The Thompson Pick

We have a winner!

of the night. I do agree it was an especially weak draft. Even the player was surprised.

That there was interest from other teams in Thompson to justify the 5th rd selection. There is no way we can know.

Jerry reach. The one thing that made me think was when Ross (iirc) said this guy blew them away on the whiteboard. In other words, he is football smart - knows his position and assignment and can read plays. Over half the battle is reading the play and making the right choice.

I think his only obvious problem is strength. He (like almost all NFL rookies) is a little slight in the pants. He's pretty quick. I guess he is supposed to be very good on specials too.

Time will tell.

In terms of this guys talent versus any other's we simply don't have anywhere near the same information as the guys making these picks.

This is true. But Reese's mid round track record doesn't give me confidence.

was putting the team in the position where they had to draft a FS in the first place.

There was just so much talent on the board, this is the time to draft the best talent on the board and not waste a pick on a player that would have been an UDFA. The Giants have the second worse run defense and now with Cleveland draft the Giants will more likely now have the worse run defense. With a number of TE and DT's still on the board, I just don't understand this wasted pick? Another C grade draft.

really that concerned about another team signing him as an URFA. I'm trying to remember when the last time one of these worked out. I would rather go with a "troubled player who dropped" in this spot then a complete reach.

talking about, not number 25.

..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..

In comment 12267929 JCin332 said:

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..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick..

Your point being?

the point made "that based on previous picks in the same round he will be a reach bust". If you were talking about inate objects that were clones of previous busts or reaches, I might understand . You are comparing human beings with different skill sets, personalities, work ethics, intangibles, etc
You have to stop and think how stupid that sounds to anyone with half a brain. This isn't apples to apples, this is apples to tomatoes

In comment 12267922 chiefmps said:

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There was just so much talent on the board, this is the time to draft the best talent on the board and not waste a pick on a player that would have been an UDFA. The Giants have the second worse run defense and now with Cleveland draft the Giants will more likely now have the worse run defense. With a number of TE and DT's still on the board, I just don't understand this wasted pick? Another C grade draft.

Did you forget Kenrick Ellis (better than any DT in the 5th or maybe even the 3nd round) and George Selvie?

In comment 12267931 jeff57 said:

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In comment 12267929 JCin332 said: Quote: ..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick.. Your point being?

My point being looks like that pick has turned out to be pretty solid..

In comment 12267934 Headhunter said:

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the point made "that based on previous picks in the same round he will be a reach bust". If you were talking about inate objects that were clones of previous busts or reaches, I might understand . You are comparing human beings with different skill sets, personalities, work ethics, intangibles, etc You have to stop and think how stupid that sounds to anyone with half a brain. This isn't apples to apples, this is apples to tomatoes

By thy fruits, ye shall know them.

who probably working on an assembly line doing the same thing over and over every day to come up that lazy argument

who probably working on an assembly line doing the same thing over and over every day to come up that lazy argument

But from his highlights you can still see some great things. I don't know if he does them all the time but the potential is there. He wraps up when he tackles which is very rare and very important at that level of the defense. He also glides when he runs. He's very smooth. That makes me think that he should be able to flip his hips very well. You also see him in multiple roles making plays. That's not easy to do so mentally he sounds ready for the safety position. He just probably needs some coaching and experience. I don't want to go into anything more because highlight only tell what a player is capable of. However, he has a nice set of skills to work with.

Your guess is as good as mine

In comment 12267936 JCin332 said:

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In comment 12267931 jeff57 said: Quote: In comment 12267929 JCin332 said: Quote: ..these comments sounds a lot like the reaction people had last year to the Bromley pick.. Your point being? My point being looks like that pick has turned out to be pretty solid..

Based on what exactly?

reach. Classic Reese "I'm smarter than everyone else" pick. Reese has been drafting major reaches with day three picks for years, which is why there is no depth across so many positions. We still have no OL depth, and the worst TEs in the league. Prior to the draft you could have included safeties as well.

Thompson wasn't even considered draftable. He would have been around in the seventh.

Although rated low by CBS/NFL Draft Scout, people who watched more Texas games than I did discussed his tremendous progress with one year of coaching from Charlie Strong. This pick is not about what he is now, but what he could be in the future with better coaching in the NFL. Victor Cruz was a UDFA who nobody had heard of, but looking back I am sure some scouts are saying "I wish my team had listened to me and drafted him in Round X". Just because teams did not bring him in for a personal interview doesn't mean he wasn't on the radar of other teams. Area scouts will meet informally with players while scouting at a school and the scouts from various teams do talk because you just cannot be everywhere at all times

he wasn't listed in Wally Dimple's Draft Guide. So what if Reese has more information on him than Wally Dimple, so what if they scouted him, flew him in for an interview, worked him out. if Wally Dimple doesn't list him he must be no good. Just because there are a ton of NFL players who were late round picks that nobody including Wally Dimple, this guy will be a bust

the drafting of Thompson, Davis, and Hart are like the selection of Bromley last year. Reaches by Reese and Ross that are not supportable by anyone else in the business of evaluating talent in the draft. Dismiss this if you chose but that is MO.

