because the negatives about him all seem to be stuff that can be taught. He's young and a Junior so that's expected. With another year he could have been a top 5 guy if not top 10. So I look at it the Giants got him a year early. But probably wouldn't have gotten him if he stayed in school another year.
The consensus positives are his strength, athletic ability, attitude, motor. I like that since the other starters on the line are considered more finesse guys.
And chances are slim that he isn't an improvement over other options to fill the hole in the line.
Trent Dilfer just gave him Flowers some love on sportscenter
or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Has a lot to do with how you define "Best Player" in terms of the draft. I have no knowledge, and this comes up, EVERY YEAR, but how the build their boards we have no idea, or whether or not need is a factor in determining how those boards are made.
Reese however did deviate from his usual bullshit and clearly stated need was both a consideration and a factor in the choice.
he will be a right tackle. Watched the drills at the combine and it looks like his feet aren't good enough to be a LT at the next level. However, not saying that can't be improved with coaching and work.
to explain how he came to the conclusion that Flowers was a moron. The kid seems a bit shy and does not use any more words than are necessary to answer questions.
There were shitloads of moronic BBIers who said the same about JPP & that he was a major waste of a pick. I don't recall Eli ever sounding much like a genius either.
must've been a debate. Peat has the powerful base and can anchor better but Flowers has the powerful arms and shoulders. This is a 20 year old who led all OLineman in the Bench Press with 37 despite having long 34.5" arms. I know the BP isn't the best indicator of strength but Flowers' gameplay reflects his combine results with his powerful punch. I was just reading UKGiantsfan's OT review and noticed a measurement I liked.
Peat: 80.25" wingspan
Flowers: 83.25" wingspan
So despite Peat's height advantage, Flowers has 3" of length on Peat or 1.5" an arm reach. That's a pretty clear advantage for Flowers. Flowers' combination of length + strength in the upper body makes him a potentially nasty run blocker. Gains control and erases you. I think the fact that he just turned 21 means he can become even bigger and stronger with NFL weight training.
The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique.
I'm happy we picked Flowers over Scherff. This isn't hindsight. I would've preferred Peat over Scherff as well. Scherff reminded a lot of these old/current Giants OLineman of the classic pulling/athletic Giants OL prototype. Pugh and Richburg are both those type of players. Flowers is the type of behemoth that the Giants haven't had on this line in a long time. I think his skillset was needed more than Scherff's on this Giants OL.
Said he could play LT as well as RT. he was rated number 21 in his top 100 player list. I really wanted Scherff but am happy with the Flowers pick. Major addition to the OL and really helps solidify the OL. Time to get back to a balanced offense and run the football.
"The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique."
You can see a tendency to lunge in the film. As to 0 sacks, part of that is that he is just so big that the average/above-average college RT/RDE couldn't get around him fast enough to record a sack. The relationship and response to Flaherty are going to be key. Send him to ballet class now so he becomes a bit lighter on his feet by camp!1 (: At least Reese didn't say he's got left tackle feet and put the Curse of Brewer on him.
As to depth, Eric makes the comment that stretch's list of depth: most are not NFL players, LOL. I would agree as to Reynolds, maybe Mosley (still have some hope, maybe even Newhouse. Jerry is depth.
And I have a hunch Brett Jones gives a run for the money to WR, maybe Pugh, that Jones is one tough SOB who is very motivated to adapt to NFL.
For me, tonight is when 2015 draft becomes intriguing.
of George Rogers over LT (Gurley in this instance). Reese has overall done pretty well in round 1 so there's hope but it's a huge disappointment to pass on the more or less consensus best player in the draft - and best prospect at his position in about 10 years - when he falls to you.
Love the pick, and if you noticed the Giants ran to the desk with
of George Rogers over LT (Gurley in this instance). Reese has overall done pretty well in round 1 so there's hope but it's a huge disappointment to pass on the more or less consensus best player in the draft - and best prospect at his position in about 10 years - when he falls to you.
But that "best prospect" was coming off a knee injury that some recover from and some never do. Not to mention he had been nicked up every year in college. If he will not be able to last 16 games plus postseason that is an issue. Not to mention what line will he run behind? Rather than Rogers/Taylor it would have been passing up Cordy Glenn for David Wilson if we went with Gurley
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I don't know if you read my post before the draft stating I think the Giants prefer Flowers over Scherff. Reese likes getting those very young players when he can and Flowers is a couple of years younger then Sccherff. Also, and this may or may not be true of Scherff,I have a concern for picking Iowa lineman. There ALWAYS seems to pick a top lineman coming out of Iowa. Most of them never panned out to be top lineman. Some good,but not for 1st rounders. Why is that? I believe that the Iowa lineman are getting great coaching from Ferentz,who was an offensive line coach in the NFL and his players come into the league maxed out potentially. There is not question here who has the higher upside
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
how anyone can be a) surprised or b) dissapointed with this pick. He has everything you look for in a Reese first round pick (Junior entry with extreme athleticism and major upside) and fills a massive need. He not only upgrades our right tackle position but guard as well as Pugh will likely kick inside to left guard.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
"reach" talk. At worst Flowers was their #2 rated offensive lineman. They clearly liked him better than Peat and others.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
I didn't realize that Sy'56 has a 2nd round grade on Flowers
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
what I posted last night? What I stated is on point. Doesn't make it a bad pick. I think they look at bookending him in his first year depending on offseason and camp with the idea that ultimately he's a T. And possibly Beattys replacement.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
I suspect that they actually want to move Pugh inside permanently to guard. So if that's the case I can't imagine they'd delay it a year and then flip Flowers and Pugh down the road.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
But I think he will take a while to develop. Supposedly very strong, good feet, aggressive. However they want him at one of the tackle positions and you need good hands and from the things I have read and heard from the "experts" has major technique issues. He got away in college with stuff due to size and strength that will cost him in NFL. Needs to be very strong with hands and have a good punch and he hasn't shown that. Giants OL coaching is solid so hopefully he comes around quickly but for a #9 pick I expect him to start. This front office won't have another draft if he fails.
