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Why not take a flier on La'El...

Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 8:53 am
And let him sort through his legal troubles as a NYG in wait ? I think this guy is going to be a premier tackle, when he is able to resume his football career. He instantly becomes the teams best tackle on paper. He does not need to start right away, let him learn the pro game, and let him impose pressure on Softy Beatty ... Is something like this far to hard for Reese to comprehend ? Here you have a guy who could anchor your line for he next decade dangling.

I questioned the release of Will Hill, and always thought special players leashes should be just a bit longer.

Once the legal process plays out and La'El is hopefully clean, you have 3 1st round talents yielded from the 2015 class. Worse case he is found guilty of some role in this problem he is having you say good bye.

I don't see the harm and only upside to this. Unless I am missing something.
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32 teams passed  
JonC : 5/5/2015 8:55 am : link
that puts me on alert that his woes aren't over, and it makes sense that NYG would prefer to avoid ANY potential connection to a double homicide.
There's literally a thread right under this  
UConn4523 : 5/5/2015 8:57 am : link
...
You're completely missing something on Hill  
JonC : 5/5/2015 8:58 am : link
btw.
RE: 32 teams passed  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 8:58 am : link
In comment 12271598 JonC said:
Quote:
that puts me on alert that his woes aren't over, and it makes sense that NYG would prefer to avoid ANY potential connection to a double homicide.


I understand this, but as I prefaced, let the legal woe's play out and have him on your roster in wait. If it turns out he is completely clear of any connection to this issue, you will see teams scampering to grab him. Instead we are sending invitations to Candadian football players.
Will Hill had 3 chances, 4 if you count signing him in the first place  
Victor in CT : 5/5/2015 8:59 am : link
If Collins is clean I'd be all over it. Somebody is going to get sued in a big way if he turns out to be clean. But that's a big if.
RE: You're completely missing something on Hill  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 9:00 am : link
In comment 12271602 JonC said:
Quote:
btw.


Absolutely not. I've seen this guys instagram and what he posts daily, and who he surrounds himself with. I think that is the issue this organization had with him, and for that, I can completely understand.
Floyd  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:01 am : link
Personally, I avoid any potential link to homicide and other legal issues, and would conduct my business the same way.

I don't have a "win at all costs" mentality, there are simple moral obligations. If he's cleared entirely, by all means bring him in, but right now? It does not compute yet.

RE: Will Hill had 3 chances, 4 if you count signing him in the first place  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 9:02 am : link
In comment 12271606 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
If Collins is clean I'd be all over it. Somebody is going to get sued in a big way if he turns out to be clean. But that's a big if.


So my question is, how does it hurt to think forward and bring this guy in ? Its only upside, if he is found guilty in any way, cut him loose.
They cut Hill loose  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:02 am : link
after multiple chances given, and essentially lying to the face of everyone in the org, top to bottom.
RE: RE: You're completely missing something on Hill  
Victor in CT : 5/5/2015 9:03 am : link
In comment 12271607 Floyd The Barber said:
Quote:
In comment 12271602 JonC said:


Quote:


btw.



Absolutely not. I've seen this guys instagram and what he posts daily, and who he surrounds himself with. I think that is the issue this organization had with him, and for that, I can completely understand.


Really? It wasn't the multiple suspensions? Especially the last one when they had already built their secondary around him playing a big role?
RE: RE: 32 teams passed  
mphbullet36 : 5/5/2015 9:03 am : link
In comment 12271603 Floyd The Barber said:
Quote:



I understand this, but as I prefaced, let the legal woe's play out and have him on your roster in wait. If it turns out he is completely clear of any connection to this issue, you will see teams scampering to grab him. Instead we are sending invitations to Candadian football players.


easy enough for you to say because you aren't the owner of the team and it wouldn't be your PR nightmare to deal with if he did had big legal issues.

No organization wants to have connection with a possible homicide. So the Giants should due there due diligence here. If he checks out I am all for it, but I understand why the organization wants to turn over every stone on the matter.
RE: RE: Will Hill had 3 chances, 4 if you count signing him in the first place  
mphbullet36 : 5/5/2015 9:04 am : link
In comment 12271610 Floyd The Barber said:
Quote:




So my question is, how does it hurt to think forward and bring this guy in ? Its only upside, if he is found guilty in any way, cut him loose.


The PR nightmare it would be???
How does it hurt?  
UConn4523 : 5/5/2015 9:04 am : link
you are bringing a guy in who has not yet been fully cleared in a murder investigation, in NY if all places.
I understand the frustration of sending invitations to Candadian  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:06 am : link
players, but it doesn't mean it's ok to overlook a homicide investigation, imv. Clear you name, and only then.

