Being the top rated safety this year doesn't mean a helluva lot. It's akin to being the best QB this year. A different year and both would be afterthoughts.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Read my last reply to you. You conveniently ignored it. Coughlin gushed about him. Dilfer gushed about him. McShay gushed about him.
I guess you know more than they do, right? Ah. Forget it. This is a lost cause.
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
Your logic sucks.
More importantly, the Giants deemed him worthy for a trade up. From internet boards, "draft gurus", and the giants front office, they all agree that we got ourselves a really good player, but because BigBlueCane thinks he's very average, then we need to hate this pick =/
Being the top rated safety this year doesn't mean a helluva lot. It's akin to being the best QB this year. A different year and both would be afterthoughts.
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Typical Cane fan. Everybody sucks especially opponents that kick their ass or aren't Canes.
You're not entirely wrong when you point out the safeties on the roster lack a pure FS, but there are a few rounds and several FS prospects left for NYG to consider.
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
Yeah we don't have one obvious candidate, but if you take the comments that people have made about Berhe, they think he has what it takes. I know that Prince raved about his speed and range.
At the end of the day (homage to 'Trel), Spags made players out of Gibril & Michael Johnson. I'm good with Landon, Cooper & Nat.
-always felt that good safeties have been had in 3 and 4.
but, this pushes cooper taylor to deep safety, lets hope he can do it.
in any case, lets see who shows up in 3 and hope that the new safety is a player.
my impetus has always been for the INTs players and the true free types. but...as always, I am willing to trust the team that these guys are better than I thought.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Taylor's instincts in space and ability to close were phenomenal. Collins isn't anywhere near that level, although the comparison isn't really fair, because few are.
I like the pick. I'd been looking at Odi and Preston Smith, but this fits nicely in both quality and need. I suspect that Collins will be far better than the nay-sayers predict.
in any case, its time to look at nate berhe and cooper taylor BBI profiles and think about who plays the deep spot:
''Nat Berhe, a 5th round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, played in all 16 games. Although he was mainly relegated to special teams, he did see some time on defense and finished the season with 10 tackles. Berhe lacks ideal size and speed, but he is a smart, aggressive competitor who plays hard all of the time. In college, Berhe made a ton of tackles against the run, but was not as active in pass defense.
Cooper Taylor was placed on Injured Reserve in August 2014 with a semasoid bone issue in his foot that required surgery. Cooper was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason. Cooper was selected in the 5th round of the 2013 NFL Draft by the Giants. A heart condition caused him to slip in the draft. Taylor has an excellent combination of size and athleticism. Taylor missed six games in 2013 with shoulder and hamstring injuries. He played in 10 games that year, serving almost exclusively on special teams.''
Like it or not, Collins was the consensus highest rated Safety in this draft. Pretty much every expert who has commented on the trade/pick since it was made views it as a major positive.
Is he perfect? No. Is coverage his strength, apparently not. But, this kid brings ALOT to the table and the value was excellent.
This is the kind of move that changes your Defense
An in the box safety changes your defense?
A so-fuckin-lutely!!!! Remember how many guys gained the edge for 10-15 yards on this defense last year? That won't be the case next season. He is an impact starter on defense and I'm fired up about the move.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Holy sh!t. This is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen even just on measurements. Sean Taylor was 6'3" and had great speed. He was a generational, prototype athlete at his position.
angles and peeking can be improved in a scheme for a full time football player. The kid can thump, aggressive in the box, smart and easy to coach from what I've heard. Good size, hard football player with something between the ears.
I like the pick. It's a first round value and a need filled. Can't complain at all. I think he makes an instant impact. He's got the melon to handle it. Good job Giants.
NYG signed a bunch of lunch pail type depth/special teamers this off season so maybe they felt this was the year to trade some picks for that player that fills a big need. We don't have to fill out the roster with so many draft picks. Special teams are set, etc...
Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
We had a full-blown crisis at safety, and no obvious way to fix it. Then, we get to the start of round #2, and what the Giants judge to be a high quality safety is sitting there.
