The dumbing down of America

if you don't have critical thinking skills, you are not necessarily smart, but you stores lot of information. I see like a walking, talking version of Jeopardy.

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Baltimore being a code word for Black people amiright?

In comment 12289891 Headhunter said:

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Baltimore being a code word for Black people amiright?

Bad-faith mongering isn't critical thinking and doesn't help anything.

But about information, I think that ultimately you need both critical thinking and good information, but imho information without the ability to interpret and apply it doesn't help much. Lies, damn lies, and statistics . . .

In comment 12289773 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Me do.

In comment 12289841 Headhunter said:

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Interesting,what does make you smarter?

Thinking.

just like the last generation was smarter than the generation before that and on and on. Same bullshit over and over, plenty of kids bust their asses to do well, but the kids are dumb crowd has to feel good about itself I guess

what???

In comment 12289899 Montreal Man said:

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In comment 12289841 Headhunter said: Quote: Interesting,what does make you smarter? Thinking.

Lemme amend that. Information makes you more educated. Thinking critically about the material makes you smarter.

It goes without say having access to information and not being able to do anything with it does not make you smarter

In comment 12289788 River Mike said:

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In comment 12289747 BUgiantfan said: Quote: If you can convince people that drinking their own piss is a good idea, you can convince them of anything. I shit you not- people actually do this. I don't remember whether it was Gandhi, Nehru, or some other prominent Indian leader who drank his own urine daily. Perhaps someone with a better memory than I can enlighten us.

Gandhi supposedly did. It's nothing new.

But, you know, these kids, my lawn, blah blah blah.

Can not only make millions off of people watching them, but actually do so over an extended period of time

In comment 12289899 Montreal Man said:

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In comment 12289841 Headhunter said: Quote: Interesting,what does make you smarter? Thinking.

That Gingko Bulaga stuff.

In comment 12289737 Klaatu said:

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:)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...aw-sum!

than ever before, although it is a lot easier to curate it and tailor it to what you want to see.

Kids seem dumber today because with the internet and their cell phones, they all have the ability to broadcast themselves and go viral and get famous for doing stupid, immature, uncivil, horrible, and undeserved things.


But here's one way that kid's today are smarter.

Figure 1: 30 Day Prevalence of Daily Use of Cigarettes, by Grade, 1976-2014

At this very second there a countless numbers of kids from this dumbed downed generation engineering ways for this website to load, faster, smarter and more accurately on thousands of devices and platform combinations, while countless members of this site can't figure out how to close a pop-up ad or not use their bank password on a message board.

And yes, many likeminded kids are engineering ways for Twitter feeds to be consumed in content-managed platforms with less latency, cluttering up your news articles. And then using that same type of API interface technology to seamlessly integrate Google Maps data into your smart phone so you can figure out where the hell you are in midtown Manhattan or the countryside outside Islamabad as equally well.

The integrating that technology into GPS systems so the ambulance en route to your house can target the the quickest route based on crowd sourced information.

I can't believe these fucking kids. How could anyone ever possibly be consumed with the musings of entertainers and also do something productive. Almost as bad as someone reading a sports message board when they are at work when they could be reading Voltaire, or I don't know working.

= sign of the end of Western civilization.

generation but of the majority of Americans.

angst for their failures in teaching youths what is important, or in creating systems where these things are desired.

Quite frankly, this often reeks of 50 year old males lamenting shit because it's different than their preferences, and they are trying to wash away their own failures by blaming newer generations for the ills that they have inherited and not caused.

most kids are working their asses off and they still won't have the opportunities that kids from the preceding generation had.

yatbq - I hear that a lot too, but I struggle to understand what measure shows we're significantly worse off.

Western society has always had low brow entertainment, knowledge gaps between the rich and poor, leaders who exploit the less fortunate.

And yet life expectancy continues to rise, quality of life by many many measures even for the very poor has never been higher.

