however, having said for some many seasons that free safeties can be had in 3 and 4...now we have the third and 5th to look for one, unless you are satisfied going with the guys we have there.
Anyone who has insight on that...put it on the thread.
a guy who was considered to be mid to late first round talent and one of the better safeties in a weak class, who is well coached and fills a position of DIRE need, and who many were saying the Giants should draft in round one.. is now overrated and not worth giving up a fourth and seventh round pick for ???
that safeties with Landon's talent can be dynamic playmakers in a D if utilized properly by a smart DC.
This kid has a diverse enough skillset to be a flashy playmaker in our defense if utilized properly. With Spagnuolo manning the D, I have much more faith that will happen.
You don't have to be a great pure cover Safety to be a great one. Spags will have a plan for him and Im betting he will be very effective for this Defense year 1.
Also yet another great STer for Quinn with perhaps the best Special Teams player in the country. Quinn whose excuses should have run out 2-3 years ago will really have trouble justifying yet another abysmal ST performance.
I don't know if you are a real coach or not but I am surprised Bennett is not on your list. I like him a lot more then Anderson,who is also is good player with better size.
On one hand I am thrilled to get Collins. At one point, I thought he might have even been in play for the first round (I seem to have been very wrong on that one). I was hoping they would land him in round 2.
On the other hand, I do not like the idea of trading up to get him.
Somehow, that he has trouble covering slot receivers...
...has morphed into him being unable to cover anybody. Meanwhile he has demonstrated ability to cover RBs and TEs. But yeah, sure, what a crappy pick. Let's just ignore that he's a fist team AP All-American.
He's a SS. He's as big as one of our new FA LBs, faster too. Of course he will have trouble covering WRs. That's what FS's are for.
I said lets trade back into the bottom of the 1st with our 2nd and 4th ....
I knew the value would be there ... I was thinking a WR would fall @9 and we got OL with the trade up but this is just as good OL and S ... there are some nice players on the board still....I think we may end up with a OLB...
Eli Harold ... though I say take the flier on Gregory ... I think this was a major learning experience for him a REAL LIFE lesson
I honestly don't think another team will come as close as having as good a draft as the Giants through 2. So far, this is shaping up to be their best draft in a long time on paper. 2 picks and they have 2 immediate starters at positions of need.
I like Harold and he'd be a solid value in Round 3...
but Gregory is more talented, more productive and should be the pick.
No question he's more talented, but I bet Gregory isn't even on their board. Not after Hosley and Hill. I think we've pretty much given up on character risks. Gregory has been busted for pot three times, including just before the combine. He also apparently has some kind of "anxiety" issues.
RE: They had no choice. They did what they had to do.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
Now get a DT.
We've been 100% aligned, Red Dog, and I agree. Reese is doing this (and Pugh, WR, et. al) out of weakness, but they are trying to make it right. They waited too long and were misguided in many picks, but they have gotten religion. Amen to a DT; maybe they trade up again.
who fill a position of need? Sign me up. I honestly don't get those who don't like this pick. A 4th rounder is basically a crapshoot unless you're extremely lucky, but worth throwing away for only slight risk. All signs point to this kid being an above-average SS.
He's a thumper and a force down low yet his coverage skills are atrocious.
I think the draft overall is weak so I'll trust the Giants but he was a coverage liability in college. Did Auburn throw for 450+ yards or crazy number by attacking centerfield non-stop?
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
not to mention the 7th rd pick is the one from the Broncos, literally 10 picks before Mr Irrelevant, pretty much worthless. we'll add an extra UDFA to replace that pick. and still have our own 7th rounder which is higher. no big deal.
so the only real cost was the 4th rd pick, which it sounds like is 'fair value' according to that chart anyway
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
Some teams may think he's a first round talent... Idiot
and the way I see it Giants fans should be ecstatic about it. Would it have been better to have not given up three picks for the guy? Of course! But c'mon, we really had a need here and getting Collins in the second round is a great, great steal from where he's been projected to go.
Someone questioned whether it's fair to consider him a first round talent, seeing as he was only mocked to go there but really ended up in the second. To me the proof of his value lies in what the Giants gave up, and in the alleged other offers made for him. Clearly more than one team saw him at 33 as the top value there, by definition they had him rated as a first round pick.
