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BBI Update: Victor Cruz Begins Running Routes

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2015 11:55 pm
Front page update that includes a few tweets as well and some good articles that Defenderdawg found.
Victor Cruz Begins Running Routes - ( New Window )
Excellent news  
montanagiant : 5/13/2015 1:26 am : link
He is ahead of schedule is he not?
Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzz  
Bluesbreaker : 5/13/2015 7:59 am : link
Working hard we love ya come back strong !!!!!
Victor, remember,  
Doomster : 5/13/2015 8:01 am : link
discretion is the better part of valor....don't rush it...
As stated on another thread and ad infinitum, ad nauseum on  
Big Blue '56 : 5/13/2015 8:22 am : link
here since the surgery:

Quote:


I've heard nothing else beyond a straight up repair

Big Blue '56 : 8:19 am : link : reply

and although there are always exceptions, I will continue to expect him at 100% recovery..

Many here could have saved themselves tons of angst and negative projections if they simply googled the procedure for straight up repair and the USUAL results to be expected..

But hey..

Big Blue '56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/13/2015 8:24 am : link
Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.
RE: Big Blue '56  
Big Blue '56 : 5/13/2015 8:27 am : link
In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.


Physically, he should be able to..And yes, I agree, if he loses that he could become JAG..
RE: RE: Big Blue '56  
Strip-Sack : 5/13/2015 8:58 am : link
In comment 12284380 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.



Physically, he should be able to..And yes, I agree, if he loses that he could become JAG..


That was always the concern...running routes and cutting are great but he needs to run routes and cut like Victor Cruz runs routes and cuts. JAG would still be dangerous in this offense with OBJ (and a running game of course) but this offense with OBJ and Cruz can be very special.
Cruz  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/13/2015 9:09 am : link
is my favorite player. Just an easy guy to root for.
1 of the advantanges  
Andy in Boston : 5/13/2015 9:10 am : link
I guess if there is one about getting injured, is that at least he was hurt early in the year last year....if it was mid or late season, he'd never be ready for the start of 2015. This is really good news!
Yup,  
Curtis in VA : 5/13/2015 9:19 am : link
thats what I worry about too. I'm sure he can run in a straight line and run routes, but when the pads go on and he has to use that quickness, what will happen to his knee.

Remember what made Steve Smith so good? It wasn't just running routes...it was running them like this.



He still played for a bit afterwards, but was a shell of his former self.

Granted, they are different injuries to the knee. But that doesn't mean they can't have the same type of negative impact afterwards.

Rooting hard for the guy. How can you not? But I really don't feel good about his chances of returning to form, realistically.
RE: Big Blue '56  
dep026 : 5/13/2015 9:20 am : link
In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.


The problem that people are forgetting that he was closer to a JAG than he was a 2011-2012 Victor Cruz. I hope like hell he recovers and gets back to pro bowl form, but realistically we should hope for a guy who catches a bunch of passes first down and becomes an outlet for Eli.

Its more likely that Randle has a better yaer than Cruz, IMO.
RE: RE: Big Blue '56  
Strip-Sack : 5/13/2015 9:40 am : link
In comment 12284466 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.



The problem that people are forgetting that he was closer to a JAG than he was a 2011-2012 Victor Cruz. I hope like hell he recovers and gets back to pro bowl form, but realistically we should hope for a guy who catches a bunch of passes first down and becomes an outlet for Eli.

Its more likely that Randle has a better yaer than Cruz, IMO.


I don't agree with this. He was effectively the only receiver on the 2013 team and to judge him based on that complete offensive abomination isn't worth doing as it was quite possibly the worst display of offensive football since the Bucs first season in existence. The beginning of 2014 can't be counted as there was no OBJ so to say he was JAG since 2011-2012 does not paint the whole picture to say the least.
RE: Victor, remember,  
Randy in CT : 5/13/2015 9:44 am : link
In comment 12284354 Doomster said:
Quote:
discretion is the better part of valor....don't rush it...
You tell 'im!!! He has no idea what he's doing like you do!!!!
RE: RE: RE: Big Blue '56  
dep026 : 5/13/2015 9:53 am : link
In comment 12284513 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
In comment 12284466 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.



