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La'El Collins has meetings with Bills & Dolphins

Big Rick in FL : 5/4/2015 9:52 pm
For today & tomorrow. Also has heard from almost every NFL team. I am really interested to see how this is going to work.
La'El Collins - ( New Window )
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Really surprised  
Marty866b : 5/4/2015 10:36 pm : link
No one "wasted" a 7th round pick on him. Wish we did.
What makes you think La'el Collins was even on the Giants list?  
Ivan15 : 5/4/2015 10:36 pm : link
I never heard any strong interest coming from the Giants or the beat writers.

The Bills already signed many UDFA  
Giants2012 : 5/4/2015 10:39 pm : link
they'll have little bonus money to spend.

It appears thr team which signed th fewest UDFA are the Jets. The Giants and I believe the Pats only signed 6 each.

Eric  
Emlen'sGremlins : 5/4/2015 10:45 pm : link
Collins could start on this Giants offensive line NOW. He would beat out one of the "starters" in camp.
RE: What makes you think La'el Collins was even on the Giants list?  
steve in ky : 5/4/2015 10:47 pm : link
In comment 12271364 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
I never heard any strong interest coming from the Giants or the beat writers.


Quote:
Marc Ross, the Giants' director of college scouting, summed the process up perfectly: "We thought about La'el the whole time, because he's sitting up there," he told reporters in East Rutherford, New Jersey, on Saturday. "But we were going to pass on that."

Link - ( New Window )
La el Is a pipe dream  
blueblood : 5/4/2015 10:48 pm : link
I agree with Eric.. His agent is going to look for the best situation for him to start and play..

Thats not the Giants..
Hard to understand,  
Doomster : 5/4/2015 10:57 pm : link
these teams falling all over themselves....would the Giants rather have Hart or Collins?

How does it not sound like, they were all told not to draft him? And now, fearing some kind of law suit, if he is not guilty, they are now letting him pick his team of choice?

Something is not right here...
In 2016  
Giants2012 : 5/4/2015 11:06 pm : link
I would be surprised if both Beatty and Schwartz were on the roster if Collins was signed this year. Not to mention, Collins will get playing time if/when somebody goes down.

Both Beatty and Schwartz are cuttable next offseason based on their 2016 cap numbers.
This is precisely why you draft La'el  
Giants31 : 5/4/2015 11:12 pm : link
At that point all you waste is a 7th rounder. He sits out? Who cares. But now someone is going to get a 1st round talent, and it likely won't be the Giants. The reward in this case greatly outweighed the risk, unless they had something on him that suggested he was involved.
RE: the  
Mr. Nickels : 5/4/2015 11:37 pm : link
In comment 12271341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.

His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.

There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.


William beatty can be beat out
Buffalo  
Mr. Nickels : 5/4/2015 11:38 pm : link
may have an edge because they didn't have their 1st round pick this draft. Maybe they can sort of guarantee Collins a 1st round price tag?
50 bucks  
Giantsfan79 : 5/4/2015 11:43 pm : link
he ends up with the Colts. Weak o-line and best contending team.
RE: RE: the  
blueblood : 5/4/2015 11:52 pm : link
In comment 12271429 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
In comment 12271341 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.

His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.

There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.



William beatty can be beat out


And then what.. you pay Beatty 8 million dollars to be a back up ??
My whole pitch would be that  
illmatic : 5/5/2015 12:00 am : link
Beatty is on the way out and that you get his spot next year while getting some good playing time this year. Along with being part of a potentially young stud offensive line that could be very Cowboys like, as much as it makes me wince to say it.

But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.
RE: RE: RE: the  
Mr. Nickels : 5/5/2015 12:03 am : link
In comment 12271436 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 12271429 Mr. Nickels said:


Quote:


In comment 12271341 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.

His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.

There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.



William beatty can be beat out



And then what.. you pay Beatty 8 million dollars to be a back up ??


Sure. Playing whoever is getting paid the most is a recipe for disaster and not something winning teams do. Beatty isn't a part of this team's future. I would rather move on now if Collins and Flowers are up to the challenge. I know Coughlin won't do that, but you can't let a Beatty prevent adding a 1st round talent to the oline to go with 2 other young 1st rounders.

If Seattle followed this logic Matt Flynn would have started over Russell Wilson.
You don't draft anyone unless your owner deems it okay  
Mason : 5/5/2015 12:23 am : link
cut the nonsense. Acting like a Mara doesn't own the team. The whole Christian Peters was a big deal and compared to other teams that was no big deal. Even inviting LT after his arrest was a big story. The notion of the Giants taking him was either naive or just stupid.

