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The Thompson Pick

Reb8thVA : 5/3/2015 7:39 am
I am not a Reese apologist. I have been a vocal critic of his draft record for a while. However, I think we need to take a step back when thinking about this pick. We have to keep in mind that this was not a strong draft especially at the Safety position. I think when the Giants were looking at the Safeties on the board in the 5th which included many names we all knew from mock drafts, they saw guys they were familiar with were not impressed and did not believe would substantially improve. In picking Thompson they saw some one with the physical attributes and intelligence to get better and some one who just needs more experience.

In short they are gambling that the future potential of Thompson is higher than any of the other guys available whose proven production wasn't that impressive. In a weak draft like this, it's a gamble that I can accept. Better to take a risk in this kind of draft than one that is solid.
DING, DING, DING  
EB222 : 5/3/2015 7:42 am : link
We have a winner!
It was the worst pick  
Chip : 5/3/2015 7:50 am : link
of the night. I do agree it was an especially weak draft. Even the player was surprised.
I'm going to assume  
Jolly Blue Giant : 5/3/2015 8:01 am : link
That there was interest from other teams in Thompson to justify the 5th rd selection. There is no way we can know.
I agree it seems like another  
section125 : 5/3/2015 8:03 am : link
Jerry reach. The one thing that made me think was when Ross (iirc) said this guy blew them away on the whiteboard. In other words, he is football smart - knows his position and assignment and can read plays. Over half the battle is reading the play and making the right choice.

I think his only obvious problem is strength. He (like almost all NFL rookies) is a little slight in the pants. He's pretty quick. I guess he is supposed to be very good on specials too.

Time will tell.
I think it's hard to be critical of the late round decisions  
Dave in Buffalo : 5/3/2015 8:05 am : link
In terms of this guys talent versus any other's we simply don't have anywhere near the same information as the guys making these picks.
"Time will tell"  
jeff57 : 5/3/2015 8:05 am : link
This is true. But Reese's mid round track record doesn't give me confidence.
The real problem with this pick  
SwirlingEddie : 5/3/2015 8:14 am : link
was putting the team in the position where they had to draft a FS in the first place.
YES, this was a wasted pick!  
chiefmps : 5/3/2015 8:14 am : link
There was just so much talent on the board, this is the time to draft the best talent on the board and not waste a pick on a player that would have been an UDFA. The Giants have the second worse run defense and now with Cleveland draft the Giants will more likely now have the worse run defense. With a number of TE and DT's still on the board, I just don't understand this wasted pick? Another C grade draft.
Complete Reach who could have been drafted in the 7th if they were  
ZogZerg : 5/3/2015 8:15 am : link
really that concerned about another team signing him as an URFA. I'm trying to remember when the last time one of these worked out. I would rather go with a "troubled player who dropped" in this spot then a complete reach.
And don't forget that this is a high 5th round pick we are  
ZogZerg : 5/3/2015 8:17 am : link
talking about, not number 25.
Hmmmm  
JCin332 : 5/3/2015 8:18 am : link
..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..
RE: Hmmmm  
jeff57 : 5/3/2015 8:20 am : link
In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:
Quote:
..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..


Your point being?
One day I will get an explanation that absolutely proves  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 8:23 am : link
the point made "that based on previous picks in the same round he will be a reach bust". If you were talking about inate objects that were clones of previous busts or reaches, I might understand . You are comparing human beings with different skill sets, personalities, work ethics, intangibles, etc
You have to stop and think how stupid that sounds to anyone with half a brain. This isn't apples to apples, this is apples to tomatoes
RE: YES, this was a wasted pick!  
section125 : 5/3/2015 8:23 am : link
In comment 12267922 chiefmps said:
Quote:
There was just so much talent on the board, this is the time to draft the best talent on the board and not waste a pick on a player that would have been an UDFA. The Giants have the second worse run defense and now with Cleveland draft the Giants will more likely now have the worse run defense. With a number of TE and DT's still on the board, I just don't understand this wasted pick? Another C grade draft.


Did you forget Kenrick Ellis (better than any DT in the 5th or maybe even the 3nd round) and George Selvie?
RE: RE: Hmmmm  
JCin332 : 5/3/2015 8:24 am : link
In comment 12267931 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:


Quote:


..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..



Your point being?


