NFT: Knicks Thread 5/21: Draft prospects

Darko and Curtis Borchardt!

In comment 12297587 Italianju said:

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Right now you could argue who has more of a developed post game between the two and Okafor is 3-4 years younger. Okafor has the chance to be an ELITE offensive player, not good, but Elite. Kanter just doesnt have the offensive game that Okafor does. Sure Kanter has a better mid range game, but that is what bigs develop when they get to the NBA, Kanter did not come into the league with a mid range game (if i remember, tough to tell since he barely even played his rookie year).

I didn't include the Michigan St game because he was guarded by a PF (Brandon Dawson) who is 6'8" (thats being generous).

NBA draft net had Kanter's jump shot ranked a 9 and has him higher ranked in terms of athleticism as well.

Again, how many teams rely on a big man to produce in the post? I'd argue that Kanter's versatility makes him a better offensive threat. He averaged 18 and 12. He is a better rebounder, especially on defense. I'd argue his defensive potential is higher than Okafor's given his athletic ability.

Maybe his post potential isn't as high as Okafor's but really how much does the difference between great and elite make in today's NBA of jump shooting? Especially with Melo creating, the less clutter down low the better.

And I meant Okafor won't be a liability on man to man defense, not that he looks to be a rim protector.
Kanter scouting - ( New Window )

In comment 12297635 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12297633 DanMetroMan said: Quote: just like everything I have seen and read about this kid. Hard worker, plus athlete, smart kid. And he can't shoot, which makes him Dan's favorite prospect immediately. :-)

He actually shot pretty well this season (limited games no doubt) but his form looks pretty solid. I'm all-in on Mudiay.

In comment 12297652 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12297635 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 12297633 DanMetroMan said: Quote: just like everything I have seen and read about this kid. Hard worker, plus athlete, smart kid. And he can't shoot, which makes him Dan's favorite prospect immediately. :-) He actually shot pretty well this season (limited games no doubt) but his form looks pretty solid. I'm all-in on Mudiay.

LOL I was just playin around. I am at work and don't feel like doing a damn thing.

I would be happy with Mudiay as well.

so make sure to mention small sample size. I dont not like Kanter or anythnig, i just think its crazy to say that he is okafor's ceiling. The 26 games in OKC aside he has never lit the world on fire on the rebounding side so i dont see why you think Okafor cant be just as good of a rebounder as he is.

my preference is

towns
Mudiay
Okafor (i keep going back and forth on him and mudiay)
russell

Anybody else feel like Towns is getting a little too much hype? I wanted him and think he is the best player in this draft, but i def dont see him as a generational talent type guy and i feel like he is talked about like he is.

In comment 12297660 Italianju said:

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my preference is towns Mudiay Okafor (i keep going back and forth on him and mudiay) russell Anybody else feel like Towns is getting a little too much hype? I wanted him and think he is the best player in this draft, but i def dont see him as a generational talent type guy and i feel like he is talked about like he is.

I feel the exact same way about Towns. I think he's one of the worst "best prospects" to come around in a while.

In comment 12297660 Italianju said:

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my preference is towns Mudiay Okafor (i keep going back and forth on him and mudiay) russell Anybody else feel like Towns is getting a little too much hype? I wanted him and think he is the best player in this draft, but i def dont see him as a generational talent type guy and i feel like he is talked about like he is.

I think Minnesota is the perfect fit for him because Garnett is there, maybe give him a little bit of mean streak and develop into a very very good 2 way player...

Okafor is someone that 1 minute i think is going to bust or be a 1 way player and then another i am thinking he is going to be a great player...it all depends how hard he works on the defensive end...He has definitely thinned out since the season ended so he is definitely working hard but who knows...

Russell i go back and forth on to, on one hand he is not very athletic or has that quick first step but he is so crafty and has a very smooth jumper that i think he could develop into a good offensive player, defense worries me..

