As of now, there are really only 4 prospects I think the Knicks are choosing between: Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, and Kristaps Porwhateveritis. And in reality we will only get to choose between 3 because the sixers will take one of those off the board. If there is someone I am neglecting, please let me know, but it seems that there is a huge drop off after those. I know that Mario guy in Spain looks like a freak of nature but I am not sure if he is someone you gamble on with the 3rd pick.
But one thing seems to be certain: we won't be getting a center through the draft. I am hoping we land Monroe but I hope he plays the 4 because we will desperately need a rim protector if we are rolling out Monroe and Melo together.
I think the chances on Aldridge, Gasol, and Jordan are slim because even in the slim chance they do leave their current teams, those guys are at the point in their respective careers where they are going for a contending team rather than the Knicks.
So here is a list of guys I think we are going to go after in the offseason (some will get ruled out based on who we draft). I think all of the big name restricted FAs will get matched, so I am not including any of those:
1. Monroe (offense/rebounding, probably receives a max)
2. Wes Matthews (could be a high risk/reward option. Might not end up spending that much in FA, if he can be 75% of what he was on defense he'd be an improvement)
3. Kyle O'Quinn (not many will agree with me I'm sure but he is a rim protector and can hit 3's; he is restricted so it might cost a lot to pull him away but I think it may be worth it)
4. Asik/Rob Lopez/Koufos (Sort of the Mozgov-type bigs, defense and rebounding)
5. Brandan Wright (was a 20 and 10 guy on a per 36 basis in Dallas, doesn't bring much rim protection but his efficiency is ridiculous)
6. Thad Young/Brandon Bass (if we can't get Monroe)
7. Afflalo/Gerald Green (guard market is barren, might be the most appealing if they don't take the player option)
8. Aaron Brooks/Mo williams (if we don't get Mudiay, if we get Russel we can move him to the 2 in this case)
9. Big Al/Brook Lopez (if we don't get Monroe and they both opt out)
Who do you think we go for?
You do know that his max is only 15 million first year so by next year his deal is going to look like a mid level deal..
Also after signing him Knicks would have another 13 million to add more pieces..
We can't give Monroe a max and then give a max to any of those 3 guys this year, especially with Calderon still under contract.
Yeah I mentioned that. He also doesn't provide spacing so I think bringing in O'quinn can add rim protection and shooting.
The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.
You sign him you still have 13 million to play with maybe more if you can trade Calderon and THJR or cut Calderon and stretch provision his contract...
Mudiay
Melo
Monroe
then add a defensive center and some depth with money you have left you definitely have a playoff team in the east...
then another 20 million or so the following year...
you NEED a defensive center though if you sign Monroe...
Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik
Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?
The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.
Good points. While Monroe isn't a rim protector he isn't too shabby of a post defender. My worry with R Lopez is that he is going to have many options so I don't know how reliable it is to bank on him coming.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.
the roster was VERY bare.
Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues
Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out
Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap
Just keep repeating history.
Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues
Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out
Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap
Just keep repeating history.
new regime new leadership...have faith...stop freaking out over things that have not even happened yet...
Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik
Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?
NO gave up a 1st round pick to get Asik for 1 year and their defensive ratings were really good when they put Davis and Asik together. I can see them easily giving him $12 M a year at the least to retain him.
But that does bring up Alexis Ajinca, Asik's backup. He is a better offensive player. His per 36 #s were 16.7 PPG, 12 RPG and 2 blocks per game as well as a 20 PER. He is 7'1 and 26. I wouldn't mind giving him a $10M a year offer.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.
the roster was VERY bare.
Your right i should of said IF they get the right pieces for depth they should be a playoff team...
Mudiay Melo and Monroe is a good start though...
Just have to wait and see...
Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.
@Italianju
The problem I have with Mudiay, Monroe, and Asik is the lack of shooting. We are relying on Melo and Matthews in that case for all the shooting period, not just 3 pointers. That type of spacing would be worse than Pistons with JSmoove. I'm kinda hoping we get Russel or Winslow so Monroe would be a better fit.
Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.
Maybe? maybe Dolan hired him to test out things for the Knicks on the liberty to see if it works...
you know like how the NFL had the NHL delay a game to see if fans will stay in the cold weather becuase of the super bowl?
i guess you just never know
I sure hope so. A quick look around the league and I don't see any team that has success with a PG that can't shoot. John Wall couldn't shoot 3s but he had a workable mid-range shot coming into the league that Mudiay does not have in the least. And its been what, 4 or 5 years and Wall still doesn't have an average 3 point shot? We can't wait that long on Mudiay, who doesn't even have Wall's vision or high level defense. He looks like a poor man's Wall to me. He will be good but that can still be 5-6 years from now.
It just doesn't seem the league is built for PG's like Rubio, MCW or Rondo anymore.