My point being looks like that pick has turned out to be pretty solid..
RE: One day I will get an explanation that absolutely proves  
jeff57 : 5/3/2015 8:24 am : link
In comment 12267934 Headhunter said:
Quote:
the point made "that based on previous picks in the same round he will be a reach bust". If you were talking about inate objects that were clones of previous busts or reaches, I might understand . You are comparing human beings with different skill sets, personalities, work ethics, intangibles, etc
You have to stop and think how stupid that sounds to anyone with half a brain. This isn't apples to apples, this is apples to tomatoes


By thy fruits, ye shall know them.
We have some real critical thinkers here  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 8:27 am : link
who probably working on an assembly line doing the same thing over and over every day to come up that lazy argument
We have some real critical thinkers here  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 8:27 am : link
who probably working on an assembly line doing the same thing over and over every day to come up that lazy argument
I havent watched any games of his  
robbieballs2003 : 5/3/2015 8:29 am : link
But from his highlights you can still see some great things. I don't know if he does them all the time but the potential is there. He wraps up when he tackles which is very rare and very important at that level of the defense. He also glides when he runs. He's very smooth. That makes me think that he should be able to flip his hips very well. You also see him in multiple roles making plays. That's not easy to do so mentally he sounds ready for the safety position. He just probably needs some coaching and experience. I don't want to go into anything more because highlight only tell what a player is capable of. However, he has a nice set of skills to work with.
Late round picks are a crapshoot  
spike : 5/3/2015 8:30 am : link
Your guess is as good as mine
RE: RE: RE: Hmmmm  
jeff57 : 5/3/2015 8:30 am : link
In comment 12267936 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 12267931 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:


Quote:


..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..



Your point being?



My point being looks like that pick has turned out to be pretty solid..


Based on what exactly?
Major  
AcidTest : 5/3/2015 8:33 am : link
reach. Classic Reese "I'm smarter than everyone else" pick. Reese has been drafting major reaches with day three picks for years, which is why there is no depth across so many positions. We still have no OL depth, and the worst TEs in the league. Prior to the draft you could have included safeties as well.

Thompson wasn't even considered draftable. He would have been around in the seventh.
jeff57  
Mike in NY : 5/3/2015 8:42 am : link
Although rated low by CBS/NFL Draft Scout, people who watched more Texas games than I did discussed his tremendous progress with one year of coaching from Charlie Strong. This pick is not about what he is now, but what he could be in the future with better coaching in the NFL. Victor Cruz was a UDFA who nobody had heard of, but looking back I am sure some scouts are saying "I wish my team had listened to me and drafted him in Round X". Just because teams did not bring him in for a personal interview doesn't mean he wasn't on the radar of other teams. Area scouts will meet informally with players while scouting at a school and the scouts from various teams do talk because you just cannot be everywhere at all times
I never heard of him  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 8:43 am : link
he wasn't listed in Wally Dimple's Draft Guide. So what if Reese has more information on him than Wally Dimple, so what if they scouted him, flew him in for an interview, worked him out. if Wally Dimple doesn't list him he must be no good. Just because there are a ton of NFL players who were late round picks that nobody including Wally Dimple, this guy will be a bust
So far  
TMS : 5/3/2015 8:44 am : link
the drafting of Thompson, Davis, and Hart are like the selection of Bromley last year. Reaches by Reese and Ross that are not supportable by anyone else in the business of evaluating talent in the draft. Dismiss this if you chose but that is MO.
All well and good Mike  
jeff57 : 5/3/2015 8:47 am : link
But will you admit the pick was a waste if/when he turns out to be the Adrian Robinson of the safeties? And act as if Reese has no history of mid round flops come next year's draft?
Let's see  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 8:58 am : link
GM gets pretty much universally praised for top 3 picks, knows that after each round there are more holes in the players available game's or they would have been drafted decides to grab diamonds in the rough that might not translate to NFL quality with late round picks, players that he might not get as UDFA's cause they can go where they want. Risk and reward from the 5th round on is very acceptable to me
HH  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 5/3/2015 9:05 am : link
Easy big guy. Most of these people don't go as far as reading a draft guide. That is way too much effort. They watch ESPN and watch their "guru" tell them which are the next best players out there. If you pick someone else the GM is an idiot.

And by the way, I agree about Bromley. He is going to shine this year.
smart versatile player  
hitdog42 : 5/3/2015 9:09 am : link
with good athleticism in a league where versatility is growing in importance--- seems a humble kid as well who admits to not having a great final campaign- I liked the pick--- so many people just look at the "boards" and think they are some bible... after the 3rd round its kind of a crap shoot-
look around the other teams late picks....  
George from PA : 5/3/2015 9:12 am : link
Most everyone has names no one had listed. ...
TMS...  
SuperRonJohnson : 5/3/2015 9:18 am : link
You include a 7th round 6-6 329 lb. OL pick (that has started on a national championship team as a reach? What do you expect in the 7th? Hart was a good late round pick.
Giants knew it was going to be a weak year for drafting at safety  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/3/2015 9:28 am : link
they did nothing about it in the free agent market. They had a bad plan for filling their needs at safety.


robbieballs  
Bill2 : 5/3/2015 9:31 am : link
Has the post that summarizes all we need know at this point about Thompson.

Its not easy to keep in mind and make plays from multiple positions. Its one thing to "know" several languages and another to switch back and forth easily in real time.

DB that are smart and versatile are hard to find and important to find because there are always injuries ...even during games.

