Looks Like a Good Draft, But Probably Only a 3-Player Draft

that is where Lockett would have really helped- but he came off a few picks sooner

are probably more important.

The Giants are good at picking up street free agents, late round drafting just isn't their forte.

interesting....

Good news? If you get three starters out of a draft (and the Giants might have), that's a good draft.

Will be a non-factor this year....it's just not possible....

a hard time seeing the Giants winning the division without a 95 percent Cruz...and that's scary.

In comment 12265495 I Love Clams Casino said:

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Will be a non-factor this year....it's just not possible....

Impossible things are happening every day.

this is where your guy that you didn't intend to scout who popped up on your radar and you revisited him and cross checked him to confirm he was a hidden gem. That is what I'm hoping for

In comment 12265497 Eric from BBI said:

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a hard time seeing the Giants winning the division without a 95 percent Cruz...and that's scary.

The Harris twins could fill in well enough if Randle is solid and is the WR he showed at the end of last season.

3. He grades out really well on PFF and passes the eye test.

It still likely would have been a 3 player draft as there is not someone that stands out at me as that much greater than what I am expecting to be there in Round 5 and the Giants just had so many needs

I really like is there improved ability to get pressure up the middle...very important as more and more QBs are neutralizing the outside rush with quick drops, they have power and pass rush all along the dline...assuming Bromley makes a jump, they really have a nice set of guys who can move all over and provide power and push up the middle.

... that filled an enormous hole.

I'm thinking that third corner may not be on roster yet.

I was down on McBride for a while but he has progressed quite a bit.

Maybe Bennett Jackson or Mike Harris will surprise us and step up

.

Jerrel Jernigan showed well at the end of the 2013 season. He's currently unemployed.

hope you're wrong, but the odds certainly suggest that you are more than likely correct. And that is part of the problem I have with what Reese did yesterday. This team has a bunch of JAGs at many positions, and until yesterday, probably had the worst S in the league. We still have the worst TEs. Everyone after Beckham and Randle at WR is also just a JAG. (I'm not counting Cruz at this point.) There is also no depth on the OL.

Extra draft picks were necessary to begin to replace these guys. Reese instead traded up, and did so for a safety with real coverage limitations, at least down the middle of the field. Trading down would have allowed us to get Strong, an extra third, and keep our fourth. Doing so would have also made me more comfortable taking a player with an injury history like OO in the third. This team has lead the league in injuries the last two seasons.

I like what the Redskins did yesterday, trading back to accumulate more picks (seven today) to replace the bottom of their roster. They understand that extra picks are the best way to get better players. I'd still therefore like to see a trade down today, but Reese seems to hate to do so.

perhaps it's Josh Shaw, or both.

And I'm hopeful for Berhe to contribute this year.

We have some great scouts. We have some young guys on offense like Donnell, Hartis, Washington, Parker that with an off season under their belt could be major factors in our season next year.

We could nail one of the next 3 picks and find a FA gem. They will probably sign 8-10 UDFA'S as well.

Looking for a TE, CB, LB, WR and DT.

In comment 12265524 Eric from BBI said:

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Jerrel Jernigan showed well at the end of the 2013 season. He's currently unemployed.

Eric. Jernigan never came close to the production of Randle. Randle had a good year topped by a few excellent games. Jernigan was a two game wonder.

The Giants have stayed steady an kept their picks the last 5 years an look at the results in the 5th 6th & 7th rd.

How in the world can you argue the fact they moved up an got arguably the best safety in the draft . Time to try something new an get aggressive

...in which the three starters that come out of it are the guys drafted in rounds 5 thru 7, you never know. We've become pessimists because lately the Giants haven't drafted as well on day three as they used to, but they got Kennard in round 5 last year, Diehl was a 5th round pick, Garnes was a 5th round pick, Rosenthal was a 5th round pick, Kevin Boss was a 5th round pick, Gibril Wilson was a 5th round pick.

Maybe you'll feel better about it once there are names attached to our 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks this year.

