If you were the GM of the Giants?? Not if you were Reese and what he would do. Not what T.C. would do.
A simple or no will suffice. Trying to get a beat on what the consensus is here. Feel free to elaborate if you feel the need.
He was my number 1 guy for the Giants regardless if Scherff was on the board or not. Seeing as how our 5th, 6th and 7th picks have sucked for the past five years, I might have traded them all for him.
Point being, I feel the FO had a shot here and missed out. Got to take a chance like Jerrah every now and again. He was not a suspect as the L.A. police said. My feeling is that he annoyed the local authorities by saying, "I'm going to the Combine and I'll talk to y'all later."
The authorities then leaked the story to the press which forced him back to L.A. while, simultaneously, tanking his draft stock.
Just my take. We should have taken the flyer, IMO.
Me too...they now have a team full of criminals.
Right, so now im a Cowboys fan because im tired if the Giant 'Boy Scout' philosophy? I want to win games. Plain and simple. I wanted Burfict and Bruce Irvin. I want to win. Period. That makes me a Pukes fan?
Ok. Sure. Idiot.
Listen, we're talking about a very good OL prospect, but one that might well wind up at OG in the NFL. We're not talking about an elite prospect, and the Giants got one of the two OTs they wanted, one of the very best players in the entire draft on their board.
With the extra pick in the 7th, you take La'El Collins. (it has cost you absolutely nothing-since you still get Thompson in the 5th and your draft is identical, with the only addition being Collins)
You get Tisch involved. One of his Hollywood buddies gets Collins to do a documentary on the past 2 weeks of his life (especially after a killer is arrested).
Collins is paid for the documentary an amount at least equal to what he lost in signing.
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to be a Cowboy ... f'ing hate him
Me too...they now have a team full of criminals.
So now he's a criminal? This thread has now devolved into the typical BBI hypocrisy.
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fuck this cowboy fan.
Right, so now im a Cowboys fan because im tired if the Giant 'Boy Scout' philosophy? I want to win games. Plain and simple. I wanted Burfict and Bruce Irvin. I want to win. Period. That makes me a Pukes fan?
Ok. Sure. Idiot.
The entire league passed on Burfict in the draft. So, yeah, you're a super genius for nailing that one. One in a row! And I have no idea what you're on about with Bruce Irvin who was drafted something like 20 picks before the Giants picked.
There's no way to know whether Collins would have re-entered the draft. He had that leverage if a team spent the pick. He had to play if they didn't. All the teams passed on him. That's because it's not baseball where you can spend your bonus pool signing other guys if one decides not to sign.
And Jerrah hasn't won shit. Jerry has.
With the extra pick in the 7th, you take La'El Collins. (it has cost you absolutely nothing-since you still get Thompson in the 5th and your draft is identical, with the only addition being Collins)
You get Tisch involved. One of his Hollywood buddies gets Collins to do a documentary on the past 2 weeks of his life (especially after a killer is arrested).
Collins is paid for the documentary an amount at least equal to what he lost in signing.
Or Davis. Exactly. Something creative an outside the box rather than the standard ' get the good guy, team captain' rhetoric.
We haven't seen the playoff in 4 years. Time to change the MO.
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In comment 12277491 BeerFridge said:
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fuck this cowboy fan.
Right, so now im a Cowboys fan because im tired if the Giant 'Boy Scout' philosophy? I want to win games. Plain and simple. I wanted Burfict and Bruce Irvin. I want to win. Period. That makes me a Pukes fan?
Ok. Sure. Idiot.
The entire league passed on Burfict in the draft. So, yeah, you're a super genius for nailing that one. One in a row! And I have no idea what you're on about with Bruce Irvin who was drafted something like 20 picks before the Giants picked.
There's no way to know whether Collins would have re-entered the draft. He had that leverage if a team spent the pick. He had to play if they didn't. All the teams passed on him. That's because it's not baseball where you can spend your bonus pool signing other guys if one decides not to sign.
And Jerrah hasn't won shit. Jerry has.
So because the league passed, I missed?? Ok......
The sum total of the last twenty years or so years as GM is one playoff win against the Lions. Jerry is a two time Super Bowl champ in half the time
That is true for every team as they are kicking themselves in the ass right now while Dallas added a first round player to their team.
