To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Chris, I'm sure Reese uses a little gamesmanship Â
IMO we typically go for a combo of BPA and need, I think it was slim pickings this year. The way the top 8 went down, it was as horrible as possibly imagined. I think St Louis would have pounced on Flowers if we passed on him.
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
That Chris Mara has to do some Derby handicapping!
To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
Yeah, i thought he was the best center too but not that high in round 2.
That simple. Looks like he could be a stud at guard pretty quick and maybe a stud at tackle. Scherf was similar. OL have a decent bust rate so you fill a need and maybe hit a HR. Probably a decent chance at a home run.
I wanted Parker but the pick makes tons of sense.
Really solid pick - very similar to Fluker/T. Smith/A. Davis Â
who all got drafted in the same ballpark. Those guys have had different career trajectories but all 3 have started ever since they entered the NFL. As a UM fan who watched all of this 30 starts I can say he was never a liability and has been the best player on the OL since the day he stepped on campus. And that was with a roster that had guys like Brandon Linder and Seantrel Henderson on it, who both started every game last year as rookies. Out of the 3 comps I think he's probably most like Smith stylistically, but regardless of how he evolves he will right away bring toughness, power, athleticism and nastiness to a line that could use all 4.
if the impact is that we have a cohesive effective offensive line, then yes.
Some people i disagree with their view of the draft. the object is to put together the best TEAM. if the player makes the TEAM significantly better by:
A)Giving the QB more time to throw thus increasing his productivity,
B)Opening running lanes for the RBs and then we have a running game as a threat,and
C) A and B lead to increased time of possession and increased fatigue on opposing defenses, and if that is the net effect, then I don't give a shit if some player at another position was a marginally better talent but didn't do as much to make the team better, especially if he was a couple of years older, while our run game stalls and our franchise QB picks himself up off the turf all day, while Beckham and Cruz wonder why no passes are coming their way.
The draft is about building a TEAM and getting the pieces you need for YOUR team to be successful, not chasing the best overall talent.
In an ideal situation that would be the case, but there is a bill to be paid for several poor drafts.
to explain how he came to the conclusion that Flowers was a moron. The kid seems a bit shy and does not use any more words than are necessary to answer questions.
On a different note, I watched his bench press 37 reps - very long arms and he wasn't bouncing those last reps. You have to be really strong to that, I don't give a shit if it is not directly applicable to the functional movements in football. He's a strong kid.
Watched his 40 - this guy can run. Basketball player - athleticism is not an issue.
RE: the technique issues - Still a kid, came to the game later in life, hard worker. At the worst, I see a kid who can be a very good guard in this league for a long time. But, he's a tackle until proven otherwise.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesn’t get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
Watched Flowers from back at Norland and the kid was Â
Duke Johnson's body guard way back then. Have not seen many guys give Flowers much problems. Very happy that I will be able to continue watching him with the Giants. Miami have sent many a good player to the Giants. He should have been ALL ACC for the last 3 years but the teams record held a lot of the kids awards back. Coach just cannot blend the talent he has together.
Miami rotated offensive lineman at various times in his career because they had a ton of depth, but he never got worn out that I can recall. This past year he tore his MCL and was playing about 10 days later against FSU. Is his technique sloppy at times? Sure, I'm sure that's true of just about any 21 year old rookie entering the NFL. Also first time I've ever seen his work ethic questioned.
RE: I like Boylhart but that scouting report is awful Â
Miami rotated offensive lineman at various times in his career because they had a ton of depth, but he never got worn out that I can recall. This past year he tore his MCL and was playing about 10 days later against FSU. Is his technique sloppy at times? Sure, I'm sure that's true of just about any 21 year old rookie entering the NFL. Also first time I've ever seen his work ethic questioned.
Agree. Flowers is not a slacker at all. Kid doesn't talk much but all he does is beat up on who is against him. Old school Giant right there.
remains the best evidence Thing about Pugh moving inside. If you don't think he can run block at tackle, why can he at guard? I think Flowers will play ROT for the Giants. Pugh will go to LG, Left Hemisphere deal, for a year, then he replaces Beatty at LOT, which is his position. Schwartz is a Right Hemisphere guy. He goes to RG.
So let it be written
So let it be done.
I knew Boylhart was off the deep end when he declared Â
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesn’t get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
"He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesn’t get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman."