But will you admit the pick was a waste if/when he turns out to be the Adrian Robinson of the safeties? And act as if Reese has no history of mid round flops come next year's draft?

GM gets pretty much universally praised for top 3 picks, knows that after each round there are more holes in the players available game's or they would have been drafted decides to grab diamonds in the rough that might not translate to NFL quality with late round picks, players that he might not get as UDFA's cause they can go where they want. Risk and reward from the 5th round on is very acceptable to me

Easy big guy. Most of these people don't go as far as reading a draft guide. That is way too much effort. They watch ESPN and watch their "guru" tell them which are the next best players out there. If you pick someone else the GM is an idiot.

And by the way, I agree about Bromley. He is going to shine this year.

with good athleticism in a league where versatility is growing in importance--- seems a humble kid as well who admits to not having a great final campaign- I liked the pick--- so many people just look at the "boards" and think they are some bible... after the 3rd round its kind of a crap shoot-

Most everyone has names no one had listed. ...

You include a 7th round 6-6 329 lb. OL pick (that has started on a national championship team as a reach? What do you expect in the 7th? Hart was a good late round pick.

they did nothing about it in the free agent market. They had a bad plan for filling their needs at safety.

Has the post that summarizes all we need know at this point about Thompson.

Its not easy to keep in mind and make plays from multiple positions. Its one thing to "know" several languages and another to switch back and forth easily in real time.

DB that are smart and versatile are hard to find and important to find because there are always injuries ...even during games.

If you notice the Giants drafted or FA signed several guys who can fill more than one slot and can be good special teams players.....roster flexibility and depth means carrying a better overall talent base to develop

id rather the last DB be position flexible than just play one position. How many times have we had to hire or find someone off the street who did not know our schemes mid year?

Reminded me of the end of the 2009 draft...

No matter how you justify this pick, it could have been made in the 6th (if you really thought another team had contacted him) or the 7th, not an upper 5th. This is a Reese pick that will "live in infamy" from now on, at least every draft day 3.

You will probably laugh, but barring health complicating a comparison between players -

Kendrick Ellis will provide as much to the Giants defense in 2015 as Danny Shelton would have.

With Bromley also in the mix, Giants should not have been looking to load up on DTs, particularly if they are going to be part-time players.

I have no trouble with our 3 last picks particularly if a year on the PS is looked at as a normal development possibility.

The seventh rd WR likes to play on specials and is a red zone threat that is not afraid to go over the middle. Since Washington does not play specials or seem to be ok going over the middle....if this pick works...we picked up depth at two positions and not one.

The result? Maybe its keeping Ayers or Cruz off IR so late year they start to make more and more contributions. Or keeping 10 OL or 10 DL or 7 WR

smart attempts at roster management

I would hope that there's some accountability when they go out a limb this way and get it wrong. (Who came up with Phillip Dillard, and where is that scout now?) But the basic approach makes sense to me. It beats having another generation of Maras pick players out of Street & Smith's College Football Guide.

The Mykkele Thompson pick is most fairly viewed in the context of the fifth round of this particular draft. If you look at the fifteen picks after M.Thompson, very few of them were highly regarded during the pre-draft buildup. One exception is Jay Ajayi, but he seems to have a huge medical red flag. So the Giants are far from the only team disregarding draftnik consensus and following their own board. Mykkele Thompson might be an extreme case, but he's hardly unique. If you're going to criticize the Thompson pick on the basis of opportunity cost, who would you have taken instead? Michael Bennett? He sat on the board until #180, perhaps because of size and a nagging injury that limited his workouts. Tony Lippett? The Giants may have simply liked Geremy Davis better. And who's to say Mykkele Thompson would have lasted until 186? He probably would have, but who knows?

Then there's the issue of the safety class. The next safety taken, Cedric Thompson (to Miami, six picks later at #150) is a player the Giants scouted thoroughly. They obviously preferred M.Thompson, and drafted accordingly. After the two Thompsons, no safety of any kind was taken until Jarrett at #181 to the Redskins. The next free safety was Derron Smith at #197 to the Bengals. Smith had a third- or fourth-round grade on lots of sites, but apparently no team saw him as good value before late in the sixth round - including the Giants.

It would be interesting to know how NYG graded Adrian Amos, who went to the Bears at #142. On paper, at least, Amos and M.Thompson are similar prospects: young, big-school CB-to-S conversions with good size/speed numbers, though different frames. There would be few complaints if the Giants had taken Amos at #144. Maybe he's a better player, or maybe he just had a smoother transition to safety in 2013, and entered his final season with more positive buzz.

About a 5 th rounder. Everyone should just chill and let things play out until preseason and then make your critiques.

Not the player. You don't pick a player in the 5th round if he has a free agent grade. Thompson himself thought he would go undrafted. You don't think he asked around when he might be drafted? This is another Reese/Ross special that unfortunately we have seen before. How have the others worked out? The secret to good drafts is NEVER to reach for players.

grabbed what appears to be 3 solid guys in rounds 1,2,3, I sort of expected them to rattle cages a little and shake out some guys that seem to have a promising future. It worked out with Will Hill and Victor Cruz.

