NJ.com: Nothing set in stone on the Giants offensive line

Flowers isn't replacing Beatty off the bat, so he'll replace Pugh at ORT with Pugh moving nect to Richburg on the left side, imo

Save for injury, what other combo would best suit the Giants' needs?

but best as well

Beatty and Flowers are not guards.

Richburg is the Center.

Can Schwartz and Pugh be flipped?

Beatty and Flowers?

is good and all but at the end of the day Beatty Schwartz Pugh Richburg and Flowers are all guaranteed starting spots. The alignment can change but nobody is unseating any of those players.

There is no "competition." Only an audition for roles.

Plan B is probably Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh (possibly with the guards flipped), in the event Flowers looks seriously shaky in camp and pre-season.

Plan C might be Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse, which would only require unsettling one position when Flowers is ready to take over at RT.

Reality might be none of the above. When was the last year the presumed line as of May 14 wound up starting in September?

"I haven't been told anything. Just come out here and work," he said over the weekend at rookie minicamp. "I'm going to compete at everything. I'm here to get on the field. David Diehl can come here and say he's the left tackle. I'm trying to get on the field and play wherever I can get on it."

Competition is great, but if Richburg can't beat out Reynolds and Jones the Giants would be in big trouble.

In comment 12286860 Victor in CT said:

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"I haven't been told anything. Just come out here and work," he said over the weekend at rookie minicamp. "I'm going to compete at everything. I'm here to get on the field. David Diehl can come here and say he's the left tackle. I'm trying to get on the field and play wherever I can get on it." Competition is great, but if Richburg can't beat out Reynolds and Jones the Giants would be in big trouble.

What of C Brett Jones excels during pre-season? A terrific problem to have

his whole life. He was lost at LG last year.

They also need to be prepared to play without Schwartz. His injury history necessitates that they have another G ready to play. He has only started all 16 games once in his career per pro-football-reference.com. The last 4 years he as dressed in 0, 13, 16 and 2 games, started in 0, 0, 7 and 2 games.
Geoff Schwartz - ( New Window )

They have expected starters, but those players still have to do their jobs in camp to meet those expectations.

In comment 12286864 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12286860 Victor in CT said: Quote: "I haven't been told anything. Just come out here and work," he said over the weekend at rookie minicamp. "I'm going to compete at everything. I'm here to get on the field. David Diehl can come here and say he's the left tackle. I'm trying to get on the field and play wherever I can get on it." Competition is great, but if Richburg can't beat out Reynolds and Jones the Giants would be in big trouble. What of C Brett Jones excels during pre-season? A terrific problem to have

Wrong choice of words BB56. It would be another high draft pick not playing.

But I'd bet on Beatty/Pugh/Richburg/Schwartz/Flowers being the line in Sept. Barring injuries of course.

In comment 12286869 Victor in CT said:

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his whole life. He was lost at LG last year. They also need to be prepared to play without Schwartz. His injury history necessitates that they have another G ready to play. He has only started all 16 games once in his career per pro-football-reference.com. The last 4 years he as dressed in 0, 13, 16 and 2 games, started in 0, 0, 7 and 2 games. Geoff Schwartz - ( New Window )

Not counting last year(his injury unrelated to prior years iirc), he played 29 of 32 games..Not ideal, but still not bad

In comment 12286875 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12286869 Victor in CT said: Quote: his whole life. He was lost at LG last year. They also need to be prepared to play without Schwartz. His injury history necessitates that they have another G ready to play. He has only started all 16 games once in his career per pro-football-reference.com. The last 4 years he as dressed in 0, 13, 16 and 2 games, started in 0, 0, 7 and 2 games. Geoff Schwartz - ( New Window ) Not counting last year(his injury unrelated to prior years iirc), he played 29 of 32 games..Not ideal, but still not bad

Yes, but only started 7. I don't know whether it was due to injury or ineffectiveness with the Chiefs.

as someone who doesn't believe the staff is particularly happy with will beatty's play

would not shock me at all if Flowers is the LT and Pugh is the RT w/interior of Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry

In comment 12286890 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 12286875 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 12286869 Victor in CT said: Quote: his whole life. He was lost at LG last year. They also need to be prepared to play without Schwartz. His injury history necessitates that they have another G ready to play. He has only started all 16 games once in his career per pro-football-reference.com. The last 4 years he as dressed in 0, 13, 16 and 2 games, started in 0, 0, 7 and 2 games. Geoff Schwartz - ( New Window ) Not counting last year(his injury unrelated to prior years iirc), he played 29 of 32 games..Not ideal, but still not bad Yes, but only started 7. I don't know whether it was due to injury or ineffectiveness with the Chiefs.