Reese begins discussion about each pick

"He's a clean player"

LOL, you will get Giants cheerleaders before you see a player that was in Collins position get drafted by the Giants while J. Mara is running the team.
Giants  
Dragon : 5/5/2015 1:14 am : link
Have to be very interested but must also show controlled patience, this situation does not seem resolved yet. As for a spot for Collins he would become the top rated sub guy on the roster at OT or OG if not a starter. The key being he does not have to start right away but could by mid season. No matter what everyone is claiming he can be most OL don't start from day one its a process. His real value is can he play OT or is he an OG three years from now not what he does this year.

I'm sure he wants to play for a good team that drops us way done on the list we are not very good. We do have so guys he has been linked to but most teams have some connection I would think also. He will sign with the team that tells the best lies about their future and his.
There should always be room for a player of La'El Collins ability.  
compton : 5/5/2015 1:29 am : link
problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins ON THE GIANT.

So you make a spot. They guy would be a starter for the Giants from day one.
RE: RE: the  
Joe in Cambridge : 5/5/2015 1:55 am : link
In comment 12271429 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
William beatty can be beat out
Can he? Beatty is an adequate starting LT. Most of the top tackle prospects from last year's draft struggled to play at that level as rookies. Why would it be different with Collins?
RE: My whole pitch would be that  
David in LA : 5/5/2015 3:07 am : link
In comment 12271439 illmatic said:
Quote:
Beatty is on the way out and that you get his spot next year while getting some good playing time this year. Along with being part of a potentially young stud offensive line that could be very Cowboys like, as much as it makes me wince to say it.

But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.


That's not a very convincing pitch. Honestly, think of what kind of stink bomb that'd leave in the locker room. Promising someone's job away?
Eric from BBI: Why is starting on Day One so vital to Collins?  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 3:30 am : link
The only clear financial reason I can think of is the opportunity for Performance-Based Pay (See CBA Article 28). That's a six-figure opportunity if he plays right away, but it's peanuts in the context of his potential career earnings. The other sweetener for playing time, the fourth-year Proven Performance Escalator (See CBA Article 7 Section 4) doesn't apply to UDFAs, because their contracts are only three years.

Off-field income? How likely is La'el Collins to get rich off endorsements, no matter how much he plays? He's not Victor Cruz. Few players are, let alone offensive linemen. How many endorsements did Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie get, combined?

From an earnings-maximization standpoint, LC's goal should be to establish himself as a good starter (ideally, as a left tackle) by 2017. That would set him up for a big payday - either at that point or in 2019 as a UFA, after playing 2018 on a moderately lucrative RFA tender. From this perspective, it doesn't matter what happens in 2015; even 2016 is just a stepping stone.

Does that make the Giants an attractive destination? Yes and no. The incumbent left tackle could become a cap casualty as early as 2016. If there's a problem, it isn't Beatty; it's Flowers, and - to a much lesser extent - Pugh. I still think there's plenty of room for Collins to win a starting job in time to cash in as a free agent. Neither Beatty nor Schwartz figures to pose much of an obstacle by 2017. There's also the possibility of injuries to presumptive starters, but that factor applies equally to all teams (no matter what we may think).

I get it that players want to play, not sit. I'm just looking at the financial side of the situation.
For those who say Colllins should have been drafted....  
JohnB : 5/5/2015 5:42 am : link
If Collins was drafted by a team, all he would have to do is to not sign and sit out one year and he could have entered the 2016 draft. Thus giving himself another shot at the 1st round. Which for Collins would have been a huge bonus.... and the drafting team would have NO shot at signing him. Why sign for 7th round money in 2015 when you can wait for 1st round money in 2016?

If Collins isn't drafted, he becomes a FA at a very much lower price tag, which is what is happening.

Why would a team draft him knowing that he will sit, not sign and reenter the draft in 2016? Drafting him punches his ticket into the 2016 draft! It makes no sense. None.
he will probably pick ateam  
bc4life : 5/5/2015 6:20 am : link
where he can play immediately. If I were him, I'd want to start my career off as soon as possible in order to show that I was a 1st Round talent - setting the stage for the next contract.
How quickly things change in the NFL.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/5/2015 7:22 am : link
Last year many opined it was the worst OL in the league(it wasn't despite injuries) last year..This year, it's "why would he sign here? He'll sign where he has a chance to start."

One year..One year..Perhaps prognosticators should remember what kind of league this has become..
Odds on this OL remaining healthy?  
Giants2012 : 5/5/2015 7:22 am : link
Com'on, there is no backup talent and nobody skilled enough to play LT IMO.

