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Biggest NYG Offseason Surprise to Me

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 12:50 pm
The Giants did not sign a CB in free agency.

The Giants did not draft a CB.

The Giants did not sign a rookie free agent CB.

The only CB added since the end of the year was Trevin Wade (ex-Browns, ex-Saints, ex-Lions), who is a longshot at best.

Either the Giants are happier with guys like Chykie Brown, Mike Harris, Chandler Fenner, and Jayron Hosley than we realize, or there was not sufficient opportunity to address the position, or a combination of both.
Looking at the list...  
Chris in Philly : 5/12/2015 12:52 pm : link
of CB's that were available, I'd say it was a combination of both. I am surprised they didn't draft one though. I'd be happy with drafting one every single year. You can never have enough of them...
yeah - I also think Safety  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 12:53 pm : link
was an even bigger concern
and as I've been reminded in the past few weeks  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 12:54 pm : link
off season is not over yet
Was it a mutual decision not to resign Thurmond?  
RC02XX : 5/12/2015 12:56 pm : link
I would have thought that he would have wanted another shot at raising his stock on a one year deal.
RE: Was it a mutual decision not to resign Thurmond?  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 12:57 pm : link
In comment 12283079 RC02XX said:
Quote:
I would have thought that he would have wanted another shot at raising his stock on a one year deal.


Thurmond signed with another team
RC02XX  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 12:57 pm : link
Great question. The beat reporters all seemed to know early on (before FA started) that he would not be back. Not sure if it was mutual or not.
I think he signed with the  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 12:57 pm : link
Eagles
And the market...  
Chris in Philly : 5/12/2015 12:58 pm : link
for the position is just absurd. All the more reason to draft them regularly. Byron Maxwell, a nice corner but no better than the 4th or 5th best one to reach FA, got 6 years for $63M ($25M guaranteed). That's crazy talk...
agree with Chris  
JonC : 5/12/2015 12:58 pm : link
UFA options were few and very pricey, not to mention Prince sitting there as a starter waiting on an extension. They reached out to Buster Skrine and another similar UFA who name escapes me, and found them too pricey as well.

Draft was weak there, they went with Collins instead of a dual prospect like Rowe. It's too bad the Jones kid got hot during scouting, he was a prospect to watch in the 3-4 range.
Maxwell's contract  
JonC : 5/12/2015 12:59 pm : link
also got Prince chirping on social media ...

DRC and Prince  
area junc : 5/12/2015 12:59 pm : link
have a chance to be one of the best tandems in the league in Spags scheme.
i thought mike harris showed something at nickel for coming in midseason on a poorly coached D. will be keeping my eye on him.
Im worried about the depth right now  
gmen9892 : 5/12/2015 12:59 pm : link
But there is still time to sign a vet or two, especially after June 1st. Hoping they give a good look at Arrington from the Pats.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 12:59 pm : link
interesting that they still moved Bennett Jackson to safety.
And S Jeremy  
Big Blue '56 : 5/12/2015 1:00 pm : link
Miles, still waits I nelieve
RE: I think he signed with the  
Chris in Philly : 5/12/2015 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12283086 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Eagles


Correct.
NYG played the Miles market correctly  
JonC : 5/12/2015 1:01 pm : link
Watch him sign late for $1M (not necessarily with NYG).
boy if you look at the available free agent list  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 1:04 pm : link
it's pretty dismal
I  
AcidTest : 5/12/2015 1:07 pm : link
think it's a combination of both. But CB is just another position, along with OL, WR, and TE, where our depth is mostly JAGs. I understand that no team can have quality depth at every position, but we seem to have little at many positions. As has been noted, the FO has done a poor job of finding good depth from day three draft picks.
June 1st or June 2nd  
Headhunter : 5/12/2015 1:08 pm : link
contract terminations might shake someone unexpected free
RE: RC02XX  
RC02XX : 5/12/2015 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12283083 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Great question. The beat reporters all seemed to know early on (before FA started) that he would not be back. Not sure if it was mutual or not.


The fact that they knew early on is perplexing. He obviously signed with the Giants last season to showcase his abilities for a big payoff. Then after he barely plays the entire season, he decides to move to another team for not much more money than he made last season.

Either the Giants were not happy with him being hurt (seems unlikely that they wouldn't want to resign him for that reason) or didn't think he fit the new system (not sure how different last years defense and this years defense will be).

