.
Neither was Odell Beckham.
Ru nuts? Half the fan base called for this or Schereff lol
Good lord
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He called it.
He was calling Peat.
No. He said on the last week it was Scherff then Flowers if Scherff got picked. All in the last week
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
Yes. Several had him going to the Rams. See link
Link - ( New Window )
Flowers may be in a position to learn this year IF we have talent at OG. Round #2 hoping for DE Preston but if not maybe we get best OG available?
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Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 3s4 seconds ago
Jerry Reese says this was the scouting report from Miami coaches on Ereck Flowers: "This guy don't take any crap from anybody.
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So what?
So their current LT frequently takes crap. This line needs a healthy dose of badass, and Flowers brings that, plus great athleticism.
Coughlin said Giants were worried Rams might trade up to take Flowers ahead of them.
expects him to compete for a starter role
was highest guy on their board
Tremendous upside on 21
2. Injury history. Already torn meniscus. We all know how this team is with even healthy players to start. They turn unhealthy fast. Good to start behind the eight ball.
3. An absolute moron. A complete mental defective. Listen to the radio interview on youtube. So stupid it will be years if ever before he learns how to play. Peat was a brilliant kid, prototype player and person. We have botched this royally.
We were not picking first. We'll never know if we "settled". If we had taken Kevin White, would you be whining that we settled?
Looks like they nailed it. Does not make me confident as a Giants fan that they allowed this leak to spread so much. They tried to put out the RB stuff last sec to throw everyone off the trail but they were going Scherff or Flowers.
I'm happy it's Flowers and not Scherff.
Our pass pro has been decent. Eli had a good year throwing the ball. The run game isn't all OL. The center sucked, but our talent at RB is marginal. Gurley would have helped that more than Flowers IMO.
Coughlin on Flowers: "You see him on film. You see him at the second level trying to finish people off."
Horseshit.
Sometimes you need a mean guy on the team who inspires the rest of the unit together nasty.
Hoping Flowers is that guy. Certainly the scouting reports all suggest he could be.
I remember watching him go up against Donald a few times a couple years ago and held his own pretty we'll. someone was dogging him as a guy who wasn't a very good player, but I liked what I saw then. Glad to see him on our OL. I bet this wasn't a pure need pick but a BPA situation, since it isi harder to argue that OL was more of a need than safety.
LeSean McCoy went from good, to unbelievably good, to a traded question mark in 3 years.
A good LT could last 10-12 years
1) he goes to RT
2) Pugh goes to LG
Run Right! Seriously behind Schwartz and Flowers that is at least 650 lbs.
And there is a chance that Fliwers is the LT of the future.
Good pick
Don't know if I would have went Flowers over Peat BUT
If he cleans up his footwork this is a guy that could be the 'BLUE GOOSE' LT we have been talking about pretty much since Jumbo Elliot.
He is a Gigantic man, long arms , (better body than Peat) and still developing. Also a pretty clean injury history (shouldn't be discounted). Also one of best 10yd splits of all OL at 329 lbs.
Don't know if I would have went Flowers over Peat BUT
If he cleans up his footwork this is a guy that could be the 'BLUE GOOSE' LT we have been talking about pretty much since Jumbo Elliot.
He is a Gigantic man, long arms , (better body than Peat) and still developing. Also a pretty clean injury history (shouldn't be discounted). Also one of best 10yd splits of all OL at 329 lbs.
If he does go to RT, and become the next McKinzie, that WOULD be awesome. As far as picking him to eventually become the Beatty replacement; right now that's not worth talking about.
Again, with Scherff gone, I thought they'd take best Need/BPA DT Danny Shelton.
I trust the Giants, welcome Ereck! Kick some ass for us up front! Soon!
Pugh
Richburg
Schwartz
Flowers
Like it
but he should have had Reggie White .
So what? Maybe the Giants should have lost more games so they could have picked higher?
no way to trade down. the rams wanted him bad at the next pick
1) he goes to RT
2) Pugh goes to LG
Run Right! Seriously behind Schwartz and Flowers that is at least 650 lbs.
And there is a chance that Fliwers is the LT of the future.
Good pick
Yeah.
You've done a lot of work on this draft. Hope you prove prescient. Agree re. the footwork, seems heavy footed in the minimal footage shown. Interested to hear your analysis why he's a better pick than Scherff--upside?
