The Thompson Pick

I would not classify him as one of the leaders of the defense (Diggs was the secondary leader). I was shocked by the pick.

In comment 12267961 jeff57 said:

Quote:

But will you admit the pick was a waste if/when he turns out to be the Adrian Robinson of the safeties? And act as if Reese has no history of mid round flops come next year's draft?

Every GM has a history of mid and late round flops, because most players in the mid and late rounds don't every do much.

In comment 12268046 GMenLTS said:

Quote:

hilarious levels.

Yeah it's crazy. "Jerry reached again!" It's like some people will get made fun of on Monday morning at work because we took a guy not on everyone else's online draft board.

and in 2013 he was ok. I expect Taylor to contribute, and the books is still out on Nassib and Hermann. So I am not a guy who thinks Reese has done that poorly. I just question this guy.

(a question TC rightfully ducked -- but he sounds open to it if they (esp Thompson) are ready) -- you have two smart guys at the back end who understand how to adjust a D. In this day and age (e. Eagles) where an up tempo offense makes subbing harder, last minute adjustments are critical.

said after the first 3 picks, "I don't care what happens after this given what we just did in rounds 1-3." Then, when the rest of the draft unfolded, the same people, who had NO IDEA who these unrecognizable names were, opined how disappointed they were with 5-7..Can't make this shit up..

Because of 5-7, many gave the draft a much lesser grade because of the no-names drafted there..Just check the draft grade thread..

B3, well thought out post per usual

No,it's not the draft magazines,or the guys on TV. These players have their agents and their coaches who ask scouts when do they believe this so and so player will be drafted. They have a pretty good idea when they will go. When a player believes he is not going to be drafted and goes as high as the 5th round you can question if he is a reach. Maybe he's not,but you have to have reservations about it.Time will tell.I hope he's great.

that too much was made out of Thompson's "surprise" over being drafted..If I had just one visit lined up, I would believe there's no way anyone would draft me, even by the one visit team that I saw..

The further down you go in the draft the choices become limited. Do you take a player that you determine has obvious limitations because he has a higher public profile or gamble on a lesser known player who has the greater chance of a true upside even though he may need a little more work getting there. Some of the players passed on may if asked to immediately start do a better job but have little growth potential past the level they are at. Another player may need a little more coaching but has the skill set to where he has a chance of surpassing those other players.

No guarantees in the draft it is all about risk and reward. The higher rounds there are more players where the odds are in your favor without having to expose yourself to as much risk. The further down in the draft you go the more that formula starts to reverse itself.

Do you know how often 5th round picks pan out? At this point of the draft ,you pick for projectable upside. Giant scouts saw something here with this kids athletic versatility and talent. In the 5th round it's worht the gamble.

so to me that would have been a great value pick, but Thompson does bring more size/speed/athleticism to the table. Hopefully this guy is the next Sam Shields, or at minimum Bennett Jackson, who I thought looked very good in camp last year.

In comment 12268107 steve in ky said:

Quote:

The further down you go in the draft the choices become limited. Do you take a player that you determine has obvious limitations because he has a higher public profile or gamble on a lesser known player who has the greater chance of a true upside even though he may need a little more work getting there.

^This

Derron Smith would have been heralded as a steal around here due to his success in the college game. However his size may make it very difficult for him to become an every-down safety. His ceiling is pretty low imo.

and some of you would defend it.

Last years 5th round picks looks pretty good. It wasn't some unheard of reach. It was a player who actually expected to be drafted and had a good track record at his position. Reese could have done the same thing this year and picked Mr learning how to tackle in the 7th round.

and at least one other site talked about how much he progressed under Coach Strong. And suggested he would have benefited from another year of eligibility at UT. If there is any truth to that argument - it's all about how he gets coached up.

in the 4th to 7th rounds under Jerry's supervision that have played well for the Giants.

Brandon Jacobs
Barry Cofield
Kevin Boss
Zak DeOssie
A. Bradshaw

That's from 2005 to 2013. That's nine years. That's like a 16% success rate. 84% bust rate. If someone sells me a fake item 8 out of 10 times i'm not buying from them anymore. You have a better chance of throwing a dart at an Ourlads book and picking a better player. Scouts make there money on rounds 4-7. How do the scouts defend that track record. Reese is only at fault because he hasn't made changes to personnel in that dept.

Some will say the Giants personnel know what there doing. For Decades the Knicks FO thought they knew what they were doing and we all know different. Yet they are "Professionals". If the Giants keep drafting this way and compensating by over paying Free Agents they will continue to miss the playoffs and Mara will continue to have fire everybody press conferences.

In comment 12268236 ZogZerg said:

Quote:

Reese could have done the same thing this year and picked Mr learning how to tackle in the 7th round.

Again, how exactly do you know where he would have been drafted? Are you privy to the draft boards from the other 31 teams?

If you don't like the pick that is fine, nobody has a problem with others not liking the pick. The thing that is frustrating as shit is when some of you make definitive statements about where he could have been drafted or picked up after the draft. You are talking out your ass. You have no way of knowing that.

