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Thoughts on the OL games 1 - 6 or so while Beatty's out.

BlueLou : 5/21/2015 1:51 am
Pretty much thought only 2 things were "sure" prior to the season, Beaty at OLT and Richburg at OC. So now we are down to 1...

IMO the first option is to put the "aircraft carrier" top 10 draft pick, Ereck Flowers, at OLT and see if he sinks or swims. Mostly because the 1st problem with OL rookies is they are not yet up to "manly man" strength for the NFL - and simply stated this is NOT Flowers' problem, not hardly. Strength wise this kid was ready to start in the NFL yesterday. Not sure if his aerobic condition is yet there, but with more than 3 months till opening, it will be, most likely. His techniques are raw for a 3 year college starter, but hey, he will learn on the job. No way to learn faster!

If Flowers floats at OLT as long as Beatty is out, Pugh stays put at ORT, Schwartz at ORG, WR at OC and in all likelihood Jerry at OLG, since Flowers really almost surely must have a vet next to him. Frankly I think throwing Jerry next to the rookie Flowers may be beneficial for both: Jerry might absorb a little of Flowers' attitude and intensity, while the role of mentoring Flowers re play responsibilities might help keep Jerry's head in the game - which seems as if it one of Jerry's biggest problems. More than most here, I think Jerry has ability. At the least, he's a very big man who can move quite well for his size.

2nd option I gather it's Newhouse starting at one or another of the OT positions. I mean, that's what he was brought in for, OT depth, right? Is he a better or worse option as a "5th OL" than Newhouse? I haven't the foggiest.

I could go on but honestly I'd be flailing in the dark. I think the Giants would be well served to make as few "moves" as possible re shuffling guys to new positions (like moving Pugh to OLT or inside to OG) now that Beatty is gone for 1/3 of the season or more.

Apparently the depth chart for 2015 at Giants.com won't be listed until training camp...

I like Beatty more than most here, partly because he's an interesting guy. But if Flowers floats at OLT, Beatty could very well end up "Wally Pipped."
2nd paragraph should read  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 1:57 am : link
is he [Newhouse] a better or worse option as the "5th OL" than Jerry?
4th paragraph, I meant.  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 1:58 am : link
Time to go I guess...
one could also hope that  
fame56 : 5/21/2015 2:19 am : link
jones from Canada shows enough to move ahead of jerry on the depth chart and perhaps start at lg next to flowers or pugh at lt with richburg at c, Schwartz at rg, and either flowers or pugh at rt
Doubt they would start Jones and Flowers next to one another.  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 2:22 am : link
Too much chance for mental mistakes, no?
Even when he was signed  
ColHowPepper : 5/21/2015 4:10 am : link
the commentary about Newhouse's journeyman status overshadowed any possible upside; he couldn't hold down starter status for three diferent teams, as I recall. I think the best we can hope for from him is some depth who is not disastrous for Eli's health.

I share your thoughts on Jerry. I also have hopes for Jones; he may surprise--he's a worker, lunch pail, motivated guy with some AA. On a different thread, a poster doubted it was because of Beatty's not-yet-disclosed injury/surgery (completed or not) that EFlow was being worked at LT. Seems like a logical move.
I had Beatty at LOT also  
mrvax : 5/21/2015 5:41 am : link
but hoped that Jones would give Richburg a hella tough time for the center position. I figured Richburg would win but it was no sure thing.

As I posted in another thread, I think Pugh is ready at his natural position of LOT as he played there all 4 years in college. He will surprise a few people if healthy this year.

I think Flowers vs. Schwartz wins ROT, the loser moves to guard along with Jerry.

In the end we see Pugh-Flowers-Richburg-Jerry-Schwartz to start the year. Not sure if Jerry or Flowers will be on the left or right though.
If Flowers plays well at LT  
est1986 : 5/21/2015 6:01 am : link
He stays there for ten years.
Why are most people so quick to discount Jones?  
Dave in Buffalo : 5/21/2015 7:09 am : link
He's only 23 and he dominated competition that's at least as good, on average, as college ball. the game is a little different, but watch him play, he's impressive on film.