Uh we have Pugh who's a first round pick, Richburg who is a high 2nd round pick and Beatty who was a 2nd round pick. We've been drafting players in the early rounds
Run right all day. Pugh pulls.
Link - ( New Window )
2. Injury history. Already torn meniscus. We all know how this team is with even healthy players to start. They turn unhealthy fast. Good to start behind the eight ball.
3. An absolute moron. A complete mental defective. Listen to the radio interview on youtube. So stupid it will be years if ever before he learns how to play. Peat was a brilliant kid, prototype player and person. We have botched this royally.
Wow. That's quite the indictment.
So you're watching film? What about Flowers technique concerns you? Please be very specific. Because I would really like to know.
By that reasoning the All-Americans should go first.
Yay popularity contests!
Like literally last week.
He also didn't allow a sack all damn season and is a better run blocker...
Wow - really?
and i like you :). Lol
Shit! Well, the Redskins did select a guard with the 6th pick so it could have been worse...
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to realize that dude just turned 21.
Like literally last week.
He also didn't allow a sack all damn season and is a better run blocker...
Wow - really?
Really really
You literally just heard Marc Ross say that on an interview with Bob Papa. Why do you pretend to have inside info?
Run right all day. Pugh pulls.
Who runs the ball?
I would have taken Peat over Flowers as well. I think he has the best feet in the draft. But Flowers is certainly defensible.
Yeah Duane Brown stinks, so does D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Seantrel Henderson, Orlando Franklin, Branden Albert, Eugene Monroe, Rodney Hudson, Bryan Stork...anyone else I need to name or can you just admit you're a fuckwit know nothing now?
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Richburg, Pugh, Flowers.
Run right all day. Pugh pulls.
Who runs the ball?
Jennings? Williams? Shane Vereen catching out of the backfield?
That's a pretty good backfield when you have a good O-line. Don't forget the Earth, Wind, and Fires of the world.
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Did you have your hood on when you typed that or do you only bring it out for cross burnings?
IN the long run this is probably the best choice. All of a sudden I see an offensive line that's big and nasty. the center back to his normal position is Suey like mean. This kid is huge and mean, Schwartz mean.... Pugh and Beatty slick and compentent. And very young , they might have years together.
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ACC o lineman. Please.
Yeah Duane Brown stinks, so does D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Seantrel Henderson, Orlando Franklin, Branden Albert, Eugene Monroe, Rodney Hudson, Bryan Stork...anyone else I need to name or can you just admit you're a fuckwit know nothing now?
Keep naming them. No need to use offensive references to anybody here. He's a Giant I love him now, but I'm not going to buy the hype the Giants front office is selling. No need for the insults.
Not sure why folks are upset. The Giants were always going this way.
This.
lol
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
My only question about Peat was attitude. And frankly I want attitude even more than technical ability, just difficult to see that as clearly as technique on tape.
IMO, the Giants picked badass attitude over technique tonight, and who knows if that's right or wrong.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
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an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
With the benefit of hindsight and knowing the end of the story, would you draft Dave Diehl, a 5th round pick, with the #9 pick overall? I would.
Literally a Giant!
And what may I ask is your IQ, you fucking shitbag? I can't imagine it reaches three digits...
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an OL with a mean streak who was a good run blocker which is just what they got. Flowers has a big upside I am not sure why so many hate the pick. I like Peat more but I am happy with Flowers.
The 9th pick is a premium pick. Unless he's playing LT, he's not playing at a very high leverage position so he's going to have to be all pro level to be good value so high. That's a risk.
Yeah, there's some projecting involved in the pick. If a guy has Left Tackle potential to your scouts, how do you say no?
Tyron Smith was also a very young unfinished high-potential player who started paying dividends after a couple of years.
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Now let's help our defense.
This.
DT, then S or DE in the 3rd.
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
agree 100%
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
I'd like you to clarify your observation that the kid is a moron based off an interview. Point out specifics.
I wasn't crazy about Peat so I'm not upset about that. I'd rather get the nasty guy with the higher ceiling anyway if I had to choose. Not a sexy pick but it's nice that they have another guy on the OL now. I just hope he can contribute right away at least decently like Richburg did last year despite being only 21.
Agreed 100%. We haven't had any nastiness since Snee. I'm looking forward to seeing this kid blow up the guy in front of him every Sunday.
Coughlin said Flowers is a tackle and could play either side. #GiantsDraft
9:23 PM - 30 Apr 2015
5 5 Retweets 6 6 favorites
This OL had zero depth.
