NFT: MetS Minors 5/20/2015

Rafael Montero, their choice of Gee/Niese and Plawecki for Castro alone?

see Smith with some XBH's lately, but hard to see him profiling at 1B without some HRs. Still, got to start somewhere.

Cecchini is having a nice year so far. Good to see him establish himself as a legit prospect after a lot of us on bbi (myself included) wern't fans of the pick.

Conforto also appears to be starting to hit again.

Is Matz up tonight?

Here are a couple I've thought of with the Brewers, since they seem like their donezo:

Lagares/Montero for Gomez
(I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.)

Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M
(risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)

In comment 12294043 Metnut said:

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see Smith with some XBH's lately, but hard to see him profiling at 1B without some HRs. Still, got to start somewhere. Cecchini is having a nice year so far. Good to see him establish himself as a legit prospect after a lot of us on bbi (myself included) wern't fans of the pick. Conforto also appears to be starting to hit again. Is Matz up tonight?

LV has off today

Ynoa
TBD
Wieck

go today

the obvious offensive upgrade, in my opinion, has to be in left field. The guy looks shot. No bat speed, everything is a slow chopper to 3B. I am ok with wilmer at SS, he's looked decent the last few games and I think his offense will continue to improve as he gets comfortable in the league. Look at what Harper is doing after having a couple of average years despite the hype. Sometimes it takes these young hitters a little while to get acclimated to big league pitching. D'arnaud too, started out badly. Flores is holding his own, and he is just gushing with power potential. I can't justify trading murphy now, and i'm happy with granderson's production. But man, Cuddyer is just killing us. I would love to trade for Gomez or even Ryan Braun. What do you think it would take to get Braun?

Starlin Castro 0 WAR, wRC+ 74

Wilmer Flores 0.8 WAR, wRC+ 103

LOLZ!!!!!

In comment 12294044 Eric on Li said:

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Here are a couple I've thought of with the Brewers, since they seem like their donezo: Lagares/Montero for Gomez (I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.) Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M (risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)

I'd 100% do the top deal without much thought. Gomez is a game changer, love Lagares but Gomez is the kind of dynamic talent we need, badly. Still leaves you with a Conforto-Gomez-Granderson OF for 2016 which I would sign for. Gomez since 2012 121 OPS+ with 115 steals

In comment 12294044 Eric on Li said:

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Here are a couple I've thought of with the Brewers, since they seem like their donezo: Lagares/Montero for Gomez (I'd prefer to not deal Lagares and instead do Herrera or Plawecki, but with Lagares younger and signed this seems like something that would interest the Brewers. I'd hate to give up Lagares, but putting Gomez at the top of the lineup would be a huge upgrade offensively. Don't know what I'd do if this were offered.) Granderson/Montero/Mejia for Braun + 30M (risky, but high upside - Braun would be on a 5 year 70M contract and dump Granderson's 30M at the same time - would probably pass unless I knew I had a lot of payroll flexibility to outspend the potential mistake in the future.)

I actually like both these suggestions.

Lagares and Gomez in the same OF would be ridiculous. Obviously the suggestion involves swapping Lagares, but...

You could almost just play them LCF and RCF and use a 2 man OF (I'm not serious but they'd probably cover most of the ground without a 3rd guy)

Arc, the reason the deal upgrades our offense significantly is BECAUSE he's replacing Lagares. Granderson has been good, plain and simple and I still feel a Cuddyer hot streak coming. He's been treading water getting a hit a day anyway and it still too early to pull the plug.

I'm not in favor of trading the best defensive CF in baseball but for Gomez I would.

Granderson is going to be a terrible contract next year and in 2017. I expect him to be "OK" for the rest of this year but that's about it. Gomez in RF instead of Granderson would still make this team much better.

It's not going to happen because MIL wouldn't take him off our hands, but.. I would much rather have Lagares.

expected to miss roughly 3 weeks per Rubin

No biggie but I disagree. Gomez and Granderson are having almost identical seasons offensively and overall. I think Gomez loses much of his value in a corner.

.

Gomez has just as much power as Granderson and steals ~35 bases a year on top of it. He's also 5 years younger.

