Before my time - was it as bad as the goddamned Ron Francis goal in 1992 that still haunts my memories after 23 years?
From purely a goaltending standpoint yes, further away. From a personal standpoint, no, the Francis goal was a killer. Turned that whole series around. They were about to go home up 3-1 before that fiasco despite the Lemieux Academy Award performance that led to Graves suspension.
I mean, the 1994 Rangers barely squeaked by a mediocre Vancouver team to win that one, and good lord, look at the kind of talent that team had. Messier, one of the greatest to ever lace up skates. Brian Leetch at his peak. A perennial All Star at 2C in Steve Larmer. A budding All-Star in Zubov. One of the most talented Rangers ever in Kovalev. A tough as nails garbage guy who had a 50 goal season that year in Graves. If this team could add any of those guys they'd be so much better....and yet that team almost didn't even make it to the Final.
McD winding up not pulling the trigger with his momentum
moving toward the net and not far from the top of the faceoff circle with no one close to him was unforgiveable. Instead he chose to throw a pass down low to a winger who had his back to McD as he was doing the right thing by going to the net. That play exemplifies much of what we've been witnessing.
Always had sympathy for Stealing Society, he was/is one deeply tormented dude.
Sonic, if you are old enough to remember, that has been the Rangers history. '71, beat the defending champion Bruins, lose to the Blackhawks in 7 in the semi finals. '72, Ratelle breaks his ankle,lose in the Finals to Boston, '73, beat Boston, lose to Chicago again, '74 lose to the Flyers in 7 in the semis, it goes on and on. JP PArise, Mikko Leninen whiffing on the winner against the Fishsticks, Ron Francis.
But he was an overage player in the WHL. Hard to get too excited about his numbers given that. I'd wait and see what he does in Hartford next year before projecting much from him.
I say this once a year, but fuck the Rangers' luck. Not just for the key injuries that happen every damn year around playoff time, but because Cherepanov was going to be that guy for them. That kid had true superstar potential.
Every single team in the NHL is looking to add a guy with "great scoring ability"
Easier said than done. And there's a salary cap.
Hopefully we see Buchnevich next season rather than the 2016-17 season.
I get it. But while many teams have other holes we have the rest. Great coach/system, goaltending, strong defense, speed to burn etc.
Teams that close to winning a cup are usually more aggressive finding that final piece.
Well, that's kind of how it goes.. it's nearly impossible to build the perfect/complete team. A lot of teams with an elite scorer are pining for help in net or on the blue line or don't have depth. The Rangers are pretty close to being a complete team. They're as close as I've seen since '94.
This team is good enough to win a Cup this year but as Greg said, it's really really fucking hard to do even with a really good team. It's a gauntlet and so many factors come into play.
And in 1996 when the disasterous trade with the Kings sent the team into a tailspin late in the year. IIRC, the Penguins scored a goal in that series that deflected off Beukeboom's face, which I've never seen before or since.
Effort isn't his problem. His problem is that he's small and slow, and his superior puck skills and shot have deteriorated with age. I do feel for him because the guy clearly is giving it max effort, but he just isn't particularly good anymore. Same thing with Marty. Getting old is a bitch.
I keep trying to give Yandle a pass because the guy is an excellent skater and a really good passer but it's hard to justify what we traded away for him given what the return has been thus far.
I have a hard time believing we wouldn't still be in the playoffs now if we had John Moore or Hunwick getting those minutes.
I hated the Yandle trade the moment it was announced
And after I bitched about it for the first few days, I tried to shut up and give him a chance to make me change my mind.....but I hate it more now that I did at the deadline. He's giving them nothing on offense and his defense is a joke.
Which I think puts them below a couple teams who have already been eliminated. It's the same crap every year. They have a world-class goalie and a great defense, but the offense always flames out in the playoffs. Nash was a superstar in the regular season, but can't light the lamp in the playoffs. Gaborik was the same way, so was Jagr. I know the games get tighter and the opposing defenses get better, but I still think there's more to the offensive evaporation. Chicago has 27 goals to the Rangers' 15 and they've played the same number of games. The Rangers have fewer goals than a team that's been eliminated already (Nashville, 21).
and I honestly think the MSL trade was awful as well.
