NFT: NBA Draft Lottery Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:30pm

I'm really hoping two 5-14 teams jump into the top 3 so the Lakers lose their pick to Phoenix.

But who am I kidding. You know damn well the Lakers are getting one of those top 3 guys. I'd kind of like to see New York, Orlando and Phoenix go 1, 2, 3 and I'm not even a Knicks fan. Phoenix would be very interesting with the 3 and 6 picks.

That's what I'd like to see. What I really think it will be: Minnesota, LA, NY. But we'll see.

Top 2 or bust

or league help on the side of the Lakers nowadays, because they don't have either.

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illmatic : 8:45 am : link : reply I'm really hoping two 5-14 teams jump into the top 3 so the Lakers lose their pick to Phoenix. But who am I kidding. You know damn well the Lakers are getting one of those top 3 guys.

It's not top 2 or bust it's Okafor or bust for NY

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could have one of the worst years ever and wind falling outside of the top three picks..

Knicks
Wolves
Phoenix
Phi
Phi (via LA)

Knicks trade #1 for #4 and #5 and grab 2 studs!

goes to the 76ers top 5 protected this year, or top 3 protected next year.

Pretty sure that 76ers get Miami's pick top 10 protected this year.

But honestly it's so hard to figure out who will have the better career out of towns and okafor.

If we get the number one they will really have to do their homework.

As much as I am hoping for a top 4 pick (well, actually first pick in the draft but don't want to be greedy) as a Knick fan, I am fully expecting that the team falls to the fifth spot.

as long as the knicks end up top 2. And i wouldnt even be all that pissed if we ended up with 3. At least at 3 you get your choice of the guards (with a small chance okafor could still be there).

for the Knicks in 15 years. We have the ingredients to re-build- superstar in place, top pick and tons of cap room. After this nightmare of a stretch it would be such a shit burger to get #5. I'd be fine with a top 3 pick and could even live begrudgingly with #4 because we'd still be in position to get an elite guard. I am annoyed at the talk that we might pass on Mudiay because of the triangle. Seriously? If he's as good as many talk about you take him at 4 and worry about the triangle fit later. Phil won titles with Chicago and their Centers being anything but true Centers, and then won a handful of titles in LA with one of the classic NBA Centers of all time. Clearly there is more than one way to win with the triangle.

In comment 12292326 Stu11 said:

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for the Knicks in 15 years. We have the ingredients to re-build- superstar in place, top pick and tons of cap room. After this nightmare of a stretch it would be such a shit burger to get #5. I'd be fine with a top 3 pick and could even live begrudgingly with #4 because we'd still be in position to get an elite guard. I am annoyed at the talk that we might pass on Mudiay because of the triangle. Seriously? If he's as good as many talk about you take him at 4 and worry about the triangle fit later. Phil won titles with Chicago and their Centers being anything but true Centers, and then won a handful of titles in LA with one of the classic NBA Centers of all time. Clearly there is more than one way to win with the triangle.

agree make this pick based of the triangle would be the stupidest thing the knicks could do. Pick who you think will have the best NBA career. Phil could be gone nxt year, who knows

I would hate for them to end up with the #1 pick and for some reason the #2 guy ends up being "the pick" and as fans we spend the next ten plus seasons knowing what could have been.

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just hope we pick top 3. Obviously I want Towns but I wouldn't cry over Mudiay

as the reason why they didn't win a random bingo hall lottery drawing.

In comment 12292343 GiantFilthy said:

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Plz Plz Plz Plz Plz Plz

kidding aside where would you rank Kaminsky? You really would take him #2 overall?

curious to see if Phil is willing to try and go the RFA route knowing the money gets tied up. Middleton would be a pretty sweet get but unlikely.

In comment 12292356 DanMetroMan said:

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kidding aside where would you rank Kaminsky? You really would take him #2 overall?

Nahhh definitely not. I think early teens is a good place for him. He needs to put on weight to handle good offensive centers down low, but he's extremely skilled and fluid. A lot of people call him Brad Miller redux, but that's really lazy. He's a tough guy to make a comparison to. I think a less crazy Rasheed is probably his best case scenario.

In comment 12292362 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12292356 DanMetroMan said: Quote: kidding aside where would you rank Kaminsky? You really would take him #2 overall? Nahhh definitely not. I think early teens is a good place for him. He needs to put on weight to handle good offensive centers down low, but he's extremely skilled and fluid. A lot of people call him Brad Miller redux, but that's really lazy. He's a tough guy to make a comparison to. I think a less crazy Rasheed is probably his best case scenario.

Thanks. Was just curious. I actually like him but he looks like a nice complimentary player on a team with more talent than the Knicks. If our "big 2" after the draft were Melo/Kaminsky... yikes. I will say people are shitting on Brad Miller like the guy was some turd. Brad Miller made more all-star games than MOST players that will be picked this year. Would I love the Knicks drafting Brad Miller at 2 or 3? No obviously not but if you told me the Knicks signed Brad Miller 2.0 in the off-season I'd be really happy.

In comment 12292370 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12292362 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12292356 DanMetroMan said: Quote: kidding aside where would you rank Kaminsky? You really would take him #2 overall? Nahhh definitely not. I think early teens is a good place for him. He needs to put on weight to handle good offensive centers down low, but he's extremely skilled and fluid. A lot of people call him Brad Miller redux, but that's really lazy. He's a tough guy to make a comparison to. I think a less crazy Rasheed is probably his best case scenario. Thanks. Was just curious. I actually like him but he looks like a nice complimentary player on a team with more talent than the Knicks. If our "big 2" after the draft were Melo/Kaminsky... yikes. I will say people are shitting on Brad Miller like the guy was some turd. Brad Miller made more all-star games than MOST players that will be picked this year. Would I love the Knicks drafting Brad Miller at 2 or 3? No obviously not but if you told me the Knicks signed Brad Miller 2.0 in the off-season I'd be really happy.

The Brad Miller comparison is lazy not because Brad is a bad player, but because they're just both white so everyone defaults to him. Frank is far more fluid and skilled offensively.

but I think the top tier is 5 deep. Winslow will be a great pro.

really isn't a Winslow believer. Ranks him 7th overall and thinks he did his best work at the 4 in college a position he won't play in the NBA.

What are the concerns about Russell? I see a top shooter, a great passer, and an unselfish player. Can't claim he's a good defensive guy, but his offensive skills certainly fit the triangle.

know about any of the Euro guys, but I think Winslow can be a good pro. Probably not a superstar, but he has decent enough upside.

is a borderline HOF.

In comment 12292393 yatqb said:

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What are the concerns about Russell? I see a top shooter, a great passer, and an unselfish player. Can't claim he's a good defensive guy, but his offensive skills certainly fit the triangle.

I just don't think he has the athleticism to guard the one or penetrate against other point guards. He's more James Harden than Chris Paul. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing of course...

In comment 12292399 giants#1 said:

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is a borderline HOF.

looked severely exposed in the tourney to the point I think he really hurt his stock barring amazing workouts. I expect Mudiay to go ahead of Russell based on workouts as well.

upside is seemingly maybe the most in the entire draft or close to it but I just can't see the Knicks taking a guy who at minimum is 2 years from helping.

Okafor's crappy FT shooting makes him a massive liability. He's useless in close games because he doesn't play defense.

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In comment 12292413 RB^2 said:

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Okafor's crappy FT shooting makes him a massive liability. He's useless in close games because he doesn't play defense.

Towns is a lock #1 overall barring something truly shocking. SOME question if Okafor is a lock at #2, guess it depends on the team. Knicks reportedly very high on Mudiay.

In comment 12292413 RB^2 said:

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Okafor's crappy FT shooting makes him a massive liability. He's useless in close games because he doesn't play defense.

Less of a liability if they make a rule change this year (which I'm against, hit your effing FTs!).

In comment 12292419 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12292413 RB^2 said: Quote: Okafor's crappy FT shooting makes him a massive liability. He's useless in close games because he doesn't play defense. Towns is a lock #1 overall barring something truly shocking. SOME question if Okafor is a lock at #2, guess it depends on the team. Knicks reportedly very high on Mudiay.

I like a lot of what I hear about Mudiay. You can teach him to shoot, but you can't teach athleticism and BBIQ.

All we need is a top 3 pick and I'm happy.

Okafor - Rich man's Carlos Boozer. Note: a Boozer comparison isn't generally a compliment and for good reason. But to Boozer's good attributes (great hands, polished low post moves, excellent footwork and strength to gain and maintain low post position, ability to finish at the rim w either hand despite not being a dunker), Okafor has these attributes and better than Boozer. Low post passer in the mold of Brad Daugherty. Whether he'll defend and rebound adequately remains to be seen.

Kaminski - slightly bigger, slightly less athletic Gallinari.

Mundiay - Haven't seen anything other than what's available online, but to me he's a lot like Baron Davis.

Russell - you most often hear James Harden, but I don't think he'll ever be that good. I see more of a left handed Carter Williams.

Winslow - a better version of Kahwi Leonard which is a great compliment. Love the kid's strength, competitiveness, defensive ability and transition game. I think he'll be the best player in the draft when all is said and done.

Towns - I struggle with this one in terms of a comparison. Poor man's Garnett? Probably not. Thoughts?

In comment 12292458 Pep22 said:

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Okafor - Rich man's Carlos Boozer. Note: a Boozer comparison isn't generally a compliment and for good reason. But to Boozer's good attributes (great hands, polished low post moves, excellent footwork and strength to gain and maintain low post position, ability to finish at the rim w either hand despite not being a dunker), Okafor has these attributes and better than Boozer. Low post passer in the mold of Brad Daugherty. Whether he'll defend and rebound adequately remains to be seen. Kaminski - slightly bigger, slightly less athletic Gallinari. Mundiay - Haven't seen anything other than what's available online, but to me he's a lot like Baron Davis. Russell - you most often hear James Harden, but I don't think he'll ever be that good. I see more of a left handed Carter Williams. Winslow - a better version of Kahwi Leonard which is a great compliment. Love the kid's strength, competitiveness, defensive ability and transition game. I think he'll be the best player in the draft when all is said and done. Towns - I struggle with this one in terms of a comparison. Poor man's Garnett? Probably not. Thoughts?

If teams thought Winslow would be a better Leonard he'd be 100% in the discussion for #1 overall and I haven't seen ANYONE saying he's on that level.

he'd be THE #1 overall pick.

Kaminsky to Rasheed Wallace is absolutely insane. Not the first time he's done it, but it's an awful comparison

In comment 12292458 Pep22 said:

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Okafor - Rich man's Carlos Boozer. Note: a Boozer comparison isn't generally a compliment and for good reason. But to Boozer's good attributes (great hands, polished low post moves, excellent footwork and strength to gain and maintain low post position, ability to finish at the rim w either hand despite not being a dunker), Okafor has these attributes and better than Boozer. Low post passer in the mold of Brad Daugherty. Whether he'll defend and rebound adequately remains to be seen. Kaminski - slightly bigger, slightly less athletic Gallinari. Mundiay - Haven't seen anything other than what's available online, but to me he's a lot like Baron Davis. Russell - you most often hear James Harden, but I don't think he'll ever be that good. I see more of a left handed Carter Williams. Winslow - a better version of Kahwi Leonard which is a great compliment. Love the kid's strength, competitiveness, defensive ability and transition game. I think he'll be the best player in the draft when all is said and done. Towns - I struggle with this one in terms of a comparison. Poor man's Garnett? Probably not. Thoughts?

No chance on the Gallo comparison. Gallinari is a 3. Frank is a 5. He doesnt have the footspeed to be a 4, nevermind a 3.

In comment 12292468 MookGiants said:

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Kaminsky to Rasheed Wallace is absolutely insane. Not the first time he's done it, but it's an awful comparison

Nah. It's pretty great.

In comment 12292458 Pep22 said:

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Okafor - Rich man's Carlos Boozer. Note: a Boozer comparison isn't generally a compliment and for good reason. But to Boozer's good attributes (great hands, polished low post moves, excellent footwork and strength to gain and maintain low post position, ability to finish at the rim w either hand despite not being a dunker), Okafor has these attributes and better than Boozer. Low post passer in the mold of Brad Daugherty. Whether he'll defend and rebound adequately remains to be seen. Kaminski - slightly bigger, slightly less athletic Gallinari. Mundiay - Haven't seen anything other than what's available online, but to me he's a lot like Baron Davis. Russell - you most often hear James Harden, but I don't think he'll ever be that good. I see more of a left handed Carter Williams. Winslow - a better version of Kahwi Leonard which is a great compliment. Love the kid's strength, competitiveness, defensive ability and transition game. I think he'll be the best player in the draft when all is said and done. Towns - I struggle with this one in terms of a comparison. Poor man's Garnett? Probably not. Thoughts?

Towns seems like his ceiling is a "less crazy Sheed".

goes 1st in this draft. A less crazy Rasheed Wallace is a hall of fame player

notice how well Gallo played down the stretch? Bring back Gallo!!!!

of college/euro to the NBA. I feel like he is wrong most of the time.

As for WInslow ive been saying for weeks that if he can play the 2 he could be a great pro. He would def be 5 for me and maybe 4 depending on workouts. Its a shame that Russell finished so poorly, I was much more excited about him in FEB then i am now.

In comment 12292484 MookGiants said:

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goes 1st in this draft. A less crazy Rasheed Wallace is a hall of fame player

I said that's his best case scenario. It's more about skillset.

In comment 12292497 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12292484 MookGiants said: Quote: goes 1st in this draft. A less crazy Rasheed Wallace is a hall of fame player I said that's his best case scenario. It's more about skillset.

I also said he's a very difficult player to compare. So bottomline is you need to chill the fuck out.

In comment 12292494 Italianju said:

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of college/euro to the NBA. I feel like he is wrong most of the time. As for WInslow ive been saying for weeks that if he can play the 2 he could be a great pro. He would def be 5 for me and maybe 4 depending on workouts. Its a shame that Russell finished so poorly, I was much more excited about him in FEB then i am now.

