Excellent value even with the trade up. Fills a major need, should start from day one, plays the run very well and we all know this team had issues there. He can be great if he can improve his ball skills/coverage. Glad they went up and got the guy they wanted. They didn't screw around.
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
at #40, but even then there were certainly going to be better players on the board. Certainly don't want him for three picks. This team couldn't stop the run last year. At all. Goldman or Davis should have been the selection, and neither has a chance of getting to us in the third round.
at #40, but even then there were certainly going to be better players on the board. Certainly don't want him for three picks. This team couldn't stop the run last year. At all. Goldman or Davis should have been the selection, and neither has a chance of getting to us in the third round.
He will very much improve our run defense. Excellent against the run
LANDON COLLINS @ALLAMERICAN_2 7h7 hours ago
One thing I know draft day won't define me but will motivate me to prove the doubters wrong & confirm what I already know. #BamaStrong
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
because I'm borderline pissed. If I'm wrong, call me out and I'll eat crow but there were several other players I would've rather had and we could've waited til 40 to do it.
of Saban coached defensive players in the NFL is not a good one.
This was desperation at its finest.
That's the kind of stupidity people said about Jeff Tedford QBs as Aaron Rodgers slid down the draft.
Judge players on their own merits, not what different guys did before them. Don't like Collins? That's fine. But don't say you don't like him because Mark Barron sucked.
at #40, but even then there were certainly going to be better players on the board. Certainly don't want him for three picks. This team couldn't stop the run last year. At all. Goldman or Davis should have been the selection, and neither has a chance of getting to us in the third round.
He will very much improve our run defense. Excellent against the run
True, but he's lost in space way too much. Don't really care about the dropped INTs, but he has poor recognition in coverage. Don't see him covering TEs down the seam. Giants panicked after Randall went off the board in the first because of how badly they need a safety.
trading a 4th to move up for him with all the other good defenders on the board makes me think this team was desperate to add Safety talent. Can't blame them, the S depth was awful prior to this.
Collins isn't a centerfielder or that great vs. the pass, but I like the fact that he's a physical and versatile safety who can bring a lot of the same skills to the table that Rolle did.
Overall... Flowers + Collins in the 1st two rounds helps us a lot in the short-term and down the line.
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
The extra pick is a late 7th virtually meaningless
(I know I know Ahmad bradshaw)
is no better than a undrafted free agent and 3/4 of the 4th rounders don't work out. Basically gave up nothing for a safety we desperately needed. I am not a Reese fan but good move here.
This is a great pick -- Collins is a heck of a Football player and he's got speed and can lay the wood on -- I viewed him all along as an upper first rounder -- This is a terrific value
Yep. I'm not a fan of trade, but he was a captain and he's an absolutely fantastic special teams player. Him and Harris upgrade our kick coverage immensely.
Still he's essentially an in the box safety it's a lot to give up for that.
GREAT MOVE BY REESE!!!! With the additions of Selvie and Ellis we could afford to wait until the third round to add a defensive lineman, this guy was way too good to pass up considering where we landed him. He is an immediate starter.
Weren't people clamoring for him WITH OUR FIRST ROUND PICK?!!! Up until recently, he was being talked about as a top 20 pick, but now it's a bad move coz we lost a 4th & 7th? If the Giants had a first round grade on him, he's worth the trade. You wouldn't mind giving that up to move up in the first round, so if the grade matches, then the price is well worth it.
I'm excited. We've solidified our DBs and now we can look at DL for our 3rd rounder.
let the others duke it out, but Taylor is who we'd want at FS unless they add a FS (Eskridge) tomorrow.
That's what I was thinking, Jon. Behre is more of an in the box guy, it seems to me, while Taylor has more range. But I can see Spags pulling a lot of Safety blitzes with Collins.
a deep draft, so although unlikely, I hope we trade back in the third to get back the fourth. The bigger problem isn't the picks, especially the seventh round pick. It's missing out on Preston Smith, Eddie Goldman, Eli Harold, Carl Davis, OO, etc. All those players will be gone by the time we pick, and we need someone like that to help us up front to stop the run. We couldn't do that at all last year.
His intelligence, leadership, versatility and aggressiveness will be perfect for Spags. I'm not his biggest fan, but at this point, you can't go wrong. We're extremely desperate for a Safety and for leadership and Collins fills both.
Watch out for him going downhill because he'll blow you up
Awesome pick. Would rather give up the 4th to get a player like him than take our chances with a 4th round pick. The 4th round pick doesn't seem to agree with Reese :)
of Saban coached defensive players in the NFL is not a good one.
This was desperation at its finest.
That's the kind of stupidity people said about Jeff Tedford QBs as Aaron Rodgers slid down the draft.
Judge players on their own merits, not what different guys did before them. Don't like Collins? That's fine. But don't say you don't like him because Mark Barron sucked.
I remember some moaning last year about how LSU receivers don't show as pros.
Forget other positions. They absolutely, positively had to get at least one good Safety, and they got the best one left, a guy who could have gone in the middle of the first round.
The 7/245 pick that they got from Denver is pretty meaningless anyway, so don't sweat paying a little over what the chart says.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
..and can play up. You don't need two center fielders out there. I don't know why people are making it seem that way. We were very soft against the run last year. We're obviously trying to address it
We have to hear the computer GM's who watch a guys fucking highlight's and actually believe they know better then the Giants. Just ignore them, it happens every year. To land this player at a need position when people were talking about him for us with our 9th pick, I think this is a great pick, moving up is no problem when you land the guy you want.
but he's an absolute beast as a special teams gunner. Won the Alabama special teams player of the week umpteen times. With Harris it should really up our kick coverage teams.
I asked Eric today if he thought he was like a Polamalu. Didn't really answer that part, but clearly the Steelers thought he would fill a need for them.
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
If he was as useless as you're indicating, the Giants and Steelers - and their combined 10 Lombardi trophies - wouldn't have been vying for the 33rd pick to get him.
very good point. I guess when Reese went to Alabama pro day, we all thought it was to scout Cooper. I guess they were very impressed with Collins. I saw him on tape, he has Ronnie Lott stuff. :)
You're on top of it. Collins at SS and he probably gets the gig if they deploy a big nickel package, Behre should get some burn when they move Collins around. I do expect them to pick Eskridge or another FS tomorrow.
huge need, great value. Don't love giving up the 4th but if they feel he wasn't going to last then go get what you want. The Giants normally don't trade up unless they really like a guy.
very good point. I guess when Reese went to Alabama pro day, we all thought it was to scout Cooper. I guess they were very impressed with Collins. I saw him on tape, he has Ronnie Lott stuff. :)
blapre.. that's what I see too -- I think he's a lot like Ronnie Lott
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
Dude ypure insufferable. People said he gets lost deep, thats coachable. What you cant coach are his abilities vs. the run. And if he can keep Witten from catching that 10 yard seam, Im fine with it. He was arguably the best talent and also filled a need. How do you NOT like this pick?
He may not be a great cover guy, but, it's not like he's completely incapable of making plays on that end. Let's see what happens when he gets coached up. At the very least he is an asset inside the box, hopefully from Day 1.
Collins may have flaws, but what he does, he does very well and that's why he was considered a top 15 talent by various analysts throughout the process.
Also, there is nothing to say he cannot improve with good coaching and I trust Spags much more than any other coordinator we've had in recent memory to put our players in the best position to succeed.
afraid to hit someone. He wants to do that. It's hard to teach a guy to tackle well and this guy has the natural motivation to do it. I'd like to think it's easier to coach up his cover skills than it would be to turn a below average tackler into a great one.
you do know that he hits like a truck. He played in a scheme
We do know he's not a cover guy...he got smoked by Ole Miss. Even all the draft information from various sources consistently said the same thing about this guy...this is a Spagnuolo pick. I'm not mad, though. We're gonna be enjoying some hits for years to come between Collins and Berhe.