IMO opinion it's classic friction with change. People love to point out anecdotes like kids can't find Vermont on a map, when there is a device in their pocket that can pinpoint a Pizza Hut in Vermont if they need it.

I can't change a wagon wheel, add the correct portion of lye to water and not burn my skin off when doing laundry, or navigate the Organ trail.

I guess for me the measure is how to live the most healthy, enjoyable free life. Which I don't see in great decline in our society.

There is no real evidence that humans have become more intelligent over time. None. This is true not only for the last generation but the last 10,000 generations.

text to read on news websites. Video content is increasingly becoming the primary delivery format for news organizations. As a consumer of news I prefer to read text. Nearly every article on CNN and Breitbart include a video at the top of it. You have to scroll down to find the text format. ESPN, although its entertainment news does the same.

language is constantly evolving. The English used in the 1700s looked very different from its counterparts from the 20th century and 21st Century.

A lot of sites have "autoplay" now, so you have to wait for the video to load and pause it... that is, if you care enough about the article to wait

while Manny's "who is Ernie Adams?" has like, one or two responses, is a fine example of it.

and more of a "knowledge gap" or especially a "technical knowledge gap", regardless of age.

When average Americans are compared against average European and "Western leaning" Asian countries, the US does very poorly in math and science.

I think the average American has almost no idea how the technology they are increasingly dependent on works.

We have an education problem - especially prevalent at the poorer ends of the spectrum.

Very different than whether we are a dumbed down country because news sites have tweets in news articles.

The way we consume, memorize and store knowledge and what types of knowledge we crave is not a great measure of our collective intelligence.

If were crushing STEM scores top-to-bottom there would be more technology, more tweets, more video in many more, faster, cooler devices.

Efficiency is a symptom of society's success.

These arguments by and large come down to; I don't like the direction things have changed, so therefore the people that have changed them are dumb.

has better context. I'm close to 55.

I'd have to say one of the things that has me SMH is popular music. The musical talent isn't there anymore.
Rarely will young folks ever hear people who are experts at their instruments of choice.

It's all mass-media stuff. Here today, gone tomorrow. Hopefully it turns around soon. It can be classical, rock, jazz or something brand new. Just lets heard some master songwriters and musicians. Please.

In comment 12289845 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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A problem I see with so many news outlets is people can isolate themselves to one way of thinking. A right wing thinker can listen to talk radio, read certain blogs, and watch fox news, and consume all of one view point. The same can be said for left wingers.

IMO, that having all those news outlets is a good thing. Thinking folks can and should listen to right & left viewpoints and draw their own conclusions. I believe by doing that, you may get a more accurate picture of what really happened with that event.

To just plug into one view that you like is done by many and you can tell by speaking with them they are ill-informed and are totally clueless that that's the case.

In comment 12290102 mrvax said:

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has better context. I'm close to 55. I'd have to say one of the things that has me SMH is popular music. The musical talent isn't there anymore. Rarely will young folks ever hear people who are experts at their instruments of choice. It's all mass-media stuff. Here today, gone tomorrow. Hopefully it turns around soon. It can be classical, rock, jazz or something brand new. Just lets heard some master songwriters and musicians. Please.

When was this different?

Hendrix had to open for the Monkees. ABBA dominated record sales for a decade or two.

My home town Endicott NY use to be a great place to
raise your kids . The separation of class is getting to
be two haves and have nots . The Immigration of
downstate city people have created a drug infested
downtrodden Area . Morale values are gone the
poor no matter what race pump out babies and generations
of welfare families and most do not marry . Single moms
no Dad to be found its really gone downhill .
The Good Paying jobs are no longer .

Is this before or after minorities and women were considered property?

Shouldn't it be the "dumbing up" of America?

In comment 12290160 schabadoo said:

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Is this before or after minorities and women were considered property?

Zing!

In comment 12289998 christian said:

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yatbq - I hear that a lot too, but I struggle to understand what measure shows we're significantly worse off. Western society has always had low brow entertainment, knowledge gaps between the rich and poor, leaders who exploit the less fortunate.