Or did Thurmond not want to resign with the Giants because he was unhappy about being IR'ed?
Here's the list of unsigned CBs  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 1:11 pm : link
Ike Taylor
Kyle Arrington
Jarrett Bush
Christopher Owens
Javier Arenas
Cassius Vaughn
Aaron Ross
Adrian Davis
Travis Howard
Danny Gorrer
R.J. Stanford
T.J. Heath
Antoine Cason
Kenny Okoro
Johsua Thomas
Ross Weaver
Josh Victorian
Jansen Watson
Lowell Rose
Cameron Fuller
Varmah Sonie
Jordan Mabin
Vernon Kearney
Jocquel Skinner
Shaquille Richardson
Greg Henderson
Jonte Green
Rashad Carmichael
RC02XX  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 1:12 pm : link
He had to be IRed...it was serious enough of an injury to do that.

He either didn't want to be here, or they made it known they didn't want him back (maybe because he's been injury-prone).

But the beat writers knew early....they all said he wouldn't be back. And you are right...his deal with the Eagles wasn't that good.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 1:13 pm : link
I just find it odd that even after they didn't draft one, they didn't sign a UDFA CB.

Guys like LaCosse and Tye (who was on his way to visit the Chiefs next) said they came to the Giants because they didn't draft a TE or sign one in FA.

Same story at CB. This had to be an attractive team for an undrafted CB.
Their starters are excellent  
Chris684 : 5/12/2015 1:20 pm : link
and have 2 capable backups in McBride and Brown.

I can't say I know much about Mike Harris. This is the last training camp Hosley has to prove something.

Knowing that you never really have enough depth in the salary cap era, I would say this position has standard or acceptable depth considering...

As for Prince's future, that is something to worry about next offseason.
I heard that Giants wanted Thurmond back but he decided to  
Four Aces : 5/12/2015 1:21 pm : link
reunite with Chip Kelly, his coach at Oregon.

I think based on what was out there in FA and the way the draft played out, the Giants felt better about what they had on the current roster.

Trumaine McBride filled in admirably as a starter before and can play on the outside if needed. Mike Harris has played in the slot this past season. And Chykie Brown also played significant minutes last yr as well due to injury. So the Giants have some guys who have played well in actual games. That's good depth.

The wildcard to me is Chandler Fenner, I think they like this kid. They may view him as a potential starter down the line and is the youngest of the current group.
Chris  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 1:22 pm : link
with all due respect - if either Prince or DRC goes down -- we are screwed
Maybe the Giants have a target for post June 1 cuts  
Ivan15 : 5/12/2015 1:25 pm : link
Some overpaid and underperforming CB who would fit in as backup.
We did sign Josh Gordy...  
Mooch82 : 5/12/2015 1:29 pm : link
Not exactly a big splash, but should be solid enough as a #4 or 5 CB who can also play FS in a pinch.
I was surprised that they showed no interest  
Andy in Boston : 5/12/2015 1:33 pm : link
in resigning Walter Thurmond.
I was thinking about this, but with the Patriots  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2015 1:34 pm : link
after they let go Arrington.

The Patriots let go Revis, Browner, and Arrington, and only drafted a 7th round CB (they drafted a 2nd round safety), but one CB.

Puzzling, more so than the Giants transactions at the position.
Four Aces  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 1:39 pm : link
He could have signed with Chip Kelly in 2014. He only got a 1-year deal from the Giants.
Regarding June 1 cuts...that doesn't exist  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 5/12/2015 1:43 pm : link
anymore, I believe. In fact, i think today has replaced the June 1 date for still unsigned FAs.
RE: Regarding June 1 cuts...that doesn't exist  
Mooch82 : 5/12/2015 1:46 pm : link
In comment 12283179 That’s Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
anymore, I believe. In fact, i think today has replaced the June 1 date for still unsigned FAs.


It still exists, as there are guys that count much less against a team's cap if they are cut on June 1st or later. David Baas last year was an example of that for us...it was announced earlier but he wasn't technically a free agent and we didn't technically get the cap savings from cutting him until June 1st.
The only thing to take away from it  
Chris684 : 5/12/2015 1:46 pm : link
is that they feel reasonably comfortable with the position.

They are likely very confident in Prince, DRC, Brown and McBride.

They probably like the competition between Harris, Fenner, and Hosley.

The draft probably didnt provide an opportunity for value according to their board.