Yeah, not sure about the basis for the 7 either

In comment 12286891 area junc said:

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as someone who doesn't believe the staff is particularly happy with will beatty's play would not shock me at all if Flowers is the LT and Pugh is the RT w/interior of Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry

Possibly, but I see Beatty starting this year & probably a cap cut next.

In comment 12286891 area junc said:

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as someone who doesn't believe the staff is particularly happy with will beatty's play would not shock me at all if Flowers is the LT and Pugh is the RT w/interior of Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry

I can't see Flowers at LT this year. You put Beatty at RT where he's even less of a fit?

Beatty Pugh Richburg Schwartz Flowers or flip guards. Can't see anything else panning out unless of injury.

In comment 12286837 Big Blue '56 said:

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Flowers isn't replacing Beatty off the bat, so he'll replace Pugh at ORT with Pugh moving nect to Richburg on the left side, imo Save for injury, what other combo would best suit the Giants' needs?

I agree with you I think that is the best combination. As you said Schwartz is at his best at RG and I think Pugh would be a better fit at LG than RG.

In comment 12286843 Chris684 said:

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Beatty and Flowers are not guards. Richburg is the Center. Can Schwartz and Pugh be flipped? Beatty and Flowers?

I don't understand why amateur analysts feel the need to talk in absolutes. Flowers could be an excellent guard considering technique is his issue now and he will get exposed to less speed and have his technique flaws mean less on the inside. Plus his power could be leveraged to neutralize big DTs which has been an issue for us. He has more value at RT or LT long term, yes, absolutely but saying "he is not a guard" is incorrect.

In comment 12286864 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12286860 Victor in CT said: Quote: "I haven't been told anything. Just come out here and work," he said over the weekend at rookie minicamp. "I'm going to compete at everything. I'm here to get on the field. David Diehl can come here and say he's the left tackle. I'm trying to get on the field and play wherever I can get on it." Competition is great, but if Richburg can't beat out Reynolds and Jones the Giants would be in big trouble. What of C Brett Jones excels during pre-season? A terrific problem to have

Jerry doesn't get on the field in case of injury thank GOD. And in 2016 if Beatty declines as he gets older Flowers or Pugh maybe can play LT.

for Plan A Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz and Flowers. I wasn't impressed with Jerry last season, and that may have been because, he was playing next to Walton and an injured Pugh. I hope we can fill our depth with another vet signing after the camp/ salary cuts.

with the bigger question being how long Beatty holds onto his job, given how much the regime respects Pugh and Flowers and their respective work ethics.

is does Pugh return to RT once Flowers is installed at LT, or will Newhouse get a look there before they look at drafting another RT.

In comment 12287031 JonC said:

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is does Pugh return to RT once Flowers is installed at LT, or will Newhouse get a look there before they look at drafting another RT.

Newhouse? Surely, you can't be serious.

And, yes, I did call you Shirley.

and feel they got a bargain.

.

In comment 12287031 JonC said:

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is does Pugh return to RT once Flowers is installed at LT, or will Newhouse get a look there before they look at drafting another RT.

Why are we jettisoning Beatty so quickly? He'll definitely be on the roster in 2016...Newhouse is only signed through 2016 and is purely a backup option anyway.

but I think the writing is on the wall, he'll need to earn his job each year and he's a LT.

In comment 12287042 JonC said:

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and feel they got a bargain.

God help us. Did they hold a high opinion of Charles Brown, too?

Flowers will be the LT when the time arrives for the switch.

quickly settle into their planned positions, because key linemen will have to make major changes from previous experience, and that should begin as quickly as possible. I'd like Pugh and Flowers to begin working at the LG and RT positions asap, with Schwartz installed at RG. Fuck this "versatility" crap. Put them at their positions and let them start to grow into those positions while the line begins to develop some cohesiveness as a unit.

will always have a job as long as TC is the HC.

Would not be surprised if Bamiro, Donnelly and Jones made the team with one competeing for a starting position, most likely Jones and the others offering Giant size backups.

Flowers starts right away. I could easily see the starting five being Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh, with the rookie perhaps in a swing tackle role to start. Or maybe even starting at G over Jerry.

They & we know, barring injury, what the starting OLine will be. But,they want Flowers to compete for it & so he should!

