Just watching his presser .... gives me confidence the D will at least be better from a tactical and strategic standpoint. I also believe he'll have their heads and heart in the game.
honestly, the guy I'm most hesitant on right is Flaherty. I know apparently he has a great rep as an Oline coach, but when is the last time, we've felt really good about an oline draft pick that has really developed? Hopefully Richburg is that guy...and Flowers. Pugh has been OK....and then a bunch of guys like, Brewer, Moseley, Herman, Petrus, etc.
someone to bring up the Rams & Saints which is irrelevant because A)
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
someone to bring up the Rams & Saints which is irrelevant because A)
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
But what about the Rams and Saints?
The problems with Fewell were pretty obvious, though
Players often mentioned they were confused, didn't feel they could go to PF to discuss it, didn't feel communication was good or consistent, the numerous blown zone coverages, the numerous perplexing defensive gameplans, numerous failures on 3rd and long to get off the field, strange choices of calls on giving cushions to WR. The list was long.
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
someone to bring up the Rams & Saints which is irrelevant because A)
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
You brought it up, you win.
RE: The problems with Fewell were pretty obvious, though
Players often mentioned they were confused, didn't feel they could go to PF to discuss it, didn't feel communication was good or consistent, the numerous blown zone coverages, the numerous perplexing defensive gameplans, numerous failures on 3rd and long to get off the field, strange choices of calls on giving cushions to WR. The list was long.
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
Well said. Fewell also was very poor at making adjustments at half time. When he installed a game plan he wouldn't change it after half time even if it wasn't working. Also how many times did we watch opposing offenses easily march down the field late in the 4th quarter to take the lead?
someone to bring up the Rams & Saints which is irrelevant because A)
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
if his previous success counts, then his previous abysmal failures also count. If his previous failures don't count then neither should previous success.
Without the warm nostalgia of his previous success there is no basis for this overwhelming confidence that his mere presence will produce better results.
honestly, the guy I'm most hesitant on right is Flaherty. I know apparently he has a great rep as an Oline coach, but when is the last time, we've felt really good about an oline draft pick that has really developed? Hopefully Richburg is that guy...and Flowers. Pugh has been OK....and then a bunch of guys like, Brewer, Moseley, Herman, Petrus, etc.
we should still acknowledge we won a SB with Fewell as DC; not many teams have a SB winning DC.
As with Gibride, the system / coach didn't seem to evolve as the Giants roster and the game in general changed.
I see Fewell as a successful (for a time) version of R*d R*st's "Read and React" defense. Fewell had the personnel (and some good luck) to make it work. "Bend and don't break and get turnovers" seemed to be Fewell's bread and butter.
Personally, I like more of an attacking defense as Spags had in 2007 and 2008. I also agree with the comments that Spags appears to have a better track record of half time adjustments (i.e. I agree Fewell seemed to stick with something even if it didn't work - see last game against Peyton's Colts).
I'm hoping bringing Spags back plus fewer injuries translates by themselves into 2 to 4 more wins.
Players often mentioned they were confused, didn't feel they could go to PF to discuss it, didn't feel communication was good or consistent, the numerous blown zone coverages, the numerous perplexing defensive gameplans, numerous failures on 3rd and long to get off the field, strange choices of calls on giving cushions to WR. The list was long.
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
Well said. Fewell also was very poor at making adjustments at half time. When he installed a game plan he wouldn't change it after half time even if it wasn't working. Also how many times did we watch opposing offenses easily march down the field late in the 4th quarter to take the lead?
Well, not on Fewell, but Johnny Lynn's refusal to listen to Strayhan and the D about mixing it up as San Francisco shredded a very comfortable lead in that damn playoff game that never happened.
What the hell is it with stubborn people? Are they stupid, or insecure or rigid or close-minded? Or don't want to admit what they were doing was wrong or inadequate and to change it up would be a tacit admission of that.
he flamed out in his two previous jobs with similar or greater responsibility. 2008 is a long time ago.
I'm optimistic..I discount the effect HCs have on units they 100% only concentrated on as coordinators as opposed to spreading themselves thin overseeing everything..
As to his stint with the Saints, there were several factors at play there, not the least of which was the disaster started by Gregg Williams..Not absolving him totally, rather throwing that out as a POSSIBLE mitigating factor..
I think returning to the Giants will rejuvenate Spags as much as he
Most of us hated to see him go. I didn't like Fewell. Don't know enough about his schemes or what changes he may or may not have made at halftime to judge that but what I hated about him was he never got fired up. His Defense could give up two TD is a matter of minutes and he'd stand there with a freaking smile on his face. I mean....seriously? Then you look at the maniac in Dallas and he always looks like his head is going to explode. LOL!
shouldn't that same person be questioning Coughlin? What's his performance look like the last few years??? Personally, I think the combination of Spags, Mac, and TC should be a good one. Still need a reasonable level of health.
