Bleacher report with a horrible trade idea
"Mets get:
SS Starlin Castro;
INF/OF Arismendy Alcantara; and
1B Dan Vogelbach
Cubs get:
RHP Jacob deGrom;
RHP Rafael Montero; and
C Kevin Plawecki"
AAA-
Muno 1-3, BB
Rivera 1-4
Reynolds 1-4, 2b
Bellow complete game So, 2 k's
AA
Cecchini 2-5, Hr, 2b (nice)
Boyd 2-4, 2b, K
Koch 3 innings 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 2 k's
A+
Stuart 0-5 3 k's (embarrassingly bad season)
McNeil 0-5, K
Conforto 2-5 K
Smith 1-4, 2b
Rosario 1-4
Urena 1-3, bb, K
Diaz 5.1 innings 8 hits 2 runs 3 walks 5 k's
Regnault 1.2 innings 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 4 k's
Savannah
Guillorme 0-4. K
Becerra 2-4
Garcia 3-4, 2b
Oswalt 4 innings 5 hits 0 runs 0 walk 4 k's
Cecchini is having a nice year so far. Good to see him establish himself as a legit prospect after a lot of us on bbi (myself included) wern't fans of the pick.
Conforto also appears to be starting to hit again.
Is Matz up tonight?
Lagares/Montero for Gomez
(I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.)
Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M
(risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)
Cecchini is having a nice year so far. Good to see him establish himself as a legit prospect after a lot of us on bbi (myself included) wern't fans of the pick.
Conforto also appears to be starting to hit again.
Is Matz up tonight?
LV has off today
Ynoa
TBD
Wieck
go today
Wilmer Flores 0.8 WAR, wRC+ 103
LOLZ!!!!!
Lagares/Montero for Gomez
(I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.)
Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M
(risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)
I'd 100% do the top deal without much thought. Gomez is a game changer, love Lagares but Gomez is the kind of dynamic talent we need, badly. Still leaves you with a Conforto-Gomez-Granderson OF for 2016 which I would sign for. Gomez since 2012 121 OPS+ with 115 steals
Lagares/Montero for Gomez
(I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.)
Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M
(risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)
I actually like both these suggestions.
You could almost just play them LCF and RCF and use a 2 man OF (I'm not serious but they'd probably cover most of the ground without a 3rd guy)
It's not going to happen because MIL wouldn't take him off our hands, but.. I would much rather have Lagares.
+1
It's a Maverick tradition
the only problem i have with the Granderson signing is the years. I wouldn't have gone beyond 3 years. He fills a necessary role that I don't know where they would get otherwise, lead-off, obp, steady, but not great D, power.
Unless they broke the bank for Ellsbury or reacquired Reyes they need Granderson.
Once the pick entered the equation I'd have agreed. Good role player for the price, but this team needed (needs) an impact player not role players.
Yep. I thought it would be a bad signing because he'd be on the shelf. Turns out his buddy DW is the injured one and not him. But he's doing so poorly, the team would probably be better off if he WAS on the DL..
steve,
Let's be fair here Gomez since 2013 is the 2nd best defensive CF in baseball and a FAR better offensive player than Lagares. It's not as if the Mets would take a hit in CF making that switch. Since 2013 Gomez is 2nd in UZR in CF, 2nd in total defense and 2nd in DRS.
Castro would be a downgrade from Flores. A pretty big one actually. Oh and let's just throw in the reigning rookie of the year/ace type player, one of the best catching prospects in the game, and solid 3/4 starter under control for the next 6 years for good measure. Sounds like a homerun!
That's only true if you consider Cuddyer the player he has shown for the last 6 weeks and I do not. If you've already accepted that he has completely fell off in one year and is the next Jason Bay, then Id agree.. And at that point he likely IS replaced anyway.
If Cuddyer has a normal career year for his standards, he's still a very productive player and IMO we've seen flashes of that player already. He's still pressing and struggling as are others. Granderson has been more than solid.
This is their chance to do it right and try to build a great team that can contend for many years to come. Teams only have so much surplus talent and trading away any of it in a package with Lagares for Gomez at this point in time would probably benefit someone's fantasy team but not the Mets long term. They simply don't have that luxury and the need at CF is not that great of a need for them. If it would be the last piece of the puzzle than maybe but they simply have too many other needs that will have to be addressed an improved upon.