Some had the Giants selecting Collins at 9 for crying out loud. You've got to be happy with getting Collins at 33, and I'm much higher on Flowers than most. The kid is 20 and one of the strongest players in the draft. This is a heck of a start if you ask me.
don't forget, Giants are looking to stop the run, one of their biggest weaknesses. This guy is a terrific run stopping safety. I am so psyched. This draft is so exciting! Go Jerry. Wait until Witten gets his teeth rattled! lol
NFLDraftScout.com's Rob Rang and Dane Brugler: "Better working downhill when he can attack the action, but has shown improvement in pass coverage, learning from past mistakes and improving his awareness in the deep half of the field. Fluid in space and displays cornerback traits with his footwork, hips and transitional quickness to line up in man or zone coverage. At his best reading and reacting in the run game, attacking downhill like a physical missile with the technique and power to finish stops without hesitation."
that all their safeties are more in the box type. I don't think there's one on the team you'd want in single high coverage which of course limits your defensive versatility. They needed a rangy FS type.
We didn't even expect to get that 7th round pick. Denver was expected to keep Matt Prater when he came back from his suspension. We just traded our kicker to keep him away from Philly. It was a pleasant surprise when Denver kept him for the whole year, and we got that extra 7th. Turns out to be a bonus for us - that we didn't expect to have. And it was probably what let us outbid other teams.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 3m3 minutes ago
Marc Ross says Landon Collins was one of the best interviews they had at Combine. "Blew them away" w/football knowledge #Giants
Landon Collins, Alabama (6, 228lbs, 31 1/2 arms, 4.53 speed, 35" VJ, 4.33 SS, 7.38 3-C). Two year starter at SS. True junior entry. All-American. Ranked in PFFs top 10 in both run stop efficiency (when lined up inside 8 yards of scrimmage) and tackling efficiency v run. Only missed 6 tackles all year - pretty low considering he was in on 94 total tackles. Has better ball play skills when facing the action than many give him credit for (11 career PBU including 5 INTs). Played quite a bit of single high Safety but was abused in a few games when opponents put three receivers on one side of the field and then ran one of the patterns deep straight past him exposing tight hips in his turn and run (something evidenced by his big LB-like 3-C and SS times). Doesnt lay the lumber in the deep youd expect from a guy with his size. Teams looking for a box safety who can match-up with the TE in coverage will like him but hes a bad for for the Giants needs this year. Top 25 pick.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
I'd post it for you, but I'm not gonna. But go back and read Troy Polamalus draft scouting reports from 2003. They sound exactly like Collins'.
Maybe they question his coverage acumen but his ability to run with guys was never in question. He's one of the best athletes at the position ever.
I think the one guy you could point to is Kam Chancellor but part of what makes him so great is that his size allows him to matchup vs TEs so well. Collins is only 6'.
Again I hope I'm wrong but I don't like the player type for the Giants that high. Hopefully his coverage limitations have been oversold.
On here is absurd. Reese is again having a hell of a draft. We just filled by far our biggest need with the consensus best safety in the draft who was projected to go mid 1st round. Cheer up people, the giants are shaping up for playoff contention.
For me I am excited because it seems the Giants got 2 players they really liked and wanted. Flowers pick was up there quick and they gave up a 4th and 7th for Collins.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
So let's see....the Giants liked him enough to trade up for him, and I'm sure Spags had a hand in this decision. Trent Dilfer was RAVING about the pick, as was Todd McShay. McShay also said that he knows for a fact that another team had contacted Tennessee about trading up and it was for Collins.. That's just for starters...
On the other side, we have BigBlueCane and chris r. Hate the pick and say Collins sucks.
in the back end that can lay the lumber, it adds intimidation to your Defense.
The guy making the knockout hit that makes the highlight reels is a safety. Its not a CB or LB but usually a Safety.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
He'll be one defender that will knock the snot out of the quarterbacks running the spread option. Drafting Collins is just as much about our run defense as out pass defense. If the Giants had this kind of scouting report and conviction on Collins, i am glad they made this move.
RE: I am amazed that people don't like this pick...
Line is we need to get nastier on defense and we did.
He seems to be the type of hitter that receivers and ball carriers will want to know where he is becouse of how hard he hits, any distraction is a good thing.
shitting on the pick with fabricated reasons. Saban has a poor track record of developing defensive prospects? Mosley and Clinton Dix went in the 1st round last year. Donta Hightower and Marcellus Dareus would also disagree with your idiotic notion.
Collins,runs a 4.5 that is good speed for a safety. Btw, his coverage will improve with nfl coaching. Not that he is that bad anyway. This guy will be a stud and helps our runstopping right away.
Being the top rated safety this year doesn't mean a helluva lot. It's akin to being the best QB this year. A different year and both would be afterthoughts.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
in the back end that can lay the lumber, it adds intimidation to your Defense.
The guy making the knockout hit that makes the highlight reels is a safety. Its not a CB or LB but usually a Safety.
Yup
We had the worst two-way Running game in football last year
two-way meaning both offense and defense. We couldn't stop it and we couldn't do it.
Pretty much the definition of SOFT.
Adding a powerful RT type and monster in-the box S/nickel LBer both help try and fix that issue.
Both players have clear flaws that can be picked apart. But I like where the Giants' mindset was at for this draft. We needed to get tougher against the run and add some nastiness to the team.
Pre-draft measurables
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP
6 ft 0 in 228 lb 4.53 s 1.57 s 2.64 s 4.33 s 7.38 s 35 in 10 ft 0 in
Pre-draft measurables
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic
6 ft 2 3⁄8 in 230 lb 4.51 s 35 in 10 ft 1 in 11 reps 10
3]
You're not entirely wrong when you point out the safeties on the roster lack a pure FS, but there are a few rounds and several FS prospects left for NYG to consider.
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
Being the top rated safety this year doesn't mean a helluva lot. It's akin to being the best QB this year. A different year and both would be afterthoughts.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Read my last reply to you. You conveniently ignored it. Coughlin gushed about him. Dilfer gushed about him. McShay gushed about him.
I guess you know more than they do, right? Ah. Forget it. This is a lost cause.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
Your logic sucks.
More importantly, the Giants deemed him worthy for a trade up. From internet boards, "draft gurus", and the giants front office, they all agree that we got ourselves a really good player, but because BigBlueCane thinks he's very average, then we need to hate this pick =/
Being the top rated safety this year doesn't mean a helluva lot. It's akin to being the best QB this year. A different year and both would be afterthoughts.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Typical Cane fan. Everybody sucks especially opponents that kick their ass or aren't Canes.
You're not entirely wrong when you point out the safeties on the roster lack a pure FS, but there are a few rounds and several FS prospects left for NYG to consider.
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
Yeah we don't have one obvious candidate, but if you take the comments that people have made about Berhe, they think he has what it takes. I know that Prince raved about his speed and range.
At the end of the day (homage to 'Trel), Spags made players out of Gibril & Michael Johnson. I'm good with Landon, Cooper & Nat.
-always felt that good safeties have been had in 3 and 4.
but, this pushes cooper taylor to deep safety, lets hope he can do it.
in any case, lets see who shows up in 3 and hope that the new safety is a player.
my impetus has always been for the INTs players and the true free types. but...as always, I am willing to trust the team that these guys are better than I thought.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Taylor's instincts in space and ability to close were phenomenal. Collins isn't anywhere near that level, although the comparison isn't really fair, because few are.
I like the pick. I'd been looking at Odi and Preston Smith, but this fits nicely in both quality and need. I suspect that Collins will be far better than the nay-sayers predict.
in any case, its time to look at nate berhe and cooper taylor BBI profiles and think about who plays the deep spot:
''Nat Berhe, a 5th round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, played in all 16 games. Although he was mainly relegated to special teams, he did see some time on defense and finished the season with 10 tackles. Berhe lacks ideal size and speed, but he is a smart, aggressive competitor who plays hard all of the time. In college, Berhe made a ton of tackles against the run, but was not as active in pass defense.
Cooper Taylor was placed on Injured Reserve in August 2014 with a semasoid bone issue in his foot that required surgery. Cooper was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason. Cooper was selected in the 5th round of the 2013 NFL Draft by the Giants. A heart condition caused him to slip in the draft. Taylor has an excellent combination of size and athleticism. Taylor missed six games in 2013 with shoulder and hamstring injuries. He played in 10 games that year, serving almost exclusively on special teams.''
