Really dude? Do you not think the fact that he knows ODB might be appealing?
Or did you just come to bitch? Sign him. Let the chips fall. This would be huge.
You think OBJ is the only other person to play at LSU or with him on a NFL roster? Does that even make sense to you? Don't most teams in the NFL have at least one player from LSU on their roster? Does that mean the Bengals are in the mix too?
...if Collins is cleared of any wrongdoing in this legal case, there is no downside for the Giants to sign him. That could also be said for the other 31 teams. What criteria Collins will use in picking which team to sign with, I won't presume to know.
...if Collins is cleared of any wrongdoing in this legal case, there is no downside for the Giants to sign him. That could also be said for the other 31 teams. What criteria Collins will use in picking which team to sign with, I won't presume to know.
And that's the point, all 32 teams would be "in the mix". The column was purely speculative that OBJ was a factor.
But not having anywhere to play is a very, very temporary issue. You know someone is going to get hurt during the season and he would get plenty of PT then. Not to mention a spot would be his next season, giving him some time this year to deal with things and adjust if he needs to. The question is how much PT he wants immediately and I assume he'll go to the team that needs him the most right now.
Collins if he has a choice may not want to come here. His path to a starting job my be blocked. Although I suppose TC and co. could make it clear that the best guy will play. That he can earn his way. It is not like our o line is loaded with talent
That said if the Giants have a salary number they are comfortable with regarding the cap, I say bring him on board.
What would be the downside? In theory it would be having two first round caliber talents for the O line. WHat would be wrong with that?
Collins is likely getting the same contract no matter where he signs. The only variables are:
- how much of the base salaries are guaranteed - if he's cleared, some team(s) will likely guarantee it all (~$500k per year for 3 years)
- how much does he get as a signing bonus - max would theoretically be ~$80k if there's a team that hasn't given any of it's allotment to other UDFAs
So at this point it really comes down to which team is going to maximize his value over the next 3 seasons so that he can get a big payday when he hits FA.
While the Giants don't have an obvious hole for him to plug in 2015 (assuming Flowers starts Day 1), they do have 2 guys getting older that will likely be replaced in 2016/2017.
There's also the old adage about OL being "the sum is greater than the parts". You think Zach Martin would've looked as good joining the Atlanta line last year? Or did stepping into an already strong OL help him settle in more quickly and make it easier to cover up any mistakes he made? So battling for a starting spot this year and then stepping into a starting role in a (hopefully) strong, young OL (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers) could be enticing to him.
By today's standards, he and Beatty are undersized. We are now focusing on bringing in big bodied, push the pile, O Lineman. Schwartz was the first piece, Flowers & Hart next, and now possibly La'el. During the NY Giants MSG Draft Show, Reese said that the 5 best O Lineman would play. Collins is the best out of our whole lot, including Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers.
with bringing Collins in from the Giants side. Even though it looks like we have enough talent on the OL right now, there are still several question marks.
Can Beatty put back to back healthy/good years together?
Can Schwartz stay healthy for 16 games? And if he does, how good is he?
Can Flowers start from Day 1?
Is Pugh going to be as good of a player at Guard as everyone here seems to think, given that hes had little/no experience there?
There is also a good chance that Collins is just flat out BETTER than at least one of the 4 guys playing at Tackle or Guard. The ball is really in his court as to whether he would want a chance to start right away.
By today's standards, he and Beatty are undersized. We are now focusing on bringing in big bodied, push the pile, O Lineman. Schwartz was the first piece, Flowers & Hart next, and now possibly La'el. During the NY Giants MSG Draft Show, Reese said that the 5 best O Lineman would play. Collins is the best out of our whole lot, including Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers.
Just because he's undersized does not mean he can't be effective. He was certainly effective when he was healthy as a rookie.
Evan Mathis is an all-pro level talent at no more than 299 pounds.
Guard might be a position where Pugh becomes an impact player.
By today's standards, he and Beatty are undersized. We are now focusing on bringing in big bodied, push the pile, O Lineman. Schwartz was the first piece, Flowers & Hart next, and now possibly La'el. During the NY Giants MSG Draft Show, Reese said that the 5 best O Lineman would play. Collins is the best out of our whole lot, including Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers.
