re: Zimmerman - he was told by dispatch that it was unnecessary for him to follow Martin, as he was not a cop and had no police powers. he ignored that direction and an avoidable encounter ensued, which is exactly why he was told not to follow Martin. He may have been getting the worst of the fight and felt that he had no way out but to use his gun. but again, had he simply followed the advice of the agency he initially contacted, Martin would not have been shot. does not mean he should have been convicted of murder - but to try and portray him as an innocent assault victim is selectively choosing the facts.
And it has precisely what to do with the evidence in that case?
Well there was a big push t paint Martin as a thug, while white washing Zimmerman's past. The facts though are that Zimmerman was the only one with a criminal record. One case involved an altercation with police. In addition the only way you know for sure he was getting beaten on by Martin, Is Zimmerman's story.
Honestly, I can't believe he still has supporters.
On January 9, 2015, Zimmerman was arrested by Lake Murray police and charged with aggravated assault with a weapon after allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his ex-girlfriend.
Supporters? I don't give a flying fuck what he's done since then, and if any of you were honest, neither do any of you. This is entirely about what happened several years ago, otherwise none of this would be posted here so you guys can engage in yet another session of furious back-patting.
This. You can easily subscribe to the theory that Trayvon defended himself. If you ignore witness accounts and pesky facts.
I think he's at least somewhat mentally unstable. And he allowed himself to think that because he was found not guilty, that he is like some vigilante superhero above the law now. I wouldn't say the guy has supporters at all. There are those that believe his version of what happened on the night he shot Trayvon was pretty close to the truth (the version supported by physical evidence and eyewitnesses). Everything since then, however, really is irrelevant as to what happened, and it would surprise no one to see him in future legal trouble in some way or another.
You have to look at the situation objectively. At the time, the evidence pointed to Trayvon attacking him (likely because Zimmerman was watching him).
Zimmerman's injuries supported his account.
He can, at the same time, be an insufferable dirtbag, and a victim. He can, at the same time, have legally defended himself against an attacker, and also be a head case.
And, both he and Trayvon both may have been, let's just say, not the finest examples of humanity, where both of their actions contributed to what transpired.
You don't have to believe George Zimmerman is a great guy to believe he was attacked and legally used lethal force to defend himself.
This is what I think of the whole thing... and the jury at the time agreed after reviewing all of the evidence and witness testimony.
What injuries supported that? The Medical examiner herself said his injuries were "Insignificant"
wondered why Gary spurned the Giants after we drafted him in the supplemental draft in 1986. He couldn't have been a big part of the Giant success during that period.
RE: RE: RE: OR. Maybe he IS a fucking lunatic... Â
Honestly, I can't believe he still has supporters.
On January 9, 2015, Zimmerman was arrested by Lake Murray police and charged with aggravated assault with a weapon after allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his ex-girlfriend.
Supporters? I don't give a flying fuck what he's done since then, and if any of you were honest, neither do any of you. This is entirely about what happened several years ago, otherwise none of this would be posted here so you guys can engage in yet another session of furious back-patting.
This. You can easily subscribe to the theory that Trayvon defended himself. If you ignore witness accounts and pesky facts.
I think he's at least somewhat mentally unstable. And he allowed himself to think that because he was found not guilty, that he is like some vigilante superhero above the law now. I wouldn't say the guy has supporters at all. There are those that believe his version of what happened on the night he shot Trayvon was pretty close to the truth (the version supported by physical evidence and eyewitnesses). Everything since then, however, really is irrelevant as to what happened, and it would surprise no one to see him in future legal trouble in some way or another.
Oh... so I guess only Zimmerman had the right to defend himself that night huh? Oh wait... he wasn't the one being followed by a guy with a gun was he?
Only a fool would suggest someone should wait until the injuries were significant enough to cause unconsciousness, severe bodily injury, or death, before it is justifiable to defend oneself.