Like it or not, Collins was the consensus highest rated Safety in this draft. Pretty much every expert who has commented on the trade/pick since it was made views it as a major positive.
Is he perfect? No. Is coverage his strength, apparently not. But, this kid brings ALOT to the table and the value was excellent.
This is the kind of move that changes your Defense
An in the box safety changes your defense?
A so-fuckin-lutely!!!! Remember how many guys gained the edge for 10-15 yards on this defense last year? That won't be the case next season. He is an impact starter on defense and I'm fired up about the move.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Holy sh!t. This is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen even just on measurements. Sean Taylor was 6'3" and had great speed. He was a generational, prototype athlete at his position.
angles and peeking can be improved in a scheme for a full time football player. The kid can thump, aggressive in the box, smart and easy to coach from what I've heard. Good size, hard football player with something between the ears.
I like the pick. It's a first round value and a need filled. Can't complain at all. I think he makes an instant impact. He's got the melon to handle it. Good job Giants.
NYG signed a bunch of lunch pail type depth/special teamers this off season so maybe they felt this was the year to trade some picks for that player that fills a big need. We don't have to fill out the roster with so many draft picks. Special teams are set, etc...
Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
We had a full-blown crisis at safety, and no obvious way to fix it. Then, we get to the start of round #2, and what the Giants judge to be a high quality safety is sitting there.
Even if we overpaid slightly, and I admit I don't know enough to concede that, this was a massive, massive need filled.
Note that the next safety picked just got taken all the way down at 46, and Tartt is a small-school talent who certainly is unlikely to be ready to start right away, regardless of his upside.
RE: Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
Not sure what the point is. Collins is still the better player. I'm rooting for Cooper but he can't even stay healthy. The best ability is availability.
I was ust hoping that berhe and taylors angles ad INTs
the move is fine. Nfl.com profile (fwiw) says he could be a liability in coverage - a common theme from other sources but not the only view. Nor does it consider development esp given NYG saw a huge football IQ. Having a smart reliable S to line things up on the back end seems important, esp after losing Rolle. And physicality is never a bad thing esp with a sound tackler
If he's just a box safety with abv avg athleticism we might have found something similar later (Tartt) or an FA for less than 4+7, but that's the only critique and clearly not NYG's opinion. Certainly better for the S position than the CB-to-S experiments we've been considering
2.375 inches is the only measurable difference, if you think 2 lbs and 0.02 of a second is meaningful you are as crazy as the comparison to Collins and Taylor.
RE: Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
Sean Taylor was much faster than his combine time. You saw him play twice a year with the skins, you know that. He was looked at and still looked at as the physical prototype at the position. It's just a bizarre comparison.
On these haters, headhunter. They fail to realize this kid is going to get better in coverage, with nfl coaching. He is a weapon in spags defense. Great pick, a first rd. Talent
It sounds like he has excellent football intelligence & toughness
That's enormously important for a DB (or any defensive player). Also, he seems to have very comparable (or slightly better) combine numbers than Kam Chancellor. Chancellor measured 3 inches taller, 3 pounds heavier, and 1.5 inch longer arms. In the drills Collins was better just about across the board:
Landon Collins and Nat Berhe are going to head hunt in the secondary... now we'll have to see if they can cover.
^This. Seeing and diagnosing are not the same as being able to react in time. Collins just looks a guy who needs to keep everything in front of him to be successful.
some here after his career felt that Kenny Phillips was a reach in 1
however, having said for some many seasons that free safeties can be had in 3 and 4...now we have the third and 5th to look for one, unless you are satisfied going with the guys we have there.
Anyone who has insight on that...put it on the thread.
a guy who was considered to be mid to late first round talent and one of the better safeties in a weak class, who is well coached and fills a position of DIRE need, and who many were saying the Giants should draft in round one.. is now overrated and not worth giving up a fourth and seventh round pick for ???
that safeties with Landon's talent can be dynamic playmakers in a D if utilized properly by a smart DC.
This kid has a diverse enough skillset to be a flashy playmaker in our defense if utilized properly. With Spagnuolo manning the D, I have much more faith that will happen.
You don't have to be a great pure cover Safety to be a great one. Spags will have a plan for him and Im betting he will be very effective for this Defense year 1.
Also yet another great STer for Quinn with perhaps the best Special Teams player in the country. Quinn whose excuses should have run out 2-3 years ago will really have trouble justifying yet another abysmal ST performance.
I don't know if you are a real coach or not but I am surprised Bennett is not on your list. I like him a lot more then Anderson,who is also is good player with better size.
On one hand I am thrilled to get Collins. At one point, I thought he might have even been in play for the first round (I seem to have been very wrong on that one). I was hoping they would land him in round 2.
On the other hand, I do not like the idea of trading up to get him.
Somehow, that he has trouble covering slot receivers...
...has morphed into him being unable to cover anybody. Meanwhile he has demonstrated ability to cover RBs and TEs. But yeah, sure, what a crappy pick. Let's just ignore that he's a fist team AP All-American.
He's a SS. He's as big as one of our new FA LBs, faster too. Of course he will have trouble covering WRs. That's what FS's are for.
I said lets trade back into the bottom of the 1st with our 2nd and 4th ....
I knew the value would be there ... I was thinking a WR would fall @9 and we got OL with the trade up but this is just as good OL and S ... there are some nice players on the board still....I think we may end up with a OLB...
Eli Harold ... though I say take the flier on Gregory ... I think this was a major learning experience for him a REAL LIFE lesson
I honestly don't think another team will come as close as having as good a draft as the Giants through 2. So far, this is shaping up to be their best draft in a long time on paper. 2 picks and they have 2 immediate starters at positions of need.
I like Harold and he'd be a solid value in Round 3...
but Gregory is more talented, more productive and should be the pick.
No question he's more talented, but I bet Gregory isn't even on their board. Not after Hosley and Hill. I think we've pretty much given up on character risks. Gregory has been busted for pot three times, including just before the combine. He also apparently has some kind of "anxiety" issues.
RE: They had no choice. They did what they had to do.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
Now get a DT.
We've been 100% aligned, Red Dog, and I agree. Reese is doing this (and Pugh, WR, et. al) out of weakness, but they are trying to make it right. They waited too long and were misguided in many picks, but they have gotten religion. Amen to a DT; maybe they trade up again.
who fill a position of need? Sign me up. I honestly don't get those who don't like this pick. A 4th rounder is basically a crapshoot unless you're extremely lucky, but worth throwing away for only slight risk. All signs point to this kid being an above-average SS.
He's a thumper and a force down low yet his coverage skills are atrocious.
I think the draft overall is weak so I'll trust the Giants but he was a coverage liability in college. Did Auburn throw for 450+ yards or crazy number by attacking centerfield non-stop?
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
not to mention the 7th rd pick is the one from the Broncos, literally 10 picks before Mr Irrelevant, pretty much worthless. we'll add an extra UDFA to replace that pick. and still have our own 7th rounder which is higher. no big deal.
so the only real cost was the 4th rd pick, which it sounds like is 'fair value' according to that chart anyway
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
Some teams may think he's a first round talent... Idiot
and the way I see it Giants fans should be ecstatic about it. Would it have been better to have not given up three picks for the guy? Of course! But c'mon, we really had a need here and getting Collins in the second round is a great, great steal from where he's been projected to go.
Someone questioned whether it's fair to consider him a first round talent, seeing as he was only mocked to go there but really ended up in the second. To me the proof of his value lies in what the Giants gave up, and in the alleged other offers made for him. Clearly more than one team saw him at 33 as the top value there, by definition they had him rated as a first round pick.
When people crap on the pick saying it was a weak year for safety I wish to remind them that this has been a trend for quite some time. Every couple of years there are 1-2 safeties taken in the first. That's it. Take a look at the number of safeties picked in the first 3 rounds over the last five years and keep in mind that the league needs 64 starters at safety.
Keep in mind the dearth of real talent at the position in FA. If we wanted a solid starter at S we needed to either draft one high or overpay in FA, hurting our cap. I'm glad we went with one high.
Now, to the people who think he's going to be some man-coverage machine - I think you're wrong. Take a look at these three cones:
7.38
7.18
The first is our own Landon Collins at the combine.
