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NFT: Knicks Thread: Draft Lottery impact on FA

giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 10:56 am
As of now, there are really only 4 prospects I think the Knicks are choosing between: Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, and Kristaps Porwhateveritis. And in reality we will only get to choose between 3 because the sixers will take one of those off the board. If there is someone I am neglecting, please let me know, but it seems that there is a huge drop off after those. I know that Mario guy in Spain looks like a freak of nature but I am not sure if he is someone you gamble on with the 3rd pick.

But one thing seems to be certain: we won't be getting a center through the draft. I am hoping we land Monroe but I hope he plays the 4 because we will desperately need a rim protector if we are rolling out Monroe and Melo together.

I think the chances on Aldridge, Gasol, and Jordan are slim because even in the slim chance they do leave their current teams, those guys are at the point in their respective careers where they are going for a contending team rather than the Knicks.

So here is a list of guys I think we are going to go after in the offseason (some will get ruled out based on who we draft). I think all of the big name restricted FAs will get matched, so I am not including any of those:

1. Monroe (offense/rebounding, probably receives a max)
2. Wes Matthews (could be a high risk/reward option. Might not end up spending that much in FA, if he can be 75% of what he was on defense he'd be an improvement)
3. Kyle O'Quinn (not many will agree with me I'm sure but he is a rim protector and can hit 3's; he is restricted so it might cost a lot to pull him away but I think it may be worth it)
4. Asik/Rob Lopez/Koufos (Sort of the Mozgov-type bigs, defense and rebounding)
5. Brandan Wright (was a 20 and 10 guy on a per 36 basis in Dallas, doesn't bring much rim protection but his efficiency is ridiculous)
6. Thad Young/Brandon Bass (if we can't get Monroe)
7. Afflalo/Gerald Green (guard market is barren, might be the most appealing if they don't take the player option)
8. Aaron Brooks/Mo williams (if we don't get Mudiay, if we get Russel we can move him to the 2 in this case)
9. Big Al/Brook Lopez (if we don't get Monroe and they both opt out)

Who do you think we go for?
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nobody on that list  
theold5j : 5/20/2015 11:01 am : link
really gets the juices flowing. i dont know. maybe Monroe would be good or Matthews. None of them are game breakers. Someone is going to give a max deal to Monroe. That would make Allan Houston's deal look good.
Add Aldridge, Gasol, or Jordan  
giants#1 : 5/20/2015 11:04 am : link
to a team with Melo/Monro/#4 pick and they are an instant contender in the East. You could probably argue those 3 would have an easier time getting to the Finals via the East compared to re-signing with their current teams.

RE: nobody on that list  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:05 am : link
In comment 12294162 theold5j said:
Quote:
really gets the juices flowing. i dont know. maybe Monroe would be good or Matthews. None of them are game breakers. Someone is going to give a max deal to Monroe. That would make Allan Houston's deal look good.


You do know that his max is only 15 million first year so by next year his deal is going to look like a mid level deal..

Also after signing him Knicks would have another 13 million to add more pieces..
Completely Agree  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:06 am : link
I don't think we go balls to the wall for anyone this year. But one thing to remember is the cap is going to skyrocket in successive years so a max contract now will look 20-30% better in the coming years. So Monroe may not truly be a "max" guy but after next season, Monroe would be getting paid what he is truly worth with the cap increases accounted for.
problem  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/20/2015 11:07 am : link
with Monroe is he's not much of a rim protector as a 5. Him and melo as your 4 and 5 is a terribly weak front line defensively. I actually think Lopez is the better fit albeit the bigger risk with his foot.
RE: Add Aldridge, Gasol, or Jordan  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:07 am : link
In comment 12294166 giants#1 said:
Quote:
to a team with Melo/Monro/#4 pick and they are an instant contender in the East. You could probably argue those 3 would have an easier time getting to the Finals via the East compared to re-signing with their current teams.


We can't give Monroe a max and then give a max to any of those 3 guys this year, especially with Calderon still under contract.
RE: problem  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:09 am : link
In comment 12294172 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
with Monroe is he's not much of a rim protector as a 5. Him and melo as your 4 and 5 is a terribly weak front line defensively. I actually think Lopez is the better fit albeit the bigger risk with his foot.