I would do it,  
Curtis in VA : 5/5/2015 9:07 am : link
based on what we know - which may not be everything and most times isn't but...

I would take the chance. He's nobody right now, as far as locker room or team distractions. He's not Aaron Hernandez. He's not a fixture. Its a gamble, but I'd take it personally.

All that said, I don't expect the Giants to do it.
The rub is  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:08 am : link
you just don't know if he's not another Hernandez yet.
gotta believe no team will sign this guy  
aquidneck : 5/5/2015 9:09 am : link
Until his name is cleared. NFL and its clubs don't want the bad PR of details, rumors, suspicions in the news.

If he is cleared NFL will find a way to get him paid like a first rdc or fave lawsuit.
If he's innocent,  
Peter in Atl : 5/5/2015 9:12 am : link
it doesn't make any sense on his part to sign with a team now.
RE: RE: 32 teams passed  
Mike in NY : 5/5/2015 9:12 am : link
In comment 12271603 Floyd The Barber said:
Quote:
In comment 12271598 JonC said:


Quote:


that puts me on alert that his woes aren't over, and it makes sense that NYG would prefer to avoid ANY potential connection to a double homicide.



I understand this, but as I prefaced, let the legal woe's play out and have him on your roster in wait. If it turns out he is completely clear of any connection to this issue, you will see teams scampering to grab him. Instead we are sending invitations to Candadian football players.


First of all, La'el Collins was not going to accept only a tryout. Second, we have not signed any of the Canadian football players. If they stink at rookie camp they get nothing except a plane ticket home. As you need bodies for rookie camp I have no problem with the team reaching out to the top Canadian college players. Finally, unless we had a deal in place with Collins which would likely take up most or all of our allotted bonus pool for UDFA's, we could potentially be screwing ourselves because all of the talent we would have otherwise signed would have gone somewhere else and we would be stuck with table scraps. Personally I would have considered taking La'el Collins in the spot we took Bobby Hart, but we were not the only ones who passed
RE: The rub is  
Curtis in VA : 5/5/2015 9:15 am : link
In comment 12271622 JonC said:
Quote:
you just don't know if he's not another Hernandez yet.


Thats true, but even without Hernandez and with all the distractions is arrest caused, the team didn't miss a beat really. They just won the Super Bowl a year later.

Can't really argue with not bringing him in, I totally get it. Concerns are definitely valid, and the Giants are a team that usually errs on the side of caution - which is something we all appreciate about them.

I know they won't do it. I just want that line to dominate. =)
NY Giants Player Arrested For Double Homicide  
Jim in Tampa : 5/5/2015 9:17 am : link
That would be the back page headline in the Daily News and the Post.

Is it really that hard to figure out why NO team is going to sign him until he's cleared?
Tell your boss at your office to take a flyer on him.  
NoPeanutz : 5/5/2015 9:25 am : link
What's that? You don't want to work in a cube next to someone who might have murdered a couple of people, or with known connections to murderers?
RE: If he's innocent,  
montanagiant : 5/5/2015 9:29 am : link
In comment 12271628 Peter in Atl said:
Quote:
it doesn't make any sense on his part to sign with a team now.

Yup, He already said if not drafted in the first 3 rounds he was going to sit
In the Media cauldron that is New York city  
George : 5/5/2015 9:37 am : link
it would be very risky indeed to bring to town a guy with great big red flag tattooed on his forehead. The NFL endured a horrific PR year in 2014, and the Giants probably feel like they got off lightly with Will Hill's pot suspension/release. But I can't imagine the Maras wanting to dick around with the potential media circus that would ensue with bringing to camp a guy even remotely connected with the murder of his ex-girlfriend and her unborn child.

Talk about a PR nightmare; that's something that the Image Is Everything Giants want to avoid like the plague.

RE: Tell your boss at your office to take a flyer on him.  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 9:42 am : link
In comment 12271648 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
What's that? You don't want to work in a cube next to someone who might have murdered a couple of people, or with known connections to murderers?


Save the flair for dramatics here, we are talking football players, not cube monkeys, very different culture then I am sure you and I are accustomed ...


All I was saying here, if indeed his name is cleared, we will miss out on a guy that was regarded top 15 in this years draft, and would be a great addition to a position of need ...
I'm not sure why some people don't get this.  
Watson : 5/5/2015 9:52 am : link
There is a reason why all teams passed. Not one team was even willing to use a 7th round compensatory pick. It had nothing to do whether he would sign.