Not sure how some of you don't see what Eric is saying here.
Sure he might be able to come in here and win a starting spot after a long training camp and preseason battle. There is a chance. A chance. This team is one without any guarantee for him.
But there are some terrible offensive lines out there who are damn desperate and in need of any swinging dick to come in and be handed a spot. His agent will know this.
If his pay is going to be the same and shitty no matter where he ends up, why not go somewhere that doesn't even have a starter quality guard?
...if Collins is cleared of any wrongdoing in this legal case, there is no downside for the Giants to sign him. That could also be said for the other 31 teams. What criteria Collins will use in picking which team to sign with, I won't presume to know.
And that's the point, all 32 teams would be "in the mix". The column was purely speculative that OBJ was a factor.
Mason, I believe you are misinterpreting my point. Many have said "there is no place for him", or "It doesn't make sense for him to sign here"; both are complete nonsense. There is obviously a place for him on the roster, whether it is a starting spot or not is up to his performance in camp. Stating that it doesn't make sense for him to sign here is presuming to know his priorities and goals.
So, #1 is false and #2 is not known by those on this website.
The article was not in my thinking when I posted, which looked like a lot of words with little information to me.
By today's standards, he and Beatty are undersized. We are now focusing on bringing in big bodied, push the pile, O Lineman. Schwartz was the first piece, Flowers & Hart next, and now possibly La'el. During the NY Giants MSG Draft Show, Reese said that the 5 best O Lineman would play. Collins is the best out of our whole lot, including Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers.
Just because he's undersized does not mean he can't be effective. He was certainly effective when he was healthy as a rookie.
Evan Mathis is an all-pro level talent at no more than 299 pounds.
Guard might be a position where Pugh becomes an impact player.
Pugh had an off sophomore year bc he was playing next to a guy he wasn't even supposed to be on the field ... for those who understand the game and have played, you would realize this ... Jerry was awful
our draft/ufa class would be amazing...3 first round talents and a second round talent...we would go from the dumpiest O-line to top 5 in the league...eli threw 30 tds with a terd line last year, he can get close to 40 with actually time and a running game...do it!
"where would he play?" stuff is really crazy to me. This kid was considered as good a prospect as Scherff and Flowers by some. If those 2 could start for the Giants, why wouldn't Collins be able to?
Because TC is going to tell him to come win a spot.
The
DanMetroMan : 3:49 pm : link : reply
"where would he play?" stuff is really crazy to me. This kid was considered as good a prospect as Scherff and Flowers by some. If those 2 could start for the Giants, why wouldn't Collins be able to?
There may be other teams out there that hand it to him.
...no need for depth or thoughts for the future because nobody ever gets hurt or under-performs or leave through FA or get cut to save cap. Everything stays exactly as it is right now.
SOMEONE tell me why this isnt an easy decision? Its not like the contract would be huge and you potentially land a first round talent...to me its like getting TWO first round OL for price of one...get this shit done!!
You could be talking about
Beatty Pugh Richburg Schwartz Flowers with Collins as depth at G and T...its not like we have guys who are rocks and never miss any time!
To my its a no brainer. thoughts?
RE: Because TC is going to tell him to come win a spot.
The
DanMetroMan : 3:49 pm : link : reply
"where would he play?" stuff is really crazy to me. This kid was considered as good a prospect as Scherff and Flowers by some. If those 2 could start for the Giants, why wouldn't Collins be able to?
There may be other teams out there that hand it to him.
Do you know that this is what he is looking for? He wants to be handed a starting spot as his top priority?
My only point is with the article and the very misleading headline
I clicked and thought oh boy, he met with the Giants or something on the lines of there is real evidence of interest between both parties. Not some unnamed source stating the obvious about how the Giants would like to have him on the team if his situation clears up. I don't consider that being in the mix of anything.
seeing that he just got shit out of millions of dollars (assuming found innocent), he is going to want to get on the field as soon as possible to work on his contract #2 as he has no choice but to take an extremely low UDFA contract right now. A lot harder to do that when you ride a bench.