Even if we overpaid slightly, and I admit I don't know enough to concede that, this was a massive, massive need filled.
Note that the next safety picked just got taken all the way down at 46, and Tartt is a small-school talent who certainly is unlikely to be ready to start right away, regardless of his upside.
RE: Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
Not sure what the point is. Collins is still the better player. I'm rooting for Cooper but he can't even stay healthy. The best ability is availability.
I was ust hoping that berhe and taylors angles ad INTs
the move is fine. Nfl.com profile (fwiw) says he could be a liability in coverage - a common theme from other sources but not the only view. Nor does it consider development esp given NYG saw a huge football IQ. Having a smart reliable S to line things up on the back end seems important, esp after losing Rolle. And physicality is never a bad thing esp with a sound tackler
If he's just a box safety with abv avg athleticism we might have found something similar later (Tartt) or an FA for less than 4+7, but that's the only critique and clearly not NYG's opinion. Certainly better for the S position than the CB-to-S experiments we've been considering
2.375 inches is the only measurable difference, if you think 2 lbs and 0.02 of a second is meaningful you are as crazy as the comparison to Collins and Taylor.
RE: Taylor is 2 3/8 taller 2 lbs heavier and ran a 4.51 to Collins 4.53
Sean Taylor was much faster than his combine time. You saw him play twice a year with the skins, you know that. He was looked at and still looked at as the physical prototype at the position. It's just a bizarre comparison.
On these haters, headhunter. They fail to realize this kid is going to get better in coverage, with nfl coaching. He is a weapon in spags defense. Great pick, a first rd. Talent
It sounds like he has excellent football intelligence & toughness
That's enormously important for a DB (or any defensive player). Also, he seems to have very comparable (or slightly better) combine numbers than Kam Chancellor. Chancellor measured 3 inches taller, 3 pounds heavier, and 1.5 inch longer arms. In the drills Collins was better just about across the board:
Landon Collins and Nat Berhe are going to head hunt in the secondary... now we'll have to see if they can cover.
^This. Seeing and diagnosing are not the same as being able to react in time. Collins just looks a guy who needs to keep everything in front of him to be successful.
some here after his career felt that Kenny Phillips was a reach in 1
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Read my last reply to you. You conveniently ignored it. Coughlin gushed about him. Dilfer gushed about him. McShay gushed about him.
I guess you know more than they do, right? Ah. Forget it. This is a lost cause.
Quote:
so is the reasoning that we got a steal because he's rated highly on an internet board somewhere.
Collins is not the home-run people think he is. He's very, very average that will test very well and look the part. Until the lights go on and other teams start forcing him to do the things he's not so good at.
On an internet board? He's highly rated almost everywhere. He was basically the consensus top safety in the draft.
Your logic sucks.
More importantly, the Giants deemed him worthy for a trade up. From internet boards, "draft gurus", and the giants front office, they all agree that we got ourselves a really good player, but because BigBlueCane thinks he's very average, then we need to hate this pick =/
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
People are gushing too much about a guy they know very little about. Happens every year.
Typical Cane fan. Everybody sucks especially opponents that kick their ass or aren't Canes.
They view this kid as an impact defensive player, and it's a solid need filled.
Yeah we don't have one obvious candidate, but if you take the comments that people have made about Berhe, they think he has what it takes. I know that Prince raved about his speed and range.
At the end of the day (homage to 'Trel), Spags made players out of Gibril & Michael Johnson. I'm good with Landon, Cooper & Nat.
but, this pushes cooper taylor to deep safety, lets hope he can do it.
in any case, lets see who shows up in 3 and hope that the new safety is a player.
my impetus has always been for the INTs players and the true free types. but...as always, I am willing to trust the team that these guys are better than I thought.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Taylor's instincts in space and ability to close were phenomenal. Collins isn't anywhere near that level, although the comparison isn't really fair, because few are.
I like the pick. I'd been looking at Odi and Preston Smith, but this fits nicely in both quality and need. I suspect that Collins will be far better than the nay-sayers predict.
:)
Alright wise acre, one more quip and the jeans are MINE
And no 4th round pick to screw up is probably a good thing.