There are teams speaking to him now, but I doubt any team will sign him until the police make a public statement that he has been cleared and is not a suspect. Maybe a team will take a chance if the paternity test comes back negative, but I don't think it will be NYG.
The starting OL is probably set now  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:53 am : link
Flowers filled the area of need, and was one of their top two targets.
"if indeed his name is cleared"  
JonC : 5/5/2015 9:54 am : link
really needs to happen first.
RE: The starting OL is probably set now  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 10:02 am : link
In comment 12271691 JonC said:
Quote:
Flowers filled the area of need, and was one of their top two targets.


It would be nice to have a guy of La'El's ability in your pocket. Don't be so quick to anoint the line set, Schwartz is a huge question mark, he still can not run, and even when healthy may we be the weak link this year ...
I'd be fine adding another clean OL piece  
JonC : 5/5/2015 10:04 am : link
but I'm relaying what the regime will likely say.
Floyd  
UConn4523 : 5/5/2015 10:09 am : link
you are rooting for the wrong team. The Giants don't operate the way you want them too. Collins would be a nice insurance policy in a perfect world, but it isn't a perfect world and their could be massive repercussions if things go south in his personal life. We aren't signing up for that risk, and most of the league probably won't either.

If we miss out on him if he turns out to be innocent, so be it, so will everyone else except for 1 team. Those are how things fall sometimes.
I don't think he's clean...  
grizz299 : 5/5/2015 10:13 am : link
I would imagine the Nfl had private detectives who could talk to the investigating authorities and find the "skinny".

If he was totally clean, I think someone would have ventured a late round pick...I realize it's not the same crime as Ray and Gregories, but they were guilty, if he was innocent that would have gotten back and he goes like them...Or so it seems to me.

RE: RE: The rub is  
JonC : 5/5/2015 10:14 am : link
In comment 12271633 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 12271622 JonC said:


Quote:


you just don't know if he's not another Hernandez yet.



Thats true, but even without Hernandez and with all the distractions is arrest caused, the team didn't miss a beat really. They just won the Super Bowl a year later.

Can't really argue with not bringing him in, I totally get it. Concerns are definitely valid, and the Giants are a team that usually errs on the side of caution - which is something we all appreciate about them.

I know they won't do it. I just want that line to dominate. =)


As soon as Hernandez was arrested, NE cut bait and severed all ties with him. That was necessary and significant and served as a moving on point for the franchise. Sure, many were watching and probably rooting for AH to be cleared, but the team GTFO, they wanted to be as far from the guy as possible.

Maybe I am wrong here but.....  
Reb8thVA : 5/5/2015 10:15 am : link
La'el is not going to sign for peanuts. So you will be making an investment in a player that might be one press conference from becoming the target of a homicide investigation. This means you are occupying resources that might be better spent elsewhere, knowing full well the situation could blow up in your face at any moment.
There's a reason why Collins wasn't drafted  
JohnB : 5/5/2015 10:20 am : link
1) No one is using a high pick to take someone with possible murders forthcoming.

2) No one took him late in the draft because if they had, Collins could have passed on signing a low contract and entered the 2016 draft (and "yes", if a player is drafted and doesn't sign, he can be in the next years draft). Thus the drafting team just wasted a pick and punched his ticket into the 2016 draft.

In both cases, the drafting team is in a very bad spot. Why would a team do that?
RE: Will Hill had 3 chances, 4 if you count signing him in the first place  
Hades07 : 5/5/2015 10:23 am : link
In comment 12271606 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
If Collins is clean I'd be all over it. Somebody is going to get sued in a big way if he turns out to be clean. But that's a big if.
I am curious, because I have little experience with law suits or the legal system, who exactly would he sue over this?
I  
Floyd The Barber : 5/5/2015 10:26 am : link
am almost certain there is a team or teams with terms in place just needing a signature on the dotted line the moment his name is cleared ... I am also certain La'El will have his choice as where he goes ...
RE: There's a reason why Collins wasn't drafted  
Hades07 : 5/5/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12271775 JohnB said:
Quote:
1) No one is using a high pick to take someone with possible murders forthcoming.

2) No one took him late in the draft because if they had, Collins could have passed on signing a low contract and entered the 2016 draft (and "yes", if a player is drafted and doesn't sign, he can be in the next years draft). Thus the drafting team just wasted a pick and punched his ticket into the 2016 draft.

In both cases, the drafting team is in a very bad spot. Why would a team do that?
He was dumb to say he wouldn't sign. The way it turned out prevents him from entering next years draft. Who is advising this kid?