Only a fool would suggest someone should wait until the injuries were significant enough to cause unconsciousness, severe bodily injury, or death, before it is justifiable to defend oneself.
I guess you know more then the medical examiner then:
Quote:
n Tuesday, a medical examiner called by prosecutors testified that Mr. Zimmerman's injuries not only were not life-threatening, but also were "very insignificant." Her assessment addresses a key aspect of the trial, in which Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain of his gated community in Sanford, Fla., faces second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of the unarmed teen on Feb. 26, 2012.
Dr. Valerie Rao, the medical examiner for Duval, Clay, and Nassau Counties in northern Florida, said Zimmerman’s injuries could have been the result of a single blow during a confrontation between the two.
Are you so much of a moron that you would wait until you were suffering "serious" injuries before you defended yourself?
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
You adding "approaching Martin" is clear speculation and conjecture on your part. The evidence supported Martin doubled back, hid from Zimmerman, then jumped out and approached him.
Regardless, even if your fictionalizing of events were true, Zimmerman's actions do not have to be justified or advisable for him to have been within his rights to defend himself.
And not you or anyone else is within their rights to attack someone you perceive or is actually following or watching you when in a public place.
But the incident occurred because Zimmerman is undeniably unstable with serious anger issues.
A guy who Angela Corey (who's a worthless sack of shit, btw, for many other cases besides this one - look up Marissa Alexander if you don't believe me) tried to railroad, who the media tried dishonestly to brand a racist, who has received innumerable death threats since as a result.....that guy has serious anger issues now? Shocking! I don't believe it.
Are you so much of a moron that you would wait until you were suffering "serious" injuries before you defended yourself?
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
LMAO....Hey Dipshit, the MEDICAL EXAMINER stated that his injuries were most likely caused by one punch, not the "Pounding into the pavement" you keep claiming. If these were such life threatening injuries why did he wait until the next day to get examined at a clinic? Why no x-rays? Why does an actual doctor who examined the evidence claim they were extremely minor injuries?
You can sit here and try to claim this "Well if he falls just right, he might actually get injured" line of stupid, but the actual facts of the case are that his injuries were minor despite you trying to claim otherwise. Don't try to spin your claim now idiot, acknowledge that your wrong
RE: RE: RE: RE: Well, if you aren't a supporter... Â
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
You adding "approaching Martin" is clear speculation and conjecture on your part. The evidence supported Martin doubled back, hid from Zimmerman, then jumped out and approached him.
Regardless, even if your fictionalizing of events were true, Zimmerman's actions do not have to be justified or advisable for him to have been within his rights to defend himself.
And not you or anyone else is within their rights to attack someone you perceive or is actually following or watching you when in a public place.
Are you slow? njm stated that he approached Martin, I just asked how that would justified then
RE: RE: RE: RE: Well, if you aren't a supporter... Â
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
A prosecution witness minimized Zimmerman's injuries? Â
Are you so much of a moron that you would wait until you were suffering "serious" injuries before you defended yourself?
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
RE: A prosecution witness minimized Zimmerman's injuries? Â
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
RE: RE: A prosecution witness minimized Zimmerman's injuries? Â
The devil you say! I'm nonplussed! Is that the right word?
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
So based on that logic, I take it you believe OJ is innocent correct?
Since there is virtually no exculpatory evidence that should have cleared OJ....no. But invoking OJ is a pretty good sign that you don't have a whole helluva lot to use here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well, if you aren't a supporter... Â
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
RE: RE: aaaaand.....again.....all this has fuck-all to do with the Martin Â
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
RE: RE: RE: aaaaand.....again.....all this has fuck-all to do with the Martin Â
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
For the last fucking time "Stand You Ground" had nothing to do with this case.