There was no need to throw that 2nd first in. Cally is better than MSL. The writing was on the wall with a 37 year old tiny player, no matter how good of a season he was having. I wish the conditional first was the only first in the deal, but the fact that it was 2 first rounders was a joke.
And the Yandle trade is shaping up to be a bag of shit also. We have given up 4 first round picks in order to make the team worse. If you replaced MSL with Cally, we'd be a better team. I get that we saved money and got something for Cally, so I would be down with a MSL for Cally trade, but man it would have been much better if we traded Cally for prospects or at least someone younger if we were going to give up 1 first rounders.
Side note: does anyone else think the Rangers would have at least made the finals in 2011 if Phaneuf doesn't level Sauer and end his career? Michael Sauer would really be a welcome addition to this team.
Side note #2: Does McIlrath really suck that badly? How did Sather blow that pick so badly?
He was the only one of their defenseman who was a really physical thumper. They miss that.
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
with whom I've been going back and forth with on Boyle's ineffectiveness but this goes back to earlier in the season. He likes Boyle and thinks he plays the right way in this system but I've had a hard time overlooking his many inadequacies in the defensive zone, not to mention the reason he was brought here which was to QB the PP, and we all know that hasn't materialized. At any rate, in the immediate aftermath of the Yandle trade he said to me something to the effect of, if you think Boyle is horrible in his own end and is a turnover machine, wait til you get a load of Yandle. Needless to say, I had no idea it could be this bad but being that he's watched an awful lot of Yandle over the years, he was sadly right on the money.
with whom I've been going back and forth with on Boyle's ineffectiveness but this goes back to earlier in the season.
At any rate, in the immediate aftermath of the Yandle trade he said to me something to the effect of, if you think Boyle is horrible in his own end and is a turnover machine, wait til you get a load of Yandle. Needless to say, I had no idea it could be this bad but being that he's watched an awful lot of Yandle over the years, he was sadly right on the money.
Boyle was a disaster in the playoffs last year in San Jose while the pretty skating Yandle has his peaks and valleys.
The team should have kept Stralman and Boyle rather than another old guy and losing DuClair and a #1 pick for Yandle.
is strictly based on offense. The defensive lapses are acceptable if they are helping the team score. Henrik and the rest of the team can cover the defensive issues, but if they're not contributing on offense they are a waste of roster spots. In this series, the Caps have two spectacular goals by Ovechkin, a goal by Ward due to a collective brain fart by the non-dazed Rangers on the ice, and a bad luck double deflection off a skate. That is acceptable defense for any playoff series if the offense is contributing.
He was the only one of their defenseman who was a really physical thumper. They miss that.
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
Agreed, Sauer had a combination of size with a natural physical side and he could skate ...that was a massive loss. He would have solidified the backline 2nd or 3rd pairing big time.
And in 1996 when the disasterous trade with the Kings sent the team into a tailspin late in the year. IIRC, the Penguins scored a goal in that series that deflected off Beukeboom's face, which I've never seen before or since.
Yep. You could go on and on. Trading Mattias Norstrom and ending up with Marty fucking McSorley. The Bobby Carpenter trade, the Espo/Vadnais for Ratelle/Park trade. Trading Sergei Zubov for Ulf Samuelsson instead of getting Samuelsson to play WITH Zubov. Their power play has been in steady decline since. Breaking off talks to get Jagr in 2000 and signing Lindros instead. UGH
While Boyle and Yandle are defensive liabilities, it is our offense that is sinking us again. You can't win if you don't score, we scored 4 goals in three games. Our defense has been more than adequate this series. We need to find the back of the net and we will win this series.