i don't doubt that ultimately Flowers is a T. However, we'd be remiss if we didn't recall how the Cowboys deployed Martin in his rookie year. And they weren't exactly loaded at either T spot. Give me that kind of performance from a rookie all day long.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I think most people thought Martin's best position was guard coming out of the draft even long term. Otherwise he goes in the top 5 if most thought he was a tackle.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
often - so this pick can't be evaluated like other first round picks ... it has to be evaluated with other times the Giants picked in the top ten ... and all I care about is that Flowers ends up having the impact upon games that Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks and Eli Manning have had.
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.
The consensus positives are his strength, athletic ability, attitude, motor. I like that since the other starters on the line are considered more finesse guys.
And chances are slim that he isn't an improvement over other options to fill the hole in the line.
But Mel Kiper had him in "the 20's" so i'm sure we will be getting a bad grade from him.
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Pugh to guard.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
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In comment 12260636 chris r said:
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In comment 12260631 Headhunter said:
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or do I listen to fans who say he is a reach. I'm going with Reese
He says that every single year. So either the Giants have been incredibly lucky over the years with the convergence of BPA and need or he's shitting us.
What does it say that we wasted little time to make the selection?
Maybe that they were deadset on an OL and like Flowers most? I'm just saying Reese says the same thing every year and yet year after year we get players that fill big holes in the first round. That seems unlikely if we're always going BPA.
Reese however did deviate from his usual bullshit and clearly stated need was both a consideration and a factor in the choice.
There were shitloads of moronic BBIers who said the same about JPP & that he was a major waste of a pick. I don't recall Eli ever sounding much like a genius either.
Link - ( New Window )
Peat: 80.25" wingspan
Flowers: 83.25" wingspan
So despite Peat's height advantage, Flowers has 3" of length on Peat or 1.5" an arm reach. That's a pretty clear advantage for Flowers. Flowers' combination of length + strength in the upper body makes him a potentially nasty run blocker. Gains control and erases you. I think the fact that he just turned 21 means he can become even bigger and stronger with NFL weight training.
The question mark with Flowers is the lower body and technique. Peat did have a clear edge on Flowers in this department. Flowers' kick slide is a concern I've seen raised in different places. He doesn't have the best balance of the OT prospects imo. But I feel like his footwork can be fixed. He's still young and his footwork hasn't stopped him from dominating college where he allowed 0 sacks and was known for his run blocking. In the NFL he'll need to be cleaner with his technique.
I'm happy we picked Flowers over Scherff. This isn't hindsight. I would've preferred Peat over Scherff as well. Scherff reminded a lot of these old/current Giants OLineman of the classic pulling/athletic Giants OL prototype. Pugh and Richburg are both those type of players. Flowers is the type of behemoth that the Giants haven't had on this line in a long time. I think his skillset was needed more than Scherff's on this Giants OL.
Peat has a 34.25" arm length so not much different than Flowers. But Flowers does have the overall length and upper body frame edge over Peat.
Depth does not exist because you have inactive players
Right now you have
Newhouse
Jerry
Reynolds
Jones
Mosely
Which 3 are active on Sundays
You also have to remember though, that Flowers is a full 2.5 years younger than Scherff.
Flowers reminds me a lot of DJ Fluker, who the Giants were supposedly very interested in when he came out of Alabama.
..and so was Flowers, do the Giants make the same selection?
What's your opinion?
You can see a tendency to lunge in the film. As to 0 sacks, part of that is that he is just so big that the average/above-average college RT/RDE couldn't get around him fast enough to record a sack. The relationship and response to Flaherty are going to be key. Send him to ballet class now so he becomes a bit lighter on his feet by camp!1 (: At least Reese didn't say he's got left tackle feet and put the Curse of Brewer on him.
As to depth, Eric makes the comment that stretch's list of depth: most are not NFL players, LOL. I would agree as to Reynolds, maybe Mosley (still have some hope, maybe even Newhouse. Jerry is depth.
And I have a hunch Brett Jones gives a run for the money to WR, maybe Pugh, that Jones is one tough SOB who is very motivated to adapt to NFL.
For me, tonight is when 2015 draft becomes intriguing.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Was anyone else excited when the Skins took Scherff thinking that maybe we would have a shot a Williams? I was.