Nothing. To. Do. With. It. Completely different scenario. Your cutesy pun only exposes the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
So, back to your argument - he "chased him right up to the end"? So, you're now positing that Zimmerman just chased Martin the entire time, and what? "Something" happened? An armed man somehow initiated a physical confrontation with an unarmed man and got his ass kicked? Does that make any sense? Unless he in fact was jumped by the unarmed man, who of course had no idea at that point that the guy he was attacked was armed.
Because I believe in the rule of law? I know, I know, crazy thing to believe in the mobocracy we're becoming, but some people actually do take it seriously.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well, if you aren't a supporter... Â
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
Of course he was a lot less certain... the only person to dispute Zimmerman's claim is dead. Isn't that nice how that all ties itself together?
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
So is it not plausible that someone with his history, is not looking for a defendable situation to be able to shoot someone? Because it sure seems to me like this guy LOOKS for trouble and reasons to be able to unload a weapon.
is a raving fucking lunatic who needs to be locked away before he kills somebody else.
I'm not sure how anybody with half a brain cannot see that his continued crazy behavior sheds serious doubt on his self-defense story in the Martin case.
So is it not plausible that someone with his history, is not looking for a defendable situation to be able to shoot someone? Because it sure seems to me like this guy LOOKS for trouble and reasons to be able to unload a weapon.
If all he wanted to do was shoot someone, why wait until he's in a fucking fistfight to do it? Why not just plug him right away? Also, enlighten me - when else has Zimmerman "unloaded a weapon"? I'm assuming you have some citation?
is a raving fucking lunatic who needs to be locked away before he kills somebody else.
I'm not sure how anybody with half a brain cannot see that his continued crazy behavior sheds serious doubt on his self-defense story in the Martin case.
Unless you just like to argue..
Honestly I have the feeling that people that are on the side of "every yahoo should be able to carry a gun always" have to defend this particular lunatic asshole because he puts a crimp in the gun logic... lol
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
For the last fucking time "Stand You Ground" had nothing to do with this case.
Nothing. To. Do. With. It. Completely different scenario. Your cutesy pun only exposes the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
So, back to your argument - he "chased him right up to the end"? So, you're now positing that Zimmerman just chased Martin the entire time, and what? "Something" happened? An armed man somehow initiated a physical confrontation with an unarmed man and got his ass kicked? Does that make any sense? Unless he in fact was jumped by the unarmed man, who of course had no idea at that point that the guy he was attacked was armed.
Heh, ok Greg. I have no idea why you defend Zimmerman or even why you think it makes sense to apply a logical decision making process to this crazy person who keeps getting involved in shit, threatening people, whatever. I'm sure he's lucky to have you to take up his cause on the internet, though. I'm sure there's a good reason why this time, it wasn't his fault. Also, here are the jury instructions that specifically reference stand your ground. I'm out. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: A prosecution witness minimized Zimmerman's injuries? Â
The devil you say! I'm nonplussed! Is that the right word?
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
So based on that logic, I take it you believe OJ is innocent correct?
Since there is virtually no exculpatory evidence that should have cleared OJ....no. But invoking OJ is a pretty good sign that you don't have a whole helluva lot to use here.
Yeah I guess those gloves not fitting was a fantasy
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Check out Bernie Goetz. Similar situation IF GZ was trying to instigate a 'justified' shooting. Goetz was found innocent but he was tried for murder. If he had a past like GZ and it was introduced in court what would have happened?
You really are a special kind of stupid. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856
Quote:
Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time.
During the defense's cross examination of Rao, Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara got Rao to concede that his client's injuries could have been caused by more than three impacts. She also indicated that abrasions on Martin's knuckles were consistent with him striking someone.
If is on top of me beating me, and/or banging my head into concrete, I'm not waiting for him to continue to beat me if I can do something about it. If you agree that Martin attacked Zimmerman, if you agree that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, then you have to acknowledge that Zimmerman legally shot Martin. Unless you are a complete moron. Doesn't mean he's a great guy... just means he shot in self-defense as allowable under the law.