Yeah I mentioned that. He also doesn't provide spacing so I think bringing in O'quinn can add rim protection and shooting.
I continue to believe...  
manh george : 5/20/2015 11:11 am : link
that Jackson tries to monetize a part of next year's cap jump by signing at least one quality player to a one year deal with a player option for next year to protect the player, with the expectation of a bigger deal next year.
finding a defensive big..  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:14 am : link
to put next to Monroe should not be difficult. Monroe's skill set is much harder to find. Sign him and then go with the an asik or Lopez. I think Lopez would be a great fit next to Monroe.

The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 11:18 am : link
like O'Quinn and wouldn't mind looking at Biyombo.
We really need Russell to fall to us  
PA Giant Fan : 5/20/2015 11:19 am : link
Need that shooter who can distribute.
The one thing i like about getting Monroe  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:20 am : link
is his age...how often does a 24 year old player become an UFA? not often...

You sign him you still have 13 million to play with maybe more if you can trade Calderon and THJR or cut Calderon and stretch provision his contract...

Mudiay
Melo
Monroe

then add a defensive center and some depth with money you have left you definitely have a playoff team in the east...

then another 20 million or so the following year...

you NEED a defensive center though if you sign Monroe...
I wonder how much...  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:24 am : link
the injury will cost Mathews. If we could somehow get him with Monroe and still have some leftover for one of the cheaper defensive bigs that would be a very strong offseason. I honestly have no idea how much guys like Asik, Lopez, Biyombo, etc.. will command. id love Monroe, Mathews, and asik, but not sure if that is realistic.

Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik

Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?
RE: finding a defensive big..  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:25 am : link
In comment 12294187 Italianju said:
Quote:
to put next to Monroe should not be difficult. Monroe's skill set is much harder to find. Sign him and then go with the an asik or Lopez. I think Lopez would be a great fit next to Monroe.

The only real stars out there are Aldridge/Gasol and we arent getting them. Thing is Monroe is still young enough that he could easily still improve. Not saying he will be a superstar but he is already a pretty damn good player. We also already have a superstar and you have to really hope that whoever we draft shows star potential.


Good points. While Monroe isn't a rim protector he isn't too shabby of a post defender. My worry with R Lopez is that he is going to have many options so I don't know how reliable it is to bank on him coming.
why is that a playoff team in the east?  
hitdog42 : 5/20/2015 11:26 am : link
the east stinks but neither Indiana or charlotte made the playoffs last year, both will be improved-- it makes them a playoff contender with about 5 other teams sniffing the bottom 7-8 seeds.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.

the roster was VERY bare.
We've seen this movie more often than Star Wars  
Giants2012 : 5/20/2015 11:27 am : link
Knicks stink and have cap issues

Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues

Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out

Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap

Just keep repeating history.
RE: We've seen this movie more often than Star Wars  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:29 am : link
In comment 12294213 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Knicks stink and have cap issues

Knicks stink, lose draft choices and clear up cap issues

Knicks bank on a player or draft position and miss out

Knicks buy old players, lose more draft picks and wreck their cap

Just keep repeating history.


new regime new leadership...have faith...stop freaking out over things that have not even happened yet...
RE: I wonder how much...  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:30 am : link
In comment 12294205 Italianju said:
Quote:
the injury will cost Mathews. If we could somehow get him with Monroe and still have some leftover for one of the cheaper defensive bigs that would be a very strong offseason. I honestly have no idea how much guys like Asik, Lopez, Biyombo, etc.. will command. id love Monroe, Mathews, and asik, but not sure if that is realistic.

Mudiay
Mathews
Melo
Monroe
Asik

Although maybe we can find a center whose name could start with an M?!?


NO gave up a 1st round pick to get Asik for 1 year and their defensive ratings were really good when they put Davis and Asik together. I can see them easily giving him $12 M a year at the least to retain him.

But that does bring up Alexis Ajinca, Asik's backup. He is a better offensive player. His per 36 #s were 16.7 PPG, 12 RPG and 2 blocks per game as well as a 20 PER. He is 7'1 and 26. I wouldn't mind giving him a $10M a year offer.
RE: why is that a playoff team in the east?  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:31 am : link
In comment 12294209 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the east stinks but neither Indiana or charlotte made the playoffs last year, both will be improved-- it makes them a playoff contender with about 5 other teams sniffing the bottom 7-8 seeds.
depth just doesn't show up--- it costs money and willingness to go there.

the roster was VERY bare.


Your right i should of said IF they get the right pieces for depth they should be a playoff team...

Mudiay Melo and Monroe is a good start though...

