In today’s Sunday reading the article on missed tackles prompted me to bring up a question about the defensive line.
Our stat against the run was pretty dismal. Ranked near the bottom, someone here can quote the exact rank. While, I read here (BBI in general) that, JPP is stout against the run and Hankins did a great job on the inside. So what is the exact problem that needs to be addressed.
I don’t expect Jenkins to make the team. He’s 34 and based on his broken tackles to solo tackles 4/7 he wasn’t very productive. Hopefully the tandem of Bromley and Ellis along with Hankins can shore up the middle. Can either of the free agents Hamilton (Keith’s son?) or Taylor do enough to replace Kuhn? Let’s hope so.
On the edge we have JPP. To me he didn’t do a lot early in the season but as the season came along so did his production, at least from QB sacks stats. Maybe he was strong against the run all along.
Kiwi’s gone and although he was a great solder and did everything he was asked during his career he wasn’t very productive last year so we won’t miss anything there. As pointed out Ayers was the worst in the league with missed tackles but the real story is the percentage of almost 30%.Were his missed tackles against the run or missing a potential sack? I guess the potential of OO and the addition of Selvie probably is a stronger option on early downs and against the run then Kiwi and Ayers. Rotating in Moore on the edge and Ayers from the inside on passing downs potentially puts some pressure on the QB. Then there’s still Wynn who I still wonder what he did.
These are my observations, opinions nothing based on real stats except what was in the article. What are yours? Be nice!
Oh! Spags will solve all ill's!
Spags runs a much more dynamic, attacking scheme which should, once it's firmly in place, produce markedly different numbers.
JPP and Hankins are part of the solution, not the problem. Run defense has to do with all 11 players, not just the front seven.
JPP and Hankins are part of the solution, not the problem. Run defense has to do with all 11 players, not just the front seven.
Not saying they are the problem but where and how else can we improve the line!
When the above takes place, it often falls to your CBs to come up in support, and they often get dinged (Prince and Rolle especially).
I have reservations about Bromley. Has anyone seen enough from Bromley to believe that he will be part of the solution?
I have reservations about Bromley. Has anyone seen enough from Bromley to believe that he will be part of the solution?
Did you see enough of Linval Joseph in his rookie year? How about Johnathan Hankins? I doubt it. My guess is that you're one of those who can't get over the fact that the Giants drafted Bromley in the 3rd round, so you'll take every opportunity to run the kid down.
I think brown, demps, williams, paysinger, kiwi, patterson showed that they were regressing from a not very high ceiling.
They are betting on Taylor, behre, Casillas, Thomas, Selvie and Ellis as not only being better today but also guys that have a higher ceiling that they haven't reached yet.
While they only lost one impact player in Rolle, Collins gives them a more then mid level replacement.
But when all is said and done, you really have JPP and Hankins.....but the longer this contract dispute goes on, the less I like it.....statistically, JPP had a good year last year....but was he a force in all games? You might get the same type of play out of him, where he picks and chooses, when he want to play and just accumulate stats, and avoid injury for next year's big contract....I seriously doubt the Giants pay him 15M this year, and then 18M next....
Wynn had a Jernigan game last year.....Ellis is Jenkins without pass rushing ability....Kuhn looks better than he plays.....Bromley is an unknown.....Double O is a rookie....Ayers is returning from an injury....Moore has to make plays and show some consistency......will Selvie make us forget Kiwi?
Until they get out there and play in Spags' system, we just don't know.....right now the team is healthy and they look good on paper.....hopefully, they look that way for the first game....
Not the same in a 4-3 but lb play matters. Hope the new lbs can contribute as well.
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I think that Ellis can help and will be stout against the run.
I have reservations about Bromley. Has anyone seen enough from Bromley to believe that he will be part of the solution?
Did you see enough of Linval Joseph in his rookie year? How about Johnathan Hankins? I doubt it. My guess is that you're one of those who can't get over the fact that the Giants drafted Bromley in the 3rd round, so you'll take every opportunity to run the kid down.
If Bromley is a starter next season we can compare him to Joseph. Like all other questions, we are gonna have to wait to see. Is Bromley expected to fill in as a starter? I think there is more doubt about him doing that than there was about LJ in his second season. Hankins played the most of the three as a rookie and I think he showed the most as well, then Joseph, Bromley the least.
The key is Beason has to stay healthy. He hasn't in the two years with the team. Not sure about when he was with the Panthers.
If the Giants stop teams on 3rd downs....our running stats improve.
Even, if we allow more passes.....will improve our running statistic.
I have high hopes for drastic improvements
I don't care what anyone tells me. I saw those games and Patterson absolutely was near a zero factor in run stops. Off the LOS his first move was to the ground. I think his most positive play last year was a play where his huge body on the ground slowed up Blue from the Texans allowing Herzlich to tackle him behind the line and many thought that was a positive play for Patterson.
Kiwi was getting manhandled by TEs and FBs last year. He too loved getting blocked into the ground. I mean that Dallas game just smh. But it was virtually every game he was in he couldn't shed blocks.
Kuhn was another guy who got a lot of playing time but didn't produce a lot. Once again that Dallas game in both against the run and the pass.
And Jenkins had a very subpar year for me. But I saw that in the preseason. He looked very slow to the ball and at times gave up on the play.
1) Showed some ability last year, although he clearly was a better pass defender.
2) Everything we read about him is that he is working hard in the off season, which is consistent with what former coaches have said about his work ethic.
