After looking at scouting videos, I may have changed my personal take slightly in favor of Mudiay over Russell, but for those who I have been down on Russell, I encourage you to take a look at the the video I posted. There is also a weaknesses video for Russell and for Mudiay as well.
Russell may not be the athlete Mudiay is, but to say he cannot create his own shot is borderline disrespectful. This kid's feel for the game is unreal.
So give me whoever is left on the board, Russell or Mudiay. I think both of them are going to be better players than Okafor and maybe even KAT. The importance of the big man down low is why those two guys are going first, not because of pure talent. They are turning into the QBs of the NBA draft.
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I dont see them passing on Okafor if both guards are gone..no way
Look at the east: Cavs are playing their best playing small with Thompson at Center...
the league is getting smaller and smaller...
Draymond finished 2nd in DPOY this year. So that 6'8 guy is fucking good at defense.
The Cavs also went out of their way to trade two firsts to bring in Mozgov who has been a big help.
Okafor played 300+ more minutes then KAT this season yet commited 34 less fouls. Now im not saying that okafor is anywhere near Towns as a defender, im just saying its obvious that he was asked to be less aggressive.
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look at the best team in the league, they are jump shooting team that plays their best when they are small and they have 6 foot 8 Forward playing Center...
Look at the east: Cavs are playing their best playing small with Thompson at Center...
the league is getting smaller and smaller...
Draymond finished 2nd in DPOY this year. So that 6'8 guy is fucking good at defense.
The Cavs also went out of their way to trade two firsts to bring in Mozgov who has been a big help.
Of course he is good at defense but he is not your traditional shot blocker....
and Mozgov has played well but he struggles against guys who can step out and hit the jump shot...
I will bet anything if Warriors go small, Mosgov has toruble and Cavs go small as well...
I am not saying he won't amount to Al Jefferson defensively, but by the time he does Melo may be long gone. It took Al Jefferson 12+ years to finally fit on a good team defense, and it lasted 1 year. That team also had MKG, Gerald Henderson, Cody Zeller, and Bismack biyombo.
Okafor had Winslow and Amile jefferson to do most of the defensive work so his rim protection was not as important for Duke's success. Please watch this video and fully absorb how atrocious he is at not only team defense, but defensive rebounding as well. If you can't defend you need someone to at least secure defensive boards.
It's one thing to not have a rim protector and have good wing defenders all around you. Its another thing to not have a rim protector, but its a COMPLETELY another thing if your wing defenders are THJR, Jose Calderon and Carmelo Anthony...
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That said since having dropped to #4 I wonder if they wouldn't be better off and trading down a few spots and then taking a player who can help on defense. Not sure who, I have read Justise Winslow is a solid defender that would be available a little lower so maybe someone like him or whomever else might be a good defender available a little lower.
It would be great if the Knicks could swing getting back a first round pick for next year that they currently don't have plus some desperately needed defensive help. Then go after more proven offensive help in the free agent market.
Please watch this video and fully absorb how atrocious he is at not only team defense, but defensive rebounding as well. If you can't defend you need someone to at least secure defensive boards.
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Just watched the video, and yes watching him his defense is atrocious, but the very first highligted "Post Defense - Has the base and upper body strength to hold his own but doesn't show much toughness. Rarely bodies up. Plays 1-2 feet off his man" You tell me if that sounds like someone who is actively trying not to get into foul trouble. Then you watch the clips with that mindset and it becomes that much clearer. If not, then I'll be damned Coach K lost his mind leaving such a liability on the court all game long.
Seems like one thing is for certain: we won't end up with Towns. I can't see him getting past the Lakers. So we're looking at either Okafor, Russell or Mudiay...or Phil can go off the board a bit and go for Winslow or...gulp. Willie Cauley-Stein.
That said since having dropped to #4 I wonder if they wouldn't be better off and trading down a few spots and then taking a player who can help on defense. Not sure who, I have read Justise Winslow is a solid defender that would be available a little lower so maybe someone like him or whomever else might be a good defender available a little lower.