Gomez is a "game changing upgrade" to our offense in CF. Over Granderson in a corner? Not so much.

In comment 12294104 chris r said:

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.

+1

It's a Maverick tradition

when the best thing they say about your $20M is you're a good clubhouse influence you're not a good signing (so far).

the only problem i have with the Granderson signing is the years. I wouldn't have gone beyond 3 years. He fills a necessary role that I don't know where they would get otherwise, lead-off, obp, steady, but not great D, power.

Unless they broke the bank for Ellsbury or reacquired Reyes they need Granderson.

and ended up paying for the name rather than the player.

Cuddyer was just a terribly predictable signing. Seems like a good guy and all but I probably would have passed.

When they finally are just at the very beginning of being able to move forward building around what may be the best young pitching staff in baseball I certainly hope and expect that they have the patience to where they wouldn't trade the best defensive center fielder in the game.

In comment 12294306 arcarsenal said:

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Cuddyer was just a terribly predictable signing. Seems like a good guy and all but I probably would have passed.

Once the pick entered the equation I'd have agreed. Good role player for the price, but this team needed (needs) an impact player not role players.

In comment 12294306 arcarsenal said:

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Cuddyer was just a terribly predictable signing. Seems like a good guy and all but I probably would have passed.

Yep. I thought it would be a bad signing because he'd be on the shelf. Turns out his buddy DW is the injured one and not him. But he's doing so poorly, the team would probably be better off if he WAS on the DL..

In comment 12294314 steve in ky said:

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When they finally are just at the very beginning of being able to move forward building around what may be the best young pitching staff in baseball I certainly hope and expect that they have the patience to where they wouldn't trade the best defensive center fielder in the game.

steve,
Let's be fair here Gomez since 2013 is the 2nd best defensive CF in baseball and a FAR better offensive player than Lagares. It's not as if the Mets would take a hit in CF making that switch. Since 2013 Gomez is 2nd in UZR in CF, 2nd in total defense and 2nd in DRS.

IMO with the position the Mets are in any resources they trade away would be better spent bringing in offense to one of the corner OF spots. CF isn't a problem there doesn't need to be an upgrade there but the corners will need to be upgraded at some point.

I read somewhere that Castro is a bad clubhouse player and that the team and his teammates do not like him. Has anybody seen this perception? If that's the case, I would lean towards Baez, if available. It's curious that the rumors about the trade are more focused on their starting SS rather than someone on the bench who is not yet proven. I also don't think Alderson will want to give up any of the top pitchers either at the major or minor league levels. He can probably acquire a decent, not great, SS for alot less than a deGrom or Thor or Matz. Some combination of Niese, Gee, Murphyor Montero can bring a major league caliber SS.

I hope that 3 weeks means he's 100%.

In comment 12294398 Samiam said:

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I read somewhere that Castro is a bad clubhouse player and that the team and his teammates do not like him. Has anybody seen this perception? If that's the case, I would lean towards Baez, if available. It's curious that the rumors about the trade are more focused on their starting SS rather than someone on the bench who is not yet proven. I also don't think Alderson will want to give up any of the top pitchers either at the major or minor league levels. He can probably acquire a decent, not great, SS for alot less than a deGrom or Thor or Matz. Some combination of Niese, Gee, Murphyor Montero can bring a major league caliber SS.

Castro would be a downgrade from Flores. A pretty big one actually. Oh and let's just throw in the reigning rookie of the year/ace type player, one of the best catching prospects in the game, and solid 3/4 starter under control for the next 6 years for good measure. Sounds like a homerun!

In comment 12294343 steve in ky said:

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IMO with the position the Mets are in any resources they trade away would be better spent bringing in offense to one of the corner OF spots. CF isn't a problem there doesn't need to be an upgrade there but the corners will need to be upgraded at some point.

That's only true if you consider Cuddyer the player he has shown for the last 6 weeks and I do not. If you've already accepted that he has completely fell off in one year and is the next Jason Bay, then Id agree.. And at that point he likely IS replaced anyway.