Two witnesses called by the prosecution today described George Zimmerman as being on the losing end of a fight with Trayvon Martin in the moments before Zimmerman shot the Florida teenager.
However, an EMT who was on the scene immediately following the shooting testified that she treated Zimmerman for five minutes before releasing him into police care.
Zimmerman, 29, is facing second degree murder charges for shooting and killing Martin on Feb. 26, 2012. He maintains he shot Martin, 17, in self defense after his head was slammed several times against a concrete sidewalk.
John Good told the jury today that he yelled "stop" at both men shortly after realizing that what he at first assumed to be a dog attack was actually two men grappling on the ground.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
"I said cut it out. I'm calling 911 because it was getting serious," said Good.
Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman.
"The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red," Good said referring to the men's clothing.
At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had "lighter skin color."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
"The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help,'" he said.
George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
Under cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman "MMA style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
"The person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom?"asked Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara.
"Correct," said Good
Good testified that he did not see Martin banging Zimmerman's head on the concrete.
His account was accompanied by a recording of Good's 911 call to police in which he is heard telling the dispatcher that he heard a gunshot.
"I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out there. Holy sh**. .. There's a black guy down and he's been shot. It looks like he is dead," Good said.
Jonathan Manalo, who also lived near the shooting scene, testified today that Zimmerman told him just moments after Martin was killed to call his wife and say "Just tell her I shot someone."
Manalo did not see the confrontation between Zimmerman and the unarmed teenager, but walked outside of his home with a flashlight moments after hearing a gunshot.
He said Zimmerman looked like he had "got his butt beat," but was "speaking clearly."
Manalo took photos of Zimmerman's bloody nose, the back of his bloody head, Martin's body lying face down in the grass and a flashlight on the ground.
He says Zimmerman told him as he approached, "This guy was beating me up. I was defending myself and I shot him."
Stacy Livingston, an EMT who arrived on the scene, said she treated Zimmerman -- who was complaining of dizziness -- for five minutes before releasing him into police custody.
In addition, Police Officer Tim Smith told the court he took Zimmerman into custody on the night of the shooting and that the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and had bits of grass on it, and the back of his pants appeared wet. It had been raining that night and the ground was wet.
Again, you don't have to wait until injuries are "life-threatening" before using deadly force if you are being attacked. Even the notion of this is laughably stupid.
So you can cherry-pick one comment made by the medical examiner who was dealing in "maybe's" and "could have's" all you want... but the jury considered the totality of the evidence, and most fair-minded people do the same. At least 3 blows, lmao.
Again, anyone who says Zimmerman "approached" Martin is being speculative, btw, and really is immaterial as to the legality of using lethal force.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well, if you aren't a supporter... Â
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
Of course he was a lot less certain... the only person to dispute Zimmerman's claim is dead. Isn't that nice how that all ties itself together?
Then perhaps the way to leave this is that this is one case where we wished there was a surveillance camera. And without that we really don't know what happened in those final minutes after the 911 call Zimmerman made.
RE: RE: RE: RE: aaaaand.....again.....all this has fuck-all to do with the Martin Â
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Check out Bernie Goetz. Similar situation IF GZ was trying to instigate a 'justified' shooting. Goetz was found innocent but he was tried for murder. If he had a past like GZ and it was introduced in court what would have happened?
Well you have to take into account different state laws. Goetz never would have been tried in Florida
Also, here are the jury instructions that specifically reference stand your ground. I'm out. - ( New Window )
Whoops!
[quote]That matched the assessment of legal experts who earlier Monday were describing the verdict on Saturday as the result of successful, garden-variety self-defense arguments that could sway a jury in any state.
Though these observers said Florida's expanded self-defense law, which says citizens can "stand their ground" rather than retreat in the face of a deadly threat has emboldened citizens to take unnecessary risks and led to an increase in homicides, they detected little impact on the Zimmerman case.