A hangnail away from John Jerry and preparing for another Olineman next year.
La'el Collins goes undrafted, not eligible for '16 draft  
killy : 5/5/2015 7:24 am : link
check the link

Also, thru his agent he indicated he would not sign with any team who drafted him after the 2nd round...I guess this may have to due with the contract dollars available after the 2nd round...All the teams honored that statement and I'm not sure why....
around the NFL - ( New Window )
Should have taken a flier in the 7th round?  
Headhunter : 5/5/2015 7:36 am : link
why didn't 31 other teams think that way? More so teams that had 7th round comp picks? This will play itself out and eventually the question why teams didn't take a shot late
as i said in another thread  
Essex : 5/5/2015 7:49 am : link
I don't think it is really that hard to figure out. The risk/reward of taking someone like him in the seventh round was clearly in favor of taking him, unless every team knew he was in on the murder (unlikely) or word got down from the commissioner not to take him because they did not want him associated with a team if he was guilty.
Risk/reward?  
Headhunter : 5/5/2015 7:53 am : link
what was the risk? Please don't tell me a 7th round draft pick is more than getting a pair of socks on Christmas from an aunt you hardly know
RE: Should have taken a flier in the 7th round?  
BrettNYG10 : 5/5/2015 8:06 am : link
In comment 12271520 Headhunter said:
Quote:
why didn't 31 other teams think that way? More so teams that had 7th round comp picks? This will play itself out and eventually the question why teams didn't take a shot late


Group think. If you had a first round grade on him, I think it's silly not to take a flyer on him with a later pick.
Group think?  
Headhunter : 5/5/2015 8:09 am : link
Do you think any team cares what another team or doesn't do?
RE: as i said in another thread  
Giants2012 : 5/5/2015 8:11 am : link
In comment 12271531 Essex said:
Quote:
I don't think it is really that hard to figure out. The risk/reward of taking someone like him in the seventh round was clearly in favor of taking him


Agreed yet some will still read your post wrong and focus on risk.
I said it was in favor of taking him  
Essex : 5/5/2015 8:13 am : link
So I obviously don't think much of the value of a seventh round pick. The Giants once broke a gentleman's agreement with the AFL to sign that Buffalo kicker, we should have done it again.
RE: Group think?  
BrettNYG10 : 5/5/2015 8:16 am : link
In comment 12271547 Headhunter said:
Quote:
Do you think any team cares what another team or doesn't do?


Yes. I think it plays into why guys start to fall - like Prince in 2011 when teams outside of the top ten didn't do enough work on him to have conviction that the stuff about him being a 'weird guy' was nonsense.

Totally different example, obviously, but I don't think these guys are immune to it - particularly when there is incomplete/unknowable information.
Dropping is one thing  
Headhunter : 5/5/2015 8:19 am : link
not getting drafted is another. If there was collusion by the teams not draft him he would have a hell of a law suit against the NFL. Seems all 32 teams independently came to the same conclusion
Collins is highly unlikely to sign here  
Jay on the Island : 5/5/2015 8:23 am : link
He will likely sign with a team like Carolina who has several open spots up for grabs including LT where he would likely be their best option at LT. If he plays well enough at LT in 3 years he would be in line for a hefty contract in comparison to him playing G or RT.
Headhunter: When his agent said he wouldn't sign if drafted late...  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 8:24 am : link
...any suit he might file took a pretty severe hit.
Again: He doesn't need to start right away.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 8:28 am : link
He doesn't even need to PLAY right away. He just needs to start accruing credited seasons so he can reach free agency ASAP. Proving his value can wait. Plenty of guys get fat contracts based on one good year. (Look no further than the Giants' offensive line, featuring "payday producers" Geoff Schwartz and Will Beatty.)
Is it really that hard to see why he wasn't drafted?  
Big Rick in FL : 5/5/2015 8:50 am : link
NFL teams do not want any attachment to a murderer just in case he did do it. What happens if they draft him on Saturday in the 7th he goes for his meeting yesterday & gets arrested? All headlines read "NY Giants OL La'El Collins charged with double murder." Obviously teams did not want that connection. If he does get charged they want it to read "LSU OL La'El Collins charged with double murder." Quite simple to me.


Also he said if it was past the 3rd round he wouldn't sign. So why would any team want to waste a pick on a guy who said he won't sign & enter the 2016 draft? Now he can't enter the 2016 draft & they don't have to waste a pick.

It's as if the Giants were the only team  
UConn4523 : 5/5/2015 8:56 am : link
to pass on him. It's obvious why no one took him, even the scumbag teams like the Cowboys and Bengals. If they didn't use a pick on him, we weren't.

Move on from it.
If we had used the 7th pick to draft him, none of this bartering  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 5/5/2015 8:56 am : link
would be occuring and we would have stolen the draft
Aaron Hernandez was released by the Patriots in June of 2013  
Curtis in VA : 5/5/2015 8:59 am : link
He was a huge part of their offense and yet, without him on the team and all the distractions his arrest caused, they went 12-4 that year and won their division, then went on to win the Super Bowl a year later.