I'm not against Winslow but "better Leonard" seems pretty crazy to me. Leonard is about to be a clear MAX player and will be 24 next month. Such a player would be going #1 overall over Towns.

Top three pick, please. Please.

impossible to predict how good these guys will be in the pros.

It's a much easier task to find best case scenarios based on height weight specs and skillsets, and seeing if that is a player that makes sense for your team.

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In comment 12292507 Jon in NYC said:

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impossible to predict how good these guys will be in the pros. It's a much easier task to find best case scenarios based on height weight specs and skillsets, and seeing if that is a player that makes sense for your team.

Yeah but wouldn't a player with a "realistic" best case of better Leonard be in the mix for #1 overall and top 3 lock in a "weak" draft? I believe they would be.

comparison is nbadraft.net worthy for how awful it is. No matter which way you slice it it makes absolutely no sense.

for Montrez Harrell is Charles Barkley

In comment 12292518 MookGiants said:

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comparison is nbadraft.net worthy for how awful it is. No matter which way you slice it it makes absolutely no sense.

Well you're wrong, and it's time to give it a rest.

I didn't read that hindu stuff before, but Russell is absolutely nothing like Michael Carter Williams. He certainly could bust, but they play nothing alike.

Indeed, for every executive that questions Russell�s athleticism, there is another that dismisses it as a non-issue. One Eastern Conference exec called athleticism, �the most overvalued attribute in the draft.� Another exec said Russell�s intelligence would make up for any deficiency. One assistant coach cited Warriors guard Stephen Curry. As a rookie, Curry�s defensive issues at the NBA�s summer league terrified Golden State coaches. In time, Curry has developed into a solid defender. And a decent offensive player, too.

Ironically, Russell sees Curry as his closest comparison.

"I don't want to sound like I'm overdoing it since he's the MVP of the league," Russell said. "But when I watch his game, I see myself. The plays he makes, the shots he takes, and passes he makes, I see it before it even happens. I feel like that's what separates me from a lot.�

When asked about his position on the floor, Russell says he is a basketball player. �I can dribble like a point guard and score like a two,� Russell said. But he is clear: Point guard is where he wants to play. He understands the skeptics. Again, nothing new.

�I was always told, if anyone asks, tell them you�re a point guard,� Russell said. �But I�m a do everything type of player. Passing, scoring; I know I have the capability of doing it. Whatever a coach needs. I don�t know if [NBA teams] think I�m a point guard. But I can play it.�

Russell is not expected to go No. 1 next month�that honor is likely to fall to Kentucky�s Karl-Anthony Towns or Duke�s Jahlil Okafor, neither of who appeared at the combine. Russell says he should go first, but he�s OK with falling, so long as he falls to a team he believes is the right fit.

�It would be a blessing to be No. 1 but I want to go somewhere where I know I will stick,� Russell said. �Where I can help build a legacy. If that means going eighth, I�d prefer that, honestly. It may sound [crazy], but I�d rather be a guy who is a superstar for one team than a guy that bounces around.�
Link - ( New Window )

supposedly will only work out for the top 3 teams.

is such a cocky prick.

snother 1st and gamble on Upshaw?
Link - ( New Window )

to bring a little attitude to the court.

In comment 12292531 DanMetroMan said:

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Indeed, for every executive that questions Russell�s athleticism, there is another that dismisses it as a non-issue. One Eastern Conference exec called athleticism, �the most overvalued attribute in the draft.� Another exec said Russell�s intelligence would make up for any deficiency. One assistant coach cited Warriors guard Stephen Curry. As a rookie, Curry�s defensive issues at the NBA�s summer league terrified Golden State coaches. In time, Curry has developed into a solid defender. And a decent offensive player, too. Ironically, Russell sees Curry as his closest comparison. "I don't want to sound like I'm overdoing it since he's the MVP of the league," Russell said. "But when I watch his game, I see myself. The plays he makes, the shots he takes, and passes he makes, I see it before it even happens. I feel like that's what separates me from a lot.� When asked about his position on the floor, Russell says he is a basketball player. �I can dribble like a point guard and score like a two,� Russell said. But he is clear: Point guard is where he wants to play. He understands the skeptics. Again, nothing new. �I was always told, if anyone asks, tell them you�re a point guard,� Russell said. �But I�m a do everything type of player. Passing, scoring; I know I have the capability of doing it. Whatever a coach needs. I don�t know if [NBA teams] think I�m a point guard. But I can play it.� Russell is not expected to go No. 1 next month�that honor is likely to fall to Kentucky�s Karl-Anthony Towns or Duke�s Jahlil Okafor, neither of who appeared at the combine. Russell says he should go first, but he�s OK with falling, so long as he falls to a team he believes is the right fit. �It would be a blessing to be No. 1 but I want to go somewhere where I know I will stick,� Russell said. �Where I can help build a legacy. If that means going eighth, I�d prefer that, honestly. It may sound [crazy], but I�d rather be a guy who is a superstar for one team than a guy that bounces around.� Link - ( New Window )

I love his mindset. I just can't get past how much he struggled against Hollis-Jefferson in the tournament. Hollis-Jefferson is a really good defender so it's not like he couldn't beat some scrub. It just left a bad taste in my mouth about his pro prospects.

In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said:

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is such a cocky prick.

Which is what you want out of your star player, no? Jordan wasn't a cocky prick? Kobe?

Again I don't love Russell as a pro prospect but he has the right mentality for a great player.

In comment 12292552 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said: Quote: is such a cocky prick. Which is what you want out of your star player, no? Jordan wasn't a cocky prick? Kobe? Again I don't love Russell as a pro prospect but he has the right mentality for a great player.

I think it can work both ways. If you back it up, all power to you. But Tim Duncan isn't cocky. He's quietly confident. Both work.

but I'm not sure how likely that is.

And I don't think you need to include the date :P

3 or 4 one of the pgs and 5 who the hell knows

so it would be interesting to see if Phil takes him over Mudiay even if Mudiay's the better prospect. I would hope he just goes BPA, but that choice would be a good litmus test.

Sucks that the Knicks are most likely to pick fourth with the second worst record.

In comment 12292570 bceagle05 said:

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so it would be interesting to see if Phil takes him over Mudiay even if Mudiay's the better prospect. I would hope he just goes BPA, but that choice would be a good litmus test. Sucks that the Knicks are most likely to pick fourth with the second worst record.

Taking a worse player because he fits the system would be a real kick to the nuts. I doubt Phil would do that though.

Absolutely cant stand it!
Nevertheless this year I am hoping LA and NY are 1 and 2 without respect to which team gets the top spot.

or even a 4 that can bang enough. I see him as a Ryan Anderson like player who can stretch defenses on the offensive end and have to be "hidden" on the defensive end.

I think Winslow is a very special player and don't think Leonard is too lofty a comparison. He is physically gifted and wired to be an elite defender plus he will attack the rim on O. I continue to think he's the best player in the draft.

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There are teams who would want Porzingis or Winslow more than the Knicks do--Winslow plays the wrong position. I would trade down to the 7 slot and hope to take Cauley-Stein. If he's already taken, along with Porzinis, well at least I would be getting something extra before taking Winslow.

In comment 12292582 Pep22 said:

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or even a 4 that can bang enough. I see him as a Ryan Anderson like player who can stretch defenses on the offensive end and have to be "hidden" on the defensive end. I think Winslow is a very special player and don't think Leonard is too lofty a comparison. He is physically gifted and wired to be an elite defender plus he will attack the rim on O. I continue to think he's the best player in the draft.

Frank is not bad defensively.

Yes, they are both white.

Probably should have read the thread.

I had no idea the lottery was tonight. I love how fast paced the NBA "offseason" is.

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After speaking with NBA scouts and GMs it's still very possible that Hezonja could end up being taken ahead of both Porzingis and Winslow. But will they draft him without the ability to work him out and interview him? Hezonja probably is stuck in Spain through the rest of the draft process because of his commitments to FC Barcelona. It's going to take a GM who is willing to take a risk to draft him above those two. But he has elite size and athleticism for his position, is a terrific shooter and plays with an intensity that few can match in this draft. "He's crazy," one GM said. "But I think it's a good crazy. The type of crazy confidence that elite players need. If he can keep that competitiveness under control and be patient, he's got a good shot to be one of the two or three best players in this draft in five years. He has that 'it' factor that several guys ahead of him don't."

I love the last part.

In comment 12292596 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12292582 Pep22 said: Quote: or even a 4 that can bang enough. I see him as a Ryan Anderson like player who can stretch defenses on the offensive end and have to be "hidden" on the defensive end. I think Winslow is a very special player and don't think Leonard is too lofty a comparison. He is physically gifted and wired to be an elite defender plus he will attack the rim on O. I continue to think he's the best player in the draft. Frank is not bad defensively.

He's not. He has short arms which bothers some people, but so did Kevin Willis and he had a fine career.

In comment 12292599 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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Yes, they are both white.

If you're looking to make a white-on-white comparison for Frank I'd say you're looking more at a Keith Van Horn type than Ryan Anderson.

Super Mario is Ginobili like?

in attaining the 5th pick in the draft.

:)

in all honesty good luck- better to have better basketball in NY

For a hot minute. I want to see him on the Magic, personally.

Is basically Lebron? A better Kawhi is a top 3-5 player in the NBA, Kawhi is already basically top 15 at worst.

In comment 12292650 Mike in St. Louis said:

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And this is why I don't think the Knicks will get the #1 pick

In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said:

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is such a cocky prick.

Jon if you watched "The Journey" episode on the B1G network that featured Russell you'd be impressed. He had anything but a smooth ride at the private school he went to in highschool to play ball. The coach admitted readily that he rode him harder than just about any player he ever had, day and night. He said that just about any other player he ever had that he did that to would have quit or lashed out. Russell took it quietly and just focused on listening and getting better. seemed like a really well rounded good kid. Being a Terp guy I have no reason to blow smoke up his ass...

I could see either (and maybe both) Euros go before him.

In comment 12292670 Stu11 said:

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In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said: Quote: is such a cocky prick. Jon if you watched "The Journey" episode on the B1G network that featured Russell you'd be impressed. He had anything but a smooth ride at the private school he went to in highschool to play ball. The coach admitted readily that he rode him harder than just about any player he ever had, day and night. He said that just about any other player he ever had that he did that to would have quit or lashed out. Russell took it quietly and just focused on listening and getting better. seemed like a really well rounded good kid. Being a Terp guy I have no reason to blow smoke up his ass...

That's fair. It's always harsh to make broad judgements about someone based on one or two quotes.

That being said, I'm about to contradict myself. The one other quote that really rubbed me the wrong way is when he was asked "who was the best defender you've faced this season." and he responded "nobody." I think that's just a level of disrespect that's completely unnecessary. I just really despite cockiness.

but none of the particular prospects really gets my juices flowing. I guess Im rooting for Towns or Okafor. Okafor is the most exciting -- he could dominate. But he could also suck, and has massive red flags (defense, shooting, soft body).

and a franchise changing player...

Leonard is going to be the face of the Spurs when Duncan retires...

Winslow doesnt have the mid range or versatility on offense that Kawhi does..

His 3 point shot is not even that good...

Leonard is already a top 10 player...

In comment 12292677 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12292670 Stu11 said: Quote: In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said: Quote: is such a cocky prick. Jon if you watched "The Journey" episode on the B1G network that featured Russell you'd be impressed. He had anything but a smooth ride at the private school he went to in highschool to play ball. The coach admitted readily that he rode him harder than just about any player he ever had, day and night. He said that just about any other player he ever had that he did that to would have quit or lashed out. Russell took it quietly and just focused on listening and getting better. seemed like a really well rounded good kid. Being a Terp guy I have no reason to blow smoke up his ass... That's fair. It's always harsh to make broad judgements about someone based on one or two quotes. That being said, I'm about to contradict myself. The one other quote that really rubbed me the wrong way is when he was asked "who was the best defender you've faced this season." and he responded "nobody." I think that's just a level of disrespect that's completely unnecessary. I just really despite cockiness.

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson... and everyone saw it. LOL

Somehow. Kick right in the balls

Okafor is the best player in the draft

In comment 12292689 Deej said:

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but none of the particular prospects really gets my juices flowing. I guess Im rooting for Towns or Okafor. Okafor is the most exciting -- he could dominate. But he could also suck, and has massive red flags (defense, shooting, soft body).

Regarding the last part, he really is getting into shape. Look at the video Vin posted on the Knicks thread. He lost a lot of that baby fat. He looks really good.

but to be fair leonard is in his 4th season and nobody coming out thought he would be anywhere near this good. So its not like you can compare current Winslow to current Leonard. Again im not saying i think winslow will be leonard (or better).

In comment 12292689 Deej said:

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but none of the particular prospects really gets my juices flowing. I guess Im rooting for Towns or Okafor. Okafor is the most exciting -- he could dominate. But he could also suck, and has massive red flags (defense, shooting, soft body).

Every player has their flaws...

Towns potential to be a 2 way player but still has a lot of growing to do in his game..biggest upside but biggest chance to bust...

Okafor is polished offensively i think his worst case is Al Jefferson, he is going to be able to score in the NBA from day 1, the question with him is his conditioning and his defense...

Mudiay no one knows yet..he had times in China where he played very well, he shot the ball well and the NBA players that are playing in China now all rave about him...Question is can he make his jump shot consistent to keep defenses honest and can he be the defensive player he has the potential to be, i actually think he ends up the best player in this draft when all is said and done...

Russell biggest question is his athelticism, can he get into the lane enough to utilize his insane passing ability and BBIQ, his he quick enough to guard PGs int he NBA

Winslow can he develop his shot where he becomes a consistent player and can he play the 2? he was horrible from mid range and was only good from 3 on one side of the court...

In comment 12292696 bxgiants4 said:

Quote:

Somehow. Kick right in the balls Okafor is the best player in the draft

I hope we get one fleeting moment of hope this evening. Let us spend the next month dreaming about Okafor/Towns with Melo and a bundle of money to spend on FAs.