[quote] Link - ( New Window )
Well there was a big push t paint Martin as a thug, while white washing Zimmerman's past. The facts though are that Zimmerman was the only one with a criminal record. One case involved an altercation with police. In addition the only way you know for sure he was getting beaten on by Martin, Is Zimmerman's story.
Quote:
Honestly, I can't believe he still has supporters.
On January 9, 2015, Zimmerman was arrested by Lake Murray police and charged with aggravated assault with a weapon after allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his ex-girlfriend.
Supporters? I don't give a flying fuck what he's done since then, and if any of you were honest, neither do any of you. This is entirely about what happened several years ago, otherwise none of this would be posted here so you guys can engage in yet another session of furious back-patting.
This. You can easily subscribe to the theory that Trayvon defended himself. If you ignore witness accounts and pesky facts.
I think he's at least somewhat mentally unstable. And he allowed himself to think that because he was found not guilty, that he is like some vigilante superhero above the law now. I wouldn't say the guy has supporters at all. There are those that believe his version of what happened on the night he shot Trayvon was pretty close to the truth (the version supported by physical evidence and eyewitnesses). Everything since then, however, really is irrelevant as to what happened, and it would surprise no one to see him in future legal trouble in some way or another.
You have to look at the situation objectively. At the time, the evidence pointed to Trayvon attacking him (likely because Zimmerman was watching him).
Zimmerman's injuries supported his account.
He can, at the same time, be an insufferable dirtbag, and a victim. He can, at the same time, have legally defended himself against an attacker, and also be a head case.
And, both he and Trayvon both may have been, let's just say, not the finest examples of humanity, where both of their actions contributed to what transpired.
You don't have to believe George Zimmerman is a great guy to believe he was attacked and legally used lethal force to defend himself.
This is what I think of the whole thing... and the jury at the time agreed after reviewing all of the evidence and witness testimony.
What injuries supported that? The Medical examiner herself said his injuries were "Insignificant"
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
Quote:
In comment 12281463 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
Honestly, I can't believe he still has supporters.
On January 9, 2015, Zimmerman was arrested by Lake Murray police and charged with aggravated assault with a weapon after allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his ex-girlfriend.
Supporters? I don't give a flying fuck what he's done since then, and if any of you were honest, neither do any of you. This is entirely about what happened several years ago, otherwise none of this would be posted here so you guys can engage in yet another session of furious back-patting.
This. You can easily subscribe to the theory that Trayvon defended himself. If you ignore witness accounts and pesky facts.
I think he's at least somewhat mentally unstable. And he allowed himself to think that because he was found not guilty, that he is like some vigilante superhero above the law now. I wouldn't say the guy has supporters at all. There are those that believe his version of what happened on the night he shot Trayvon was pretty close to the truth (the version supported by physical evidence and eyewitnesses). Everything since then, however, really is irrelevant as to what happened, and it would surprise no one to see him in future legal trouble in some way or another.
Oh... so I guess only Zimmerman had the right to defend himself that night huh? Oh wait... he wasn't the one being followed by a guy with a gun was he?
Only a fool would suggest someone should wait until the injuries were significant enough to cause unconsciousness, severe bodily injury, or death, before it is justifiable to defend oneself.
You'd be horribly wrong, too.
Only a fool would suggest someone should wait until the injuries were significant enough to cause unconsciousness, severe bodily injury, or death, before it is justifiable to defend oneself.
I guess you know more then the medical examiner then:
Dr. Valerie Rao, the medical examiner for Duval, Clay, and Nassau Counties in northern Florida, said Zimmerman’s injuries could have been the result of a single blow during a confrontation between the two.
Quote:
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
Quote:
In comment 12281485 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Quote:
In comment 12281485 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
You adding "approaching Martin" is clear speculation and conjecture on your part. The evidence supported Martin doubled back, hid from Zimmerman, then jumped out and approached him.
Regardless, even if your fictionalizing of events were true, Zimmerman's actions do not have to be justified or advisable for him to have been within his rights to defend himself.
