As if this was a problem. Game is fucked up in a million ways due to Goodell's meddling. Now this. He is completely incompetent.
Do you think Roger Goodell can just arbitrarily change any rule he wants to? Are you that stupid? Did you miss the part where it says that 75% of the owners - you remember the owners, don't you? They pay Goodell's salary - have to approve the measure?
But I agree that this isn't the best solution to the extra point being too automatic. Narrower goalposts and/or a crossbar across the top of the goal would both make field goals and extra points more difficult.
If you really want to make extra points more interesting, make the player who scored the TD make the kick. That would probably encourage a lot more 2-point conversion tries, which would be less automatic, and therefore more interesting, than the PAT. I'd be okay with that.
I think a change is necessary, but only one very simple one makes sense to me: eliminate the 1 point kick option and leave the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line.
Total scoring will be about the same, but instead of 1200+ nearly automatic (I think 5 extra point kicks failed in 2014 or 2013), you'll now have 1150+ more exciting plays (I think 50 to 70 two point conversions were attempted in 2014 or 2013).
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
RE: I think it really changes the game in a bad way.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
Therein lies the ridiculousness of it. How does that improve overall product? Force teams to throw?
Eliminate the extra point and make everyone go for two if you really want added excitement. This is just assbackwards.
RE: I think it really changes the game in a bad way.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
Mathematically makes it more correct to go for 2 everytime
Not sure narrowing the posts is an option since it arbitrarily reduces scoring, not their end game. And I'd guess the PAT isn't much different in that case (likely a small PAT% decrease, but does 99+% go much under 95% if that?)
I like the 1yd line / TC idea but wonder how much that changes teams going for 2 across the league. It would a little in the numbers but given the old school adage "never take points off the board," I'm not sure coaches jump at that many more 2pt attempts (Maybe NE given Brady's sneak success, but does TC / NYG change much for ex?). Tho it's way better than the 15yd line idea
Make 1 pt attempts drop kick only. That's a great way to bring back a lost art, and keep true to the history of the game. Certainly, Drop Kicks (especially in bad weather) are not automatic!
Those 4-5 percentage points are bigger than you think
A lot of the NFL is slow to adapt, but this is basically the first step in phasing out kickers for the PAT. Wouldn't mind it if there were a reicpricol move for the 2pter, but this skews things much more in favor of going for two everytime unless game conditions dictate otherwise. It'll start with a few teams always going for two (probably the pats being one), then the rest of the NFL will fall in line.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
but does that mean coaches use it? Still close to 100% 1pt vs a 2pt which guessing is at best 60-70%, for top offenses. You're right tho, it'll be a slow evolution if it happens
The one tweak for discussion sake - PAT from the 3yd allowing the fake for 2pt with higher risk. Or set up for 2pt from the 1yd (could go up to 2yd)
Either way almost every suggestion here is better than the 15yd IMO including leaving it as is
RE: Mathematically makes it more correct to go for 2 everytime
And it's not really that close anymore. FYI, almost regardless of the team, it was damn close before.
I think this could make the 2 point conversion attempt the standard and the 15 yard PAT the choice at the end of the game if all you need is one point for the win.
RE: RE: RE: I think it really changes the game in a bad way.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
How many fake PATs have seen in the NFL in your lifetime?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
RE: RE: RE: I think it really changes the game in a bad way.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
How many fake PATs have you seen in the NFL in your lifetime? 2-3?
this really puts into focus the sorry state of the American attention span.
Let me get this straight, so we have to change the game because the PAT is not "exciting" enough? Then every Sunday you will continue to watch hours of brain-cell-killing commercials while drooling into your beer? Does that sum it up?
...for many reasons all mentioned on here already. Mostly though it eliminates the option of a fake. The fact that few are run are besides the point. Now the D can go after the kicker on a harder field goal with no reason at all to stay honest in case of a fake. Because even if run at 15 yards out there is plenty of time to recover. Rarely is there anyone with much speed on the kick unit, while the block unit has a lot of speed.
The only change to the PAT I have ever been supportive of was the suggestion of having the player who scored the TD have to kick it. I think that might actually be fun to watch. Hankins recovers a fumble in the end zone and then is kicking the PAT? Or they can go for 2.
It totally eliminates the surprise two point conversion.
I can't remember a single solitary time I've watched a pro football game and a surprise two-point conversion occurred. I don't watch every game, but I sure as hell watch a lot of football. Can't recall one.
Will go before the DH, as it should be. Wasted outs.
I don't think moving it back makes really any difference so I don't care either way on this move. Like someone posted above theres been maybe 2 or 3 fake PAT's I can remember in my lifetime
id like to thank the Commissioner for recognizing this and fixing it. by Commissioner i mean Tagliabue. by him intially putting the 2pt conversion in place was the 1st step in the right direction.
Make 1 pt attempts drop kick only. That's a great way to bring back a lost art, and keep true to the history of the game. Certainly, Drop Kicks (especially in bad weather) are not automatic!
I haven't tried it, but as I understand it the drop kick went out of favor when the shape of the ball was changed. The ball used to be more spherical, and had a somewhat flatter end. When they made it more elongated, that helped the passing game but made it very hard to drop kick.
I think a change is necessary, but only one very simple one makes sense to me: eliminate the 1 point kick option and leave the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line.
Total scoring will be about the same, but instead of 1200+ nearly automatic (I think 5 extra point kicks failed in 2014 or 2013), you'll now have 1150+ more exciting plays (I think 50 to 70 two point conversions were attempted in 2014 or 2013).
Goodell will ruin this game yet.