Reese is digging himself out of a deep hole. You can't do that In Just one draft.

Everyone has been stating that after the pool of players targeted in the early mid rounds are gone , the talent level drops substantially

I have high hopes for Randle, but his "coming out party" is similar to Jernigan's in 2013 (who had three good games).

We're also talking about a guy who Coughlin benched twice last year.

Let's wait until we say he's officially turned the corner.

I don't like our chances on opening night against the Cowboys, for example, without Cruz.

it'll be tough to win the division without a healthy Cruz.

Still:

1) our run game should be better
2) our passing game should be better (thanks to an improved run game; Vereen, and improvement by Randle, Washington, and others), and
3) our D should be better.

So there's reason to hope.

and it's over as far as I'm concerned. Anything they may pick up from here out is gravy. (Not sauce.)

The Giants filled 3 huge needs already and got the players they just didn't see or wouldn't pay for in free agency. The team is getting younger and I like the dedication to the lines.

Our Giants have to hope Randle plays a little better than last year. If he improves just a little- you now have 2 legit WRs and Cruz won't determine the offensive season.

I feel a little like a Redskin fan now. Feel like we have a winner even before camp starts. It will again take a few games to get the new guys and new D up to speed but I don't see why they can't compete for a division title this year at this point.

But you've got to get starters 1st

For whatever reason, converted receivers to corners tend to find their way as free safeties. Their traits and instincts are still athleticism and hands which is where he excels. They aren't great tacklers and sub covers. Let him play the ballhawk role on the team and utilize his hands and closing speed on balls.

you trade up and give away a 4th rounder to get arguably a first round talent, but it was more important to not only keep that pick but get more picks because there are holes to fill and you expect to grab more starters with those picks or more "depth"? Well I am of the mind is you can grab a starter because
that is hard to find, backend development players are still out there in UDFA. If you think quantity is the answer is over quality, you and I see how to build a championship team differently.

I think Beckham, Randle, and Harris/Parker can be solid enough. I hope Cruz is healthy, because his presence in the slot is vital. He's such a good route runner and good after the catch. Parker isn't much of a YAC guy and has so-so hands. I see Harris getting some action as a guy on offense due to his speed and blocking ability.

I didn't read every post, but are you really comparing Randle to Jernigan?

I don't see the similarity, Randle always showed the potential just seemed to make boneheaded mistakes and has had off field issues. Jernigan couldn't get on the field.

Randle had as many receptions last year as Calvin Johnson did. I'm not comparing those two, just putting Randle's season in perspective.

Worry about TE and CB mostly.

TE because there's Donnell, Fells, and no one else. It's a pity that Robinson hasn't done much or really shown he's a capable NFL player. Maybe he shows up this year.

CB because, while I love DRC, Prince, there's not much behind them who are reliable. McBride is an underrated player and made plays when given the chance. I hope he can stay healthy, though. Maybe someone like Mike Harris can step up his game this year. I liked bits of his game while watching last year.

In comment 12265573 Eric from BBI said:

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I have high hopes for Randle, but his "coming out party" is similar to Jernigan's in 2013 (who had three good games). We're also talking about a guy who Coughlin benched twice last year. Let's wait until we say he's officially turned the corner. I don't like our chances on opening night against the Cowboys, for example, without Cruz.

Randle situation isn't even close to JJ. Even in his rookie year he was already established as the 3rd WR. Last season he went in as the 2nd receiver. In 2013 he was used as the deep threat in KG offense and average more yards than Cruz and Nicks with a lot less targets than Cruz. When given the same about targets that Cruz got in 2013, he got similar yards. Sometimes I think Giants fans are a tad unrealistic in what they expect from young players.

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Randle remains the same inconsistent, untrustworthy player in 2015. I am not saying he will, but it's possible.

Mason, Randle is heading into the final year of his contract. This isn't a new guy. He hasn't played as well as hoped.

& if so, I think we could win 9+ games. The offense should only improve in McAdoo's second season & I believe in Spags.

I'm just saying an inconsistent and off-field issue riddled Randle isn't close to Jernigan.

