For today & tomorrow. Also has heard from almost every NFL team. I am really interested to see how this is going to work. La'El Collins - ( New Window )
Somebody posted on another thread about all the ties the Giants had to LSU. I'm sure a bunch of other teams do to, but it certainly doesn't hurt our chances. Plus having Randle & Beckham. Who Collins told me was his little big Brother two years back.
Provided he is innocent it would be nice to get an unexpected player of his caliber. Was reading an article that said Collins was hiring a PI to show he was out of state the day the murder happened. If he is innocent I feel really bad for the guy.
^this. I know that it will come down to money and the best situation for Collins to succeed, but I hope Odell can convince him about the advantages of playing for the Giants/Tri-state area.
I mean, maybe it's not the perfect scenario, but if that's what it took I'd do it. Realistically what's Schwartz' future here? If he's healthy this year he'll get another season, but he's not likely a long term piece.
Bring back Boothe and have an open competition between the 3 young guys for LG, RG, RT (Boothe/Jerry/Newhouse as depth).
The agent is going to point him to the team that (1) gives him the best contract, combined (2) with the greatest likelihood to play immediately.
Let's remember what Reese said today though. He Giants signed less free agents than other years. Maybe that extra signing bonus money can go towards Collins. There is a cap for UDFA so it's not like he's going to get much more, if anymore, elsehwere. This Giants line has sucked for so long i wouldn't say he's out of the picture.
I never heard any strong interest coming from the Giants or the beat writers.
Quote:
Marc Ross, the Giants' director of college scouting, summed the process up perfectly: "We thought about La'el the whole time, because he's sitting up there," he told reporters in East Rutherford, New Jersey, on Saturday. "But we were going to pass on that."
these teams falling all over themselves....would the Giants rather have Hart or Collins?
How does it not sound like, they were all told not to draft him? And now, fearing some kind of law suit, if he is not guilty, they are now letting him pick his team of choice?
I would be surprised if both Beatty and Schwartz were on the roster if Collins was signed this year. Not to mention, Collins will get playing time if/when somebody goes down.
Both Beatty and Schwartz are cuttable next offseason based on their 2016 cap numbers.
At that point all you waste is a 7th rounder. He sits out? Who cares. But now someone is going to get a 1st round talent, and it likely won't be the Giants. The reward in this case greatly outweighed the risk, unless they had something on him that suggested he was involved.
Beatty is on the way out and that you get his spot next year while getting some good playing time this year. Along with being part of a potentially young stud offensive line that could be very Cowboys like, as much as it makes me wince to say it.
But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.
problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
William beatty can be beat out
And then what.. you pay Beatty 8 million dollars to be a back up ??
Sure. Playing whoever is getting paid the most is a recipe for disaster and not something winning teams do. Beatty isn't a part of this team's future. I would rather move on now if Collins and Flowers are up to the challenge. I know Coughlin won't do that, but you can't let a Beatty prevent adding a 1st round talent to the oline to go with 2 other young 1st rounders.
If Seattle followed this logic Matt Flynn would have started over Russell Wilson.
You don't draft anyone unless your owner deems it okay
cut the nonsense. Acting like a Mara doesn't own the team. The whole Christian Peters was a big deal and compared to other teams that was no big deal. Even inviting LT after his arrest was a big story. The notion of the Giants taking him was either naive or just stupid.
Reese begins discussion about each pick
"He's a clean player"
LOL, you will get Giants cheerleaders before you see a player that was in Collins position get drafted by the Giants while J. Mara is running the team.
Have to be very interested but must also show controlled patience, this situation does not seem resolved yet. As for a spot for Collins he would become the top rated sub guy on the roster at OT or OG if not a starter. The key being he does not have to start right away but could by mid season. No matter what everyone is claiming he can be most OL don't start from day one its a process. His real value is can he play OT or is he an OG three years from now not what he does this year.
I'm sure he wants to play for a good team that drops us way done on the list we are not very good. We do have so guys he has been linked to but most teams have some connection I would think also. He will sign with the team that tells the best lies about their future and his.
There should always be room for a player of La'El Collins ability.
Can he? Beatty is an adequate starting LT. Most of the top tackle prospects from last year's draft struggled to play at that level as rookies. Why would it be different with Collins?
Beatty is on the way out and that you get his spot next year while getting some good playing time this year. Along with being part of a potentially young stud offensive line that could be very Cowboys like, as much as it makes me wince to say it.
But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.
That's not a very convincing pitch. Honestly, think of what kind of stink bomb that'd leave in the locker room. Promising someone's job away?