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
Hopefully it pans out ....
This OL had zero depth.
I still thinking the Giants are somehow going to get Marpet. Another guy they really like.
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In comment 12260119 Rflairr said:
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flothe-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
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In comment 12260119 Rflairr said:
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
WalterFootball had Flowers to Giants two months ago. I don't get the shock or awe.
a team that finished 6-10 has a LOT of needs.. so almost ANY pick technically could be NEED based..
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In comment 12260168 UberAlias said:
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In comment 12260119 Rflairr said:
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The beat writers have been saying for weeks they were high on him
. Yes but did you ever see any mocks with him going in the too 10 to anyone besides us? No. Because he's not a top 10 talent. He's just the top linemen on their board.
I saw several Flowers-to-the-Giants predictions, not sure where, don't have a link. It was a popular prediction among people who thought 1) the Giants HAD to go O-line and 2) Scherff would be gone.
WalterFootball had Flowers to Giants two months ago. I don't get the shock or awe.
No shock at all. Who said there was shock??? I have been saying Flowers was my prediction, as has many others. That doesn't make him a top 10 overall talent.
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
Yes because you know Reese and their staff of scouts job is to appease the fan base about the draft...
/eyeroll
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
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In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
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In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
That Chris Mara has to do some Derby handicapping!
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To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
Yeah, i thought he was the best center too but not that high in round 2.
I wanted Parker but the pick makes tons of sense.
Some people i disagree with their view of the draft. the object is to put together the best TEAM. if the player makes the TEAM significantly better by:
A)Giving the QB more time to throw thus increasing his productivity,
B)Opening running lanes for the RBs and then we have a running game as a threat,and
C) A and B lead to increased time of possession and increased fatigue on opposing defenses, and if that is the net effect, then I don't give a shit if some player at another position was a marginally better talent but didn't do as much to make the team better, especially if he was a couple of years older, while our run game stalls and our franchise QB picks himself up off the turf all day, while Beckham and Cruz wonder why no passes are coming their way.
The draft is about building a TEAM and getting the pieces you need for YOUR team to be successful, not chasing the best overall talent.
In an ideal situation that would be the case, but there is a bill to be paid for several poor drafts.
On a different note, I watched his bench press 37 reps - very long arms and he wasn't bouncing those last reps. You have to be really strong to that, I don't give a shit if it is not directly applicable to the functional movements in football. He's a strong kid.
Watched his 40 - this guy can run. Basketball player - athleticism is not an issue.
RE: the technique issues - Still a kid, came to the game later in life, hard worker. At the worst, I see a kid who can be a very good guard in this league for a long time. But, he's a tackle until proven otherwise.
And, he has a proven mean streak.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesnt get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
Boylhart, as usual, is way off there -- at least regarding any supposed lack of upper body strength.
Agree. Flowers is not a slacker at all. Kid doesn't talk much but all he does is beat up on who is against him. Old school Giant right there.
So let it be written
So let it be done.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesnt get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
I guess Boylhart is wrong. Sounds personal.
He did 37 reps at the combine. Every highlight I see of him is mauling his opponent off the line, and the Giants' management team seemed to indicate his strength was a big plus.
Very odd comment.
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People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Jesus Christ..
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In comment 12260376 stretch234 said:
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People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Jesus Christ..
Do you have a point?
Should be starter at RT. Love it.
Flowers is the 6 foot 7 inch, 315 pounds, 37 reps on the bench press MAULER that we have not been able to replace since Kareem left. We just got a lot bigger on the OLINE and those types of bodies generally don't slide too far in drafts.
The other reason I am fine with this pick is because there was nobody else I loved that we passed on. I wanted a playmaker on defense (and still do), but who really stands out? Shane Ray I really liked but he screwed that up this week. I think the fact that Odi, Landon Collins, Preston Smith all went undrafted and guys like Tomlinson, Erving, Ogbuehi, Humphries all were snagged up shows we made the right decision.
Haha...self'd
Video - ( New Window )
There is more too it then this and I am a little concerned in the concerns for his ability to recognize stunts and pickup blitzes.
That all being said he has the two main components that it takes to succeed in the NFL, the physical makeup and the work ethic. It seems like being a great player is extremely important to him and he is laser focused on that.
Combine that with his superior strength and his ability to show that in games along with his surprising mobility and it's hard not to be excited.
This guy is a Giant in more ways than one.
(ok, tomorrow was the last day to do it).