This is the 'Trell replacement and the new enforcer in the middle. I'm surprised, but happy.
in any case, its time to look at nate berhe and cooper taylor BBI profiles and think about who plays the deep spot:
''Nat Berhe, a 5th round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, played in all 16 games. Although he was mainly relegated to special teams, he did see some time on defense and finished the season with 10 tackles. Berhe lacks ideal size and speed, but he is a smart, aggressive competitor who plays hard all of the time. In college, Berhe made a ton of tackles against the run, but was not as active in pass defense.
Cooper Taylor was placed on Injured Reserve in August 2014 with a semasoid bone issue in his foot that required surgery. Cooper was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason. Cooper was selected in the 5th round of the 2013 NFL Draft by the Giants. A heart condition caused him to slip in the draft. Taylor has an excellent combination of size and athleticism. Taylor missed six games in 2013 with shoulder and hamstring injuries. He played in 10 games that year, serving almost exclusively on special teams.''
Is he perfect? No. Is coverage his strength, apparently not. But, this kid brings ALOT to the table and the value was excellent.
He is immediately the best safety on the roster.
Bravo!
Quote:
This is the kind of move that changes your Defense
An in the box safety changes your defense?
A so-fuckin-lutely!!!! Remember how many guys gained the edge for 10-15 yards on this defense last year? That won't be the case next season. He is an impact starter on defense and I'm fired up about the move.
Their measurable are similar. I am NOT saying he is Sean Taylor, I am saying he can give the Giants back end a Sean Taylor presence
Holy sh!t. This is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen even just on measurements. Sean Taylor was 6'3" and had great speed. He was a generational, prototype athlete at his position.
A better comparison physically is Roy Williams.
I like the pick. It's a first round value and a need filled. Can't complain at all. I think he makes an instant impact. He's got the melon to handle it. Good job Giants.
Even if we overpaid slightly, and I admit I don't know enough to concede that, this was a massive, massive need filled.
Note that the next safety picked just got taken all the way down at 46, and Tartt is a small-school talent who certainly is unlikely to be ready to start right away, regardless of his upside.
Not sure what the point is. Collins is still the better player. I'm rooting for Cooper but he can't even stay healthy. The best ability is availability.
not to devalue the new kid, as a run defender and hard hitting zone guy.
but, if you want lots of INTs, you get kids who had them in college.
it is not nearly as easy to coach that up as some seem to think.
and- if you want to let the corners play simple cover, you might still want an INT safety deep.
the draft is not over.
If he's just a box safety with abv avg athleticism we might have found something similar later (Tartt) or an FA for less than 4+7, but that's the only critique and clearly not NYG's opinion. Certainly better for the S position than the CB-to-S experiments we've been considering
NFL.com Collins Profile - ( New Window )
2.375 inches is the only measurable difference, if you think 2 lbs and 0.02 of a second is meaningful you are as crazy as the comparison to Collins and Taylor.
Sean Taylor was much faster than his combine time. You saw him play twice a year with the skins, you know that. He was looked at and still looked at as the physical prototype at the position. It's just a bizarre comparison.
Quote:
changes your Defense
Please name the last safety who was not good vs the pass who was an impact player. Thanks.
Kam Chancellor. Troy Polamaul was not considered good against the pass either, and actually played in the box most of the time. So there are 2 there.
Looking forward to seeing some great run support.
Fuckin hell, some of you guys who shit on picks like this are EXACTLY where you should be. In the stands and on a message board.
Phillips had elite coverage skills. Weird comparison to a guy who is apparently pedestrian there.
Chancellor
3 Cone - 7.36
40 yd - 4.69
10 yd - 1.65
vert - 32
broad - 9'8
shuttle - 4.41
Collins
3 Cone - 7.38
40 yd - 4.53
10 yd - 1.57
vert - 35
broad - 10'
shuttle - 4.33
^This. Seeing and diagnosing are not the same as being able to react in time. Collins just looks a guy who needs to keep everything in front of him to be successful.
He was reliable and hit hard, which was very good, but value wise, meh that year.