2010 (157 GP) - 56 XBH (14 HRs) / 81 RBIs
2011 (139 GP) - 51 XBH (20 HRs) / 70 RBIs
His current projection
2015 (154 GP) - 36 XBH (12 HRs) / 70 RBIs
His BA & XBH are down, but if he has a couple of hot weeks they will be right back in their more typical paces. Assuming he stays healthy I would be very surprised if he doesn't hit his career norms of a .270 BA, 12-15 HR, and 70-80 RBIs. Nobody should have expected his Coors Field numbers.
2010 (157 GP) - 56 XBH (14 HRs) / 81 RBIs
2011 (139 GP) - 51 XBH (20 HRs) / 70 RBIs
His current projection
2015 (154 GP) - 36 XBH (12 HRs) / 70 RBIs
His BA & XBH are down, but if he has a couple of hot weeks they will be right back in their more typical paces. Assuming he stays healthy I would be very surprised if he doesn't hit his career norms of a .270 BA, 12-15 HR, and 70-80 RBIs. Nobody should have expected his Coors Field numbers.
Yup exactly. And in fact we had that EXACT conversation here many times that Cuddyer would likely produce his career norms and most here said they would sign up for that.
That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.
Not out of the realm of possibility that he could be done...
There are 2 things crippling this team's ability to improve and make moves right now.
$20M (20% of the payroll) and getting nothing out of Wright.
$25M (25% of the payroll) and getting at best average players in both COF positions.
That's half of the payroll in key hitting positions not doing all that much. 2 role players and 1 perennially injured star.
I totally agree with this. He was a temporary bandaid, and perhaps the best value of the available options, but so far he has not been the massive addition the organization has made him out to be. And it's not because he had a Jason Bay-like decline. He is what is (and it's commensurate with his salary). I'm mostly presenting the case against anyone who hyped him up as something more.
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And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder.
That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.
I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series.
Meanwhile in Houston, a clinic on how to break it down to the floor and build it up faster than SA. A few promotions on the way and FOUR draft picks before the Mets select one player.
There are 2 things crippling this team's ability to improve and make moves right now.
$20M (20% of the payroll) and getting nothing out of Wright.
$25M (25% of the payroll) and getting at best average players in both COF positions.
That's half of the payroll in key hitting positions not doing all that much. 2 role players and 1 perennially injured star.
Ugh. I'm not getting into this tired decrepit argument again. The payroll allocation thing??? Geezus. Has nothing to do with the players on the team and everything to do with the unique situation of our rebuild. Our best players aren't getting paid yet. Has nothing to do with Cuddyer or Granderson. They both got paid fair market value and plugged temporary holes.
I will say Wrights contract might be a problem going further but what were we supposed to do? Not re-sign Wright? The backlash from that would have been something the organization would have never been able to recover from.
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In comment 12294505 steve in ky said:
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And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder.
That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.
I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series.
I think it's a pretty big upgrade in CF. But I think if you are going to build a long term sustainable winner you need good young position prospects to coincide with your young pitching and we have exactly that. We just need to be patient. I think Cuddyer picks it up soon anyway but we'll see.
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In comment 12294516 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12294505 steve in ky said:
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And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder.
That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.
I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series.
I think it's a pretty big upgrade in CF. But I think if you are going to build a long term sustainable winner you need good young position prospects to coincide with your young pitching and we have exactly that. We just need to be patient. I think Cuddyer picks it up soon anyway but we'll see.
I agree and that is why I don't think they should trade away any of their pitching for a 29 year old CF at this point in time. If he was one of the last pieces to the puzzle that maybe would help them get over that last hump then sure. Kind like the Gary Carter trade. But they have too many other needs on the horizon for them to trade away surplus pitching for a CF upgrade over Lagares.
Just a fucking total lack of knowledge about any sport, it's blinding to be so stupid
Springer .183
Gattis .191
Valbuena .207
Rasmus .242
Castro .223
Carter .162
Gonzalws.228
We never know their full payroll flexibility/budget, we never know the alternatives that were on the table for them so unfortunately the only way WE can judge some of the moves the team makes is in hindsight after seeing things play out publicly. Knowing how much they committed to (and still are committed to) I think they could have made some smarter acquisitions with the resources they used.
oh the drama!!!!! Yeah, the organization never survived losing Seaver, Ryan, Strawberry, Reyes, etc, etc, etc. Just couldn't lose Wright my @ss. Now he's old and 3rd is a mess.