3) During a Giants com interview, he really talked about some technique specific lessons learned, things to work on.
Talent, work ethic, and an informed performance improvement plan - hopefully everything comes together for him this season.
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all strengthen our front 7 against the run. Plus with Hankins, Moore, and Bromley all having another year under their bely, I expect this to be a strength. The Giants have now invested a #2 pick, three #3 picks, and picked up two big FA signings (when including Beason and Ellis).
The key is Beason has to stay healthy. He hasn't in the two years with the team. Not sure about when he was with the Panthers.
Beason isn't nearly as critical to Defensive success than many here presume. He's a terrific veteran presence who is on the downside of his career and has the experience and feel for the game you want in a Middle Linebacker. However, if/when he goes down, his spot will be adequately filled.
The D-Line is far more critical to success than the Linebacking corps will ever be.
I guess what you are saying is, every player on the team must be a premier player and definately a starter. That just isn't going to happen, the salary cap assures all of that fact! Clearly, Spags isn't in a panic with the current DL players on the roster. Hankins is a quality DT, Bromley is out from under Fewell and has a year under his belt as was pointed out previously and we have other DT's on the roster for rotation and in an emergency. Remember, Coughlin/Fewell did not afford rookie DT's much playing time in their 1st year, I would say Bromnley has done nothing to cause the coaches to think anything other than he will be one of the starters.
How many times do you have to be reminded that the Giants signed Kendrick Ellis this year? When it comes to DTs, the only "big hole" appears to be the one in your head.
Experience is the great educator, and he was put in the corner all last year.....I don't think that year counts for anything....he now has to learn a new system.....about the only thing he has learned is the difference in NFL preparation vs college...
And Joseph had six, and Hankins had a whopping nine in their respective rookie seasons. Big deal.
Put in a corner? Can you substantiate that, or is it mere conjecture on your part? Bromley actually played in two more games as a rookie than Joseph did. Was Joseph put in a corner, too?
Beason consistently engaged RBs (and running QBs) along the line before they got a head of steam. That just did not occur with the MLBs we stuck in there last season.
Do you think they'll still exist on September 13?
But they got strong on the DL this offseason.
What really will help the run defense will be Landon Collins and maybe Nat Berhe or Cooper Taylor at safety PLUS a healthy Jon Beason.
preseason . If he turns out to be solid then with
Health being the biggest concern to me .
This defense could be top 10 go ahead say what
you will but I think Reece did an excellent Job
this year even after losing out on McCourty .
Really looking forward to this season .
The reason I ask is that I keep hearing how well JPP shuts down the run, but I was wondering were we just weak on sealing the edge on the opposite side of him or were the LBs not doing their job on his side.
thanks!
Andrew
Who was ahead of LJ? In comparison, who was ahead of Bromley?
This DL sucked last year, and Bromley couldn't get more playing time?
Last year, the starters were Hankins, Jenkins (12 games), and Patterson (8 games), with Kuhn seeing a lot of playing time. This year, Patterson is gone, Kuhn may not make it out of camp, and Jenkins is back for a year on the cheap. Now, Ellis may start next to Hankins (the operative word being "may"), but I suspect that Bromley will see plenty of playing time regardless, particularly on obvious passing downs.
So telling me that they missed sacks doesnt really tell me the whole picture..
Ayers played real well last yeaar before he got hurt
Damontre Moore has gotten good pressure but need to finish better
Kerry Wynn looks like a stud in the making
Odighizuwa can play vs run and rush well
Hankins is an excellent tackler, gets pressuse, has some speed, strong, stuffs the run
Jenkins is underrated as he play the run very well and also gets pressure
Selvie plays the run well
Ellis plays the run well
Kuhn neeeds to go
thats 9 defensive linemen that are all wortthy or starting. Theyre all gonna play, if they keep fresh by rotating which i assume they will they can really ware down an offensive line and take control of games
fucking pumped for this season
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I think that Ellis can help and will be stout against the run.
I have reservations about Bromley. Has anyone seen enough from Bromley to believe that he will be part of the solution?
Did you see enough of Linval Joseph in his rookie year? How about Johnathan Hankins? I doubt it. My guess is that you're one of those who can't get over the fact that the Giants drafted Bromley in the 3rd round, so you'll take every opportunity to run the kid down.
Don't forget Marvin Austin
As for the offense it's always given the belief that it's going to be special last year the defense held that same belief. It's a new year and we as of today have filled some roster spots but have we really improved the starting positions enough to say we will be a true contender?
As for the offense it's always given the belief that it's going to be special last year the defense held that same belief. It's a new year and we as of today have filled some roster spots but have we really improved the starting positions enough to say we will be a true contender?
SEAL the edge is something the offense tries to accomplish in blocking up a play.
It would appear to me the Giants have less of those guys heading into this off-season. If this team can just get solid play out of the new comers, we will be in good shape. The DL needs Wynn, Moore, the DTs, Selvie and Ayers to emerge as capable players. They don't have to dominate or anything, just play well. JPP and Hankins will shine if the other guys do their job.
In their place we have the 1st, 2nd and 3 year guys...we need the kids to become capable players. Giants always seem to be better off going with the kids...Giants struggle when they try and hold on with some older guys...other teams get away with it..not us.
No, he's not a "savior" (I'll assume you meant "savior" instead of "survivor"), but he doesn't have to be. He just has to do his job - play good run defense on early downs.