NFT: Prosecutor: 6 Officers Indicted in Death of Freddie Gray

Now all the assholes who were talking shit about Mosby being incompetent or having conflicts of interests can STFU.

when I was a kid, you screwed up....you caught a beating.

You ran away, and the ground rules were, the cop was obligated to yell "Halt" you didn't you could get shot.

We keep on dumbing down the rules and it's not enough. In all these cases I don't find behavior on the cops part that wasn't the norm years ago and in fact is kinder and gentler.

This isn't about the cops anymore, this is about a people who are always down finding reasons for that - other than their own contributions.

who had the over on two posts before we had a stupid comment?

Of the jury. I remember when the cops were found innocent of any wrongdoing in the Rodney King case.

thread is a train wreck for more than one very bad post.

For the trial and the evidence.

.

They may be quite for a while, but, I'm, not convinced she's making the right decisions. I obviously don't have access to all the facts but the case seems way overcharged.

not quite

but second degree murder seems harsh.

In any event as far as the GJ goes, six ham sandwiches.

an interesting look at the (hidden) reaction of Baltimore police to the recent troubles there.

What do you think the indictments will do about this trend?

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’”

This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated.

Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

Connecticut AND New York City!

I actually won the over under and I had after three comments......

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., who drove the van that transported Gray, is still accused of second-degree depraved-heart murder, and several officers face charges of manslaughter.

But Lt. Brian Rice, and Officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller, who were involved in the initial stop of Gray, are no longer accused of false imprisonment. That charge had struck many lawyers as unusual; police said it could leave officers worried that an error of judgment might lead to criminal charges.

What's not clear is why that charge has disappeared. Kurt Nachtman, a former prosecutor in Baltimore, said it was likely the grand jurors did not find grounds to support it.

"You would think if the prosecution handpicked the charges they'd be the same across the board," he said.

But Page Croyder, another former prosecutor, said it was possible that Mosby's office decided the false imprisonment charge was a mistake and did not offer it to the grand jury as an option.

Another change: All the officers now face a charge of reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of five years in prison.

Croyder said adding that count — probably a decision made by prosecutors, rather than the grand jurors — gives prosecutors a fallback charge at trial if they struggle to convince a jury of the weightier offenses.

She called reckless endangerment, which means a defendant did something to put someone seriously at risk, a "kitchen sink" charge.

"This is clearly a shift in strategy by the prosecutor's office," Croyder said. "Adding a charge of reckless endangerment tells me that there are issues about proving the more serious charges."

Read more ... - ( New Window )

In comment 12297336 WideRight said:

Quote:

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’” This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated. Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

Did you read what he actually said, or just the translation the "activist" provided?

In comment 12297336 WideRight said:

Quote:

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’” This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated. Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

Also, tell me more about your vast experience in law enforcement. You seem to have it all figured out...It's so straight forward right? No tough quick decisions to make...they're already made for you. Lol

In comment 12297336 WideRight said:

Quote:

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’” This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated. Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

I can understand their concern. Look at Officer Wilson in Ferguson who got run out of town mostly due to a fine young citizen reporting hands up. Or the witness in the recent NYC shooting by a cop to protect his Pardnee where one witness stated the guy was in handcuffs when shot.

In comment 12297336 WideRight said:

Quote:

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’” This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated. Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

I can understand their concern. Look at Officer Wilson in Ferguson who got run out of town mostly due to a fine young citizen reporting hands up. Or the witness in the recent NYC shooting by a cop to protect his Pardnee where one witness stated the guy was in handcuffs when shot.

In comment 12297336 WideRight said:

Quote:

“What Batts is worried about is that people are more aware and more willing to hold police accountable in the Western District,” said Deray McKesson. “It’s a scary day in America when a chief of police says ‘People are watching us and we can’t do our jobs.’” This is the reason I have no sympathy for public officials. When they say stupid stuff like this - implying they can only do their jobs if people aren't watching - is a level of idiocy that should not be tolerated. Their job is very straitforward: enforce the law and serve the community according to well-established protocols. Protocols that give them the right to kill people in certain circumstances. So if they can't tolerate accountability and oversight it is admitting that something is very wrong, and its not the oversight and accountability.

As opposed to cherry picking exerpts of the article, why not link the whole thing? When seen in context, one might draw different conclusions. Certainly 2 officers surrounded by 30-50 people will have to call for backup, which clearly affects policing in Baltimore.



Link - ( New Window )

You read it. And you accept that crowds putting camceras on cops is why arrests are down 50%. OK, sure. "30-50 people" surrounding the officers is called cherry-picking.

Straightforward means protocols for professionalism are more explicit than almost anyother. Making good decisions is what they should be paid (or fired) for. Similar to pilots, who also must make life or death decisions. They have recorders that track their every action and are OK with it.

In comment 12297352 sphinx said:

Quote:

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., who drove the van that transported Gray, is still accused of second-degree depraved-heart murder, and several officers face charges of manslaughter. But Lt. Brian Rice, and Officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller, who were involved in the initial stop of Gray, are no longer accused of false imprisonment. That charge had struck many lawyers as unusual; police said it could leave officers worried that an error of judgment might lead to criminal charges. What's not clear is why that charge has disappeared. Kurt Nachtman, a former prosecutor in Baltimore, said it was likely the grand jurors did not find grounds to support it. "You would think if the prosecution handpicked the charges they'd be the same across the board," he said. But Page Croyder, another former prosecutor, said it was possible that Mosby's office decided the false imprisonment charge was a mistake and did not offer it to the grand jury as an option. Another change: All the officers now face a charge of reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Croyder said adding that count — probably a decision made by prosecutors, rather than the grand jurors — gives prosecutors a fallback charge at trial if they struggle to convince a jury of the weightier offenses. She called reckless endangerment, which means a defendant did something to put someone seriously at risk, a "kitchen sink" charge. "This is clearly a shift in strategy by the prosecutor's office," Croyder said. "Adding a charge of reckless endangerment tells me that there are issues about proving the more serious charges." Read more ... - ( New Window )

False imprisonment Is no longer in the the charges but illegal arrest is still there. Not sure that I understand the difference. What we were originally told was that the knife he was carrying was legal. Since then I have heard that there has been debate about whether that specific knife actually was legal. Seems to me that it would be unfair to charge a cop for a crime if the law was unclear or he made a mistake in good faith.

Maryland's law states, "A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person." A dangerous weapon is defined as "a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku." A switchblade is defined as a "blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife."

Baltimore's ordinance which also prohibits switchblades is stricter. It defines a switchblade as "any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade."

While it is pretty hard to identify a difference between these laws, knife experts claim that a knife with a spring that helps it open after the user manually opens the knife is different from a switchblade that opens automatically with the press of a button. So a knife that may be illegal under Baltimore's ordinance would not necessarily be illegal under Maryland's law.

State Preemption

To avoid the confusion of different knife laws in different cities or city laws being stricter than state laws, some states have knife preemption laws. This means that only the state is allowed to pass laws regulating knives. Local governments cannot pass knife laws that are stricter than the state's laws.

Currently, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Kansas, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Utah all have statewide knife preemption laws. A similar law has been proposed in Texas, but has yet to be approved.

Read more ... - ( New Window )

or significant other murdered will tell you, to some extent, it remains an open wound for the living survivors.

meant for DC homicide thread