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NFT: Mets vs Cardinals, 1pm start.

spike : 5/21/2015 12:06 pm
Please let DeGrom (4-4, 3.21 ERA) be the stopper! He is opposed by Jaime Garcia, who is starting for the first time since undergoing thoracic outlet surgery in July.

If he doesn't work out, maybe the Cardinals would be willing to take one of Niese/Gee/Colon out of our hands as their no 5 starter for their stretch run?

Cards
Wong
Carpenter
Peralta
Adams
Grichuk
Heyward
Reynolds
Cruz
Garcia

Mets
Lagares
Flores
Duda
Cuddyer
Murphy
Mayberry
Campbell
Plawecki
deGrom

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Amazing that we're somehow  
Metnut : 5/21/2015 3:33 pm : link
going to get a split out of this. I'll take it!
RE: Not  
spike : 5/21/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12296828 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
kicking dirt on Plawecki but pretty bummed how bad he's looked. He's not a toolsy type, I thought his short swing, good eye at the plate would translate reasonably well quickly. Hasn't been the case, in fact if TDA were to get hurt again I think they would need to import a catcher vs. go with Plawecki.


sometimes it takes a few callups for a prospect to fulfill his potentials
I'm looking forward to days of no more Niese, Gee and Colon.  
Four Aces : 5/21/2015 3:33 pm : link
I appreciate what they've done for the Mets. But the future has now arrived. It's time for Thor, Matz and Montero to pitch regularly in the big leagues.
RE: Not  
chris r : 5/21/2015 3:34 pm : link
In comment 12296828 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
kicking dirt on Plawecki but pretty bummed how bad he's looked. He's not a toolsy type, I thought his short swing, good eye at the plate would translate reasonably well quickly. Hasn't been the case, in fact if TDA were to get hurt again I think they would need to import a catcher vs. go with Plawecki.


I think that's a little extreme. TDA himself looked pretty horrible early on. I've seen enough of Plaw that I think he can be a solid .280 type hitter with some XB power.
RE: one of these kids  
steve in ky : 5/21/2015 3:34 pm : link
In comment 12296822 spike said:
Quote:
will pitch a no hitter or two for us before they are done


History hasn't borne out. I sure hope so but they have had some of the games bets pitchers wear the uniform and not get ever get one while a Met so I wouldn't assume it will easily happen with this group.
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 3:35 pm : link
In comment 12296831 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 12296828 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


kicking dirt on Plawecki but pretty bummed how bad he's looked. He's not a toolsy type, I thought his short swing, good eye at the plate would translate reasonably well quickly. Hasn't been the case, in fact if TDA were to get hurt again I think they would need to import a catcher vs. go with Plawecki.



sometimes it takes a few callups for a prospect to fulfill his potentials


Like I said, I'm not giving up on him or anything but his skillset, limited overall "upside" but short swing, intelligent "already" 24, I thought he'd be one to be decent right away. I still like him just somewhat surprised.
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 3:35 pm : link
In comment 12296834 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12296828 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


kicking dirt on Plawecki but pretty bummed how bad he's looked. He's not a toolsy type, I thought his short swing, good eye at the plate would translate reasonably well quickly. Hasn't been the case, in fact if TDA were to get hurt again I think they would need to import a catcher vs. go with Plawecki.



I think that's a little extreme. TDA himself looked pretty horrible early on. I've seen enough of Plaw that I think he can be a solid .280 type hitter with some XB power.


How do you figure? If TDA gets hurt July 17th would you rather go with Plawecki/Recker or look for outside help? I'm talking about the 2015 season.
RE: RE: Not  
Four Aces : 5/21/2015 3:39 pm : link
In comment 12296834 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12296828 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


kicking dirt on Plawecki but pretty bummed how bad he's looked. He's not a toolsy type, I thought his short swing, good eye at the plate would translate reasonably well quickly. Hasn't been the case, in fact if TDA were to get hurt again I think they would need to import a catcher vs. go with Plawecki.