The problem that people are forgetting that he was closer to a JAG than he was a 2011-2012 Victor Cruz. I hope like hell he recovers and gets back to pro bowl form, but realistically we should hope for a guy who catches a bunch of passes first down and becomes an outlet for Eli.

Its more likely that Randle has a better yaer than Cruz, IMO.



I don't agree with this. He was effectively the only receiver on the 2013 team and to judge him based on that complete offensive abomination isn't worth doing as it was quite possibly the worst display of offensive football since the Bucs first season in existence. The beginning of 2014 can't be counted as there was no OBJ so to say he was JAG since 2011-2012 does not paint the whole picture to say the least.


A number 1 WR performs no matter the situation. In 2013 he had many games where he had 1-1 coverage and couldnt do anything. In 2014, he dropped 2-3 passes in the 4th quarter against Arizona that helped us lose the game.

Again, this is an anti-Cruz rant. But one has to believe that he is closer to a #3 at this point than a number 1.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Big Blue '56  
Strip-Sack : 5/13/2015 10:11 am : link
In comment 12284538 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12284513 Strip-Sack said:


Quote:


In comment 12284466 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.



The problem that people are forgetting that he was closer to a JAG than he was a 2011-2012 Victor Cruz. I hope like hell he recovers and gets back to pro bowl form, but realistically we should hope for a guy who catches a bunch of passes first down and becomes an outlet for Eli.

Its more likely that Randle has a better yaer than Cruz, IMO.



I don't agree with this. He was effectively the only receiver on the 2013 team and to judge him based on that complete offensive abomination isn't worth doing as it was quite possibly the worst display of offensive football since the Bucs first season in existence. The beginning of 2014 can't be counted as there was no OBJ so to say he was JAG since 2011-2012 does not paint the whole picture to say the least.



A number 1 WR performs no matter the situation. In 2013 he had many games where he had 1-1 coverage and couldnt do anything. In 2014, he dropped 2-3 passes in the 4th quarter against Arizona that helped us lose the game.

Again, this is an anti-Cruz rant. But one has to believe that he is closer to a #3 at this point than a number 1.


I never thought Cruz was a #1 WR to begin with, he's an incredibly explosive #2 WR, Nicks was the #1 WR on that team but, to be fair, it was probably a 1A and 1B situation. Regardless, to say a #1 WR should perform in any situation is just wrong...Jerry Rice couldn't do much on that team, c'mon, it was a total team disaster especially on the offensive side...OL was a complete, constantly revolving joke, Eli was totally off his game, there was absolutely NO running game and, as I stated, Cruz was basically the only WR option. As for the drops, he's always had that problem on and off...as most WR's do occasionally. I certainly wouldn't label him closer to #3 for those stated reasons.
When the knee is a 100%  
#10* : 5/13/2015 10:18 am : link
I would like to see him run the 40. It would be interesting to compare his pre-draft and post-injury times.
Many number 1s  
dep026 : 5/13/2015 10:19 am : link
have had worst situations and performed. Top WRs need to win 1 on 1 battles. I just dont know if Cruz is that guy anymore.
Fingers crossed for the guy  
BeerFridge : 5/13/2015 10:33 am : link
He's busting his ass. Hope he can return to even 90% of what he was.
Got to disagree on him coming back at 90%  
Headhunter : 5/13/2015 10:35 am : link
he would just be a JAG at 90%
RE: Many number 1s  
Strip-Sack : 5/13/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12284586 dep026 said:
Quote:
have had worst situations and performed. Top WRs need to win 1 on 1 battles. I just dont know if Cruz is that guy anymore.


I think you're selling the dysfunction of that 2013 team way too short if you think there's been a lot "worse" and I would definitely argue with "many"...maybe some all time greats would, who knows but I'd like to see the team that had as many "broken" parts as that particular offense did. Anyway, I don't disagree that he's probably not going to be "prime 2011 Cruz" anymore due to age, defensive adjustments, injury (obviously) etc...just don't see it as drastic as you suggest.
#10*  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/13/2015 10:46 am : link
that's not the issue. Cruz isn't a speedster. A better test would be the 3-cone.
Cruz  
JerseyCityJoe : 5/13/2015 11:12 am : link
One of his most important traits is that he is a very clever and sly receiver. That has not changed.
I'm assuming JAG = Just another guy  
Mike in Long Beach : 5/13/2015 11:25 am : link
But is that really an acronym we're expected to know? lol
RE: Big Blue '56  
AcidTest : 5/13/2015 11:31 am : link
In comment 12284376 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Prince Amukamara asked him if he will get that "quick twitch" back that makes him so difficult to cover. That's what I worry about. Cruz's game, in my opinion, is about his unique quickness. If he loses that, he becomes just a guy.