In comment 12292700 Italianju said:

Quote:

but to be fair leonard is in his 4th season and nobody coming out thought he would be anywhere near this good. So its not like you can compare current Winslow to current Leonard. Again im not saying i think winslow will be leonard (or better).

When the guy is saying that he thinks Winslow is a better Leonard now then you can kill him...

In comment 12292697 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 12292689 Deej said: Quote: but none of the particular prospects really gets my juices flowing. I guess Im rooting for Towns or Okafor. Okafor is the most exciting -- he could dominate. But he could also suck, and has massive red flags (defense, shooting, soft body). Regarding the last part, he really is getting into shape. Look at the video Vin posted on the Knicks thread. He lost a lot of that baby fat. He looks really good.

Has it made him quicker laterally? Because that's all I care about.

In comment 12292694 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292677 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12292670 Stu11 said: Quote: In comment 12292536 Jon in NYC said: Quote: is such a cocky prick. Jon if you watched "The Journey" episode on the B1G network that featured Russell you'd be impressed. He had anything but a smooth ride at the private school he went to in highschool to play ball. The coach admitted readily that he rode him harder than just about any player he ever had, day and night. He said that just about any other player he ever had that he did that to would have quit or lashed out. Russell took it quietly and just focused on listening and getting better. seemed like a really well rounded good kid. Being a Terp guy I have no reason to blow smoke up his ass... That's fair. It's always harsh to make broad judgements about someone based on one or two quotes. That being said, I'm about to contradict myself. The one other quote that really rubbed me the wrong way is when he was asked "who was the best defender you've faced this season." and he responded "nobody." I think that's just a level of disrespect that's completely unnecessary. I just really despite cockiness. Rondae Hollis-Jefferson... and everyone saw it. LOL

I know, it was so great. It was literally the next game as soon as he made that quote.

Talk about being humbled.

In comment 12292705 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292696 bxgiants4 said: Quote: Somehow. Kick right in the balls Okafor is the best player in the draft I hope we get one fleeting moment of hope this evening. Let us spend the next month dreaming about Okafor/Towns with Melo and a bundle of money to spend on FAs.

I will be happy with top 3...

In comment 12292702 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Every player has their flaws...

I know that. But these are just particularly unexciting potential #1 overall prospects. Look at #1 overall in the last 20 drafts. Little/big issues aside, none of the 2015 guys goes over at least 13 of them (Iverson, Duncan, Brand, Ming, James, Howard (E. Okafor top NCAA), Oden, Rose, Griffin, Wall, Davis, Wiggins). And who are Towns and Okafor definitely going over? Bennett, Khandi, Bargs, Joe Smith, and Kwame? Though MJ loves him some Kwame. They seem to slot into a group with KMart and Bogut to me.

Maybe Im wrong. Not super exciting.

to 7, 10, or 12 that turns out to be way better than his slot.

that looked at Marc Gasol's draft profile and saw similarities to Okafor.

Some choice parts

Quote:

Gasol must improve upon his conditioning to improve his lateral quickness and pick-and-roll defense to avoid becoming a defensive liability moving forward.

Quote:

As we previously wrote, he often allows smaller defenders to shoot over him and lacks lateral quickness - both of which usually equate to subpar defense. Gasol also tends to play lackadaisically off the ball, rarely knocking down cutters and looking to aggressively box out on when shots goo up. If he improves on his work ethic and hustle, we should see him develop into a respectable NBA defender - particularly if he increases his tenacity against more athletic players.

This isn't to say that Okafor will become the defensive player that Marc Gasol has become, but rather that Gasol's pre-draft concerns are similar to that of OKafor's and he was able to improve that area of his game.
http://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/35f8rs/reading_marc_gasols_scouting_report_from_the_2007/ - ( New Window )

Mudiay would be my pick there. His shooting worries people but he has Pippen like physical ability. He could be a shutdown defender from the 1 through 3 slots. The limited video suggests he has elite upside as a transition attacker. There is risk with him but frankly there is risk with all these guys. Towns is a safe bet to be a good pro but imo has limited upside. Okafor hasn't defended well and is a brick at the line. Russell can shoot the lights out but does he have the AA to truly thrive in the NBA.

If we land a top 2 pick I understand we need to go with one of the bigs. I have Towns ahead of Okafor. But if the hunch pans out it could be a blessing in disguise because imo Mudiay has the highest ceiling in this draft.

In comment 12292771 Torrag said:

Quote:

Mudiay would be my pick there. His shooting worries people but he has Pippen like physical ability. He could be a shutdown defender from the 1 through 3 slots. The limited video suggests he has elite upside as a transition attacker. There is risk with him but frankly there is risk with all these guys. Towns is a safe bet to be a good pro but imo has limited upside. Okafor hasn't defended well and is a brick at the line. Russell can shoot the lights out but does he have the AA to truly thrive in the NBA. If we land a top 2 pick I understand we need to go with one of the bigs. I have Towns ahead of Okafor. But if the hunch pans out it could be a blessing in disguise because imo Mudiay has the highest ceiling in this draft.

I agree with everything except the limited upside for Towns, i think that is his best quality is his potential and upside...Do not look what he did at Kentucky, he was used in a specific role and that is it....

I agree about Mudiay i think he ends up being the best player out of this draft...

how can anyone on here formulate a real opinion on Mudiay at this point?

I've said that all along - I don't know what anyone on here is basing their opinion of Mudiay on.

all you can really go on are the reports from China and his measureables and athletic skills. There is nothing else to base any opinion of him on. It's similar to evaluating any European/Asian player, except he played his HS ball here.

his shooting is poor. The one thing that triangle guys should have is a good shot.

me about him is people continually spelling his last name wrong. It's MUDIAY! :-D

is drafting AA and upside over "knows how to play and produces."

In comment 12292809 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

is drafting AA and upside over "knows how to play and produces."

Tell that to OKC and Russell Westbrook.

In comment 12292782 MookGiants said:

Quote:

how can anyone on here formulate a real opinion on Mudiay at this point?

You know why i love Mudiay?

Think about it this way this draft pick is going to be asked to come in and start and play right away in a big City with loads of pressure on them to play well right away...

Mudiay instead of going to college went overseas to China because he wanted to take care of his family and played well before he got hurt and we heard no crying about being over there wishing he came back home...Then he is asked to come back after not playing for 3 months and save them being down 0-2 and leads them to a game 3 win after not playing for 3 months...

You know what this tells me? Kid doesnt let pressure get to him, he could of went over there collected a check and sat out the rest of teh season so he didnt get hurt more and said ehh screew it, instead kid comes back from injury and leads the team to a victory...

Tells me this kid is mature for his age, doesnt worry about the pressure to lead and i dont think the NEw York media is going to get to this kid...

Plus from you do see of him the kid can play, i think his biggest weakness his jumper and he really did not shoot terribly when he played...

Is a lot of it reading scouting reports and not a ton of film? absolutely..

In comment 12292806 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

me about him is people continually spelling his last name wrong. It's MUDIAY! :-D

Ah, spelling. How's his shooting?

In comment 12292809 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

is drafting AA and upside over "knows how to play and produces."

So the player that produces in college is usually the best player in the NBA?

In comment 12292822 yatqb said:

Quote:

In comment 12292806 EricNY33 said: Quote: me about him is people continually spelling his last name wrong. It's MUDIAY! :-D Ah, spelling. How's his shooting?

15 attempts a game

47% from 2

3 3's attempted per game

35%

Averaged 18 6 6 and 2 with 3 turnovers a game..

In comment 12292782 MookGiants said:

Quote:

how can anyone on here formulate a real opinion on Mudiay at this point?

youtube, chad ford, draftexpress, and many other sources of 2nd hand feedback. so the answer is... nobody here has a remotely original opinion on Mudiay- the college guys yes- as we have all seen them play quite a bit

over the past 30 years... 3, maybe? The Knicks aren't taking Mudiay over Towns or Okafor. Considering all the reports about their adherence to the triangle, I doubt they take Mudiay over Russell either.

In comment 12292809 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

is drafting AA and upside over "knows how to play and produces."

That's not true. There's a certain threshold of athleticism a player needs to meet in order for it not to be a weakness. It goes vice versa as well. See Otto Porter for the first, Stromile Swift for the second.

That said, there seems to be 4 premium talents in this draft. Let's hope the Knicks get a top 4 pick. As long as pick 5 goes and it's not the Knicks, I'm happy.

In comment 12292832 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

over the past 30 years... 3, maybe? The Knicks aren't taking Mudiay over Towns or Okafor. Considering all the reports about their adherence to the triangle, I doubt they take Mudiay over Russell either.

I dont think anyone said they would take Mudiay over towns or okafor...

So that is good.

I have an odd concern about him. In his pros and cons video at Draft Express, he reacts VERY slowly on defense. And since he's got a post up offensive game, its entirely possible that the game is way, way too fast for him. Also, during the tournament I just couldnt stand watching him on defense because he defaulted to this really weird body position -- almost straight legged with like a 30 degree bend at the waist. It was unnatural.

My tournament take on Russell is that he jumps too slow (i.e. long and labored takeoff time) and too low. Did he do the athletic drills at the combine?

In comment 12292837 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292832 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: over the past 30 years... 3, maybe? The Knicks aren't taking Mudiay over Towns or Okafor. Considering all the reports about their adherence to the triangle, I doubt they take Mudiay over Russell either. I dont think anyone said they would take Mudiay over towns or okafor...

Several people said they think Mudiay turns out to be the best player in the draft.

Can't wait to hear the media and non-Knick fans claim shenanigans by the NBA

Just like they did in the Ewing draft:)

In comment 12292713 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292697 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 12292689 Deej said: Quote: but none of the particular prospects really gets my juices flowing. I guess Im rooting for Towns or Okafor. Okafor is the most exciting -- he could dominate. But he could also suck, and has massive red flags (defense, shooting, soft body). Regarding the last part, he really is getting into shape. Look at the video Vin posted on the Knicks thread. He lost a lot of that baby fat. He looks really good. Has it made him quicker laterally? Because that's all I care about.

I guess Phil and Co. will find out when they work him out

He'd be exposed badly. Post up, he isn't bad, but he's no body knocker.

In comment 12292844 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292837 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12292832 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: over the past 30 years... 3, maybe? The Knicks aren't taking Mudiay over Towns or Okafor. Considering all the reports about their adherence to the triangle, I doubt they take Mudiay over Russell either. I dont think anyone said they would take Mudiay over towns or okafor... Several people said they think Mudiay turns out to be the best player in the draft.

Doesn't mean they take him over towns or Okafor

I said I think Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft yet I also said if your 1 or 2 your going big 3 or 4 your going one of the guards

Just because I think he is going to end up the best player doesn't mean you take him over one of the bigs....

All I'm saying is I think Mudiay surprises a lot of people when all is said and done

If not, that's how you end up taking a center over Kevin Durant.

In comment 12292844 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292837 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12292832 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: over the past 30 years... 3, maybe? The Knicks aren't taking Mudiay over Towns or Okafor. Considering all the reports about their adherence to the triangle, I doubt they take Mudiay over Russell either. I dont think anyone said they would take Mudiay over towns or okafor... Several people said they think Mudiay turns out to be the best player in the draft.

People have said the same thing about Porzingis, Herzonja and Towns. Funny enough, I haven't heard anyone say that about Okafor, despite the label of being the most polished offensive big man to come out in a long time and drawing so many comparisons to Tim Duncan (which I never understood).

In comment 12292859 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

If not, that's how you end up taking a center over Kevin Durant.

First off no one was taking durant over oden...

No one is taking Mudiay over towns or okafor to much risk just as much as people think he could end up being the best player there is just as much a chance if him being a complete bust

The 2 bigs in this draft are safer picks that's why they ho ahead of mudiay

In comment 12292864 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292859 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: If not, that's how you end up taking a center over Kevin Durant. First off no one was taking durant over oden... No one is taking Mudiay over towns or okafor to much risk just as much as people think he could end up being the best player there is just as much a chance if him being a complete bust The 2 bigs in this draft are safer picks that's why they ho ahead of mudiay

Not true. Ask Dan. I wanted Durant over Oden.

�I�ve always been a Knicks fan,� Towns, 19, told Yahoo Sports in a phone interview.


While being selected by the Knicks would be a childhood dream for Towns, he says he is open-minded about any team drafting him.

�It would be an honor and a privilege to play for the Knicks organization,� Towns said. �But wherever the chips fall, the chips fall. I just can�t wait to play basketball at the next level.�

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12292875 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292864 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12292859 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: If not, that's how you end up taking a center over Kevin Durant. First off no one was taking durant over oden... No one is taking Mudiay over towns or okafor to much risk just as much as people think he could end up being the best player there is just as much a chance if him being a complete bust The 2 bigs in this draft are safer picks that's why they ho ahead of mudiay Not true. Ask Dan. I wanted Durant over Oden.

Well i didnt mean the smart people on BBi Eric, i meant NBA people...

In comment 12292877 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

�I�ve always been a Knicks fan,� Towns, 19, told Yahoo Sports in a phone interview. While being selected by the Knicks would be a childhood dream for Towns, he says he is open-minded about any team drafting him. �It would be an honor and a privilege to play for the Knicks organization,� Towns said. �But wherever the chips fall, the chips fall. I just can�t wait to play basketball at the next level.� Link - ( New Window )

Which means it's DEFINITELY not happening now.

In comment 12292877 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

�I�ve always been a Knicks fan,� Towns, 19, told Yahoo Sports in a phone interview. While being selected by the Knicks would be a childhood dream for Towns, he says he is open-minded about any team drafting him. �It would be an honor and a privilege to play for the Knicks organization,� Towns said. �But wherever the chips fall, the chips fall. I just can�t wait to play basketball at the next level.� Link - ( New Window )

Steph Curry redux

predict the Knicks will select 3rd and take Russell.