If he had decided to sign with the Giants the front office would be lauded. All 32 teams rolled the dice on this kid and they all came up craps, except the Cowboys. Nobody messed this up.
Perhaps Goodell said not to draft him behind closed doors. I'll never know. But my criticisms here are applicable to all teams. I'm over it - hopefully our line's good enough this year!
Perhaps Goodell said not to draft him behind closed doors. I'll never know. But my criticisms here are applicable to all teams. I'm over it - hopefully our line's good enough this year!
Did they really mishandle things though? Unless he's a total bust, he'll make more money this way then if he was drafted even in the 4th round, let alone the 7th. Hart is tied up for an extra season and only received an additional $700k.
Hell, John Jerry just signed a 2 year, $3.3M deal. So all Collins has to do is perform as well as Jerry and he comes out ahead as a UDFA compared to a 4th-7th round pick.
I'd argue his agent knew exactly what he was doing when he threatened to sit a year if Collins was drafted Day 3.
My 'mishandling' comment assumes that he wanted to be drafted - I guess if you fall out of the second or third round the alternative of having your pick of teams to go to could be preferable for a prospect of his caliber. Perhaps if his camp didn't make so much noise he would have been drafted in the fourth or fifth?
I sometimes have sporadic bouts of lucidity. It's not common, but it does happen.
My 'mishandling' comment assumes that he wanted to be drafted - I guess if you fall out of the second or third round the alternative of having your pick of teams to go to could be preferable for a prospect of his caliber. Perhaps if his camp didn't make so much noise he would have been drafted in the fourth or fifth?
I think even as a 4th round pick, he'd only get ~$2.7M over 4 years or only ~$1.1M more than he got as an UDFA despite being locked up for an extra year. Seems like a lot, but again even John Jerry earned more than that in FA.
He got a lot of attention because Carroll & Schneider were such geniuses in drafting him in the first surprising everyone, who (correctly) had him pegged as about a 3rd rounder, maybe late 2nd.
There's a reason they are passing on him for his 5th year option... and that reason is that they don't want him for $7.8 million on a 1 year deal... 'cause he's not worth it.
Tom is a phenomenal, Hall of Fame worthy coach, but I'm not sure that he or anyone else could've done for Burfict what Marvin Lewis did. It can't be understated how much of a mess Burfict was when he came out (and went undrafted after blaming his college coaches for his failings). Burfict sought Lewis out and Lewis took him under his wing.
Tom is a different kind of coach and I just don't believe Burfict's situation would've worked almost anywhere else than under Lewis in Cincinatti.
Although I agree with the latter capitalized sentence, the former has me confused.
Are you saying Collins is going to stop fucking future murder victims? From what I understand, that's more difficult than kicking hair-ron.
He's not up to the task.
Tom is a phenomenal, Hall of Fame worthy coach, but I'm not sure that he or anyone else could've done for Burfict what Marvin Lewis did. It can't be understated how much of a mess Burfict was when he came out (and went undrafted after blaming his college coaches for his failings). Burfict sought Lewis out and Lewis took him under his wing.
Tom is a different kind of coach and I just don't believe Burfict's situation would've worked almost anywhere else than under Lewis in Cincinatti.
Yes, you're so correct. After all TC couldn't handle Ahmad Bradshaw.
I'm so damn happy we didn't draft Scherff. That was the one pick I would've been very disappointed with.
I would've drafted Collins. I'm not going to bitch about it non-stop like some of the whiny girls on this site, but I'm definitely pissed about the way the Collins situation played out. IMO he's a Top 5 player in the draft and now I'm praying that I get that wrong.
all things being equal...
The Cowboys will always have an advantage over the NY Football Giants.
They play dirty - from the owner, down to the water boy.
Do we really want players who listen to the Devil, rather than the Angel on the other shoulder, who always take the easier, yet darker, path... on our team.?
I would've absolutely drafted him in the 7th. But it also wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of collusion going on to let this kid get the best of a raw deal, meaning no one would draft him.
as I said on another thread, his threat to not sign if drafted low is a potential bluff that wasn't called. He sits, loses a year of pay, drops in next years draft coz he hasn't played in a year. odds aren't that bad that he'd sign if he were drafted.
leaving out the conspiracy theory of collusion, and I'd draft him in the 7th in a heartbeat, presuming the backroom talk was that he wasn't a serious suspect (which it turns out he wasn't).