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
I'll say this, I love that this kid has reputation for being nasty. We need nasty. Along with OBJ, the offense could really have some swagger which the defense could feed off of.
Yep. That's the concerning part, because Reese has been absolutely awful at finding depth on the OL in later rounds. And his free agent signings for depth have been a train wreck.
Starting 5 doesn't look bad but still need to improve our depth for sure
A good tape for Flowers and Duke. And a horrible tape for Miami coaching staff. Just some horrible plays called for situation. Just ugh. Coley should be ashamed of this game tape.
It is if Flowers isn't as raw as advertised and can play the RT position reasonably well his first year and Pugh transitions well to guard. Hopefully at least by the end of the year it will be as good as it looks on paper.
There's a lot invested in the line now at least with four top 2 round picks and a high priced FA.
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He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
Makes sense to groom him a little and stop the pressure in the face of the QB. Either way the Oline needed an infusion of talent. And the Giants seem high on him.
As every year passes, he becomes less a source of information and more of a Hot Take artist with his scathing, attempted-controversial commentary.
The consensus positives are his strength, athletic ability, attitude, motor. I like that since the other starters on the line are considered more finesse guys.
And chances are slim that he isn't an improvement over other options to fill the hole in the line.
But Mel Kiper had him in "the 20's" so i'm sure we will be getting a bad grade from him.
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Pugh to guard.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
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In comment 12260636 chris r said:
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In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Reese however did deviate from his usual bullshit and clearly stated need was both a consideration and a factor in the choice.
There were shitloads of moronic BBIers who said the same about JPP & that he was a major waste of a pick. I don't recall Eli ever sounding much like a genius either.
Link - ( New Window )
Peat: 80.25" wingspan
Flowers: 83.25" wingspan
So despite Peat's height advantage, Flowers has 3" of length on Peat or 1.5" an arm reach. That's a pretty clear advantage for Flowers. Flowers' combination of length + strength in the upper body makes him a potentially nasty run blocker. Gains control and erases you. I think the fact that he just turned 21 means he can become even bigger and stronger with NFL weight training.
The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique.
I'm happy we picked Flowers over Scherff. This isn't hindsight. I would've preferred Peat over Scherff as well. Scherff reminded a lot of these old/current Giants OLineman of the classic pulling/athletic Giants OL prototype. Pugh and Richburg are both those type of players. Flowers is the type of behemoth that the Giants haven't had on this line in a long time. I think his skillset was needed more than Scherff's on this Giants OL.
Peat has a 34.25" arm length so not much different than Flowers. But Flowers does have the overall length and upper body frame edge over Peat.
Depth does not exist because you have inactive players
Right now you have
Newhouse
Jerry
Reynolds
Jones
Mosely
Which 3 are active on Sundays
You also have to remember though, that Flowers is a full 2.5 years younger than Scherff.
Flowers reminds me a lot of DJ Fluker, who the Giants were supposedly very interested in when he came out of Alabama.
..and so was Flowers, do the Giants make the same selection?
What's your opinion?
You can see a tendency to lunge in the film. As to 0 sacks, part of that is that he is just so big that the average/above-average college RT/RDE couldn't get around him fast enough to record a sack. The relationship and response to Flaherty are going to be key. Send him to ballet class now so he becomes a bit lighter on his feet by camp!1 (: At least Reese didn't say he's got left tackle feet and put the Curse of Brewer on him.
As to depth, Eric makes the comment that stretch's list of depth: most are not NFL players, LOL. I would agree as to Reynolds, maybe Mosley (still have some hope, maybe even Newhouse. Jerry is depth.
And I have a hunch Brett Jones gives a run for the money to WR, maybe Pugh, that Jones is one tough SOB who is very motivated to adapt to NFL.
For me, tonight is when 2015 draft becomes intriguing.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Was anyone else excited when the Skins took Scherff thinking that maybe we would have a shot a Williams? I was.
Boylhart is a dooshbag.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Well, that does sound like something Reese would say..
