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NFT: Knicks Thread: Draft Lottery impact on FA

giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 10:56 am
As of now, there are really only 4 prospects I think the Knicks are choosing between: Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, and Kristaps Porwhateveritis. And in reality we will only get to choose between 3 because the sixers will take one of those off the board. If there is someone I am neglecting, please let me know, but it seems that there is a huge drop off after those. I know that Mario guy in Spain looks like a freak of nature but I am not sure if he is someone you gamble on with the 3rd pick.

But one thing seems to be certain: we won't be getting a center through the draft. I am hoping we land Monroe but I hope he plays the 4 because we will desperately need a rim protector if we are rolling out Monroe and Melo together.

I think the chances on Aldridge, Gasol, and Jordan are slim because even in the slim chance they do leave their current teams, those guys are at the point in their respective careers where they are going for a contending team rather than the Knicks.

So here is a list of guys I think we are going to go after in the offseason (some will get ruled out based on who we draft). I think all of the big name restricted FAs will get matched, so I am not including any of those:

1. Monroe (offense/rebounding, probably receives a max)
2. Wes Matthews (could be a high risk/reward option. Might not end up spending that much in FA, if he can be 75% of what he was on defense he'd be an improvement)
3. Kyle O'Quinn (not many will agree with me I'm sure but he is a rim protector and can hit 3's; he is restricted so it might cost a lot to pull him away but I think it may be worth it)
4. Asik/Rob Lopez/Koufos (Sort of the Mozgov-type bigs, defense and rebounding)
5. Brandan Wright (was a 20 and 10 guy on a per 36 basis in Dallas, doesn't bring much rim protection but his efficiency is ridiculous)
6. Thad Young/Brandon Bass (if we can't get Monroe)
7. Afflalo/Gerald Green (guard market is barren, might be the most appealing if they don't take the player option)
8. Aaron Brooks/Mo williams (if we don't get Mudiay, if we get Russel we can move him to the 2 in this case)
9. Big Al/Brook Lopez (if we don't get Monroe and they both opt out)

Who do you think we go for?
nobody on that list  
theold5j : 5/20/2015 11:01 am : link
really gets the juices flowing. i dont know. maybe Monroe would be good or Matthews. None of them are game breakers. Someone is going to give a max deal to Monroe. That would make Allan Houston's deal look good.
Add Aldridge, Gasol, or Jordan  
giants#1 : 5/20/2015 11:04 am : link
to a team with Melo/Monro/#4 pick and they are an instant contender in the East. You could probably argue those 3 would have an easier time getting to the Finals via the East compared to re-signing with their current teams.

RE: nobody on that list  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:05 am : link
In comment 12294162 theold5j said:
Quote:
really gets the juices flowing. i dont know. maybe Monroe would be good or Matthews. None of them are game breakers. Someone is going to give a max deal to Monroe. That would make Allan Houston's deal look good.


You do know that his max is only 15 million first year so by next year his deal is going to look like a mid level deal..

Also after signing him Knicks would have another 13 million to add more pieces..
Completely Agree  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:06 am : link
I don't think we go balls to the wall for anyone this year. But one thing to remember is the cap is going to skyrocket in successive years so a max contract now will look 20-30% better in the coming years. So Monroe may not truly be a "max" guy but after next season, Monroe would be getting paid what he is truly worth with the cap increases accounted for.
problem  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/20/2015 11:07 am : link
with Monroe is he's not much of a rim protector as a 5. Him and melo as your 4 and 5 is a terribly weak front line defensively. I actually think Lopez is the better fit albeit the bigger risk with his foot.
RE: Add Aldridge, Gasol, or Jordan  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:07 am : link
In comment 12294166 giants#1 said:
Quote:
to a team with Melo/Monro/#4 pick and they are an instant contender in the East. You could probably argue those 3 would have an easier time getting to the Finals via the East compared to re-signing with their current teams.


We can't give Monroe a max and then give a max to any of those 3 guys this year, especially with Calderon still under contract.
RE: problem  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:09 am : link
In comment 12294172 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
with Monroe is he's not much of a rim protector as a 5. Him and melo as your 4 and 5 is a terribly weak front line defensively. I actually think Lopez is the better fit albeit the bigger risk with his foot.