If you notice the Giants drafted or FA signed several guys who can fill more than one slot and can be good special teams players.....roster flexibility and depth means carrying a better overall talent base to develop

id rather the last DB be position flexible than just play one position. How many times have we had to hire or find someone off the street who did not know our schemes mid year?
The end of this draft,  
Doomster : 5/3/2015 9:34 am : link
Reminded me of the end of the 2009 draft...
Pearl Harbor Pick  
stoneman : 5/3/2015 9:37 am : link
No matter how you justify this pick, it could have been made in the 6th (if you really thought another team had contacted him) or the 7th, not an upper 5th. This is a Reese pick that will "live in infamy" from now on, at least every draft day 3.
Part of JR's job that coordinates with the draft  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/3/2015 9:38 am : link
You will probably laugh, but barring health complicating a comparison between players -

Kendrick Ellis will provide as much to the Giants defense in 2015 as Danny Shelton would have.

With Bromley also in the mix, Giants should not have been looking to load up on DTs, particularly if they are going to be part-time players.

I have no trouble with our 3 last picks particularly if a year on the PS is looked at as a normal development possibility.
Simalarly  
Bill2 : 5/3/2015 9:38 am : link
The seventh rd WR likes to play on specials and is a red zone threat that is not afraid to go over the middle. Since Washington does not play specials or seem to be ok going over the middle....if this pick works...we picked up depth at two positions and not one.

The result? Maybe its keeping Ayers or Cruz off IR so late year they start to make more and more contributions. Or keeping 10 OL or 10 DL or 7 WR

smart attempts at roster management
I basically like the 'We trust our scouts' philosophy.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/3/2015 9:38 am : link
I would hope that there's some accountability when they go out a limb this way and get it wrong. (Who came up with Phillip Dillard, and where is that scout now?) But the basic approach makes sense to me. It beats having another generation of Maras pick players out of Street & Smith's College Football Guide.

The Mykkele Thompson pick is most fairly viewed in the context of the fifth round of this particular draft. If you look at the fifteen picks after M.Thompson, very few of them were highly regarded during the pre-draft buildup. One exception is Jay Ajayi, but he seems to have a huge medical red flag. So the Giants are far from the only team disregarding draftnik consensus and following their own board. Mykkele Thompson might be an extreme case, but he's hardly unique. If you're going to criticize the Thompson pick on the basis of opportunity cost, who would you have taken instead? Michael Bennett? He sat on the board until #180, perhaps because of size and a nagging injury that limited his workouts. Tony Lippett? The Giants may have simply liked Geremy Davis better. And who's to say Mykkele Thompson would have lasted until 186? He probably would have, but who knows?

Then there's the issue of the safety class. The next safety taken, Cedric Thompson (to Miami, six picks later at #150) is a player the Giants scouted thoroughly. They obviously preferred M.Thompson, and drafted accordingly. After the two Thompsons, no safety of any kind was taken until Jarrett at #181 to the Redskins. The next free safety was Derron Smith at #197 to the Bengals. Smith had a third- or fourth-round grade on lots of sites, but apparently no team saw him as good value before late in the sixth round - including the Giants.

It would be interesting to know how NYG graded Adrian Amos, who went to the Bears at #142. On paper, at least, Amos and M.Thompson are similar prospects: young, big-school CB-to-S conversions with good size/speed numbers, though different frames. There would be few complaints if the Giants had taken Amos at #144. Maybe he's a better player, or maybe he just had a smoother transition to safety in 2013, and entered his final season with more positive buzz.
So much wasted energy and arguing  
Earl the goat : 5/3/2015 9:46 am : link
About a 5 th rounder. Everyone should just chill and let things play out until preseason and then make your critiques.
Terrible pick  
Marty866b : 5/3/2015 9:51 am : link
Not the player. You don't pick a player in the 5th round if he has a free agent grade. Thompson himself thought he would go undrafted. You don't think he asked around when he might be drafted? This is another Reese/Ross special that unfortunately we have seen before. How have the others worked out? The secret to good drafts is NEVER to reach for players.
Once the Giants  
mrvax : 5/3/2015 9:52 am : link
grabbed what appears to be 3 solid guys in rounds 1,2,3, I sort of expected them to rattle cages a little and shake out some guys that seem to have a promising future. It worked out with Will Hill and Victor Cruz.

Draft is a crap shoot. I hope their evals are good and they don't allow a player to be on the roster wasting a spot for 3 straight years like Robinson.

If they don't look solid after a 2nd year, get rid of them and pick again. (There are of course exceptions.)
We need to stop taking media mocks  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/3/2015 9:56 am : link
and evaluations as the gospel.

I spent a lot of time doing mock drafts for fun and every one of them had Eskridge, Drummond, Hackett, and Prewitt gone by the 5th. Prewitt was often picked before that. Does this mean Fanspeak knows more than 32 pro football teams? Of course not.

If 32 teams passed on these guys 7 times, guys that we "knew" were getting drafted then how can we be so arrogant as to assume we know where Thompson "should" have been drafted? How do we "know" that somebody else wasn't going to pick him in the 5th or 6th?

