Sometimes Jerry Rice, you gotta let things die

was boted by NFL.com(?) as the greatest player EVER. that's over Jimmy Brown, L.T., Butkus, Zbrady, Peyton, Eller, Reggie White et al..

legit Hall of Famer, with a lot of rings. His longevity as a WR is his greatest accomplishment IMHO.

He is NOT the NFL's greatest player (not even close IMHO). The Montana-Rice and Young-Rice combos were always a threat, but I don't recall any "I'm shaking in my boots because we're facing Jerry Rice." type of statements from other players as were made regarding LT, Jim Brown.

The 49er teams he was a part of surely had a "shaking in my boots" effect, but not due to Rice personally IMHO.

Rice also appears to be very much full of himself, which is a big turn off for me.

Just go away Jerry.

+1

In comment 12288222 Trainmaster said:

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legit Hall of Famer, with a lot of rings. His longevity as a WR is his greatest accomplishment IMHO. He is NOT the NFL's greatest player (not even close IMHO). The Montana-Rice and Young-Rice combos were always a threat, but I don't recall any "I'm shaking in my boots because we're facing Jerry Rice." type of statements from other players as were made regarding LT, Jim Brown. The 49er teams he was a part of surely had a "shaking in my boots" effect, but not due to Rice personally IMHO. Rice also appears to be very much full of himself, which is a big turn off for me. Just go away Jerry.

Off topic: Do you remember the earlier years of Sirius..He had a (brief) regular gig(not sure with whom) and he was dreadful..

and it was the most unlistenable show in the history of radio.

In comment 12288242 YAJ2112 said:

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and it was the most unlistenable show in the history of radio.

See, this is where we need a "Like" button..

when they announced that Moving the Chains was moving to the drive time slot and I could listen to the channel again on the way home.

Stephen A. Smith had a morning show for a while. That was pretty awful.

The 1984 team was arguably their best. They drafted Rice in 1985.

That said, Rice's complete body of work is as impressive as anyone's. His season at age 40 with Oakland was one of the freakiest things I've seen in the NFL: he was making corners half his age look foolish. (The three stars of that offense - Rice, Brown and Gannon - were a combined 113 years old.) By that age, Jim Brown was washed up in his second career.

Brown, Taylor, Montana, and the other GOAT candidates all had relatively short primes compared to Rice. He's in a different category, with the likes of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Darrell Green - players who were ridiculously good for a ridiculously long time.

In comment 12288247 Greg from LI said:

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Stephen A. Smith had a morning show for a while. That was pretty awful.

He's got one on Mad Dog radio now.

In comment 12288242 YAJ2112 said:

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and it was the most unlistenable show in the history of radio.

Challenge - local ESPN station in and around Danbury....


And if you don't think opposing teams feared facing Rice, you weren't paying attention.

Rice was someone to worry about for sure!

He knew more about getting open than anyone and it wasn't close. He didn't do it with speed or size - it was skill and dedication to his craft.

from a "not a flash in the pan / one hit wonder" perspective, but I think the level of play during peak years is more important.

Being paired with 2 HOF QBs for much of his career, having other major offensive threats (John Taylor, Roger Craig) playing with him didn't hurt.

I look at "one man offensive shows" such as Jim Brown, Walter Payton and OJ Simpson as having a higher peak years than Rice.

His drop of a sure TD against the Giants in the 1986 season playoff game will be my fondest Jerry Rice moment.

his knee knocking the ball lose while racing to the end zone than an actual drop per se..:)

.

Of having to defend Jerry Rice - his greatness was in the fact that his peak was so was long - he led the league in receiving at age 24 and age 33 (and 4 years in between) - dipped below 10 TDs once over that period.

You could divide his career in half and make a legitimate case for the HOF in each half.

Any discussion that doesn't include him as one of the greatest offensive players of all time can't be taken seriously.

In comment 12288222 Trainmaster said:

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His longevity as a WR is his greatest accomplishment IMHO.

I respectfully disagree. The guys was flat out dominant and unquestionably the best WR every year from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. He had game speed, ran perfect routes, the best hands in the game, and outstanding football IQ. If not the best player ever, he is clearly the best WR ever. The only offensive player I would put above him is Jim Brown. If the guys stopped playing after he got hurt in 1997 he'd still be the best WR and best 2 or 3 offensive players ever.