I think he's better than Jerry and he's going to figure in that line somewhere.
I think flowers is at lot for the next 10 years starting now  
eli4life : 5/21/2015 7:39 am : link
I don't see Beatty playing for us again. Even if flowers struggles a bit in his rookie year after 6 games is Beatty really going to be in a position to play? What kind of strength will he have at that time? I think flowers might have a few mental errors but will take the proverbial ball and run with it and not look back. I don't think our starting right tackle or one of the starting Guards is on the team yet. I see the line as

Flowers Pugh Richburg Schwartz ?? Or

Flowers ?? Richburg Schwartz Pugh

I think we bring in a vet maybe a Jake long or a June 1 cut
Newhorse  
Lithium : 5/21/2015 7:51 am : link
is no option, he's terrible. Think Charlie Brown bad.
.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2015 8:18 am : link
On paper, I'd put Pugh at OLT, Jerry OLG, C Richburg, Schwartz ORG and Flowers ORT..
If Brett Jones is thought to have the NFL goods  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2015 8:21 am : link
and impresses, the line could also be(albeit a slim chance imv): Pugh-Richburg-Jones-Schwartz-Flowers
Now It's Become An Imperative  
looie : 5/21/2015 8:33 am : link
Flowers has GOT to be NFL-ready on Opening Day. If not, it's going to be a long year for Eli.
I actually think the injury to Beatty  
NYG07 : 5/21/2015 8:35 am : link
Will kick Pugh to LT where I think he is actually better suited. He has the feet and athleticism to play there and Flowers is the mauler the Giants need to get the run game going on the right side. The starting line could look like Pugh-Jerry-Richburg-schwartz-Flowers.
Another option is that Jones takes over at C and Richburg  
yatqb : 5/21/2015 8:40 am : link
stays at LG, despite the Gmen stating unequivocally that he's a C.
Personally,  
Doomster : 5/21/2015 8:40 am : link
I think we should eliminate, offseason training, OTA's, and the preseason.....that way our players will be healthy for the first game..
PS  
Doomster : 5/21/2015 8:45 am : link
Think this scares the front office into acquiescing to JPP's demands, to create cap space for this year? Giants need money for some linemen....
If a player going down in May  
Gman11 : 5/21/2015 8:47 am : link
messes up their whole season then the team didn't really plan well. I would think that they discuss "What do we do if this guy goes down" when they are making their plans. I would hope so, at least.
Games 1-6?  
jeff57 : 5/21/2015 9:00 am : link
Try 1-10. At least.
Doomster  
MotownGIANTS : 5/21/2015 9:06 am : link
if anything they move on numbers for Eli...
This is my projection with current players on the roster  
USAF NYG Fan : 5/21/2015 9:47 am : link
Pugh (OLT)
Jerry, Jones, or Hart (OLG)
Richburg (C)
Schwartz (ORG)
Flowers (ORT)

I'm hoping Jones or Hart beat out Jerry for a guard spot. We are supposedly more of a quick release offense now so Eli should be getting rid of the ball faster. His 2nd year in will hopefully improve that as well.

With 2 big guys in Schwartz and Flowers on the right side, that should be the best direction to try and run the ball. This should also help Pugh and ??? on the left side.

None of this accounts for anybody that Reese may pick up.
Just to expand on the criticism of the posts blasting the Collins pick  
Matt M. : 5/21/2015 9:53 am : link
Where would we be without him? He is projected to start at SS from day one with no other clear candidate as his partner, let alone depth. So another OL may have bought us some depth to cover this. But, it would have left us more exposed at S. Plus, it isn't likely we would have had a starting caliber LT and even a starting caliber OG at that point is iffy.
RE: Games 1-6?  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 10:03 am : link
In comment 12296027 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Try 1-10. At least.


Are you math challenged? The injury yesterday was cited to require a 5 month recovery/ rehab. June, July, august, sept, Oct 20 should be the target for Beatty's return. Look up the game schedule; he should be back for the Cowboys week seven.


It's not difficult to count.
RE: This is my projection with current players on the roster  
OC2.0 : 5/21/2015 10:04 am : link
In comment 12296109 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
Pugh (OLT)
Jerry, Jones, or Hart (OLG)
Richburg (C)
Schwartz (ORG)
Flowers (ORT)

I'm hoping Jones or Hart beat out Jerry for a guard spot. We are supposedly more of a quick release offense now so Eli should be getting rid of the ball faster. His 2nd year in will hopefully improve that as well.

With 2 big guys in Schwartz and Flowers on the right side, that should be the best direction to try and run the ball. This should also help Pugh and ??? on the left side.

None of this accounts for anybody that Reese may pick up.


Think that's it, at this point, as well.
RE: RE: Games 1-6?  
OC2.0 : 5/21/2015 10:07 am : link
In comment 12296168 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In comment 12296027 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Try 1-10. At least.



Are you math challenged? The injury yesterday was cited to require a 5 month recovery/ rehab. June, July, august, sept, Oct 20 should be the target for Beatty's return. Look up the game schedule; he should be back for the Cowboys week seven.