I think it was a matter of all the elite were picked right in front of #9
But that "best prospect" was coming off a knee injury that some recover from and some never do. Not to mention he had been nicked up every year in college. If he will not be able to last 16 games plus postseason that is an issue. Not to mention what line will he run behind? Rather than Rogers/Taylor it would have been passing up Cordy Glenn for David Wilson if we went with Gurley
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
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In comment 12260045 jeff57 said:
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Pugh to guard.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
I guess Twitter does have its good points
Link - ( New Window )
We should be good to go now for a while. Young talented unit/core.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Ereck Flowers: 5.33 40 (5.29 best), 4.91 20, 34 reps of 225, 475 squat, 286 power clean, 440 bench press, 26.5 vertical
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
Denzel Perryman: 4.71 40 (4.65 best), 4.51 20, 33 reps of 225, 605 squat, 342 power clean, 435 bench press, 31 vertical
Clive Walford: 4.89 40 (4.83 best), 4.53 20, 22 reps of 225, 405 squat, 257 power clean, 350 bench press, 33 vertical
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
Quote:
Pugh to guard.
No, he would be replacing John Jerry.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
Exactly.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Here we go.
Because we could draft Jesus Christ and 80% of BBI would bitch about it.
That's his MO here.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
Coughlin called him a tackle and mentioned nothing about guard. How many good near six seven guards are there anyway? And he has a problem playing low too. I know Pugh is a Syracuse guy, but the writing is on the wall for him to move inside.
Most of the negative reviews of the pick also make me feel good about it, because they seem to be super nit picky or fixable. Can't wait to see what he can do!
Frankly, anyone calling it a great pick or a shitty one is just like everyone else in making a knee-jerk reaction.
Radar, my "MO" is not to be angry, it is to shit on a few things:
1) Those who act as if they know more than people making informed decisions
2) Those who question the motivation or "toughness" of players
3) Those who jump to conclusions immediately (Anyone remember the shit Odell got in the early part of last year for being a "pussy")?
Since you fit all those categories as a smarmy contrarian, you seem to take a heap of shit. Look around, it isn't just me who realizes what an ignorant douche you are.
To pencil anyone in anywhere at this point is simply speculation. And in essence, wild speculation because we're just fans.
Big, strong, and nasty.
Schwartz is 6-6 340
Flowers is 6-6 330
It will be time to make a yard when needed
I just enjoyed seeing him clobber someone.
Love it.
As a true freshman at the University of Miami in 2012, Flowers played in all 12 games at right tackle, making four starts.[3][4] As a sophomore in 2013, he started all 12 games at left tackle.[5] He returned as the starting left tackle in 2014.
Body of Work - ( New Window )
Also nice to have an OT who won't get overpowered.
...when I read some of the things you put out there on BBI (which admittedly ain't very often), I am left wondering why you haven't been banned from this site years ago.
But here's a novel idea. Make your point and leave out all the scatological abusive language... all it does is obscure the points you're trying to make.
I stumbled upon UKGiantsFan's Ereck Flowers review and figured I should re-post it here:
The big, dynamic RT prospects
Ereck Flowers, Miami FL (66 1/4, 329lbs, 34 1/2 arms, 5.31 speed, 37 BP reps).
Three year starter (first year at RT, last two at LT). True junior entry and only 21 years old. Has prototypical height and length (83 1/4 wingspan). Powerful, punishing blocker who looks every bit a RT physically and is far faster than he looks (runs a 1.78 over first 10 yards which ranks in the top 5 amongst all OLs). Strong and mean - a real finisher who will pound on his opponent. Scheme diverse - can power a running game in line and also make blocks out wide in the open field. Relies on his power in pass protection but got abused by the quickness of Virginias Eli Harold and bull-rushed to the ground by Nebraskas 235lb Randy Gregory. His kick step is just plain ugly so when hes late off the ball hes toast on the edge (as was the case v Gregory who also beat him for a gimme sack) and he struggles to redirect to inside moves. Doesnt react quickly to stunts. Does some grabbing (6 holding penalties in two years). Had surgery during the 14 season on a torn meniscus and missed a game but returned to full health thereafter. Some suggestion that hed be a better Guard in a power blocking scheme but Im not of that opinion - I think hes an RT only. The Giants sent a large contingent to his Pro Day (Reese, Ross and Exec. Scout Joe Collins) so may well have an interest in him. Has a nice upside if his footwork and balance issues are deemed correctable. Will probably be over-drafted in the top 25 but he ranks as no more than a top 50 pick in my view.
"Ereck Flowers' father, Everald, raises son on his own to become Giants' first-round draft pick
When his son was just 6 years old, Everald Flowers mission became clear under the saddest of circumstances.
He had a plan for his life back then, one that include marrying his love, Tanya Stokes, and raising their child together.
It wasnt to be.
Tanya was diagnosed with cancer and died a few months later."
Link - ( New Window )