Eric from BBI: Why is starting on Day One so vital to Collins?
The only clear financial reason I can think of is the opportunity for Performance-Based Pay (See CBA Article 28). That's a six-figure opportunity if he plays right away, but it's peanuts in the context of his potential career earnings. The other sweetener for playing time, the fourth-year Proven Performance Escalator (See CBA Article 7 Section 4) doesn't apply to UDFAs, because their contracts are only three years.
Off-field income? How likely is La'el Collins to get rich off endorsements, no matter how much he plays? He's not Victor Cruz. Few players are, let alone offensive linemen. How many endorsements did Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie get, combined?
From an earnings-maximization standpoint, LC's goal should be to establish himself as a good starter (ideally, as a left tackle) by 2017. That would set him up for a big payday - either at that point or in 2019 as a UFA, after playing 2018 on a moderately lucrative RFA tender. From this perspective, it doesn't matter what happens in 2015; even 2016 is just a stepping stone.
Does that make the Giants an attractive destination? Yes and no. The incumbent left tackle could become a cap casualty as early as 2016. If there's a problem, it isn't Beatty; it's Flowers, and - to a much lesser extent - Pugh. I still think there's plenty of room for Collins to win a starting job in time to cash in as a free agent. Neither Beatty nor Schwartz figures to pose much of an obstacle by 2017. There's also the possibility of injuries to presumptive starters, but that factor applies equally to all teams (no matter what we may think).
I get it that players want to play, not sit. I'm just looking at the financial side of the situation.
For those who say Colllins should have been drafted....
If Collins was drafted by a team, all he would have to do is to not sign and sit out one year and he could have entered the 2016 draft. Thus giving himself another shot at the 1st round. Which for Collins would have been a huge bonus.... and the drafting team would have NO shot at signing him. Why sign for 7th round money in 2015 when you can wait for 1st round money in 2016?
If Collins isn't drafted, he becomes a FA at a very much lower price tag, which is what is happening.
Why would a team draft him knowing that he will sit, not sign and reenter the draft in 2016? Drafting him punches his ticket into the 2016 draft! It makes no sense. None.
where he can play immediately. If I were him, I'd want to start my career off as soon as possible in order to show that I was a 1st Round talent - setting the stage for the next contract.
Last year many opined it was the worst OL in the league(it wasn't despite injuries) last year..This year, it's "why would he sign here? He'll sign where he has a chance to start."
One year..One year..Perhaps prognosticators should remember what kind of league this has become..
Also, thru his agent he indicated he would not sign with any team who drafted him after the 2nd round...I guess this may have to due with the contract dollars available after the 2nd round...All the teams honored that statement and I'm not sure why.... around the NFL - ( New Window )
why didn't 31 other teams think that way? More so teams that had 7th round comp picks? This will play itself out and eventually the question why teams didn't take a shot late
I don't think it is really that hard to figure out. The risk/reward of taking someone like him in the seventh round was clearly in favor of taking him, unless every team knew he was in on the murder (unlikely) or word got down from the commissioner not to take him because they did not want him associated with a team if he was guilty.
why didn't 31 other teams think that way? More so teams that had 7th round comp picks? This will play itself out and eventually the question why teams didn't take a shot late
Group think. If you had a first round grade on him, I think it's silly not to take a flyer on him with a later pick.
So I obviously don't think much of the value of a seventh round pick. The Giants once broke a gentleman's agreement with the AFL to sign that Buffalo kicker, we should have done it again.
Do you think any team cares what another team or doesn't do?
Yes. I think it plays into why guys start to fall - like Prince in 2011 when teams outside of the top ten didn't do enough work on him to have conviction that the stuff about him being a 'weird guy' was nonsense.
Totally different example, obviously, but I don't think these guys are immune to it - particularly when there is incomplete/unknowable information.
not getting drafted is another. If there was collusion by the teams not draft him he would have a hell of a law suit against the NFL. Seems all 32 teams independently came to the same conclusion
Provided he is innocent it would be nice to get an unexpected player of his caliber. Was reading an article that said Collins was hiring a PI to show he was out of state the day the murder happened. If he is innocent I feel really bad for the guy.
^this. I know that it will come down to money and the best situation for Collins to succeed, but I hope Odell can convince him about the advantages of playing for the Giants/Tri-state area.
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
+1
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
Eh, on paper right now yet one injury and he's in and that Beatty Cap number is favorable to part ways with him in 2016.
Bring back Boothe and have an open competition between the 3 young guys for LG, RG, RT (Boothe/Jerry/Newhouse as depth).
The agent is going to point him to the team that (1) gives him the best contract, combined (2) with the greatest likelihood to play immediately.