My prediction is pretty boring. #2 pick and they draft Okafor.

but I have a bad feeling it's going to be them.

Towns is a great prospect. He's so complete. But there's just an intangible star quality that he seems to lack. I don't know if he has the ability to eventually carry a franchise like #1 picks should have. I think WCS really made Towns look a lot better than he is on Defense. Although Towns is more complete than Okafor, I can definitely see that superstar potential in Okafor if things go right.

WCS is the most intriguing player in this draft by a mile for me. Really wonder how his career turns out.

and we will select Karl-Anthony Towns

and if the answer is the right one, he would be right back up with Towns in terms of upside:

1) How much does his better conditioning/lower wight enhance his defensive skills; and

2) How much of his emphasis on offense was under orders from his coach to do everything he could to dominate there?

The other question, of course, is wtf didn't he get in better shape while playing in college? Maybe that relates in part to being such a young big--baby fat.

the Knicks will get the #1 overall pick and right before the draft Dolan will fire Phil and name Isiah as GM, thus infuriating the fan base so that it won't matter who they pick #1 overall.

That doesn't thrill me the way it would've a few months ago, but Russell has size, passing ability and shooting ability that make him a perfect triangle fit. He may be a better player for us than he would be elsewhere. His flair and cockiness would be added bonuses - the Knicks could use a little of both.

.

In comment 12292931 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

.

Can you give us the actual scenario how the Knicks got the 5th pick and i bet you, you cant

I predict 2nd pick and still get Towns, how? Philly gets 1 and selects Russell...

In comment 12292925 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

the Knicks will get the #1 overall pick and right before the draft Dolan will fire Phil and name Isiah as GM, thus infuriating the fan base so that it won't matter who they pick #1 overall.

Thanks for your thoughts Mr. Isola.

In comment 12292942 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292925 EricNY33 said: Quote: the Knicks will get the #1 overall pick and right before the draft Dolan will fire Phil and name Isiah as GM, thus infuriating the fan base so that it won't matter who they pick #1 overall. Thanks for your thoughts Mr. Isola.

LOL

I'm just havin some fun.

Seriously... I predict they will get the #2 pick. Not sure who they take.

In comment 12292948 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292942 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: In comment 12292925 EricNY33 said: Quote: the Knicks will get the #1 overall pick and right before the draft Dolan will fire Phil and name Isiah as GM, thus infuriating the fan base so that it won't matter who they pick #1 overall. Thanks for your thoughts Mr. Isola. LOL I'm just havin some fun. Seriously... I predict they will get the #2 pick. Not sure who they take.

Don't be surprised when Isola uses you as his source for an article tomorrow.

I wish I could be more positive, but I think the Knicks are going to get screwed. However, I think the 4th/5th best players in this draft are really good players. I have the feeling that the Lakers are going to get the first pick.

He's not a franchise player, but he'd be a really nice complementary piece if we were to sign some nice FAs. Perhaps not as 5th pick, but a trade where we take one of the Europeans and a team a few spots down takes him and the trade is announced after the round.

In comment 12292937 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292931 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Can you give us the actual scenario how the Knicks got the 5th pick and i bet you, you cant I predict 2nd pick and still get Towns, how? Philly gets 1 and selects Russell...

If neither Philly, the Knicks, or the Wolves get a top 3 pick the Knicks pick fifth, IIRC.

Can the Knicks actually trade their pick on or before draft night if they are getting another pick in the same draft or do they have to actually draft a player in their draft slot and then trade him?

In comment 12292966 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 12292937 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12292931 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Can you give us the actual scenario how the Knicks got the 5th pick and i bet you, you cant I predict 2nd pick and still get Towns, how? Philly gets 1 and selects Russell... If neither Philly, the Knicks, or the Wolves get a top 3 pick the Knicks pick fifth, IIRC.

That is incorrect...

Only way for the Knicks to get the 5th pick is if 2 teams outside of the top 3 jump into the top 3 AND Minnesota has to be the team bounced out of the top 3 along with the Knicks for the Knicks to get 5...

If 2 teams jump into the top 3 and Minnesota is still in the top 3 Knicks get 4...

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 3m3 minutes ago
Every year I play our Lottery Mock Draft one time for a lottery night prediction. Here was the result:

Quote:

That is incorrect... Only way for the Knicks to get the 5th pick is if 2 teams outside of the top 3 jump into the top 3 AND Minnesota has to be the team bounced out of the top 3 along with the Knicks for the Knicks to get 5...

So you are saying if neither Philly, the Knicks, or the Wolves get a top 3 pick the Knicks pick fifth?

In comment 12292993 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: That is incorrect... Only way for the Knicks to get the 5th pick is if 2 teams outside of the top 3 jump into the top 3 AND Minnesota has to be the team bounced out of the top 3 along with the Knicks for the Knicks to get 5... So you are saying if neither Philly, the Knicks, or the Wolves get a top 3 pick the Knicks pick fifth?

No because if Philly is the team that drops out of the top 3 with the Knicks, the Knicks get 4

.

Quote:

If the Knicks do win the #1 pick mfsd : 1:02 pm : link : reply Can't wait to hear the media and non-Knick fans claim shenanigans by the NBA Just like they did in the Ewing draft:)

It's been 30 years and Knicks have been on the bottom for those 30. Everyone should hope the Knicks get it.

I am so confused as to how they perform this shit. It literally is more complicated than a NASA mission. Was so much easier 30 years ago when They just rolled a bunch of envelopes around in a bin and Stern picked them out...Of course knowing the the frozen one with the Knicks logo inside was to be given the #1 pick :-)

.

In comment 12293046 Stu11 said:

Quote:

I am so confused as to how they perform this shit. It literally is more complicated than a NASA mission. Was so much easier 30 years ago when They just rolled a bunch of envelopes around in a bin and Stern picked them out...Of course knowing the the frozen one with the Knicks logo inside was to be given the #1 pick :-)

Its pretty simple...

The top 3 are done by a lottery drawing and each team has a specific number of ping pong balls, so basically each team has a percentage for them getting 1 2 or 3 and then 4 through 14 are done by record...

So basically the top 3 is drawn if its Minnesota new York and Philly in the top 3 in any order...4-14 is going to stay the same nothing will change...

Say Lakers jump into the top 3 and kick Philly out...

Philly would go to 4 then 5-14 would be the same...

Say Orlando jumps in and Knicks are kicked out

Knicks go to 4 Lakers go to 5 and 6-14 stays the same...

say Sacramento and Orlando jump in and Knicks and philly are kicked out

Knicks go to 4 Philly to 5 Lakers to 6 and 7-14 stays the same...

So when they are announcing the Picks and say it goes like this

14 OKC
13 Phoenix
12 Miami

That means 2 teams jumped into the top 3 because Miami drop 2 spots...

just realized it's possible Jamal Crawford could end up having a 20 year NBA career and at minimum should be good for 16 or so. WOW.

So as a Knick Fan we want all the picks to go as chalk all the way up. That means we are at 2 or 1 correct?

In comment 12293017 #10* said:

Quote:

Quote: If the Knicks do win the #1 pick mfsd : 1:02 pm : link : reply Can't wait to hear the media and non-Knick fans claim shenanigans by the NBA Just like they did in the Ewing draft:) It's been 30 years and Knicks have been on the bottom for those 30. Everyone should hope the Knicks get it.

It has been 30 years, but the Knicks have NOT been on the bottom for all 30.

In comment 12293075 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

So as a Knick Fan we want all the picks to go as chalk all the way up. That means we are at 2 or 1 correct?

If 4-14 stays the same...that means Knicks are at least picking 3....

The #1 pick

.

be rooting for the Lakers to fall to 6 and lose their pick...IF that is the case 2 teams jumped into the lottery...

In comment 12293086 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

.

Bwahaha. The filthy household will definitely be a happy one

Vin won't make it home safely tonight...

In comment 12293102 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

Vin won't make it home safely tonight...

That's not nice :(

Quote:

Thanks for clarifying Carl in CT : 2:57 pm : link : reply So as a Knick Fan we want all the picks to go as chalk all the way up. That means we are at 2 or 1 correct?

Correct. And whichever of those top two picks the Knicks don't get the NBA just gives to Cleveland.

The Knicks abilities to trade the pick. Can they do it in draft night? Do they have to pick a player before trading?

In comment 12293124 GMEN46 said:

Quote:

The Knicks abilities to trade the pick. Can they do it in draft night? Do they have to pick a player before trading?

They would have to pick a player.

I can't believe some miracle will eclipse James Dolan and this black cloud.

I hope I'm wrong.

.

.

cool tool to play around with and see what the different odds are for different scenarios, including compound events (involving multiple teams).

Here is the Reddit post that describes what it can do with a link to probability charts.
http://www.lotterybucket.com/ - ( New Window )

The NBA just seems more fun when they're both in contention

And choose Russell

In comment 12293164 Vin R said:

Quote:

The NBA just seems more fun when they're both in contention

I think that is almost a sure thing. The fix is in.

Why haven't they won or even moved up in the last 30 years?

That is why a small market team like the cavs has randomly won it many times

He Spurs won the Duncan lottery

The nets got shat on missing John wall- and so on and so on

The most interesting thing will be if the sixers win given towns is the top guy on most boards- there could be some interesting moves

8:30.

830

is that 7:30

The lottery is at 8:30

4 teams have already called the knicks asking if they would be interested in a trade....teams outside the lottery

Was just going to ask when this actually starts.

Are they just giving the lottery slots for the bottom teams tonight and the rest of league another night? Does the draft actually happen tonight for all teams?

Damn, the f'n Knicks still have the power to pull me in after year's of Dolan's shit. I hate the bastard but would love to have a team worth rooting for again.

Pick in Chad Fords simulator. I did it over 100 times & they never picked higher then 4th.

In comment 12293426 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

Pick in Chad Fords simulator. I did it over 100 times & they never picked higher then 4th.

Did you really do it 100 times?

Seeing as they have about a 20% chance, that's damn near impossible that they didnt get once in 100 times.

Hope for the best.

If anyone here really believes we are gonna get the #1 pick after all our years of misery, then i have a bridge to sell you tomorrow... i would be shocked if we dont end up with #5.. Just saying.. you know how unlucky the Knicks have been.. just par for the course!!!!!!

end up 3rd just so we can stress over it for the next few weeks.

It's like a Rube Goldberg machine.

Knicks slipped past #5 and get the 14th.

Ugh

like it was yesterday when they got their last big pick in Ewing. The Knicks really deserve a break and I just hope they don't sink below #2. That would be just hard to have to swallow.

shows of any kind are completely worthless. Just do the fucking lottery

1/2 hour out of it. Blah, blah, blah. Like the NFL draft, soon to be held on 7 consecutive days, one for each pick.

Start the lottery at 9pm

In comment 12293451 MookGiants said:

Quote:

shows of any kind are completely worthless. Just do the fucking lottery

Agreed.

Mazing that they have pre-game for this nonsense

Probably a little over that. Once I did it 20 times & we never got higher then 4 I had to keep trying until we got 1 or 2. It never happened.

Riveting.

myself into any of the top 4. Just dont fall to 5th.

.

.

and how can they change their teams fortunes tonight? are these real fucking questions

Than Okafor. Looks like Okafor got him. I'll be happy with any of them.

.

instead of playing a year at the collegiate level? Grade? Money?

fuckers..

In comment 12293470 nyjuggernaut2 said:

Quote:

instead of playing a year at the collegiate level? Grade? Money?

Good chance he wasn't going to be eligible to play college

.

come on

go

WOW

.

.

fucking A. Cursed.

It's all Steve Mills fault!!!

.

.

LMAO

Knicks gonna Knicks

.

this is fucking bullshit

They're cursed, there's just no two ways about it.

maybe blessing in disquise...grab one of the PG

Good thing Fisher had the scrubs playing balls to the wall going from 1st to 2nd.

And of course Lakers have some luck.

Fuck the NBA. Worst professional sport by far

I will never see anything good in my lifetime done by the Knicks

Being a Knicks fan is always heartbreak after heartbreak. Fuck this.

we obviously tank.

.

I fucking hate rooting for this team.

for us. Screwed again.

I'd be happy with a shot at Mudiay or Russell. Be glad it wasn't the fifth pick with this miserable piece of shit franchise.

Any doubt the Lakers get #1?

.

!! Top 3 pick and sign Jimmy Butler!!

Meshing with the fix in for the Lakers.

yet believable at the same time.

Fucking bullshit.

Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein.

F them.

!

In comment 12293461 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

myself into any of the top 4. Just dont fall to 5th.

Figures.

hard to stay enthused about this team

Fisher should be fired for not tanking at the end of the season. He had one job to do and couldnt do it

Can't do anything but laugh. The Knicks are fucked forever.

.

In comment 12293511 Deej said:

Quote:

Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein.

No chance.

We'll get Mudiay.

I'm throwing my remote

Literally, the worst luck ever.

I can't believe we sat through last season's abortion for the 4th pick.

lottery from what, the 9th position? And knicks go from 2nd to 4th

would be a horrific pick, beyond words how bad it would be.

In comment 12293517 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Can't do anything but laugh. The Knicks are fucked forever.

They still can get Russell. Who Phil probably likes any way

so I was hoping for # 1 to grab Towns.

Could be fixed now for Lakers...

so it was worth it

In comment 12293519 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 12293511 Deej said: Quote: Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein. No chance. We'll get Mudiay.

We should get Mudiay. I have no confidence that we'll make the right pick.

So won't Minny. NYK and Phil will get guards.

Biggest hoax and waste of time in all 4 sportswriter can't the worse teams just pick first

EFF ME

Fucking joke this is

get Russell by default.

Towns to Twolves. They can be scary good in a few years.

will end up with the last 3 players taken #1 overall because of the Love trade, right?

I'm happy.

Also the Lakers are getting Okafor which makes me very very happy.

To rebuild quicker than the Knicks. What a fucking travesty

.

if there's no draft?