Yeah I mentioned that. He also doesn't provide spacing so I think bringing in O'quinn can add rim protection and shooting.
I continue to believe...  
manh george : 5/20/2015 11:11 am : link
that Jackson tries to monetize a part of next year's cap jump by signing at least one quality player to a one year deal with a player option for next year to protect the player, with the expectation of a bigger deal next year.
finding a defensive big..  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:14 am : link
to put next to Monroe should not be difficult. Monroe's skill set is much harder to find. Sign him and then go with the an asik or Lopez. I think Lopez would be a great fit next to Monroe.

The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 11:18 am : link
like O'Quinn and wouldn't mind looking at Biyombo.
We really need Russell to fall to us  
PA Giant Fan : 5/20/2015 11:19 am : link
Need that shooter who can distribute.
The one thing i like about getting Monroe  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:20 am : link
is his age...how often does a 24 year old player become an UFA? not often...

You sign him you still have 13 million to play with maybe more if you can trade Calderon and THJR or cut Calderon and stretch provision his contract...

Mudiay
Melo
Monroe

then add a defensive center and some depth with money you have left you definitely have a playoff team in the east...

then another 20 million or so the following year...

you NEED a defensive center though if you sign Monroe...
I wonder how much...  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:24 am : link
the injury will cost Mathews. If we could somehow get him with Monroe and still have some leftover for one of the cheaper defensive bigs that would be a very strong offseason. I honestly have no idea how much guys like Asik, Lopez, Biyombo, etc.. will command. id love Monroe, Mathews, and asik, but not sure if that is realistic.

Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik

Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?
RE: finding a defensive big..  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:25 am : link
In comment 12294187 Italianju said:
Quote:
to put next to Monroe should not be difficult. Monroe's skill set is much harder to find. Sign him and then go with the an asik or Lopez. I think Lopez would be a great fit next to Monroe.

The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.


Good points. While Monroe isn't a rim protector he isn't too shabby of a post defender. My worry with R Lopez is that he is going to have many options so I don't know how reliable it is to bank on him coming.
why is that a playoff team in the east?  
hitdog42 : 5/20/2015 11:26 am : link
the east stinks but neither Indiana or charlotte made the playoffs last year, both will be improved-- it makes them a playoff contender with about 5 other teams sniffing the bottom 7-8 seeds.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.

the roster was VERY bare.
We've seen this movie more often than Star Wars  
Giants2012 : 5/20/2015 11:27 am : link
Knicks stink and have cap issues

Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues

Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out

Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap

Just keep repeating history.
RE: We've seen this movie more often than Star Wars  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:29 am : link
In comment 12294213 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Knicks stink and have cap issues

Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues

Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out

Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap

Just keep repeating history.


new regime new leadership...have faith...stop freaking out over things that have not even happened yet...
RE: I wonder how much...  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:30 am : link
In comment 12294205 Italianju said:
Quote:
the injury will cost Mathews. If we could somehow get him with Monroe and still have some leftover for one of the cheaper defensive bigs that would be a very strong offseason. I honestly have no idea how much guys like Asik, Lopez, Biyombo, etc.. will command. id love Monroe, Mathews, and asik, but not sure if that is realistic.

Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik

Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?


NO gave up a 1st round pick to get Asik for 1 year and their defensive ratings were really good when they put Davis and Asik together. I can see them easily giving him $12 M a year at the least to retain him.

But that does bring up Alexis Ajinca, Asik's backup. He is a better offensive player. His per 36 #s were 16.7 PPG, 12 RPG and 2 blocks per game as well as a 20 PER. He is 7'1 and 26. I wouldn't mind giving him a $10M a year offer.
RE: why is that a playoff team in the east?  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:31 am : link
In comment 12294209 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the east stinks but neither Indiana or charlotte made the playoffs last year, both will be improved-- it makes them a playoff contender with about 5 other teams sniffing the bottom 7-8 seeds.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.

the roster was VERY bare.


Your right i should of said IF they get the right pieces for depth they should be a playoff team...

Mudiay Melo and Monroe is a good start though...

Just have to wait and see...
nyg16  
Giants2012 : 5/20/2015 11:31 am : link
thanks for reminding me. Add in new leadership and regime.

Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.
WOJ on WFAN  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:34 am : link
just said it is a 3 player draft and he thinks Mudiay is out of shape...
nygiants16  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:34 am : link
Thank you. With all the s**t the Knicks and jackson have been getting, this is the first time they can build around Melo without having to force STAT to fit in and his contract eating space. Plus having a top 5 pick and a nearly empty roster to do it is a good bonus.