RE: I think returning to the Giants will rejuvenate Spags as much as he
before Coughlin hired him in '04. He was brutal as head coach of the Chargers, and mediocre at best as an OC with Pittsburgh and Buffalo. Didn't stop him from helping us win big. I agree that this reunion will benefit both sides.
But, that may not be saying much. The D was a bottom quarter of the league for a few years, at least. Just about anybody should bump them up at least a little.
I am not, however, confident, this D makes the jump to a top quarter of the league. That is based on a combination of personnel and Spags. I think he is slightly overrated here.
Either way, like Eric said, we should have at least some level of confidence in the OC and DC. ST is a whole other animal. We have changed personnel several times over at the primary positions of all the ST units and continued to have bad to mediocre results. That includes PR, KR, and both coverage units.
Coach/Organization
Reese Stays = Good
Coughlin Stays = Good
Fewell Gone = Very Good
Spags = Very Good
Flaherty = Couldn't we do better?
Quinn = Should have been replaced
FA Signings
JPP Franchise Good
Vereen good
Harris OK but too much money
Rolle should have kept him - no other major losses.
Should have signed OL - Like the kid from Canada
Should have signed Safties
Linebackers we'll see
D-line we'll see
Draft
Flowers, Odi, Collins = very good
Other picks not so much
Should have used pick on OT Collins
UDFA (At the time of signing)
Like RB from Purdue
Like LB from Maryland
I pretty much agree with the consensus except I like Flaherty. Generally optimistic but understanding that playoffs are not unreasonable, but a lot has to fall into place if we are gonna make a run at the SB.
I have absolutely no idea how he will do here in his 2nd go-around
but I like the guy and am optimistic that he will be what our D needs to step up their performance.
That said, HJ45 is right... you don't get to pick and choose which of Spags previous stints count and which do not. There may or may not be mitigating circumstances surrounding his Rams and Saints years, or they may tell an important part of the story.
like what i hear about the homework he is giving the defence,making them study the great players from the teams past and pushing them to aim for the same.
we never heard any positives like this from fewell and indeed the majority of the 2011 superbowl run seamed to stem from the defence themselves in team only meetings that turned things around more than fewell ever did,all we ever heard was the team and especially the secondry was confused by the coverage and that was evident when megatron or dez would waltz thru the secondry uncovered for an easy score.
i also think the unstoppable play of cruz and jpp had alot to do with it,that superbowl run was triggered by cruz's 99 yd touchdown against the jets,rex ryans nonsense with the covering of the giants superbowl trophies also factored into inspiring the team too
Some were mocked because their stated belief was Spags would return the defense to glory while ignoring his post-NYG stints. While the polar opposite crowd points at his abject failures since leaving NYG, and leans toward belief he won't likely be successful in stint two.
Up until that goal line stand against the Redskins in 2007, we were ready to run Spags out of town. The defense was not good throughout the first quarter of that season.
I'm as eager to pull away from the embarrassing, historically awful display that was put on at times by Fewell's unit but - more than likely this new defense will require some time to gel.
Hopefully our special teams see a boost with the attention and resources they have invested in it this off-season.
honestly, the guy I'm most hesitant on right is Flaherty. I know apparently he has a great rep as an Oline coach, but when is the last time, we've felt really good about an oline draft pick that has really developed? Hopefully Richburg is that guy...and Flowers. Pugh has been OK....and then a bunch of guys like, Brewer, Moseley, Herman, Petrus, etc.
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
But what about the Rams and Saints?
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
You brought it up, you win.
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
Well said. Fewell also was very poor at making adjustments at half time. When he installed a game plan he wouldn't change it after half time even if it wasn't working. Also how many times did we watch opposing offenses easily march down the field late in the 4th quarter to take the lead?
he is not the Head Coach B) He did develop a SB defense from scratch in 2011-2012 and the Saints were a dysfunctional mess
Without the warm nostalgia of his previous success there is no basis for this overwhelming confidence that his mere presence will produce better results.
Quote:
I feel good about 2/3's of the coordinators.
+1
Hey Eric, we need a "like" button
Hopefully our special teams see a boost with the attention and resources they have invested in it this off-season.
He is returning to the same role, under the same head coach as when he had his greatest success.
That should count more IMO than different roles entirely with different organizations under different circumstances i.e. Bountygate.
Quote:
I feel good about 2/3's of the coordinators.
honestly, the guy I'm most hesitant on right is Flaherty. I know apparently he has a great rep as an Oline coach, but when is the last time, we've felt really good about an oline draft pick that has really developed? Hopefully Richburg is that guy...and Flowers. Pugh has been OK....and then a bunch of guys like, Brewer, Moseley, Herman, Petrus, etc.