The idea that Keith Yandle is the difference maker is a joke
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:24 pm : link
.
Quote:
he's sure as hell not fast
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 7:49 pm : link
Average speed, maybe.
Could have had Stralman AND Duclair and no Boyle, and now they overpay like a motherfucker for 18 months of an overrated offense-only defenseman.
Quote:
Keith Yandle is not a great player
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:16 pm : link
He's a defenseman who can score but is neither fast nor physical and stinks in his own end. OEL he ain't- now THAT is a great player.
If the Rangers had to give up Duclair, the least they could have done was to demand that Arizona take Girardi'Girardi ' s albatross of a contract off their hands.
Quote:
scoring was not this team's problem
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:45 pm : link
And the idea that the lack of the mythical PPQB was the missing piece is silly. They need help in preventing scoring chances and goals.
Yandle is better than Boyle, but still a very similar player. You know, Boyle' s Corsi is pretty good too, because his minutes are sheltered as hell. Same thing with Yandle.
It's going to be a blast watching him walk in 2016 while Duclair blossoms. If this team doesn't win by next year, this deal is a massive failure.
I hated the MSL trade more for the #1 and #2 as much or more
He was the only one of their defenseman who was a really physical thumper. They miss that.
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
Agreed, Sauer had a combination of size with a natural physical side and he could skate ...that was a massive loss. He would have solidified the backline 2nd or 3rd pairing big time.
Wish he was still on the team. Would change a lot of things. It's baffling to me that a concussion can end a career the way it ended Sauer's. I wonder what the full story is about that.
for why Stralman was let go while Boyle was signed for comparable money. Fucking stupid.
It's tough to get on a team that won the President's trophy, but bad luck and bad trades have made this team way worse than it could have been.
Sauer being healthy? Stralman being let go? The Yandle trade? Hell, if you REALLY want to go back, think about the potential if Cherapenov didn't die.
Obviously this is a stupid exercise because of the butterfly effect - things wouldn't be the same that they are now. But I do think that this team would be better (the Nash trade might not have happened though).
it's funny that the team wasn't scoring even with Nash AND Gabby on the same fucking team!
WHY CAN'T THE RANGERS SCORE? WHY DOES THEIR POWER PLAY ALWAYS SUCK?
the Rangers didn't come back against the Pens last year until we had a eulogy, so maybe it will have the same positive effect this year. ;) I don't think the Rangers are done; I'm just frustrated that they're playing with fire when they don't have to out of stubbornness or pride.
the post-mortem we had here after game 4 of the Penguins series last year.
This series isn't fucking over, far from it. Have some faith in this group that's had a lot of success the last four seasons.
I agree.
I thought the team was done last year down 3-1. They looked like shit. This year, they look okay and are outplaying Washington (slightly, but still). I think this is going 7.
I'm not looking to start the tiresome Callahan trade arguments again because Callahan was never going to be on the 2015 Rangers regardless, but they do miss him because he was the only garbageman they've had in recent years. That's the kind of guy they really could use now to pick up an ugly goal when they can't score the pretty goals.
Whatever. I can't believe people are panicking at a 1-2 deficit. They've lost one game because they inexplicably stopped playing with 5 seconds to go and another because of one fluke goal. I get that they're not scoring, and yes it's infuriating, and yes they have to do better, but this isn't anything like the 2013 series with Boston (to use the last series they were just flat out outclassed as an example). The Caps simply aren't anything special outside of Ovechkin. The Rangers will have every chance to win this. Whether or not they take it, who knows, but they're absolutely in it.
Good post.
Holtby is literally the only reason this series isn't 3-0 Rangers right now.
The caps just aren't a good team.
Let's hope he isn't the reason the Caps are in the semi-finals and the Rangers can take advantage. I just want to get to Friday 2-2 and take it from there.