He has underperformed expectations, but still wouldn't compare him to Jernigan.

He was the 31st ranked WR last year in terms of receptions.

were all pretty excited about Jernigan at the end of 2013. We thought the light bulb had finally been turned on.

He really was tearing it up in those last few games... hard to believe he's now not even with an NFL team.

I basically agree with you about Randle, though the Jernigan reference was not really on target.

I only said there was a possibility for others to step up and that possibility isn't some pipe dream. We have guys who have shown decent ability on the NFL level like Randle and D. Harris.

I wasn't really excited about Jernigan. I thought he'd already shown he didn't have what it took.

would have the most immediate positive impact on the 2015 Giants would be WR ...

Beckham/Randle/?
vs
Beckham/Parker/Randle

is just night and day in offensive production from the passing game ... and while the OL clearly needs some bodies, I don't think the Giants have ever drafted an OL in the top ten in my lifetime (and maybe never in franchise history) ... I would have much preferred Parker at #9, Collins at 33, and the best OG available in the 3rd round

Beckham is just too special a talent to waste - and imo by not surrounding him with talent, his talent is being wasted.

there's still the possibility of getting role players, that will not start, but be #1 depth, as well as suit a role in either the offense or defense. THese rounds are usually good at finding RBs, CBs and TEs. I can see us getting all three here, as well. THere's still plenty of value at those positions. A FS starter is probably not in the cards this late, however, there may be someone like Gerold Holliman that we can get in the 5th, that has deep field cover ability.

In comment 12265500 Milton said:

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In comment 12265495 I Love Clams Casino said: Quote: Will be a non-factor this year....it's just not possible.... Impossible things are happening every day.

I get the attitude, and we all know that VC is the one guy who has the resume with the best chances to defy the experts. That's the best we can ask for, but the chances of him being 100% with his great attitude goes from .000001% to .000005%. It's just reality, I'm not wearing the blinders...

that's how I'm looking at the draft right now... anything more is just gravy.

LaEl Collins if the Giants think he might sign. Take the risk

Is not an issue. Dwayne Harris and Corey Washington can fill the slots

In comment 12265613 Eric from BBI said:

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Mason, Randle is heading into the final year of his contract. This isn't a new guy. He hasn't played as well as hoped.

I understand what many fans high expectations were but my point they were unrealistic. They wanted a guy taken late in the 2nd to play like a top 10 prospect putting up Madden like numbers. Take a look at the wide receivers taken before him and their status with said drafted teams and then get back to me.

In comment 12265652 Earl the goat said:

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Is not an issue. Dwayne Harris and Corey Washington can fill the slots

Who? You think "just some guy" is going to help Beckham?

CBs and OL-men as UDFA targets...we always need more depth at CB, and a lot of our recent OL projects have been duds

Would love to see us draft another safety today

In comment 12265573 Eric from BBI said:

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I have high hopes for Randle, but his "coming out party" is similar to Jernigan's in 2013 (who had three good games). We're also talking about a guy who Coughlin benched twice last year. Let's wait until we say he's officially turned the corner. I don't like our chances on opening night against the Cowboys, for example, without Cruz.

How long did it take fir the light bulb to turn on for Amani?

well towards the end of the season -- and was ranked 10th without Cruz. Having Cruz would be great --- but counting on him is not a good Idea for this year --

and still

I- the offense has been improved.

1- there are now 5 bona-fide starting Oline man that can gel together - the right side of the line is massive
2- We have a new running back in Shane Vereen who is going to up the ante on the screen game - also he can block and is an additional facet we didn't have last year
3- We have Harris who is available on third downs and as a screen option and he has some moves too - also he can block and is an addition over last year
4- Larry Donnell is still on the team and has one more year of experience under his belt
5 - Eli is much more comfortable with the new Offense and is going to start out the year not needing 4-6 games to figure things out
6 - Odell is a vet and hopefully will start in game one this year
7- Randell came to catch with Eli during the off-season for the first time this year -- and he - even with his bone-headedness is a nice second receiver option - and had steady production last year even if not spectacular - and there is every reason to believe he can at least repeat last year and possible even do better.