The second is Brandon Scherff at his pro day.
Not saying I'd put Scherff in coverage, and his numbers were super-elite, but just giving you a bit of an idea that Collins has very good straight line speed but is likely to get turned around by the guys who run a 6.9 or lower three-cone.
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
You don't know where he was on the Board of teams that picked top 20 had they picked in the bottom 12
How can you not get excited for the first two picks? Big Frankenstein tackle that many if not most had going top ten and now another guy picked to go in round 1 and a position we were scared to death about going into the draft. This team had two needs and they were able to marry need with bpa not once but twice. I refuse to not get excited about these moves/picks. We have a nice young core of talent here. When is training camp.
he was talked about as mid to late 1st rounder so good value even it cost us a 4th and 7th. Still have 4 picks to go. Lets get the other Collins, La'el now
he's faced some of the best competition in the SEC, great special teams player, and a really good tackler, something we desperately need in the back end.
he's faced some of the best competition in the SEC, great special teams player, and a really good tackler, something we desperately need in the back end.
In the highlights video someone posted here he had a solo tackle for loss against Jeremy Hill which was one of the better tackles I've seen a safety make against a power RB
... from what I've seen this guy has a major attitude and is terrific in run support. If he could do everything he wouldn't be there for us. Cheer up and watch some of his highlights.
For those that would be happy with a two down LB here, keep in mind that Collins will probably play as many snaps as that player at dime LB alone. This is not even factoring in base packages where he plays a traditional role.
People fall in love with and hate guys they don't watch a whole lot
I'm not sure how great Collins is but I'm damn sure he is much better than Behre by miles. Yes we gave up something to get something if the Giants made the move last night everyone would say not a bad price to get a top 20 rated guy and move back into the 1st round. Is he going to solve all our problems on defense No, but he will help much more than anyone we had presently.
Lets not forget they made a trade to get someone they liked and needed lighting could strike twice maybe. I think Collins is too big at 228 for his body frame 217-220 should still bring plenty of power and add additional speed for the NFL. Guys remember these players are raw everything from this point on is a learning exercise which will test their ability to not repeat the same mistake.
you'd think that dropping 10 lbs and gaining a little more quickness would be worth it. his agility drill numbers at the combine were all bottom half at safety. Who knows.
The Titans traded their 33rd overall pick to the Giants, who gave up the 40th overall pick, as well as a fourth- and seventh-round pick. And with that 33rd selection, Big Blue selected Alabama safety Landon Collins. Collins isn't an elite cover safety (he's serviceable in that regard) but he's a true downhill thumper. With Antrel Rolle, Stevie Brown and Quintin Demps all leaving via free agency, the need at this position was glaring, and Collins is a very safe strong safety selection.
Charles Davis, NFL Media
Much more range than he gets credit for. Dont just paint him as strictly a box safety, although thats what his strength is. He can roam a little bit more in the mid-field range, you can play him a little bit deeper at times, he gives you that flexibility, and now you get an extremely motivated young man.
Bucky Brooks, NFL Media
Love the Giants pick. Collins has been dinged for his coverage skills, but he is much better in coverage than some have projected.
you'd think that dropping 10 lbs and gaining a little more quickness would be worth it. his agility drill numbers at the combine were all bottom half at safety. Who knows.
Guarantee you Coughlin will tell him to be around 215-220 not 228 which was his weight at the combine..
The Titans traded their 33rd overall pick to the Giants, who gave up the 40th overall pick, as well as a fourth- and seventh-round pick. And with that 33rd selection, Big Blue selected Alabama safety Landon Collins. Collins isn't an elite cover safety (he's serviceable in that regard) but he's a true downhill thumper. With Antrel Rolle, Stevie Brown and Quintin Demps all leaving via free agency, the need at this position was glaring, and Collins is a very safe strong safety selection.
Charles Davis, NFL Media
Much more range than he gets credit for. Dont just paint him as strictly a box safety, although thats what his strength is. He can roam a little bit more in the mid-field range, you can play him a little bit deeper at times, he gives you that flexibility, and now you get an extremely motivated young man.
Bucky Brooks, NFL Media
Love the Giants pick. Collins has been dinged for his coverage skills, but he is much better in coverage than some have projected.
Look, we needed a starting safety. Collins will be hungry to perform as he is self-motivated and likely motivated to show he is better than a 2nd round pick as well!
I love the fact he played against top competition with Alabama / SEC. He'll learn this defense and man the box against the run and against the short pass as well. Watch him have a superb camp and stop Dallas' game 1 run game inside and hold Witten down when he needs to. Witten is getting older and it began to show last year.
NFLDraftScout.com's Rob Rang and Dane Brugler: "Better working downhill when he can attack the action, but has shown improvement in pass coverage, learning from past mistakes and improving his awareness in the deep half of the field. Fluid in space and displays cornerback traits with his footwork, hips and transitional quickness to line up in man or zone coverage. At his best reading and reacting in the run game, attacking downhill like a physical missile with the technique and power to finish stops without hesitation."
I really question if there is anyone left that I am disappointed not having a chance in Round 4 to select. I have a feeling we can get a comparable player in Round 5
Swing and a miss on McCourtey ..
Reece did the right thing and pulled the trigger .
Never seen BBI this Happy after 3 Picks .
Can't wait to see Flowers ...
I really think you need to find safeties who are closer to CBs than LBs. That's why I liked Rowe a lot more.
The bigger S usually have issues in the NFL. Not all but most. There are some exceptions like Chancellor in SEA but there aren't many which is why we see people going back to Ronnie Lott for a comp for Collins.
Lott was much smaller. He was a 200lb with CB movement when he entered the NFL. Collins is much bigger.
Any comparison to Bob Sanders or Polamalu is way off. He isn't close to these guys who were 2 of the most explosive S to ever play football. Collins doesn't bring that kind of game. That's like comparing a very good college rush LB to LT.
Even with Collins, we still have a huge hole at S. Right now we can't match up unless we find something late or one of the CB conversions like Jackson work.
The thing to like about Collins is thinking about CHancellor and the impact he had in SEA. However, that impact came when surrounded by elite DBs and a very good pass rush.
I'm hopeful the guy can help instantly in that Grant role for Spags. Playing as a dime LB with 4 fast DBs could work well. He's has the size for it and he's a good tackler. He can also give us a pass rush boost as a blitzer.
Not thrilled with the pick but I liked that they were agressive to fill the huge need at this position. I still think we must find at least one capable coverage player at S before the start of the year. He may be on the roster already such as Jackson or Chykie Brown.
i don't follow why suddenly we needed to draft a CB playing safety
Collins' skillset is close to antrel rolle and kenny Phillips. Rolle wasn't some S with CB traits. he was a steel trap tackler and could play the middle of the field. Rolle could play slot in an injury pinch but you never actually wanted that.
Rolle was an elite CB prospect with exceptional quickness to mirror any receiver. That is not Collins. He couldn't play CB in the NFL.
For example, Rolle ran the 3 cone in 6.6. Collins ran his slower than some 300lbs at around 7.4.
This is the question about Collins. Can he match up and stick with NFL talent at reciever. It's a legit question when talking about a big S with his movement.
Collins is more Deon Grant. And hopefully more like CHancellor in how he will impact the Giants team
Rolle was an elite CB prospect with exceptional quickness to mirror any receiver. That is not Collins. He couldn't play CB in the NFL.
For example, Rolle ran the 3 cone in 6.6. Collins ran his slower than some 300lbs at around 7.4.
This is the question about Collins. Can he match up and stick with NFL talent at reciever. It's a legit question when talking about a big S with his movement.
Collins is more Deon Grant. And hopefully more like CHancellor in how he will impact the Giants team
the whole reason Rolle is playing S is because he can't cover at an NFL CB level. if he had those elite cover skills he would never have position switched. the few times Rolle has had to play more of a CB role, it hasn't been pretty.In Collins case, he probably has to slim down from 228.
had a knee injury as a rookie. Even after the injury he had exceptional movement. He didn't move to S because he couldn't cover. He was a great football player who had the ability to move to the position.