If Cuddyer has a normal career year for his standards, he's still a very productive player and IMO we've seen flashes of that player already. He's still pressing and struggling as are others. Granderson has been more than solid.

are 34 and 36 years old and neither are the future for this team. After all these years of waiting the Mets are now finally in position to build this team around arguably the best young pitching staff in baseball. IMO using any surplus resources to package with the best defensive center field in the game for another CF three years older is not a smart way to build the team when there are glaring needs on the horizon. The net gain at that one position still ends up being a net loss for the organization moving forward.

This is their chance to do it right and try to build a great team that can contend for many years to come. Teams only have so much surplus talent and trading away any of it in a package with Lagares for Gomez at this point in time would probably benefit someone's fantasy team but not the Mets long term. They simply don't have that luxury and the need at CF is not that great of a need for them. If it would be the last piece of the puzzle than maybe but they simply have too many other needs that will have to be addressed an improved upon.

His last 2 non-Coors Field season in Minnesota:
2010 (157 GP) - 56 XBH (14 HRs) / 81 RBIs
2011 (139 GP) - 51 XBH (20 HRs) / 70 RBIs

His current projection
2015 (154 GP) - 36 XBH (12 HRs) / 70 RBIs

His BA & XBH are down, but if he has a couple of hot weeks they will be right back in their more typical paces. Assuming he stays healthy I would be very surprised if he doesn't hit his career norms of a .270 BA, 12-15 HR, and 70-80 RBIs. Nobody should have expected his Coors Field numbers.

Was to exhaust extremely high first round picks on two corner outfield spots with an ETA around late 2015/2016 and if you believe in your high first round picks(what organization wouldn't), Cuddyer and Granderson make perfect sense. This is a long term outlook and I think we are set up fine as of today.

And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder.

In comment 12294501 Eric on Li said:

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His last 2 non-Coors Field season in Minnesota: 2010 (157 GP) - 56 XBH (14 HRs) / 81 RBIs 2011 (139 GP) - 51 XBH (20 HRs) / 70 RBIs His current projection 2015 (154 GP) - 36 XBH (12 HRs) / 70 RBIs His BA & XBH are down, but if he has a couple of hot weeks they will be right back in their more typical paces. Assuming he stays healthy I would be very surprised if he doesn't hit his career norms of a .270 BA, 12-15 HR, and 70-80 RBIs. Nobody should have expected his Coors Field numbers.

Yup exactly. And in fact we had that EXACT conversation here many times that Cuddyer would likely produce his career norms and most here said they would sign up for that.

In comment 12294505 steve in ky said:

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And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder.

That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.

I'm not down on Cuddyer. My only point is that he is 36 and age needs be taken into account. He is not the future he is a guy that they could sign to service the position until they find the answer. There is a need that will have top be filled at that position.

I don't think we can say with any certainty that he'll absolutely bounce back to his career norms. He is 36. That "hot streak" might not come.

Not out of the realm of possibility that he could be done...

for that exact reason (wasn't likely to replicate his Coors field numbers).

There are 2 things crippling this team's ability to improve and make moves right now.

$20M (20% of the payroll) and getting nothing out of Wright.

$25M (25% of the payroll) and getting at best average players in both COF positions.

That's half of the payroll in key hitting positions not doing all that much. 2 role players and 1 perennially injured star.

Cuddyer is a hot week or two from being right back on track but he does need to pick it up soon. Too early to tell either way.

In comment 12294518 steve in ky said:

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I'm not down on Cuddyer. My only point is that he is 36 and age needs be taken into account. He is not the future he is a guy that they could sign to service the position until they find the answer. There is a need that will have top be filled at that position.

I totally agree with this. He was a temporary bandaid, and perhaps the best value of the available options, but so far he has not been the massive addition the organization has made him out to be. And it's not because he had a Jason Bay-like decline. He is what is (and it's commensurate with his salary). I'm mostly presenting the case against anyone who hyped him up as something more.

In comment 12294516 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12294505 steve in ky said: Quote: And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder. That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot.

I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series.

Hold onto Wright too long and tie up money in both corner outfield positions.

Meanwhile in Houston, a clinic on how to break it down to the floor and build it up faster than SA. A few promotions on the way and FOUR draft picks before the Mets select one player.