The more top picks we can through in the competition the better the
OL will be. Put Pugh, Flowers, Beatty, Schwartz, and Collins out there and 4 will win. The other one will be a great backup. The depth and quality we would have is a huge upgrade.
As I said repeatedly on the Bills/Dolphins Collins thread...
...the number of snaps Collins gets in 2015 will have very little impact on his long-term financial outcome. He will be stuck working for peanuts in 2016 and 2017 no matter what happens this year. He can make a couple of hundred thousand from the performance-based pool if he starts. Otherwise, playing time really won't matter until at least 2016.
What matters in the near term is whether he earns an accrued season of NFL service. That's how he can advance him toward the big payday a few years down the road.
Pugh isn't close in talent level to Collins nor Flowers.
If we sign Collins, he'll start somewhere on our OL. Whether or not we sign Collins, do you see us running behind Justin Pugh on 3rd and 1? Sorry I don't. In that respect Pugh is limited. Maybe he can become an effective G, but Collins is the better player between the 2, hands down.
Really dude? Do you not think the fact that he knows ODB might be appealing?
Or did you just come to bitch? Sign him. Let the chips fall. This would be huge.
You think OBJ is the only other person to play at LSU or with him on a NFL roster? Does that even make sense to you? Don't most teams in the NFL have at least one player from LSU on their roster? Does that mean the Bengals are in the mix too?
I always like to believe the Giants are an appealing team to play for. Good history and a team that's respects work ethic, not just production. I'm not the person who made the original statement but I do know the OL is still a question mark. Who knows?
He would be good for the Giants, especially next year
...funny that seems incredibly short sighted to me.
I'd go to an organization that is well respected for how it treats its players. Seeing as it will be 3 seasons before I am looking at a payday, I am looking for a OL that will be strong around me to make me look better in that last year. Maybe back up an learn for a season and not put my body on the line more than necessary because I just lost 3 early years of earning potential and I want my career as long as possible. All kinds of things to think about, but since the money will be the same today, it doesn't matter whether a starting job is there today. It matters right before the first contract ends and what position I will be in.
I'm not claiming NY is the best spot for him, but to sit here and claim you know what his priorities are is foolish. To say that his priorities should be where he can get a starting spot as a rookie is incredibly short sighted.
RE: As I said repeatedly on the Bills/Dolphins Collins thread...
...the number of snaps Collins gets in 2015 will have very little impact on his long-term financial outcome. He will be stuck working for peanuts in 2016 and 2017 no matter what happens this year. He can make a couple of hundred thousand from the performance-based pool if he starts. Otherwise, playing time really won't matter until at least 2016.
What matters in the near term is whether he earns an accrued season of NFL service. That's how he can advance him toward the big payday a few years down the road.
Exactly
RE: Not sure how some of you don't see what Eric is saying here.
Sure he might be able to come in here and win a starting spot after a long training camp and preseason battle. There is a chance. A chance. This team is one without any guarantee for him.
But there are some terrible offensive lines out there who are damn desperate and in need of any swinging dick to come in and be handed a spot. His agent will know this.
If his pay is going to be the same and shitty no matter where he ends up, why not go somewhere that doesn't even have a starter quality guard?
While I agree that he likely ends up on a team with a shitty OL, being surrounded by poor OL play could make him look worse.
This seems like a fluff piece by Raananand a matter of
saying the right things to look like you're doing your due diligence by Reese. I'd wager long odds on his coming to the Giants, although I'd love for it to happen.
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
I hope they go for LC and while I think Schwartz deserves a 2nd shot
He is not an asset I'd hang onto if the opportunity arose to get a 1st round talent. He was a somewhat boom or bust pickup, in a weak FA crop, who proceeded to add 2 more serious injuries to a career list that's far more lengthy than his on the field accomplishments. They can cut him or June 1 cut him to make the cap work if necessary. He has the capacity to be an above average player and he seems like a good guy so I'm certainly not cutting him for no reason, but if LC is interested coming here and it's a factor I'd do it. This entire scenario is weird, but if LC did sign here I would possibly want to cut JS anyway (or at least ask him to take a big paycut). It's like in national signing day in college, when a 5 star guy commits to Bama they push out someone else at the bottom of the roster.