I would be on board with a 2 pt conversion from the 2 and an extra point attempt from the 15. I believe there should be an option for a minimum of 3pts if a conversion into the end-zone is successful from the 15. This would add a little more excitement to numerous close games! JMHO.
My god can there ever be an adult discussion on this site
It is a valid point. You say the PAT is "a waste of time". Removing it is only going to get us to the commercial faster.
I guess you haven't ever watched a game televised on the fox network! You know, the network that runs commercials while plays are run, the ones you never see!!!! I have resorted to Fox and more times than I care to remember, the 1st down play ends, commercial and it returned to live action when it was 3rd down.
RE: RE: RE: I think it really changes the game in a bad way.
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
Well, I would assume that if you line for 2, you can't simply dropkick it for 1. But if you line up for 1 from the 15, sure, I'd imagine you could pull something and go for 2.
Is there really any fan backlash over the extra point basically being automatic?
Do you think Roger Goodell can just arbitrarily change any rule he wants to? Are you that stupid? Did you miss the part where it says that 75% of the owners - you remember the owners, don't you? They pay Goodell's salary - have to approve the measure?
If you really want to make extra points more interesting, make the player who scored the TD make the kick. That would probably encourage a lot more 2-point conversion tries, which would be less automatic, and therefore more interesting, than the PAT. I'd be okay with that.
For extra point move it to the 1. TC said tha
Total scoring will be about the same, but instead of 1200+ nearly automatic (I think 5 extra point kicks failed in 2014 or 2013), you'll now have 1150+ more exciting plays (I think 50 to 70 two point conversions were attempted in 2014 or 2013).
Goodell will ruin this game yet.
Therein lies the ridiculousness of it. How does that improve overall product? Force teams to throw?
Eliminate the extra point and make everyone go for two if you really want added excitement. This is just assbackwards.
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
I like the 1yd line / TC idea but wonder how much that changes teams going for 2 across the league. It would a little in the numbers but given the old school adage "never take points off the board," I'm not sure coaches jump at that many more 2pt attempts (Maybe NE given Brady's sneak success, but does TC / NYG change much for ex?). Tho it's way better than the 15yd line idea
Quote:
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
The one tweak for discussion sake - PAT from the 3yd allowing the fake for 2pt with higher risk. Or set up for 2pt from the 1yd (could go up to 2yd)
Either way almost every suggestion here is better than the 15yd IMO including leaving it as is
Quote:
In comment 12290342 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
How many fake PATs have seen in the NFL in your lifetime?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
Quote:
In comment 12290342 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
How many fake PATs have you seen in the NFL in your lifetime? 2-3?
Let me get this straight, so we have to change the game because the PAT is not "exciting" enough? Then every Sunday you will continue to watch hours of brain-cell-killing commercials while drooling into your beer? Does that sum it up?
It is a valid point. You say the PAT is "a waste of time". Removing it is only going to get us to the commercial faster.
The only change to the PAT I have ever been supportive of was the suggestion of having the player who scored the TD have to kick it. I think that might actually be fun to watch. Hankins recovers a fumble in the end zone and then is kicking the PAT? Or they can go for 2.
If something HAD to be done, I would've gone with the idea of all TDs being worth 7 points and you no longer have to kick the EP.
Decisions to go for 2 would either give you 8 points if successful or 6 points if unsuccessful.
I can't remember a single solitary time I've watched a pro football game and a surprise two-point conversion occurred. I don't watch every game, but I sure as hell watch a lot of football. Can't recall one.
The only rule changes I agree with, is for the safety of the players.....
Now, if we can only get rid of the designated hitter, the world will be a better place....
The only rule changes I agree with, is for the safety of the players.....
Now, if we can only get rid of the designated hitter, the world will be a better place....
I'm with you.
I don't think moving it back makes really any difference so I don't care either way on this move. Like someone posted above theres been maybe 2 or 3 fake PAT's I can remember in my lifetime
could be anyone theoretically. The Mets could use it for Newenhuis :-)
this was the 2nd
cant believe people dont want this...
Quote:
Does the DH have to hit for the pitcher, or could you allow your pitcher to hit and let the DH hit for the SS?
.
could be anyone theoretically. The Mets could use it for Newenhuis :-)
You can only DH for the pitcher, no one else.
Or do I have that wrong?
Total scoring will be about the same, but instead of 1200+ nearly automatic (I think 5 extra point kicks failed in 2014 or 2013), you'll now have 1150+ more exciting plays (I think 50 to 70 two point conversions were attempted in 2014 or 2013).
Goodell will ruin this game yet.
I would be on board with a 2 pt conversion from the 2 and an extra point attempt from the 15. I believe there should be an option for a minimum of 3pts if a conversion into the end-zone is successful from the 15. This would add a little more excitement to numerous close games! JMHO.
Quote:
My god can there ever be an adult discussion on this site
It is a valid point. You say the PAT is "a waste of time". Removing it is only going to get us to the commercial faster.
I guess you haven't ever watched a game televised on the fox network! You know, the network that runs commercials while plays are run, the ones you never see!!!! I have resorted to Fox and more times than I care to remember, the 1st down play ends, commercial and it returned to live action when it was 3rd down.
Quote:
In comment 12290342 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Yes, the 1-point kick is automatic, but late in the game depending on the score the ability to convert the 2-point play becomes crucial. And now that is going to have to be from the 15 yard line?
No - PATs would be from the 15. 2 point conversations will be from the 2.
So you have to declare and there is no possibility of deception?
Well, I would assume that if you line for 2, you can't simply dropkick it for 1. But if you line up for 1 from the 15, sure, I'd imagine you could pull something and go for 2.
Doug Flutie's dropkick; first in NFL since 1948
And...check this out!
Pat McAfee hits a 55 yard dropkick FG!.