Petrus quit on us
He is returning to the same role, under the same head coach as when he had his greatest success.
That should count more IMO than different roles entirely with different organizations under different circumstances i.e. Bountygate.
Well said.
So you feel good about Quinn, Spags....but not McAdoo??
Hopefully gone are the days of the brilliantly-schemed play that that isolates Herzilch as the playmaker. WTF.
As with Gibride, the system / coach didn't seem to evolve as the Giants roster and the game in general changed.
I see Fewell as a successful (for a time) version of R*d R*st's "Read and React" defense. Fewell had the personnel (and some good luck) to make it work. "Bend and don't break and get turnovers" seemed to be Fewell's bread and butter.
Personally, I like more of an attacking defense as Spags had in 2007 and 2008. I also agree with the comments that Spags appears to have a better track record of half time adjustments (i.e. I agree Fewell seemed to stick with something even if it didn't work - see last game against Peyton's Colts).
I'm hoping bringing Spags back plus fewer injuries translates by themselves into 2 to 4 more wins.
Quote:
Players often mentioned they were confused, didn't feel they could go to PF to discuss it, didn't feel communication was good or consistent, the numerous blown zone coverages, the numerous perplexing defensive gameplans, numerous failures on 3rd and long to get off the field, strange choices of calls on giving cushions to WR. The list was long.
With Spags and a rebuilt defense with ascending talent, his track record demonstrates he can coach, scheme, teach his players, and instill a high level of preparation and confidence. That alone figures to win a game or two each season.
It was past time for a change. I would've pulled the plug after the '13 season, the trends were clear already at that point.
Well said. Fewell also was very poor at making adjustments at half time. When he installed a game plan he wouldn't change it after half time even if it wasn't working. Also how many times did we watch opposing offenses easily march down the field late in the 4th quarter to take the lead?
Well, not on Fewell, but Johnny Lynn's refusal to listen to Strayhan and the D about mixing it up as San Francisco shredded a very comfortable lead in that damn playoff game that never happened.
What the hell is it with stubborn people? Are they stupid, or insecure or rigid or close-minded? Or don't want to admit what they were doing was wrong or inadequate and to change it up would be a tacit admission of that.
I'm optimistic..I discount the effect HCs have on units they 100% only concentrated on as coordinators as opposed to spreading themselves thin overseeing everything..
As to his stint with the Saints, there were several factors at play there, not the least of which was the disaster started by Gregg Williams..Not absolving him totally, rather throwing that out as a POSSIBLE mitigating factor..
Show some fire to start the fire.
That is what I am hoping too.
I am not, however, confident, this D makes the jump to a top quarter of the league. That is based on a combination of personnel and Spags. I think he is slightly overrated here.
Either way, like Eric said, we should have at least some level of confidence in the OC and DC. ST is a whole other animal. We have changed personnel several times over at the primary positions of all the ST units and continued to have bad to mediocre results. That includes PR, KR, and both coverage units.
Coach/Organization
Reese Stays = Good
Coughlin Stays = Good
Fewell Gone = Very Good
Spags = Very Good
Flaherty = Couldn't we do better?
Quinn = Should have been replaced
FA Signings
JPP Franchise Good
Vereen good
Harris OK but too much money
Rolle should have kept him - no other major losses.
Should have signed OL - Like the kid from Canada
Should have signed Safties
Linebackers we'll see
D-line we'll see
Draft
Flowers, Odi, Collins = very good
Other picks not so much
Should have used pick on OT Collins
UDFA (At the time of signing)
Like RB from Purdue
Like LB from Maryland
I pretty much agree with the consensus except I like Flaherty. Generally optimistic but understanding that playoffs are not unreasonable, but a lot has to fall into place if we are gonna make a run at the SB.
That said, HJ45 is right... you don't get to pick and choose which of Spags previous stints count and which do not. There may or may not be mitigating circumstances surrounding his Rams and Saints years, or they may tell an important part of the story.
We will find out.
we never heard any positives like this from fewell and indeed the majority of the 2011 superbowl run seamed to stem from the defence themselves in team only meetings that turned things around more than fewell ever did,all we ever heard was the team and especially the secondry was confused by the coverage and that was evident when megatron or dez would waltz thru the secondry uncovered for an easy score.
i also think the unstoppable play of cruz and jpp had alot to do with it,that superbowl run was triggered by cruz's 99 yd touchdown against the jets,rex ryans nonsense with the covering of the giants superbowl trophies also factored into inspiring the team too
Truth is yet known.
I'm as eager to pull away from the embarrassing, historically awful display that was put on at times by Fewell's unit but - more than likely this new defense will require some time to gel.