How many of you mocked Prewitt to us in the 3rd or 4th? Guess maybe we aren't the scouting geniuses we think we are? Just maybe?
RE: Terrible pick  
jcn56 : 5/3/2015 9:56 am : link
In comment 12268025 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Not the player. You don't pick a player in the 5th round if he has a free agent grade. Thompson himself thought he would go undrafted. You don't think he asked around when he might be drafted? This is another Reese/Ross special that unfortunately we have seen before. How have the others worked out? The secret to good drafts is NEVER to reach for players.


Who gave him a FA grade? Reese? Ross? The other 31 NFL GMs?

The draft guides give these guys grades, and based on how drafts tend to go, they're not terribly accurate once you get past the first round or so. To you, this is some horrible reach, but if our FO thought the guy was rated higher than the remaining players, then he was picked accordingly.

Three years from now, you can look back, see if anyone picked in this round and the next two turned out to be any better, and then point fingers at the rating scale, not the tendency to 'reach'.
RE: I basically like the 'We trust our scouts' philosophy.  
Reb8thVA : 5/3/2015 9:58 am : link
In comment 12268012 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
I would hope that there's some accountability when they go out a limb this way and get it wrong. (Who came up with Phillip Dillard, and where is that scout now?) But the basic approach makes sense to me. It beats having another generation of Maras pick players out of Street & Smith's College Football Guide.

The Mykkele Thompson pick is most fairly viewed in the context of the fifth round of this particular draft. If you look at the fifteen picks after M.Thompson, very few of them were highly regarded during the pre-draft buildup. One exception is Jay Ajayi, but he seems to have a huge medical red flag. So the Giants are far from the only team disregarding draftnik consensus and following their own board. Mykkele Thompson might be an extreme case, but he's hardly unique. If you're going to criticize the Thompson pick on the basis of opportunity cost, who would you have taken instead? Michael Bennett? He sat on the board until #180, perhaps because of size and a nagging injury that limited his workouts. Tony Lippett? The Giants may have simply liked Geremy Davis better. And who's to say Mykkele Thompson would have lasted until 186? He probably would have, but who knows?

Then there's the issue of the safety class. The next safety taken, Cedric Thompson (to Miami, six picks later at #150) is a player the Giants scouted thoroughly. They obviously preferred M.Thompson, and drafted accordingly. After the two Thompsons, no safety of any kind was taken until Jarrett at #181 to the Redskins. The next free safety was Derron Smith at #197 to the Bengals. Smith had a third- or fourth-round grade on lots of sites, but apparently no team saw him as good value before late in the sixth round - including the Giants.

It would be interesting to know how NYG graded Adrian Amos, who went to the Bears at #142. On paper, at least, Amos and M.Thompson are similar prospects: young, big-school CB-to-S conversions with good size/speed numbers, though different frames. There would be few complaints if the Giants had taken Amos at #144. Maybe he's a better player, or maybe he just had a smoother transition to safety in 2013, and entered his final season with more positive buzz.


Exactly. Look at all the big name Safeties that were supposed to go in rounds 2-4 and didn't get drafted. BBB is absolutely correct that the pick must be viewed in the context of the 5th round of THIS draft.
If the Giants had drafted Prewitt, Eskridge, Drummond, or Hackett...  
Klaatu : 5/3/2015 10:00 am : link
In the 5th round, no one would complain about it. Instead, we'd see things like "great value," "steal," "this kid's a player," etc., in numerous posts. Songs would be sung in Jerry Reese's honor.

But they didn't draft any of those guys - they drafted a kid that few, if any, had heard of - so we come to bury Reese, not to praise him.

But, you know what? 31 other teams passed on Prewitt, Eskridge, Drummond, and Hackett, too. We'll never know if any of those teams would've have drafted Thompson later on in Day 3. We'll never know if we could've signed him as a UDFA, assuming he went undrafted.

What we do know is that Thompson is on the team, and he'll have an opportunity to prove his doubters wrong. At this point, that's all you can ask for.
What it boils down to is this..  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/3/2015 10:02 am : link
People are upset that the Giants didn't pick a name they know. If they don't know his name he must not as good as a name they know, right?
the bitching from some about this pick is reaching historically  
GMenLTS : 5/3/2015 10:08 am : link
hilarious levels.
When Belichick  
KWALL2 : 5/3/2015 10:08 am : link
Drafted S Harmon from Rutgers in Round 3 a few years ago It was the same situation. Nobody expected Harmon to be drafted but NE saw something thud liked and drafted him much earlier than anybody expected including Hqrmon.

It happens. The team liked the player and how he fits with what we need.

I like the type of player we added. Fast and rangy coverage S. Exactly what we need.
RE: What it boils down to is this..  
Klaatu : 5/3/2015 10:09 am : link
In comment 12268041 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
People are upset that the Giants didn't pick a name they know. If they don't know his name he must not as good as a name they know, right?