He's just a different player than Collins. It's a terrible comp.
will be going forward and hitting people. That is what he does best. Your starting free safety may already be on the roster in Taylor, Bennett Jackson, or a converted CB. They probably like a CB/S type in rd 5 today.
We won the Super Bowl with a 5th round guy like James Butler and Gibril Wilson, so let's see what they come up with.
Why would they have moved him to a less valuable position
if they had a great Corner on their hands? that doesn't make any sense. When the giants got him as a free agent, the criticism was that he gave up deep plays trying to gamble for picks and was more effective at the line. And that was demonstrated here too.
So its weird to me to see people retroactivey paint Rolle as a brilliant cover guy when he wasn't.
The giants knee his limitations and put him in a role that maximized his ability. which they will do for Collins too.
RE: Why would they have moved him to a less valuable position
if they had a great Corner on their hands? that doesn't make any sense. When the giants got him as a free agent, the criticism was that he gave up deep plays trying to gamble for picks and was more effective at the line. And that was demonstrated here too.
So its weird to me to see people retroactivey paint Rolle as a brilliant cover guy when he wasn't.
The giants knee his limitations and put him in a role that maximized his ability. which they will do for Collins too.
Except when they had to play him at slot CB which he wasn't ever good at -- I still have nightmares of Cole Beasley vs. Rolle.
Beasley is very quick. You could find him getting open on any player. It's a weak point to even bring it up.
Are you comparing Collins to an older Rolle? Is that what people mean when they make that comparison? Even that is a bad comp because they are much different players. Collins did not play that game in college and he won't in the nfl either
Beasley is very quick. You could find him getting open on any player. It's a weak point to even bring it up.
Are you comparing Collins to an older Rolle? Is that what people mean when they make that comparison? Even that is a bad comp because they are much different players. Collins did not play that game in college and he won't in the nfl either
My point is Rolle was never a good man cover guy, even if he did possess the physical skillset to do so. He wasn't good in the slot, was never comfortable doing it, and Fewell tried to shoehorn him into that role throughout his Giants career.
The positives for Rolle do sound a lot like the positives for Collins - sure, steady tackler, captain type, better coming forward than backwards, intelligent player, competes hard every game.
Played there because we lost every cb on he roster.
Rolle was very good in pass coverage. Excellent for a safety going back forward or sideways. It didn't matter. In space he's much different than Collins and that includes tackling too.
Bill, I'm hoping for the best but I do see it in a different role than Rolle. I prefer Rowe because he is a Rolle-type. We'll see how it goes. Plenty of ways to use Collins.
I do think we still need more at S.
I expect Collins to come in and be agood player right away
Collins' skillset is close to antrel rolle and kenny Phillips. Rolle wasn't some S with CB traits. he was a steel trap tackler and could play the middle of the field. Rolle could play slot in an injury pinch but you never actually wanted that.
Both Rolle and Phillips had much better deep coverage ability.
Collins is a safety who would have been much better 10 years ago when instinctive down hill thumpers like John Lynch could excel.
His biggest advantage will never ever be noticed....if I am a running QB or a read option or spread formation option to run QB....I think twice now. We face exactly that with Washington and Philadelphia and lost a Jacksonville game last year to a guy who took off down the middle of the field when we covered his Wr options. Aaron Rodgers and Wilson also pick up yardage in situations and parts of the field that a Collins might make them more cautious. But we will not see that.
Played there because we lost every cb on he roster.
Rolle was very good in pass coverage. Excellent for a safety going back forward or sideways. It didn't matter. In space he's much different than Collins and that includes tackling too.
Bill, I'm hoping for the best but I do see it in a different role than Rolle. I prefer Rowe because he is a Rolle-type. We'll see how it goes. Plenty of ways to use Collins.
I do think we still need more at S.
I agree we need more at S, and I'd like to see some slot corners as well. Not sure we have enough after DRC/Prince/McBride.
was Collins' apparent lack of coverage ability something that was routinely exploited by the opposition? Was he often called upon to do something he simply couldn't do, to the benefit of the opposing offense?
I'm verry excited about this pick - perfect match of need and ability
This is beautiful. Love it!
Wonder what the big nickel looks like now.
I hope his mom likes us :P
This was desperation at its finest.
We'll see how it works out. Definite need pick, but they obviously liked him a lot at the same time otherwise you don't trade up
He will very much improve our run defense. Excellent against the run
One thing I know draft day won't define me but will motivate me to prove the doubters wrong & confirm what I already know. #BamaStrong
What's not to like?
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
This was desperation at its finest.
McShay said that he knows for a fact that at least one other team was trying to trade with Tennessee for Collins. I guess they were desperate too?
This was desperation at its finest.
That's the kind of stupidity people said about Jeff Tedford QBs as Aaron Rodgers slid down the draft.
Judge players on their own merits, not what different guys did before them. Don't like Collins? That's fine. But don't say you don't like him because Mark Barron sucked.
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at #40, but even then there were certainly going to be better players on the board. Certainly don't want him for three picks. This team couldn't stop the run last year. At all. Goldman or Davis should have been the selection, and neither has a chance of getting to us in the third round.
He will very much improve our run defense. Excellent against the run
True, but he's lost in space way too much. Don't really care about the dropped INTs, but he has poor recognition in coverage. Don't see him covering TEs down the seam. Giants panicked after Randall went off the board in the first because of how badly they need a safety.
Collins isn't a centerfielder or that great vs. the pass, but I like the fact that he's a physical and versatile safety who can bring a lot of the same skills to the table that Rolle did.
Overall... Flowers + Collins in the 1st two rounds helps us a lot in the short-term and down the line.
The extra pick is a late 7th virtually meaningless
(I know I know Ahmad bradshaw)
and man do we need a stud safety!
And the answer is a yes to me.
Please find a new defense to use that has fewer holes.
Collins isn't very good, that will become obvious once he's no longer protected by Saban's scheme.
We overpaid for him.
Yep. I'm not a fan of trade, but he was a captain and he's an absolutely fantastic special teams player. Him and Harris upgrade our kick coverage immensely.
Still he's essentially an in the box safety it's a lot to give up for that.
You have a player who performed at a high level at the highest level of collegiate competition and he fills a huge need. I'm pretty happy about this.
I'm excited. We've solidified our DBs and now we can look at DL for our 3rd rounder.
An in the box safety changes your defense?
That's what I was thinking, Jon. Behre is more of an in the box guy, it seems to me, while Taylor has more range. But I can see Spags pulling a lot of Safety blitzes with Collins.
To get a guy like that you have to give something up.
Collins and Behre may be a nice duo.
Gotta be.
Please find a new defense to use that has fewer holes.
Collins isn't very good, that will become obvious once he's no longer protected by Saban's scheme.
We overpaid for him.
Spags laughs at your ignorance and disrespect.
Watch out for him going downhill because he'll blow you up
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of Saban coached defensive players in the NFL is not a good one.
This was desperation at its finest.
That's the kind of stupidity people said about Jeff Tedford QBs as Aaron Rodgers slid down the draft.
Judge players on their own merits, not what different guys did before them. Don't like Collins? That's fine. But don't say you don't like him because Mark Barron sucked.
I remember some moaning last year about how LSU receivers don't show as pros.
The 7/245 pick that they got from Denver is pretty meaningless anyway, so don't sweat paying a little over what the chart says.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
Now get a DT.
Please name the last safety who was not good vs the pass who was an impact player. Thanks.
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
This will really help that position.
Plus, he's a great special teams player.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm a Giant baby 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾💯💯💯 #LetsGo
I asked Eric today if he thought he was like a Polamalu. Didn't really answer that part, but clearly the Steelers thought he would fill a need for them.
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
If he was as useless as you're indicating, the Giants and Steelers - and their combined 10 Lombardi trophies - wouldn't have been vying for the 33rd pick to get him.
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This is the kind of move that changes your Defense
An in the box safety changes your defense?
Yes. Next question.
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changes your Defense
Please name the last safety who was not good vs the pass who was an impact player. Thanks.
Has anyone said he's POOR against the pass? Actually people have been falling over themselves to say he has more range than you might think.
Don't you think your assumption might be sloppily deduced from his pre-draft characterization as an in-the-box safety?