Free agency money was out of hand, and here we are.
Spags acknowledged it was an issue  
UberAlias : 5/12/2015 1:47 pm : link
I would be surprised if they are done with the position. I would not be surprised if they made a minor trade or some kind of move to get someone else in here at some point.
Didn't the Pats lose (or cut) their top 4 corners  
ZogZerg : 5/12/2015 1:48 pm : link
from last year?

We aren't the only team that needs help at CB.
The dearth of new CBs on the roster is peculiar  
81_Great_Dane : 5/12/2015 1:55 pm : link
but in a salary cap world, they may have looked at what it would cost to add someone, decided the market is overvalued, and chosen to stand pat and wait for some bottom-of-the-roster type CBs to become available later on at a lower price.

They have a bunch of young DBs on the roster. Young, however, isn't a synonym for good.
RE: Four Aces  
Four Aces : 5/12/2015 1:57 pm : link
In comment 12283174 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He could have signed with Chip Kelly in 2014. He only got a 1-year deal from the Giants.


Agreed, but the cap situation for each team is different from yr to yr, and as well as, team perceived needs. I don't know if the Eagles were willing to offer the 3.5 mil the Giants gave Thurmond last yr.

In addition, this yr the Eagles, after jettisoning much of their high cap players, can offer more and have placed a higher priority this yr on their secondary, i.e. additions of Byron Maxwell and Thurmond.
RE: Regarding June 1 cuts...that doesn't exist  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 1:59 pm : link
In comment 12283179 That’s Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
anymore, I believe. In fact, i think today has replaced the June 1 date for still unsigned FAs.


TGJ - I think you may be confusing the cut day for cap purposes and the commencement of the signing day when a signing doesn't effect the compensation formulas.
Thurmond is a fool  
SHO'NUFF : 5/12/2015 2:09 pm : link
Spags would've turned him All-Pro.
Probably a little of both. And they are betting on Prince and DRC  
Victor in CT : 5/12/2015 2:27 pm : link
to stay healthy. I don't think they missed out on anything special in UFA land, and no CB went in the 4th round until the 21st and 22nd picks, so it seems it would have been a reach at the 9th pick had they kept it. THat and they prioritized Safety over CB
Thurmond  
SLIM_ : 5/12/2015 2:41 pm : link
Was definitely going to take a cut and pay to stay here as career wise he has been pretty unreliable in regards to health. From what I understand, they wanted him back at the right price.

I think he did get paid a little less than last year but it is a little easier to take with a new team than existing in Thurmonds case as he really didn't plant any roots here.

Why didn't he sign there last year? Our corners were in worse shape going into free agency. He was signed before DRC so maybe they had promised him or implied that he would be a starting corner and then was relegated to nickel back for the Giants. The Eagles are in worse shape at corner than the Giants are this year.


RE: The only thing to take away from it  
OC2.0 : 5/12/2015 3:23 pm : link
In comment 12283186 Chris684 said:
Quote:
is that they feel reasonably comfortable with the position.

They are likely very confident in Prince, DRC, Brown and McBride.

They probably like the competition between Harris, Fenner, and Hosley.

The draft probably didnt provide an opportunity for value according to their board.

Free agency money was out of hand, and here we are.


"Confidence" is 1 injury from swirling the bowl.
I hope the waiver wire....  
BillKo : 5/12/2015 4:17 pm : link
in training camp is our friend, for either a veteran safety or promising corner.
I don't pretend to know the Giants' thoughts.  
Mr. Bungle : 5/12/2015 5:51 pm : link
But I wasn't impressed by what I saw in Thurmond's limited action last year before he got hurt.
just signed DRC to a fairly  
bc4life : 5/12/2015 6:12 pm : link
big contract, and Prince is on deck. They were comfortable with McBride in the rotation. Brown played fairly well. That's 4. They probably think highly of Fenner. Giants have been paying a lot of attention to what the Seahawks do.

They have a few safeties who can double as corners, as well. Unlike their LB crew - as other posters have pointed out on other threads - Giants have a pretty good eye for CB talent.
Thurmond  
bc4life : 5/12/2015 6:15 pm : link
wanted to be in Philly. He said as much after he signed his latest deal. I don't mind him going to Philly - all he brought here was a rep as a great slot corner and handed the Giants FO a $3 million dollar check for a meal the Giants never got to eat.
Eric  
DavidinBMNY : 5/12/2015 6:49 pm : link
Agreed. Post Draft CB/UDFA CB seems weakest spot on the roster.

