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NFT: Rick Nash

rocco8112 : 5/21/2015 1:49 pm
I have been watching more and more hockey in recent years. It really is an amazing sport and playoff hockey is just incredible.

The Ranger game last night was very exciting, but unfortunately they came out on the losing end. Again, their best scorer failed to produce anything for the cause. In fact there was one play mid-third period where he side stepped some defenders and missed what looked to me to be an ideal opportunity to drive to the net and score. Instead he sent a weak wrist shot that I think I could have saved if I was in net for the Lightning. That did not look like a play by someone who is hungry to compete, hungry to be a champion.

Will it be possible for the Rangers to turn their series around and win if the best scorer on the team continues to shrink away from the big moment?

In addition I think the play of Nash brings up the question of if there is such a thing as a clutch player? I firmly believe that there is a clutch factor that some athletes possess. Either they are mediocre or solid players who raise their game when the stakes are highest, or they are all star caliber players who rise to insane heights when competing under the highest stakes. As Giants fans we are blessed with the King of Clutch as our QB.

Conversely, the worst kind of player if the one who is an all star who can carry his team through the season, but wilts like a dying flower when it is best on best with everything on the line. These players constantly tease fans with everyone thinking "tonight will be the night he breaks out" and then it never happens and the season ends. It also has to be very disheartening for the team itself to see one of the best players who carried them through the season shit the bed in the biggest moment.

Anyway, this forum is full of knowledge sports fans. Do you believe there is a clutch gene that certain athletes possess?


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RE: .  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/21/2015 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12296629 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Derick Brassard is not holding Rick Nash back. It's ridiculous to blame his lack of scoring on not playing alongside an elite 1C.

He's one guy in the regular season and another in the postseason. The sample is far too large to call it a fluke at this point. He's not finishing and it falls on his shoulders.

The well of excuses is running very dry.


I not trying to be critical of Brassard AT ALL, but I feel like we keep saying the same things about X big-name winger that we've acquired who isn't playing great in the postseason. (Yes, Nash's futility far exceeds Gaborik.) While the center on his line has nothing to do with his inability to finish a breakaway, I think it plays a large part in his overall ineffectiveness.

I'm obviously critical of his postseason play too, but I don't think it's as simple as he's a choker, overrated, etc.
Aloha  
Jay in Toronto : 5/21/2015 2:25 pm : link
I agree. There was concern about Hayes and the sudden shift in his workload from college and I think it's starting to show. I also wonder if it's a reason for the D's noticeable decline (also possibly affected by fatigue taking its toll on forwards' back-checking)

I know Hartford is in a playoff, but I'd love to see Lindberg in the line up, at least.
I'm more concerned with St. Louis - a nearly 40 year old  
Mellowmood92 : 5/21/2015 2:26 pm : link
undersized player who is getting physically dominated every night. He also happens to be missing on a lot of goal-scoring opportunities that he should be capitalizing on. How often during the last two series has tried to gain the zone only to get absolutely flattened before making a play? I guess the only solace is Callahan is also a non-factor (for now).

Nash is at least making things happen. He's been a physical presence, been pretty good on the penalty kill, and is making plays on the power play. Sure, he does take some low percentage shots at times, but I don't think goal scoring is everything. Plus the Rangers can make things happen when the puck gets thrown on net.

Anybody else noticed who's been the better player between Girardi and Stralman?....
RE: RE: RE: .  
spike : 5/21/2015 2:28 pm : link
In comment 12296636 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 12296630 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 12296616 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


The difference is that all throughout the regular season, we watched him capitalize on those chances he's created. And it's not just a coincidence thing because his percentages have taken a massive dip since the playoffs started.

The shot he put on Bishop from point blank last night was a fucking joke. If you're just going to flick a 30 mph wrister at the guys chest protector, just give the puck to someone else instead because it's a complete waste of an opportunity.



How many of Nash's shots have been lower percentage than last night's game winner?



Probably not many. I don't think even Kucherov himself thought that shot had much of any chance to go in.


That was all on Lunqvist. Maybe he needs to sit down for game 4. Give Talbot a chance.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/21/2015 2:32 pm : link
In comment 12296656 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 12296629 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Derick Brassard is not holding Rick Nash back. It's ridiculous to blame his lack of scoring on not playing alongside an elite 1C.