I think that's a little extreme. TDA himself looked pretty horrible early on. I've seen enough of Plaw that I think he can be a solid .280 type hitter with some XB power.


Long term, I like Plawecki as well. But right now, he's not ready. He needs more seasoning in AAA.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 3:40 pm : link
talking strictly about the 2015 NYM and their season. Not what Plawecki might be in the future.
Well they get the split with possibly the nest team in the league  
steve in ky : 5/21/2015 3:40 pm : link
Pitching and timely hitting keeps them moving in the right direction.
*best*  
steve in ky : 5/21/2015 3:40 pm : link
.
next up  
spike : 5/21/2015 3:40 pm : link
3 games against the underachieving Pirates (18-22) but with their top 3 starters:

Gerritt Cole (5-2, 2.40) vs Syndergaard (1-1, 3.18)
AJ Burnett (3-1, 1.38) vs Harvey (5-1, 1.98)
Francisco Liriano (1-4, 4.15) vs Niese (3-4, 3.72)

Dont care how we do it  
spike : 5/21/2015 3:41 pm : link
but keep inching towards 88-90 wins
RE: I'm  
chris r : 5/21/2015 3:42 pm : link
In comment 12296852 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
talking strictly about the 2015 NYM and their season. Not what Plawecki might be in the future.


My bad, I misunderstood you then. I'd look to replace Recker anyways going forward. I don't think the Mets can afford to carry two starting catchers and given TDAs injury history, he should have a better backup. So that's where I'd look for an upgrade and then Plaw could split time with that better backup.
Recker  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 3:44 pm : link
is terrible, he must be good in the clubhouse/pitchers like throwing to him because he's really bad even for a backup C.
DMM  
Headhunter : 5/21/2015 3:52 pm : link
How does Duda rate defensively statistically To the eye test he looks to be close to Gold Glove which I never thought I'd be writing Lucas Duda & Gold Glove in the same sentence.
Not sure if  
Metnut : 5/21/2015 3:55 pm : link
I'm reading this wrong, but fangraphs has him as the 5th best defensive 1B among guys with qualified ABs. Buster Posey is #1, so it seems hybrids who are getting value from other positions are included too.



http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=20,d - ( New Window )
He really worked hard  
Headhunter : 5/21/2015 3:57 pm : link
to get where he has come from defensively. I hope he gets every nickel in negotiations
RE: He really worked hard  
Metnut : 5/21/2015 4:00 pm : link
In comment 12296885 Headhunter said:
Quote:
to get where he has come from defensively. I hope he gets every nickel in negotiations


Agreed, came a LONG way from the mess when he was misplaced in the OF.
RE: DMM  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:12 pm : link
In comment 12296877 Headhunter said:
Quote:
How does Duda rate defensively statistically To the eye test he looks to be close to Gold Glove which I never thought I'd be writing Lucas Duda & Gold Glove in the same sentence.


Others beat me to it but yeah Duda is at worst average at 1b and seemingly better than that> Both eyes and numbers agree. Duda has turned into a very good overaLL MLB player> the eye test is always funny with 1b, people insisted Ike was so good at 1b because they remember a few fancy catches in the dugout but he was nothing special.
He's come along way in a lot of areas  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:12 pm : link
I was ridiculed here all offseason for even "suggesting" he might improve against lefties. I was worried about the power this season recently, but with a big day he's right back on track.

Lets hope this is the beginning of a hot streak that lasts a couple weeks. We've needed somebody, anybody, to have one like that all year.
BOOO Collins is a moron!  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:15 pm : link
Adam Rubin ✔ @AdamRubinESPN
Terry Collins said 110 was deGrom's limit because of recent hip issue as well as shoulder stiffness sitting during 10-run frame last start.
After today his  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:15 pm : link
wRC+ is at 152! He's truly been better than last year in just about every area. Just hope he can keep crushing a few because this lineup desperately needs power.
Hmmm  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:18 pm : link
No Class of 2012 anywhere to be found after a win? Shocking.
Duda  
Headhunter : 5/21/2015 4:19 pm : link
has after 42 games the same 5 home runs and 19 RBI that he had last year after 42 games. The difference this year is 14 Doubles to 5 Doubles last year and last year he was hitting .237 to this year .302
RE: I'm looking forward to days of no more Niese, Gee and Colon.  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:22 pm : link
In comment 12296832 Four Aces said:
Quote:
I appreciate what they've done for the Mets. But the future has now arrived. It's time for Thor, Matz and Montero to pitch regularly in the big leagues.