Collins is a rookie UDFA at this point. A nobody in the locker room. I don't really buy the distraction stuff.

To me, signing him seems like a no-brainer. I do understand the concerns but if I was Jerry Reese, I'd take the gamble. You'll never get a better shot at talent like that on the cheap.
Collins  
George : 5/5/2015 9:31 am : link
will have a handful of options/offers available to him by May 10. I would be stunned if he chose the Giants, for reasons Eric has articulated clearly.

It is in Collins' best interest to go with a team that will give him an opportunity to start immediately, and - much to my surprise - the NY OL is actually in pretty good shape right now (on paper, at least). There's no obvious hole for Collins to fill.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Giants sign him and then bid adieu to Mr. Beatty, with Pugh or Flowers taking over as LT. But I doubt the Giants see it that way, and without some kind of guarantee of that nature I can't imagine Collins wanting to come to us when, say, Buffalo or Carolina can point to the holes in their OL and say, "that's where we see you playing by October 1."
RE: If we had used the 7th pick to draft him, none of this bartering  
Randy in CT : 5/5/2015 9:32 am : link
In comment 12271600 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
would be occuring and we would have stolen the draft
You still aren't getting this, are you?
If he isn't drafted he CAN'T enter but the 2016  
JohnB : 5/5/2015 10:12 am : link
but if he IS drafted (in the 7th round) and DOESN'T sign with that team, he can enter the 2016 draft.

Why sign for 7th round $ when you can get 1st round $ in 2016?

By late in the draft, Collins should have been begging teams to draft him (so that he could not sign enter the 2016 draft).

I still don't see a good reason why he needs to start right away.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 10:22 am : link
It's being repeated as a fact, but it's far from clear. He might even be better off NOT starting. Every snap is an opportunity for a career-altering injury.

Playing brilliantly in 2015 doesn't help him much; he will still make the minimum in 2016 and 2017. The year he needs to shine is 2017. Then if he gets stuck playing on an RFA tender that year, he'll need to sustain it in 2018.
I think any team can give him the best contract  
MotownGIANTS : 5/5/2015 10:25 am : link
this situation will open up a loophole in the contract value...incentives are not part of the overall contract value. So basically a team an throw in a 5 mil workout bonus. 5 mil roster bonus due in March...etc....and then give the rest of the salary as UDFA money...issue solved.
'That year' meaning 2018.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 10:26 am : link
Sorry - poorly written.
He’s not going to sign here  
Tony in Tampa : 5/5/2015 12:46 pm : link
For many of the reasons already listed. But all things being equal, I disagree with those who say the Giants should not sign him because there’s no place for him to play on the line. Reece and TC’s mantra has been: competition, competition, competition. You would want the best OL you can have and Collins would improve anyone’s line.

If the presume starting 5 is some combination of:

Beatty
Pugh
Richberg
Schwartz
Flowers

And if Collins has the ability to beat out one of the guards or one of the tackles, he should be given the opportunity just as if he were any Giants draft pick.
MotownGIANTS: You might expect that loophole to exist...  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/5/2015 1:26 pm : link
...but it doesn't. From CBA Article 7, Section 6 Paragraph (b) [bold-face added]:
Quote:
All performance incentives shall be considered Rookie Salary, shall count at the highest possible earnable amount for each League Year the incentive is applicable, and will be included in the 25% Increase Rule, Year-One Rookie Salary (if applicable), the Total Rookie Compensation Pool, the Year-One Rookie Compensation Pool (if applicable), the Club’s Total Rookie Allocation, and the Club’s Year-One Rookie Allocation (if applicable).
As if that's not conclusive enough, here's the knockout punch, from Section 2, Paragraph (j):
Quote:
Any contract that violates the intent of any provision of this Article shall be disapproved. It is the intent of the parties to set an absolute maximum limit on the total amount of compensation contracted for by Drafted and Undrafted Rookies in each Draft class over the entire term of the players’ Rookie Contracts. If a contract signed by a Drafted or Undrafted Rookie is disapproved by the Commissioner as being inconsistent with the provisions of this Article in respect of (i) the mandatory term (length) of the contract; (ii) permissible compensation pursuant to (1) the Year-One Rookie Compensation Pool, (2) the Total Rookie Compensation Pool, (3) the Club’s Year-One Rookie Allocation, (4) the Club’s Total Rookie Allocation, (5) the 25% Increase Rule, (6) the player’s Year-One Minimum Allotment, (7) the Fifth Year Option, (8) the Proven Performance Escalator, or (9) the limit on the player’s permissible nonfootball compensation; or (iii) guarantees; the disapproval shall be upheld by the System Arbitrator and the Appeals Panel unless clear and convincing evidence demonstrates that the decision to disapprove the contract was incorrect.
You want to try to get around THAT?
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