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
I always thought Pugh was too slight to play guard
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
yeah right, and pigs fly.
So you're calling him a lair. Do you have any basis for that or is it just libel?
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
yeah right, and pigs fly.
So you're calling him a lair. Do you have any basis for that or is it just libel?
imagine Beckham is why we're "in the mix." Coming to a team with a former teammate could be a way of stabilizing a very chaotic experience. But I still think he ends up elsewhere. As others have said, there really is no place for him. He needs to go to a team where he can start.
I disagree, he needs to go to a situation with a coaching staff that can help him regain his image. Everyone knows he can play...that is not in question.
He needs to go to a stable situation where he can rebuild his image off the field. That should be goal #1 at least if I were him. He can play the game, no one is questioning that.
If he did nothing wrong other then having an ex-GF who was murdered, what image exactly does he need to rebuild?
Quote:
How do you get a column from this revelation?
Really dude? Do you not think the fact that he knows ODB might be appealing?
Or did you just come to bitch? Sign him. Let the chips fall. This would be huge.
You think OBJ is the only other person to play at LSU or with him on a NFL roster? Does that even make sense to you? Don't most teams in the NFL have at least one player from LSU on their roster? Does that mean the Bengals are in the mix too?
And that's the point, all 32 teams would be "in the mix". The column was purely speculative that OBJ was a factor.
That said if the Giants have a salary number they are comfortable with regarding the cap, I say bring him on board.
What would be the downside? In theory it would be having two first round caliber talents for the O line. WHat would be wrong with that?
Collins is likely getting the same contract no matter where he signs. The only variables are:
- how much of the base salaries are guaranteed - if he's cleared, some team(s) will likely guarantee it all (~$500k per year for 3 years)
- how much does he get as a signing bonus - max would theoretically be ~$80k if there's a team that hasn't given any of it's allotment to other UDFAs
So at this point it really comes down to which team is going to maximize his value over the next 3 seasons so that he can get a big payday when he hits FA.
While the Giants don't have an obvious hole for him to plug in 2015 (assuming Flowers starts Day 1), they do have 2 guys getting older that will likely be replaced in 2016/2017.
There's also the old adage about OL being "the sum is greater than the parts". You think Zach Martin would've looked as good joining the Atlanta line last year? Or did stepping into an already strong OL help him settle in more quickly and make it easier to cover up any mistakes he made? So battling for a starting spot this year and then stepping into a starting role in a (hopefully) strong, young OL (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers) could be enticing to him.
Can Beatty put back to back healthy/good years together?
Can Schwartz stay healthy for 16 games? And if he does, how good is he?
Can Flowers start from Day 1?
Is Pugh going to be as good of a player at Guard as everyone here seems to think, given that hes had little/no experience there?
There is also a good chance that Collins is just flat out BETTER than at least one of the 4 guys playing at Tackle or Guard. The ball is really in his court as to whether he would want a chance to start right away.
Just because he's undersized does not mean he can't be effective. He was certainly effective when he was healthy as a rookie.
Evan Mathis is an all-pro level talent at no more than 299 pounds.
Guard might be a position where Pugh becomes an impact player.
But there are some terrible offensive lines out there who are damn desperate and in need of any swinging dick to come in and be handed a spot. His agent will know this.
If his pay is going to be the same and shitty no matter where he ends up, why not go somewhere that doesn't even have a starter quality guard?
Quote:
...if Collins is cleared of any wrongdoing in this legal case, there is no downside for the Giants to sign him. That could also be said for the other 31 teams. What criteria Collins will use in picking which team to sign with, I won't presume to know.
And that's the point, all 32 teams would be "in the mix". The column was purely speculative that OBJ was a factor.
So, #1 is false and #2 is not known by those on this website.
The article was not in my thinking when I posted, which looked like a lot of words with little information to me.
Quote:
By today's standards, he and Beatty are undersized. We are now focusing on bringing in big bodied, push the pile, O Lineman. Schwartz was the first piece, Flowers & Hart next, and now possibly La'el. During the NY Giants MSG Draft Show, Reese said that the 5 best O Lineman would play. Collins is the best out of our whole lot, including Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers.