You can't even really count Gee as he's already out of the rotation. Its really just Neise and Colon. Flip a coin. One has to stay around a little longer until Wheeler is back Im afraid or at least Montero proves healthy.

Id still try to leverage Colon on somebody this summer assuming he comes back strong and can lower that ERA/FIP a little after last nights disaster.
And suddenly Cuddyer's  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:26 pm : link
wRC+ is right back to 95. He's a couple homerun day and a hot week or two away from being exactly what we thought he would be. Hoping todays big day gets him going as well.
I'd say Cuddyer  
Metnut : 5/21/2015 4:32 pm : link
needs a wRC of around 110 to make him an average player with his poor defense. He needs to get to 115-120 IMO to justify his salary + draft pick compensation to get him.

If he can get to that 110+ range the rest of the way, it'll be a big boost to the lineup. I'm not optimistic that he can do that, but still too early to throw in the towel either.

RE: I'd say Cuddyer  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:36 pm : link
In comment 12296947 Metnut said:
Quote:
needs a wRC of around 110 to make him an average player with his poor defense. He needs to get to 115-120 IMO to justify his salary + draft pick compensation to get him.

If he can get to that 110+ range the rest of the way, it'll be a big boost to the lineup. I'm not optimistic that he can do that, but still too early to throw in the towel either.


I think thats fair. 110 doesn't seem insurmountable in the least considering he really hasn't even had one hot week yet. He could reach that in a day actually. Look what happened to Duda today?. One thing I do disagree with is his defense. Don't look now but Cuddyer is having the best defensive season he's had since 2005. The move to LF clearly favors him(even though I still think its stupid putting Granderson's arm in RF). The reality is Cuddyer is actually playing an average LF defensively, or just a hair below it.
RE: Hmmm  
pjcas18 : 5/21/2015 4:41 pm : link
In comment 12296920 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
No Class of 2012 anywhere to be found after a win? Shocking.


the highs and lows of a baseball season. invincible after a win, hapless after a loss.

I try and stay even keeled until there is reason not to be.

the Mets split with the cards winning the Harvey and deGro games, losing Niese and Colon, not unexpected. the unexpected part of being outscored 19 - 2 in the two losses and scored just 4 runs in the first 3 games of the series.

still I try and remain even keeled and not get too high after even a win like today.

not sure who you're looking to call out or why.
Matz should replace Niese immediately  
Chris684 : 5/21/2015 4:44 pm : link
If Colon can be decent for the next 2 months, he can be dealt by the deadline.

At that point you slot in Montero for Colon for the rest of the season.

By next season hopefully we can field a rotation of

Harvey, deGrom, Thor, Matz, Wheeler and use Montero as part of a deal to bring another bat in here.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:46 pm : link
wouldn't count on Montero for anything at this point. Who knows if/when his shoulder will stop barking?
what a start today....  
Italianju : 5/21/2015 4:48 pm : link
we needed that W bad.

I know Colon pitched poorly last time out, but im not sure we need to rush to replace him with Montero. EVen if Montero was healthy.
On the heals of Neise's worst  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:49 pm : link
thrashing of his career his FIP is still a whopping 4.20. He's going to be replaced by a better starter eventually but he's still well above average for a number 5 starter. Unfortunately we are going to have to keep Neise or Colon in the rotation towards the end of the season as they are two of our only starters that can pitch 190-200 innings.