That's what I'm afraid of as well. We'll see. He's made remarkable progress, but any loss of the quickness that makes him so shifty could turn him into a very ordinary receiver.
Im not sure if the "quick twitch" aspect  
gmen9892 : 5/13/2015 12:01 pm : link
Will be back next year, but I am hoping he shows enough to make a significant impact in the offense. Whatever percentage that is, I do not know.

And if he doesnt get back the "twitch" that he once had next season, you cant totally count him out on getting it back the following year and further removed from the injury. We wont know for sure if he can totally recover from the injury until the 2016-'17 season IMO.
Mike in Long Beach  
fkap : 5/13/2015 12:28 pm : link
hey, if I know what JAG stands for, any f'ing moron should know it.
btw, the f stands for, well, that thing that guys do to women while they're making love to us.
RE: #10*  
I Love Clams Casino : 5/13/2015 12:43 pm : link
In comment 12284627 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
that's not the issue. Cruz isn't a speedster. A better test would be the 3-cone.


Essentially, they way he used his body became his downfall.

Look at the injury itself. The force he used to get in the air to catch that ball must have been tremendous
Casino  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/13/2015 12:50 pm : link
I've thought about that too.

Interestingly, Coughlin said the other day Cruz was back to jumping up on those high boxes again (I don't know if you've seen that video of his incredible vertical leap on top of boxes/steps).
One minor disagreement here  
Joey in VA : 5/13/2015 12:51 pm : link
One of the things that Cruz does as well any WR we've had is set up his routes. Yes that's a quickness thing, but Hakeem Nicks was not every explosively quick or fast but he was able to set up his defenders to gain separation. Cruz does that and very well. If he loses some quickness of course he'll be diminished in that area but his ability to create space will still be there. He won't be going 99 yards and leaving people in the dust anymore if that happens, but he can absolutely be a thorn for anyone with his route running ability.
Cruz doesn't have to threaten defenses deep anymore  
chris r : 5/13/2015 12:53 pm : link
with Beckham.

He can be a PITA underneath guy like Welker and still be very valuable.
Worst Offense since the 1976 Bucs? Nahhhhhh.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/13/2015 2:01 pm : link
Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
He was effectively the only receiver on the 2013 team and to judge him based on that complete offensive abomination isn't worth doing as it was quite possibly the worst display of offensive football since the Bucs first season in existence.
I'll go with the 1992 Seahawks. The 2013 Giants were inept, but I doubt they would make a serious list of the 50 worst offenses since 1976.
Cruz without his "quick twitch" is basically Jernigan  
PatersonPlank : 5/13/2015 2:15 pm : link
.
RE: Worst Offense since the 1976 Bucs? Nahhhhhh.  
Strip-Sack : 5/13/2015 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12285052 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Strip-Sack said:


Quote:


He was effectively the only receiver on the 2013 team and to judge him based on that complete offensive abomination isn't worth doing as it was quite possibly the worst display of offensive football since the Bucs first season in existence.

I'll go with the 1992 Seahawks. The 2013 Giants were inept, but I doubt they would make a serious list of the 50 worst offenses since 1976.


Well, I was exaggerating to make a point but I'd wager they were pretty close to that list. It would be interesting to compare but stats in this case would be very misleading with different eras. I would love to know how many 3 and outs they had that year as thats got to be up there.
RE: Cruz without his  
chris r : 5/13/2015 2:27 pm : link
In comment 12285077 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
.


So wrong. Jernigan has quick twitch. Cruz is much bigger and a much better route runner.
The flood of negativity on the Cruz prognosis has confused me  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/13/2015 5:29 pm : link
since the day he got hurt.

This is nothing like Steve Smith's catastrophic injury, but the comparison and level of worry seems to follow just the same every time it's discussed.