Rangers win tomorrow night and all the "Debbie Downer" talk
will disappear. It's funny to say - and maybe I'm dreaming - but even when Nash was at the height of his goal scoring streak, this Rangers team was about a lot more than Rick Nash. The Rangers moving up in the standings while Lundqvist was out for 20 games is who this Rangers' team was all about. All four lines. All 21 players. And resilient as hell.
Maybe they won't get past the Capitals. But to suggest this series is over is nonsense. The Capitals had a chance last night to come home and dominate. Anyone who thinks they succeeded is nuts.
The Rangers are once again getting stoned by a hot goalie just like last year and not a lot of puck luck. The Caps power play is a impotent as the Rangers and they haven't exactly put pucks in the back of the net with any regularity either.
The Rangers problem is they appear to be snake bitten in this series andthey don't have a whole hell of a lot of time to change things. I had a bad feeling after the way they lost the first game and that feeling is getting stronger with each passing minute.
It's almost like people thought we'd glide all the way through..
...and would never trail in any series all the way to a Stanley Cup.
These are the NHL playoffs. There's going to be adversity. The Rangers are a resilient bunch and a lot of these guys have plenty of experience. They know what they need to do and they'll get it done.
We can get panicky if the Caps win again tomorrow night and put them on the ropes. I don't think it'll happen.
The team hasn't been generating a lot of scoring chances
During these playoffs. Outside of game five in Pittsburgh, I have a hard time thinking of an outstanding goaltending performance by the opponent. The games have been tight and the Rangers haven't done enough. There's at least two more games to change that.
I'd like to see Nash paired with Hayes. He's the one Center
and had great looks in game 2 - we had 6 high quality scoring chances in the 2nd period alone (which was actually our worst period as far as carrying play). Holtby was up to the task or we would have scored 6 times Saturday.
But we certainly didnt build on that in game 3 - there was nothing difficult or exceptional about Holtby's shutout performance on monday.
Easier said than done. And there's a salary cap.
Hopefully we see Buchnevich next season rather than the 2016-17 season.
Quote:
one of the all time bad goals
Before my time - was it as bad as the goddamned Ron Francis goal in 1992 that still haunts my memories after 23 years?
From purely a goaltending standpoint yes, further away. From a personal standpoint, no, the Francis goal was a killer. Turned that whole series around. They were about to go home up 3-1 before that fiasco despite the Lemieux Academy Award performance that led to Graves suspension.
Easier said than done. And there's a salary cap.
Hopefully we see Buchnevich next season rather than the 2016-17 season.
I get it. But while many teams have other holes we have the rest. Great coach/system, goaltending, strong defense, speed to burn etc.
Teams that close to winning a cup are usually more aggressive finding that final piece.
Always had sympathy for Stealing Society, he was/is one deeply tormented dude.
Easier said than done. And there's a salary cap.
Hopefully we see Buchnevich next season rather than the 2016-17 season.
What about this Tambellini kid we just signed to an ELC? He had a shitload of points this year - do they project anything on him?
And fuck -- why arent other teams losing key players to freak 'friendly fire' injuries like we seem to do all the time!?
Sonic, if you are old enough to remember, that has been the Rangers history. '71, beat the defending champion Bruins, lose to the Blackhawks in 7 in the semi finals. '72, Ratelle breaks his ankle,lose in the Finals to Boston, '73, beat Boston, lose to Chicago again, '74 lose to the Flyers in 7 in the semis, it goes on and on. JP PArise, Mikko Leninen whiffing on the winner against the Fishsticks, Ron Francis.
Teams that close to winning a cup are usually more aggressive finding that final piece.
We just bet the house on Yandle. I thought we'd get more -- he still has a few games to turn this thing around.
I say this once a year, but fuck the Rangers' luck. Not just for the key injuries that happen every damn year around playoff time, but because Cherepanov was going to be that guy for them. That kid had true superstar potential.
Quote:
Every single team in the NHL is looking to add a guy with "great scoring ability"
Easier said than done. And there's a salary cap.
Hopefully we see Buchnevich next season rather than the 2016-17 season.