But it doesn't matter that we won those meaningless games at the end of the season because of the lottery format, right?

This franchise fucking blows.

That would a continuation of our luck

James Dolan might be proof that they exist.

In comment 12293525 Rflairr said:

Quote:

In comment 12293517 arcarsenal said: Quote: Can't do anything but laugh. The Knicks are fucked forever. They still can get Russell. Who Phil probably likes any way

I'd be shocked if Okafor, Towns and Russell weren't taken 1-3

to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck.

I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference.

How do you feel now? Idiots

.

Welcome to New York, Emmanuel Mudiay

.

In comment 12293546 MookGiants said:

Quote:

to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots

this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability.

Could of been 5

Towns Okafor Russell will go top 3

Knicks looking at mudiay Winslow porzingas or henzonja

Outside of towns, picks 2-5 are similar value IMO.

If this team sucked like it did for most of the year, we would've gotten the #1 overall pick. I know, butterfly effect and all that shit, but fuck me. Knicks can't even tank right.

Mudiay? Trade down for Kaminsky or Cauley Stein? If Russell is there I'd grab him.

it was almost predictable. Beyond sad.

Do it, Karl.

In comment 12293550 BeerFridge said:

Quote:

In comment 12293546 MookGiants said: Quote: to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability.

It's just an emotional lash out.

.

In comment 12293553 Metnut said:

Quote:

Outside of towns, picks 2-5 are similar value IMO.

false, its towns okafor in that first group

.

That team should never be allowed in the lottery again...

In comment 12293554 Anakim said:

Quote:

If this team sucked like it did for most of the year, we would've gotten the #1 overall pick. I know, butterfly effect and all that shit, but fuck me. Knicks can't even tank right.

They could've tanked right and still not gotten the pick. That's usually what happens.

In comment 12293565 bw in dc said:

Quote:

That team should never be allowed in the lottery again...

Yeah, I expect we'll be left with Mudiay or a trade. Damn.

In comment 12293511 Deej said:

Quote:

Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein.

Dear God. That would suck major balls.

In comment 12293566 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 12293554 Anakim said: Quote: If this team sucked like it did for most of the year, we would've gotten the #1 overall pick. I know, butterfly effect and all that shit, but fuck me. Knicks can't even tank right. They could've tanked right and still not gotten the pick. That's usually what happens.

Except this time, where the team with the worst record got the #1 overall pick.

I don't understand people pretending like record doesn't matter when it comes to the lottery format. Of course it fucking does.

Also, kudos to the NBA. Last 5 #1s go to Clev X3, New Orleans, and Minnesota. Great for revenues.

I wonder if any of the top 4 will tell Minnesota not to take them. I expect at least one to do it.

In comment 12293550 BeerFridge said:

Quote:

In comment 12293546 MookGiants said: Quote: to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability.

I'm not sure how that's the case, considering that the team that finished last won the 1st pick. He's saying if the Knicks hadn't finished "strong" they would have had the Twolves' position and gotten the first pick.

In comment 12293493 Joey from GlenCove said:

Quote:

this is fucking bullshit

Nope. Just karma for the Knicks.

FRANCHISE IS FINISHED.

In comment 12293571 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 12293550 BeerFridge said: Quote: In comment 12293546 MookGiants said: Quote: to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability. I'm not sure how that's the case, considering that the team that finished last won the 1st pick. He's saying if the Knicks hadn't finished "strong" they would have had the Twolves' position and gotten the first pick.

The team that finishes last has a 25% chance. Nothing is guaranteed. And historically, the team that finishes last usually doesn't get the first pick. Assuming the same thing would've happened if the Knicks had the 25% chance is silly.

next year with both rookies.
they will be much improved - which is a positive given they shove them down our thoughts with prime time games.

knicks have a lot of options, just not the one they wanted.
i have no sympathy- nets were historically bad, didnt even try and tank just flat sucked, and didnt get wall.

Fucking brutal.

And build around him.

No need to go guard in the draft when Alexey Shved can come back.

Great job. Isiah Thomas couldn't have f'ed this up more

and the Knicks get screwed again.

would fuck us over. Can't catch a fucking break.

In comment 12293580 Shirk130 said:

Quote:

and the Knicks get screwed again.

???
the knicks had the worst roster in NBA history with their trades.... they tanked as hard or harder then anyone.

Lakers end up 2nd and the Knicks 4th?

and 15+ years of horrible management "screwed again."

Every bit of the Knicks sucking is and still is their own fault.

could be a dark horse for a top 3 pick and "won't slide past #5." Philly will be a sure bet to take Russell. Minny will take KAT. I mean, would the Lakers really take Porzingis over Okafor? If they do, Okafor would fall to #4 to the Knicks, but I doubt it'll happen. Probably Fraschilla blowing smoke.



Fucked by Minnesota...AGAIN. You fucks had to take Rubio AND Flynn, so that the Warriors could take Steph Curry and now you take our fucking spot. Fuck the Timberwolves.

They have been sensitive about the subject ever since we got Ewing.

If we were a small market,or had the biggest star in the NBA,than we might get a few number one picks.

normally when BBI overreacts to trade, signing or draft pick regarding NY teams they are usually wrong and those players often end up succeeding.

Especially when Mook overreacts, so I'm excited to see what the Knicks do.

In comment 12293562 Joey from GlenCove said:

Quote:

In comment 12293553 Metnut said: Quote: Outside of towns, picks 2-5 are similar value IMO. false, its towns okafor in that first group

False. Okafor is a bust in the making. Hopefully he gets taken before #4. I saw him get abused, routinely, on D by also ran college bigs. Will get eaten alive in the NBA.

the west is stacked and they just got the top two picks. how does that make sense?

Knicks didn't. Nobody tanked harder than Minny. They did exactly what the lottery is supposed to keep teams from doing, and were rewarded.

But a lot of people like Mudiay. I've seen comparisons to John Wall & Russ Westbrook. Is that a bad thing?

Yex I know we missed on Towns, but there are a ton of free agent big men & no PGs. Could a PG be more valuable then Okafor?

When you put Steve fucking Mills up there on Lottery Night. Fuck this franchise. And more importantly, fuck Derek Fisher. Guy couldn't coach a JV basketball team 90% of the season, but decides to win meaningless garbage games when the team was already blown up to tank.

Their team is full of lottery picks and first rounders and they have a few #1 overall picks already. Fuck that.

we are the only team to slip the wrong way..LOL.. cursed.

Should explore trading down and nabbing Trey Lyles. That kid is going to be a really PF for someone in the near future.

Them taking 2 pgs completely fucked us.

but its clear you cannot win without a PG--- and the knicks have zero pg.... if he is the goods in workouts it would be a home run pick.

Not tanking the last week of the year cost them the top pick. Fireable IMO if Dolan had a pulse.

Stupid fucks

In comment 12293571 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 12293550 BeerFridge said: Quote: In comment 12293546 MookGiants said: Quote: to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability. I'm not sure how that's the case, considering that the team that finished last won the 1st pick. He's saying if the Knicks hadn't finished "strong" they would have had the Twolves' position and gotten the first pick.

yes, if everything was the same with all the ping pong balls moving exactly the same way then yes. But you can't argue that going back and losing those games changes it to a hundred percent chance of getting the first pick just because that's how it turned out for Minny in this roll of the ping pong balls. Every time you run it, the chances apply per the probability and the difference was 5 percent.

In comment 12293575 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 12293571 Aspano! said: Quote: In comment 12293550 BeerFridge said: Quote: In comment 12293546 MookGiants said: Quote: to 4th because Derek Fisher is a useless fuck. I remember when everyone on here said it didn't matter 1st or 2nd, only 5% difference. How do you feel now? Idiots this displays a basic lack of understanding of probability. I'm not sure how that's the case, considering that the team that finished last won the 1st pick. He's saying if the Knicks hadn't finished "strong" they would have had the Twolves' position and gotten the first pick. The team that finishes last has a 25% chance. Nothing is guaranteed. And historically, the team that finishes last usually doesn't get the first pick. Assuming the same thing would've happened if the Knicks had the 25% chance is silly.

But at the same time, by saying that if the Knicks had finished last and not gotten the first pick, you're saying that either something about the Knicks franchise or some other supernatural power or event somehow would have changed the outcome.

They're lottery numbers, first and foremost. The lottery numbers that were selected belonged to the team with the worst record, regardless of franchise.

I suppose you can argue both sides, but you can't say one is silly and the other isn't.

It's not like losing out on Curry by one pick and ending up with Hill. The ownership is terrible. The team is terrible. The coaching has been terrible. Still a Knick fan but gave up my season tickets years ago. It just felt like Dolan was laughing at all the fans.

PS. Chris Paul was the 4th pick. It's not an exact science.

I'm the only guy totally okay with Mudiay. Everything I've ready suggests he has as much upside as anyone in the draft.

concerned about system than BPA, if that is true then they continue to prove me wrong with just how incompetent they are.

In comment 12293604 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

but its clear you cannot win without a PG--- and the knicks have zero pg.... if he is the goods in workouts it would be a home run pick.

If he's good in the workouts he's not falling to 4.

In comment 12293597 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

When you put Steve fucking Mills up there on Lottery Night. Fuck this franchise. And more importantly, fuck Derek Fisher. Guy couldn't coach a JV basketball team 90% of the season, but decides to win meaningless garbage games when the team was already blown up to tank.

Bingo. I can't believe they sent Mills.

In comment 12293610 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

I'm the only guy totally okay with Mudiay. Everything I've ready suggests he has as much upside as anyone in the draft.

Your not the only one...

People acting like this draft has a Lebron or tim Duncan at 1..

It doesnt it has a top 4, people are freaking because teh Knicks are going to get a player they have not seen before

In comment 12293612 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 12293604 hitdog42 said: Quote: but its clear you cannot win without a PG--- and the knicks have zero pg.... if he is the goods in workouts it would be a home run pick. If he's good in the workouts he's not falling to 4.

Then we end up with Russell, Okafor or Towns.

It's a 4 player draft and we have a top 4 pick. Life is okay.

In comment 12293610 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

I'm the only guy totally okay with Mudiay. Everything I've ready suggests he has as much upside as anyone in the draft.

agree entirely- look at every team not named the rockets (where harden handles the ball all game anyway)--- you need a PG- this could force the knicks into one- not a bad result --- less options to fck up

not sure LAK takes Okafor. Doesnt fit next to Randle, and they're probably tampering with Marc Gasol anyway.

So if Okafor slide to 3, does Philly really take him? How many young, elite 4/5 prospects can you have?

Without trades, I could easily see Okafor sliding to the Knicks.

I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him. I think he's a good player, but I didn't just go through this shit show for a good player.

Nope I said it to my buddy before the draft. If we didn't get KAT I wanted a PG. There should be a decent amount of good big men in free agency. No PGs.

Watching now & Mudiay is quite the athlete.

In comment 12293616 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

It's a 4 player draft and we have a top 4 pick. Life is okay.

Until it turns out that someone has a fused spine or foot problems or AIDS. It was a 9 player NFL draft and then Gregory and Ray disqualified themselves.

to four? If you say Mudiay won't if he's great in the workouts.

I just wish things went our way for a change and we actually were able to take the player we wanted. Rather than it being decided for us, also gives us fewer trade options.

Fine with mudiay, actually like him a lot, but j am concerned that Phil Jackson will pass up the best available talent for a player that fits the triangle. You have to take mudiay he is too talented to pass up. The only way I trade down is if it is to get Cayley stein around 9 or 10 and pick up a number 1 next year and then you know you are signing Greg Monroe because if you have melo and Greg Monroe you will need Cayley stein

mudiay goes 2 to la

Trevor Ariza is the starting SF on a WCF team tonight.

All you can do as a Knicks fan is shake your head

In comment 12293622 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

to four? If you say Mudiay won't if he's great in the workouts.

if mudiay goes 2 i could see okafor falling to 4

so unbelievably overrated, terrible in the final four, terrible last year. Everyone wants to say oh he made Towns look good defensively, anyone ever think that Towns actually made him look better? He was able to freelance a lot with Towns protecting the paint

runs the LA front office, and I doubt the Lord wisheth for a ball dominant PG. They'll take Okafor.

Has Mudiay as the #3 player in the entire draft. Cool with me at #4. Plus he's said he will do everything he can to succeed for Phil. Hopefully we can get two solid big men.

In comment 12293617 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

In comment 12293610 Jon in NYC said: Quote: I'm the only guy totally okay with Mudiay. Everything I've ready suggests he has as much upside as anyone in the draft. agree entirely- look at every team not named the rockets (where harden handles the ball all game anyway)--- you need a PG- this could force the knicks into one- not a bad result --- less options to fck up

Agree with both hitdog and Jon.

Is totally off base. This is an epic failure.

In comment 12293637 bxgiants4 said:

Quote:

Is totally off base. This is an epic failure.

epic failure would of been 5

.

of course the Knicks falling to 4 isn't ideal and the stupid moralizing of victories in the last week of the season didn't help either.

That said, in a 4 player draft with 3 comparable players and one guy who's slightly ahead of everyone else, I'll take the 4th pick.

In my lifetime

of Mills reaction. The face of a man who knows he'll be answering to Isiah in a year.

Thing and blew the last week so they would have their choice

is going to blow up, Lakers take him 2nd, Philly takes Russell 3rd, we wind up with Okafor who goes on to be Al Jefferson in the NBA.

Lovely.

he grabbed the wrong envelope for 2. Silver expressely told him the Lakers were getting #1.

In comment 12293648 bxgiants4 said:

Quote:

Thing and blew the last week so they would have their choice

I suppose I'm more ok with this because I think we'll be picking Mudiay. I'm not an Okafor fan.

We need tapes of Mudiay STAT

refuse to work out for Minny (any) and maybe Philly (bigs).

#1 is nice. NY/LA is nicer, especially if you have a big ego and think you'll be a huge star.

Woohoo....