Prognosis - even without Cruz the Offense is better than it was last year - is now in front of the curve and should be better than last year -- and there remains a possibility that Cruz could be an additional bolster for the last half of the season.

II - Special teams is radically improved with Harris, Collins, Castillo, Odiggy, and a couple of others added this off season - I look forward to a better strategic field position this year after kickoffs, punts and returns

III - Defense is also arguably improved - with a new coach - a couple of rookies expected to contribute more physicality and toughness - and some speedy bit players that were added to the linebacker corps and the DLine and backfield -- maybe the FO will still add a few more pieces to the backfield

You can worry about this all you want -- but I see real progress and adding 3 starters in the draft is HUGE and if they show the promise they appear to represent -- it will be even more HUGE

I am therefore not as worried about having Cruz as Eric is -- Cruz is a luxury that we may or may not have -- but we still have improved and may yet improve more

hope you are right, but this is still a team that got swept by the Cowboys and Eagles, and lost to the Jaguars.

but agree we're thin at CB. I think you gotta be able to count on 4 guys. Carry 5 in the roster.

Not sure we've got 5.

And someone is bound to get nicked.

Who knew Devon Kennard would be a starting quality LB after the draft last year?

gidie, I couldn't disagree more ... you need three WR to play in today's NFL - that's isn't a luxury, it's a necessity ... and if Cruz isn't ready - but if he's "just another guy", then the Giants WR corp is Beckham and nobody else.

I think Randle can be very productive behind TWO dynamic players ahead of him - but without that, he's literally a nobody. So, with Cruz of 2013, the Giants WR trio of Beckham/Cruz/Randle would be dynamic as hell. But without Cruz, then Randle is a nobody - and it becomes much easier for teams to take Beckham out of the game.

1) Even if this is a 3 player draft, on paper they got 3 solid players, 2 of whom are almost certain to start from day 1.

2) I think an 80% Cruz serves the purpose. He will end up serving a role similar to Steve Smith his first couple of years. He will run the underneath stuff and be relied on more than anything to be where he is supposed to be and just catch the ball.

Want something from someone drafted today in terms of a 2015 contribution. A special teams contributor would be ok, but if you also had a guy (could be same one) who won at least a rotational role on O or D, that might be what makes this a truely special draft.

(How's that for optimism?)

the Cowboys have taken a step back on Offense - and the Defense was playing over it's head last year - and their backfield is still not great - Romo is a year older

the Eagles have a rag tag bunch at QB - and a lot of turnover -- losing some key players - including vets on the front line, terrific receivers and RB - and adding a lot of pieces -- that went well for us last year -- didn't it - it's going to be interesting to see Murray run behind a lesser front line than last year

Washington is improved -- they are the team I am more worried about -- -- it's going to be a tough year in the NFCE -- but I think the Giants have improved and may be up for it

In comment 12265775 baadbill said:

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gidie, I couldn't disagree more ... you need three WR to play in today's NFL - that's isn't a luxury, it's a necessity ... and if Cruz isn't ready - but if he's "just another guy", then the Giants WR corp is Beckham and nobody else. I think Randle can be very productive behind TWO dynamic players ahead of him - but without that, he's literally a nobody. So, with Cruz of 2013, the Giants WR trio of Beckham/Cruz/Randle would be dynamic as hell. But without Cruz, then Randle is a nobody - and it becomes much easier for teams to take Beckham out of the game.

baadbill - yes you need three receivers and as I spelled out -- we have more than three good to very good receiving options besides OBJ -- get off your high horse and smell the roses - Randle, Vereen, Harris, Donnell are a more than adequate number of potions - and still you have Ogletree, Parker and maybe Washington to look to as well -- there is depth to our receiving core that you are not giving it credit for

In comment 12265621 Eric from BBI said:

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were all pretty excited about Jernigan at the end of 2013. We thought the light bulb had finally been turned on. He really was tearing it up in those last few games... hard to believe he's now not even with an NFL team.