I get it. But while many teams have other holes we have the rest. Great coach/system, goaltending, strong defense, speed to burn etc.
Teams that close to winning a cup are usually more aggressive finding that final piece.
Well, that's kind of how it goes.. it's nearly impossible to build the perfect/complete team. A lot of teams with an elite scorer are pining for help in net or on the blue line or don't have depth. The Rangers are pretty close to being a complete team. They're as close as I've seen since '94.
This team is good enough to win a Cup this year but as Greg said, it's really really fucking hard to do even with a really good team. It's a gauntlet and so many factors come into play.
I keep trying to give Yandle a pass because the guy is an excellent skater and a really good passer but it's hard to justify what we traded away for him given what the return has been thus far.
I have a hard time believing we wouldn't still be in the playoffs now if we had John Moore or Hunwick getting those minutes.
There was no need to throw that 2nd first in. Cally is better than MSL. The writing was on the wall with a 37 year old tiny player, no matter how good of a season he was having. I wish the conditional first was the only first in the deal, but the fact that it was 2 first rounders was a joke.
And the Yandle trade is shaping up to be a bag of shit also. We have given up 4 first round picks in order to make the team worse. If you replaced MSL with Cally, we'd be a better team. I get that we saved money and got something for Cally, so I would be down with a MSL for Cally trade, but man it would have been much better if we traded Cally for prospects or at least someone younger if we were going to give up 1 first rounders.
Side note: does anyone else think the Rangers would have at least made the finals in 2011 if Phaneuf doesn't level Sauer and end his career? Michael Sauer would really be a welcome addition to this team.
Side note #2: Does McIlrath really suck that badly? How did Sather blow that pick so badly?
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
At any rate, in the immediate aftermath of the Yandle trade he said to me something to the effect of, if you think Boyle is horrible in his own end and is a turnover machine, wait til you get a load of Yandle. Needless to say, I had no idea it could be this bad but being that he's watched an awful lot of Yandle over the years, he was sadly right on the money.
Boyle was a disaster in the playoffs last year in San Jose while the pretty skating Yandle has his peaks and valleys.
The team should have kept Stralman and Boyle rather than another old guy and losing DuClair and a #1 pick for Yandle.
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
Agreed, Sauer had a combination of size with a natural physical side and he could skate ...that was a massive loss. He would have solidified the backline 2nd or 3rd pairing big time.
Yep. You could go on and on. Trading Mattias Norstrom and ending up with Marty fucking McSorley. The Bobby Carpenter trade, the Espo/Vadnais for Ratelle/Park trade. Trading Sergei Zubov for Ulf Samuelsson instead of getting Samuelsson to play WITH Zubov. Their power play has been in steady decline since. Breaking off talks to get Jagr in 2000 and signing Lindros instead. UGH
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:24 pm : link
.
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 7:49 pm : link
Average speed, maybe.
Could have had Stralman AND Duclair and no Boyle, and now they overpay like a motherfucker for 18 months of an overrated offense-only defenseman.
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:16 pm : link
He's a defenseman who can score but is neither fast nor physical and stinks in his own end. OEL he ain't- now THAT is a great player.
If the Rangers had to give up Duclair, the least they could have done was to demand that Arizona take Girardi'Girardi ' s albatross of a contract off their hands.
Greg from LI : 3/1/2015 8:45 pm : link
And the idea that the lack of the mythical PPQB was the missing piece is silly. They need help in preventing scoring chances and goals.
Yandle is better than Boyle, but still a very similar player. You know, Boyle' s Corsi is pretty good too, because his minutes are sheltered as hell. Same thing with Yandle.
It's going to be a blast watching him walk in 2016 while Duclair blossoms. If this team doesn't win by next year, this deal is a massive failure.
Yandle is a typical "good player for a bad team" kind of guy. The mistake was letting Stralman walk, forcing them to sign Boyle and trade for Yandle.
Quote:
He was the only one of their defenseman who was a really physical thumper. They miss that.