And not you or anyone else is within their rights to attack someone you perceive or is actually following or watching you when in a public place.
A guy who Angela Corey (who's a worthless sack of shit, btw, for many other cases besides this one - look up Marissa Alexander if you don't believe me) tried to railroad, who the media tried dishonestly to brand a racist, who has received innumerable death threats since as a result.....that guy has serious anger issues now? Shocking! I don't believe it.
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
LMAO....Hey Dipshit, the MEDICAL EXAMINER stated that his injuries were most likely caused by one punch, not the "Pounding into the pavement" you keep claiming. If these were such life threatening injuries why did he wait until the next day to get examined at a clinic? Why no x-rays? Why does an actual doctor who examined the evidence claim they were extremely minor injuries?
You can sit here and try to claim this "Well if he falls just right, he might actually get injured" line of stupid, but the actual facts of the case are that his injuries were minor despite you trying to claim otherwise. Don't try to spin your claim now idiot, acknowledge that your wrong
Quote:
In comment 12281509 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12281485 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
You adding "approaching Martin" is clear speculation and conjecture on your part. The evidence supported Martin doubled back, hid from Zimmerman, then jumped out and approached him.
Regardless, even if your fictionalizing of events were true, Zimmerman's actions do not have to be justified or advisable for him to have been within his rights to defend himself.
And not you or anyone else is within their rights to attack someone you perceive or is actually following or watching you when in a public place.
Are you slow? njm stated that he approached Martin, I just asked how that would justified then
Quote:
In comment 12281509 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12281485 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
The kid was unjustly stalked and approached by this lunatic asshole. That much is clear
If that much was clear I think DOJ would have proceeded with civil rights charges.
What aspect made Zimmerman following and approaching Martin "Justified" then?
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
You're head is getting beaten in to the sidewalk, a single one of those hits can render you unconscious. At that point, you are in a life or death situation.
What is indisputable is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
Martin had zero injuries outside of the gunshot wound to his person.
When you attack someone, if that person is armed, they can justifiably shoot you. End of story.
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
So based on that logic, I take it you believe OJ is innocent correct?
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Quote:
The devil you say! I'm nonplussed! Is that the right word?
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
So based on that logic, I take it you believe OJ is innocent correct?
Since there is virtually no exculpatory evidence that should have cleared OJ....no. But invoking OJ is a pretty good sign that you don't have a whole helluva lot to use here.
Quote:
In comment 12281527 montanagiant said:
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
Quote:
shooting.
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Quote:
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
Quote:
In comment 12281460 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
shooting.
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Why do you defend this numbnuts?
Quote:
In comment 12281563 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
For the last fucking time "Stand You Ground" had nothing to do with this case.
Nothing. To. Do. With. It. Completely different scenario. Your cutesy pun only exposes the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
So, back to your argument - he "chased him right up to the end"? So, you're now positing that Zimmerman just chased Martin the entire time, and what? "Something" happened? An armed man somehow initiated a physical confrontation with an unarmed man and got his ass kicked? Does that make any sense? Unless he in fact was jumped by the unarmed man, who of course had no idea at that point that the guy he was attacked was armed.
Because I believe in the rule of law? I know, I know, crazy thing to believe in the mobocracy we're becoming, but some people actually do take it seriously.
Quote:
In comment 12281537 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12281527 montanagiant said:
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
Of course he was a lot less certain... the only person to dispute Zimmerman's claim is dead. Isn't that nice how that all ties itself together?
Quote:
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
So is it not plausible that someone with his history, is not looking for a defendable situation to be able to shoot someone? Because it sure seems to me like this guy LOOKS for trouble and reasons to be able to unload a weapon.
I'm not sure how anybody with half a brain cannot see that his continued crazy behavior sheds serious doubt on his self-defense story in the Martin case.
Unless you just like to argue..