Exactly.
His versatility  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 10:15 am : link
and athleticism and intelligence is what they like. He can play FS & SS along with slot CB. He is very, raw converting from WR to DB. He has a light frame but is a sure tackler. High reward low risk.
I watched all the UT games and he was just another guy out there  
PatersonPlank : 5/3/2015 10:20 am : link
I would not classify him as one of the leaders of the defense (Diggs was the secondary leader). I was shocked by the pick.
RE: All well and good Mike  
Mike in Boston : 5/3/2015 10:20 am : link
In comment 12267961 jeff57 said:
Quote:
But will you admit the pick was a waste if/when he turns out to be the Adrian Robinson of the safeties? And act as if Reese has no history of mid round flops come next year's draft?


Every GM has a history of mid and late round flops, because most players in the mid and late rounds don't every do much.
RE: the bitching from some about this pick is reaching historically  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2015 10:21 am : link
In comment 12268046 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
hilarious levels.


Yeah it's crazy. "Jerry reached again!" It's like some people will get made fun of on Monday morning at work because we took a guy not on everyone else's online draft board.
Oh, and I think Resses did very well last draft in the late rounds  
PatersonPlank : 5/3/2015 10:24 am : link
and in 2013 he was ok. I expect Taylor to contribute, and the books is still out on Nassib and Hermann. So I am not a guy who thinks Reese has done that poorly. I just question this guy.
If it winds up he and Collins  
Jay in Toronto : 5/3/2015 10:25 am : link
(a question TC rightfully ducked -- but he sounds open to it if they (esp Thompson) are ready) -- you have two smart guys at the back end who understand how to adjust a D. In this day and age (e. Eagles) where an up tempo offense makes subbing harder, last minute adjustments are critical.
A bunch on here effectively  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2015 10:29 am : link
said after the first 3 picks, "I don't care what happens after this given what we just did in rounds 1-3." Then, when the rest of the draft unfolded, the same people, who had NO IDEA who these unrecognizable names were, opined how disappointed they were with 5-7..Can't make this shit up..

Because of 5-7, many gave the draft a much lesser grade because of the no-names drafted there..Just check the draft grade thread..

B3, well thought out post per usual
Why is he a reach?  
Marty866b : 5/3/2015 10:31 am : link
No,it's not the draft magazines,or the guys on TV. These players have their agents and their coaches who ask scouts when do they believe this so and so player will be drafted. They have a pretty good idea when they will go. When a player believes he is not going to be drafted and goes as high as the 5th round you can question if he is a reach. Maybe he's not,but you have to have reservations about it.Time will tell.I hope he's great.
I also believe, fwiw,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2015 10:36 am : link
that too much was made out of Thompson's "surprise" over being drafted..If I had just one visit lined up, I would believe there's no way anyone would draft me, even by the one visit team that I saw..
Why wouldn't a team go greater risk vs reward with later picks?  
steve in ky : 5/3/2015 10:47 am : link
The further down you go in the draft the choices become limited. Do you take a player that you determine has obvious limitations because he has a higher public profile or gamble on a lesser known player who has the greater chance of a true upside even though he may need a little more work getting there. Some of the players passed on may if asked to immediately start do a better job but have little growth potential past the level they are at. Another player may need a little more coaching but has the skill set to where he has a chance of surpassing those other players.

No guarantees in the draft it is all about risk and reward. The higher rounds there are more players where the odds are in your favor without having to expose yourself to as much risk. The further down in the draft you go the more that formula starts to reverse itself.
Its a 5th round pick for goodness sakes  
Coach Mason : 5/3/2015 10:56 am : link
Do you know how often 5th round picks pan out? At this point of the draft ,you pick for projectable upside. Giant scouts saw something here with this kids athletic versatility and talent. In the 5th round it's worht the gamble.
I like Derron Smith's football intelligence as a rangy coverage guy  
Eric on Li : 5/3/2015 11:06 am : link
so to me that would have been a great value pick, but Thompson does bring more size/speed/athleticism to the table. Hopefully this guy is the next Sam Shields, or at minimum Bennett Jackson, who I thought looked very good in camp last year.
RE: Why wouldn't a team go greater risk vs reward with later picks?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/3/2015 11:12 am : link
In comment 12268107 steve in ky said:
Quote:
The further down you go in the draft the choices become limited. Do you take a player that you determine has obvious limitations because he has a higher public profile or gamble on a lesser known player who has the greater chance of a true upside even though he may need a little more work getting there.


^This

Derron Smith would have been heralded as a steal around here due to his success in the college game. However his size may make it very difficult for him to become an every-down safety. His ceiling is pretty low imo.
Reese could draft dog shit  
ZogZerg : 5/3/2015 12:13 pm : link
and some of you would defend it.