Mudiay he has hte ability to have all the tools, he can pass, drive by people, he is athletic, he is quick, he has defensive potential, his shot is not terrible it definitely needs to be more consistent...I just think when all is said and done he is the best pro...he is the most pro ready in my opinion out of the 4...

think Towns could have gone as low as 4th last year, likely goes #1 in 2013, 2nd in 2012, 2nd in 2011, 2nd in 2010, 2nd in 2009, 2nd in 2008, 3rd or 4th in 2007

I don't think Towns is getting overhyped. I think he's being talked about as the best player in this class. Almost everyone is saying it's going to take some time for him to develop into the player he will most likely become. Nobody is saying he's going to come in and dominate immediately.

In comment 12297673 DanMetroMan said:

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think Towns could have gone as low as 4th last year, likely goes #1 in 2013, 2nd in 2012, 2nd in 2011, 2nd in 2010, 2nd in 2009, 2nd in 2008, 3rd or 4th in 2007

I disagree. I think Towns goes 1st last year too. People forget that Wiggins was hyped as the next LeBron and had a mostly disappointing freshman season at Kansas. Also... Embiid is the clear #1 pick if he doesn't break his foot.

doesn't seem very likely to ever be a franchise player to me. In fact I'd be pretty shocked. In some years the #1 overall is a clear "woah". The Knicks picking 4th sort of sucks but far less than in a year when such a player existed.

all the tools are there for him to be a franchise player. Time will tell.

In comment 12297697 DanMetroMan said:

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doesn't seem very likely to ever be a franchise player to me. In fact I'd be pretty shocked. In some years the #1 overall is a clear "woah". The Knicks picking 4th sort of sucks but far less than in a year when such a player existed.

Towns draws alot of comparisons to Bogut and I don't think thats a terrible one. Bogut was a 16 and 10 guy and held down the fort in Milwaukee. If you consider that "franchise" player, then I think he is. Depends on your definition. I think "cornerstone" is the most appropriate word for him. I think Towns is stronger and might have a more reliable jumper than Bogut.

It all depends on context. If you are Philly or LA and are expecting him to be the face of your franchise, then you may not like your return on investment.

Minnesota is the perfect spot for him. Wiggins is the clear face of the franchise, and Lavine has all kind of potential. Then you've got some good guys like Rubio, Shabazz, and Dieng and it looks like you have something.

I agree, if he went last year I think he goes #3 or 4. Philly would give some hesitation but I think their philosophy of getting higher potential guys may still lead them to Embiid. But Towns is in that talent group just under parker and wiggins, I think hes a far and away better prospect than Gordon, Smart and Exum if he went last year.

or Parker and it would be close with Embiid but only due to the injury. I thought Embiid was way more impressive last year then Towns was this year.

he would be the number 1 pick and it would not be close

In comment 12297732 Italianju said:

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or Parker and it would be close with Embiid but only due to the injury. I thought Embiid was way more impressive last year then Towns was this year.

There is always a premium on big men.

In comment 12297361 Jon in NYC said:

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that this is a 4 player draft, we have a top 4 pick, and we're going to somehow not end up with one of the top 4?

Yes. Welcome to the dark side. From the lottery thread...

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My prediction Deej : 5/19/2015 8:50 pm : link : reply Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein.

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RE: My prediction Jon in NYC : 5/19/2015 8:51 pm : link : reply In comment 12293511 Deej said... No chance. We'll get Mudiay.

Link - ( New Window )

but Phil himself said this is a 4 player draft, that is why if the Knicks were 5th they would probably trade out....

I have no doubt whoever of the top 4 are sitting there at 4 Phil is drafting them...

I atleast make a call to Philly about Embiid for the #4 pick.

I know about 95% of you would not be a fan of that because the combination of "Knicks luck" + "Big Man Foot Injury" scares the shit out of you. I get that.

But IMO a healthy Embiid has a special ceiling, one that neither Towns or Okafor has. I think a healthy Embiid could be a dominant #1 guy on a contender.

But the foot thing. There's a lot of risk with that and if you want to go the safer route, I get it. But damn, this is the perfect time for any team to come in and scoop Embiid up before he demolishes the league. The reward is worth the risk imo. I doubt Philly does that trade anyway.