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
Logic makes little sense. Bottom line is that safeties like him don't go in the 1st round, they go in the 2nd.
Tom Coughlin said the Giants had a first-round grade on Landon Collins.
Tom Coughlin: "Couldn't be a better situation for us. ... He's very skilled. He's very motivated."
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Tom Coughlin said the Giants had a first-round grade on Landon Collins.
Nice to see Tom got in before Reese said it.
In this case I think it's probably right.
Sanders (like Troy P) was fast as fuck and made plays all over the field. This guy isn't that fast.
I'm hoping I'm wrong of course but I don't like this pick. I
blapre.. that's what I see too -- I think he's a lot like Ronnie Lott
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
Dude ypure insufferable. People said he gets lost deep, thats coachable. What you cant coach are his abilities vs. the run. And if he can keep Witten from catching that 10 yard seam, Im fine with it. He was arguably the best talent and also filled a need. How do you NOT like this pick?
Especially on defense.
Coughlin said of second-round pick, "I was anxious that it would be a defensive player."
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Coughlin on paying the 3-pick price for Landon Collins: "If you want something and it's above you, you've got to give it up."
Would be incredible, just not sure where Gregory lines up for the GMEN.
Don't count Taylor out yet.
One thing I know draft day won't define me but will motivate me to prove the doubters wrong & confirm what I already know. #BamaStrong
And Spags likes to send the safeties.
Also, there is nothing to say he cannot improve with good coaching and I trust Spags much more than any other coordinator we've had in recent memory to put our players in the best position to succeed.
We do know he's not a cover guy...he got smoked by Ole Miss. Even all the draft information from various sources consistently said the same thing about this guy...this is a Spagnuolo pick. I'm not mad, though. We're gonna be enjoying some hits for years to come between Collins and Berhe.
BPA - gravy baby
Especially on defense.
Eh. i don't know how true that is. nobody complaining about Clinton-Dix, Eddie Lacy, Julio Jones or marcel dareus.
If this guy was as good as people thought he was, Someone would have grabbed him yesterday.
So everybody not drafted in the top 32 sucks, huh?
I remember people saying the same thing last year when they were whining about the OBJ pick. "If he's so good, why did so many teams pass him up?".
It's ridiculous reasoning.
Chris R just got served LOL.
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made the Colts Defense fearsome. A big hitter on the back end is a huge asset
Sanders (like Troy P) was fast as fuck and made plays all over the field. This guy isn't that fast.
I'm hoping I'm wrong of course but I don't like this pick. I
Well, radar doesn't like the pick so.......I'm sold on the move!
Marc Ross says Landon Collins was one of the best interviews they had at Combine. "Blew them away" w/football knowledge #Giants
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Troy Polamula
Chris R just got served LOL.
Ronnie Lott played 25 years ago. The game has changed dramatically since then.
Try could play deep and ran a lot lot better than Collins.
Two very good players at 1,2 is fine. if Flowers and Collins were both top ten on their value boards, then we hit a home run.
Landon Collins, Alabama (6, 228lbs, 31 1/2 arms, 4.53 speed, 35" VJ, 4.33 SS, 7.38 3-C). Two year starter at SS. True junior entry. All-American. Ranked in PFFs top 10 in both run stop efficiency (when lined up inside 8 yards of scrimmage) and tackling efficiency v run. Only missed 6 tackles all year - pretty low considering he was in on 94 total tackles. Has better ball play skills when facing the action than many give him credit for (11 career PBU including 5 INTs). Played quite a bit of single high Safety but was abused in a few games when opponents put three receivers on one side of the field and then ran one of the patterns deep straight past him exposing tight hips in his turn and run (something evidenced by his big LB-like 3-C and SS times). Doesnt lay the lumber in the deep youd expect from a guy with his size. Teams looking for a box safety who can match-up with the TE in coverage will like him but hes a bad for for the Giants needs this year. Top 25 pick.
:)
Chris r always gets served btw.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
What's your evidence?
Maybe they question his coverage acumen but his ability to run with guys was never in question. He's one of the best athletes at the position ever.
I think the one guy you could point to is Kam Chancellor but part of what makes him so great is that his size allows him to matchup vs TEs so well. Collins is only 6'.
Again I hope I'm wrong but I don't like the player type for the Giants that high. Hopefully his coverage limitations have been oversold.
did they not bring in small fast LBs known for coverage? Williams was the guy they designated for TE assignments last year.
I would love for Henry Anderson DE Stanford to be available in 3rd round.
I wouldn't mind if we took a FS in the third round either. We need TWO starting Safeties. Now we have one. We can't rely on Berhe or Taylor.
But Florida had none, TAMU benched their starter, most everyone else was replacing someone.
For me I am excited because it seems the Giants got 2 players they really liked and wanted. Flowers pick was up there quick and they gave up a 4th and 7th for Collins.
But some mocks say he has coverage issues, so yeah, Giants should have passed on 1st round talent in the 2nd round.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
So let's see....the Giants liked him enough to trade up for him, and I'm sure Spags had a hand in this decision. Trent Dilfer was RAVING about the pick, as was Todd McShay. McShay also said that he knows for a fact that another team had contacted Tennessee about trading up and it was for Collins.. That's just for starters...
On the other side, we have BigBlueCane and chris r. Hate the pick and say Collins sucks.
Whichever side to choose...
The guy making the knockout hit that makes the highlight reels is a safety. Its not a CB or LB but usually a Safety.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
Your logic sucks.
But some mocks say he has coverage issues, so yeah, Giants should have passed on 1st round talent in the 2nd round.
You know he's a first round talent how? Because of the mocks?
Now let's get the OL Collins on round 3 :)
:)
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And end up with 3 players who at one point were projected top10
Would be incredible, just not sure where Gregory lines up for the GMEN.
Giants aren't the type of organization to bring in a head case.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
The guy making the knockout hit that makes the highlight reels is a safety. Its not a CB or LB but usually a Safety.
Yup
Pretty much the definition of SOFT.
Adding a powerful RT type and monster in-the box S/nickel LBer both help try and fix that issue.
Both players have clear flaws that can be picked apart. But I like where the Giants' mindset was at for this draft. We needed to get tougher against the run and add some nastiness to the team.
Pre-draft measurables
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP
6 ft 0 in 228 lb 4.53 s 1.57 s 2.64 s 4.33 s 7.38 s 35 in 10 ft 0 in
Pre-draft measurables
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic
6 ft 2 3⁄8 in 230 lb 4.51 s 35 in 10 ft 1 in 11 reps 10
3]
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people have seen a good amount of Collins and are going on more than just internet mocks and write ups.. but whatever.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Read my last reply to you. You conveniently ignored it. Coughlin gushed about him. Dilfer gushed about him. McShay gushed about him.
I guess you know more than they do, right? Ah. Forget it. This is a lost cause.
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so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
Your logic sucks.
More importantly, the Giants deemed him worthy for a trade up. From internet boards, "draft gurus", and the giants front office, they all agree that we got ourselves a really good player, but because BigBlueCane thinks he's very average, then we need to hate this pick =/
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Typical Cane fan. Everybody sucks especially opponents that kick their ass or aren't Canes.
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
Yeah we don't have one obvious candidate, but if you take the comments that people have made about Berhe, they think he has what it takes. I know that Prince raved about his speed and range.
At the end of the day (homage to 'Trel), Spags made players out of Gibril & Michael Johnson. I'm good with Landon, Cooper & Nat.
but, this pushes cooper taylor to deep safety, lets hope he can do it.
in any case, lets see who shows up in 3 and hope that the new safety is a player.
my impetus has always been for the INTs players and the true free types. but...as always, I am willing to trust the team that these guys are better than I thought.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Taylor's instincts in space and ability to close were phenomenal. Collins isn't anywhere near that level, although the comparison isn't really fair, because few are.
I like the pick. I'd been looking at Odi and Preston Smith, but this fits nicely in both quality and need. I suspect that Collins will be far better than the nay-sayers predict.
:)
Alright wise acre, one more quip and the jeans are MINE
And no 4th round pick to screw up is probably a good thing.