Last years 5th round picks looks pretty good. It wasn't some unheard of reach. It was a player who actually expected to be drafted and had a good track record at his position. Reese could have done the same thing this year and picked Mr learning how to tackle in the 7th round.
Bleacher Report  
bc4life : 5/3/2015 1:09 pm : link
and at least one other site talked about how much he progressed under Coach Strong. And suggested he would have benefited from another year of eligibility at UT. If there is any truth to that argument - it's all about how he gets coached up.
There have been five players drafted  
#10* : 5/3/2015 1:16 pm : link
in the 4th to 7th rounds under Jerry's supervision that have played well for the Giants.

Brandon Jacobs
Barry Cofield
Kevin Boss
Zak DeOssie
A. Bradshaw

That's from 2005 to 2013. That's nine years. That's like a 16% success rate. 84% bust rate. If someone sells me a fake item 8 out of 10 times i'm not buying from them anymore. You have a better chance of throwing a dart at an Ourlads book and picking a better player. Scouts make there money on rounds 4-7. How do the scouts defend that track record. Reese is only at fault because he hasn't made changes to personnel in that dept.

Some will say the Giants personnel know what there doing. For Decades the Knicks FO thought they knew what they were doing and we all know different. Yet they are "Professionals". If the Giants keep drafting this way and compensating by over paying Free Agents they will continue to miss the playoffs and Mara will continue to have fire everybody press conferences.
RE: Reese could draft dog shit  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/3/2015 1:26 pm : link
In comment 12268236 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Reese could have done the same thing this year and picked Mr learning how to tackle in the 7th round.


Again, how exactly do you know where he would have been drafted? Are you privy to the draft boards from the other 31 teams?

If you don't like the pick that is fine, nobody has a problem with others not liking the pick. The thing that is frustrating as shit is when some of you make definitive statements about where he could have been drafted or picked up after the draft. You are talking out your ass. You have no way of knowing that.
swirling eddie nailed it.  
Red Dog : 5/3/2015 1:32 pm : link
They should not have been in a position to have to force a pick like this.

That said, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one based on need and the scouting reports that I have read on the guy.

The real waste was the next pick on a sub-standard WR.

Red Dog  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 1:37 pm : link
Do you think before the pick that Reese and company said fellas let's draft a sub standard WR? Is that what you think they felt?
RE: There have been five players drafted  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2015 1:44 pm : link
In comment 12268328 #10* said:
Quote:
in the 4th to 7th rounds under Jerry's supervision that have played well for the Giants.

Brandon Jacobs
Barry Cofield
Kevin Boss
Zak DeOssie
A. Bradshaw

That's from 2005 to 2013. That's nine years. That's like a 16% success rate. 84% bust rate. If someone sells me a fake item 8 out of 10 times i'm not buying from them anymore. You have a better chance of throwing a dart at an Ourlads book and picking a better player. Scouts make there money on rounds 4-7. How do the scouts defend that track record. Reese is only at fault because he hasn't made changes to personnel in that dept.

Some will say the Giants personnel know what there doing. For Decades the Knicks FO thought they knew what they were doing and we all know different. Yet they are "Professionals". If the Giants keep drafting this way and compensating by over paying Free Agents they will continue to miss the playoffs and Mara will continue to have fire everybody press conferences.


Nothing personal, but this is incomplete imo..Incomplete as long as we don't have comparative success or failure rates from the 31 other teams in rounds 4-7..Without that comparative, we only have the biased assessment of Reese and Reese only..

Point? If he has in fact fucked up in the hit or miss fashion of the lower rounds, is that the relative norm in the league or is he, in fact, a fuck-up compared to his peers?
they don't care what the league norm is  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 1:48 pm : link
rounds 5-7, they only see what Reese has done through tunnel vision. It doesn't matter if he has had hits, it is easier to go after him for the misses even if the rest of the league averages more misses in rounds 5-7
RE: Late round picks are a crapshoot  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/3/2015 4:32 pm : link
In comment 12267946 spike said:
Quote:
Your guess is as good as mine

My biggest issue with that argument is that a relatively high 5th round pick should not necessarily be considered "late," per se. I believe part of the Giants' drafting woes stem from shifting to sleeper/project mode too early.
It may be a reach ...  
BronxBob : 5/3/2015 4:49 pm : link
... but I wouldn't call it a "classic" reach -- for reasons stated introducing this thread and other reasons. It's "classic" for the GIANTS to evaluate some players ahead of every other team, no question. But sometimes circumstances beyond your control dictate when you need to make a move. If you're watching players being taken and see very little correlation to your own board, and if you've been expecting to be able grab up a player in the 7th rather than let him drift to UDFA, a combination of factors might move you to pull the trigger a little sooner ... and in a soft draft, such a move is less of a reach.
There's no reason to take him without factoring round projection  
ChaChing : 5/3/2015 6:33 pm : link
IMO it was low risk to wait within or after the draft. Even if we miss, there's little chance a low rated player is that much better than a pool of players generally higher. He could be, but it's not a great bet (we made bigger bets on Moss & Barden and lost). That after signs of being a late choice if at all - draft boards, production, media, himself