I don't think McIlrath sucks, but he's limited by his skating and he isn't really suited for the style Vigneault wants to play. He also missed a year of development with his knee injury.
Agreed, Sauer had a combination of size with a natural physical side and he could skate ...that was a massive loss. He would have solidified the backline 2nd or 3rd pairing big time.
Wish he was still on the team. Would change a lot of things. It's baffling to me that a concussion can end a career the way it ended Sauer's. I wonder what the full story is about that.
It's tough to get on a team that won the President's trophy, but bad luck and bad trades have made this team way worse than it could have been.
Sauer being healthy? Stralman being let go? The Yandle trade? Hell, if you REALLY want to go back, think about the potential if Cherapenov didn't die.
Obviously this is a stupid exercise because of the butterfly effect - things wouldn't be the same that they are now. But I do think that this team would be better (the Nash trade might not have happened though).
it's funny that the team wasn't scoring even with Nash AND Gabby on the same fucking team!
WHY CAN'T THE RANGERS SCORE? WHY DOES THEIR POWER PLAY ALWAYS SUCK?
This series isn't fucking over, far from it. Have some faith in this group that's had a lot of success the last four seasons.
We're winning this series.
on an otherwise shitty day.
So Long Barn - ( New Window )
on an otherwise shitty day. So Long Barn - ( New Window )
Thanks but watching the shithole home of an irrelevant team with the most front running fans ever finally get torn down doesn't give me pleasure.
This series isn't fucking over, far from it. Have some faith in this group that's had a lot of success the last four seasons.
I agree.
I thought the team was done last year down 3-1. They looked like shit. This year, they look okay and are outplaying Washington (slightly, but still). I think this is going 7.
Quote:
on an otherwise shitty day. So Long Barn - ( New Window )
Thanks but watching the shithole home of an irrelevant team with the most front running fans ever finally get torn down doesn't give me pleasure.
How do you really feel, Victor?
Quote:
In comment 12272216 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
on an otherwise shitty day. So Long Barn - ( New Window )
Thanks but watching the shithole home of an irrelevant team with the most front running fans ever finally get torn down doesn't give me pleasure.
How do you really feel, Victor?
:-)
Quote:
I'm not looking to start the tiresome Callahan trade arguments again because Callahan was never going to be on the 2015 Rangers regardless, but they do miss him because he was the only garbageman they've had in recent years. That's the kind of guy they really could use now to pick up an ugly goal when they can't score the pretty goals.
Whatever. I can't believe people are panicking at a 1-2 deficit. They've lost one game because they inexplicably stopped playing with 5 seconds to go and another because of one fluke goal. I get that they're not scoring, and yes it's infuriating, and yes they have to do better, but this isn't anything like the 2013 series with Boston (to use the last series they were just flat out outclassed as an example). The Caps simply aren't anything special outside of Ovechkin. The Rangers will have every chance to win this. Whether or not they take it, who knows, but they're absolutely in it.
Good post.
Holtby is literally the only reason this series isn't 3-0 Rangers right now.
The caps just aren't a good team.
Maybe they won't get past the Capitals. But to suggest this series is over is nonsense. The Capitals had a chance last night to come home and dominate. Anyone who thinks they succeeded is nuts.
The Rangers problem is they appear to be snake bitten in this series andthey don't have a whole hell of a lot of time to change things. I had a bad feeling after the way they lost the first game and that feeling is getting stronger with each passing minute.
These are the NHL playoffs. There's going to be adversity. The Rangers are a resilient bunch and a lot of these guys have plenty of experience. They know what they need to do and they'll get it done.
We can get panicky if the Caps win again tomorrow night and put them on the ropes. I don't think it'll happen.
Rangers are playing well all over the ice except making things difficult for that shit bird.
That changes, then this filthy train starts Rollin
But we certainly didnt build on that in game 3 - there was nothing difficult or exceptional about Holtby's shutout performance on monday.