In comment 12297799 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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I atleast make a call to Philly about Embiid for the #4 pick. I know about 95% of you would not be a fan of that because the combination of "Knicks luck" + "Big Man Foot Injury" scares the shit out of you. I get that. But IMO a healthy Embiid has a special ceiling, one that neither Towns or Okafor has. I think a healthy Embiid could be a dominant #1 guy on a contender. But the foot thing. There's a lot of risk with that and if you want to go the safer route, I get it. But damn, this is the perfect time for any team to come in and scoop Embiid up before he demolishes the league. The reward is worth the risk imo. I doubt Philly does that trade anyway.

No way because of the foot thing and that alone. Big men with foot injuries really never get healed. They just learn to cope with it.

I loved what I saw from Embiid at Kansas but I want no part of him with that injury.

In comment 12297799 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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I atleast make a call to Philly about Embiid for the #4 pick. I know about 95% of you would not be a fan of that because the combination of "Knicks luck" + "Big Man Foot Injury" scares the shit out of you. I get that. But IMO a healthy Embiid has a special ceiling, one that neither Towns or Okafor has. I think a healthy Embiid could be a dominant #1 guy on a contender. But the foot thing. There's a lot of risk with that and if you want to go the safer route, I get it. But damn, this is the perfect time for any team to come in and scoop Embiid up before he demolishes the league. The reward is worth the risk imo. I doubt Philly does that trade anyway.

If Knicks had 2 i think they would think about it becuase then they could get Okafor and russell or Mudiay and they would have nice young trio with Noel...

At 4 ...they get Russell or mudiay at 3 who do they take at 4?

What's your order for who you want the Knicks to get?


Me:

1) KAT
2) Mudiay
3) Okafor
4) Russell


Though Russell could elapse Okafor

In comment 12297808 Anakim said:

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What's your order for who you want the Knicks to get? Me: 1) KAT 2) Mudiay 3) Okafor 4) Russell Though Russell could elapse Okafor

In terms of pure player talents or factoring in the dearth of big men in the NBA?

If I were going to rank the 100 players in the NBA 5-6 years from now, these are where I think you would see them on a list, from best to worst:

Mudiay
KAT
Kristaps
Hezonja
Russell
Okafor

Obviously I am going with potential there, if I were ranking Day 1 readiness, Okafor and Russell would be ahead of the international kids

for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes.

In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said:

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for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes.

I'd do it for the #2 pick overall period. But I suppose I'd be in a minority.

In comment 12297808 Anakim said:

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What's your order for who you want the Knicks to get? Me: 1) KAT 2) Mudiay 3) Okafor 4) Russell Though Russell could elapse Okafor

Whoops missed the whole "who do you want the knicks to get" part.

Me:
1.) KAT
2.) Mudiay
3.) Russell
4.) Okafor or Hezonja (trade out)

I've made my stance clear on how I view Okafor. In an era of "Big 3s" I just don't think he fits the bill as a two way player. I think he could crack the #3 guy but I see him as being a luxury #4 player on a contending team. The 4 guys I listed I believe can be the #3 or even #2 guy.

I just don't see a big like Okafor on any recent title contending team. This is a jump shooting era. If you can't shoot you sure as hell better defend. You can bring up Zach Randolph but Randolph is one of the toughest guys in the league and can give you defensive boards. Okafor is a finesse big with good touch but thats about as good as it gets.

In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said:

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for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes.

Give me Jordan Clarkson instead of Randle.

In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said:

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for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes.

This is a no brainer... Where do I sign up?

“He is a great kid,” Bynum, who finished the season playing with the Wizards, said in a text message. “Very eager and willing to learn and a very fast learner. Really good in pick and roll and open court and he has the ability to be a lockdown defender.”

In comment 12297865 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said: Quote: for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes. Give me Jordan Clarkson instead of Randle.

Man you'd get fired as a GM faster than I would!

In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said:

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for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes.

I'd do it but why would L.A. ever do that?

if they'd bite for the #2 pick for Melo.

The pick and Randle is preposterous.