Boylhart is a dooshbag.
Dan Graziano is reporting Giants had Ereck Flowers rated higher than Brandon Scherff, Kevin White, Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley.
Well, that does sound like something Reese would say..
I think it was a matter of all the elite were picked right in front of #9
But that "best prospect" was coming off a knee injury that some recover from and some never do. Not to mention he had been nicked up every year in college. If he will not be able to last 16 games plus postseason that is an issue. Not to mention what line will he run behind? Rather than Rogers/Taylor it would have been passing up Cordy Glenn for David Wilson if we went with Gurley
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
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In comment 12260045 jeff57 said:
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Pugh to guard.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
The Giants didn't take Flowers at 9 with the idea that he's a guard.
We'll see Mook. Flowers is pretty raw and he's not exactly the picture of technique. Do you "hide" him inside his first year and bookend him or do you immediately plug him in at RT? I'm not convinced of the latter. That's not Coughlin's way. He'll have them battle it out.
I guess Twitter does have its good points
Link - ( New Window )
We should be good to go now for a while. Young talented unit/core.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I know a lot of people on here think Colin Cowherd (who loves the giants) is a complete blowhard but he was raving about the Giants pick of Flowers this morning.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
Haha great post. I don't know shit about flowers, peat, or schreff. So if he is good enough for reese.... he's good enough for me.
I do wonder if they liked waynes. I really thought he was going to be the pick.
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Ereck Flowers: 5.33 40 (5.29 best), 4.91 20, 34 reps of 225, 475 squat, 286 power clean, 440 bench press, 26.5 vertical
Anthony Chickillo's results: 4.91-second average 40-yard dash (4.85 best 40 time in three tries), 4.38 20-yard shuttle, 30 reps of 225, 500 squat, 352 power clean, 385 bench press, 32.5 vertical
Denzel Perryman: 4.71 40 (4.65 best), 4.51 20, 33 reps of 225, 605 squat, 342 power clean, 435 bench press, 31 vertical
Clive Walford: 4.89 40 (4.83 best), 4.53 20, 22 reps of 225, 405 squat, 257 power clean, 350 bench press, 33 vertical
It's not like the Pugh situation where he was the 4th/5th guy at his position taken. Far more similar to last year where early drafts had Beckham going in the 20s and then later drafts had him moving up, presumably after the talking heads started hearing more and more from actual scouts.
Of course it's not like Pugh where he is the 4th/5th guy at his position. We were picking in the TOP TEN. Reese better have nailed this pick.
Most of BBI knows shit about OL play and thus can't either support or debunk the worth of the pick. Quite frankly, unless the guy is a colossal bust, they never will. If he's a 7+ year starter on a solid line, it will be worth it.
But I don't expect most people here to have that kind of patience. Christ, fuckwads like radar already have finely honed the tines of his pitchfork. Damn shame it can't somehow find a way into his anus.
I find it strange that I agree with a post that is this offensive.
*There is a good amount of speculation that Flowers is being targeted by NYG at #9. I havent head anything that gives that rumor credence and I just cant imagine how they could believe he is one of the top 10 overall players in this draft class. I wouldnt say that I dislike him. He is graded as a 2nd round caliber player and I do think he can start for a team, possibly even right away. Flowers has the size and power to factor as a RT day one. I cant watch a quarter of his on tape without seeing significant technique and mechanical issues though. It is pretty maddening. He can improve there with good coaching and a good approach, thus the upside may be a solid starting left tackle. Im just a little scared off by the fact there are more questions than answers with him.
Quote:
Pugh to guard.
No, he would be replacing John Jerry.
Yeah his pass pro is less than ideal even on the ball side but let's go ahead and pencil him in to replace Pugh. Brilliant analysis.
People get too caught up in draft slots. A players that won't be available in 5 or 6 picks is not a reach. And at that point, all the trade bait was exhausted (the QBs and the WRs)
Exactly.
Reese and Coughlin both in January did not exactly give Pugh a ringing endorsement at RT.
"It depends on how things shake out, if we can get a big dynamic right tackle via free agency or the draft, Pugh is a guy that fortunately can move in to guard, he can play left tackle, he can play right tackle, so there's a lot of places he can play for us," Reese said.
Coughlin also agreed with Reese that Pugh is the right tackle "until something better allows us to have some more flexibility," not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pugh's performance at that position.
I suspect the right side of the line is up for grabs and the Giants will look at protecting Flowers inside rather than outside with a TE. And he'll compete with Pugh ouside as well.
My point is that nothing is set right now and we're going to enjoy watching this play out.
I haven't seen many people think Flowers is a guard, besides possibly playing it early on.
I'd just move Pugh inside now where I think he could be excellent right from the start and put Flowers out at RT to start. We'll see what happens
I don't recall the Giants EVER spending a top 10 pick on the OL. If he turns out to be a HOF player, then it was a great pick. But if he only ends up being a solid starter - that is what you pick when you pick #20 - not when you pick #9. I can only pray this kid ends up as special an offensive lineman as Beckham is at WR - but generally I'm not a fan of taking OL in the top 10.