So no one KNOWS but from that the guess is to fall. Not a huge loss if we miss, since we just pick a different 5th rounder. If we hit it's more value at multiple spots (if a 7th, 5+6 are better values). That's the risk of reaching, if available later we lose the added value. Important team-wide & long term

Nothing to do with how good MT is, our scouting, the first 3 picks, simply about value and efficiency. Since we can all agree there's been a bit of a talent vacuum across the team (see 0-6). Doesn't matter he's one of us, but for discussion sake
It must suck to be  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 6:44 pm : link
distraught about draft picks. These guys are now NY Giants and some of you are hoping Thompson Davis Hart flop so you could come back next year to bitch and moan about picks you never heard of to say just like Thompson Davis Hart wasted picks, Reese sucks.
Thompson made huge strides under Strong,  
DG : 5/3/2015 7:27 pm : link
particularly in the last 7 games of the 2014 season. I watched him progress last season. UT's player development under Mack Brown was practically non-existent. Thompson played against some of the best spread offenses in the country, he has the range to play FS. He's a more natural athlete and football player than the other 2 projects (Cooper Taylor and Nat Berhe.) He played much tougher competition than Berhe or Taylor. Evidently, the front office and coaching staff believes in his ability enough to draft him in the 5th round. I just wish he had played under Strong for more than one season.
I'm glad for us he didn't play for Strong  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 7:45 pm : link
for more than 1 season. If he did it sounds like he would be more advance and might of been a higher round pick that we would of had no shot at
Thompson  
Bill in TN : 5/3/2015 7:51 pm : link
Don't really have a gripe about him specifically.

I just cannot comprehend the fact that Reese/Ross absolutely WILL NOT draft a linebacker. It's as if they won't even acknowledge the position exists.

In this respect, IMO, they are assholes and failures.
They did sign FA's  
Headhunter : 5/3/2015 7:54 pm : link
& UDFA's. Maybe this year's LB sucked as a group as it was reported to be a very weak crop
HH . . .  
Bill in TN : 5/3/2015 8:18 pm : link
Acknowledge that they did sign 2 FAs which should help our specials at least. But the draft? They get LB rash or something. Can't see it.
I'm hopeful  
DG : 5/3/2015 8:31 pm : link
on Ferrand. Thought the Giants might take a flyer on Cobbs or Edmond from UT as UDFAs.
Rounds 5-7  
Rob in CT/NYC : 5/3/2015 8:42 pm : link
Have a VERY high bust rate historically. 70%+

And by bust I don't mean relative to expectations or a marginal NFL career - zero NFL career. To put that in perspective, Jacquian Williams was an extremely successful late round pick.

With that as the backdrop, it is very hard to take criticism of these picks seriously, particularly in what was obviously a shallow draft.
Interesting  
Rob in CT/NYC : 5/3/2015 8:44 pm : link
Article
Data - ( New Window )
The other part of the criticisms here, Rob,  
Randy in CT : 5/3/2015 9:23 pm : link
that's hard to take seriously is that I've seen few people talk about the player on the field. They are comparing draft guides and TV "experts" talk about the players.

Part of the franchise's ability to win so many Championships is that it is better at evaluating talent (for the most part) than many teams. So there will be times we select players that other team didn't haven't rated as high, because the team is damned good at their jobs. They don't always hit. No teams does. And these are later round picks that we're complaining about after 3 picks that were top notch players at need positions. deer baybee jeeziz helpus?
this  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2015 9:26 pm : link
pick doesn't bother me that much.

A lot of BBI'ers were saying, "when are they going to draft a FS?" even after they took Collins. Well, Thompson is a FS. He is one of those FS-CB tweeners now in vogue. Is he a good player? I have no idea. Draft guides and draftniks don't think so.

Eric... I would suggest you do this  
blueblood : 5/3/2015 10:27 pm : link
Look at the draft reports that you have on the site regarding Thompson...

And then go back and look at the draft reports from 2004 on BBI..

Both safeties with question marks coming out of college.. Both drafted in the fifth round..

Compare the reports..

Remarkably similar in many aspects..

Just food for thought...
Safety is a position that  
Rob in CT/NYC : 5/3/2015 10:28 pm : link
Is regularly misranked by pundits and guides - no one is mentioning that the consensus #1 safety wasn't the first safety taken, and that Damarious Randall himself said he was surprised the Packers took him.

Collins went 20-30 picks later than expected, yet everyone seems to trust where the same folks had a much later round prospect graded...

Further, in a shallow draft, the later rounds tend to get populated by guides and pundits with high production, large program, physically limited prospects (think Michael Bennett)...
I don't think we're going to look back at 2015 draft as a whole  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/4/2015 10:59 am : link
And think of it as a very good year.