If NO wants to pay asik anywhere near 12 mill then there is no chance we get him. I was thinking something like 8 max.
Go read one of Woj's articles all of them are biased, whether it is towards players, agents or teams....he only writes good things about the the peole that leak him information, so if your a team that doesnt leak info to him he hates you...
look at what he wrote about Donnie Walsh
Ummm there are players who said they talked to Phil in Chicago...
I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.
This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.
I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.
This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.
The problem with Russell is he is going to have a lot of trouble creating his own shot and getting into the lane, he is not quick enough to get by people...
Also he is not quick enough to stay in front of the quicker guards in the NBA...
Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.
Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?
I dont want to draft a PG that you need to create shots for that should be his job...
Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.
Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?
Porzingis is less physically developed than Anthony Davis
He might be the least physically developed draft eligible player I've ever seen.
and obviously not the same caliber of athlete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUKdhoTMK6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acfj-vhpOXc
Link - ( New Window )
Bingo.
Quote:
Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.
Bingo.
Yeah pretty much. The narrative of this draft was going to change this morning depending on where the Knicks ended up. If they got the top choice, all of a sudden it would be a shitty class from top to bottom.
And Davis lost a lot of that athleticism when he hurt his knee....
I loved prime Davis, i wanted him so bad on the Knicks when he was a free agent and there were rumors that he wanted to come to the Knicks...
Davis was just fun to watch and had that competitive edge...
Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.
Quote:
good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?
Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.
He's a good two way player too.
Option 2 Trade for the 16th this year and the number one that they own from brooklyn for next year. And they take Calderon
I love Devon booker's upside reminds me of klay Thompson a little bit. I think upshaw could be worth the risk as a late first and I think rakeem Christmas could come in right away and give solid minutes at PF.
I would be happy with either one of these trades assuming Calderon included
I'd still consider taking him. I know that he's probably two years away but some are saying he's the best overall prospect in the entire draft.
Yeah... and this is from Chad Ford's analysis of him on ESPN.com:
The Vesely part isn't good.
Based on what?
Russell is the better passer and shooter
Mudiay is more athletic, can break down a defense better, better defender, quicker, will not have trouble getting by his defender and will not let people just drive right by him...
Russell is going to have trouble creating his own shot in the NBA and getting into the lane, he may be the better passer but he is going to have trouble creating for others without picks...
Mudiay can find the open man, he is good once he breaks down the defense...
Stop trading assets to move bad contracts, as if there is a fucking herd of UFAs looking to get in on this shit show.
Those Boston proposals are a solid, solid pass from me (that's the nice way of putting it).
Larry Bird loves WIllie Stein.
IMO, Winslow might just be the best player on the table but the Knicks desperately need a PG or C. Russell or Mudiay, I'd take whoever is left on the board.
I trust Russell's offensive floor and Triangle fit a lot more than I do Mudiay's, but Mudiay definitely has the higher ceiling as a 2-way player. I rank Russell a hair higher just because I've seen him more and trust his competition more.
Knocks need a slot of pieces and if they are not convinced on mudiay or Winslow they they should trade down. Booker would be your future shooting guard for the next decade you pick up a few other pieces, save cap money from 4th pick to 16th and dump Calderon freeing up potentially enough money for 2 near max contracts. I can understand if you really like mudiay or someone and prefer that route, that's fine but to act like this is a crazy trade idea means you don't know much. They need so many positions filled, Christmas and upshaw could be valuable pieces
Shaun Livingston is as slow as they come for PGs and he dropped what, 20 points last night in the WCF?
Its sounding as if Russel is going to be one of the most unathletic players in the NBA and thats an over exaggeration. He's not spectacular, but he's average. Hes not quick, but he is shifty and can create space.
That being said, the argument can be made for Russel or Mudiay, and most likely the decision will be made for us when we are on the board. I have no qualms about which one we get because I am confident both will be great players in their own right.
I think Booker goes before 16, but the dude cannot create his own shot right now, he is a spot up shooter. He's being compared to klay in terms of play style and not actual ceiling. He is nowhere near the defender Klay is and he also cannot create with the ball in his hands. He is a spot up shooter.
I liked Christmas in college but there is a good reason why he isn't even projected as a 1st rounder. He is undersized and cannot shoot. He is not athletic either and cannot protect the rim. He is truly a college big and many are saying he is going to end up overseas sooner rather than later.
That is a must this off-season. Whether it's a combination of:
WCS/Monroe/FA PG
Mudiay/DeAndre Jordan/Monroe
Russell/Draymond Green/Marc Gasol
the last two are unlikely. If we don't have big men, playing these games are a waste of time. I probably wont watch the Knicks this season based on last night but still hope they do well. But too much heartache. I'm jumping ship.