How are we going to make it to the end of the year with a rotation of Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Thor, and Montero?? It would be impossible. All these guys are going to have innings counts.
I would prefer they first traded Niese  
steve in ky : 5/21/2015 4:49 pm : link
if they wanted to replace him with Matz. Why kill what ever value might still have?
Niese  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:50 pm : link
will be very, very hard to move at this point. I'm not even sure he'd be claimed off of waivers given his salary. I would suggest he wouldn't be.
Im fine with trading Neise or Colon  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:51 pm : link
Whichever brings back more. The one nice thing about Neise is he is under contract in 2016 so we can at least start him out as our 5 until Wheeler is back. Colon is gone either way.
Niese  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:51 pm : link
is currently owed about 14 million.
Sandy has openly said  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:52 pm : link
he would eat salary in a move of Colon. Why wouldn't he for Neise?? He absolutely would. And Neise is making much less than Colon annually. Not sure why 7 million a year is considered "a lot" all of a sudden.

Its a lot if he's not healthy, but he hasn't had any issues there.
RE: Sandy has openly said  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 4:56 pm : link
In comment 12296989 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
he would eat salary in a move of Colon. Why wouldn't he for Neise?? He absolutely would. And Neise is making much less than Colon annually. Not sure why 7 million a year is considered "a lot" all of a sudden.

Its a lot if he's not healthy, but he hasn't had any issues there.


If they eat significant money then sure. But Jon Niese isn't bringing back anything at 14 million. He's just not. Not with a 4.31 FIP
There likley is a team that has a need for a 28 yr left handed starter  
steve in ky : 5/21/2015 4:56 pm : link
.
Not trying to start a whole debate  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:57 pm : link
We can agree to disagree. If Neise comes back and pitches a few solid games I think he'll look pretty attractive again to other teams. Assuming we eat a couple million off each year he might even bring back a nice prospect.
They missed the boat on trading Niese  
debo_GIANTS : 5/21/2015 4:57 pm : link
I highly doubt the Mets will eat the money that is owed to him at this point.
RE: RE: Sandy has openly said  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 4:59 pm : link
In comment 12296994 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12296989 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


he would eat salary in a move of Colon. Why wouldn't he for Neise?? He absolutely would. And Neise is making much less than Colon annually. Not sure why 7 million a year is considered "a lot" all of a sudden.

Its a lot if he's not healthy, but he hasn't had any issues there.



If they eat significant money then sure. But Jon Niese isn't bringing back anything at 14 million. He's just not. Not with a 4.31 FIP


I believe Neise will get his FIP back in the 3's where it generally almost always is (as it was 72 hours ago) and as we get closer to the deadline that contract will be worth closer to 9 million for the rest of 2015 and 2016. Kick in a couple million and we should get something back.
RE: They missed the boat on trading Niese  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 5:01 pm : link
In comment 12297000 debo_GIANTS said:
Quote:
I highly doubt the Mets will eat the money that is owed to him at this point.


Eat all the money?? Absolutely not. lol. But Sandy has openly said he would kick in a couple million in a deal with Colon. Makes zero sense that he wouldn't do that for Neise as well.

Neise is making 7 million dollar this year(about 5 left) and 9 million next year.

Colon was making 11 million this year. I don't see much difference in them as far as quality. They are roughly the same player assuming Neise is healthy.
Excuse me.  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 5:03 pm : link
I meant to say closer to 11 million by the deadline. Obviously not 9. lol. My bad.
What were the Marlins thinking  
Rflairr : 5/21/2015 5:36 pm : link
Jennings even looks funny in the uniform. He looks so out of place.
RE: They missed the boat on trading Niese  
Rflairr : 5/21/2015 5:37 pm : link
In comment 12297000 debo_GIANTS said:
Quote:
I highly doubt the Mets will eat the money that is owed to him at this point.


When you see the money some of these pitchers are getting. Niese is a friggin bargain with 14 mill left on his contract.
Heyman  
DanMetroMan : 5/21/2015 7:43 pm : link
said there has been practically no interest in Gee since day one which has surprised the Mets.
Just dump him.  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2015 7:48 pm : link
I really don't want to see him in the bullpen over one of the young kids that have all looked good. Give him away for a 2nd tier prospect like Taylor last year who's far away. Sucks but we have to make room.
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