In comment 12288247 Greg from LI said:

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Stephen A. Smith had a morning show for a while. That was pretty awful.

Some things never change.

to defenses than Jerry Rice ever was.

and influential for any other position player to be considered the best NFL player ever.

Cris Carter did not use 'stickem'.

Then you were a fool. Rice may not be the best football player ever, a designation impossible to qualify, but rice was a legendary player. He's on top of any list. Easily.

History tends to warp opinions on this stuff. The day Rice retired there wasn't a NFL fan alive that didn't feel he was the best ever. Now it's a different story.

Rice was the best ever. His numbers and accomplishments are downright filthy.

In comment 12288410 Lowell said:

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to defenses than Jerry Rice ever was.

That's just insulting. Cmon dude... Can beckham help the Giants win one meaningful football game before we start with this crap?

And for the record Rice's best years best beckham's flashy rookie campaign.

How soon some of you forget...

If you don't believe me, just ask him.

a movie career. He was nowhere near the end of his career. His last year, 1965, he rushed for 1544 yards in a 14 game season. Scored 17 TDs and had a 5.3 average.

No matter who's on the list, you make room for Jerry Rice then figure the rest out. LOL at the "teams feared OBJ more last year than they ever did Jerry Rice" comment

I hesitate to say best ever because he had some scheme advantages (teams weren't designed to beat the WCO until the late 90s) and he had guys like T.O., Taylor, Brent Jones, on offense - though the counter argument could be made that Rice made those guys.

But if he cheated (and it seems he did), you have to knock him down a few pegs.

The greatest WR I've seen at his peak though was Larry Fitzgerald 2008-9 playoffs. He was in such a zone that teams were playing all kinds of exotic defenses designed to stop him from catching the ball, because Fitzgerald getting the ball meant an automatic Arizona touchdown. It was Madden-level stuff I never thought I'd see in an actual game.

Fitzgerald getting the ball anywhere past the line of scrimmage was an automatic touchdown.

that's why two of his teammate receivers put together a bunch of big seasons, too, all the coverage was being rolled to Rice.

You are correct; drop was a poor choice of words. Fumbled (since he caught the ball and ran with it for many yards).

I don't think anyone would disagree. I'm debating the "best football player ever" crown he has been given.

The characteristics that the "best player ever" must have include IMHO:

1) Player with a clear "fear factor" (not necessarily due to physical harm)
2) Player who carried their teams on their backs for multiple key games or better yet, seasons
3) Player who fundamentally changed the game

LT, Jim Brown easily meet all three (with #3) being the hardest to achieve)

I think John Elway, Walter Payton, OJ Simpson and maybe Deacon Jones and Dick Butkus meet at least 2.

I don't think Rice meets any of the three.

I'd would have loved to see the numbers Tim Brown would have put up with Montana and Young..

But again, there is no way he was the best PLAYER ever imv, not if you saw some of the others mentioned above..

That's all some of us are saying..It is not diminishing the HOF skills he presented as the best WR ever..But best player, ever? Give us a break

Of the QB position, it's hard to make an argument for anyone but.

Dismissing Rice out of hand belies an ignorance about the history of the sport...you can talk about Jim Brown all you want and why he stopped playing, but he stopped and Rice produced massive numbers at a point in his career when Jim Brown was throwing grenades down vents at Nazi officers.

I don't think Rice is the greatest of all time, but I will listen respectfully to anyone that suggests he might be, only because it is a reasonable position.

Playing at a high level for 20 years merits much respect and he's been honored manyfold for his greatness..

What Jimmy Brown did over a mostly 12 game season is astonishing..It is reasonable to assume that had he played another 5 years he would still be a record holder in many areas..

LT totally changed what Defenses became..Rice had an impact and he made those around him better, but many exceptional WRs could have made an impact with the Niners..Perhaps not a Rice impact, but certainly championship type caliber impact, imo..

No one comes close to the LT impact imv..I would venture to say, outside of possibly QB, LT easily would have been the top choice to start a franchise..