In comment 12293656 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Woohoo....

you can see the future? then who do they sign with the other 11 million??

In comment 12293655 Deej said:

Quote:

refuse to work out for Minny (any) and maybe Philly (bigs). #1 is nice. NY/LA is nicer, especially if you have a big ego and think you'll be a huge star.

They really dont need them to work out. Mudiay is the one guy whose workouts are important.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA � 12m 12 minutes ago
If Karl-Anthony Towns is determined to get to Lakers, it'll be interesting to see how agreeable his camp will be to meeting with Minnesota.


Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA � 39m 39 minutes ago
At No. 4, expect that the Knicks draft pick will be very available in trade talks.

would be a disaster. You're not getting a franchise caliber player for it, what's the fucking point. We need a franchise player, will Mudiay be it? Probably not but you have to take the chance.

would Minny need to meet with Towns? He can't force his way anywhere. They have seen him plenty of times i'm sure.

In comment 12293672 MookGiants said:

Quote:

would be a disaster. You're not getting a franchise caliber player for it, what's the fucking point. We need a franchise player, will Mudiay be it? Probably not but you have to take the chance.

I agree with this, depends what they are offered but your right draft Mudiay and go from there...

Mudiay could actually make Melo's life easier with his drive and kick ability...

Phil mentioned numerous times he wanted a slasher

In comment 12293672 MookGiants said:

Quote:

would be a disaster. You're not getting a franchise caliber player for it, what's the fucking point. We need a franchise player, will Mudiay be it? Probably not but you have to take the chance.

Ditto. If the Knicks trade this pick for anything other than a Cousins type player (who won't be available for that price), the franchise deserves to fail.

are ever going to win a title with Melo on the team, he needs to be the 2nd best player. It's clear they have no choice if he's the guy. He needs to be a complimentary piece. The chances of Mudiay being good enough one day to be a franchise player are slim, but theres at least a chance. Anyone you could get via trade for that pick (unless Kings want to trade Cousins for it, which I doubt) would definitely not be a franchise player

In comment 12293682 MookGiants said:

Quote:

are ever going to win a title with Melo on the team, he needs to be the 2nd best player. It's clear they have no choice if he's the guy. He needs to be a complimentary piece. The chances of Mudiay being good enough one day to be a franchise player are slim, but theres at least a chance. Anyone you could get via trade for that pick (unless Kings want to trade Cousins for it, which I doubt) would definitely not be a franchise player

how many years do you think Melo has left?

In comment 12293610 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

I'm the only guy totally okay with Mudiay. Everything I've ready suggests he has as much upside as anyone in the draft.

Yeah, I am ok with one of Russell, Mudiay or Okafor.

Given what's available in FA, there's a good chance that we can get a better big there than we can a PG.

In comment 12293684 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 12293682 MookGiants said: Quote: are ever going to win a title with Melo on the team, he needs to be the 2nd best player. It's clear they have no choice if he's the guy. He needs to be a complimentary piece. The chances of Mudiay being good enough one day to be a franchise player are slim, but theres at least a chance. Anyone you could get via trade for that pick (unless Kings want to trade Cousins for it, which I doubt) would definitely not be a franchise player how many years do you think Melo has left?

seeing as though he doesnt rely on athleticism probably 5-6 good years left

In comment 12293684 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 12293682 MookGiants said: Quote: are ever going to win a title with Melo on the team, he needs to be the 2nd best player. It's clear they have no choice if he's the guy. He needs to be a complimentary piece. The chances of Mudiay being good enough one day to be a franchise player are slim, but theres at least a chance. Anyone you could get via trade for that pick (unless Kings want to trade Cousins for it, which I doubt) would definitely not be a franchise player how many years do you think Melo has left?

He can be a complimentary piece for at least 3-4 more years imo. But he needs someone on the team that's clearly better than him

But Melo looks jacked from the recent pictures I've seen.

reading all of these posts and you guys didn't disappoint.

In comment 12293692 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

But Melo looks jacked from the recent pictures I've seen.

And people will still say he's fat.

In comment 12293692 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

But Melo looks jacked from the recent pictures I've seen.

Always relevant.

Also this pick is about more than Melo.

The salary cap is going to increase in the following years. Melo's contract, as large as it is, is going to be less of a weight than it is under this current system. Picking a good young player here on a rookie contract a) allows for us to spend more on good FA's and b) sets us up 4 years down the road when Melo's contract runs out.

Remember, when Melo is 35, a lot of these players will be 23-24. If you've got a young star, then it's easier to rebuild.

Given your criticism about Okafor, would you be happy if he fell to 4 and the Knicks took him given the circumstances?

It's widely known that Philly loves D'Angelo Russell, but the only GM to see Mudiay play in person in China was Sam Hinkie, the GM of the 76ers.

In comment 12293667 Anakim said:

Quote:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA � 12m 12 minutes ago If Karl-Anthony Towns is determined to get to Lakers, it'll be interesting to see how agreeable his camp will be to meeting with Minnesota. Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA � 39m 39 minutes ago At No. 4, expect that the Knicks draft pick will be very available in trade talks.

Uggh. So fucking predictable. Role player here we come!

Once the Knicks weren't going to get Towns, it doesn't really matter from 2-4.

Imagine what Clyde could do with the name Mudiay...

Still, it's just so frustrating to watch Jax and Fisher getting paid mad money for doing nothing to help this franchise.

Soooo fucking frustrating.

if you're a Knicks and a Jets fan?

The top four guy with the most questions going in could arguably have the highest upside in Mudiay. We're probably choosing between him and Russell in that slot imo. The teams talent level will go up significantly with this pick.

...and yes they should have tanked down the stretch...

will reach for a triangle player?

wild card. Assuming no trades, Minny takes KAT, Lakers take either Porzingis, Mudiay or Okafor, Philly takes Russell or Mudiay and the Knicks get their choice of Russell, Mudiay or Okafor
Porzingis could go in the Top 3 - ( New Window )

FIre Fisher and Phil!

and people will come off the ledge a bit, but can this team ever get a break? Goddamn. Oh, and thanks, Tim Hardaway, Jr., for morphing into an All-Star during the last week of the season.

In comment 12293699 Anakim said:

Quote:

Given your criticism about Okafor, would you be happy if he fell to 4 and the Knicks took him given the circumstances?

Happy? No. I'd take him, but I think he's Al Jefferson.

I wanted Towns, bad. Fucking awful that the final week is the reason we're not going to get him. Tim Hardaway can go fuck himself, complete loser

In comment 12293680 Ash_3 said:

Quote:

In comment 12293672 MookGiants said: Quote: would be a disaster. You're not getting a franchise caliber player for it, what's the fucking point. We need a franchise player, will Mudiay be it? Probably not but you have to take the chance. Ditto. If the Knicks trade this pick for anything other than a Cousins type player (who won't be available for that price), the franchise deserves to fail.

I wouldn't rule that out.

Many NBA players are so high on this kid.




Mudiay to Lakers in the Second - ( New Window )

I don't think it's the end of the world.

When was the last time this team had a legit PG?

In comment 12293717 MookGiants said:

Quote:

In comment 12293699 Anakim said: Quote: Given your criticism about Okafor, would you be happy if he fell to 4 and the Knicks took him given the circumstances? Happy? No. I'd take him, but I think he's Al Jefferson. I wanted Towns, bad. Fucking awful that the final week is the reason we're not going to get him. Tim Hardaway can go fuck himself, complete loser

Right Mook. Because the other games they won the rest of the year had no bearing on that 17 win season. Just the final week.

With the triangle, do we really need a legit PG?

In comment 12293732 Matt M. said:

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With the triangle, do we really need a legit PG?

Who cares about the Triangle? You pick the best player available.

In comment 12293728 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12293717 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293699 Anakim said: Quote: Given your criticism about Okafor, would you be happy if he fell to 4 and the Knicks took him given the circumstances? Happy? No. I'd take him, but I think he's Al Jefferson. I wanted Towns, bad. Fucking awful that the final week is the reason we're not going to get him. Tim Hardaway can go fuck himself, complete loser Right Mook. Because the other games they won the rest of the year had no bearing on that 17 win season. Just the final week.

At that point in the season they knew what was needed to have the worst record. They had it clinched if they simply kept losing. I dont expect them to lose every game, but when you are a week away and just need to lose out to get the worst record, you find a way

No one will ever convince me that a system can make the point guard obsolete in this sport.

There's no Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'Neal on this team.

just because he doesn't fit the mode of a "triangle" PG. I think most people were surprised by his willingness to share the ball in China.

His shooting form honestly doesn't look that bad. Then again, the Knicks probably won't get the chance to draft him.

Thinks Jackson will turn him into a star
Link - ( New Window )

the Knicks need to add a penetrator and a slasher...Mudiay fits that perfectly...

Plus the Knicks ave 1.3 million so they could end up with the best player in this draft and have 27 million to work with

will take Mudiay. We'll be stuck with Al Jefferson

In comment 12293753 MookGiants said:

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will take Mudiay. We'll be stuck with Al Jefferson

Somehow they will end up with KAT.

but i think Mudiay is more Mature and ready for the NBA than any other prospect...

Guy left his home to go to China to provide for his family...He could of easily went to College and dominate but he chose not to...

And people saying he cant shoot...he shot 49% and 35% from 3...not horrible at all..

In comment 12293753 MookGiants said:

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will take Mudiay. We'll be stuck with Al Jefferson

I actually think Minnesota is going to take Okafor and Lakers will end up with Towns...

In comment 12293757 nygiants16 said:

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but i think Mudiay is more Mature and ready for the NBA than any other prospect... Guy left his home to go to China to provide for his family...He could of easily went to College and dominate but he chose not to... And people saying he cant shoot...he shot 49% and 35% from 3...not horrible at all..

Seems like the only thing Russell has over him is the shot. Mudiay, from what I've read about him, is superior in every other category.

And Okafor is much better in the paint and is a big bigger, but KAT is better essentially everywhere else

settling with Okafor. If another team is enamored with Okafor and offers a bunch of picks for him, I'd do that too.

In comment 12293759 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12293753 MookGiants said: Quote: will take Mudiay. We'll be stuck with Al Jefferson I actually think Minnesota is going to take Okafor and Lakers will end up with Towns...

I can't see Minny taking Okafor when they have Pekovic who plays a similar below the rim game. But who knows? Maybe they will and then the Lakers will pounce on KAT.

Mudiay was going to have the choice of going to college.

In comment 12293757 nygiants16 said:

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but i think Mudiay is more Mature and ready for the NBA than any other prospect... Guy left his home to go to China to provide for his family...He could of easily went to College and dominate but he chose not to... And people saying he cant shoot...he shot 49% and 35% from 3...not horrible at all..

He also shoots 57% from the FT line. That's only slightly better than Okafor and Okafor is a huge guy with huge hands, so he has the whole Shaq/Dwight Howard excuse. What's Mudiay's? And Mudiay is turnover prone, which I don't need to tell you is a big no-no for PGs.

who think the Knicks #4 pick is available in trade. All of the rest that I have read say Jackson hinted about trading the #5, not the #4.

Which makes perfect sense. All of the top 4 have something special about them, they are all very young, and there isn't any way in the world to say right now which of the 4 has the most upside.

I would be really excited if Mudiay falls to the 4, even with his shooting shortcomings. Lots of big, athletic 19-year-olds learn to shoot later on. He could be a terrific pick at the 4th spot. If we get Russell instead, so what? Or Okafor?

Mudiay has made it clear that he likes the idea of playing for the Knicks. Maybe he curtails his individual workouts a bit and hopes to make it through. There are things I have read about him that sound exciting, including his maturity as a player at 19 playing overseas. Marbury loves his ass. (link)
Link - ( New Window )

over thinking this and focusing too much on the triangle. It would not shock me to see him trade down and take Kamisky and pick up a couple of second round picks while doing it. He has been overmatched in trades so far. He needs to stick with the pick and pick the best remaining between the big 4. This team needs so much I just cannot see how they can be a contender anytime soon. I think Mudiay would be the perfect start for a rebuild. All of the players that are worth maxes are restricted this year If we end up with Greg Monroe and no center then we are in trouble, it would have to lead to a Melo trade mid season for the rebuild. They have to find a way to pick up a 1st rd pick for next year.

Than Mudiay IMO. I don't know where this assumption that we have Mudiay locked up at 4 came from.

All the buzz last year was that the Sixers wanted Exum. I have no idea why we're taking this Philly targeting D'Lo as gospel.

so I'm cool if we get him at four. But it would be nice to have a choice of a couple of guys.

In comment 12293771 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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Than Mudiay IMO. I don't know where this assumption that we have Mudiay locked up at 4 came from. All the buzz last year was that the Sixers wanted Exum. I have no idea why we're taking this Philly targeting D'Lo as gospel.

I think Philly (if they don't trade out, which they probably won't given how many draft picks they have) are a lock to take either Russell or Mudiay. No one else seems to make sense given their roster. With Embiid, Noel and Saric, they need guards badly.

In comment 12293768 Anakim said:

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He also shoots 57% from the FT line. That's only slightly better than Okafor and Okafor is a huge guy with huge hands, so he has the whole Shaq/Dwight Howard excuse. What's Mudiay's? And Mudiay is turnover prone, which I don't need to tell you is a big no-no for PGs.

47 attempts is a terribly small sample size.

Westbrook shot 54.8% as a freshman (31 FTA). Then 71% as a Soph, and 81.5% as an NBA rookie.

In comment 12293767 MookGiants said:

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Mudiay was going to have the choice of going to college.

That is not true he was all set to go to SMU and chose to go to China instead

He may have the "it" factor that being limited somewhat athletically doesn't matter.

He had to go to China.

shooting, of course, but also passing skills that aren't based upon penetration. Word is that he sees the floor incredibly well.

Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
Not so sure how quickly we should be penciling in Towns at #1, Okafor at #2. Word has itt Flip really likes Okafor. Will be some drama there

In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said:

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He had to go to China.