It would be great if the Knicks could swing getting back a first round pick for next year that they currently don't have plus some desperately needed defensive help. Then go after more proven offensive help in the free agent market.
Can trade out of the pick with Orlando for Kyle O'quinn and Moe Harkless
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In comment 12296314 nygiants16 said:
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look at the best team in the league, they are jump shooting team that plays their best when they are small and they have 6 foot 8 Forward playing Center...
Look at the east: Cavs are playing their best playing small with Thompson at Center...
the league is getting smaller and smaller...
Draymond finished 2nd in DPOY this year. So that 6'8 guy is fucking good at defense.
The Cavs also went out of their way to trade two firsts to bring in Mozgov who has been a big help.
Of course he is good at defense but he is not your traditional shot blocker....
and Mozgov has played well but he struggles against guys who can step out and hit the jump shot...
I will bet anything if Warriors go small, Mosgov has toruble and Cavs go small as well...
I never said shot blocker. Shot blocking is easily the most overrated stat in the NBA. STAT was a great shot blocker. Tyson wasn't. Who would you rather have controlling the paint?
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way too extreme. Does he have to play both PF and C? Cant you put a defensive guy next to him (gasol next to Randolph). Al Jefferson is not a bad NBA player, not sure why the idea that he is Al Jefferson means he is a bum. Jefferson hasnt exactly been on the best of teams which hurts the perception of him. A guy who steps on the court and goes 16 and 9 like you say is a pretty good player. Im fine not getting him, but id be pretty happy to get him.
If you're a center in the NBA and you want to win at any sort of level, you have to play good D. Who is the last championship team that had a poor defensive center?
This is my issue and has been since Day 1. Brook Lopez is a good scorer and probably a better defender than Okafor is, but he only plays D when he wants to.
I didn't read this thread yet, so I have no idea if I'm just regurgitating here.
I don't see many comparisons between the two. Conley is a much better athlete who is quick and gets to the basket much better. He also has that pesky defense nature about him. D'Angelo is a lot smoother, may actually be a better passer though.
I'm really not a big D'Lo fan and I've maintained that position for months. I think he'll be a good player, but I'd rather risk the pick on a guy with more potential.
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In comment 12296297 Italianju said:
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way too extreme. Does he have to play both PF and C? Cant you put a defensive guy next to him (gasol next to Randolph). Al Jefferson is not a bad NBA player, not sure why the idea that he is Al Jefferson means he is a bum. Jefferson hasnt exactly been on the best of teams which hurts the perception of him. A guy who steps on the court and goes 16 and 9 like you say is a pretty good player. Im fine not getting him, but id be pretty happy to get him.
If you're a center in the NBA and you want to win at any sort of level, you have to play good D. Who is the last championship team that had a poor defensive center?
This is my issue and has been since Day 1. Brook Lopez is a good scorer and probably a better defender than Okafor is, but he only plays D when he wants to.
We've been agreeing a lot recently and it freaks me out.
While Okafor is the most prolific and skilled offensive big man in college basketball, his play on the defensive end of the floor doesn't inspire anywhere near the same praise.
SportVU keeps stats on rim protection, which is any instance where the defender is within five feet of the basket and within five feet of the offensive player attempting the shot.
The numbers here suggest that Okafor hasn't been quite as ineffective as he appears to be on film at times. Okafor has been in a rim protection situation 8.8 times per game on average, which is a similar amount to that of his NBA center counterparts we studied in our six player sample. Opposing players have converted 45.5% of those field goal attempts.
There are a number of potential explanations for this. Our 14 game sample includes games against the likes of Presbyterian, Fairfield, Furman, Army, Elon, Toledo and Wofford, some of were huge blowout wins for Duke. At the same time, Duke's home ACC slate included games against Boston College and Pittsburgh, neither of which present imposing frontcourt challenges.