I think this was a top-loaded draft and the players going on day 3 will be forgotten. So the Giants got what they thought was useful pieces, but in the end, it won't matter.
I think many here are getting too hung up on the fact that  
Section331 : 5/4/2015 11:09 am : link
Thompson thought he would go undrafted. That is no guarantee another team would take him. If you've seen him play and think he stinks, fair enough, but if you've never seen him play, I'm not sure how anyone could be so quick to criticize the pick.
Good News is this:  
idiotsavant : 5/4/2015 11:50 am : link
You now have a bunch of young kids - old farts all gone - and the yunguns will get reps and lots of time with the positional coaches and Spags.

They also look like a group that will hit the 'film room' (who knows, being polite)

Let's pretend that the team had film of Drummond in an al-queda training camp or something.

One caveat, when I did (an unrelated to sports research job), I used only my own research and did not rely on 'the dudes network'...now, some of those guys made more money (who didn't, fuchers). but:

any 'network' us liable to manipulation, i.e. "we are grabbing unknown player 'X' in round six if he is there"

(which could be total bullshit)
To be taken with a grain of salt, but..  
Headhunter : 5/4/2015 2:04 pm : link
As a man who formerly played against this guy, I would tell you that this man is highly competitive, hard-nosed, and a physical nightmare to both cover and run against.

As a giants fan, I'm excited to see another longhorn beside C.B. and Aaron Ross be on the roster at this time. This guy has Jerry Reese pick written all over him as he is a physical freak with great potiental for a high football acumen. The man may make the final roster as a special teams ace, but will develop quite nicely into something more.


and this one



Texas Fan here, Giants, what you got is an elite athlete who was really starting to develop into a solid player under Charlie Strong. Before Charlie was hired Mykelle was soft as a pillow, but he's turned into a more complete safety. He can also play corner if needed. There are no limitations on him physically, he's as athletic as any DB in this draft, he just needs to develop with his attitude in the game. He's not a dog yet.
this pick certainly debunks the idea that Reese  
Jersey55 : 5/4/2015 5:10 pm : link
never reaches for a player in the draft and takes the BPA on their board.....
and you know  
bc4life : 5/4/2015 5:37 pm : link
for certain what their board looked like at the time?
not sure  
bc4life : 5/4/2015 5:46 pm : link
if this has been posted and I'm too lazy to check.
Thompson's struggles and growth - ( New Window )
RE: and you know  
GMenLTS : 5/4/2015 6:55 pm : link
In comment 12270720 bc4life said:
Quote:
for certain what their board looked like at the time?


Based on the reactions to this pick, the number of posters who got a glimpse at our board and the boards of other teams is astoundingly high.

Who knew BBI was so clued in all over the NFL?
The Giants don't compare notes  
Headhunter : 5/4/2015 7:03 pm : link
where other teams have players slotted. They work in a vacuum. They have people follow the media reports on what teams might be doing. They assign a grade and a row and they stick to it. Their grade on Thompson was their own. They could not care less if every other team in the league did not grade him. So this wasn't a reach to Reese
sounds like they used a metric most of us dont  
idiotsavant : 5/4/2015 8:37 pm : link
(and I did not look at all this year)

"growth" or "improvement factor"

I.e., 'does a given kid learn and improve/respond to coaching, how much and how quickly'

if so, and if the kid in question does, that counts for a lot.

having said that, only 2 INTs, I look at the idea that spatial (field vision) is innate, i.e. endemic, more so than learnable...so...that would indicate the other side of the coin.
RE: Hmmmm  
Great White Ghost : 5/4/2015 8:48 pm : link
In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:
Quote:
..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..
who has shown nothing so far....
RE: Giants knew it was going to be a weak year for drafting at safety  
Great White Ghost : 5/4/2015 8:53 pm : link
In comment 12267997 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
they did nothing about it in the free agent market. They had a bad plan for filling their needs at safety.

That's a little premature, no?
RE: swirling eddie nailed it.  
Great White Ghost : 5/4/2015 9:02 pm : link
In comment 12268348 Red Dog said:
Quote:
They should not have been in a position to have to force a pick like this.

That said, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one based on need and the scouting reports that I have read on the guy.

The real waste was the next pick on a sub-standard WR.
And there you have it.They shouldn't be forced into picks like this. The fact is there is a price to be paid for shitty drafting. The price, specifically is that you have to give more consideration to need, than grades.

I don't think this was a bad draft in and of itself, but the fact that it was a largely need dictated draft has to be considered, and the fact that when that's the case, opportunities to get the highest graded players go by the wayside as you pick for need to fill the gaping holes, and you wind up with a compromised roster until it gets sorted out. It's a hole that once you get into is very hard to ever get out of.the effects of earlier shitty drafts are compounded by compromised drafting, even if in later drafts you did the best you could all things considered. it would be nice to get back to drafting the highest graded players, maybe next year if the current roster works out.
Compared scouting reports on Thompson and Gibril Wilson  
blueblood : 5/4/2015 10:07 pm : link
and they are very similar in quite a few aspects
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