They had to put Steve Smith's knee back together like the Operation board game.
it's not that long till OTAS than at least there will begin to be  
plato : 5/13/2015 6:34 pm : link
empiric data and all the speculation can be replaced by real time and real life observations.
Best way to discuss Cruz isn't to label him a #1...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/13/2015 6:38 pm : link
and debate whether he's a true #1. We should think about what kind of receiver he truly was and question whether or not he will be that receiver again.

Pre-injury, we saw that Cruz is the kind of receiver that can be limited in a game with the right defenders/scheme. He was the kind of guy that was very dangerous if left one-on-one. He didn't necessarily outrun defenders in space, but could create separation and had enough speed that defenders rarely could catch him from behind. His football IQ must have been pretty high, as he had a good understanding of the complex Gilbride passing tree and could find spots in zone coverage regularly.

When schemed for he was the kind of guy that could be covered tightly and would still get catches, but the YAC could be limited and the number of catches would go down. Pre-injury Cruz had good hands but was susceptible in spots to drops, whether due to lapses in concentration or some other function.

Now, if that's what we had before the injury what can we expect after it?

There shouldn't be any trouble with his eventual recovery of his speed beyond the fact that he will be 29 this year, meaning if he can get separation he should still be hard enough to catch from behind.

He may very well have more drops until he gains 100% confidence in his knee.

He should still be able to read defenses and make good decisions to get open.

His ability to create separation then is what is at stake here. This depends on not only his lateral quickness (evidenced by 3-cone) but also his ability to sell the route to a defender.

There is no reason to think that he won't be able to sell the route. The doc (BB'56) thinks he won't lose any quickness because of the injury.

Cruz is clearly not going to be the primary receiving threat on this offense. I think it's trouble for defenses who cheat too much to cover OBJ, because Cruz should be able to beat other CB's 1 on 1.

Now, perhaps on another thread we can have a debate about whether VC is a legit #1 receiver or not.
RE: Best way to discuss Cruz isn't to label him a #1...  
Four Aces : 5/13/2015 6:48 pm : link
In comment 12285488 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
and debate whether he's a true #1. We should think about what kind of receiver he truly was and question whether or not he will be that receiver again.

Pre-injury, we saw that Cruz is the kind of receiver that can be limited in a game with the right defenders/scheme. He was the kind of guy that was very dangerous if left one-on-one. He didn't necessarily outrun defenders in space, but could create separation and had enough speed that defenders rarely could catch him from behind. His football IQ must have been pretty high, as he had a good understanding of the complex Gilbride passing tree and could find spots in zone coverage regularly.

When schemed for he was the kind of guy that could be covered tightly and would still get catches, but the YAC could be limited and the number of catches would go down. Pre-injury Cruz had good hands but was susceptible in spots to drops, whether due to lapses in concentration or some other function.

Now, if that's what we had before the injury what can we expect after it?

There shouldn't be any trouble with his eventual recovery of his speed beyond the fact that he will be 29 this year, meaning if he can get separation he should still be hard enough to catch from behind.

He may very well have more drops until he gains 100% confidence in his knee.

He should still be able to read defenses and make good decisions to get open.

His ability to create separation then is what is at stake here. This depends on not only his lateral quickness (evidenced by 3-cone) but also his ability to sell the route to a defender.

There is no reason to think that he won't be able to sell the route. The doc (BB'56) thinks he won't lose any quickness because of the injury.

Cruz is clearly not going to be the primary receiving threat on this offense. I think it's trouble for defenses who cheat too much to cover OBJ, because Cruz should be able to beat other CB's 1 on 1.

Now, perhaps on another thread we can have a debate about whether VC is a legit #1 receiver or not.


Good post
#1 #2  
djm : 5/13/2015 9:36 pm : link
Who cares all I know is when the offense is functional Cruz is a fucking weopon. I think Cruz can have a special impact again but things have to fall into place. He's done it before he can do it again.
He has 2 months to get the leg into shape  
SGMen : 5/13/2015 11:27 pm : link
Until he puts the pads on and gets hit we won't know too much. However, this does look like good news to me overall.

If he is the 80-1000-5 slot guy to go with Randle at 75-1100 and OBJ at 120-1800-15 (yup...) our offense will be very, very good. :)
He has about 121 days ....  
Manny in CA : 5/14/2015 6:08 pm : link
10 hours, 53 minutes to be ready (opening day kickoff vs. Dallas)
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