@Italianju

The problem I have with Mudiay, Monroe, and Asik is the lack of shooting. We are relying on Melo and Matthews in that case for all the shooting period, not just 3 pointers. That type of spacing would be worse than Pistons with JSmoove. I'm kinda hoping we get Russel or Winslow so Monroe would be a better fit.
RE: nyg16  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:35 am : link
In comment 12294222 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
thanks for reminding me. Add in new leadership and regime.

Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.


Maybe? maybe Dolan hired him to test out things for the Knicks on the liberty to see if it works...

you know like how the NFL had the NHL delay a game to see if fans will stay in the cold weather becuase of the super bowl?

i guess you just never know
I think there is a decent chance that Russell falls to the Knicks  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/20/2015 11:37 am : link
the Sixers GM Hinkie seems to love upside and Mudiay has higher upside.
RE: I think there is a decent chance that Russell falls to the Knicks  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:44 am : link
In comment 12294234 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
the Sixers GM Hinkie seems to love upside and Mudiay has higher upside.


I sure hope so. A quick look around the league and I don't see any team that has success with a PG that can't shoot. John Wall couldn't shoot 3s but he had a workable mid-range shot coming into the league that Mudiay does not have in the least. And its been what, 4 or 5 years and Wall still doesn't have an average 3 point shot? We can't wait that long on Mudiay, who doesn't even have Wall's vision or high level defense. He looks like a poor man's Wall to me. He will be good but that can still be 5-6 years from now.

It just doesn't seem the league is built for PG's like Rubio, MCW or Rondo anymore.
Albeit smal sample size  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:47 am : link
he shot 49% from 2 and 35% from 3...not horrible at all...
If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:50 am : link
Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.

If NO wants to pay asik anywhere near 12 mill then there is no chance we get him. I was thinking something like 8 max.
exactly Woj hates the knicks  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:52 am : link
because they have never leaked anything to him....

Go read one of Woj's articles all of them are biased, whether it is towards players, agents or teams....he only writes good things about the the peole that leak him information, so if your a team that doesnt leak info to him he hates you...

look at what he wrote about Donnie Walsh
and SAS making shit up as usual  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:57 am : link
saying Phil didnt go to the pre draft camp in Chicago so the Knicks do not know who to draft....

Ummm there are players who said they talked to Phil in Chicago...
nygiants16  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:58 am : link
Really? Maybe I am overreacting then. How is China's 3 line in comparison to college and NBA? Isn't it somewhere in between the two? Either way that's not awful. I just like the intangibles Russel brings. He can win games on his own. I think hes a 6'5 version of Kyle Lowry.

I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.

This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.
Porzingis  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 11:59 am : link
is the least physically developed projected high pick I can remember in quite a few years.
RE: nygiants16  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:00 pm : link
In comment 12294263 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Really? Maybe I am overreacting then. How is China's 3 line in comparison to college and NBA? Isn't it somewhere in between the two? Either way that's not awful. I just like the intangibles Russel brings. He can win games on his own. I think hes a 6'5 version of Kyle Lowry.

I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.

This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.


The problem with Russell is he is going to have a lot of trouble creating his own shot and getting into the lane, he is not quick enough to get by people...

Also he is not quick enough to stay in front of the quicker guards in the NBA...
DanMetro  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 12:11 pm : link
Anthony Davis? Dude was a STICK. KD is also up there. Dwight Howard was skinny compared to where he is now. But you are right. But if you are tall, can shoot, and that athletic, teams will do whatever they can strength training wise. It will be a few years for him to get acclimated.

Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.

Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?
Ehh i would rather have the PG  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:13 pm : link
that can break down the defense and either finish for himself or find the open man...Melo is better playing off a player that can create easy shots for him rather than him creating shots for others....

I dont want to draft a PG that you need to create shots for that should be his job...
RE: DanMetro  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:20 pm : link
In comment 12294290 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Anthony Davis? Dude was a STICK. KD is also up there. Dwight Howard was skinny compared to where he is now. But you are right. But if you are tall, can shoot, and that athletic, teams will do whatever they can strength training wise. It will be a few years for him to get acclimated.

Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.

Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?