The agent is going to point him to the team that (1) gives him the best contract, combined (2) with the greatest likelihood to play immediately.
Let's remember what Reese said today though. He Giants signed less free agents than other years. Maybe that extra signing bonus money can go towards Collins. There is a cap for UDFA so it's not like he's going to get much more, if anymore, elsehwere. This Giants line has sucked for so long i wouldn't say he's out of the picture.
Rex did not first clear the dinner thru Collins agent.
You have to admire these teams working hard to convince a 1st round pick to sign.
It appears thr team which signed th fewest UDFA are the Jets. The Giants and I believe the Pats only signed 6 each.
Link - ( New Window )
Thats not the Giants..
How does it not sound like, they were all told not to draft him? And now, fearing some kind of law suit, if he is not guilty, they are now letting him pick his team of choice?
Something is not right here...
Both Beatty and Schwartz are cuttable next offseason based on their 2016 cap numbers.
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
William beatty can be beat out
Quote:
problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
William beatty can be beat out
And then what.. you pay Beatty 8 million dollars to be a back up ??
But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.
Quote:
In comment 12271341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
problem is that there is no obvious open spot for Collins.
His agent is going to know that the Giants drafted Flowers and the other positions are pretty much set.
There are many more OL's now more unsettled than ours.
William beatty can be beat out
And then what.. you pay Beatty 8 million dollars to be a back up ??
Sure. Playing whoever is getting paid the most is a recipe for disaster and not something winning teams do. Beatty isn't a part of this team's future. I would rather move on now if Collins and Flowers are up to the challenge. I know Coughlin won't do that, but you can't let a Beatty prevent adding a 1st round talent to the oline to go with 2 other young 1st rounders.
If Seattle followed this logic Matt Flynn would have started over Russell Wilson.
Reese begins discussion about each pick
"He's a clean player"
LOL, you will get Giants cheerleaders before you see a player that was in Collins position get drafted by the Giants while J. Mara is running the team.
I'm sure he wants to play for a good team that drops us way done on the list we are not very good. We do have so guys he has been linked to but most teams have some connection I would think also. He will sign with the team that tells the best lies about their future and his.
So you make a spot. They guy would be a starter for the Giants from day one.
But he'll probably go to a team that has an open starting position for him. That's usually how these things go.
That's not a very convincing pitch. Honestly, think of what kind of stink bomb that'd leave in the locker room. Promising someone's job away?
Off-field income? How likely is La'el Collins to get rich off endorsements, no matter how much he plays? He's not Victor Cruz. Few players are, let alone offensive linemen. How many endorsements did Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie get, combined?
From an earnings-maximization standpoint, LC's goal should be to establish himself as a good starter (ideally, as a left tackle) by 2017. That would set him up for a big payday - either at that point or in 2019 as a UFA, after playing 2018 on a moderately lucrative RFA tender. From this perspective, it doesn't matter what happens in 2015; even 2016 is just a stepping stone.
Does that make the Giants an attractive destination? Yes and no. The incumbent left tackle could become a cap casualty as early as 2016. If there's a problem, it isn't Beatty; it's Flowers, and - to a much lesser extent - Pugh. I still think there's plenty of room for Collins to win a starting job in time to cash in as a free agent. Neither Beatty nor Schwartz figures to pose much of an obstacle by 2017. There's also the possibility of injuries to presumptive starters, but that factor applies equally to all teams (no matter what we may think).
I get it that players want to play, not sit. I'm just looking at the financial side of the situation.
If Collins isn't drafted, he becomes a FA at a very much lower price tag, which is what is happening.
Why would a team draft him knowing that he will sit, not sign and reenter the draft in 2016? Drafting him punches his ticket into the 2016 draft! It makes no sense. None.
One year..One year..Perhaps prognosticators should remember what kind of league this has become..
A hangnail away from John Jerry and preparing for another Olineman next year.
Also, thru his agent he indicated he would not sign with any team who drafted him after the 2nd round...I guess this may have to due with the contract dollars available after the 2nd round...All the teams honored that statement and I'm not sure why....
around the NFL - ( New Window )
Group think. If you had a first round grade on him, I think it's silly not to take a flyer on him with a later pick.
Agreed yet some will still read your post wrong and focus on risk.
Yes. I think it plays into why guys start to fall - like Prince in 2011 when teams outside of the top ten didn't do enough work on him to have conviction that the stuff about him being a 'weird guy' was nonsense.
Totally different example, obviously, but I don't think these guys are immune to it - particularly when there is incomplete/unknowable information.