In comment 12294522 Eric on Li said:

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for that exact reason (wasn't likely to replicate his Coors field numbers). There are 2 things crippling this team's ability to improve and make moves right now. $20M (20% of the payroll) and getting nothing out of Wright. $25M (25% of the payroll) and getting at best average players in both COF positions. That's half of the payroll in key hitting positions not doing all that much. 2 role players and 1 perennially injured star.

Ugh. I'm not getting into this tired decrepit argument again. The payroll allocation thing??? Geezus. Has nothing to do with the players on the team and everything to do with the unique situation of our rebuild. Our best players aren't getting paid yet. Has nothing to do with Cuddyer or Granderson. They both got paid fair market value and plugged temporary holes.

I will say Wrights contract might be a problem going further but what were we supposed to do? Not re-sign Wright? The backlash from that would have been something the organization would have never been able to recover from.

In comment 12294527 steve in ky said:

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In comment 12294516 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12294505 steve in ky said: Quote: And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder. That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot. I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series.

I think it's a pretty big upgrade in CF. But I think if you are going to build a long term sustainable winner you need good young position prospects to coincide with your young pitching and we have exactly that. We just need to be patient. I think Cuddyer picks it up soon anyway but we'll see.

In comment 12294538 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12294527 steve in ky said: Quote: In comment 12294516 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12294505 steve in ky said: Quote: And just to be clear, I don't disagree with you about Cuddyer in that it is much to early to conclude anything about him yet for this season. My only point is that there are some real glaring needs moving forward in addition to many unanswered question in the infield. I don't think they should be in a rush to trade away any of their chips but when they do it shouldn't be for another center fielder. That's cool. I don't think Lagares bat is magically going to come alive or get better. I love the guy but he's basically the only player in the entire lineup I don't see getting much better over the course of the season. I'll be thrilled if he's at 101 wRC+ again but I doubt it. Gomez over Lagares gives us an obvious upgrade. I don't know if Gomez is a massive upgrade over Cuddyer/Granderson yet and he loses a ton of value in a corner spot. I guess I'm thinking more long term than Cuddyer/Granderson and how best to build the team around this young talented pitching staff. Trading away a pitching prospect with Largares for Gomez probably does help them a little this season. I don't think it gets them closer to winning a world series. I think it's a pretty big upgrade in CF. But I think if you are going to build a long term sustainable winner you need good young position prospects to coincide with your young pitching and we have exactly that. We just need to be patient. I think Cuddyer picks it up soon anyway but we'll see.

I agree and that is why I don't think they should trade away any of their pitching for a 29 year old CF at this point in time. If he was one of the last pieces to the puzzle that maybe would help them get over that last hump then sure. Kind like the Gary Carter trade. But they have too many other needs on the horizon for them to trade away surplus pitching for a CF upgrade over Lagares.

Altuve is hitting .317 Marisnick .292

Just a fucking total lack of knowledge about any sport, it's blinding to be so stupid

Springer .183
Gattis .191
Valbuena .207
Rasmus .242
Castro .223
Carter .162
Gonzalws.228

would you agree that they could have spent the aggregate 82M they spent on CG and MC the past 2 years better (25M/year)?

We never know their full payroll flexibility/budget, we never know the alternatives that were on the table for them so unfortunately the only way WE can judge some of the moves the team makes is in hindsight after seeing things play out publicly. Knowing how much they committed to (and still are committed to) I think they could have made some smarter acquisitions with the resources they used.

The key to this entire year would be Duda. He's been good but he isn't hitting for power. We are in deep shit if he isn't the slugger we thought he was and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed so far. Too many players are underperforming with two of our big bats out and yes Cuddyer is as well.

In comment 12294531 ZGiants98 said:

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but what were we supposed to do? Not re-sign Wright? The backlash from that would have been something the organization would have never been able to recover from.

oh the drama!!!!! Yeah, the organization never survived losing Seaver, Ryan, Strawberry, Reyes, etc, etc, etc. Just couldn't lose Wright my @ss. Now he's old and 3rd is a mess.