They should not have been in a position to have to force a pick like this.

That said, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one based on need and the scouting reports that I have read on the guy.

The real waste was the next pick on a sub-standard WR.

Do you think before the pick that Reese and company said fellas let's draft a sub standard WR? Is that what you think they felt?

In comment 12268328 #10* said:

Quote:

in the 4th to 7th rounds under Jerry's supervision that have played well for the Giants. Brandon Jacobs Barry Cofield Kevin Boss Zak DeOssie A. Bradshaw That's from 2005 to 2013. That's nine years. That's like a 16% success rate. 84% bust rate. If someone sells me a fake item 8 out of 10 times i'm not buying from them anymore. You have a better chance of throwing a dart at an Ourlads book and picking a better player. Scouts make there money on rounds 4-7. How do the scouts defend that track record. Reese is only at fault because he hasn't made changes to personnel in that dept. Some will say the Giants personnel know what there doing. For Decades the Knicks FO thought they knew what they were doing and we all know different. Yet they are "Professionals". If the Giants keep drafting this way and compensating by over paying Free Agents they will continue to miss the playoffs and Mara will continue to have fire everybody press conferences.

Nothing personal, but this is incomplete imo..Incomplete as long as we don't have comparative success or failure rates from the 31 other teams in rounds 4-7..Without that comparative, we only have the biased assessment of Reese and Reese only..

Point? If he has in fact fucked up in the hit or miss fashion of the lower rounds, is that the relative norm in the league or is he, in fact, a fuck-up compared to his peers?

rounds 5-7, they only see what Reese has done through tunnel vision. It doesn't matter if he has had hits, it is easier to go after him for the misses even if the rest of the league averages more misses in rounds 5-7

In comment 12267946 spike said:

Quote:

Your guess is as good as mine

My biggest issue with that argument is that a relatively high 5th round pick should not necessarily be considered "late," per se. I believe part of the Giants' drafting woes stem from shifting to sleeper/project mode too early.

... but I wouldn't call it a "classic" reach -- for reasons stated introducing this thread and other reasons. It's "classic" for the GIANTS to evaluate some players ahead of every other team, no question. But sometimes circumstances beyond your control dictate when you need to make a move. If you're watching players being taken and see very little correlation to your own board, and if you've been expecting to be able grab up a player in the 7th rather than let him drift to UDFA, a combination of factors might move you to pull the trigger a little sooner ... and in a soft draft, such a move is less of a reach.

IMO it was low risk to wait within or after the draft. Even if we miss, there's little chance a low rated player is that much better than a pool of players generally higher. He could be, but it's not a great bet (we made bigger bets on Moss & Barden and lost). That after signs of being a late choice if at all - draft boards, production, media, himself

So no one KNOWS but from that the guess is to fall. Not a huge loss if we miss, since we just pick a different 5th rounder. If we hit it's more value at multiple spots (if a 7th, 5+6 are better values). That's the risk of reaching, if available later we lose the added value. Important team-wide & long term

Nothing to do with how good MT is, our scouting, the first 3 picks, simply about value and efficiency. Since we can all agree there's been a bit of a talent vacuum across the team (see 0-6). Doesn't matter he's one of us, but for discussion sake

distraught about draft picks. These guys are now NY Giants and some of you are hoping Thompson Davis Hart flop so you could come back next year to bitch and moan about picks you never heard of to say just like Thompson Davis Hart wasted picks, Reese sucks.

particularly in the last 7 games of the 2014 season. I watched him progress last season. UT's player development under Mack Brown was practically non-existent. Thompson played against some of the best spread offenses in the country, he has the range to play FS. He's a more natural athlete and football player than the other 2 projects (Cooper Taylor and Nat Berhe.) He played much tougher competition than Berhe or Taylor. Evidently, the front office and coaching staff believes in his ability enough to draft him in the 5th round. I just wish he had played under Strong for more than one season.

for more than 1 season. If he did it sounds like he would be more advance and might of been a higher round pick that we would of had no shot at

Don't really have a gripe about him specifically.

I just cannot comprehend the fact that Reese/Ross absolutely WILL NOT draft a linebacker. It's as if they won't even acknowledge the position exists.

In this respect, IMO, they are assholes and failures.

& UDFA's. Maybe this year's LB sucked as a group as it was reported to be a very weak crop

Acknowledge that they did sign 2 FAs which should help our specials at least. But the draft? They get LB rash or something. Can't see it.

on Ferrand. Thought the Giants might take a flyer on Cobbs or Edmond from UT as UDFAs.

Have a VERY high bust rate historically. 70%+

And by bust I don't mean relative to expectations or a marginal NFL career - zero NFL career. To put that in perspective, Jacquian Williams was an extremely successful late round pick.

With that as the backdrop, it is very hard to take criticism of these picks seriously, particularly in what was obviously a shallow draft.

Article
Data - ( New Window )

that's hard to take seriously is that I've seen few people talk about the player on the field. They are comparing draft guides and TV "experts" talk about the players.