It's not difficult to count.


Even at that, if the OL is playing solid I don't see Beatty getting back in the lineup.
RE: RE: Games 1-6?  
jeff57 : 5/21/2015 10:16 am : link
In comment 12296168 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In comment 12296027 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Try 1-10. At least.



Are you math challenged? The injury yesterday was cited to require a 5 month recovery/ rehab. June, July, august, sept, Oct 20 should be the target for Beatty's return. Look up the game schedule; he should be back for the Cowboys week seven.


It's not difficult to count.


When they say 5-6 months, you can bet on 6. That's the typical recovery time.
RE: RE: This is my projection with current players on the roster  
PatersonPlank : 5/21/2015 10:26 am : link
In comment 12296173 OC2.0 said:
Quote:
In comment 12296109 USAF NYG Fan said:


Quote:


Pugh (OLT)
Jerry, Jones, or Hart (OLG)
Richburg (C)
Schwartz (ORG)
Flowers (ORT)

I'm hoping Jones or Hart beat out Jerry for a guard spot. We are supposedly more of a quick release offense now so Eli should be getting rid of the ball faster. His 2nd year in will hopefully improve that as well.

With 2 big guys in Schwartz and Flowers on the right side, that should be the best direction to try and run the ball. This should also help Pugh and ??? on the left side.

None of this accounts for anybody that Reese may pick up.



Think that's it, at this point, as well.


I've modified my thinking over the past day or two. Obviously it will be based on what they see in the preseason, but I know would be tiliting towards:
Flowers - LT (throw him in there)
Pugh - LG
Richburg - C
Schwartz - RG
Newhouse - RT (at least he has starting experience)

I think if Flowers can hold up, and being a highly talented top 10 pick I think he should pick things up quickly, this lineup sets us up the best for the 2nd half of the season.
I just don't see how they can move Pugh to G now  
jeff57 : 5/21/2015 10:30 am : link
They're better off with a question mark at one guard spot than questions marks at both tackles
RE: RE: RE: Games 1-6?  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/21/2015 10:31 am : link
In comment 12296200 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12296168 BlueLou said:

Quote:

In comment 12296027 jeff57 said:

Quote:

Try 1-10. At least.

Are you math challenged? The injury yesterday was cited to require a 5 month recovery/ rehab. June, July, august, sept, Oct 20 should be the target for Beatty's return. Look up the game schedule; he should be back for the Cowboys week seven.

It's not difficult to count.

When they say 5-6 months, you can bet on 6. That's the typical recovery time.


- Holy Cow! Beatty's surgeon is estimating that Beatty can return to the field in the early part of mid November - so by my math that's at least 10 games he's going to miss -- but it appears that Blue Lou has some inside info that refutes his surgeon in this thread - Nice.
RE: RE: Games 1-6?  
BillT : 5/21/2015 12:06 pm : link
In comment 12296168 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In comment 12296027 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Try 1-10. At least.



Are you math challenged? The injury yesterday was cited to require a 5 month recovery/ rehab. June, July, august, sept, Oct 20 should be the target for Beatty's return. Look up the game schedule; he should be back for the Cowboys week seven.


It's not difficult to count.


Except, of course the PUP list rules require the player sit out 8 weeks minimum and give the team 3 weeks after that to activate them.
Sorry, I'm wrong  
BillT : 5/21/2015 12:11 pm : link
It's 6 weeks minimum.
I also agree with this  
idiotsavant : 5/21/2015 1:46 pm : link
''RE: This is my projection with current players on the roster
OC2.0 : 10:04 am : link : reply

In comment 12296109 USAF NYG Fan said:

Quote:
Pugh (OLT)
Jerry, Jones, or Hart (OLG)
Richburg (C)
Schwartz (ORG)
Flowers (ORT)

I'm hoping Jones or Hart beat out Jerry for a guard spot. We are supposedly more of a quick release offense now so Eli should be getting rid of the ball faster. His 2nd year in will hopefully improve that as well.

With 2 big guys in Schwartz and Flowers on the right side, that should be the best direction to try and run the ball. This should also help Pugh and ??? on the left side.

None of this accounts for anybody that Reese may pick up.


Think that's it, at this point, as well.''




Pugh may make a better OLT than ORT or G. He has some feet and balance, that bodes well.

And positions are not on a ladder, its not a graduated situation, each position is simply different from the others.