Porzingis is less physically developed than Anthony Davis







He might be the least physically developed draft eligible player I've ever seen.

and obviously not the same caliber of athlete
Davis  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:21 pm : link


Some full games of Mudiay  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:28 pm : link
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUKdhoTMK6g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acfj-vhpOXc
Link - ( New Window )
RE: If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12294255 Italianju said:
Quote:
Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.


Bingo.
RE: RE: If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
bceagle05 : 5/20/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12294311 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 12294255 Italianju said:


Quote:


Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.



Bingo.


Yeah pretty much. The narrative of this draft was going to change this morning depending on where the Knicks ended up. If they got the top choice, all of a sudden it would be a shitty class from top to bottom.
Mudiay  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:39 pm : link
does remind me a bit of Baron Davis
B-Diddy  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:41 pm : link
was never a great 3 point shooter but I think 100% of us would take Davis 2.0 at #4 overall
The nexus of Phil Jackson hate, Knicks hate, Dolan hate, and NY  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 12:43 pm : link
hate by the media has been something to behold. It seems like they're trying to one-up each other in complete stupidity passed as unbiased reporting.
RE: Mudiay  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12294319 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
does remind me a bit of Baron Davis


And Davis lost a lot of that athleticism when he hurt his knee....

I loved prime Davis, i wanted him so bad on the Knicks when he was a free agent and there were rumors that he wanted to come to the Knicks...

Davis was just fun to watch and had that competitive edge...
I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
Meats and Cheeses : 5/20/2015 12:48 pm : link
good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?
RE: I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12294336 Meats and Cheeses said:
Quote:
good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?


Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.
RE: RE: I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 12:50 pm : link
In comment 12294338 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12294336 Meats and Cheeses said:


Quote:


good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?



Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.


He's a good two way player too.
2 Trade ideas with Boston  
GMEN46 : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
Option 1 Trade Boston the 4th pick for their 16th pick this year - draft Devon booker, there 28th pick this year and take a chance on Robert upshaw, there second rd pick this year from Phili and take rakeem Christmas and make them take Calderon.

Option 2 Trade for the 16th this year and the number one that they own from brooklyn for next year. And they take Calderon

I love Devon booker's upside reminds me of klay Thompson a little bit. I think upshaw could be worth the risk as a late first and I think rakeem Christmas could come in right away and give solid minutes at PF.

I would be happy with either one of these trades assuming Calderon included
RE: Porzingis  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12294264 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is the least physically developed projected high pick I can remember in quite a few years.


I'd still consider taking him. I know that he's probably two years away but some are saying he's the best overall prospect in the entire draft.
To  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
be clear I wasn't knocking him. I merely meant he doesn't appear to be a starter for a good NBA team to me.
My  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:54 pm : link
above comment was about Galloway. As for Porzingis, if they love him that much so be it, I just think he's 2+ years from really helping. He's literally a "boy" physically.
RE: My  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 12:56 pm : link
In comment 12294353 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
above comment was about Galloway. As for Porzingis, if they love him that much so be it, I just think he's 2+ years from really helping. He's literally a "boy" physically.


Yeah... and this is from Chad Ford's analysis of him on ESPN.com:

Quote:
Porzingis is the wild card in this draft. International scouts swear by him. GMs still are trying to figure out exactly what he is at the next level. Is he the next Dirk Nowitzki or the next Jan Vesely? Based on the conversations I've had with numerous scouts with great track records in Europe, he's closer to Nowitzki than Vesely or -- my favorite analogy -- a more athletic Nikola Mirotic. He could go as high as No. 3 or as low as No. 8.


The Vesely part isn't good.
I don't make any deals with Boston  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2015 1:16 pm : link
Which gives up #4 and Calderon for a bag of shit! Pass!
please don't pick  
charlito : 5/20/2015 1:18 pm : link
Mudiay. He doesn't impress me. The Ohio state guard is much better.
RE: please don't pick  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 1:24 pm : link
In comment 12294389 charlito said:
Quote:
Mudiay. He doesn't impress me. The Ohio state guard is much better.


Based on what?

Russell is the better passer and shooter

Mudiay is more athletic, can break down a defense better, better defender, quicker, will not have trouble getting by his defender and will not let people just drive right by him...

Russell is going to have trouble creating his own shot in the NBA and getting into the lane, he may be the better passer but he is going to have trouble creating for others without picks...

Mudiay can find the open man, he is good once he breaks down the defense...
RE: I don't make any deals with Boston  
Deej : 5/20/2015 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12294385 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Which gives up #4 and Calderon for a bag of shit! Pass!