He did 37 reps at the combine. Every highlight I see of him is mauling his opponent off the line, and the Giants' management team seemed to indicate his strength was a big plus.
a youngster who is big, strong and nasty. I LIKE big, strong and nasty. I think he may have to be a guard in the NFL, but boy, oh boy, how I love seeing more big, strong and nasty on the Giants OL!
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Too many comments so not sure if someone made this point previously, but what this line has missed more than anything the last three years is Kareem McKenzie. We have been a disaster at RT. Maybe Pugh will be a good guard, but he looked terrible at RT. He just doesn't have the body to play RT at this level.
Flowers is the 6 foot 7 inch, 315 pounds, 37 reps on the bench press MAULER that we have not been able to replace since Kareem left. We just got a lot bigger on the OLINE and those types of bodies generally don't slide too far in drafts.
The other reason I am fine with this pick is because there was nobody else I loved that we passed on. I wanted a playmaker on defense (and still do), but who really stands out? Shane Ray I really liked but he screwed that up this week. I think the fact that Odi, Landon Collins, Preston Smith all went undrafted and guys like Tomlinson, Erving, Ogbuehi, Humphries all were snagged up shows we made the right decision.
for everyone but everything I just read about him and his work ethic is very encouraging.
There is more too it then this and I am a little concerned in the concerns for his ability to recognize stunts and pickup blitzes.
That all being said he has the two main components that it takes to succeed in the NFL, the physical makeup and the work ethic. It seems like being a great player is extremely important to him and he is laser focused on that.
Combine that with his superior strength and his ability to show that in games along with his surprising mobility and it's hard not to be excited.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
I like the pick. 9 in this draft was kind of tough. Probably not much in trade offers and middling talent. Seems like a nice mix of need and BPA.
I'll say this, I love that this kid has reputation for being nasty. We need nasty. Along with OBJ, the offense could really have some swagger which the defense could feed off of.
Giants offensive line is starting to look pretty good at this point. Need depth however.
Yep. That's the concerning part, because Reese has been absolutely awful at finding depth on the OL in later rounds. And his free agent signings for depth have been a train wreck.
Starting 5 doesn't look bad but still need to improve our depth for sure
A good tape for Flowers and Duke. And a horrible tape for Miami coaching staff. Just some horrible plays called for situation. Just ugh. Coley should be ashamed of this game tape.
Giants offensive line is starting to look pretty good at this point. Need depth however.
It is if Flowers isn't as raw as advertised and can play the RT position reasonably well his first year and Pugh transitions well to guard. Hopefully at least by the end of the year it will be as good as it looks on paper.
There's a lot invested in the line now at least with four top 2 round picks and a high priced FA.
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
Makes sense to groom him a little and stop the pressure in the face of the QB. Either way the Oline needed an infusion of talent. And the Giants seem high on him.
I think he's much more athletic than Fluker, who lumbers. Â
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
Quote:
In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
Quote:
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Quote:
In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
Quote:
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
That Chris Mara has to do some Derby handicapping!
Quote:
To draft Pugh, reacha bit for Richburg and select Flowers. The OL was awful.
several people had Richburg as a second round talent last year and one of the best centers available.. so not sure how that was a reach.. but oh well...
Yeah, i thought he was the best center too but not that high in round 2.
I wanted Parker but the pick makes tons of sense.
Some people i disagree with their view of the draft. the object is to put together the best TEAM. if the player makes the TEAM significantly better by:
A)Giving the QB more time to throw thus increasing his productivity,
B)Opening running lanes for the RBs and then we have a running game as a threat,and
C) A and B lead to increased time of possession and increased fatigue on opposing defenses, and if that is the net effect, then I don't give a shit if some player at another position was a marginally better talent but didn't do as much to make the team better, especially if he was a couple of years older, while our run game stalls and our franchise QB picks himself up off the turf all day, while Beckham and Cruz wonder why no passes are coming their way.
The draft is about building a TEAM and getting the pieces you need for YOUR team to be successful, not chasing the best overall talent.
In an ideal situation that would be the case, but there is a bill to be paid for several poor drafts.
On a different note, I watched his bench press 37 reps - very long arms and he wasn't bouncing those last reps. You have to be really strong to that, I don't give a shit if it is not directly applicable to the functional movements in football. He's a strong kid.
Watched his 40 - this guy can run. Basketball player - athleticism is not an issue.