What everyone seems to be leaving out in this generational comparison is the insistent, far-reaching effect of the media.

Yes, "low brow" entertainment, for example, was always around, but in today's media culture, it's spread far and wide and faster than ever that in past generations. And what this does, IMO, is spread quickly things like "low brow" entertainment and because of its ubiquity, it becomes perceived to be the accepted standard. I think a case can be made for other aspects of the culture and this media blanketing of everything takes hold and it's usually dumber, cruder and coarser than ever before.

And yet life expectancy continues to rise, quality of life by many many measures even for the very poor has never been higher.

IMO opinion it's classic friction with change. People love to point out anecdotes like kids can't find Vermont on a map, when there is a device in their pocket that can pinpoint a Pizza Hut in Vermont if they need it.

I can't change a wagon wheel, add the correct portion of lye to water and not burn my skin off when doing laundry, or navigate the Organ trail.

I guess for me the measure is how to live the most healthy, enjoyable free life. Which I don't see in great decline in our society. [/quote]

In comment 12290508 Montreal Man said:

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In comment 12289998 christian said: Quote: yatbq - I hear that a lot too, but I struggle to understand what measure shows we're significantly worse off. Western society has always had low brow entertainment, knowledge gaps between the rich and poor, leaders who exploit the less fortunate. What everyone seems to be leaving out in this generational comparison is the insistent, far-reaching effect of the media. Yes, "low brow" entertainment, for example, was always around, but in today's media culture, it's spread far and wide and faster than ever that in past generations. And what this does, IMO, is spread quickly things like "low brow" entertainment and because of its ubiquity, it becomes perceived to be the accepted standard. I think a case can be made for other aspects of the culture and this media blanketing of everything takes hold and it's usually dumber, cruder and coarser than ever before. And yet life expectancy continues to rise, quality of life by many many measures even for the very poor has never been higher. IMO opinion it's classic friction with change. People love to point out anecdotes like kids can't find Vermont on a map, when there is a device in their pocket that can pinpoint a Pizza Hut in Vermont if they need it. I can't change a wagon wheel, add the correct portion of lye to water and not burn my skin off when doing laundry, or navigate the Organ trail. I guess for me the measure is how to live the most healthy, enjoyable free life. Which I don't see in great decline in our society.

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MM, I'm more concerned with the effects of new tech on attention spans and the ability to tolerate non-stimulation of the senses for extended periods of time. Effective goal directed activity requires focus and the ability to tolerate a lack of pleasurable stimulation.

People think unplugging for a day is somehow meditation. It' just how everybody used to live.

How far we've come.

In comment 12289845 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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A problem I see with so many news outlets is people can isolate themselves to one way of thinking. A right wing thinker can listen to talk radio, read certain blogs, and watch fox news, and consume all of one view point. The same can be said for left wingers.

This is an excellent and often overlooked point. People of all stripes, political, religious, conspiratorial, whatever, now have a place to go where the community is exactly like them, that supports each other and brooks no contradictory ideas.

This limited attention span has been the bugbear for years. I was in the middle of it at the Children's Television Workshop when I was writing Electric Company and the occasional Sesame Street episodes. There was a constant battle between those of us who wanted certain educational pieces to go on longer and to create pieces that didn't jump around so much.

The other side (and many of them were Harvard Educators who came in monthly to critique what we had already done) claimed that kids wouldn't stay tuned to an idea for longer than ... and they gave a general number from ten seconds to two minutes.

We writers and producers weren't held to that (there were natural exceptions, like songs, which sustain attention better than language) but if a sketch went over a certain amount of pages, we were encouraged by the in-house educators and "guardians" of the Harvard creed, to trim.

There was a TV movie back in 1991 starring Jessica Tandy. Some of it is sappy melodrama, but it centers around her wanting to do something for the community in her retirement. She stumbles upon Public Access tv and pays them $50 bucks a week to do a show in which she sits in a rocking chair and just reads a story. That's it. No visuals, no production values, just her reading beautifully a story each week. And kids loved it. Tell kids a good story, even four and five year olds, and they will shut up and listen and be using their imaginations as well.