He's one guy in the regular season and another in the postseason. The sample is far too large to call it a fluke at this point. He's not finishing and it falls on his shoulders.

The well of excuses is running very dry.



I not trying to be critical of Brassard AT ALL, but I feel like we keep saying the same things about X big-name winger that we've acquired who isn't playing great in the postseason. (Yes, Nash's futility far exceeds Gaborik.) While the center on his line has nothing to do with his inability to finish a breakaway, I think it plays a large part in his overall ineffectiveness.

I'm obviously critical of his postseason play too, but I don't think it's as simple as he's a choker, overrated, etc.


Thing is, the opportunities are still there. So it's not like he just can't find open ice anywhere and is getting stifled by shutdown defensemen. He's had chances and just has not been able to beat these goalies.

I'm sure playing with an elite centerman would help but Brassard is more than adequate and Nash has had plenty of looks.
any ranger fan suggesting giving hank a night off must be off their  
GMenLTS : 5/21/2015 2:35 pm : link
meds.

I certainly hope that's a minority opinion.
I can understand  
rocco8112 : 5/21/2015 2:38 pm : link
that there is more to hockey than scoring goals. He is bringing it in other areas, but this postseason is not an aberration. The guy does not bury his chances, he does not score.

There are players who are the anti-Eli, the bigger the moment the less difference they will make. In some ways these are the worst type of players to have on a squad.

That said, it only takes one or two big performances to change everything. I guess that is why we watch.
RE: any ranger fan suggesting giving hank a night off must be off their  
arcarsenal : 5/21/2015 2:43 pm : link
In comment 12296673 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
meds.

I certainly hope that's a minority opinion.


It is. If he were to let in 2-3 quick ones (and relatively bad ones) early in Game 4, I'd consider making a switch at least for the rest of the game.. but there's no question that Hank gets the start tomorrow. Not even a debate.
RE: RE: any ranger fan suggesting giving hank a night off must be off their  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2015 2:51 pm : link
In comment 12296687 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 12296673 GMenLTS said:


Quote:


meds.

I certainly hope that's a minority opinion.



It is. If he were to let in 2-3 quick ones (and relatively bad ones) early in Game 4, I'd consider making a switch at least for the rest of the game.. but there's no question that Hank gets the start tomorrow. Not even a debate.


Yep. And I don't think there would have been anything wrong with giving him the 3rd period off after 10 goals in 5 periods with the team not playing it's usual tight defensive game. It may have even jolted the rest of the team awake and given them a renewed sense of responsibility. But the King should unquestionably be starting Friday night.
Agree with Jay  
MetsAreBack : 5/21/2015 2:52 pm : link
absent Zuccs being able to play tomorrow (he did skate with extras today....) I would bring Lindberg up tomorrow to replace MSL who is absolutely killing this team. but i doubt he's even in Tampa so it would be Bourque or a 7th Dman in Hunwick. Is what it is.

I've heard the excuses about Nash playing PK and PP -- and they just need to stop. His overall minutes arent bad at all. He's just not finishing, hasnt since March... and its killing the team yet again. Granted we scored 5 goals last night though, so kind of a strange time for this thread.

Our D - i'd be more concerned about "fatigue" if this TBL and NYI style havent given us fits all year. TBL owned Hank in the regular season too... as did the Isles. This is as much coaching as it is anything else. Like AV but he has to adjust. Even his players admitted in the papers today they dont match up talent wise with TB to get into a track meet. We need to get back to tighter checking, traditional playoff hockey.
Did this really need another thread  
jgambrosio : 5/21/2015 2:53 pm : link
It's been discussed ad nauseam on other threads, telecasts, pre/mid/post games.... we get it. Nash is playing like dogshit.
RE: any ranger fan suggesting giving hank a night off must be off their  
mfsd : 5/21/2015 3:09 pm : link
In comment 12296673 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
meds.

I certainly hope that's a minority opinion.


It's really an insane thought. You win or lose with your best players. No way you even consider benching Hank
If There's No Such Thing As A Clutch Player  
wonderback : 5/21/2015 3:09 pm : link
Can someone please explain to me the play of Tyler Johnson versus the play of Rick Nash?
RE: any ranger fan suggesting giving hank a night off must be off their  
Tuckrule : 5/21/2015 3:42 pm : link
In comment 12296673 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
meds.