He was in the running as a UDFA for every team, and no one was all up in arms. there's no PR issue. there's only the risk of having to lose a 7th rd pick if he was implicated. drafting is no big deal, PR. signing if he turned out guilty is a different story. Well worth the risk.
60+ posts and counting, Britt. Seems somewhat valid, no? Everyone has their own take. I just wanted to see what us armchair GMa would do.
Seems split to me. I'll have to go back and count. For the ones that wrote simple, I'll count those as a yay.
After all, you posted.......
I would've absolutely drafted him in the 7th. But it also wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of collusion going on to let this kid get the best of a raw deal, meaning no one would draft him.
as I said on another thread, his threat to not sign if drafted low is a potential bluff that wasn't called. He sits, loses a year of pay, drops in next years draft coz he hasn't played in a year. odds aren't that bad that he'd sign if he were drafted.
leaving out the conspiracy theory of collusion, and I'd draft him in the 7th in a heartbeat, presuming the backroom talk was that he wasn't a serious suspect (which it turns out he wasn't).
He was in the running as a UDFA for every team, and no one was all up in arms. there's no PR issue. there's only the risk of having to lose a 7th rd pick if he was implicated. drafting is no big deal, PR. signing if he turned out guilty is a different story. Well worth the risk.
If I were him, I'd sue just to see what kind of emails you could uncover in discovery. If we are talking collusion, you know some asshole exec somewhere emailed something to someone.
Just look at those boobs in NE.
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that he was cleared up by one police interview. Going into the draft, the story was all about 'NFL must know the inside scoop', so he won't get drafted. The only thing that changed since then is the interview.
I would've absolutely drafted him in the 7th. But it also wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of collusion going on to let this kid get the best of a raw deal, meaning no one would draft him.
as I said on another thread, his threat to not sign if drafted low is a potential bluff that wasn't called. He sits, loses a year of pay, drops in next years draft coz he hasn't played in a year. odds aren't that bad that he'd sign if he were drafted.
leaving out the conspiracy theory of collusion, and I'd draft him in the 7th in a heartbeat, presuming the backroom talk was that he wasn't a serious suspect (which it turns out he wasn't).
He was in the running as a UDFA for every team, and no one was all up in arms. there's no PR issue. there's only the risk of having to lose a 7th rd pick if he was implicated. drafting is no big deal, PR. signing if he turned out guilty is a different story. Well worth the risk.
If I were him, I'd sue just to see what kind of emails you could uncover in discovery. If we are talking collusion, you know some asshole exec somewhere emailed something to someone.
Just look at those boobs in NE.
Yep, solid strategy. Come into the league with a shadow hanging over your head and immediately go on the offensive attacking your employer. That would surely help maximize his second contract, as teams would swarm to sign a guy like that.
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would've worked out under Tom Coughlin. Marvin Lewis was the right guy to mentor him and bring out the best in him. Marvin Lewis was able to be somebody who could ground him and get his focus where it needed to be.
Tom is a phenomenal, Hall of Fame worthy coach, but I'm not sure that he or anyone else could've done for Burfict what Marvin Lewis did. It can't be understated how much of a mess Burfict was when he came out (and went undrafted after blaming his college coaches for his failings). Burfict sought Lewis out and Lewis took him under his wing.
Tom is a different kind of coach and I just don't believe Burfict's situation would've worked almost anywhere else than under Lewis in Cincinatti.
Yes, you're so correct. After all TC couldn't handle Ahmad Bradshaw.
Hey Victor, sarcastic jackass-ery aside, Bradshaw was a boyscout compared to Burfict coming out. He certainly didn't have the crap attitude that Burfict did. Burfict sought out Marvin Lewis, too, because he knew he needed a mentor. I'm not saying TC couldn't have done it, just that his was a special case.
Burfict was out of shape his last year at ASU and out of shape at the combine.
He punched a teammate in the lockerroom at ASU.
He failed a piss test at the combine.
He blamed his college coaches for his failings.
And according to Mayock at the time, was one of the worst interviews at the combine.
Kudos for him turning it around. But to say he definitely would've made it here just the same, to me, is not totally 100%. He is a volatile person and needed grounding and a father figure that Lewis was able to be for him.