Watching the film, it's clear that when Okafor is operating at full intensity, he is able to make his presence felt with his strong frame, terrific length (wingspan measured between 7-5 and 7-6 in various settings) and solid anticipation skills. He's blocked 28 shots in 19 games so far this season, a decent mark, but his lapses in intensity, average awareness and fundamentals, and seeming unwillingness to be a consistent presence on a full-time basis have been quite glaring at times this year.
Okafor's ability to emerge as a legit rim-protector, as well as his prowess as a pick and roll defender, which we studied closely in the following video, will likely play a huge role in the type of NBA player he ends up developing into.
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In comment 12296307 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 12296297 Italianju said:
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way too extreme. Does he have to play both PF and C? Cant you put a defensive guy next to him (gasol next to Randolph). Al Jefferson is not a bad NBA player, not sure why the idea that he is Al Jefferson means he is a bum. Jefferson hasnt exactly been on the best of teams which hurts the perception of him. A guy who steps on the court and goes 16 and 9 like you say is a pretty good player. Im fine not getting him, but id be pretty happy to get him.
If you're a center in the NBA and you want to win at any sort of level, you have to play good D. Who is the last championship team that had a poor defensive center?
This is my issue and has been since Day 1. Brook Lopez is a good scorer and probably a better defender than Okafor is, but he only plays D when he wants to.
We've been agreeing a lot recently and it freaks me out.
You know what they say about great minds... and if you don't you'll get there someday.
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I didn't read this thread yet, so I have no idea if I'm just regurgitating here.
I don't see many comparisons between the two. Conley is a much better athlete who is quick and gets to the basket much better. He also has that pesky defense nature about him. D'Angelo is a lot smoother, may actually be a better passer though.
I'm really not a big D'Lo fan and I've maintained that position for months. I think he'll be a good player, but I'd rather risk the pick on a guy with more potential.
Like Porzingis?
Haha i am sure Jackson will find a couple of crazies he thinks he can change...
Dont be surprised if Bynum is given a chance..
I'd be fine with Hezonja OR Porzingis. I've gone on record saying as much. I just know we're not picking one of them. Unless of course we trade down.
I don't want Winslow. I just don't think there's anything special about him. He's a good player and does everything well, but to me, he doesn't do anything great.
Well... he did coach Dennis Rodman, so I don't think he's too concerned about crazy. He's more concerned about crazy and being a good enough player to deal with the crazy.
Love for competition, thats our biggest need, Knicks coach Derek Fisher said during ESPNs broadcast of the combine. If its the NBA draft, youll find talent no matter what number it is. But its the right talent. Thats really what were looking for, which might be a departure from years in the past. But thats our goal right now.
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Invite him to camp. Why not? There's nothing to lose by doing that.
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he played on the same team with Mudiay and there was talk that he wanted one more chance in the NBA, i know he was a bust may be worth the gamble...
Invite him to camp. Why not? There's nothing to lose by doing that.
Yeha he would probably want more of a commitment to come probably at least a guaranteed deal...ehh who knows just a thought
Based on what? He's 19. He'll grow into his body. I am not concerned about him getting stronger and gaining weight. Get him on the American diet. He'll get there in no time.
I really don't think Hezonja's floor is that low. Guys who can hit the 3 are worth their weight in gold in todays NBA.
I think we should settle ourselves down on Mudiay. Just a week ago we were talking about KAT like we were getting the #1 pick. Numb yourself to the pain and stop focusing on a prospect.
So then no player we pick is going to excite you. It was Towns or bust.
so who are you going to be happy with?
I am not Russell's biggest fan but he does fit the triangle pretty well...I think Mudiay is going to end up the better PG but if it is Russell than thats who it is...
There is a clear top 4 and i will be happy with any of the top 4
I also think Okafor is an exceptional talent..
Bill laimbeer just said there's a "giant wall" between Knicks and liberty so Isiah won't have any input with Knicks.
Ian Begley @IanBegley 3m3 minutes ago
Liberty's Bill Laimbeer on if Isiah will have a future role with the #Knicks: "No way. He's made it clear that that world is non-existent.