I certainly hope that's a minority opinion.


100%. You put in talbot and your waving the white flag. That is the most desperate move a hockey coach can make. Live and die with your best player. I fully think henrik will show up bigtime in game 4
I don't think it has anything to do with a gene  
Mike from Ohio : 5/21/2015 4:20 pm : link
Some people perform well under increased pressure because it makes them focus. Others feel the pressure and perhaps start putting even more on themselves, and they try to play too perfect and are less effective.

I don't know specifically why Nash doesn't score in the playoffs, but I would guess at some level it is in his head now and when he has a decent scoring chance, there is probably some part of him that is pressing to make it a perfect shot. In the regular season he may net the same opportunity because he isn't thinking about it, he's just relaxed and playing.
RE: If There's No Such Thing As A Clutch Player  
RB^2 : 5/21/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12296750 wonderback said:
Quote:
Can someone please explain to me the play of Tyler Johnson versus the play of Rick Nash?

Tyler Johnson's been a stud all year. It's not like he came out of nowhere these playoffs.
Nash  
wonderback : 5/21/2015 5:00 pm : link
42 goals. Johnson 29 goals. They were both studs. Johnson still is. Nash - not so much.
Bullshit  
PaulN : 5/21/2015 5:07 pm : link
To anyone that says there is no such thing as a clutch player, any professional player will tell you that. Rick Nash is not a confident player at all right now, and has never been a confident player once the playoffs start, the bullshit about him doing other things is just that, bullshit. He lacks grit, determination, and the will to win. Go watch LeBron, or Jordan, they have great talent, but they also have the intangibles, Nash is not as talented as the top players in the league, but he lacks those intangibles, I would get rid of him, trade him while you can get something, Boyle and Yandle have to go, St. Louis and Nash have to go. Plus paying a goalie what they are paying Lundqvist is not the best way for any franchise to go. If he was the greatest, he would not be letting 6 fucking pucks behind him.
Can we trade him  
wonderback : 5/21/2015 5:10 pm : link
for Tyler Johnson? I'll throw in Boyle and St. Louis.
I dont disagree with that  
MetsAreBack : 5/21/2015 5:16 pm : link
but its funny you say Lebron because as recent as 4 years ago, the knock on him from the mainstream was that he didnt want the spotlight or the pressure.

Then he won a title, relaxed, and look at him now.

It's incredible what just a little success will do for confidence.

As a long suffering Rangers fan we all know what will happen - after falling short again, we will dump Nash to another city - maybe like an Edmonton (not sure about his NMC, but whatever) - playing alongside elite goal scorers, Nash will start to net a few one postseason. And he will end up with 15 postseason goals that year and a Stanley Cup for someone else.

I'm not saying dont move on from the guy - clearly its not working here - but.... we've seen this movie before (Gaborik) and we may be seeing it again this year (Callahan, Boyle, Stralman - granted so far Cally & Boyle havent killed us... the triplets & Stamkos & some fucking guy named Killorn have)
It  
rocco8112 : 5/21/2015 5:37 pm : link
is true that a non-clutch label can be changed with just some big moments. LeBron is the perfect example and it seems silly now to remember that at one time he was thought of as not a big game player.
AV should try taking him off the PK  
Torrag : 5/21/2015 6:35 pm : link
If his legs are fatigued it could give him a boost. We have a lot of good penalty killers he isn't a necessity on that unit. Fast/Stepan/Hags/Moore/Hayes/Sheppard/Glass can all contribute on the PK. Nash does seem to generate breakaway and odd man rushes on the PK but they aren't being converted. Give it a try we need to try something to jumpstart him.
I'm calling bullshit on the special teams rationale.  
BrettNYG10 : 5/21/2015 6:38 pm : link
I don't recall him touching 20 minutes a night. He isn't playing that much, especially relative to other stars. And he's getting plenty of opportunities. He just isn't converting.
Yup, he does not double shift like Ovy  
MetsAreBack : 5/21/2015 6:43 pm : link
and his minutes have been perfectly normal. Sure some of that PK time i guess takes away from 5-on-5 time... but he's had plenty of opportunities 5x5 and even PP to score.
The special teams stuff is just another excuse.  
arcarsenal : 5/21/2015 7:13 pm : link
Drew Doughty logged close to 30 minutes a game this year and you could make a legitimate case for him winning the Norris. He was very good all year long. Suter was the only guy in the league who averaged more ice time that Doughty did and it was by a whopping 4 seconds.