Look at Deihl, his best play by far was at OLT, no guard or ORT.
I don't know, very worrisome situation  
barens : 5/21/2015 2:17 pm : link
to have Flowers start on opening night against the Cowboys. I was very optimistic about this matchup before Beatty's injury, now I just feel deflated. Flowers may end up being an excellent player, but that is a lot to ask for any rookie OLT, let alone Flowers.
Short term IR is 8 games right???  
Mooch82 : 5/21/2015 3:02 pm : link
Makes the most sense to go that route. BEST case scenario he is available late October, but will probably want to practice a week or 2 before playing. I would be floored if he played before our 9th game.

Pugh to LT easily makes the most sense at this juncture, and then you just have to figure out who the LG is. Should be a 3 man battle between Jerry (to BBI's dismay he's probably the favorite due to experience), Brett Jones, and Bobby Hart. Maybe Mosley finally stays healthy and shows something. This injury sucks, but shouldn't be as much of a back breaker as some folks are indicating.
Jerry as role model?  
George : 5/21/2015 3:10 pm : link
Let's ask Jonathan Martin and Richie Incognito about Jerry's mentoring skills before we ask him to take Ereck Flowers under his wing. Or any other body part, for that matter.
RE: Short term IR is 8 games right???  
YAJ2112 : 5/21/2015 3:21 pm : link
In comment 12296725 Mooch82 said:
Quote:
Makes the most sense to go that route. BEST case scenario he is available late October, but will probably want to practice a week or 2 before playing. I would be floored if he played before our 9th game.

Pugh to LT easily makes the most sense at this juncture, and then you just have to figure out who the LG is. Should be a 3 man battle between Jerry (to BBI's dismay he's probably the favorite due to experience), Brett Jones, and Bobby Hart. Maybe Mosley finally stays healthy and shows something. This injury sucks, but shouldn't be as much of a back breaker as some folks are indicating.


It makes no sense to use short term IR, which is intended for players hurt after the season starts and can be used only once per year, when you have the PUP option available.
people are too bearish  
area junc : 5/21/2015 3:41 pm : link
on Flowers
guy's a top 10 pick. there's a learning curve but this kid brings lots to the table right away. in many ways he blows beatty out of the water as soon as he steps on the field. giants will have to gameplan accordingly but thats pro football
give him help in the protection schemes and run behind him. let it rip
RE: RE: Short term IR is 8 games right???  
Mooch82 : 5/21/2015 4:44 pm : link
In comment 12296794 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 12296725 Mooch82 said:


Quote:


Makes the most sense to go that route. BEST case scenario he is available late October, but will probably want to practice a week or 2 before playing. I would be floored if he played before our 9th game.

Pugh to LT easily makes the most sense at this juncture, and then you just have to figure out who the LG is. Should be a 3 man battle between Jerry (to BBI's dismay he's probably the favorite due to experience), Brett Jones, and Bobby Hart. Maybe Mosley finally stays healthy and shows something. This injury sucks, but shouldn't be as much of a back breaker as some folks are indicating.



It makes no sense to use short term IR, which is intended for players hurt after the season starts and can be used only once per year, when you have the PUP option available.


OK you're right...PUP makes most sense. Regardless, I don't see him being ready to play after week 6. Mid-November is probably more realistic.
RE: people are too bearish  
barens : 5/21/2015 5:28 pm : link
In comment 12296858 area junc said:
Quote:
on Flowers
guy's a top 10 pick. there's a learning curve but this kid brings lots to the table right away. in many ways he blows beatty out of the water as soon as he steps on the field. giants will have to gameplan accordingly but thats pro football
give him help in the protection schemes and run behind him. let it rip


No, he does not blow Beatty out of the water right away, the kid hasn't seen any NFL action yet.
vereen can do pass protection  
idiotsavant : 5/21/2015 5:41 pm : link
you can bet the other runningbacks will as well.

Pugh/Jones/Richburg/Schwartz/Flowers/TE

>(..RB)
>
>
> ........QB
>
>
RB>

You gents coming up with the mid-November  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 5:47 pm : link
Timeframe for Beatty's return, could you supply a link? Especially wise ass gidie, or gfy! Because 5 months was the projected time frame laid out in the initial thread posted about WB's injury.

If there is more recent or updated news, I will be happily or unhappily corrected, but please don't just pull dates or recovery time frames out if your asses as if those are facts and not farts.
And the last serious injury Beatty had,  
BlueLou : 5/21/2015 5:50 pm : link
It was a broken leg IIRC, he returned from slightly faster than initially predicted.
Pugh  
Dragon : 5/22/2015 9:33 am : link
At LT would scare the hell out of me can't recall many failed NFL RT's that became good LT's. for those who still think Pugh is an NFL tackle trying him at LT would be a great mistake.
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