When people crap on the pick saying it was a weak year for safety I wish to remind them that this has been a trend for quite some time. Every couple of years there are 1-2 safeties taken in the first. That's it. Take a look at the number of safeties picked in the first 3 rounds over the last five years and keep in mind that the league needs 64 starters at safety.
Keep in mind the dearth of real talent at the position in FA. If we wanted a solid starter at S we needed to either draft one high or overpay in FA, hurting our cap. I'm glad we went with one high.
Now, to the people who think he's going to be some man-coverage machine - I think you're wrong. Take a look at these three cones:
7.38
7.18
The first is our own Landon Collins at the combine.
The second is Brandon Scherff at his pro day.
Not saying I'd put Scherff in coverage, and his numbers were super-elite, but just giving you a bit of an idea that Collins has very good straight line speed but is likely to get turned around by the guys who run a 6.9 or lower three-cone.
31 teams had a shot at him in round 1 and they all passed.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
You don't know where he was on the Board of teams that picked top 20 had they picked in the bottom 12
How can you not get excited for the first two picks? Big Frankenstein tackle that many if not most had going top ten and now another guy picked to go in round 1 and a position we were scared to death about going into the draft. This team had two needs and they were able to marry need with bpa not once but twice. I refuse to not get excited about these moves/picks. We have a nice young core of talent here. When is training camp.
he was talked about as mid to late 1st rounder so good value even it cost us a 4th and 7th. Still have 4 picks to go. Lets get the other Collins, La'el now
he's faced some of the best competition in the SEC, great special teams player, and a really good tackler, something we desperately need in the back end.
he's faced some of the best competition in the SEC, great special teams player, and a really good tackler, something we desperately need in the back end.
In the highlights video someone posted here he had a solo tackle for loss against Jeremy Hill which was one of the better tackles I've seen a safety make against a power RB
... from what I've seen this guy has a major attitude and is terrific in run support. If he could do everything he wouldn't be there for us. Cheer up and watch some of his highlights.
For those that would be happy with a two down LB here, keep in mind that Collins will probably play as many snaps as that player at dime LB alone. This is not even factoring in base packages where he plays a traditional role.
People fall in love with and hate guys they don't watch a whole lot
Ah, my apologies
and had little to do with Collins
Going to help us and has played against the stars shining in our league
right now like Beckham etc should be fine against older NFL has beens
Anyone who has insight on that...put it on the thread.
I said the same prior to KP pick and it turned out.
however, the 3rd round is usually good for this so....
This kid has a diverse enough skillset to be a flashy playmaker in our defense if utilized properly. With Spagnuolo manning the D, I have much more faith that will happen.
You don't have to be a great pure cover Safety to be a great one. Spags will have a plan for him and Im betting he will be very effective for this Defense year 1.
Also yet another great STer for Quinn with perhaps the best Special Teams player in the country. Quinn whose excuses should have run out 2-3 years ago will really have trouble justifying yet another abysmal ST performance.
Well, I'm back and I'm just hoping he's NOT anything like the guy who introduced him as the pick for the Giants -Shaun Williams ...
'member, that guy - the one who had pure disdain for the ball !
You just can't do that very often.
You cannot question the need these 2 guys fill.
Chris Conley
Tyler Lockett
Jalean Strong
HENRY ANDERSON
Adrian Amos (though maybe in the fourth)
David Johnson
Tevin Coleman
Gregory
On the other hand, I do not like the idea of trading up to get him.
He's a SS. He's as big as one of our new FA LBs, faster too. Of course he will have trouble covering WRs. That's what FS's are for.
I knew the value would be there ... I was thinking a WR would fall @9 and we got OL with the trade up but this is just as good OL and S ... there are some nice players on the board still....I think we may end up with a OLB...
Eli Harold ... though I say take the flier on Gregory ... I think this was a major learning experience for him a REAL LIFE lesson
No question he's more talented, but I bet Gregory isn't even on their board. Not after Hosley and Hill. I think we've pretty much given up on character risks. Gregory has been busted for pot three times, including just before the combine. He also apparently has some kind of "anxiety" issues.