Like I said, you could use arguments like those if the scoring chances were totally disappearing but they're not. The guy is choosing to skate away from the net and he's firing off weak shots when he has a clear lane.
Henrik Lundqvist  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/21/2015 7:21 pm : link
is so unclutch. Just look at how many goals he has given up in the last two games-- the two most important games of the season. I would hate to have to rely on him in net in an elimination game-- oh wait.
series  
blue42 : 5/21/2015 8:40 pm : link
is 2-1....everyone on the Rangers can play better and they know it.Hank looks tired...the Caps series drianed him but he'll rebound.Nash and St. Louis are killing the Rangers.
only thing i give him a pass for is lack of pp scoring  
CGiants07 : 5/21/2015 8:56 pm : link
as his combo is clearly #2 unit
RE: Henrik Lundqvist  
Ash_3 : 5/21/2015 9:44 pm : link
In comment 12297124 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
is so unclutch. Just look at how many goals he has given up in the last two games-- the two most important games of the season. I would hate to have to rely on him in net in an elimination game-- oh wait.


Paul that's a ridiculous argument coming from you, who's easily one of the best posters around.

Compare Hank's regular season performance to his postseason performance; they're basically the same : excellent. Moreover, Hank's been the best game 7 goalie in NHL history.

Now consider Nash's postseason production (which is a reasonably large sample size now) to his regular season production. The guy turns into someone else come playoff time.
Ash, it looked like sarcasm to me  
Kyle in NY : 5/21/2015 9:55 pm : link
.
Indeed it was  
Ash_3 : 5/21/2015 10:10 pm : link
but it was sarcasm deployed in a bad analogy.
Nash hasnt hurt us yet this series  
MetsAreBack : 5/22/2015 11:23 am : link
we scored 5 goals Wednesday and there's nothing he could have gone about monday's shit-show sandwich.

MSL is the guy most responsible for the 1-2 deficit right now. I really hope he's in the press box tonight.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/22/2015 11:29 am : link
I disagree that he hasn't hurt us in this series.

If he converts on a point blank chance early in the 3rd period of Game 2, it's a tie game and who knows where the game goes from there.

Fast also had a yawning cage but I'll give him a pass since he made up for it in Game 3 and has been arguably our most consistently good forward this entire postseason.
Nash does appear to lack confidence during the playoffs  
JonC : 5/22/2015 11:33 am : link
I've seen be very active in some games, hounding skaters on defense and trying to impact the game in other ways. But, to me clutch is confidence and keeping an edge to your game no matter what. In this vein, Nash tends to be inconsistent, imv.

Bigger question in my mind is, what changes do NYR make after this season? Cap situation indicates they'll have to look at trades over UFA, for example.
Ash  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/22/2015 11:38 am : link
my point was that the concept of "clutch" is overblown and a moving target.

As far as Nash goes, I don't think it's a lack of clutch. Rather, I think it's that his playing style is not as suited for playoff scoring combined with some bad luck.

He is still playing strong defense and his assist rates are more than fine, and were even better than his regular season rates, last I saw them calculated.

I think this is a good article on Nash's "woes" in the playoffs and helps contextualize it.


http://blueseatblogs.com/2015/05/19/rick-nash-doesnt-stink/ - ( New Window )
,  
arcarsenal : 5/22/2015 11:44 am : link
Almost every time Nash carries the puck into the zone, he comes from just inside the boards and settles for a crappy bad angle shot that barely challenges the goalie. If it's not that, he tries that backwards spin move thing that makes people go "ooh, that was cool" but it never accomplishes anything.

I'd like to see him actually use his size and momentum and skate the puck towards the crease and try to get a greasy goal. He's a big guy. Force the goddamn issue and create a little havoc right in front of the net.
Rick Nash is definitely a positive player on the ice.  
BrettNYG10 : 5/22/2015 11:45 am : link
But look at guys like Corey Perry generating high quality chances and driving to the net - things Nash did earlier in the year - Nash is doing the equivalent of settling for jumpers instead of driving to the paint. He's much better than last year offensively, but it's not just bad luck.
Nash is a big guy who plays small. Bad combination.  
Victor in CT : 5/22/2015 11:57 am : link
Arc is on the money about his weak moves.