Best case for him now is to go to Canada and come back and allow the bidding next year. If he signs now he is subject to the rookie wage scale. If he plays in Canada, he would be like any street FA next year. Sure he will be locked in, to the same ERFA, then RFA rules of any new player, but at least his signing bonus and salary will be limited by the salary cap and not the rookie scale. Unless of course I am understanding the FA rules incorrectly.
RE: I  
JonC : 5/5/2015 10:33 am : link
In comment 12271787 Floyd The Barber said:
Quote:
am almost certain there is a team or teams with terms in place just needing a signature on the dotted line the moment his name is cleared ... I am also certain La'El will have his choice as where he goes ...


That's great, kid, all you need to do is clear your name first ...
JonC  
blapre74 : 5/5/2015 10:53 am : link
et tu, Brute? How many threads are there on Collins? Eric said it best, that even if Collins was a Giant interest, there really is no room for him. I know Reese is not a BBI fav. but he's too smart to go after this trouble. :)
RE: JonC  
Hades07 : 5/5/2015 11:07 am : link
In comment 12271877 blapre74 said:
Quote:
et tu, Brute? How many threads are there on Collins? Eric said it best, that even if Collins was a Giant interest, there really is no room for him. I know Reese is not a BBI fav. but he's too smart to go after this trouble. :)
If Eric said that he is wrong. If Collins is cleared of any involvement, there will be room on the roster for him.

Beatty
Schwartz
Pugh
Richburg
Flowers
Collins
Newhouse/Jones/Reynolds/Jerry/Mosley/Herman/Gettis fighting for the last 2 spots. Definitely space.
but as JonC says....  
Hades07 : 5/5/2015 11:12 am : link
...they should to wait until all this is over before extending an offer to him.
Not speaking for Eric, but  
JonC : 5/5/2015 11:21 am : link
I suspect what he meant was where would he play? NYG is loyal (often to a fault), which means Schwartz gets every opportunity to keep his gig (RG, me thinks), as well as Pugh at LG. If things go well, your tackles and center are set.

I think both OGs are upgradeable, but would agree NYG would choose loyalty. Is Collins going to accept a roster spot given the above? I tend to doubt it.

Jon...  
Hades07 : 5/5/2015 11:28 am : link
...with the situation and Collins' ability to choose his spot he may not sign here. My only point is there is always a spot on the roster for a young talented OL. Though he may choose to sign here knowing that the LT spot will open soon and the RG spot is not locked down by a young high draft pick or future HOF guard. Even if he won't start as a rookie, he will as a 2nd year player most likely. Having 4 spots on the line locked up with young players in Pugh, Richburg, Flowers and Collins would be a nice situation for the Giants.

Whether the Giants can sign him or not, if he is cleared, they should at least pursue it.
Hades  
JonC : 5/5/2015 11:29 am : link
Understood.
RE: Maybe I am wrong here but.....  
nygiants16 : 5/5/2015 11:32 am : link
In comment 12271758 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
La'el is not going to sign for peanuts. So you will be making an investment in a player that might be one press conference from becoming the target of a homicide investigation. This means you are occupying resources that might be better spent elsewhere, knowing full well the situation could blow up in your face at any moment.


There is a cap on what undrafted free agents can sign for...

The only upside is he is a free agent after 2 years rather than 3...

RE: If he's innocent,  
nygiants16 : 5/5/2015 11:33 am : link
In comment 12271628 Peter in Atl said:
Quote:
it doesn't make any sense on his part to sign with a team now.


The NFL has already said if he is not drafted he can not apply for the NFL draft next year
RE: Not speaking for Eric, but  
micky : 5/5/2015 11:40 am : link
In comment 12271957 JonC said:
Quote:
I suspect what he meant was where would he play? NYG is loyal (often to a fault), which means Schwartz gets every opportunity to keep his gig (RG, me thinks), as well as Pugh at LG. If things go well, your tackles and center are set.

I think both OGs are upgradeable, but would agree NYG would choose loyalty. Is Collins going to accept a roster spot given the above? I tend to doubt it.



don't the Giants also like to create competition at spots. just saying..
micky  
JonC : 5/5/2015 11:43 am : link
they do but it's generally to push underperformers (eg, Beatty), not sure if they view their OGs at that point yet. They actually don't do it enough, imv.
Agree, don't do it enough  
micky : 5/5/2015 11:56 am : link
an ideal position to be in if you can do it. I know the ole adage you can never have enough corners etc, but stock piling at another position, in this case OL (defensive line would be too imho) can only be beneficial as we all know, esp case with this team lately, injury factor. However, like said...many things in play with Collins...legal issue first and foremost, and his now choice to where to go if cleared. And, Giants thinking as of now where they stand.
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