BTW, Burfict still is a dirty player. Remember when he tried to twist the ankles of the Panthers' players last year? Fined only $25k by the NFL.
There are some fans that think character is secondary to talent. I think character is just as important as talent. You can have a very talented team that is a loser because they lack character, but conversely, you can have a team with a lot of character that lacks enough talent to win. At least with the team with character, they are going to give you whatever they have to win and get better.
I'm glad the Giants are the organization that values character as much as they do. And if that means they miss out on a guy like Burfict here and there, I can live with that. They are doing something right, after all, 2 rings in the last 8 years... I can't really complain.
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In comment 12277768 allstarjim said:
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would've worked out under Tom Coughlin. Marvin Lewis was the right guy to mentor him and bring out the best in him. Marvin Lewis was able to be somebody who could ground him and get his focus where it needed to be.
Tom is a phenomenal, Hall of Fame worthy coach, but I'm not sure that he or anyone else could've done for Burfict what Marvin Lewis did. It can't be understated how much of a mess Burfict was when he came out (and went undrafted after blaming his college coaches for his failings). Burfict sought Lewis out and Lewis took him under his wing.
Tom is a different kind of coach and I just don't believe Burfict's situation would've worked almost anywhere else than under Lewis in Cincinatti.
Yes, you're so correct. After all TC couldn't handle Ahmad Bradshaw.
Hey Victor, sarcastic jackass-ery aside, Bradshaw was a boyscout compared to Burfict coming out. He certainly didn't have the crap attitude that Burfict did. Burfict sought out Marvin Lewis, too, because he knew he needed a mentor. I'm not saying TC couldn't have done it, just that his was a special case.
Burfict was out of shape his last year at ASU and out of shape at the combine.
He punched a teammate in the lockerroom at ASU.
He failed a piss test at the combine.
He blamed his college coaches for his failings.
And according to Mayock at the time, was one of the worst interviews at the combine.
Kudos for him turning it around. But to say he definitely would've made it here just the same, to me, is not totally 100%. He is a volatile person and needed grounding and a father figure that Lewis was able to be for him.
BTW, Burfict still is a dirty player. Remember when he tried to twist the ankles of the Panthers' players last year? Fined only $25k by the NFL.
There are some fans that think character is secondary to talent. I think character is just as important as talent. You can have a very talented team that is a loser because they lack character, but conversely, you can have a team with a lot of character that lacks enough talent to win. At least with the team with character, they are going to give you whatever they have to win and get better.
I'm glad the Giants are the organization that values character as much as they do. And if that means they miss out on a guy like Burfict here and there, I can live with that. They are doing something right, after all, 2 rings in the last 8 years... I can't really complain.
I agree asj, I am proud that the Giants care about such things. I disagree that TC couldn't do anything that Lewis can do. And better.
I bet there is a decent chance he would have ended up playing for a team that drafted him in the 7th anyway tbh.
i think teams felt they looked better signing him as a free agent rather than drafting him and if he turns out to be guilty afterwards it wont be on the teams draft record for years to come
plus teams also figured it was less risk financially to cut an undrafted FA than a draft pick,now the cowboys have him i hope he doesnt play but would be the same for any other team not just the cowboys,a divisional rival getting him was the last thing we wanted
did the giants even try and sign him as they usually like thier players clean,captains of thier team/unit types and a possible murderer is anything but that?
All it is is a little game theory. Let's look at the facts.
1. If LC gets drafted late he makes MORE money by sitting out the year and re-entering the draft next year.
2. LC and his agents make it crystal clear to everyone that this is what they're going to do. There's no reason to not believe them since the financial incentives are in their favor.
3. As a result, any team that uses a 5, 6 or 7 on him just burns the pick. All you're doing is preventing a team from getting him for a year. Why be the one to take the hit and lose a pick for nothing?
4. As soon as the draft is over there's a scramble to sign him because if he's signed this way he can't re-enter the draft so a team has no risk. Of course lots of teams try to do this.
Just because teams tried to sign him does NOT mean they were dumb on passing on him. As someone above said, everyone played this the right way, Dallas was just lucky enough to get him.
There is no other way the Giants could have played this and gotten La'el to sign with them. None. Let's move on.