Am I the only person who feels that Parker has spark?

all possible starters/serious time players in the next couple of years, if not sooner. that is enough for me in this draft. if it means not getting a WR, so be it.

But I went into this draft thinking we were not a year away. So for building blocks, this was phenomenal draft any way you look at it. I was not looking to fill all the holes, there were too many.

In comment 12265791 gidiefor said:

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In comment 12265775 baadbill said: Quote: gidie, I couldn't disagree more ... you need three WR to play in today's NFL - that's isn't a luxury, it's a necessity ... and if Cruz isn't ready - but if he's "just another guy", then the Giants WR corp is Beckham and nobody else. I think Randle can be very productive behind TWO dynamic players ahead of him - but without that, he's literally a nobody. So, with Cruz of 2013, the Giants WR trio of Beckham/Cruz/Randle would be dynamic as hell. But without Cruz, then Randle is a nobody - and it becomes much easier for teams to take Beckham out of the game. baadbill - yes you need three receivers and as I spelled out -- we have more than three good to very good receiving options besides OBJ -- get off your high horse and smell the roses - Randle, Vereen, Harris, Donnell are a more than adequate number of potions - and still you have Ogletree, Parker and maybe Washington to look to as well -- there is depth to our receiving core that you are not giving it credit for

The only name on that list that adds anything to the passing attack is Vereen - and while he is likely to help out of the backfield with some screens and flairs, he isn't going to attract attention like another #1 would have. My objection is that Beckham is a once in a lifetime type of player - a true franchise type of player - someone you surround with talent, not just a bunch of names.

last year he performed magnificently with no running game to speak of -- this year we've added juice to the running game and that is going to help OBJ in a big way -- but we've also added receiving options that are also going to help him

I think you are totally over-reacting ---- but carry on

An 80 percent Cruz is not a viable NFL starter.

how bad we were last year. And bad teams have lots of holes to fill. We used our premium picks in an effort to plug a few of those holes. That's all you could realistically expect. No way was this team heading into camp without some huge question marks. To be good we need a few guys to over-perform expectations.

I expect that this year our line will be much improved. This means the running game should be functional, and Eli should have more time to throw. So hopefully we don't need three superstuds at WR. If Eli gets time, and the running game can hold its own, a WR corp of OBJ, Cruz at 75%, Randle, and then plugging in Parker/Washington should be enough/

is a terrible one.

you need to make some of these picks count.

Btw, Jernigan sucked for 3 years before he had a few good games- or at least enough to fool John Mara. Randle has improved dramatically each year. Unfortunately for him, he's in the "will never do enough to satisfy the BBI masses" category.

We don't have enough wideouts. You need that 3rd or 4th receiver who is better than the other team's 3rd or 4th db if you want to beat the good teams. Cole Beasley won games for Dallas. The Packers have predicated an entire offense on having 4th wideouts who could beat your 3rd corner.

All you "win it in the trenches" people are living in the past. The NFL has become a game of answers and mix and matchup. We need more answers at wideout and in the back 7.

In comment 12266082 HomerJones45 said:

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you need to make some of these picks count. Btw, Jernigan sucked for 3 years before he had a few good games- or at least enough to fool John Mara. Randle has improved dramatically each year. Unfortunately for him, he's in the "will never do enough to satisfy the BBI masses" category. We don't have enough wideouts. You need that 3rd or 4th receiver who is better than the other team's 3rd or 4th db if you want to beat the good teams. Cole Beasley won games for Dallas. The Packers have predicated an entire offense on having 4th wideouts who could beat your 3rd corner. All you "win it in the trenches" people are living in the past. The NFL has become a game of answers and mix and matchup. We need more answers at wideout and in the back 7.

Homer -- that is utter nonsense - the trenches are huge -- because you have no running game without a solid line - and the Cowboys success last year was not predicated on Cole Beasley -- it was predicated on Demarcus Murray running the ball behind that line

This draft indicates their comfort with the back end of the WR corps.