I have been very critical of the GIANTS drafting under Reese and Ross until last year, and they are doing the best possible job so far this year.
Now get a DT.
We've been 100% aligned, Red Dog, and I agree. Reese is doing this (and Pugh, WR, et. al) out of weakness, but they are trying to make it right. They waited too long and were misguided in many picks, but they have gotten religion. Amen to a DT; maybe they trade up again.
I think the draft overall is weak so I'll trust the Giants but he was a coverage liability in college. Did Auburn throw for 450+ yards or crazy number by attacking centerfield non-stop?
Quote:
So we overpaid. If he is a first round talent nobody will care we gave up an extra pick. I just not sure he is that good, I have seen him play and worry about him covering on the back end. He will be great in the box
It has been said about 50x that the old draft value chart is not current anymore. The values are different. First pick in the 2nd round you will have to overpay a bit to get as they have a whole day to take offers
not to mention the 7th rd pick is the one from the Broncos, literally 10 picks before Mr Irrelevant, pretty much worthless. we'll add an extra UDFA to replace that pick. and still have our own 7th rounder which is higher. no big deal.
so the only real cost was the 4th rd pick, which it sounds like is 'fair value' according to that chart anyway
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
Some teams may think he's a first round talent... Idiot
Someone questioned whether it's fair to consider him a first round talent, seeing as he was only mocked to go there but really ended up in the second. To me the proof of his value lies in what the Giants gave up, and in the alleged other offers made for him. Clearly more than one team saw him at 33 as the top value there, by definition they had him rated as a first round pick.
When people crap on the pick saying it was a weak year for safety I wish to remind them that this has been a trend for quite some time. Every couple of years there are 1-2 safeties taken in the first. That's it. Take a look at the number of safeties picked in the first 3 rounds over the last five years and keep in mind that the league needs 64 starters at safety.
Keep in mind the dearth of real talent at the position in FA. If we wanted a solid starter at S we needed to either draft one high or overpay in FA, hurting our cap. I'm glad we went with one high.
Now, to the people who think he's going to be some man-coverage machine - I think you're wrong. Take a look at these three cones:
7.38
7.18
The first is our own Landon Collins at the combine.
The second is Brandon Scherff at his pro day.
Not saying I'd put Scherff in coverage, and his numbers were super-elite, but just giving you a bit of an idea that Collins has very good straight line speed but is likely to get turned around by the guys who run a 6.9 or lower three-cone.
So, let's dispense with that nonsense.
And let's not moon over the picks traded. Coughlin is right; you want the guy, you have to pay.
And every player not in the HOF has his good points and bad points. Football today is about match-ups and different looks on defense. There will be opponents where he will match-up very well and he provides another option on defense. Hell, even if he is a hybrid linebacker/safety, that is a useful player. There is nothing wrong with that.
You don't know where he was on the Board of teams that picked top 20 had they picked in the bottom 12
Collins is WAY better than Garnes ever hoped to be.
Spags needs to make a statement. I think he thinks he has perhaps a Polamalu or Sean Taylor type that helps stop the run and also the option.
He looks another linebacker out there in the box. Very versatile player.
Specials.
Captain and All American on Alabama and their SEC schedule.
And Need of course.
All this for a forth and what, the extra pick Denver threw us for Prater?
A kicker?
I'm all in.
but, if you want lots of INTs, you get kids who had them in college.
it is not nearly as easy to coach that up as some seem to think
good post to the 8:28. If it were so easy, Collins wouldn't find himself lost in space. Nonetheless, on balance, I like the pick
Quote:
be the best deep S on the team too. he's not earl thomas or ed reed but he's pretty similar to kenny phillips who had ZERO problems playing deep
Phillips had elite coverage skills.
Holy revisionist history.
no.
KP's draft rap was that he would be a solid but unspectacular NFL starter.
He had great range. He was not an elite coverage skill guy.
This was desperation at its finest.
I always find the worst posts are when people make their opinions on prospects based on previous players from that school or coach.
In the highlights video someone posted here he had a solo tackle for loss against Jeremy Hill which was one of the better tackles I've seen a safety make against a power RB