Stop trading assets to move bad contracts, as if there is a fucking herd of UFAs looking to get in on this shit show.

Those Boston proposals are a solid, solid pass from me (that's the nice way of putting it).
Russell is slow footed  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 1:25 pm : link
he is going to have a big adjustment to the NBA game, Mudiay's game translates better
Boston  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2015 1:27 pm : link
Doesn't have 1 player I would trade the number 4 pick for!
Unless LBJ  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2015 1:28 pm : link
Said he would come and u had to clear cap space but that's about it!
Woj covers the NBA not the college level  
PhilSimms15 : 5/20/2015 1:46 pm : link
His view of the draft class is extremely limited to what he hears from NBA GM's -- and not one has said publicly that it is a 3 player draft. And the draft experts and scouts say its very deep at 1-10 with 5-7 guys who have all star potential: Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, Russell, Prizingas, winslow, and Hezonja.

Larry Bird loves WIllie Stein.
this is one of the better  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/20/2015 1:51 pm : link
drafts I can remember. I think the Knicks will still get a good player at #4. I haven't watched much of KP but he seems like an intriguing international prospect.

IMO, Winslow might just be the best player on the table but the Knicks desperately need a PG or C. Russell or Mudiay, I'd take whoever is left on the board.

I trust Russell's offensive floor and Triangle fit a lot more than I do Mudiay's, but Mudiay definitely has the higher ceiling as a 2-way player. I rank Russell a hair higher just because I've seen him more and trust his competition more.
Devin booker  
GMEN46 : 5/20/2015 2:04 pm : link
You guys who are knocking my Boston trade proposals to get Devon booker have you even seem him play or know anything about him? I think he has one of the biggest upsides in this draft as a 2 guard. Really smooth jumper. 6 foot 6 and shoots at the absolute peak of his jump shot 6 foot 8 wingspan and he doesn't turn 19 until October. Can already hit the NBA 3, can shoot off the dribble, can hit 3's.

Knocks need a slot of pieces and if they are not convinced on mudiay or Winslow they they should trade down. Booker would be your future shooting guard for the next decade you pick up a few other pieces, save cap money from 4th pick to 16th and dump Calderon freeing up potentially enough money for 2 near max contracts. I can understand if you really like mudiay or someone and prefer that route, that's fine but to act like this is a crazy trade idea means you don't know much. They need so many positions filled, Christmas and upshaw could be valuable pieces
Going as far as in saying  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 2:08 pm : link
Russel can't create his own shot is honestly disrespectful to him. Sure he is not as athletic as some of the top guards in the league but its being painted as if he is as "slow footed" as Greivis Vasquez. The Big 10 was probably the deepest NCAA conference top to bottom this past year and he took a team that had no business being in the tournament to a top 25 ranking. Averaging 20 PPG in a power conference requires being able to create your own shot to some degree and he was the only player at OSU that could score and he wasn't even inefficient.

Shaun Livingston is as slow as they come for PGs and he dropped what, 20 points last night in the WCF?

Its sounding as if Russel is going to be one of the most unathletic players in the NBA and thats an over exaggeration. He's not spectacular, but he's average. Hes not quick, but he is shifty and can create space.

That being said, the argument can be made for Russel or Mudiay, and most likely the decision will be made for us when we are on the board. I have no qualms about which one we get because I am confident both will be great players in their own right.
GMEN  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 2:12 pm : link
We aren't trading a top 5 pick for 2 lottery picks. I like Booker and Christmas but there no chance I give up one of the elite prospects up for 1 guy who might be a starter and 1 guy who may not be in the league in a few years.

I think Booker goes before 16, but the dude cannot create his own shot right now, he is a spot up shooter. He's being compared to klay in terms of play style and not actual ceiling. He is nowhere near the defender Klay is and he also cannot create with the ball in his hands. He is a spot up shooter.

I liked Christmas in college but there is a good reason why he isn't even projected as a 1st rounder. He is undersized and cannot shoot. He is not athletic either and cannot protect the rim. He is truly a college big and many are saying he is going to end up overseas sooner rather than later.
That should be  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 2:13 pm : link
2 NON lottery picks
No matter what  
#10* : 5/20/2015 2:20 pm : link
The Knicks need 3 starters. A C, PF, PG/SG.