Part of the franchise's ability to win so many Championships is that it is better at evaluating talent (for the most part) than many teams. So there will be times we select players that other team didn't haven't rated as high, because the team is damned good at their jobs. They don't always hit. No teams does. And these are later round picks that we're complaining about after 3 picks that were top notch players at need positions. deer baybee jeeziz helpus?

pick doesn't bother me that much.

A lot of BBI'ers were saying, "when are they going to draft a FS?" even after they took Collins. Well, Thompson is a FS. He is one of those FS-CB tweeners now in vogue. Is he a good player? I have no idea. Draft guides and draftniks don't think so.

Look at the draft reports that you have on the site regarding Thompson...

And then go back and look at the draft reports from 2004 on BBI..

Both safeties with question marks coming out of college.. Both drafted in the fifth round..

Compare the reports..

Remarkably similar in many aspects..

Just food for thought...

Is regularly misranked by pundits and guides - no one is mentioning that the consensus #1 safety wasn't the first safety taken, and that Damarious Randall himself said he was surprised the Packers took him.

Collins went 20-30 picks later than expected, yet everyone seems to trust where the same folks had a much later round prospect graded...

Further, in a shallow draft, the later rounds tend to get populated by guides and pundits with high production, large program, physically limited prospects (think Michael Bennett)...

And think of it as a very good year.

I think this was a top-loaded draft and the players going on day 3 will be forgotten. So the Giants got what they thought was useful pieces, but in the end, it won't matter.

Thompson thought he would go undrafted. That is no guarantee another team would take him. If you've seen him play and think he stinks, fair enough, but if you've never seen him play, I'm not sure how anyone could be so quick to criticize the pick.

You now have a bunch of young kids - old farts all gone - and the yunguns will get reps and lots of time with the positional coaches and Spags.

They also look like a group that will hit the 'film room' (who knows, being polite)

Let's pretend that the team had film of Drummond in an al-queda training camp or something.

One caveat, when I did (an unrelated to sports research job), I used only my own research and did not rely on 'the dudes network'...now, some of those guys made more money (who didn't, fuchers). but:

any 'network' us liable to manipulation, i.e. "we are grabbing unknown player 'X' in round six if he is there"

(which could be total bullshit)

As a man who formerly played against this guy, I would tell you that this man is highly competitive, hard-nosed, and a physical nightmare to both cover and run against.

As a giants fan, I'm excited to see another longhorn beside C.B. and Aaron Ross be on the roster at this time. This guy has Jerry Reese pick written all over him as he is a physical freak with great potiental for a high football acumen. The man may make the final roster as a special teams ace, but will develop quite nicely into something more.


and this one



Texas Fan here, Giants, what you got is an elite athlete who was really starting to develop into a solid player under Charlie Strong. Before Charlie was hired Mykelle was soft as a pillow, but he's turned into a more complete safety. He can also play corner if needed. There are no limitations on him physically, he's as athletic as any DB in this draft, he just needs to develop with his attitude in the game. He's not a dog yet.

never reaches for a player in the draft and takes the BPA on their board.....

for certain what their board looked like at the time?

if this has been posted and I'm too lazy to check.
Thompson's struggles and growth - ( New Window )

In comment 12270720 bc4life said:

Quote:

for certain what their board looked like at the time?

Based on the reactions to this pick, the number of posters who got a glimpse at our board and the boards of other teams is astoundingly high.

Who knew BBI was so clued in all over the NFL?

where other teams have players slotted. They work in a vacuum. They have people follow the media reports on what teams might be doing. They assign a grade and a row and they stick to it. Their grade on Thompson was their own. They could not care less if every other team in the league did not grade him. So this wasn't a reach to Reese

(and I did not look at all this year)

"growth" or "improvement factor"

I.e., 'does a given kid learn and improve/respond to coaching, how much and how quickly'

if so, and if the kid in question does, that counts for a lot.

having said that, only 2 INTs, I look at the idea that spatial (field vision) is innate, i.e. endemic, more so than learnable...so...that would indicate the other side of the coin.

In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:

Quote:

..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..

who has shown nothing so far....

In comment 12267997 Steve in South Jersey said:

Quote:

they did nothing about it in the free agent market. They had a bad plan for filling their needs at safety.

That's a little premature, no?

In comment 12268348 Red Dog said:

Quote:

They should not have been in a position to have to force a pick like this. That said, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one based on need and the scouting reports that I have read on the guy. The real waste was the next pick on a sub-standard WR.

And there you have it.They shouldn't be forced into picks like this. The fact is there is a price to be paid for shitty drafting. The price, specifically is that you have to give more consideration to need, than grades.

I don't think this was a bad draft in and of itself, but the fact that it was a largely need dictated draft has to be considered, and the fact that when that's the case, opportunities to get the highest graded players go by the wayside as you pick for need to fill the gaping holes, and you wind up with a compromised roster until it gets sorted out. It's a hole that once you get into is very hard to ever get out of.the effects of earlier shitty drafts are compounded by compromised drafting, even if in later drafts you did the best you could all things considered. it would be nice to get back to drafting the highest graded players, maybe next year if the current roster works out.

and they are very similar in quite a few aspects