Just because he's undersized does not mean he can't be effective. He was certainly effective when he was healthy as a rookie.
Evan Mathis is an all-pro level talent at no more than 299 pounds.
Guard might be a position where Pugh becomes an impact player.
Pugh had an off sophomore year bc he was playing next to a guy he wasn't even supposed to be on the field ... for those who understand the game and have played, you would realize this ... Jerry was awful
DanMetroMan : 3:49 pm : link : reply
"where would he play?" stuff is really crazy to me. This kid was considered as good a prospect as Scherff and Flowers by some. If those 2 could start for the Giants, why wouldn't Collins be able to?
There may be other teams out there that hand it to him.
You could be talking about
Beatty Pugh Richburg Schwartz Flowers with Collins as depth at G and T...its not like we have guys who are rocks and never miss any time!
To my its a no brainer. thoughts?
Quote:
The
DanMetroMan : 3:49 pm : link : reply
"where would he play?" stuff is really crazy to me. This kid was considered as good a prospect as Scherff and Flowers by some. If those 2 could start for the Giants, why wouldn't Collins be able to?
There may be other teams out there that hand it to him.
What matters in the near term is whether he earns an accrued season of NFL service. That's how he can advance him toward the big payday a few years down the road.
Quote:
In comment 12272443 Mason said:
Quote:
How do you get a column from this revelation?
Really dude? Do you not think the fact that he knows ODB might be appealing?
Or did you just come to bitch? Sign him. Let the chips fall. This would be huge.
You think OBJ is the only other person to play at LSU or with him on a NFL roster? Does that even make sense to you? Don't most teams in the NFL have at least one player from LSU on their roster? Does that mean the Bengals are in the mix too?
I always like to believe the Giants are an appealing team to play for. Good history and a team that's respects work ethic, not just production. I'm not the person who made the original statement but I do know the OL is still a question mark. Who knows?
2016:
LT Flowers
LG Pugh
C Richburg
RG Schwartz
RT Collins
I'd go to an organization that is well respected for how it treats its players. Seeing as it will be 3 seasons before I am looking at a payday, I am looking for a OL that will be strong around me to make me look better in that last year. Maybe back up an learn for a season and not put my body on the line more than necessary because I just lost 3 early years of earning potential and I want my career as long as possible. All kinds of things to think about, but since the money will be the same today, it doesn't matter whether a starting job is there today. It matters right before the first contract ends and what position I will be in.
I'm not claiming NY is the best spot for him, but to sit here and claim you know what his priorities are is foolish. To say that his priorities should be where he can get a starting spot as a rookie is incredibly short sighted.
What matters in the near term is whether he earns an accrued season of NFL service. That's how he can advance him toward the big payday a few years down the road.
But there are some terrible offensive lines out there who are damn desperate and in need of any swinging dick to come in and be handed a spot. His agent will know this.
If his pay is going to be the same and shitty no matter where he ends up, why not go somewhere that doesn't even have a starter quality guard?
While I agree that he likely ends up on a team with a shitty OL, being surrounded by poor OL play could make him look worse.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
Quote:
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
yeah right, and pigs fly.
Quote:
In comment 12272557 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
yeah right, and pigs fly.
So you're calling him a lair. Do you have any basis for that or is it just libel?
Quote:
In comment 12272563 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12272557 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Meanwhile, bringing Collins a board provides not only necessary depth but a likely a young starter for 2016 as both Beatty and Schwartz's cap numbers wouldn't result in a huge hit.
He's not speculating. He has a source.
yeah right, and pigs fly.
So you're calling him a lair. Do you have any basis for that or is it just libel?
Quote:
imagine Beckham is why we're "in the mix." Coming to a team with a former teammate could be a way of stabilizing a very chaotic experience. But I still think he ends up elsewhere. As others have said, there really is no place for him. He needs to go to a team where he can start.
I disagree, he needs to go to a situation with a coaching staff that can help him regain his image. Everyone knows he can play...that is not in question.
He needs to go to a stable situation where he can rebuild his image off the field. That should be goal #1 at least if I were him. He can play the game, no one is questioning that.
If he did nothing wrong other then having an ex-GF who was murdered, what image exactly does he need to rebuild?