That is a must this off-season. Whether it's a combination of:

WCS/Monroe/FA PG

Mudiay/DeAndre Jordan/Monroe

Russell/Draymond Green/Marc Gasol

the last two are unlikely. If we don't have big men, playing these games are a waste of time. I probably wont watch the Knicks this season based on last night but still hope they do well. But too much heartache. I'm jumping ship.
Not me  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2015 2:47 pm : link
I watch summer league and suffer!
Bye #10  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 2:47 pm : link
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
fuck the media knicks coverage  
djm : 5/20/2015 2:50 pm : link
if you can't see the anti knicks bias from the media after this latest display of shameless negativity than you never will. The Knicks did NOTHING wrong last night. Nothing. They did NOTHING wrong over that last week of the regular season when they played hard and won two lousy fucking games. But leave it to the media and fan base to turn last night's events into the Knicks suck . As usual, the Knicks just suck. Even though they did nothing wrong.

IT's beyond toxic at this point. Bravo NY media, you've made your mark. Keep on fighting the good fight by shitting all over everything Knicks all because Dolan won't roll out fresh fruit on media day. Really, that's what this has always been about...if you believe it's about wins and losses I have a bridge to sell you.

Lol at people saying the Knicks are screwed  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 2:51 pm : link
after the Lottery...you have absolutely no idea how the draft is going to turn out and how free agency is going to turn out....

Stop listening to Frank Isola and SAS and just sit back wait to see what happens..
#10  
djm : 5/20/2015 2:53 pm : link
sounds like the same idiot that called into WFAN and said he was done watching the KNicks. Done being a fan strictly because of last night's lottery. Get that? The last 15 years weren't enough to send this fuck wad over the edge but ping pong balls finally cemented the deal. Shame on the Knicks for presiding over something they had no control over and more shame for them playing hard in March. They should have TANKED the games! That would be ethical and do so much good for the franchise and everyone knows that pro athletes don't really care about playing their best. They should just embarrass themselves and jeopardize their lively hood by tanking games. Completely fair.

Fuck off.
RE: fuck the media knicks coverage  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12294540 djm said:
Quote:
if you can't see the anti knicks bias from the media after this latest display of shameless negativity than you never will. The Knicks did NOTHING wrong last night. Nothing. They did NOTHING wrong over that last week of the regular season when they played hard and won two lousy fucking games. But leave it to the media and fan base to turn last night's events into the Knicks suck . As usual, the Knicks just suck. Even though they did nothing wrong.

IT's beyond toxic at this point. Bravo NY media, you've made your mark. Keep on fighting the good fight by shitting all over everything Knicks all because Dolan won't roll out fresh fruit on media day. Really, that's what this has always been about...if you believe it's about wins and losses I have a bridge to sell you.


Of course that is what it is about...

The NY media loved Walsh and he was horrible with the Knicks, they loved him because he basically told them everything...

Now Phil is here and there are no leaks none of them have an inside source and they are all bitter, especially Frank Isola...he is no access that is why he continuously writes the same crap...he is spewing how Phil did not do anything at the combine....really? he met with almost all of the prospects...

It is the same thing with Woj, he writes complimentary pieces on the teams that give him information and rips the teams that gives him no access...notice he never breaks Knicks news never...
RE: #10  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12294546 djm said:
Quote:
sounds like the same idiot that called into WFAN and said he was done watching the KNicks. Done being a fan strictly because of last night's lottery. Get that? The last 15 years weren't enough to send this fuck wad over the edge but ping pong balls finally cemented the deal. Shame on the Knicks for presiding over something they had no control over and more shame for them playing hard in March. They should have TANKED the games! That would be ethical and do so much good for the franchise and everyone knows that pro athletes don't really care about playing their best. They should just embarrass themselves and jeopardize their lively hood by tanking games. Completely fair.

Fuck off.


Lol it is the same thing after Lin was not matched, fans freaked out and said they were done with this team...then they went on to win 54 games...
Isola  
djm : 5/20/2015 3:01 pm : link
was on the FAn today. The guy actually broke new ground today. Every time the talkies brought up any kind of Knicks topic Isola just launched into an anti Jackson tirade.

Apparently the Knicks should have kept the "core" together because the Knicks could be as good as the Hawks if they did. Isola's words...not mine. The hawks did it why not the Knicks? Jackson just wrecked this team and got nothing to show for it...his words..