So is it not plausible that someone with his history, is not looking for a defendable situation to be able to shoot someone? Because it sure seems to me like this guy LOOKS for trouble and reasons to be able to unload a weapon.
If all he wanted to do was shoot someone, why wait until he's in a fucking fistfight to do it? Why not just plug him right away? Also, enlighten me - when else has Zimmerman "unloaded a weapon"? I'm assuming you have some citation?
I'm not sure how anybody with half a brain cannot see that his continued crazy behavior sheds serious doubt on his self-defense story in the Martin case.
Unless you just like to argue..
Honestly I have the feeling that people that are on the side of "every yahoo should be able to carry a gun always" have to defend this particular lunatic asshole because he puts a crimp in the gun logic... lol
Quote:
In comment 12281565 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 12281563 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
Sure, in principle that is true. But is that still true if the person you "attack" is a crazy guy chasing you with a gun? It depends on who's doing the attacking and who's doing the defending.
So, your contention is that Zimmerman started a fistfight while he was carrying a pistol? Do I have that correctly?
He started some shit. I can't say exactly what it was. Shoulda just left the kid alone. But he chased him right up until it was time to stand his ground.
For the last fucking time "Stand You Ground" had nothing to do with this case.
Nothing. To. Do. With. It. Completely different scenario. Your cutesy pun only exposes the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
So, back to your argument - he "chased him right up to the end"? So, you're now positing that Zimmerman just chased Martin the entire time, and what? "Something" happened? An armed man somehow initiated a physical confrontation with an unarmed man and got his ass kicked? Does that make any sense? Unless he in fact was jumped by the unarmed man, who of course had no idea at that point that the guy he was attacked was armed.
Heh, ok Greg. I have no idea why you defend Zimmerman or even why you think it makes sense to apply a logical decision making process to this crazy person who keeps getting involved in shit, threatening people, whatever. I'm sure he's lucky to have you to take up his cause on the internet, though. I'm sure there's a good reason why this time, it wasn't his fault.
Also, here are the jury instructions that specifically reference stand your ground. I'm out. - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 12281561 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The devil you say! I'm nonplussed! Is that the right word?
Apparently she wasn't very convincing.
So based on that logic, I take it you believe OJ is innocent correct?
Since there is virtually no exculpatory evidence that should have cleared OJ....no. But invoking OJ is a pretty good sign that you don't have a whole helluva lot to use here.
Yeah I guess those gloves not fitting was a fantasy
LOL
Quote:
In comment 12281460 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
shooting.
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Check out Bernie Goetz. Similar situation IF GZ was trying to instigate a 'justified' shooting. Goetz was found innocent but he was tried for murder. If he had a past like GZ and it was introduced in court what would have happened?
During the defense's cross examination of Rao, Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara got Rao to concede that his client's injuries could have been caused by more than three impacts. She also indicated that abrasions on Martin's knuckles were consistent with him striking someone.
If is on top of me beating me, and/or banging my head into concrete, I'm not waiting for him to continue to beat me if I can do something about it. If you agree that Martin attacked Zimmerman, if you agree that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, then you have to acknowledge that Zimmerman legally shot Martin. Unless you are a complete moron. Doesn't mean he's a great guy... just means he shot in self-defense as allowable under the law.
And there's also this...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesses/story?id=19517236
Two witnesses called by the prosecution today described George Zimmerman as being on the losing end of a fight with Trayvon Martin in the moments before Zimmerman shot the Florida teenager.
However, an EMT who was on the scene immediately following the shooting testified that she treated Zimmerman for five minutes before releasing him into police care.
Zimmerman, 29, is facing second degree murder charges for shooting and killing Martin on Feb. 26, 2012. He maintains he shot Martin, 17, in self defense after his head was slammed several times against a concrete sidewalk.
John Good told the jury today that he yelled "stop" at both men shortly after realizing that what he at first assumed to be a dog attack was actually two men grappling on the ground.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
"I said cut it out. I'm calling 911 because it was getting serious," said Good.
Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman.
"The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red," Good said referring to the men's clothing.
At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had "lighter skin color."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
"The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help,'" he said.
George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
Under cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman "MMA style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
"The person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom?"asked Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara.
"Correct," said Good
Good testified that he did not see Martin banging Zimmerman's head on the concrete.
His account was accompanied by a recording of Good's 911 call to police in which he is heard telling the dispatcher that he heard a gunshot.
"I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out there. Holy sh**. .. There's a black guy down and he's been shot. It looks like he is dead," Good said.
Jonathan Manalo, who also lived near the shooting scene, testified today that Zimmerman told him just moments after Martin was killed to call his wife and say "Just tell her I shot someone."
Manalo did not see the confrontation between Zimmerman and the unarmed teenager, but walked outside of his home with a flashlight moments after hearing a gunshot.
He said Zimmerman looked like he had "got his butt beat," but was "speaking clearly."
Manalo took photos of Zimmerman's bloody nose, the back of his bloody head, Martin's body lying face down in the grass and a flashlight on the ground.
He says Zimmerman told him as he approached, "This guy was beating me up. I was defending myself and I shot him."
Stacy Livingston, an EMT who arrived on the scene, said she treated Zimmerman -- who was complaining of dizziness -- for five minutes before releasing him into police custody.
In addition, Police Officer Tim Smith told the court he took Zimmerman into custody on the night of the shooting and that the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and had bits of grass on it, and the back of his pants appeared wet. It had been raining that night and the ground was wet.
Again, you don't have to wait until injuries are "life-threatening" before using deadly force if you are being attacked. Even the notion of this is laughably stupid.
So you can cherry-pick one comment made by the medical examiner who was dealing in "maybe's" and "could have's" all you want... but the jury considered the totality of the evidence, and most fair-minded people do the same. At least 3 blows, lmao.
Again, anyone who says Zimmerman "approached" Martin is being speculative, btw, and really is immaterial as to the legality of using lethal force.
I think the better way to put it is that apparently DOJ thinks what we KNOW about his following and approaching Martin did not rise to the level of a civil rights violation.
Which is an extremely hard case to prove with the best of evidence
Perhaps. But it also contradicts the absolute certitude on the part of some people. Let's be blunt. If DOJ had any reasonable shot at a conviction Holder would have brought the case. The fact that charges were not pressed indicate that he was a lot less certain as to what happened than a lot of people on this thread.
Of course he was a lot less certain... the only person to dispute Zimmerman's claim is dead. Isn't that nice how that all ties itself together?
Then perhaps the way to leave this is that this is one case where we wished there was a surveillance camera. And without that we really don't know what happened in those final minutes after the 911 call Zimmerman made.
Quote:
In comment 12281568 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 12281460 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
shooting.
Greg seriously? Not understand why you are defending him, is he a friend or something? LOL
Do you not see that this guy historically inserts himself into situations that he shouldn't be in, over and over and over and over again? Doesn't raise a red flag to you? At all?
Inserts himself in situations.....where is that in the Florida criminal code? If you can find it for me, I'll give you a round of applause.
Check out Bernie Goetz. Similar situation IF GZ was trying to instigate a 'justified' shooting. Goetz was found innocent but he was tried for murder. If he had a past like GZ and it was introduced in court what would have happened?
Well you have to take into account different state laws. Goetz never would have been tried in Florida
Whoops!
[quote]That matched the assessment of legal experts who earlier Monday were describing the verdict on Saturday as the result of successful, garden-variety self-defense arguments that could sway a jury in any state.
Though these observers said Florida's expanded self-defense law, which says citizens can "stand their ground" rather than retreat in the face of a deadly threat has emboldened citizens to take unnecessary risks and led to an increase in homicides, they detected little impact on the Zimmerman case.
[quote]
Link - ( New Window )