This is the 'Trell replacement and the new enforcer in the middle. I'm surprised, but happy.
in any case, its time to look at nate berhe and cooper taylor BBI profiles and think about who plays the deep spot:
''Nat Berhe, a 5th round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, played in all 16 games. Although he was mainly relegated to special teams, he did see some time on defense and finished the season with 10 tackles. Berhe lacks ideal size and speed, but he is a smart, aggressive competitor who plays hard all of the time. In college, Berhe made a ton of tackles against the run, but was not as active in pass defense.
Cooper Taylor was placed on Injured Reserve in August 2014 with a semasoid bone issue in his foot that required surgery. Cooper was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason. Cooper was selected in the 5th round of the 2013 NFL Draft by the Giants. A heart condition caused him to slip in the draft. Taylor has an excellent combination of size and athleticism. Taylor missed six games in 2013 with shoulder and hamstring injuries. He played in 10 games that year, serving almost exclusively on special teams.''
Is he perfect? No. Is coverage his strength, apparently not. But, this kid brings ALOT to the table and the value was excellent.
He is immediately the best safety on the roster.
Bravo!
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This is the kind of move that changes your Defense
An in the box safety changes your defense?
A so-fuckin-lutely!!!! Remember how many guys gained the edge for 10-15 yards on this defense last year? That won't be the case next season. He is an impact starter on defense and I'm fired up about the move.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Holy sh!t. This is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen even just on measurements. Sean Taylor was 6'3" and had great speed. He was a generational, prototype athlete at his position.
A better comparison physically is Roy Williams.
I like the pick. It's a first round value and a need filled. Can't complain at all. I think he makes an instant impact. He's got the melon to handle it. Good job Giants.
Even if we overpaid slightly, and I admit I don't know enough to concede that, this was a massive, massive need filled.
Note that the next safety picked just got taken all the way down at 46, and Tartt is a small-school talent who certainly is unlikely to be ready to start right away, regardless of his upside.
Not sure what the point is. Collins is still the better player. I'm rooting for Cooper but he can't even stay healthy. The best ability is availability.
not to devalue the new kid, as a run defender and hard hitting zone guy.
but, if you want lots of INTs, you get kids who had them in college.
it is not nearly as easy to coach that up as some seem to think.
and- if you want to let the corners play simple cover, you might still want an INT safety deep.
the draft is not over.
If he's just a box safety with abv avg athleticism we might have found something similar later (Tartt) or an FA for less than 4+7, but that's the only critique and clearly not NYG's opinion. Certainly better for the S position than the CB-to-S experiments we've been considering
NFL.com Collins Profile - ( New Window )
2.375 inches is the only measurable difference, if you think 2 lbs and 0.02 of a second is meaningful you are as crazy as the comparison to Collins and Taylor.
Sean Taylor was much faster than his combine time. You saw him play twice a year with the skins, you know that. He was looked at and still looked at as the physical prototype at the position. It's just a bizarre comparison.
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changes your Defense
Please name the last safety who was not good vs the pass who was an impact player. Thanks.
Kam Chancellor. Troy Polamaul was not considered good against the pass either, and actually played in the box most of the time. So there are 2 there.
Looking forward to seeing some great run support.
Fuckin hell, some of you guys who shit on picks like this are EXACTLY where you should be. In the stands and on a message board.
Phillips had elite coverage skills. Weird comparison to a guy who is apparently pedestrian there.
Chancellor
3 Cone - 7.36
40 yd - 4.69
10 yd - 1.65
vert - 32
broad - 9'8
shuttle - 4.41
Collins
3 Cone - 7.38
40 yd - 4.53
10 yd - 1.57
vert - 35
broad - 10'
shuttle - 4.33
^This. Seeing and diagnosing are not the same as being able to react in time. Collins just looks a guy who needs to keep everything in front of him to be successful.
He was reliable and hit hard, which was very good, but value wise, meh that year.
Ah, my apologies
and had little to do with Collins
Going to help us and has played against the stars shining in our league
right now like Beckham etc should be fine against older NFL has beens
Anyone who has insight on that...put it on the thread.
I said the same prior to KP pick and it turned out.
however, the 3rd round is usually good for this so....
This kid has a diverse enough skillset to be a flashy playmaker in our defense if utilized properly. With Spagnuolo manning the D, I have much more faith that will happen.
You don't have to be a great pure cover Safety to be a great one. Spags will have a plan for him and Im betting he will be very effective for this Defense year 1.
Also yet another great STer for Quinn with perhaps the best Special Teams player in the country. Quinn whose excuses should have run out 2-3 years ago will really have trouble justifying yet another abysmal ST performance.
Well, I'm back and I'm just hoping he's NOT anything like the guy who introduced him as the pick for the Giants -Shaun Williams ...
'member, that guy - the one who had pure disdain for the ball !
You just can't do that very often.
You cannot question the need these 2 guys fill.
Chris Conley
Tyler Lockett
Jalean Strong
HENRY ANDERSON
Adrian Amos (though maybe in the fourth)
David Johnson
Tevin Coleman
Gregory
On the other hand, I do not like the idea of trading up to get him.
He's a SS. He's as big as one of our new FA LBs, faster too. Of course he will have trouble covering WRs. That's what FS's are for.
I knew the value would be there ... I was thinking a WR would fall @9 and we got OL with the trade up but this is just as good OL and S ... there are some nice players on the board still....I think we may end up with a OLB...
Eli Harold ... though I say take the flier on Gregory ... I think this was a major learning experience for him a REAL LIFE lesson
No question he's more talented, but I bet Gregory isn't even on their board. Not after Hosley and Hill. I think we've pretty much given up on character risks. Gregory has been busted for pot three times, including just before the combine. He also apparently has some kind of "anxiety" issues.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
Now get a DT.
We've been 100% aligned, Red Dog, and I agree. Reese is doing this (and Pugh, WR, et. al) out of weakness, but they are trying to make it right. They waited too long and were misguided in many picks, but they have gotten religion. Amen to a DT; maybe they trade up again.
I think the draft overall is weak so I'll trust the Giants but he was a coverage liability in college. Did Auburn throw for 450+ yards or crazy number by attacking centerfield non-stop?
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So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
not to mention the 7th rd pick is the one from the Broncos, literally 10 picks before Mr Irrelevant, pretty much worthless. we'll add an extra UDFA to replace that pick. and still have our own 7th rounder which is higher. no big deal.
so the only real cost was the 4th rd pick, which it sounds like is 'fair value' according to that chart anyway
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
Some teams may think he's a first round talent... Idiot
Someone questioned whether it's fair to consider him a first round talent, seeing as he was only mocked to go there but really ended up in the second. To me the proof of his value lies in what the Giants gave up, and in the alleged other offers made for him. Clearly more than one team saw him at 33 as the top value there, by definition they had him rated as a first round pick.
When people crap on the pick saying it was a weak year for safety I wish to remind them that this has been a trend for quite some time. Every couple of years there are 1-2 safeties taken in the first. That's it. Take a look at the number of safeties picked in the first 3 rounds over the last five years and keep in mind that the league needs 64 starters at safety.
Keep in mind the dearth of real talent at the position in FA. If we wanted a solid starter at S we needed to either draft one high or overpay in FA, hurting our cap. I'm glad we went with one high.
Now, to the people who think he's going to be some man-coverage machine - I think you're wrong. Take a look at these three cones:
7.38
7.18
The first is our own Landon Collins at the combine.
The second is Brandon Scherff at his pro day.
Not saying I'd put Scherff in coverage, and his numbers were super-elite, but just giving you a bit of an idea that Collins has very good straight line speed but is likely to get turned around by the guys who run a 6.9 or lower three-cone.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
You don't know where he was on the Board of teams that picked top 20 had they picked in the bottom 12
Collins is WAY better than Garnes ever hoped to be.
Spags needs to make a statement. I think he thinks he has perhaps a Polamalu or Sean Taylor type that helps stop the run and also the option.
He looks another linebacker out there in the box. Very versatile player.
Specials.
Captain and All American on Alabama and their SEC schedule.
And Need of course.
All this for a forth and what, the extra pick Denver threw us for Prater?
A kicker?