A lot of forces at work on everyone these days. Just don't know what to make of it or how best to deal with it.

In comment 12289854 SwirlingEddie said:

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you can hardly complete a thought before

Agreed. 80HD is an epidemic.

In comment 12290534 Montreal Man said:

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This limited attention span has been the bugbear for years. I was in the middle of it at the Children's Television Workshop when I was writing Electric Company and the occasional Sesame Street episodes. There was a constant battle between those of us who wanted certain educational pieces to go on longer and to create pieces that didn't jump around so much. The other side (and many of them were Harvard Educators who came in monthly to critique what we had already done) claimed that kids wouldn't stay tuned to an idea for longer than ... and they gave a general number from ten seconds to two minutes. We writers and producers weren't held to that (there were natural exceptions, like songs, which sustain attention better than language) but if a sketch went over a certain amount of pages, we were encouraged by the in-house educators and "guardians" of the Harvard creed, to trim. There was a TV movie back in 1991 starring Jessica Tandy. Some of it is sappy melodrama, but it centers around her wanting to do something for the community in her retirement. She stumbles upon Public Access tv and pays them $50 bucks a week to do a show in which she sits in a rocking chair and just reads a story. That's it. No visuals, no production values, just her reading beautifully a story each week. And kids loved it. Tell kids a good story, even four and five year olds, and they will shut up and listen and be using their imaginations as well. A lot of forces at work on everyone these days. Just don't know what to make of it or how best to deal with it.

Glad I read the whole thread before responding because I was just about bring up this exact subject. Thank you for confirming my belief about CTW's influence on short attention spans.

a lot by reading all the posts.

I find that many of you agree with my opinions except I am

way behind and inferior when it comes to today's electronic devises.

to youths dumbing down

In comment 12290646 GMAN4LIFE said:

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to youths dumbing down

I think the biggest indication is the lack of capitalization and punctuation used today...

In comment 12290641 chops said:

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a lot by reading all the posts. I find that many of you agree with my opinions except I am way behind and inferior when it comes to today's electronic devises.

Bless, you Chops. You've seen a hell of a near-century. Stay strong!

Few things are more depressing than the fact that Americans vote for Presidential candidates from the two sides that have the most money and insidious news channels as their mouthpieces.

In New Jersey, where I live, there were 6 names on the Presidential ballot. Despite that, nearly 99% of the votes in NJ went to the Democratic and Republican candidates. The story was similar in other states. Why did this happen? Because these two parties fundraised over a billion dollars each. And how did they spend that money?

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The United States presidential election of 2012 broke new records in financing, fundraising, and negative campaigning. Through grassroots campaign contributions, online donations, and Super PACs, Obama and Romney raised a combined total of more than $2 billion.[82] Super PACs constituted nearly one-fourth of the total financing, with most coming from pro-Romney PACs.[83] Obama raised $690 million through online channels, beating his record of $500 million in 2008.[84] Most of the advertising in the 2012 presidential campaign was decidedly negative—80% of Obama's ads and 84% of Romney's ads were negative.[85]

And the mouthbreathing public (the part of it that votes, anyway) followed the money with their votes like they were buying a fucking Quarter Pounder with cheese. Shameful.


Link - ( New Window )

America isn't getting dumber. At least not faster than the rest of the world.

In comment 12290641 chops said:

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a lot by reading all the posts. I find that many of you agree with my opinions except I am way behind and inferior when it comes to today's electronic devises.

Stay strong, man. You got at least one Giants Super Bowl win to live through.

In comment 12290670 Go Terps said:

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Few things are more depressing than the fact that Americans vote for Presidential candidates from the two sides that have the most money and insidious news channels as their mouthpieces.

This is a change from when?

I'm clicking thru some results--1812, 1880, etc--not seeing the difference. Don't check out 1936, it'll depress you.