Did this jackass  
BIG FRED 1973 : 5/20/2015 3:03 pm : link
Isola write the article about Phil not being happy about Isiah coming back and now he has 1 foot out the door ? I cant remember what paper it was .
gmen  
hitdog42 : 5/20/2015 3:03 pm : link
I think booker is going to end up one of the better offensive players in this draft- I like him in late lottery for sure
RE: Did this jackass  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 3:05 pm : link
In comment 12294582 BIG FRED 1973 said:
Quote:
Isola write the article about Phil not being happy about Isiah coming back and now he has 1 foot out the door ? I cant remember what paper it was .


Of course he did
I am not  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 3:20 pm : link
stupid enough to just forget the fact that our owner is a complete and utter sports moron. Every day I pray someone makes an offer he can't refuse and sells the Knicks. It probably won't happen but I still hope it does.

That being said... I can't control that. He's the owner. The Knicks are my team. I am going to hope for the best and get whatever enjoyment out of it that I can. That's what I can control.
Dolan as a decision maker  
djm : 5/20/2015 3:23 pm : link
can't be debated. HE's done a bad job. Dolan as the face of the franchise can't be debated. He's been awful, notably the whole Isiah sexual harassment thing...but the guy does spend the money and has stayed out of the way the las5 5 years or more.

I wish we could just get some objective coverage of the team. I don't need to be reminded that Dolan likes Isiah anymore.
Who is saying they had no control last night  
#10* : 5/20/2015 4:13 pm : link
Derek fisher decided to put THJR and Cole in the last couple games when they were clearly hot and looking to pad their stat sheets.

THERE WAS NO REASON TO WIN THOSE GAMES. 0, nada, not one reason. For those saying they're playing for their careers...No one is going to judge them on two games. Not to mention they contracts.

They stunk it up all season long and have the audacity to play like all stars and go balls out on two games that the team actually needed them to lose. The lottery was indicative of the stupidity that played out in the last two games. The Knicks brought it on themselves.

And most knicks fans wanted Russel or Mudiay anyway so you should be happy but for those who clearly disagree don't say the Knicks couldn't have put themselves in a better position last night.
You don't tank games  
Csonka : 5/20/2015 4:25 pm : link
You play to win. We had the 2nd most combinations and it didn't work out last night. Losing a couple more games doesn't guarantee anything. The team with the most combinations has only gotten the #1 pick 3 times in the last 21 years.
We're getting agreat player.
I will continue to watch Knick games  
#10* : 5/20/2015 4:25 pm : link
but its a lesson for me to no longer be emotionally invested.
Bright  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 4:29 pm : link
side is no Lebron/Duncan in this draft. I'm not being revisionist when I say I wanted Towns but I don't see a franchise player here and it's far from a lock Towns is a better NBA player than whomever we land at 4. I'm somewhat bummed because I'm really iffy on Russell whom I think will be the pick but this isn't the end of the world.
RE: Isola  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12294574 djm said:
Quote:
was on the FAn today. The guy actually broke new ground today. Every time the talkies brought up any kind of Knicks topic Isola just launched into an anti Jackson tirade.

Apparently the Knicks should have kept the "core" together because the Knicks could be as good as the Hawks if they did. Isola's words...not mine. The hawks did it why not the Knicks? Jackson just wrecked this team and got nothing to show for it...his words..


What core???????

Chandler, who quit on the team the year before?
Shump, who showed tiny increments of improvement in 3 years?
JR Smith? No, seriously was part of the core?

Isola seriously needs a gigantic bag of STFU.
If you watch the Mcdonalds game two years ago  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2015 4:44 pm : link
Mudiay was a beast.
The tanking thing is so asinine that it's giving me a headache.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 4:45 pm : link
When they beat the Spurs late in the season, the guys who made the big plays late were Alexey Shved and Lou Amundson... how exactly does a coach try to lose games when he's already playing people like those guys?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 4:46 pm : link
all about Mudiay. Fall to 4 please Baron Davis 2.0!
Seems like every team some of you guys root for,  
GiantFilthy : 5/20/2015 4:53 pm : link
whether it's the Knicks, Giants, Mets, Yankees, Rangers, Islanders, the media seems to have a major anti bias against them.

Every team.