Draft is a crap shoot. I hope their evals are good and they don't allow a player to be on the roster wasting a spot for 3 straight years like Robinson.

If they don't look solid after a 2nd year, get rid of them and pick again. (There are of course exceptions.)

and evaluations as the gospel.

I spent a lot of time doing mock drafts for fun and every one of them had Eskridge, Drummond, Hackett, and Prewitt gone by the 5th. Prewitt was often picked before that. Does this mean Fanspeak knows more than 32 pro football teams? Of course not.

If 32 teams passed on these guys 7 times, guys that we "knew" were getting drafted then how can we be so arrogant as to assume we know where Thompson "should" have been drafted? How do we "know" that somebody else wasn't going to pick him in the 5th or 6th?

How many of you mocked Prewitt to us in the 3rd or 4th? Guess maybe we aren't the scouting geniuses we think we are? Just maybe?

In comment 12268025 Marty866b said:

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Not the player. You don't pick a player in the 5th round if he has a free agent grade. Thompson himself thought he would go undrafted. You don't think he asked around when he might be drafted? This is another Reese/Ross special that unfortunately we have seen before. How have the others worked out? The secret to good drafts is NEVER to reach for players.

Who gave him a FA grade? Reese? Ross? The other 31 NFL GMs?

The draft guides give these guys grades, and based on how drafts tend to go, they're not terribly accurate once you get past the first round or so. To you, this is some horrible reach, but if our FO thought the guy was rated higher than the remaining players, then he was picked accordingly.

Three years from now, you can look back, see if anyone picked in this round and the next two turned out to be any better, and then point fingers at the rating scale, not the tendency to 'reach'.

In comment 12268012 Big Blue Blogger said:

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I would hope that there's some accountability when they go out a limb this way and get it wrong. (Who came up with Phillip Dillard, and where is that scout now?) But the basic approach makes sense to me. It beats having another generation of Maras pick players out of Street & Smith's College Football Guide. The Mykkele Thompson pick is most fairly viewed in the context of the fifth round of this particular draft. If you look at the fifteen picks after M.Thompson, very few of them were highly regarded during the pre-draft buildup. One exception is Jay Ajayi, but he seems to have a huge medical red flag. So the Giants are far from the only team disregarding draftnik consensus and following their own board. Mykkele Thompson might be an extreme case, but he's hardly unique. If you're going to criticize the Thompson pick on the basis of opportunity cost, who would you have taken instead? Michael Bennett? He sat on the board until #180, perhaps because of size and a nagging injury that limited his workouts. Tony Lippett? The Giants may have simply liked Geremy Davis better. And who's to say Mykkele Thompson would have lasted until 186? He probably would have, but who knows? Then there's the issue of the safety class. The next safety taken, Cedric Thompson (to Miami, six picks later at #150) is a player the Giants scouted thoroughly. They obviously preferred M.Thompson, and drafted accordingly. After the two Thompsons, no safety of any kind was taken until Jarrett at #181 to the Redskins. The next free safety was Derron Smith at #197 to the Bengals. Smith had a third- or fourth-round grade on lots of sites, but apparently no team saw him as good value before late in the sixth round - including the Giants. It would be interesting to know how NYG graded Adrian Amos, who went to the Bears at #142. On paper, at least, Amos and M.Thompson are similar prospects: young, big-school CB-to-S conversions with good size/speed numbers, though different frames. There would be few complaints if the Giants had taken Amos at #144. Maybe he's a better player, or maybe he just had a smoother transition to safety in 2013, and entered his final season with more positive buzz.

Exactly. Look at all the big name Safeties that were supposed to go in rounds 2-4 and didn't get drafted. BBB is absolutely correct that the pick must be viewed in the context of the 5th round of THIS draft.

In the 5th round, no one would complain about it. Instead, we'd see things like "great value," "steal," "this kid's a player," etc., in numerous posts. Songs would be sung in Jerry Reese's honor.

But they didn't draft any of those guys - they drafted a kid that few, if any, had heard of - so we come to bury Reese, not to praise him.

But, you know what? 31 other teams passed on Prewitt, Eskridge, Drummond, and Hackett, too. We'll never know if any of those teams would've have drafted Thompson later on in Day 3. We'll never know if we could've signed him as a UDFA, assuming he went undrafted.

What we do know is that Thompson is on the team, and he'll have an opportunity to prove his doubters wrong. At this point, that's all you can ask for.

People are upset that the Giants didn't pick a name they know. If they don't know his name he must not as good as a name they know, right?

hilarious levels.

Drafted S Harmon from Rutgers in Round 3 a few years ago It was the same situation. Nobody expected Harmon to be drafted but NE saw something thud liked and drafted him much earlier than anybody expected including Hqrmon.

It happens. The team liked the player and how he fits with what we need.

I like the type of player we added. Fast and rangy coverage S. Exactly what we need.

In comment 12268041 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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People are upset that the Giants didn't pick a name they know. If they don't know his name he must not as good as a name they know, right?

Exactly.

and athleticism and intelligence is what they like. He can play FS & SS along with slot CB. He is very, raw converting from WR to DB. He has a light frame but is a sure tackler. High reward low risk.