Just a fucking total lack of knowledge about any sport, it's blinding to be so stupid
Springer .183
Gattis .191
Valbuena .207
Rasmus .242
Castro .223
Carter .162
Gonzalws.228
Might want to check that head for a brain with Correa and others on the way while your just removed from predicting Granderson would bat .285 Like others have said, you're the dumbest on the site.
We never know their full payroll flexibility/budget, we never know the alternatives that were on the table for them so unfortunately the only way WE can judge some of the moves the team makes is in hindsight after seeing things play out publicly. Knowing how much they committed to (and still are committed to) I think they could have made some smarter acquisitions with the resources they used.
Right. And I honestly can't answer that right now. Granderson has been pretty good and I still think he's going to have a very solid 2015 when its all said and done. Cuddyer needs to pick it up and if he does then he'll look good too. Colon has obviously paid off. We'll see. I think they were all three of the best options available at the time and we desperately needed them to plug obvious holes so I can't fault the signings yet. They are all band aids and supposed to bridge a gap so some might work out, some might not. We'll see.
The Mets have zero outfield prospects since Lastings Milledge
Not looking to pile on Cuddyer but he really wasn't "doing okay", his BABIP was over .400, he was getting extremely lucky on balls in play.
That's what I'm thinking too. Classic first year in NY, other players are out, so try to do too much and overcompensate. Granderson for the first 6 weeks last year as well. I think he'll benefit a ton with Wright and TDA back. These injuries have been very unfortunate.
Exactly, that's the Mets plan. In fact, the Mets plan is worse. They kept a few vets around so they could finish with a miserable record but miss out on the top 5. Now they have two old corner outfielders and despite a few morons thinking that Grandy will bat .285 are in worse shape. Brilliant.
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after wright and d'Arnaud are back as he was doing ok when they were in there.
Not looking to pile on Cuddyer but he really wasn't "doing okay", his BABIP was over .400, he was getting extremely lucky on balls in play.
Eh. 9 days ago his wRC+ was still at 100. He absolutely needs to play better but he had a couple spurts early on where it seemed like he was about to come alive. It just hasn't happened.
Well I'm still taking solace in the fact that we've been playing with a roster ravaged with injuries and are tied for first place with the team everyone picked to win the WS. We still have things to look forward to on top of getting healthy, such as Matz. I still think we'll be in the mix at the end.
How many times do I have to post it? Been saying it for years. My plan was to break it down and part way with Wright b/c he would be old by the time the kids, if any, developed. They were going to finish the season with awful records regardless if he was here or not. Like the Knicks, who cares about a few meaningless wins? It could cost you ton down the road and it has.
At the beginning of the season if I was told we would lose DW and TDA to injures plus lose our closer and Wheeler and yet be tied for 1st at this point I would have been very happy.
I am more than content to allow Sandy time to best build around this young pitching staff. You only get the one chance to do it right so they are better of having the patience to do so. I don't expect them to win it all this season and I hope they don't make any trades based on that line of thinking. They had better not run out of patience when then end goal is finally getting within their grasp.
It might be hard to upgrade at SS without giving up one of our young studs, but if Cuddyer looks cooked 4-6 weeks from now, I think upgrading at corner OF is something we will/should look into.
The Knicks situation is an awful analogy.
The Knicks situation is an awful analogy.
Being he shot down the Astros which is a perfect comparison I tried the Knicks. Keeping David Wright and not breaking the whole thing down cost the Mets valuable talent for meaningless wins. That's a fact.
lol - you actually read his book? He won't be passive? He just gave up a #1 pick for old Cuddyer and has noodle arm Granderson in RF. Murphy still doesn't understand 2nd base better than a little leaguer and it was demonstrated again last night while Flores kicks the ball around the infield.
He's not going to sit huh? Cuddyer and Grandy aren't moving anywhere, who has any idea what he's doing with Murphy while Flores can't move to 3rd b/c of Wright might return someday. Passive is all SA is and you don't need an IVY League education to realize that or read that comical book about a guy who didn't build anything yet is entitled "Maverick".
Gomez
Murphy
Wright
Duda
TdA
Grandy/Cuddy
Flores
Lagares
Makes sense to some.
Well, he signed a fairly team friendly deal. That's not very Jeff like, is it?