Just have to wait and see...
nyg16  
Giants2012 : 5/20/2015 11:31 am : link
thanks for reminding me. Add in new leadership and regime.

Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.
WOJ on WFAN  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:34 am : link
just said it is a 3 player draft and he thinks Mudiay is out of shape...
nygiants16  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:34 am : link
Thank you. With all the s**t the Knicks and jackson have been getting, this is the first time they can build around Melo without having to force STAT to fit in and his contract eating space. Plus having a top 5 pick and a nearly empty roster to do it is a good bonus.

@Italianju

The problem I have with Mudiay, Monroe, and Asik is the lack of shooting. We are relying on Melo and Matthews in that case for all the shooting period, not just 3 pointers. That type of spacing would be worse than Pistons with JSmoove. I'm kinda hoping we get Russel or Winslow so Monroe would be a better fit.
RE: nyg16  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:35 am : link
In comment 12294222 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
thanks for reminding me. Add in new leadership and regime.

Is Isiah Thomas in the future plans? You bet when Mr. Important realizes he can't win without Super Stars and can't find any.


Maybe? maybe Dolan hired him to test out things for the Knicks on the liberty to see if it works...

you know like how the NFL had the NHL delay a game to see if fans will stay in the cold weather becuase of the super bowl?

i guess you just never know
I think there is a decent chance that Russell falls to the Knicks  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/20/2015 11:37 am : link
the Sixers GM Hinkie seems to love upside and Mudiay has higher upside.
RE: I think there is a decent chance that Russell falls to the Knicks  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:44 am : link
In comment 12294234 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
the Sixers GM Hinkie seems to love upside and Mudiay has higher upside.


I sure hope so. A quick look around the league and I don't see any team that has success with a PG that can't shoot. John Wall couldn't shoot 3s but he had a workable mid-range shot coming into the league that Mudiay does not have in the least. And its been what, 4 or 5 years and Wall still doesn't have an average 3 point shot? We can't wait that long on Mudiay, who doesn't even have Wall's vision or high level defense. He looks like a poor man's Wall to me. He will be good but that can still be 5-6 years from now.

It just doesn't seem the league is built for PG's like Rubio, MCW or Rondo anymore.
Albeit smal sample size  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:47 am : link
he shot 49% from 2 and 35% from 3...not horrible at all...
If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
Italianju : 5/20/2015 11:50 am : link
Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.

If NO wants to pay asik anywhere near 12 mill then there is no chance we get him. I was thinking something like 8 max.
exactly Woj hates the knicks  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:52 am : link
because they have never leaked anything to him....

Go read one of Woj's articles all of them are biased, whether it is towards players, agents or teams....he only writes good things about the the peole that leak him information, so if your a team that doesnt leak info to him he hates you...

look at what he wrote about Donnie Walsh
and SAS making shit up as usual  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 11:57 am : link
saying Phil didnt go to the pre draft camp in Chicago so the Knicks do not know who to draft....

Ummm there are players who said they talked to Phil in Chicago...
nygiants16  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 11:58 am : link
Really? Maybe I am overreacting then. How is China's 3 line in comparison to college and NBA? Isn't it somewhere in between the two? Either way that's not awful. I just like the intangibles Russel brings. He can win games on his own. I think hes a 6'5 version of Kyle Lowry.

I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.

This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.
Porzingis  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 11:59 am : link
is the least physically developed projected high pick I can remember in quite a few years.
RE: nygiants16  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:00 pm : link
In comment 12294263 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Really? Maybe I am overreacting then. How is China's 3 line in comparison to college and NBA? Isn't it somewhere in between the two? Either way that's not awful. I just like the intangibles Russel brings. He can win games on his own. I think hes a 6'5 version of Kyle Lowry.

I really like Winslow. He has some stuff to clean up but I can see him becoming a Jimmy Butler type player and his defense already translates to the league. He gets trashed by analysts for his 3 point shot but he shot 41% in college so idk how terrible he can be beyond the arc.

This Kristaps guy is also extremely intriguing but he is a project to the extreme. His ceiling is Dirk but can block shots. Yikes.


The problem with Russell is he is going to have a lot of trouble creating his own shot and getting into the lane, he is not quick enough to get by people...

Also he is not quick enough to stay in front of the quicker guards in the NBA...
DanMetro  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2015 12:11 pm : link
Anthony Davis? Dude was a STICK. KD is also up there. Dwight Howard was skinny compared to where he is now. But you are right. But if you are tall, can shoot, and that athletic, teams will do whatever they can strength training wise. It will be a few years for him to get acclimated.

Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.

Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?
Ehh i would rather have the PG  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:13 pm : link
that can break down the defense and either finish for himself or find the open man...Melo is better playing off a player that can create easy shots for him rather than him creating shots for others....

I dont want to draft a PG that you need to create shots for that should be his job...
RE: DanMetro  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:20 pm : link
In comment 12294290 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Anthony Davis? Dude was a STICK. KD is also up there. Dwight Howard was skinny compared to where he is now. But you are right. But if you are tall, can shoot, and that athletic, teams will do whatever they can strength training wise. It will be a few years for him to get acclimated.

Yeah I'm not saying Russel is an athlete. That's why I compared him to Lowry. He doesn't burn by people but he just knows how to ball. His height gives him an advantage when his speed doesn't. I'm not worried about him creating his own shot while we have Melo and especially if we get Monroe. His shooting and instincts will be more important.

Maybe Lowry isn't the best comparison, more like a James Harden-ish player but more of a PG?


Porzingis is less physically developed than Anthony Davis







He might be the least physically developed draft eligible player I've ever seen.

and obviously not the same caliber of athlete
Davis  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:21 pm : link


Some full games of Mudiay  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:28 pm : link
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUKdhoTMK6g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acfj-vhpOXc
Link - ( New Window )
RE: If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12294255 Italianju said:
Quote:
Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.


Bingo.
RE: RE: If the knicks were picking 3rd...  
bceagle05 : 5/20/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12294311 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 12294255 Italianju said:


Quote:


Woj would say its a 2 player draft and that Russell and Mudiay are out of shape. If the knicks were picking second Woj would say its really just Towns and all the other guys are out of shape.



Bingo.


Yeah pretty much. The narrative of this draft was going to change this morning depending on where the Knicks ended up. If they got the top choice, all of a sudden it would be a shitty class from top to bottom.
Mudiay  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:39 pm : link
does remind me a bit of Baron Davis
B-Diddy  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:41 pm : link
was never a great 3 point shooter but I think 100% of us would take Davis 2.0 at #4 overall
The nexus of Phil Jackson hate, Knicks hate, Dolan hate, and NY  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/20/2015 12:43 pm : link
hate by the media has been something to behold. It seems like they're trying to one-up each other in complete stupidity passed as unbiased reporting.
RE: Mudiay  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2015 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12294319 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
does remind me a bit of Baron Davis


And Davis lost a lot of that athleticism when he hurt his knee....

I loved prime Davis, i wanted him so bad on the Knicks when he was a free agent and there were rumors that he wanted to come to the Knicks...

Davis was just fun to watch and had that competitive edge...
I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
Meats and Cheeses : 5/20/2015 12:48 pm : link
good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?
RE: I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12294336 Meats and Cheeses said:
Quote:
good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?


Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.
RE: RE: I didn't watch many Knicks games this year, but for those who did, how  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 12:50 pm : link
In comment 12294338 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12294336 Meats and Cheeses said:


Quote:


good is Langston Galloway? I saw he made All-Rookie second team. He put up some decent numbers for a rookie. What is his ceiling?



Solid 6th-7th man type. Not a starter on a good team but a legit NBA contributer. Tweener but has skills.


He's a good two way player too.
2 Trade ideas with Boston  
GMEN46 : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
Option 1 Trade Boston the 4th pick for their 16th pick this year - draft Devon booker, there 28th pick this year and take a chance on Robert upshaw, there second rd pick this year from Phili and take rakeem Christmas and make them take Calderon.

Option 2 Trade for the 16th this year and the number one that they own from brooklyn for next year. And they take Calderon

I love Devon booker's upside reminds me of klay Thompson a little bit. I think upshaw could be worth the risk as a late first and I think rakeem Christmas could come in right away and give solid minutes at PF.

I would be happy with either one of these trades assuming Calderon included
RE: Porzingis  
EricNY33 : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12294264 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is the least physically developed projected high pick I can remember in quite a few years.


I'd still consider taking him. I know that he's probably two years away but some are saying he's the best overall prospect in the entire draft.
To  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:52 pm : link
be clear I wasn't knocking him. I merely meant he doesn't appear to be a starter for a good NBA team to me.
My  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2015 12:54 pm : link
above comment was about Galloway. As for Porzingis, if they love him that much so be it, I just think he's 2+ years from really helping. He's literally a "boy" physically.
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