Okafor and a starting PG is a good start.

In comment 12297780 Deej said:

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In comment 12297361 Jon in NYC said: Quote: that this is a 4 player draft, we have a top 4 pick, and we're going to somehow not end up with one of the top 4? Yes. Welcome to the dark side. From the lottery thread... Quote: My prediction Deej : 5/19/2015 8:50 pm : link : reply Towns, Russell, Okafor go 1-2-3 (any order). Dolan and Phil decide they're not interested in "the Chinese kid" sight unseen. We take Cauley-Stein. Quote: RE: My prediction Jon in NYC : 5/19/2015 8:51 pm : link : reply In comment 12293511 Deej said... No chance. We'll get Mudiay. Link - ( New Window )

I think my relentless optimism has been broken.

Fuck Dolan.

Not getting Randle and the #2 in that deal, of course, but #2 and maybe a future lottery-protected #1?

Not #1, obviously

You would have almost 50 million in cap space have okafor and mudiay to build around would be a young and fun team...

Rebuild!

Melo for the 2nd pick and pray that Minn passes on KAT (never gonna happen). I doubt LA would do that trade though

When the workouts start?

In comment 12297883 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12297865 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 12297847 DanMetroMan said: Quote: for #2 overall and Randle... Yes or no? I say yes. Give me Jordan Clarkson instead of Randle. Man you'd get fired as a GM faster than I would!

Give me an all rookie first team guy instead of an inury-risk guy with no defensive ability and no proven offensive game. Randle doesn't project as a starter on any good team. He is Thomas Robinson 2.0

17 PER

16.7 PPG and 5.4 APG in 32 mpg

6'5" with a 6'8" Wingspan

Whats the case for Randle?

This draft is getting of lot of hype or praise not because of one player like towns but because of 4-5 players.

Towns is a big that can defend while showing promise offensively. That's gonna generate a lot of hype in any year. Bigs are tricky though... Not much to dislike with towns but he could be a jag in the NBA. Same with oke...

comes off as very intelligent and very mature
Link - ( New Window )

Yes please. I'm convinced that NY will not win w Melo on this team. This would make for a full rebuild that I believe NY fans would love. 2 young rookies that can develop right infront of us would be amazing.

need Randle in the deal, I'd take Melo for #2 straight up right now. I dont know if the Lakers would do it, but I do know the Knicks wouldn't. They're not smart enough to do something like that, particularly Dolan

Ian Begley, ESPN Staff Writer

"The New York Knicks are enamored with D'Angelo Russell and have scouted Emmanuel Mudiay extensively.

But they’re considering more than just point guards in the 2015 NBA Draft.

ESPN.com’s Chad Ford tweeted on the night of the NBA Draft Lottery that the Knicks are "big Justise Winslow fans."

They interviewed Winslow during the NBA Draft Combine in Chicago earlier this month and will likely hold a private workout with him prior to the draft.

ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton sees Winslow as the best wing in the draft. However, Pelton believes Winslow’s strong NCAA Tournament performance may have led some to overvalue him.

ESPN’s Chad Ford says Winslow lacks a great off-the-dribble jump shot and has a poor midrange game. But Winslow also does many things well, including the ability to defended multiple positions and rebounding."

Is a mistake at #4. You do not pass on talented big lead guards for an undersized 3-man.

In comment 12298648 Reeses Pieces said:

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Is a mistake at #4. You do not pass on talented big lead guards for an undersized 3-man.

Undersized 3 man? He will play the 2 in the league. I obviously would rather have the PGs in this draft but if Winslow turned out to be like Jimmy Butler it wouldn't surprise me. I think he's safer than any of the top 4 picks because worst case scenario you get an elite perimeter defender who is a good cutter and can hit knock down spot up jump shots.

His floor is a jacked Shumpert and his ceiling is Jimmy Butler.

My biggest fear at the 4 spot is that Okafor, Towns, Mudiay, and Russell all gave the potential to be the #1 player for their respective teams. Winslow may be a good productive player in the league. But imo I do not see him ever carrying team. Something these 4 other players may one day do.