Funny, in the '70s GAG meant Goal A Game for the Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert line. GAG in Nash's case is entirely different.
Goals per Game
Reg Seas Playoffs
Nash .44 .13
Ratelle .38 .26
Gilbert .38 .43
Hadfield .32 .36

See I thought he kind of purposely set up Fast  
MetsAreBack : 5/22/2015 12:01 pm : link
in game 2 with that type of shot.

I'm not saying Nash hasnt sucked or that the single biggest reason the Washington series was closer than it should have been was because of his disappearing act. He was brutal in the Washington series.

I'm just saying he's not the biggest reason or anywhere close to it that we're down 1-2 in this Tampa series right now. Not to name names -- but MSL is.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/22/2015 12:21 pm : link
It's possible, I'd have to watch it again.

My biggest problem is just that I feel his offensive game has been so passive. When a player like him is struggling, what I want to see is that player get angry and play more aggressive. A guy with his size/skill should be trying to force the issue.

I know this is who Nash is and it's not really in his DNA, I just wish the guy would start playing like he refuses to let this team lose.

Ovechkin is a better player so it's not a perfect comp but no one on the planet doubts that guy left everything he had on the ice against us. I just do not feel that way about Nash.
Agree  
MetsAreBack : 5/22/2015 12:27 pm : link
and these 3 games against Tampa aside, we've got 55 games sample size now. The guy sucks in the playoffs. Basically he's Mr October..... that'd be great if this was baseball, but its not a good thing for a hockey player.
and you dont even have to compare him to Ovechkin  
MetsAreBack : 5/22/2015 12:29 pm : link
can compare him to Kreider on our own team. Kreider is working his ass off around the net and getting dirty goals here and there.

CK's defense has been another issue.. but offensively Nash should be doing more of what #20 is doing out there.
Kreider's D issues are not from lack of commitment though. Or  
Victor in CT : 5/22/2015 12:43 pm : link
willingness to get dirty. He is still a bit undisciplined, and runas around a bit to much looking to make a big hit.
Nash on special teams isn't an 'excuse'...  
Torrag : 5/22/2015 1:26 pm : link
it's more to try and change his routine up to get him going. The status quo isn't working and 7 goals in 56 playoff games speaks volumes. His scoring splits between regular and post season play are literally the worst in NHL history by a wide margin. It is worth trying something rather than doing nothing...it's impossible form him to be worse offensively. It could amount to a hill of beans but it puts his focus on one thing...scoring goals.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/22/2015 1:32 pm : link
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that taking one of our best PK'ers off the ice against a PP that is lighting us the fuck up as it is, is probably a terrible idea.

Nash scored all season long while playing ST minutes. There's absolutely no reason why it should all of a sudden become a hindrance in the playoffs when it wasn't before. It is an excuse and it's a bad one.
It would be an excuse IF...  
Torrag : 5/22/2015 3:27 pm : link
someone was saying Rick Nash isn't scoring because he's on the PK. Have people said that? I don't know. But I'm not saying it.

What I am saying is try something different to get him going. Put his focus on his offense. We couldn't finish last year without him scoring and frankly I don't see us winning the Cup with him like this. It's worth trying a different mindset for him imo.

You want to counter with we need him against a great PP from Tampa Bay that's a valid point.

But it's not an excuse.
I haven't looked at the numbers  
RB^2 : 5/22/2015 4:07 pm : link
but it's possible Nash is a guy who feasts on crappy competition but is more pedestrian against higher quality teams in the regular season. If that's the case, it would explain his diminished playoff performance.
rb  
MetsAreBack : 5/22/2015 4:50 pm : link
like pretty much every player in the NHL during the regular season - his numbers are better against bad teams than good ones

Hanks are too

but he has 7 playoff goals in 55 games (lost count). that's not pedestrian - that's awful

this year Ryan mcdonaugh and Jesper fast have more goals than him.
I suspect Nash is a Giants' fan, read this thread, and then went  
baadbill : 5/23/2015 12:09 am : link
out and played game 4. So thank you.
RE: I suspect Nash is a Giants' fan, read this thread, and then went  
Joey from GlenCove : 5/23/2015 1:08 am : link
In comment 12298615 baadbill said:
Quote:
out and played game 4. So thank you.


Lolololol
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