I just don't see how Flowers, who according to all reports needs more work, will unseat Pugh unless Pugh is still injured.

I'm thinking plan B in 2015, and 2016 will be a shoot-out. Pugh and Flowers will compete with Beatty for LOT while the runner up may the ROT. I don't know if Beatty can play guard but I do know Pugh has never done it.

Almost certain, barring injury, Plan B above will be the season's starting lineup.

I understand that he has never played at G. Is this a transition that is easy? Does he have the physical characteristics to make this transition? How about Flowers...Can he make the move to LG? How do his physical characteristics translate to LG play?

There are almost always injuries...So then what?

I should have called that Plan B - or Plan A-Prime, since the names are the same as Plan A. The starters look reasonably set at LT, C and RG. So unless Flowers flops, he and Pugh should occupy the other two positions, one way or the other.

As far as I can tell, the most experienced left guard on the roster is Richburg, and there's very little chance of him landing there unless Brett Jones pulls a shocking upset at center. So, no matter who starts at LG, he'll be out of position to some degree.

was actually his 2016 number, Flowers would be LT.....

Beatty is gone next year, unless he accepts some kind of pay cut.......wrong side of 30, and too costly(Cruz money).....

However, if Beatty has a great year, it might affect the Giant's plans for next year....

While individually, it sounds like a solid line of B-P-R-S-F, Beatty is the only known quantity...

Can Pugh play left guard?...Can Richburg play center?.......Can Schwartz play a better RG than LG, and stay on the field? Can Flowers be effective as a rookie, or make those rookie mistakes that cost drives?

To have a good line, you need continuity and familiarity....something this line is seriously lacking......

In comment 12287031 JonC said:

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is does Pugh return to RT once Flowers is installed at LT, or will Newhouse get a look there before they look at drafting another RT.

Any shot Pugh's the future LT?

In comment 12286846 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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is good and all but at the end of the day Beatty Schwartz Pugh Richburg and Flowers are all guaranteed starting spots. The alignment can change but nobody is unseating any of those players. There is no "competition." Only an audition for roles.

so if the 5 players you named arent the best 5, the coacjes are lying, and they are going to start those 5 anyway? I dont believe it. I think they start the best 5.

that he can play C, as it was his position in college and he did an excellent job there. I'm not worried too much about whether he can play it; he'll certainly be our best player there since O'Hara (and Seuie in his short stint).

I also think that Pugh has the movement skills and toughness for LG, and will be better in pass pro there...I just think he needs time to get acclimated.

My concern is whether Flowers has the ability at this time to pass protect at RT. I'd like him to get tons of reps there to grow into that and prove whether he can handle it. If not, then Pugh stays there and there's a battle for the OG spot.

In comment 12286837 Big Blue '56 said:

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Flowers isn't replacing Beatty off the bat, so he'll replace Pugh at ORT with Pugh moving nect to Richburg on the left side, imo Save for injury, what other combo would best suit the Giants' needs?

I'm with you. I can't see another way unless the Giants decide to leave Pugh outside and play Flowers at guard which IMO would be a mistake.

Schwartz+Flowers providing reliable running room to the right will open up play action and provide balance

part of the o's problem the last 3 or 4 years is they can't hang their hat on anything in the run game. no foundation. need that go-to play and build everything off it

if we can dictate run and our receiving core hits right we have the potential to be the #1 offense in the league

In comment 12286891 area junc said:

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as someone who doesn't believe the staff is particularly happy with will beatty's play would not shock me at all if Flowers is the LT and Pugh is the RT w/interior of Schwartz-Richburg-Jerry

If they are not happy with him I don't blame them. His inconsistency is very expensive but he is great for depth just wish he didn't cost so much.

I can't say for sure, but TC normally prefers big tackles who can move piles, and Pugh is a smallish technician. Pugh at LT seems to get more spin here. There's also been word that they've been pushing Pugh to pick it up, perhaps moving him inside and holding LT as a carrot is something that pops up down the road, but that's definitely speculation.

His film is incredibly impressive. Talk about a guy who has the quickness to pop two guys on any one play, the punch to make it work, and the aggressiveness to stay on his blocks through the end of the play. Not gonna get too excited, as I recall how fun Herman's tape was to watch. But Jones' play reminds me of a more athletic Seubert. He likely winds up as the backup C, but I wonder if he could win a spot at OG if Schwartz has to wind up at RT.

. no gimps this year