That is not true...he chose to go to China

In comment 12293761 Jim in Hoboken said:

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settling with Okafor. If another team is enamored with Okafor and offers a bunch of picks for him, I'd do that too.

This has to be the most ridiculous comment on this thread. Holy hell...

In comment 12293779 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12293767 MookGiants said: Quote: Mudiay was going to have the choice of going to college. That is not true he was all set to go to SMU and chose to go to China instead

You can be admitted to school without meeting NCAA eligibility requirements. Larry Brown was cagey in saying he was "admitted". He was also at Deion's school which was a shit show. He might have had benefits received concerns.

In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China

He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that.

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over thinking this and focusing too much on the triangle

He isn't stupid or egotistical enough to think that the triangle was the key to his success in LA and Chi is he? God I hope not.

In comment 12293782 manh george said:

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shooting, of course, but also passing skills that aren't based upon penetration. Word is that he sees the floor incredibly well.

The difference between Mudiay and Russell is Russell has excellent court vision and BBIQ since he doesnt have the athleticism he uses that to find the open man...

Mudiay will drive by people and use that to draw the defense in and find the open man...he is not going to make the incredible pass...

That'll guarantee Russell or Mudiay for us.

Isn't that crazy of a thought. Excellent shooter and a plus athlete. Has the size and speed to possibly guard 3 positions. He's the present and future of the NBA.

Mudiay is never going to admit it, but I think he went to China because he wasn't going to be eligible.

We'll never know for sure, but there were rumors he wasn't going to be eligible for a while before he ever announced he was going to China
link - ( New Window )

In comment 12293782 manh george said:

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shooting, of course, but also passing skills that aren't based upon penetration. Word is that he sees the floor incredibly well.

Russell's passing is unreal. He probably comes into the league as a top 5 passer of the basketball.

In comment 12293787 MookGiants said:

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In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that.

From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor...

What makes you so sure about Okafor?

In comment 12293788 bluepepper said:

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Quote: over thinking this and focusing too much on the triangle He isn't stupid or egotistical enough to think that the triangle was the key to his success in LA and Chi is he? God I hope not.

the real reason and we will never know

In comment 12293795 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12293787 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that. From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor...

You must have just started reading. There has been a ton of talk about him not qualifying. Read the Parrish article.

You know that ain't easy. I wouldn't belittle Mudiay's basketball IQ and passing ability.

I think in high school he was too dominant with the ball instead of playing the role of a traditional PG, as any hot shot young kid would, but in China from what I've read he opened some eyes with his willingness to get others involved.

Only has me thinking how far away the knicks are. These guys are playing at such a higher level it's scary.

In comment 12293773 bceagle05 said:

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so I'm cool if we get him at four. But it would be nice to have a choice of a couple of guys.

They will... everyone except the top 3 picks.

In comment 12293800 MookGiants said:

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In comment 12293795 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293787 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that. From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor... You must have just started reading. There has been a ton of talk about him not qualifying. Read the Parrish article.

Mook is right about this. He probably wasn't going to be eligible.

...

In comment 12293807 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12293800 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293795 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293787 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that. From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor... You must have just started reading. There has been a ton of talk about him not qualifying. Read the Parrish article. Mook is right about this. He probably wasn't going to be eligible.

So are we just going to quote entire pages now

In comment 12293813 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 12293807 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 12293800 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293795 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293787 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that. From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor... You must have just started reading. There has been a ton of talk about him not qualifying. Read the Parrish article. Mook is right about this. He probably wasn't going to be eligible. So are we just going to quote entire pages now

Yes

.

In comment 12293814 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12293813 AnotherGiantsFan said: Quote: In comment 12293807 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 12293800 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293795 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293787 MookGiants said: Quote: In comment 12293784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12293781 Jim in Hoboken said: Quote: He had to go to China. That is not true...he chose to go to China He can put whatever spin on it he wants, there was a very real chance he wasn't going to be cleared to play. And he knew that. From everything i read Mook, he knew he was a 1 and done and wanted to start making money right away...he already had sponsership from Under Armor... You must have just started reading. There has been a ton of talk about him not qualifying. Read the Parrish article. Mook is right about this. He probably wasn't going to be eligible. So are we just going to quote entire pages now Yes

Just making sure

but that was ridiculous.

I can't listen to any of the people talking shit about them not "tanking right" like SAS just did on SportsCenter. The Knicks beat Atlanta, who was playing all of their best players except Millsap, with this collection of anal leakage:

Langston Galloway
Tim Hardaway
Jason Smith
Lance Thomas
Lou Amundson
Quincy Acy
Shane Larkin
Cole Aldrich

Just those players showing up to the arena indicates tanking is occurring. Yet they somehow won the damn game IN Atlanta.

The 2 bigs aren't dropping past 2 and we'll have to be content with Russell (who I apparently like more than most of BBI) or Mudiay. If the Knicks tried to draft one of the Europeans, someone would burn the Garden down with the Rangers still in it.

In comment 12293821 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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but that was ridiculous. I can't listen to any of the people talking shit about them not "tanking right" like SAS just did on SportsCenter. The Knicks beat Atlanta, who was playing all of their best players except Millsap, with this collection of anal leakage: Langston Galloway Tim Hardaway Jason Smith Lance Thomas Lou Amundson Quincy Acy Shane Larkin Cole Aldrich Just those players showing up to the arena indicates tanking is occurring. Yet they somehow won the damn game IN Atlanta. The 2 bigs aren't dropping past 2 and we'll have to be content with Russell (who I apparently like more than most of BBI) or Mudiay. If the Knicks tried to draft one of the Europeans, someone would burn the Garden down with the Rangers still in it.

Disaster? Dude... settle down.

that the team with the worst record has gotten the 1st pick and only the 5th time in 31 years...so stop with the not tanking right...

Even if the Knicks finished with the worst record it did not mean they were getting the top pick so stop...

said heis hearing 4 teams have already called the Knicks asking about their pick...all teams outside the lottery...

This was said before the lottery tonight...

There is no Duncan, LeBron, Curry, Durant type player in this draft.

but worst record made the fourth pick a remote possibility - top three would've been all but guaranteed and a few more lottery balls would've gone towards an even higher pick. Those last two wins hurt, no question about it, but it's water under the bridge now.

In comment 12293828 charlito said:

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There is no Duncan, LeBron, Curry, Durant type player in this draft.

Curry wasn't a Curry type player going into his draft either.

In comment 12293827 nygiants16 said:

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said heis hearing 4 teams have already called the Knicks asking about their pick...all teams outside the lottery... This was said before the lottery tonight...

I am sure now there is just 1 team... LOL

So we could tank. Phil did his part, D Fish didn't do his.

Speaking of which, D Fish has shown me nothing to prove he's in any way a good coach. I don't want to hear about the roster either. The roster wasn't awful in the beginning of the season, and you can still look competent even with a bad roster. Example : Brad Stevens

Hopefully he takes a quantum leap next season.

Brian Mahoney ‏@briancmahoney 2m2 minutes ago
Phil has lost every trade he's made. If I'm a Knicks fan, wouldn't be eager to trade the No. 4 pick.

In comment 12293834 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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So we could tank. Phil did his part, D Fish didn't do his. Speaking of which, D Fish has shown me nothing to prove he's in any way a good coach. I don't want to hear about the roster either. The roster wasn't awful in the beginning of the season, and you can still look competent even with a bad roster. Example : Brad Stevens Hopefully he takes a quantum leap next season.

STOP IT! Phil traded J.R. and Shumpert for nothing because he wanted the cap room. Not to tank.

In comment 12293832 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12293828 charlito said: Quote: There is no Duncan, LeBron, Curry, Durant type player in this draft. Curry wasn't a Curry type player going into his draft either.

You're right. I'm trying to find something positive. What a tough night.

More often than not, studs do come at around the 4 spot. RW, KLove, Harden, Boogie, Curry, Lillard come to mind.

In comment 12293836 Anakim said:

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Brian Mahoney ‏@briancmahoney 2m2 minutes ago Phil has lost every trade he's made. If I'm a Knicks fan, wouldn't be eager to trade the No. 4 pick.

I'm really fuckin' tired of idiots acting like people were beating down the Knicks' doors for a quitter like Chandler, human garbage like JR Smith, or a lazy bum like Shump.

are so depressing.

I wanted the #1 pick too. I've wanted Towns since the first time I saw him play. It didn't happen. Time to move on.

I thought going in there were 4 players, maybe 5, that could be franchise changing in this draft. We're picking 4th so we're going to get one of the 4. I am ok with that.

In comment 12293837 EricNY33 said:

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STOP IT! Phil traded J.R. and Shumpert for nothing because he wanted the cap room. Not to tank.

Oh ok, then he was just stupid for trading two players while their stock was at an absolute low.

Thanks for clarifying.

In comment 12293840 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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More often than not, studs do come at around the 4 spot. RW, KLove, Harden, Boogie, Curry, Lillard come to mind.

And you didn't even mention the best one of the 4th overall picks... Chris Paul.

we are going to read about a ton of trade rumors from now until draft night....should be fun

In comment 12293843 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 12293837 EricNY33 said: Quote: STOP IT! Phil traded J.R. and Shumpert for nothing because he wanted the cap room. Not to tank. Oh ok, then he was just stupid for trading two players while their stock was at an absolute low. Thanks for clarifying.

On this team... when was their stock going to rise? Explain that to me. With J.R. chucking up shots shooting 35% every night? Or Shumpert getting beat backdoor for the 1000th time?

Neither player was ever going to get them anything of value.

In comment 12293843 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 12293837 EricNY33 said: Quote: STOP IT! Phil traded J.R. and Shumpert for nothing because he wanted the cap room. Not to tank. Oh ok, then he was just stupid for trading two players while their stock was at an absolute low. Thanks for clarifying.

Considering the kind of people those 2 guys are, their stock wasn't going to get any better. Those 2 jackasses would've been perfectly content to steal money in a bad situation.

is Shumpert really playing that well?

Tyson is at home and really didnt play well for the Mavs...

He could have traded them before this team was an absolute shit show. It was clearly a tank move, that also relieved cap. It was two-fold. But the move would not have been done if the team didn't implode in embarrassing fashion.

In comment 12293850 nygiants16 said:

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is Shumpert really playing that well? Tyson is at home and really didnt play well for the Mavs...

And hindsight is 20/20. When they made the Chandler deal they were doing it to upgrade the PG spot. Nobody knew that Calderon would be as shitty as he was.

I don't know why people are upset with Phil moving players that weren't part of the long term future here anyway.

In comment 12293851 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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He could have traded them before this team was an absolute shit show. It was clearly a tank move, that also relieved cap. It was two-fold. But the move would not have been done if the team didn't implode in embarrassing fashion.

The Knicks were NEVER tanking. They were just a bad basketball team. They had ONE player who it turns out was playing on a bum knee since the 2nd game of the season.

In comment 12293851 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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He could have traded them before this team was an absolute shit show. It was clearly a tank move, that also relieved cap. It was two-fold. But the move would not have been done if the team didn't implode in embarrassing fashion.

Actually Knicks were trying to JR since the off season but there were no takers...

The ONLY reason the Cavs took JR was because they got Shumpert...so please stop..

Averaging over a block per game. Jose Calderon is looking at nursing homes.

Iman Shumpert and JR Smith averaged over 12 points and 4 boards in the Chicago series. Not bad for giving up absolutely nothing.

dumping those losers - it's not like he was breaking up the Showtime Lakers. We just needed a bit of luck tonight and we got the bare minimum of it - we're not picking fifth, which was a remote possibility. Great.

It just annoys me that - of the top five slots - the Knicks were mostly likely to pick fourth, with the second worst record. I'm ok with a little randomness, but that's too much. But I digress. At least Mudiay seems excited about possibly playing here.

A lot of people, including myself, cited Jose Calderons age and contract.

I also have no idea how you are so plugged in that you know we were trying to get rid of JR Smith but there were no takers.

In comment 12293836 Anakim said:

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Brian Mahoney ‏@briancmahoney 2m2 minutes ago Phil has lost every trade he's made. If I'm a Knicks fan, wouldn't be eager to trade the No. 4 pick.

Phil Jackson making Layden, Isiah and Walsh look like virtuoses. There is no hiding and scapegoating this one. He owns it.

I thought it was apparent that the JR Smith/Iman Shumpert trade was a tank move, not an insult.

In comment 12293860 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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I thought it was apparent that the JR Smith/Iman Shumpert trade was a tank move, not an insult.

Then you shouldn't have brought it up.

It wasn't a tank move. It was a these guys suck and aren't worth my time move.

In comment 12293857 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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A lot of people, including myself, cited Jose Calderons age and contract. I also have no idea how you are so plugged in that you know we were trying to get rid of JR Smith but there were no takers.

This was widely reported. None of us are plugged in but the writers and reporters do have sources.

The Knicks wouldn't have a fucking roster if he made a trade for every player on this team that is shit and not worth anyones time.

In comment 12293865 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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The Knicks wouldn't have a fucking roster if he made a trade for every player on this team that is shit and not worth anyones time.

You're much more willing to give hungry players a chance than guys who didn't want to do what the coach was asking them to do and quite frankly... weren't playing hard.

They were bad at the time and are still bad now- Calderon was always too old and a bad contract-
Shumpert has always shown to be worthy of a rotation spot on a good team- he's just not a good player on a bad team.... But isn't the goal to build a good team?

Just call a spade a spade- bad trades last year but hopefully can nail this pick and sign some fa and move forward.

but at least we still ended up top 4. This is def not a disaster as some are saying. We should still get a very good player. Im really hoping for Mudiay and i think there is a strong chance that is our pick. So grab him, sign Monroe, and try to use the remaining money for a 2 (mathews, green, etc.. if we have enough money) or a defensive/rebounding big like Asik, Biyombo, etc...

As for trading the pick, i cant really think this is an option. You are not getting a stud for the 4th pick and we have nobody to combine with the pick to sweeten the offer. At best we would get some older or overpaid vet.