RE: the technique issues - Still a kid, came to the game later in life, hard worker. At the worst, I see a kid who can be a very good guard in this league for a long time. But, he's a tackle until proven otherwise.
And, he has a proven mean streak.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesn’t get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
Boylhart, as usual, is way off there -- at least regarding any supposed lack of upper body strength.
Agree. Flowers is not a slacker at all. Kid doesn't talk much but all he does is beat up on who is against him. Old school Giant right there.
So let it be written
So let it be done.
"Right now, Ereck does not show the mental strength or the physical stamina to play a full game much less a 16 game schedule. He lacks the upper body strength to keep pass rushers off his body when pass blocking and when run blocking, he doesn’t get the push needed to move a flower pot -- much less an NFL defensive lineman. His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level. Ereck is in for a big shock at the next level, but given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman."
I guess Boylhart is wrong. Sounds personal.
He did 37 reps at the combine. Every highlight I see of him is mauling his opponent off the line, and the Giants' management team seemed to indicate his strength was a big plus.
Very odd comment.
Quote:
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Jesus Christ..
Quote:
In comment 12260376 stretch234 said:
Quote:
People bitch Reese neglects the OL and does not get players with nasty streak. He has now used a 1, 1, & 2 the last 3 drafts and got a player with a nasty streak. Results - people still bitch
Proves the point that people bitch just to bitch
Unless Cooper fell, an OL was picked, and rather have a guy outside than inside
Perhaps you can understand the distinction between a) wanting Reese to steadily invest value picks in maintaining the OL time over instead of letting it fall of the cliff as it did a few years ago and b) not wanting Reese to out of desperation over the situation he created, all of a sudden use a lot of premium picks on OL when there are tons of other holes on the team.
Jesus Christ..
Do you have a point?
Should be starter at RT. Love it.
Flowers is the 6 foot 7 inch, 315 pounds, 37 reps on the bench press MAULER that we have not been able to replace since Kareem left. We just got a lot bigger on the OLINE and those types of bodies generally don't slide too far in drafts.
The other reason I am fine with this pick is because there was nobody else I loved that we passed on. I wanted a playmaker on defense (and still do), but who really stands out? Shane Ray I really liked but he screwed that up this week. I think the fact that Odi, Landon Collins, Preston Smith all went undrafted and guys like Tomlinson, Erving, Ogbuehi, Humphries all were snagged up shows we made the right decision.
Haha...self'd
Video - ( New Window )
There is more too it then this and I am a little concerned in the concerns for his ability to recognize stunts and pickup blitzes.
That all being said he has the two main components that it takes to succeed in the NFL, the physical makeup and the work ethic. It seems like being a great player is extremely important to him and he is laser focused on that.
Combine that with his superior strength and his ability to show that in games along with his surprising mobility and it's hard not to be excited.
This guy is a Giant in more ways than one.
(ok, tomorrow was the last day to do it).
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
I'll say this, I love that this kid has reputation for being nasty. We need nasty. Along with OBJ, the offense could really have some swagger which the defense could feed off of.
Yep. That's the concerning part, because Reese has been absolutely awful at finding depth on the OL in later rounds. And his free agent signings for depth have been a train wreck.
Starting 5 doesn't look bad but still need to improve our depth for sure
A good tape for Flowers and Duke. And a horrible tape for Miami coaching staff. Just some horrible plays called for situation. Just ugh. Coley should be ashamed of this game tape.
It is if Flowers isn't as raw as advertised and can play the RT position reasonably well his first year and Pugh transitions well to guard. Hopefully at least by the end of the year it will be as good as it looks on paper.
There's a lot invested in the line now at least with four top 2 round picks and a high priced FA.
Quote:
He is a Tackle....am I missing something? I really like this pick. We have been so bad on third and short and rushing the ball in general. This could be a home run. I hope Pugh is better at guard, his versatility was touted in the draft. We will see.
We might start him at guard because the knock on him is he needs to work on his technique in pass protection which is more easily masked at guard because you go up against slower less quick players than tackle. Also you obviously tend to go up against bigger players and we could use his size to neutralize the bigger DTs in the league. Something that we've had a lot of trouble with over the last few years.
Makes sense to groom him a little and stop the pressure in the face of the QB. Either way the Oline needed an infusion of talent. And the Giants seem high on him.
As every year passes, he becomes less a source of information and more of a Hot Take artist with his scathing, attempted-controversial commentary.