It's weird.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 4:56 pm : link
honestly believe there is an anti-Knick bias which is mostly brought on by the franchise/owner. The Mets get mocked when they are bad but praised when they are good. The Yankees might have "haters" but are mostly praised etc. The Knicks become like a nightclub routine for some writers/on air people.
a lot of media types hate the Yankees  
Greg from LI : 5/20/2015 5:02 pm : link
Simply because a large chunk of the population hates the Yankees. That's the price for being the dominant franchise and doing it in NY.

The Knicks, on the other hand, are hated for the reason Dan says - their media policies for the most part. That's why sad little Frank Isola has done nothing but churn out hit pieces for a decade. And that's not to say that there aren't a million things to criticize the Knicks for, but he has such an obvious personal bias because of his hatred for the way MSG handles the media.
I was listening  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 5:05 pm : link
to Francesa before and he was saying he thinks the Lakers will take Mudiay and not Okafor. If that happens then most likely Jahlil Okafor is a Knick.
Isola made it clear in an interview  
AnotherGiantsFan : 5/20/2015 5:12 pm : link
That he has a bias against the Knicks because of Dolan. So it's not exactly a conspiracy.

Then there was this article on Woj not all that long ago :

Quote:
You can at least say this for Wojnarowski’s Pistons coverage: His news scoops were accurate, however he procured them. On other subjects, though, his reporting has been consistently wrong, and he has lashed out with vicious opinion columns. His favorite targets include the New York Knicks management, the “Carolina way,” John Calipari, Larry Brown, college basketball coaches, former player’s union executive director Billy Hunter, agent David Falk, and Boston Celtics executive Danny Ainge.


The article is basically how he plays nice with agents/teams that give him information, and doesn't play as nice to those who keep information away from him.
woj article - ( New Window )
Not on topic  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 5:58 pm : link
but while we are talking about biased media members, and sorry if there have been topics on this before, but does anyone get an anti-Giants vibe from Dan Graziano? I mean he was berating the Giants on like their 4th round pick. Why go out of your way to give a poor draft grade on a round where you draft mainly special teamers?

Anyways, as for the Knicks, you give me either PG and I'm happy. I pray the Lakers take Okafor or the sixers draft KP.

I wouldn't mind us throwing $40M+ at Ajincas, I think he can be a Hassan Whiteside type signing.
On Isola and much of the media bashing Jackson  
PhilSimms15 : 5/20/2015 6:09 pm : link
This is the draft and off season to watch Jackson's moves. Criticizing him for the following makes little sense:

--Chandler deal: Chandler was unhappy here, and disappeared for all playoff games. Plus he is now an UFA. So they gave up one year of Chandler and got in return Calderon, Greek Kid 2, and Early. Much too early to judge the kids and Calderon, when healthy is a quality combo guard. Could he have gotten more, I doubt it -- if he could have he would have. Contrary to Frank Isola, he's not stupid.

--Smith/Shumpert for well, nothing really. But Smith is off the payroll and is no longer a distraction. Smith had not played well for the Knicks since his knee injury (even he said he went out too much) and Shumpert was usually hurt when with the Knicks. So yes, playing with Lebron, for half a year, they have done well. I'd still do that deal.

Now with the fourth pick in the draft, and massive cap space, let's see what Jackson does.
RE: Seems like every team some of you guys root for,  
djm : 5/20/2015 6:38 pm : link
In comment 12294983 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
whether it's the Knicks, Giants, Mets, Yankees, Rangers, Islanders, the media seems to have a major anti bias against them.

Every team.

It's weird.


I never said there's an anti NYG or Yankee or Rangers bias from the local media. And there isn't. There was an anti coughlin agenda back in 2004-2007 but that's passed.

There is clearly an anti Dolan msg agenda and since Dolan is an easy target it's hard to argue but at times it's over the top ridiculous.
It's not some foreign concept here  
AnotherGiantsFan : 5/20/2015 7:03 pm : link
Beat writers don't like people who shut them out. That's why people initially didn't like Coughlin, and that's why everyone hates the Knicks. It's simple, really.

It doesn't even bother me. Rarely do I ever sit down and read an article about my team. The only material I'll read is Zach Lowes, and that's because he's just so far ahead of everyone else it's silly. I used to read some of Mike Garafolo's stuff too when he covered the Giants.
Dolan is a clown who has no clue how to run an organization  
Shirk130 : 5/20/2015 7:11 pm : link
but it's the media's fault. ok. The Knicks have sucked for almost 15 years. That's on Dolan, not Isola.
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