Is if a team offers a player and a pick otherwise no deal

As for mudiay it was reported he was talking to his agent at the lottery

but did i miss something? Why would talking to his agent be news? Was there speculation he was talking to someone else?

In comment 12293983 Italianju said:

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but did i miss something? Why would talking to his agent be news? Was there speculation he was talking to someone else?

I meant mills was talking to his agent after lottery sorry on phone

so all those Minnesota fans can watch some quality NBA. Literally 10s of 100s of fans.

that makes more sense. Thanks 16. Depending on how he did in workouts i do think there could be an argument made for Mudiay at 2 so if we get him i wont really be upset. At this point id really only be a bit disappointed if we ended up with Russell, but even then i wouldnt be upset.

I'm not phased much by getting the 4 spot; its a 4 person draft and we're in the top 4, but I still just cant get over the fact that out of 14 teams in the lottery, only one team came out last night in a worse position than they finished, and its the Knicks. You just cant make up the narrative. And on top of it, the biggest shamrock up the ass team in the league, the Lakers, is the only team to move up.

But my biggest fear on getting the 4 spot is, with the Knicks luck one of the top 4 guys gets a catastrophic injury before the draft and then the 4 person draft becomes 3 and the Knicks are left on the outside looking in. That would be Knicks luck.

boggles my mind how negative everyone is being about this. We knew it was a lottery and nothing was guaranteed. So we didn't get a top 2 pick... disappointing, yes, but no need for all the woe is me crap. Plenty of good to great players were picked 4th overall.

Knick fans have battered wife syndrome.

In comment 12294005 EricNY33 said:

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boggles my mind how negative everyone is being about this. We knew it was a lottery and nothing was guaranteed. So we didn't get a top 2 pick... disappointing, yes, but no need for all the woe is me crap. Plenty of good to great players were picked 4th overall. Knick fans have battered wife syndrome.

I thinkif Mudiay played at SMU people would be fine with 4 but since people have not seen him play and there is not a big sample size on him people are freaking out...

A. Gordon
C. Zeller
Waiters
T. Thompson
W. Johnson
T. Evans
Westbrook
Conley
Tyrus Thomas
Paul

Although a couple of those seemed like WTF picks when they were made. Specifically Zeller and Wes Johnson. I mean i know he had some issues but how in the hell did Wes Johnson go ahead of Cousins.

with westbrook, Paul, or Conley and pissed with everyone else, ha.

Of the 14 teams were in the lottery last night - 13 or them stayed in their projected spot or moved up. The Knicks, of course, were the one team to fall. If you had posed that scenario to any basketball fan five minutes before the lottery, everyone would've assumed it was the Knicks who dropped.

In comment 12294019 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12294005 EricNY33 said: Quote: boggles my mind how negative everyone is being about this. We knew it was a lottery and nothing was guaranteed. So we didn't get a top 2 pick... disappointing, yes, but no need for all the woe is me crap. Plenty of good to great players were picked 4th overall. Knick fans have battered wife syndrome. I thinkif Mudiay played at SMU people would be fine with 4 but since people have not seen him play and there is not a big sample size on him people are freaking out...

And what if Mudiay goes to the Sixers? Are people freaking out about Russell?

I don't love Russell's game but most scouts seem to. I am not a Winslow fan at all, mostly because I don't think he can play the 2 in the NBA.

In comment 12294031 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12294019 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12294005 EricNY33 said: Quote: boggles my mind how negative everyone is being about this. We knew it was a lottery and nothing was guaranteed. So we didn't get a top 2 pick... disappointing, yes, but no need for all the woe is me crap. Plenty of good to great players were picked 4th overall. Knick fans have battered wife syndrome. I thinkif Mudiay played at SMU people would be fine with 4 but since people have not seen him play and there is not a big sample size on him people are freaking out... And what if Mudiay goes to the Sixers? Are people freaking out about Russell? I don't love Russell's game but most scouts seem to. I am not a Winslow fan at all, mostly because I don't think he can play the 2 in the NBA.

Of course they are...fans can not just sit back and look at it as a top 4 draft...Knicks have 4...

People are freaking out like they just missed out on Lebron or Tim Duncan...

There is not Lebron or Tim Duncan in this draft

personally. He isnt my favorite, but he should still be a solid pro. For some reason he doesnt seem to have "star" potential to me though. Id be freaking out much more if we were forced to take one of the euro's or WInslow. I really like Winslow, but like Eric i question if he can play the 2 and the knicks already have a 3. That said had we ended up with 5 i think Winslow would have been my pick and you just figure out the position later.

In comment 12294022 Italianju said:

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with westbrook, Paul, or Conley and pissed with everyone else, ha.

And since we're looking at a guard most likely let's hope one of them turn out to be as good as Westbrook, Paul, or Conley lol

In comment 12294036 Italianju said:

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personally. He isnt my favorite, but he should still be a solid pro. For some reason he doesnt seem to have "star" potential to me though. Id be freaking out much more if we were forced to take one of the euro's or WInslow. I really like Winslow, but like Eric i question if he can play the 2 and the knicks already have a 3. That said had we ended up with 5 i think Winslow would have been my pick and you just figure out the position later.

As I've said before... I would be tempted to take one of the Euros, knowing full well that the minute the commissioner says Porzingis' or Hezonja's name I would be hitting the unemployment line.

But that's the gambler in me.

and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft...

In comment 12294003 Steve in Greenwich said:

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I'm not phased much by getting the 4 spot; its a 4 person draft and we're in the top 4, but I still just cant get over the fact that out of 14 teams in the lottery, only one team came out last night in a worse position than they finished, and its the Knicks. You just cant make up the narrative. And on top of it, the biggest shamrock up the ass team in the league, the Lakers, is the only team to move up. But my biggest fear on getting the 4 spot is, with the Knicks luck one of the top 4 guys gets a catastrophic injury before the draft and then the 4 person draft becomes 3 and the Knicks are left on the outside looking in. That would be Knicks luck.

My biggest fear is that Management panics and trades the pick for an Antonio McDyess type vet. That's a definite possibility and would be catastrophic.

In comment 12294061 nygiants16 said:

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and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft...

What a ridiculous statement.

I actually give Mudiay a bump because he played in China. I'd take two big games against a 38 year old Starbury over Russell beating up on guys who can't even make the D League.

As an aside, it's hilarious that Mudiay autocorrects to nudist on my phone.

In comment 12294074 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12294061 nygiants16 said: Quote: and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft... What a ridiculous statement.

Sorry Jon... Frank Kaminsky or Sam Dekker will be the best player in this draft!..

Because the entire lottery went chalk except for the fucking Knicks. Oh, and the Lakers.

It also doesn't help when you know you'd have a higher chance at top 3 if your dog shit coach didn't do what he did so well the rest of the year and just lose out.

Also, I never want to see Steve Mills on my fucking television ever again. We should have gotten the 8th pick for trotting his sorry ass up there.

In comment 12294082 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12294074 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12294061 nygiants16 said: Quote: and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft... What a ridiculous statement. Sorry Jon... Frank Kaminsky or Sam Dekker will be the best player in this draft!..

The difference is I say that shit in jest. No one can say with any ounce of certainty who will turn out to be an Nba starter, nevermind the best player in the draft. Compound that with the fact that you haven't seen the dude play a full game of basketball and it just doesn't make any sense to say that.

but because they're bigs they'll get overdrafted.

I think one of the guards may end up as the better player.

but here is the mcdonald's all star game full game..,,

Couple of times Mudiay goes against Russell
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12294088 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 12294082 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12294074 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12294061 nygiants16 said: Quote: and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft... What a ridiculous statement. Sorry Jon... Frank Kaminsky or Sam Dekker will be the best player in this draft!.. The difference is I say that shit in jest. No one can say with any ounce of certainty who will turn out to be an Nba starter, nevermind the best player in the draft. Compound that with the fact that you haven't seen the dude play a full game of basketball and it just doesn't make any sense to say that.

So i can not state my opinion? it is not like i am saying it just because he is the likely pick for the Knicks...i siad it yesterday too before i knew the Knicks were going to be the 4th pick....

I am not allowed to state that opinion?

In comment 12294085 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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Because the entire lottery went chalk except for the fucking Knicks. Oh, and the Lakers. It also doesn't help when you know you'd have a higher chance at top 3 if your dog shit coach didn't do what he did so well the rest of the year and just lose out. Also, I never want to see Steve Mills on my fucking television ever again. We should have gotten the 8th pick for trotting his sorry ass up there.

The first two points you can definitely be upset about, but the Mills thing is ridiculous lol

In comment 12294094 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12294088 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12294082 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12294074 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 12294061 nygiants16 said: Quote: and i will say it again Mudiay ends up being the best player in this draft... What a ridiculous statement. Sorry Jon... Frank Kaminsky or Sam Dekker will be the best player in this draft!.. The difference is I say that shit in jest. No one can say with any ounce of certainty who will turn out to be an Nba starter, nevermind the best player in the draft. Compound that with the fact that you haven't seen the dude play a full game of basketball and it just doesn't make any sense to say that. So i can not state my opinion? it is not like i am saying it just because he is the likely pick for the Knicks...i siad it yesterday too before i knew the Knicks were going to be the 4th pick.... I am not allowed to state that opinion?

I think he's saying how can you have that opinion since the only real game most of us has ever seen of him is a HS All-Star Game. It's a fair statement.

Than the other two things.

but IF Mudiay develops a high-quality jump shot over the next couple of years, there isn't any reason to think that his upside isn't as high as anyone else in the top four.

And forget about the two Europeans when the Knicks pick. They can't wait around for Porzingas to get up to NBA-level strength in another two seasons-plus, and Hezonja's best position is also Melo's. No Winslow either. With holes everywhere, but especially at PG, PF and C, they are taking whichever pg falls, unless Okafor does. Then they get a center and hopefully a decent quality PF in FA.

Being an older (definite) and more wiser (arguable) man has given me a different perspective about these things.

Learn to be upset and worry about the things you can control in life. The things we can't control are going to happen no matter what we do.

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but from what i have seen and read i like what i see...

and i like the fact he has been playing against grown men since he was 18...

I like the fact that every former NBA player playing China says he is going to be a great player in the NBA...

and i think athleticism makes him a better prospect than Russell..

I think his shot will come, he didnt shoot horribly in China even though it is a small sample size...

I like the fact he is 6 5 and with the league becoming more gaurd oriented, it will be nice to have a PG that can keep his man in front of him and on the other end use his speed to drive by his guy and break down a defense...

For talking about guys like Mudiay even though we haven't seen full games of them. You realize this is what the NBA is doing right now, right? A lot of these people haven't seen Mudiay play, and pretty much no one saw Dante Exum play last year. Yet look where they are getting drafted/projected to be drafted.

I really like Hezonja. I haven't watched a single game of him. But his shooting form is on point and he shows plus athleticism and slashing ability. Also has the height to guard multiple positions.

.

But can Hezonja play the two? At 6'8, I would doubt it, and they aren't taking another 3 with all of the holes to fill.

Putting Melo back at the 4 is just wrong at this point in his career.

In comment 12294139 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Quote from a scout on Exum

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Unless you are some super-scout that saw him on some JV vocational team in Australia, you have only seen him live twice in like 14 months. The workouts give you nothing; we already know he�s big and an athlete. It�s a risk, but last time we saw him at the under-19 he dominated.

Mudiay, I'm sure scouts seen him. But none of the GMs except for Hinkie have seen him live. Yet he will still go top 5.

Look at Klay Thompson. And Hezonja is a better athlete. From what I've seen, he actually looks like a 2 guard out there. He just has the ability to play the 3, which should only be seen as a plus.

I think Hezonja just makes too much sense on the Magic though. If Hezonja can learn how to defend up to his ability an Oladipo, Payton, and Hezonja back court would just smother offenses. All of them can defend multiple positions. Magic also desperately need outside shooting.

Hezonja can play SG at 6'8

In comment 12294146 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 12294139 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Quote from a scout on Exum Quote: Unless you are some super-scout that saw him on some JV vocational team in Australia, you have only seen him live twice in like 14 months. The workouts give you nothing; we already know he�s big and an athlete. It�s a risk, but last time we saw him at the under-19 he dominated. Mudiay, I'm sure scouts seen him. But none of the GMs except f or Hinkie have seen him live. Yet he will still go top 5.

Can't argue with that, I guess.

As far as the Knicks are concerned, I thought they actually spend a fair amount of money and employ a pretty noteworthy foreign scout. Maybe that's just europe, not asia.

I'm happy the Lakers finally got a blip of luck, but it's suspect whether the top 5 crop compare well with other years, imv. I wonder if they grab a C, or try to trade down and get the athletic wing in Winslow.

Knicks could wind up with the kid Phil apparently loves in Russell, which would be better value at #4.

In comment 12294529 JonC said:

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I'm happy the Lakers finally got a blip of luck

Yeah, the Lakers sure haven't had much luck in their history, have they?

They were due. grin.

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and you just might get your wish, unless Jim Buss suddenly reincarnates as Dr Buss.

demandeth Okafor and the Lakers will continue to be a sieve defensively.

In comment 12294529 JonC said:

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I'm happy the Lakers finally got a blip of luck, but it's suspect whether the top 5 crop compare well with other years, imv. I wonder if they grab a C, or try to trade down and get the athletic wing in Winslow. Knicks could wind up with the kid Phil apparently loves in Russell, which would be better value at #4.

I don't think Russell gets past the Sixers.

at the Lakers finally getting a blip of luck.

They could go 50 years without being due for any good luck after the decades of insane luck they've had.

God I hate that franchise.

I hope NYK gets their dude.

available to cry to the league after some of their vag sand gets in their eyes.

So lucky.

They can't even fight off all the luck that has been handed to them the last few years. Kobe's knees are exploding due to having to carry the burden of so much luck.

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@darrenrovell Mind-blowing picture by @SSpakeESPN of Jahlil Okafor palming a REGULATION basketball