IT's beyond toxic at this point. Bravo NY media, you've made your mark. Keep on fighting the good fight by shitting all over everything Knicks all because Dolan won't roll out fresh fruit on media day. Really, that's what this has always been about...if you believe it's about wins and losses I have a bridge to sell you.
Stop listening to Frank Isola and SAS and just sit back wait to see what happens..
Fuck off.
IT's beyond toxic at this point. Bravo NY media, you've made your mark. Keep on fighting the good fight by shitting all over everything Knicks all because Dolan won't roll out fresh fruit on media day. Really, that's what this has always been about...if you believe it's about wins and losses I have a bridge to sell you.
Of course that is what it is about...
The NY media loved Walsh and he was horrible with the Knicks, they loved him because he basically told them everything...
Now Phil is here and there are no leaks none of them have an inside source and they are all bitter, especially Frank Isola...he is no access that is why he continuously writes the same crap...he is spewing how Phil did not do anything at the combine....really? he met with almost all of the prospects...
It is the same thing with Woj, he writes complimentary pieces on the teams that give him information and rips the teams that gives him no access...notice he never breaks Knicks news never...
Fuck off.
Lol it is the same thing after Lin was not matched, fans freaked out and said they were done with this team...then they went on to win 54 games...
Apparently the Knicks should have kept the "core" together because the Knicks could be as good as the Hawks if they did. Isola's words...not mine. The hawks did it why not the Knicks? Jackson just wrecked this team and got nothing to show for it...his words..
Of course he did
That being said... I can't control that. He's the owner. The Knicks are my team. I am going to hope for the best and get whatever enjoyment out of it that I can. That's what I can control.
I wish we could just get some objective coverage of the team. I don't need to be reminded that Dolan likes Isiah anymore.
THERE WAS NO REASON TO WIN THOSE GAMES. 0, nada, not one reason. For those saying they're playing for their careers...No one is going to judge them on two games. Not to mention they contracts.
They stunk it up all season long and have the audacity to play like all stars and go balls out on two games that the team actually needed them to lose. The lottery was indicative of the stupidity that played out in the last two games. The Knicks brought it on themselves.
And most knicks fans wanted Russel or Mudiay anyway so you should be happy but for those who clearly disagree don't say the Knicks couldn't have put themselves in a better position last night.
We're getting agreat player.
Apparently the Knicks should have kept the "core" together because the Knicks could be as good as the Hawks if they did. Isola's words...not mine. The hawks did it why not the Knicks? Jackson just wrecked this team and got nothing to show for it...his words..
What core???????
Chandler, who quit on the team the year before?
Shump, who showed tiny increments of improvement in 3 years?
JR Smith? No, seriously was part of the core?
Isola seriously needs a gigantic bag of STFU.
Every team.
It's weird.
The Knicks, on the other hand, are hated for the reason Dan says - their media policies for the most part. That's why sad little Frank Isola has done nothing but churn out hit pieces for a decade. And that's not to say that there aren't a million things to criticize the Knicks for, but he has such an obvious personal bias because of his hatred for the way MSG handles the media.
Then there was this article on Woj not all that long ago :
The article is basically how he plays nice with agents/teams that give him information, and doesn't play as nice to those who keep information away from him.
woj article - ( New Window )
Anyways, as for the Knicks, you give me either PG and I'm happy. I pray the Lakers take Okafor or the sixers draft KP.
I wouldn't mind us throwing $40M+ at Ajincas, I think he can be a Hassan Whiteside type signing.
--Chandler deal: Chandler was unhappy here, and disappeared for all playoff games. Plus he is now an UFA. So they gave up one year of Chandler and got in return Calderon, Greek Kid 2, and Early. Much too early to judge the kids and Calderon, when healthy is a quality combo guard. Could he have gotten more, I doubt it -- if he could have he would have. Contrary to Frank Isola, he's not stupid.
--Smith/Shumpert for well, nothing really. But Smith is off the payroll and is no longer a distraction. Smith had not played well for the Knicks since his knee injury (even he said he went out too much) and Shumpert was usually hurt when with the Knicks. So yes, playing with Lebron, for half a year, they have done well. I'd still do that deal.
Now with the fourth pick in the draft, and massive cap space, let's see what Jackson does.
Every team.
It's weird.
I never said there's an anti NYG or Yankee or Rangers bias from the local media. And there isn't. There was an anti coughlin agenda back in 2004-2007 but that's passed.
There is clearly an anti Dolan msg agenda and since Dolan is an easy target it's hard to argue but at times it's over the top ridiculous.
It doesn't even bother me. Rarely do I ever sit down and read an article about my team. The only material I'll read is Zach Lowes, and that's because he's just so far ahead of everyone else it's silly. I used to read some of Mike Garafolo's stuff too when he covered the Giants.