That said, a lot of guys filled in last year. Thurmond, Mcbride, prince all on IR. DRC was in and out of games. Maybe they like what they saw and think the talent with new coaching is good enough.
RE: I don't pretend to know the Giants' thoughts.  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 7:13 pm : link
In comment 12283720 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
But I wasn't impressed by what I saw in Thurmond's limited action last year before he got hurt.


Bungle - we must not have been watching the same games -- because Thurmond looked awesome out there until he got hurt
RE: Eric  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/12/2015 7:15 pm : link
In comment 12283770 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Agreed. Post Draft CB/UDFA CB seems weakest spot on the roster.

That said, a lot of guys filled in last year. Thurmond, Mcbride, prince all on IR. DRC was in and out of games. Maybe they like what they saw and think the talent with new coaching is good enough.


David - I don't think that's it exactly -- they didn't like the market for CBs -- or the draft -- and they probably felt the in house CBs were better alternatives than any UDFA's they could bring in
Hosely is back for 2015  
aquidneck : 5/13/2015 1:29 am : link
Gotta think it was injuries to other players that kept him a Giant in 2014. Don't remember him making an impact on games one way or another.

Guy had a little spark as a rookie, but that was a while ago now.

But he's still on the team. Wonder if he has a legitimate chance to make roster once again. Giants must think so or they wouldn't have brought him back.

Wouldn't it be nice to get an out of left field contribution from a guy fans have written off like Hosley, Robinson or Mosley this year?
Gidie that makes sense  
DavidinBMNY : 5/13/2015 7:29 am : link
Let's hope these guys can be servicable. Maybe the safeties although inexperienced will be an upgrade.
I still think there is at least one or 2 CBs  
Matt M. : 5/13/2015 8:51 am : link
from the final roster that aren't in place yet. There are still a ton of unsigned CBs and there are always the June cuts. The giants are likely to add at least 1 vet. At least if prince and DRC stay healthy, we have one of the better tandems in the league. Prince, in my opinion, is a vastly underrated all around CB.
That said  
Matt M. : 5/13/2015 8:55 am : link
Is it possible this is also the result of a misguided overconfidence in Spags' impact on the pass rush? I hope they aren't relying on his aggressive style simply hiding issues in the secondary, because he doesn't have the horses up front that he had the last time around. I am not so sold on him being significantly better than Fewell. I think the D will be improved, but not necessarily into the top half. They really can't get much worse.

We have little to no depth at CB and S, which is scary. And, we still are very much unsettled at LB.
alot has to do with scheme  
msh : 5/13/2015 3:24 pm : link
fewell liked the contain approach but it didnt work
whereas spags will attack with blitz and cover his formations so the corners need to cover for less time than they did under fewell,the secondry was pretty solid last year if they hadnt had the injuries the whole perception on the secondry would have been vastly different

they got collins and red shirted berhe to start this year knowing rolle was going,if taylor can stay healthy they have a shot to be stronger there even with whats on the roster,still think they need another vet thou

of the free agents arrington could be 1 of the few in a poor group worth bringing in, could play that 3rd safety role spags used last time he was here with deon grant
Oh well.  
David B. : 5/13/2015 5:48 pm : link
There's always the CFL.
aquidneck  
Klaatu : 5/13/2015 6:01 pm : link
The Giants didn't bring Hosley back. They didn't have to...he's still playing on his rookie deal.
There has been interesting analysis performed on BBI...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/13/2015 6:15 pm : link
On the one hand, we criticize Fewell for communication and inability to adjust.

On the other hand, we criticize our in house talent at DB and expect upgrades.

I understand what Eric is saying and agree, it is a surprise with what little has been done with the CB position.

I agree with the analysis that suggests the Giants didn't feel there was enough value through FA or the draft when opportunity came their way to justify an upgrade.

I don't agree with some of the analysis that our current players suck because they didn't do well under Fewell and his system. If you disagree with that, think for a minute why I might feel that way.
They rolled the dice on an injury prone corner with a good rep  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/13/2015 6:24 pm : link
and he immediately got injured.

To me, it's not surprising that they weren't going to extend themselves just to keep him.
javier arenas might be one of those players  
idiotsavant : 5/14/2015 7:57 am : link
who is fairly middling as a nickel corner, and yet might be a slightly better player as a safety. has racked some NFL sacks and returns punts and kicks. for small money. has the A.A.

possibly over looked as a safety due to 'is short'
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