You're not declaring (necessarily) Rice the best ever as a PLAYER, but a strong case could be made for LT and some others as that GOAT..

People can have an informative and reasonable discussion on the subject, but I'm sorry, I don't see any scenario where Rice would be the GOAT in terms of number 1 all-time, save as WR..

To declare unquestionably that a player is the greatest of all time at his position (offense or defense), then with equal certainty declare that they aren't even in the discussion for the greatest football player of all time.

And I don't know what this arbitrary requirement of changing the game is - does the first QB who threw a forward pass immediately enter the discussion? Arguably, Reggie White didn't change the game the way LT did, does that exclude him from the conversation as one of the greatest defensive players ever?

imo..

and I've made that clear..Discuss Rice all one wants, he was NOT better at what he did, than LT was at what he did..Indisputable to me..

Not interested in who is or who isn't in the discussion as I readily concede that for discussion purposes, White, Butkus, Rice, Brady, Unitas et al merit discussion as the GOAT, player-wise, not just position-wise..

On no planet however, is Jerry Rice a better player in general than LT or Jimmy Brown was..Imo

i'm not saying any of the guys, including Rice, are not in the discussion for GOAT..They are..

Reality-wise, imo, Rice in his greatness, was not the player LT was in his greatness..

I can't be any clearer than that..

Words like "indisputable" and on "no planet" - you express an air of certainty where none can be had. It's the same sort of annoyingly dismissive and intellectually vapid argument as "much ado".

Dismissing Reggie White in favor of Taylor because he didn't "change the game" is such an odd, homerific argument that it is hard to comment on.

my last word(s)..

Jerry Rice was the best WR ever imo..A certifiable HOFerof the highest degree..He deserves to be IN THE DISCUSSION for the GOAT player, but imo was not as good as LT, Jimmy Brown, Reggie White, Johnny Unitas, Tom Brady, imo..There are others Who I feel JR was not as good as..

Debate with someone else, I've been quite clear with my opinion..Feel free to disagree..So again, JR deserves to be in the discussion for best player ever, but imho, he is not..

What else do you want?

+1

dynasty. The vastly underrated part of that dynasty was the defense. I thought the 1984-85 Niners defense was one of the most underrated great defenses in NFL history. They shut down Marino and the Marks brothers in the SB.

Jim Brown, LT, Dick Butkus, Johnny Unitas, Reggie White. If you're not considering the overall quality of play in each era, and just look at each era as its own unit of measure, i still think Don Hutson ahould be ranked ahead of Rice.

with Rice ... are reasons I think the NFL's ranking of them 1&2 all time was a total and complete joke. Tough to say someone is the best WR of all time when he has the greatest QB of all time throwing him the ball. At the same time, it's tough to call a QB the greatest QB of all time, when he has a WR that is claimed to be the greatest player of all time.

And I never thought very much of either one of them playing a rinky dink 3 yard pass "touch football" style of offense. They were both products of the the overall offensive talent and style of play. How good would either of been playing for Tampa Bay in the early 80's? I suspect neither one would be in the HOF.

not sure what the upside is for Rice to bring this up repeatedly.

discussion rather than "greatest ever". There's a distinct difference. Rice has the more consistent body of work, but I don't think he had the same impact as rookie Randy Moss did. Moss breathed life into the careers of Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, and Daunte Culpepper. He also headlined 2 of the greatest offenses of all time, who had 1 regular season loss between them.

I'd take a motivated, peak Randy Moss over a Jerry Rice if I had to choose between the two.

In comment 12289377 batwood06 said:

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not sure what the upside is for Rice to bring this up repeatedly.

People are talking about him, that's the upside. Bad publicity is better than none to guys like him, Donald Trump, and others.

In comment 12289387 David in LA said:

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I'd take a motivated, peak Randy Moss over a Jerry Rice if I had to choose between the two.

Hard to argue against that. One of the great athletes ever to play the position - had a fantastic 21-26 that compares very favorably with Rice, then that swing through Oakland, and a resurgence with NE. But his end of career was like most WRs that don't have Rice's work ethic - done at 33/34, whereas Rice added another 8,000 receiving yards.