I'm all in.
but, if you want lots of INTs, you get kids who had them in college.
it is not nearly as easy to coach that up as some seem to think
good post to the 8:28. If it were so easy, Collins wouldn't find himself lost in space. Nonetheless, on balance, I like the pick
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be the best deep S on the team too. he's not earl thomas or ed reed but he's pretty similar to kenny phillips who had ZERO problems playing deep
Phillips had elite coverage skills.
Holy revisionist history.
no.
KP's draft rap was that he would be a solid but unspectacular NFL starter.
He had great range. He was not an elite coverage skill guy.
This was desperation at its finest.
I always find the worst posts are when people make their opinions on prospects based on previous players from that school or coach.
In the highlights video someone posted here he had a solo tackle for loss against Jeremy Hill which was one of the better tackles I've seen a safety make against a power RB
Lets not forget they made a trade to get someone they liked and needed lighting could strike twice maybe. I think Collins is too big at 228 for his body frame 217-220 should still bring plenty of power and add additional speed for the NFL. Guys remember these players are raw everything from this point on is a learning exercise which will test their ability to not repeat the same mistake.
The Titans traded their 33rd overall pick to the Giants, who gave up the 40th overall pick, as well as a fourth- and seventh-round pick. And with that 33rd selection, Big Blue selected Alabama safety Landon Collins. Collins isn't an elite cover safety (he's serviceable in that regard) but he's a true downhill thumper. With Antrel Rolle, Stevie Brown and Quintin Demps all leaving via free agency, the need at this position was glaring, and Collins is a very safe strong safety selection.
Charles Davis, NFL Media
Much more range than he gets credit for. Dont just paint him as strictly a box safety, although thats what his strength is. He can roam a little bit more in the mid-field range, you can play him a little bit deeper at times, he gives you that flexibility, and now you get an extremely motivated young man.
Bucky Brooks, NFL Media
Love the Giants pick. Collins has been dinged for his coverage skills, but he is much better in coverage than some have projected.
Guarantee you Coughlin will tell him to be around 215-220 not 228 which was his weight at the combine..
The Titans traded their 33rd overall pick to the Giants, who gave up the 40th overall pick, as well as a fourth- and seventh-round pick. And with that 33rd selection, Big Blue selected Alabama safety Landon Collins. Collins isn't an elite cover safety (he's serviceable in that regard) but he's a true downhill thumper. With Antrel Rolle, Stevie Brown and Quintin Demps all leaving via free agency, the need at this position was glaring, and Collins is a very safe strong safety selection.
Charles Davis, NFL Media
Much more range than he gets credit for. Dont just paint him as strictly a box safety, although thats what his strength is. He can roam a little bit more in the mid-field range, you can play him a little bit deeper at times, he gives you that flexibility, and now you get an extremely motivated young man.
Bucky Brooks, NFL Media
Love the Giants pick. Collins has been dinged for his coverage skills, but he is much better in coverage than some have projected.
I love the fact he played against top competition with Alabama / SEC. He'll learn this defense and man the box against the run and against the short pass as well. Watch him have a superb camp and stop Dallas' game 1 run game inside and hold Witten down when he needs to. Witten is getting older and it began to show last year.
Our FS will be C. Taylor - watch.
Love this pick.
Love this pick.
Guaranteed those tun blind eye to his coverage skills don't watch college football.
That said, teams will scheme to put a top WR in motion to force Collins to cover them one on one, and when that happens watch out.
Reece did the right thing and pulled the trigger .
Never seen BBI this Happy after 3 Picks .
Can't wait to see Flowers ...
The bigger S usually have issues in the NFL. Not all but most. There are some exceptions like Chancellor in SEA but there aren't many which is why we see people going back to Ronnie Lott for a comp for Collins.
Lott was much smaller. He was a 200lb with CB movement when he entered the NFL. Collins is much bigger.
Any comparison to Bob Sanders or Polamalu is way off. He isn't close to these guys who were 2 of the most explosive S to ever play football. Collins doesn't bring that kind of game. That's like comparing a very good college rush LB to LT.
Even with Collins, we still have a huge hole at S. Right now we can't match up unless we find something late or one of the CB conversions like Jackson work.
The thing to like about Collins is thinking about CHancellor and the impact he had in SEA. However, that impact came when surrounded by elite DBs and a very good pass rush.
I'm hopeful the guy can help instantly in that Grant role for Spags. Playing as a dime LB with 4 fast DBs could work well. He's has the size for it and he's a good tackler. He can also give us a pass rush boost as a blitzer.
Not thrilled with the pick but I liked that they were agressive to fill the huge need at this position. I still think we must find at least one capable coverage player at S before the start of the year. He may be on the roster already such as Jackson or Chykie Brown.
For example, Rolle ran the 3 cone in 6.6. Collins ran his slower than some 300lbs at around 7.4.
This is the question about Collins. Can he match up and stick with NFL talent at reciever. It's a legit question when talking about a big S with his movement.
Collins is more Deon Grant. And hopefully more like CHancellor in how he will impact the Giants team
For example, Rolle ran the 3 cone in 6.6. Collins ran his slower than some 300lbs at around 7.4.
This is the question about Collins. Can he match up and stick with NFL talent at reciever. It's a legit question when talking about a big S with his movement.
Collins is more Deon Grant. And hopefully more like CHancellor in how he will impact the Giants team
the whole reason Rolle is playing S is because he can't cover at an NFL CB level. if he had those elite cover skills he would never have position switched. the few times Rolle has had to play more of a CB role, it hasn't been pretty.In Collins case, he probably has to slim down from 228.
He's just a different player than Collins. It's a terrible comp.
We won the Super Bowl with a 5th round guy like James Butler and Gibril Wilson, so let's see what they come up with.
So its weird to me to see people retroactivey paint Rolle as a brilliant cover guy when he wasn't.
The giants knee his limitations and put him in a role that maximized his ability. which they will do for Collins too.
So its weird to me to see people retroactivey paint Rolle as a brilliant cover guy when he wasn't.
The giants knee his limitations and put him in a role that maximized his ability. which they will do for Collins too.
Except when they had to play him at slot CB which he wasn't ever good at -- I still have nightmares of Cole Beasley vs. Rolle.
As I remember Williams was kind of a disappointment hopefully Collins fares better.
Beasley is very quick. You could find him getting open on any player. It's a weak point to even bring it up.
Are you comparing Collins to an older Rolle? Is that what people mean when they make that comparison? Even that is a bad comp because they are much different players. Collins did not play that game in college and he won't in the nfl either
But is asking for 26.
Do we agree that he is a good football player? Insinctive, hard working, fundamentally sound and smart?
Could he be a better Grant than Grant?
Beasley is very quick. You could find him getting open on any player. It's a weak point to even bring it up.
Are you comparing Collins to an older Rolle? Is that what people mean when they make that comparison? Even that is a bad comp because they are much different players. Collins did not play that game in college and he won't in the nfl either
My point is Rolle was never a good man cover guy, even if he did possess the physical skillset to do so. He wasn't good in the slot, was never comfortable doing it, and Fewell tried to shoehorn him into that role throughout his Giants career.
The positives for Rolle do sound a lot like the positives for Collins - sure, steady tackler, captain type, better coming forward than backwards, intelligent player, competes hard every game.
Rolle was very good in pass coverage. Excellent for a safety going back forward or sideways. It didn't matter. In space he's much different than Collins and that includes tackling too.
Bill, I'm hoping for the best but I do see it in a different role than Rolle. I prefer Rowe because he is a Rolle-type. We'll see how it goes. Plenty of ways to use Collins.
I do think we still need more at S.
Both Rolle and Phillips had much better deep coverage ability.
Collins is a safety who would have been much better 10 years ago when instinctive down hill thumpers like John Lynch could excel.
Rolle was very good in pass coverage. Excellent for a safety going back forward or sideways. It didn't matter. In space he's much different than Collins and that includes tackling too.
Bill, I'm hoping for the best but I do see it in a different role than Rolle. I prefer Rowe because he is a Rolle-type. We'll see how it goes. Plenty of ways to use Collins.
I do think we still need more at S.
I agree we need more at S, and I'd like to see some slot corners as well. Not sure we have enough after DRC/Prince/McBride.